[00:00] <mdke> comes from the CC memberhsip I think
[00:00] <mdke> Matthew East  → Ubuntu Community Council  → Kubuntu Members  → Kubuntu Bugs  → Kubuntu Users
[00:01] <mdke> slightly odd structure, but still
[00:04] <dsas_> mdke: my ubuntu membership has recently lapsed. Is there a process to follow to get it renewed?
[00:05] <mdke> dsas_: it's autorenewable, but I think if it lapses, perhaps you lose that opportunity
[00:05] <mdke> I'll just readd you
[00:06] <dsas_> mdke: I kept putting off renewing myself and now I can't as I'm not a member.
[00:06] <dsas_> mdke: thanks
[00:06] <mdke> done
[01:02] <saketh> hi
[01:02] <saketh> does anyone know how I can find out who my mentor is?
[01:03] <saketh> hello?
[01:03] <philip_> mentor for what?
[01:05] <saketh> for the doc mentor program...
[01:05] <saketh> i dont have an account
[01:05] <saketh> and i kinda wanna upload something
[01:05] <saketh> to the launchpad repos
[01:05] <philip_> sorry, i don't know how that works
[01:06] <saketh> thanx anway
[01:06] <saketh> also,
[01:06] <saketh> where can i go to find a good tutorial on docbook?
[01:07] <nhandler> saketh: http://wiki.docbook.org/topic/DocBookTutorials
[01:07] <saketh> thanx
[01:07] <nhandler> As for the mentoring program, it is currently dead. It will be discussed at the meeting this weekend
[01:07] <saketh> so...
[01:07] <saketh> when?
[01:07] <nhandler> If you have a patch that you would like uploaded, attach it to a bug, and paste the URL here
[01:07] <nhandler> saketh: #ubuntu-meeting on Saturday
[01:07] <saketh> thank you
[01:07] <saketh> ok...
[01:07] <saketh> tahnx
[01:07] <nhandler> It is on the fridge: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar
[01:10] <saketh> w8...
[01:10] <saketh> 7pm to 8pm UTC?
[01:11] <saketh> hello?
[01:14] <nhandler> That is correct saketh
[01:14] <nhandler> And please be patient. Just because someone does not respond to you right away does not mean that they are ignoring you
[01:14] <saketh> ok sorry
[01:16] <philip_> irc is an idle friendly form of communication... we should assume people get up and do other things at any time
[01:16] <saketh> mhm
[01:17] <nhandler> (or are attempting to participate in too many IRC channels while using a horrible irc client that does not let him easily see when a channel has a new message)
[01:18] <saketh> mhm
[01:18] <philip_> :)
[01:18] <saketh> i probably can stay untilt he meeting is over but i m not sure...
[01:19] <saketh> How do u change the text u r typing in and all that other cool stuff?
[01:19] <philip_> well, i'd say most people don't change fonts or use colors
[01:20] <philip_> i assume you are talking via your irc client?
[01:20] <saketh> mhm
[01:20] <philip_> because there are roughly a zillion irc clients it's difficult to say for sure :)
[01:20] <saketh> ur text turned red when u said that is correct saketh
[01:20] <saketh> and i m using xchat
[01:21] <philip_> often times irc clients will highlight lines in irc when your username is contained within
[01:21] <philip_> like everything, it can  be configured, so play with your software and have it do whatever you want... we don't see it
[01:21] <saketh> mhm
[01:21] <saketh> thanx
[01:22] <philip_> does the string 'mhm' indicate you are thinking? :)
[01:22] <saketh> it just means taht i m listening
[01:22] <saketh> we use taht a lot in chat
[01:23] <saketh> i m kinda new to the docs team, so i m just figuring things out
[01:23] <philip_> for channels like this, people tend to use the least amount of noise as possible
[01:23] <saketh> ok
[01:23] <saketh> like how to use bzr
[01:23] <saketh> and launchpad
[01:23] <saketh> its so complicated
[01:23] <saketh> i like svn better
[01:23] <philip_> that's because you've already learned svn
[01:24] <saketh> i guess...
[01:24] <saketh> ???
[01:24] <saketh> i dont understand waht u r saying
[01:24] <philip_> i understand only half of what i say
[01:24] <saketh> waht is CTCP?
[01:25] <saketh> oops
[01:25] <saketh> taht didnt come from u
[01:25] <philip_> ask google
[01:25] <saketh> srry...
[01:25] <philip_> typically in irc people do not use the return key as punctuation
[01:26] <saketh> hmm?
[01:26] <philip_> you know
[01:26] <philip_> stuff like
[01:26] <philip_> this
[01:26] <saketh> oh
[01:26] <saketh> sorry
[01:26] <philip_> :)
[01:26] <saketh> thats just the wa i caht in im
[01:26] <saketh> anyway...
[01:27] <saketh> how would I upload a fix that i made using bzr to launchpad?
[01:27] <philip_> you would create a patch and send it to the mailing list
[01:27] <saketh> how do i make a patch?
[01:28] <philip_> saketh: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/SystemDocumentation/Submitting
[01:29] <saketh> i already read that
[01:29] <saketh> i didnt understand it
[01:30] <philip_> it has "bzr diff > diffname.tx"
[01:30] <philip_> 'bzr diff' is a command, that will create a diff (a patch)
[01:30] <philip_> like in svn
[01:30] <philip_> the '> diffname.txt' means it sends the output (the diff) to that filename
[01:31] <saketh> ok
[01:31] <saketh> i get it now...
[01:31] <saketh> thanx
[01:32] <philip_> i've never head of "bzr bundle" but it looks interesting
[01:36] <saketh> mhm
[01:36] <saketh> oops
[01:36] <saketh> sorry
[01:36] <saketh> well...
[01:36] <saketh> i gotta go...
[01:36] <saketh> tahnx
[01:36] <saketh> bye!
[01:37] <philip_> :)
[02:25] <Rocket2DMn> my word mdke , he basically cleaned out CategoryDocumentation
[02:25] <Rocket2DMn> mdke, he is not "one of my soldiers" :)
[02:26] <Rocket2DMn> that is to say, he is not from the Beginners Team, I have no idea who he is
[02:40] <nhandler> Rocket2DMn: He says he is part of the NY LoCo. Maybe cprofitt knows him
[02:40] <Rocket2DMn> quite possible nhandler
[02:45] <fooka> nhandler: i just noticed you were talking about me
[02:46] <fooka> nhandler: am the guy who worked on CategoryDocumentation pages
[02:47] <nhandler> fooka: I know (I looked at your LP page). We just didn't know who you were and noticed you did a lot of work on the wiki today
[02:47] <fooka> nhandler: i gotta update that LP page :)
[02:48] <fooka> nhandler: as i mentioned to mdke, just felt a little inspired to chip in after tuesday's openweek sessions
[03:05] <j1mc> fooka: thanks so much for your work. :)
[03:07] <fooka> j1mc: you're welcome
[04:01] <nhandler> What is the policy regarding words like organize/organise with regards to the system documentation? I know there is some wiki page or something that mentions this, but I can't remember which one
[04:30] <j1mc_> nixternal: should be u.s. english, so "organize."
[04:30] <j1mc_> ooops
[04:30] <j1mc_> nhandler: ... ^^
[04:31] <nhandler> j1mc_: Ok, thanks
[07:21] <philip_> nhandler: i don't see the answer here but i've mostly only skimmed: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/StyleGuide
[08:28] <mdke> philip_: it's here, under Spelling - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/StyleGuide/SpellingPunctuationGrammar
[08:29] <philip_> cool, there it is
[08:31] <philip_> today i learned that, and also that -- cannot be used inside <!-- -->
[08:31] <mdke> I didn't know that
[08:31] <mdke> how bizarre
[08:31] <philip_> truly
[08:32] <philip_> i only refer to xml comments here, not sure about elsewhere
[12:04] <nhandler> mdke: Feel like sponsoring http://paste.ubuntu.com/161898/ ?
[13:04] <DJones> I'm not sure if this is the right place to report this, but from https://help.ubuntu.com/community/DesktopEffects the link in the "See Desktop Effects for an official version of this document." line isn't working, I'm getting the message "The requested URL /7.10/desktop-effects/C/ was not found on this server."
[13:05] <jpds> Gutsy is dead. See: https://help.ubuntu.com/9.04/desktop-effects/C/
[13:06] <DJones> jpds: It wasn't actually for me, I was just following the link through from the website, I guess the first page I linked just needs its link updating
[13:06] <jpds> Yep.
[14:07] <ds305> wiki formatting question... Few ubuntu community wiki pages have graphics aligned right with text to the left. Instead there is a graphic with the text below even if the image only fills part of the width.
[14:07] <ds305> Is this the standard.
[14:17]  * ds305 Perhaps because different users have different screen resolutions which would allow viewing it all in one screen?
[14:32] <SiDi> Hello
[14:33] <SiDi> I've got a question that is very likely offtopic : does anyone know good tools to write man pages ? :P
[15:43] <DougieRichardson> SiDi: I thought they were in TeX
[15:45] <SiDi> They're in a weird language actually.
[15:45] <SiDi> I just took one and i'm modifying it at the moment
[17:39] <janisozaur> hi! i've added a wiki page on virtual serial port - https://help.ubuntu.com/community/VirtualSerialPort if you want to check it
[18:03] <Rocket2DMn> janisozaur, that page looks nice
[18:04] <Rocket2DMn> I don't know anything about the content though, but I trust you know what you're doing
[18:04] <Rocket2DMn> If you find other pages on the community docs that are relevant to it, you should make sure to set up some links between the pages
[18:05] <janisozaur> Rocket2DMn, i just had to set up such a connection and after quite a long search and guesstimation i thought i could share with the knowledge gained
[18:06] <Rocket2DMn> cool
[20:01] <mdke> nhandler: sure, that looks fine
[20:03] <mdke> nhandler: no particular bug which that fixes, right?
[20:06] <mdke> Rocket2DMn: I really can't help but to see serious duplication of effort here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning/UbuntuDesktopTopics; the topics are basically identical to our desktop help. I'm really struggling to see why this can't use the same material as us
[20:06] <Rocket2DMn> gimme a sec, finishing a quick forum tutorial
[20:06] <mdke> Rocket2DMn: no immediate rush I was just thinking out loud
[20:10] <Rocket2DMn> ah yeah that mdke
[20:10] <Rocket2DMn> That it is not my baby, that is the brainchild of cprofitt and Vantrax (Matthew Lye)
[20:11] <Rocket2DMn> bodhi.zazen is setting up the Moodle site
[20:12] <Rocket2DMn> mdke, i think the purpose is to get existing teams involved in using new tools as part of their training/education efforts
[20:12] <mdke> Rocket2DMn: I don't follow
[20:12] <Rocket2DMn> they are supposed to be built around live sessions, not static documentation
[20:13] <Rocket2DMn> I don't know much about Moodle, but I guess it is a sort of interactive education tool
[20:13] <mdke> I see the idea of the "classroom", but find it a lot harder to see why material should be any different to onscreen help - the aim of both is to teach users
[20:14] <Rocket2DMn> Yes, I understand.  I don't know all the details, but I think it is supposed to work alongside the current Classroom project and link to existing documentation whenever possible
[20:14] <mdke> what do you mean by "to get existing teams involved in using new tools" in the context of this part of the project - is the idea that the docteam is involved in this?
[20:15] <Rocket2DMn> I'm stepping a bit out of my zone here, but I think here is a good example: Take the OpenWeek sessions
[20:15] <Rocket2DMn> Considering that users are actually paying attention and want to be involved, they can interact with the Moodle site to help learn
[20:15] <Rocket2DMn> rather than just seeing text in the channel or on a web page
[20:17] <mdke> hmm
[20:18] <Rocket2DMn> I'm not involved with the project, you would have to ask vantrax or cprofitt
[20:18] <mdke> I already raised the concern about duplication, tbh, as did Mike Basinger - it was roundly ignored
[20:19] <mdke> we'll see how it develops, maybe I'm reading the idea wrongly, but it's a bit odd that no one has come to talk about how material can be reused, at the absolute least
[20:19] <Rocket2DMn> Understood, I think one problem they are running into is that the material is so spread out
[20:19] <Rocket2DMn> every team kinda does their own thing
[20:22] <mdke> well, help is more or less in one place, that's why we called it help.ubuntu.com
[20:22] <mdke> the idea is for it to be easy for users to find and for them not to have to search different sites
[20:25] <Rocket2DMn> mdke, it's not just for system help, I think it is designed for teams to make use of it their training efforts, like MOTU
[20:26] <Rocket2DMn> I think from where we sit, they would want a doc team member to use Moodle to setup a training session using existing documentation
[20:27] <Rocket2DMn> Then that doc team member (or somebody else) can actually go teach the session using the Moodle program as part of the course
[20:27] <Rocket2DMn> I don't think they are planning to move, copy, or rewrite the actual documentation somewhere that it isnt already
[20:29] <Rocket2DMn> i share your concern though mdke
[20:29] <mdke> Rocket2DMn: I'm still a bit concerned about the idea of a separate website for that, in respect of user help - I'm not bothered about the other sections like MOTU
[20:30] <mdke> the single website thing is very important, IMO
[20:30] <Rocket2DMn> yeah mdke , I don't think they intend to use the site as another place to get help.  I don't think documentation is going to be written there.
[20:30] <mdke> let's see how it develops
[20:30] <mdke> Rocket2DMn: ok, maybe I'm misunderstanding the project then
[20:30] <Rocket2DMn> I don't fully understand it myself
[20:30] <mdke> I think it needs to be explained a bit more clearly on the landing page
[20:31] <Rocket2DMn> I think that their Moodle site will be on an ubuntu.com subdomain though
[20:31] <Rocket2DMn> I think it is destined for http://learning.ubuntu.com/
[20:32] <Rocket2DMn> IIRC, they have been given approval to use this
[20:32] <mdke> that's what the page says
[20:32] <DougieRichardson> have they not been in touch with you?
[20:32] <mdke> no, nor the CC
[20:33] <mdke> except for the initial contact, when I raised my concern
[20:33] <DougieRichardson> that's odd
[20:33] <DougieRichardson> I have some worries too.
[20:33] <Rocket2DMn> I don't think the program is designed to be an attempt at documentation
[20:34] <DougieRichardson> No, Matthew Lye and Charles Profitt have both been in touch with me and it looks to me more like they're going to negate the desktop-training if anything
[20:34] <mdke> I've got that point; but starting a new site will inevitably cause confusion for users about where to go
[20:35] <DougieRichardson> I agree - we should get more involved now and we can get more out of it for contribution - it might work for us too
[20:35] <DougieRichardson> This is the page that Matthew emailed me about earlier, have you seen it: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning
[20:36] <mdke> yes, that's what we were discussing
[20:36] <mdke> there is this post from bodhi - https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-doc/2009-April/012617.html
[20:36] <mdke> but that post is just a collection of positive words, rather than any real explanation of how why they are true
[20:36] <DougieRichardson> Yes I remember it and thought his tone was a bit curt to say the least
[20:37] <mdke> I'd like to see a genuine engagement with the concern about separate sites
[20:37] <mdke> I'll start a conversation, I think
[20:38] <Rocket2DMn> bodhi is a really chill guy
[20:38] <mdke> it's probably a question of more communication needed
[20:38] <DougieRichardson> mdke: Could you elaborate on your concerns I missed the start of this conversation
[20:39] <mdke> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/162435/
[20:39] <mdke> that's the bit before you joined
[20:39] <mdke> ok, I have to go for a bit, forgot about dinner
[20:41] <Rocket2DMn> alright im goin afk too, bbl
[21:04] <Shane_Fagan> DoudieRichardson: What bug would you suggest I start on?
[21:05] <Shane_Fagan> DougieRichardson: What bug would you suggest I start on?
[21:05] <DougieRichardson> Shane_Fagan: two secs dude
[21:07] <DougieRichardson> Shane_Fagan: What areas are you interested in / experienced in and how confident are you?
[21:08] <Shane_Fagan> Well im a student programmer,
[21:09] <Shane_Fagan> So im confident enough but not too experienced
[21:09] <DougieRichardson> Some would see we're always student programmers - while except Soustroup, Torvalds and Deitel ;-)
[21:10] <DougieRichardson> So I guess you're happy with markup languages then?
[21:10] <Shane_Fagan> Ish learned a little but my area is desktop programs
[21:11] <Shane_Fagan> So yep happy enough but havent done much
[21:11] <DougieRichardson> Cool, well if you want to jump in then Bug #362414 is probably a good place to start
[21:11] <ubot4`> Launchpad bug 362414 in ubuntu-docs "A note on having to manually deinterlace interlaced DVDs should be made" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/362414
[21:11] <DougieRichardson> Gotta love ubot4
[21:11] <Shane_Fagan> Yep
[21:12] <DougieRichardson> We need to clarify the issue, I don't know if this issue is actually true or not so we need to confirm it first
[21:12] <DougieRichardson> You can either attempt to confirm on your own setup
[21:13] <DougieRichardson> Or Assign it to yourself and, set it as Incomplete and request confirmation from the submitter
[21:13] <Shane_Fagan> Ill look into it cool
[21:13] <DougieRichardson> Let me know if you need more direction once you know where you're going
[21:13] <DougieRichardson> Your best bet is to email me
[21:14] <DougieRichardson> because I'm up to my eyes in a Java project this weekend
[21:14] <DougieRichardson> dougierichardson@ubuntu.com
[21:44] <Shane_Fagan> DougieRichardson: Bug #362414 is invalid in jaunty
[21:44] <ubot4`> Launchpad bug 362414 in ubuntu-docs "A note on having to manually deinterlace interlaced DVDs should be made" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/362414
[21:45] <Shane_Fagan> Are there any others that would be easy to look into
[21:45] <DougieRichardson> Shane_Fagan: Awsome - that's one down.
[21:45] <DougieRichardson> Shane_Fagan: Try to give the submitter a few platitudes though to encourage them to submit in the future
[21:46] <DougieRichardson> "Thanks for taking the time to report this" and so on
[21:47] <Shane_Fagan> Oh I understand
[21:47] <DougieRichardson> Its like walking a tightrope because we need to be as polite as possible but sometimes people can be very rude
[21:47] <DougieRichardson> How about bug #346892 ?
[21:47] <ubot4`> Launchpad bug 346892 in ubuntu-docs "games/C/games.xml:109 keymapping not input devices" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/346892
[21:48] <Shane_Fagan> DougieRichardson: Sure ill have a look
[21:48] <Meg> hi all :)
[21:48] <Meg> i'd like to contribute translation help, what can i do to get started??
[21:49] <DougieRichardson> Hi Meg
[21:49] <Meg> hi
[21:49] <DougieRichardson> Have you looked over https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/Translation
[21:50] <DougieRichardson> What languages do you speak?
[21:50] <Meg> Spanish (native), English, ... French and Italian (teacher of both these languages)
[21:52] <DougieRichardson> Fantastic, mdke and adiroiban are the best people to speak to
[21:52] <Rocket2DMn> that's quite a resume
[21:52] <DougieRichardson> Did you see adi's talk on OpenWeek?
[21:57] <Rocket2DMn> Ok, so can anybody tell me why when I view the wiki, some stuff is messed up.  For instances, tables don't always show correctly
[21:59] <nhandler> Thanks mdke for sponsoring the patch
[22:01] <DougieRichardson> Rocket2DMn: I hadn't noticed - any examples?
[22:01] <Rocket2DMn> its on the team wiki
[22:01] <Rocket2DMn> for instance: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam
[22:01] <Rocket2DMn> look at the table under IRC - I can't see the separate between the two non-colored rows
[22:02] <Rocket2DMn> separator*
[22:03] <Rocket2DMn> some tables look ok, or some tables will only have a problem in one or two places
[22:03] <Rocket2DMn> look at our meetings page - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Meetings
[22:03] <DougieRichardson> I don't see that or am being blonde
[22:03] <Rocket2DMn> On some of the tables there I don't see column separators
[22:04] <DougieRichardson> Screenshot?
[22:05] <Rocket2DMn> http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/6779/screenshotbeginnersteam.png
[22:06] <DougieRichardson> Not from here - the seperators are there
[22:06] <DougieRichardson> Is this in FF?
[22:06] <Rocket2DMn> yes, FF, do you see what im talkin about in the screenshot?
[22:07] <DougieRichardson> yes
[22:07] <Rocket2DMn> the same thing happens with row separators
[22:08] <DougieRichardson> is noscript doing anything - is see the icon but not sure if that icon means on or off
[22:08] <Rocket2DMn> the problem existed before i started using noscropt
[22:08] <DougieRichardson> what about adblock?
[22:08] <DougieRichardson> Ignore that
[22:08] <DougieRichardson> I'm using abp, duh
[22:11] <KelvinGardiner> Hi, where can I find the IRC logs of the last doc team meeting?
[22:11] <DougieRichardson> i don't even remember the last one we had!
[22:11] <mdke> KelvinGardiner: do you mean the one focused on the installation guide?
[22:13] <KelvinGardiner> No, the last general meeting, I was going to have a look at them before the meeting tomorrow.
[22:14] <DougieRichardson> Rocket2DMn: What's your browser identifying as?
[22:14] <nhandler> KelvinGardiner: If you have the date of the meeting, you could look at irclogs.ubuntu.com
[22:16] <KelvinGardiner> nhandler: I don't. I had a quick look at the logs and viewed the ones with a reasonable file size, but couldn't find it. It's not particularly important.
[22:17] <mdke> it's been a couple of years at least, I guess
[22:19] <mdke> July 2007, looks like
[22:19] <Rocket2DMn> DougieRichardson, it should be identifying as firefox
[22:20] <DougieRichardson> Rocket2DMn: Just wondered if it was a CSS issue
[22:20] <Rocket2DMn> User Agent is Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.9.0.10) Gecko/2009042523 Ubuntu/9.04 (jaunty) Firefox/3.0.10
[22:21] <DougieRichardson> Rocket2DMn: Me to, next avenue...
[22:22] <DougieRichardson> Rocket2DMn: Stage 2 - have  you tried doing a firefox -P and using a clean profile to check if its an extension or setting?
[22:23] <Rocket2DMn> what does -P do?
[22:23] <DougieRichardson> has a nice dialog about profiles
[22:24] <DougieRichardson> sorry that was garbage - I'm tired and stupid , it starts without a profile loaded
[22:25] <Rocket2DMn> works ok with a new profile, as it should
[22:25] <Rocket2DMn> im not gonna go build up an entirely new profile though
[22:25] <DougieRichardson> OK, shall we try the halving method?
[22:25] <DougieRichardson> Disable half your extensions
[22:26] <DougieRichardson> see if its there
[22:26] <DougieRichardson> if not you know its in the off half and keep splitting till we find the culprit
[22:26] <Rocket2DMn> alright hold on for a min
[22:27] <Rocket2DMn> is there a way to just disable all
[22:27] <Rocket2DMn> then at leats we woudl know its an extension
[22:28] <DougieRichardson> well the -P option did that so it's a fair stab
[22:28] <Rocket2DMn> ok well i turned them all off and the problem ois still there
[22:29] <Rocket2DMn> brb
[22:30] <DougieRichardson> what about if you're logged out of he wiki?
[22:30] <Rocket2DMn> i tried removing the LP and wiki cookies
[22:30] <Rocket2DMn> i gotta take a phone call right now though, ill bbiab
[22:30] <Rocket2DMn> thanks for your help
[22:30] <DougieRichardson> cool
[22:31] <DougieRichardson> no worries mate
[22:39] <Rocket2DMn> ok , back
[22:44] <DougieRichardson> hi
[22:51] <nhandler> In the "Adding a software repository" section, why do we use "deb http://ftp.debian.org etch main" as the example?
[22:51] <mdke> I'm not aware of a special reason
[22:51] <DougieRichardson> We should probably change that
[22:52] <nhandler> Maybe we could update it to give an example of adding a PPA
[22:52] <mdke> perhaps we should use the partner repository as an example
[22:52]  * nhandler thinks a PPA would be more useful
[22:53] <mdke> go on
[22:53] <DougieRichardson> Actually, I think PPA is a good idea too
[22:53] <nhandler> Do we have any other documentation that discusses the PPAs?
[22:53] <DougieRichardson> Not in the system docs
[22:53] <mdke> they aren't really intended for users though
[22:53] <DougieRichardson> But given the number of Xorg drivers
[22:53] <mdke> whereas the partner repository i
[22:53] <mdke> +s
[22:53] <DougieRichardson> that are in ppa it might be an idea
[22:54] <nhandler> mdke: I would have to disagree. Some PPAs are very stable
[22:54] <mdke> nhandler: but they might not be - they don't have any level of guaranteed quality control
[22:54] <DougieRichardson> They're also being mentioned more often on the forums too
[22:54] <mdke> as with the Ubuntu/Canonical archive
[22:54] <nhandler> mdke: That is why we would not link to any specific PPA. It would be up to the user to decide which one to add
[22:54] <DougieRichardson> mdke: we can warn people about the risks
[22:55] <mdke> yes, we could do
[22:55] <nhandler> It would also be a good place to explain how to import the PPA keys to be more secure
[22:55] <mdke> I was just thinking that the partner repository would be a good example because you don't need such a warning, and because it's intended for users
[22:56] <DougieRichardson> OK, then should we expand on PPA on the Wiki and link to it?
[22:56] <nhandler> DougieRichardson: Launchpad has a decent wiki page explaining the PPAs as well
[22:56] <mdke> I'm not saying that we should not document PPAs, maybe we could do
[22:56] <nhandler> What about a separate doc page about the PPAs?
[22:57] <DougieRichardson> If the LP page is good then we can just link to that?
[22:57] <nhandler> For the wiki, that would work DougieRichardson
[22:57] <DougieRichardson> For the system too - PPA is going to need web access
[22:58] <nhandler> DougieRichardson: Using a PPA needs web access, adding it does not
[22:58] <nhandler> But we could add a link at the end of the PPA section in the system docs (if we create one)
[22:59] <DougieRichardson> nhandler: granted but that's kinda splitting hairs as it wont do anything
[22:59] <DougieRichardson> I don;t see a problem with expanding the system docs
[22:59] <nhandler> Let me draft a PPA section. We can decide where to put it later
[23:00] <DougieRichardson> OK
[23:00] <mdke> I don't have a feel for how many ppas exist that are suitable for public consumption (do we even document -proposed?) but if there are a few out there, then we could add a section
[23:00] <DougieRichardson> Anyone dealing with intel xorg servers is likely to be interested in thsi
[23:01] <nhandler> mdke: One example of a relatively stable PPA is the kubuntu-experimental one that we were using to provide newer kubuntu packages to intrepid users
[23:05] <mdke> nhandler: ok, I don't have a fundamental problem with it; I just think that if something is suitable for broad user consumption, it's likely to be in the main repository
[23:05] <mdke> I can't see a downside of adding a section though, properly explained
[23:06] <nhandler> mdke: That depends. Some users use a PPA to distribute stable packages while they are waiting for a sponsor. Or a freeze might prevent them from uploading it
[23:07] <nhandler> It is also an easy way to provide newer versions of packages for users of different versions of Ubuntu (without going through the backport process)
[23:07] <mdke> right, but those processes are there for a reason, they aren't just random hurdles
[23:07] <mdke> anyway, as I say, let's see how it looks, I think it's a good thing if you could draft a section
[23:08]  * nhandler will try to draft something by the end of the weekend
[23:08] <mdke> great
[23:18] <KelvinGardiner> Is there a way to limit the width of a image in the wiki. The keyboard image on this page goes over the edge of the main page area. https://help.ubuntu.com/community/AppleKeyboard I've seen this on a few other pages as well.
[23:22] <Rocket2DMn> KelvinGardiner, i think you just need to make a thumbnail manually
[23:23] <KelvinGardiner> Rocket2DMn: ok thanks.
[23:35] <DougieRichardson> mdke: I have had a chat with bodhi_zazen and doctormo about the learning thing