=== Quintasan is now known as Quintasan|zUo [01:10] * txwikinger has no windows-decorator anymore [02:15] Riddell: when you read this, I'm experiencing latest radeon and radeonhd drivers for a couple of hours... [02:16] Riddell: they seem to fix lots of issues, as both are bugfix releases... for example radeonhd dri support was crashing xorg for me, now works... [02:16] Riddell: maybe we should consider SRU for those, as we have lots of users complaining about kde4 and current ati cards support... [02:16] Riddell: both packages have been uploaded to my ppa to start with [02:17] Tonio_: Talk to bryce about it and what's in his X PPA. [02:17] ScottK: kk, will do tomorrow [02:18] ScottK: didn't knew there was a ppa for this [02:18] The problem with video driver SRUs is that better for one almost always has a regression for someone else and we promise SRU is regression free. [02:18] I think he blogged it on p.u.c [02:18] yup I agree [02:20] which package has the oxygen theme? [02:21] Tonio_: and nvidia [02:22] txwikinger: I have no machine to test any nvidia driver :/ [02:22] I have :) [02:22] 180.44 does not work for me [02:22] 185.18 does [02:22] 185.19 [02:22] txwikinger: kde-icons-oxygen [02:23] is that the windows plugin too? [02:23] somehow the oxygen plugin seem to kill kwin [02:25] txwikinger: hu ??? [02:25] yeah.. I was surprised too [02:25] txwikinger: oxygen is an icon theme only... unless you are talking about the kwin theme.... [02:26] then lemme look at the package for that [02:26] well.. I a talking about the setting you can change for the window [02:26] yes the kwin theme [02:26] the window decoration stuff [02:27] txwikinger: the package is kde-window-manager [02:27] txwikinger: but looks like the problem is very unique to you... I can't imagin this to be a reproducible issue... [02:28] well..the other themes seem to work [02:28] only oxygen is not [02:28] and in the settings it does not show the preview saying there is a problem with the plugin [02:29] txwikinger: tried to purge and reinstall the package ? [02:29] yes [02:29] hum.... the one I told you about ? [02:29] kde-window-manager ? [02:29] yes [02:29] weird... I have oxygen working like a charm here.... [02:30] you probably have a corrupted file ar soe points, but how to guess which one ? [02:30] the whole nvidia GeForce 6100 seems to be a very bad regression in jaunty [02:30] I even re-install jaunty from scratch on another partition [02:30] txwikinger: I can't imagin this is an issue due to the graphical drivers [02:30] it was even worse than the upgrade [02:30] txwikinger: yeah, x.org api changes causes most drivers to *suck* atm [02:30] txwikinger: all distros will suffer from this for the next 6 month... [02:30] this isn't ubuntu specific [02:31] do they finally fix x.org ? [02:31] txwikinger: afaik, they have "stabilized" the apis for now, and they expect to provide bugfix releases with performances enhancements [02:31] x.org is THE problem for the desktop, for long, anyway [02:31] well.. I am the opinion x.org needs a major rewrite [02:32] indeed [02:32] those guys do great stuff, but suffer from xfree historical, which is probably a nightmare to deal with... [02:32] sure [02:32] probably restarting another xserver 4 years ago would have been better on the long term.... [02:32] true [02:32] but since everyone wanted to get rid of xfree shortly, there was no other option [02:32] I was complaining about xserver for more than 4 years ;) [02:33] txwikinger: nobody figured out why apple took everything from a bsd linux except from the X server :) [02:33] and they recoded their own from scratch.... there is certainly a reason for this ! [02:33] yep... xserver does not even have proper memory management [02:33] and no compression either [02:34] I really hope in the future, X.org will really becoe stable, without those crappy regressions, and especially be able to deal with what windows does correctly for 10 years now... [02:34] it is a big waste of space causing lots of swapping issues [02:34] dual screen and beamers detection still is completly random with X.org... [02:34] well.. a rewrite from scratch would not be bad [02:35] drivers should be in kernel land or years now... X.org is only able to detect the driver to use for... one year ? windows does it for 15 years [02:35] well if they did that 4 years ago, we would probably have something more stable now... [02:35] yes [02:36] but well... I still have hope for the future, although I really consider X.org the major issue for anyone that wants linux on the desktop [02:36] Mark said something about major work on xorg for karmic [02:36] one day or another, he'll have a problem with X, for sure [02:36] Is that the same you are talking about? [02:36] txwikinger: xorg is upstream work, nothing Ubuntu is going to do major work on. [02:36] txwikinger: not sure... I don't know about mark's plans... [02:37] txwikinger: and I'm generally the kind of person that believe things when he sees them [02:37] well. if upstream nothing is happening and ubuntu is supposed to be the desktop linux [02:37] there is no choice but to take ownership at some point [02:37] txwikinger: so before anything concrete's announced, I don't mind whatever, mark, or any other person in fact, says... [02:38] I agree.. I just wondered what he meant [02:38] papa^W Tonio_ !! [02:38] but yeah, if each distro had at least one full time X.org dev paid for that, then it would be better [02:38] It is difficult to plan your professional future on something that has no pan [02:38] hey imbrandon :) [02:38] plan [02:38] hi imbrandon [02:38] imbrandon: don't call me like this, I'm not with my girlfriend anymore ! [02:38] ouch [02:39] imbrandon: she cheated on me for 8 month and announced me she left me 3 month before we get married... [02:39] imbrandon: that was rude for sure ! [02:39] i'm sorry to hear that [02:39] imbrandon: it was one year ago, that's old story now [02:40] imbrandon: you couldn't new... that's the reason I left ubuntu for about month, before coming back [02:40] :) [02:40] s/new/now/ [02:40] imbrandon: but yeah, I went through a kind of depression at the time... [02:41] imbrandon: what about you, old friend ? :) [02:41] as did i with my divorce, but alas, we're both back :) [02:41] imbrandon: hehe [02:41] imbrandon: I have not any contact with my ex now [02:41] not much, just catching back up on old habbits [02:41] cheating on me for 8 month was really unacceptable... [02:41] both being back i mean you and me, not me and her :) [02:41] lol [02:42] especially when doing this and preparing the weddig in the meantime.... [02:42] ahhhhhhhhhh !!!!!! sorry I got it wrong... [02:42] then I'm sorry for you too... [02:43] no worries, mine was ahile back too, next time we're in the same city we'll drink a beer to it. :) [02:43] maybe in november when UDS is in the US/Cali [02:45] imbrandon: sure [02:45] imbrandon: you won't be in barcelona ? [02:45] not this time, i dident have the time to make it [02:46] this round [02:46] just started my own business , still getting it off the ground [02:46] :) [02:47] * txwikinger is trying to do the same [02:48] broke the $25k USD this month though, seems to be doing ok :) [02:50] hehe, that's great [02:51] on my side, I'm leaving my company, so I'm currently searching for a new job... [02:51] but I really don't want to work on my own... [02:51] :) [02:53] Tonio_: staying in france ? ( probably at leaste ) [02:53] imbrandon: I'm loving cheese way too much to leave :) [02:53] hehe [02:54] imbrandon: i'll probably stay in paris for the next 2 years, and will then back to where my friends and family leaves, in nantes [02:54] you could come to the US with "yellow mustard" and "cheese food" [02:54] hahaha [02:54] real mustard yeah, not that horrible american one.... :) [02:54] it has no taste ! [02:54] there is no cheese in US [02:54] txwikinger: bah there is, just it's very different from what we consider to be cheese in france :) [02:54] txwikinger: yea we had this talk before ( in person too ) , thus the joke :P heheh [02:55] txwikinger: it wouldn't be possible to produce this in the US due to hygiena purpose I guess [02:55] well.. they make it from milk.. but I would not call it cheese ;) [02:55] txwikinger: better not know how french cheese are made sometimes :) haha [02:56] yeah... French cheese you have to eat fast... otherwise you need to hunt it [02:56] lol [02:56] txwikinger: but cheese is that way : the more it smells, the better it tastes ! [02:57] yo [02:57] diary products are far too expensive here in North America anyway [02:57] No EU subsidies [02:57] I got one once, my cooler remembered me of it for at least 3 weeks [02:57] this was one trully exceptionnal :) [02:58] hahaha [02:58] and mustard goes the same way [02:58] I remember in the US, when we went to a restaurant, the guy ordered some "Dijon mustard" especially for me [02:59] that was very smart I must say [02:59] Well.. you get Dijon mustard here [02:59] but the taste was like... real one with 40% water in it... not strong enough [02:59] txwikinger: yeah but the taste is really different [02:59] txwikinger: real dijon mustard is really, really strong [02:59] Well.. I don't use a lot of mustard [03:00] that was me silly, at google after the day one day we went to town [03:00] I usually cook with lots of spices anyway [03:00] with lesley [03:00] txwikinger: sometimes, it can get me to cry, when I put too much of it [03:00] Tonio_: Ever tried Dortmund Löwensenf? [03:00] imbrandon: was it you ? hum I must say I don't remember who that was :) [03:00] imbrandon: I said it was really smart !!! :) [03:00] heh yea it was me [03:00] txwikinger: nope, what's this ? [03:00] i think i even have pictures at that dinner [03:01] somewhere [03:01] german mustard ? [03:01] it is the hottest mustard you can get in Germany [03:01] I mean original German mustard [03:01] However, mustard does not affect me [03:01] I lived to long in Texas [03:01] I just say jalopeños [03:02] this is something I don't understand... american's love food with lots of spices in it, but whatever comes from "european culture" doesn't have any taste... [03:02] that's true for mustard, cheese, coffee... [03:02] I don't understanf that [03:02] Well.. most american food is very blend [03:02] only when you have other cultural influences you get spicy food [03:02] appart from that, food ain't that bad in the US, especially in california... I like tex-mex food [03:03] I rarely eat prepared food [03:03] I cook everything myself [03:03] txwikinger: same as I do :) [03:03] That way it has some taste ;) [03:03] imbrandon: I promiss to come with french mustard next time we meet !!! [03:03] imbrandon: but I don't know if french cheese is easy to bring in the US... [03:04] probably not [03:04] especially since I don't want my clothes to smell the all week.... [03:04] :) [03:04] especially if it is not pasteurised [03:04] txwikinger: bah real cheeses are pasteurised !! [03:04] Not in France :p [03:05] txwikinger: yeah, that's an exception I know... and it's pretty rude with european laws to keep this that way.... [03:05] heh [03:05] deal [03:06] I think what chirac wanted to do what to get french cheese part of the UNESCO patrimony (unsure if the word is the good one) [03:06] so that it gets protected.... [03:07] Well.. pasteurisation of mil is actually not without problem [03:07] You have a lot more lactose intolerances by people due to pasteurisation [03:07] txwikinger: non pasteurisation you mean ? [03:07] txwikinger: oh yeah, that's true [03:08] txwikinger: well in france we're probably protected against this I guess [03:08] the bacteria that usually break down the lactose are killed by the procedure [03:08] but for people that never had any non pasteurised milk, that makes sense [03:09] Anyway goats milk is a lot better than cows milk anyway [03:09] goats ? what is it ? [03:09] Unfortunately it is far more difficult here to get goats milk than anywhere else I lived before [03:10] ah ! got it [03:10] txwikinger: quite common in france, in fact, but as for cheese, I prefer cow milk [03:10] but yeah it's said to be better on an healthy purpose... [03:10] well.. there is also good goats cheese [03:11] imbrandon: I'd like to get you some "puant de lille" one of my prefered cheese [03:11] But more in Spain than in France [03:11] the name litteraly means "smelling of lille" :) [03:11] for those guys to call it like this, I guess you can imagin how smelling it is ! [03:11] Isn't Lille a pretty industrial town? I'm not sure I like the idea. [03:11] txwikinger: yep [03:12] ScottK: industrial ? not espacially [03:12] OK, I must be thinking of somewhere else. [03:12] ScottK: except from what is related to "charbon" but I don't have the translation for this [03:12] ScottK: it also is the region of french who is said to have the strongest cheeses [03:13] * txwikinger drove through Lille a lot about 6 years ago [03:13] ahh [03:13] Tonio_: Google says charbon = coal, which I believe fits. [03:13] oki, so there it is [03:13] My high school French vaguely tells me that's right. [03:14] txwikinger: already went in france ? [03:14] Tonio_: Yep [03:14] I used to be a lot in France [03:14] ScottK: so yes, that's kind of industrial :) [03:14] txwikinger: hum another french speaker then... hehe [03:14] I think Lille used to be very industrial, but not anymore [03:14] txwikinger: and you never tried lille's cheeses ? [03:15] if the answer's not, then you missed something... [03:15] Tonio_: Seulement un peu [03:15] txwikinger: :) [03:15] txwikinger: That would make sense. My recollection was from reading something about World War II history. [03:15] afaik, it was mostly textile industry and coal industry [03:16] wikipedia can tell us more... [03:16] ScottK: yes... most of the areas in Europe that where coal based lost a lot of industry in the 80s [03:16] "At the beginning of the 19th century, Napoleon I's continental blockade against the United Kingdom led to Lille's textile industry developing itself even more fully""At the beginning of the 19th century, Napoleon I's continental blockade against the United Kingdom led to Lille's textile industry developing itself even more fullyAt the beginning of the 19th century, Napoleon I's continental blockade against the United Kingdom led to [03:16] textile industry developing itself even more fully [03:16] oups sorry for the double paste... [03:17] Lille is just at the border to Belgium [03:17] "Throughout the 1960s and 70s, the region was faced with some problems after the decline of the coal, mining and textile industries. From the start of the 1980s, the city began to turn itself more towards the service sector." [03:17] there it is, so the cheese is probably fine, ScottK :) [03:17] And not too far away from Calais [03:17] ;-) [03:19] wow , i have a nack for getting everyone offtopic :) [03:19] was a slow night anyhow [03:19] http://www.aftouch-cuisine.com/en/vieux-lille-99.htm [03:19] imbrandon: tell me if you'd like to try this ! :) [03:19] * imbrandon looks [03:20] "To reserve to the fans of cheeses with honest odor not to say strong" <- understatement, believe me :) [03:21] lol, says it smells like amonia? [03:21] Tonio_: i'll try anything, once , not to say will ever again :) [03:22] imbrandon: :) something like this indeed, but the taste is really different [03:23] imbrandon: it's *really* strong [03:23] imbrandon: but also (imho of course), really good [03:23] imbrandon: just don't plan to kiss your girlfriend for the next 12 hours :) [03:23] if that's acceptable for you then you might try :) [03:24] :) [03:25] I' should consider goind to sleep for now.... [03:25] have a good evening, all ! [03:26] hehe.. it is almost time to get up in France [03:26] 4h30... indeed :/ [03:27] gnight Tonio_ [03:28] imbrandon: good night :) [03:28] imbrandon: http://www.teddingtoncheese.co.uk/acatalog/de433.htm [03:28] Good night Tonio_ [03:28] imbrandon: this one is probably more "honnest" in its description of the vieux-lille :) [03:28] kk [03:29] * Tonio_ beds for real [08:18] a|wen: ping [10:33] whats goign on with koffice that is in the repos i am unable to install it due to kformula dependency and when i install kformula it wants to remove my entire desktop install [11:27] eagles0513875: pong === Quintasan|zUo is now known as Quintasan [11:44] hi [11:45] hullo Quintasan [11:46] hmm I think we could include Plasmaboard widget in karmic [12:00] How do I make pbuilder place *.deb files to somewhere else than /var/cache/pbuilder/$dist/result? [12:01] seriously now [12:01] I need a server for project neon [12:01] Quintasan: --buildresult [12:02] Quintasan: actually, you might want to check out the pbuilder-hooks there is some fine command in there to drop all useful stuff relative to the dsc rather than somewhere in the filetree [12:03] apachelogger: ok, thanks [12:04] btw. I'm going to ask revu admins to delete my files there, most of those are discontinued :/ [12:06] fancy :D [12:07] apachelogger: the PPA's are not good enough? [12:07] argh, I hate this. I should make a patch for updating the *.desktop entry becuase upstream forgot to do so @_@ [12:07] a|wen: the ppas are doing 0.1 % of the work [12:07] I could shake a soyuz reimplementation out of rails hat in about one day :P [12:08] hehe, of course :P [12:08] the problem is doing the stuff before uploading [12:08] apachelogger: so you are looking for a PPA-feeder where you could automate all the stuff [12:08] i.e. fetch the source, tar it up, merge with packaging, upload packaging etc. [12:08] a|wen: aye [12:08] the current server is a) running gentoo, which doesn't help a lot b) getting slower every day [12:10] oh my ... that does sound like the wrong place to be [12:10] well, if only I had an ubuntu chroot I would be pretty happy [12:11] i know that feeling [12:12] * Sput knows that feeling the other way round :) [12:12] i'm doing java compiling/packaging on a solaris/sparc box for my work ... half the tools are gnu-tools and the other half is the sun-tools (and 40% of the man-pages point to the wrong one) :/ [12:13] * apachelogger would not care if the OS was mac as long as he can haz a chroot with $whatever fits the task [12:15] agreed ... though i suppose tha gentoo is using gnu-tools as well (that helps a lot for scripting things) [12:17] not if half the stack upon it breaks every once in a while [12:17] vim was broken for weeks [12:17] I find most hard to work with other distros as soon as it comes to configure anything, even simple tasks like network [12:18] since tools, scripts and config files are quite different [12:18] haha, that is indeed a problem ... at least the solaris-box is stable [12:19] if I have to maintain mom's kubuntu box, I find myself at a loss regularly :) [12:19] Sput: solution: start using kubuntu yourself ;) [12:19] hm [12:19] maintain a kubuntu box? [12:19] you mean unbreak ubuntu breakage? :P [12:20] a|wen: I'm not compatible to *buntu :) [12:20] apachelogger: yeah, that is the essense of it [12:20] * apachelogger is wondering why ubuntu wants to apply an already applied patch to qt-copy [12:21] oh well [12:21] solution: use the python version [12:21] uh [12:21] that can't unapply them :D [12:22] * Sput isn't compatible to any release-based distro, for that matter [12:22] even for a server? [12:23] even for that. [12:23] hm [12:23] I usually use Gentoo Stable for servers [12:23] that rarely if ever breaks [12:23] oh [12:23] ...if you update regularly, that is [12:23] that explains [12:24] unstable (~arch) sometimes has issues, but nothing I couldn't fix, and if it's something serious, it gets fixed very quickly usually [12:25] well, any breakage is too much breakage for my liking [12:25] in the server use case [12:25] but our stabilization policy is quite rigorous, so Gentoo Stable shouldn't have issues :) [12:25] meh, all software sucks anyway :) [12:26] unlike ubuntu stable which breaks with every 10th update :D [12:26] uhm [12:26] that is interesting [12:26] for some reason I feel like dist-upgrading a release-based distro is more of a risk than doing rolling releases [12:26] * a|wen wonders what apachelogger does to his ubuntu systems :P [12:26] apparently apply_patches from qt-copy depends on .svn [12:26] probably because it gave me more issues in the past :) [12:27] a|wen: I don't the updaters do [12:27] Sput: depends on how you dist-upgrade ... with apt-get or aptitude you are mostly boned [12:27] apachelogger: ahh, you mean release -> release updates? [12:27] aye [12:27] those were suddenly phonon starts crashing and stuff :P [12:28] what does phonon do on your server :P [12:28] what I mostly don't like is having to run with old core components for far too long - e.g. the intel drivers have been fixed for me for quite a while already, while jaunty still has that slow and unreliable stack, if I followed things correctly [12:29] and I guess kernel/xorg/intel updates will have to wait for another 6 months now for most kubuntu users [12:30] that "broken" xorg/intel stack should never have allowed to enter ubuntu imo [12:31] then you'd still be at 2.4 [12:31] because intel was mostly b0rked between 2.5 - 2.7 [12:32] and 2.4 had a whole bunch of other issues :) [12:32] a|wen: I was talking stable machine ... besides I like using KDE for server management anyway :P [12:33] hehe, i know that :P [12:33] but yeah, that's my main issue with released-based distros. at some point, distro maintainers need to decide for a given version of core components, and that decision sticks for 9 months then [12:33] a|wen: of course it should have entered ubuntu [12:33] after all 9.04 is not LTS [12:33] so why would anyboy care :P [12:33] from version freeze to release of the next distro [12:34] apachelogger: oh yeah ;) [12:34] they have to lower the quality mid-LTS so that everyone will notice how stable LTS is right away [12:34] and then distro maintainers need to care about old versions, backport fixes etc themselves if upstream doesn't support the release anymore [12:34] messy :) [12:34] with x.org it seems you either have to go with rolling problems or static problems in anyway ... whatever one prefer [12:35] actually that is a quite reasonable product policy canonical could be applying [12:35] but rolling problems are much moar fun! [12:35] indeed they are [12:35] every update you get another surprise [12:35] like KDE :D [12:35] running KDE trunk is fun, really, even though sometimes things break [12:36] Sput: stick to kubuntu development release :P [12:37] rolling updates on stable release are the real fun stuff [12:37] hm [12:38] clearly newt doesn't want to be compiled against $HOME [12:38] but the new qt-copy magic I applied to neon seems to be working [12:38] apachelogger: yeah, but KDE tends to rely on a bunch of stuff that needs to be really new as well [12:39] I know [12:39] KDE makes me suffer at least once a month :P [12:39] like policykit... that was a mess for Gentoo, because we don't require policykit in the distro [12:39] the gnome maintainers had to patch it out of gnome as well [12:39] funs [12:39] we support it now (finally), but don't require it [12:40] the cost of flexibility... [12:40] btw, recently I stumbled upon a discussion whether downstream should maintain it's packaging in KDE's SVN using cpack :D [12:40] that made my day for sure :D [12:40] * Sput really needs to figure out how to create a windows installer for quassel using cpack [12:41] I don't think it's suited for distro packages at all :) [12:41] it isn't [12:41] you can do fairly useful deployments [12:41] but only for you as $upstream dude [12:41] there is no automagic dependency detection and stuff [12:42] + you can't split packages in a way other than binary and -dev [12:42] Sput: anyway, getting a windows installer shouldn't be too difficult, you should just need to set a few cpack vars, include cpack and then run cpack after make finished [12:43] apachelogger: yeah that's what I understood from the miserable docs [12:43] http://www.cmake.org/Wiki/CMake:Packaging_With_CPack#Using_CMake_variables_to_configure_CPack [12:43] you need nsis installed though [12:44] mhm [12:44] well, I might look into that at some point [12:44] right now I can't be bothered to boot that $#@@$ XP VM [12:44] I would do it if I had a windows build environment :D [12:48] ~np [12:49] apachelogger is listening to "Waters of Nazareth" by Justice [Cross]; see http://www.last.fm/user/apachelogger for more [12:52] apachelogger: my windows build environment makes me suicidal [12:53] lol [12:56] a|wen: is there a new package of the network-manager widget [12:57] i noticed some issues with it on the mailing ilst and i was wondering if you would like me to get on it adn do sometesting [12:58] a|wen: ScottK suggested that we do QA tracking in the wiki [12:58] so, setup a couple of testcases and make everyone comment on them [12:58] simplified qa.ubuntu.com in a way [13:09] a|wen: ping [13:22] * eagles0513875 goes to start upstreaming bugs form me winblows desktop [13:35] anything for testing or upstreaming please let me know [13:37] * apachelogger is wondering whatever happened to smarter [13:38] he was in here last night a bit then left didnt say anything i just saw him leave irc [13:39] ~seen smarter [13:39] smarter was last seen 14 hours, 27 minutes and 46 seconds ago, quitting IRC (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) [13:39]