[00:21] <YokoZar1> Anyone else notice that the word "jackalope" isn't in our dictionary?  (Then again, neither is Ubuntu)
[00:35] <bluefoxicy> ~$ serpentine
[00:35] <bluefoxicy> Traceback (most recent call last):
[00:35] <bluefoxicy>   File "/usr/bin/serpentine", line 109, in <module>
[00:35] <bluefoxicy>     assert path.isdir(locations.lib)
[00:35] <bluefoxicy> AssertionError
[00:35] <bluefoxicy> latest version on Jaunty
[00:37] <azeem> bluefoxicy: bug reports go to launchpad AFAIK
[00:38] <bluefoxicy> azeem:  nods, so not a known issue
[01:20]  * calc hopes the house he is going to tour tomorrow isn't too screwed up, 4300 sq ft in a private neighborhood with guardshack, 3 gold courses, yacht club, etc for < $190K
[01:20] <calc> apparently it needs some repair but not sure how much yet
[01:20] <calc> s/gold/golf/
[01:21] <LaserJock> calc: where are you?
[01:21] <calc> LaserJock: texas
[01:21] <LaserJock> you can't get a crack house for that around here :-)
[01:22] <calc> LaserJock: heh yea the house tax value is $350K still cheap compared to most other areas
[01:22] <LaserJock> yeah
[01:22] <calc> i'm hoping to talk them down to ~ $150K or so if its not too damaged for me, its been on the market for over 8 months already
[01:22] <LaserJock> 4300 sq ft is pretty nice
[01:23] <LaserJock> mine is 904 :-)
[01:23] <calc> yea, about 3x the size of my condo
[01:23] <calc> my current place is ~ 1600sqft
[01:23] <calc> and i hate having a shared wall with a neighbor they are always make noise late at night
[01:46] <slangasek> < $190K?  that /almost/ makes it sound like it'd be worth living in Texas :)
[01:46] <ScottK> Have you lived in Texas?
[01:46] <slangasek> no
[01:47] <slangasek> I got my fill just visiting
[01:51] <ScottK> Heh
[01:51] <LaserJock> closest I've been was flying into Dallas/Ft Worth airport once
[01:52]  * ScottK lived there just long enough to experience a hurricane.
[01:53] <LaserJock> yeah, that's something I worry about
[01:53] <LaserJock> I've always lived in places that were fairly free of natural disasters
[01:53] <LaserJock> and mostly free of nasty snakes
[02:05] <directhex> natural disasters will follow you anywhere
[02:05] <directhex> even the centre of the uk has the occasional earthquake
[02:05] <directhex> and snakes can be found on planes
[02:06] <LaserJock> yeah, just depends on what you're used to I guess
[02:07] <LaserJock> I had a professor that would much rather take on a grizzly bear than live in a city
[02:08] <LaserJock> I'm going for an interview for a job in Lexington, MA in a couple weeks and I'm petrified of driving in Boston
[02:09] <ScottK> LaserJock: Fly into Manchester, NH and drive down to Lexington.  It's about the same distance and you can avoid the Boston traffic
[02:09] <LaserJock> ScottK: too late, the Air Force already booked it for me
[02:09] <ScottK> Ah, OK.
[02:16] <directhex> has boston's big dig ended yet?
[02:16] <ScottK> Yes.
[02:16] <ScottK> I think there's still some fixing the parts they messed up going on, but I'm pretty sure the basic project is done.
[02:19] <directhex> well, shows how many years it is since i was in boston then
[02:55] <calc> slangasek: it has a cracked foundation, i will be looking at it tomorrow, and if nothing else major is wrong with i will be having a company give me a quote for repair to see if it is worth buying
[02:56] <calc> apparently repairing foundations can vary a lot in cost depending on how severe it is, anywhere from $2K to $40K+
[02:59]  * ScottK plunked ~15K down for foundation repair a few years ago.
[02:59] <calc> ScottK: ouch
[03:00] <LaserJock> ScottK: did they have to lift the house?
[03:00] <calc> well if i can get a house for less than half price and only pay a few thousand or so to fix it, then its not too bad
[03:00] <ScottK> It was a process where they basically put hydraulic stilts down to bedrock to lift it back up and hold it there.
[03:02] <calc> ScottK: yea
[03:14]  * calc bbl
[03:38] <slangasek> calc: ah yes, cracked foundations are teh suck
[03:39] <slangasek> that explains the markdown ;)
[03:48] <calc> slangasek: apparently its relatively cheap to fix compared to the value of the home so might be worth the hassle, i should know more tomorrow
[03:49]  * slangasek nods
[04:17] <pwnguin> calc: value of the home or value of the land?
[04:17] <pwnguin> calc: either way, at least in the US you can probably find labor to fix it cheap at the moment ;)
[04:26] <calc> pwnguin: well if it costs ~ $10K to fix its probably worth it since the house value is ~ $350K
[04:28] <pwnguin> the house itself?
[04:28] <pwnguin> usually land value is most of a property value
[04:28] <pace_t_zulu> !ot
[04:28] <pace_t_zulu> haha
[04:28] <calc> pwnguin: not in texas :)
[04:28] <pwnguin> man
[04:28] <pace_t_zulu> i am having fun w/ !ot today
[04:29] <pace_t_zulu> pwnguin: knows this
[04:29] <calc> pwnguin: i think the lots are only worth 5-30K well the non-water-front lots anyway
[04:29] <pwnguin> does your appraisal split up home and land?
[04:29] <calc> pwnguin: the house is 4300 sqft (~ 400 sq m)
[04:30] <pwnguin> unfortunately, i have no idea how many sqft the home im in right now is
[04:30] <LaserJock> calc: how much land?
[04:31] <calc> LaserJock: around 10000 sq ft
[04:31] <LaserJock> heh, it's measured in sq ft?
[04:32] <calc> yea
[04:32] <calc> so .22 acre
[04:32] <calc> according to the tax records the land is worth $9600 and the house $341500
[04:33] <LaserJock> ok, ~10K would seem sort of reasonable for Texas
[04:33] <calc> i think some of the lots on waterfront are ~ $300K
[04:33] <calc> but thats pretty crazy for land price in texas, heh
[04:33] <pwnguin> that just doesnt make sense much to me
[04:34] <pwnguin> our house is 150k, and most of that is land
[04:34] <LaserJock> heh, my parents land came out to $440 for .22 acres :-)
[04:35] <pwnguin> going by the appraisal, we can replace the house for $40K
[04:35] <calc> http://tiny.cc/6Nc6p <- example empty lot
[04:35] <calc> thats in the same neighborhood i am looking in
[04:36] <LaserJock> calc: gotta dig your own well out there?
[04:36] <pwnguin> ah, well sure, if you live in the middle of nowhere
[04:37] <pwnguin> for some reason i assumed this was dfw
[04:37] <calc> LaserJock: no, its more or less a resort, 3 golf courses, yacht club, etc
[04:37] <LaserJock> right
[04:37] <LaserJock> sounds real nice
[04:37] <calc> about an hour drive from downtown houston
[04:38] <pwnguin> obviously not a huge problem if you telecommute :)
[04:38] <calc> yea thats good too :)
[04:38] <calc> its a bit longer drive to the airport from where i live now but i wouldn't mind
[04:38] <pwnguin> why is downtown houston the benchmark?
[04:38] <calc> pwnguin: where most people work that live there i imagine
[04:38] <calc> pwnguin: its the nearest place where people can make enough money to live in that neighborhood, heh
[04:39] <pwnguin> maybe before enron fell apart ;)
[04:39] <calc> i think the average house there is ~ $400K when the average income in the county is < $40K/yr (afaik)
[04:40] <calc> so texas is definiely cheaper than california (and other places) but people also generally make less money to go along with it
[04:40] <pwnguin> i like the town names that map picks out. "cut and shoot"
[04:40] <calc> heh
[04:41] <pwnguin> when i was a child we lived in longview
[04:41] <calc> it has a wikipedia entry
[04:41] <calc> ah thats not too far from dallas
[04:42] <pwnguin> i wouldnt know
[04:43] <LaserJock> it is interesting how town names can be so regional
[04:43] <pwnguin> you mean like texarkana?
[04:44] <LaserJock> like in the northwest there are a lot of native american names
[04:44] <LaserJock> I grew up in Medicine Lodge valley, part of Horse Prairie in Beaverhead County
[04:45] <LaserJock> and then like southwest is pretty spanish
[04:45] <pwnguin> can't imagine why
[04:48] <pwnguin> on the other hand, the college town i went to was named "manhattan"
[04:48] <LaserJock> Kansas?
[04:48] <pwnguin> yep
[04:48] <LaserJock> I applied for a job there
[04:48] <slangasek> named after the chowder, perahps
[04:48] <pwnguin> recently?
[04:49] <LaserJock> pwnguin: as in I'm waiting to hear back
[04:49] <pwnguin> they should be in a hiring freeze
[04:49] <pwnguin> hurray for economic recession
[04:49] <LaserJock> it was an already advertised position so I'm guessing it's safe from a freeze, but who knows
[04:50] <pwnguin> you might check out #ksu and #k-slug
[04:50] <pwnguin> on freenode
[04:50] <LaserJock> my uni is looking at cutting %50
[04:50] <pwnguin> woa
[04:50] <pwnguin> and people say KANSAS is the educational cess pool :P
[04:50] <LaserJock> nah, come out to Nevada
[04:51] <LaserJock> we have like one of the lowest per/capita spending
[04:51] <LaserJock> and since everything is based off of gambling when the economy dives there's not much to do about it
[04:51] <calc> most of the south seems to still believe the earth is flat.. etc
[04:51] <pwnguin> our supreme court had to rule that not funding education was unconstitutional
[04:52] <LaserJock> calc: well given what much of the midwest looks like anyway it's understandable ;-)
[04:53] <calc> heh
[04:54] <pwnguin> well, at least manhattan isnt boring
[04:54] <pwnguin> http://www.flickr.com/photos/jimrichardsonphotography/2990897117/
[04:55] <pwnguin> http://www.flickr.com/photos/juddpatterson/492165690/
[04:55] <LaserJock> that's pretty sweet
[04:58] <LaserJock> pwnguin: that fire shot reminds me of one we had a couple years ago: http://www.flickr.com/photos/onnie/148586628/
[04:59] <pwnguin> oh, these are *deliberate*
[04:59] <LaserJock> yeah, we only do those in the fields
[04:59] <LaserJock> and they don't look nearly as cool as that one you had
[05:00] <pwnguin> thats basically what passes for fields
[05:01] <pwnguin> if you felt like parking on I70 you could probably snap a similar picture at the right time of year
[05:14] <calc> hmm in another neighborhood nearby there are lots > $800K that aren't even waterfront, heh
[05:16] <calc> hmm i only thought that was the expensive lots... they go up to at least 1.5M
[05:22] <LaserJock> calc: that's quite a range
[05:24]  * calc going to bed, bbl
[06:50] <speakman> hi folks, where can I found Intel xserver deveopers? I have a big issue with my intel chip on my laptop and maybe I can help identifying what's causing it.
[06:51] <speakman> After upgrading from Intrepid to Jaunty it totally screwed up my graphics, and even removing the xorg.conf did not help.
[07:37] <speakman> reverting back to intel 2.4 driver made it at least usable
[13:54] <doko> cjwatson_, slangasek, Riddell, pitti, infinity: if you are around, please promote tsconf to main, anything needing pango/cairo/gtk is uninstallable ...
[13:59] <DairyKnight> hi, anybody could give me a short guide on how video adapter drivers implement the 'switch to external display' functionality?
[13:59] <james_w> doko: done
[13:59] <DairyKnight> or give me some link to documents?
[14:00] <doko> james_w: thanks, will add your nick for future pestering ... ;)
[14:00] <james_w> damn ;-)
[14:02] <BUGabundo> hi
[14:03] <BUGabundo> what package is repsonsible for /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/50unattended-upgrades ?
[14:03] <BUGabundo> during karmic distupgrade its asks to set Debian instead of Ubuntu karmic
[14:03] <soren> BUGabundo: I'm going to guess unattended-upgrades.
[14:03] <BUGabundo> ok
[14:03] <BUGabundo> filing bug against it
[14:03] <BUGabundo> thanks soren
[14:03] <soren> BUGabundo: What does that file say?
[14:04] <BUGabundo> soren: http://paste.ubuntu.com/163543/
[14:04] <mnemo> BUGabundo: you can find the package responsible for any file by running "dpkg -S /path/to/file.ext"
[14:05] <doko> james_w: libpt-dev libpt-doc libdatrie-dev libdatrie-doc libdatrie1 libdatrie1-bin look obvious as well (renamings)
[14:05] <soren> BUGabundo: Which version of the package are you installign?
[14:05] <BUGabundo> soren: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unattended-upgrades/+bug/371222
[14:05] <BUGabundo> soren:   Installed: 0.39debian1
[14:06] <BUGabundo> humm auto sync mistake?
[14:06] <soren> BUGabundo: That's from Debian.
[14:06] <BUGabundo> should have been touched by a ubuntu dev, then
[14:06] <BUGabundo> soren: I just have karmic sources!
[14:06] <soren> BUGabundo: Oh, right. Yes, that's a mistake.
[14:06] <BUGabundo> $ pastebinit /etc/apt/sources.list
[14:06] <BUGabundo> http://paste.ubuntu.com/163544/
[14:07] <BUGabundo> soren: bug updated with new info too
[14:07] <BUGabundo> now to ping who ever *should* be managing it
[14:08] <Hobbsee> hrm, tha'ts a native package.
[14:08] <Hobbsee> I wonder if that's a bug in the autosyncer
[14:09] <soren> Why would that matter?
[14:11] <Hobbsee> because it looks like it's debian native?
[14:11]  * soren doesn't get it
[14:11] <Hobbsee> i thought our native metapackages were 1ubuntu1 or whatever.
[14:12] <soren> unattended-upgrades isn't a metapackage?
[14:13] <BUGabundo> Hobbsee: they are, when they are touched
[14:13] <BUGabundo> soren: no!
[14:14] <soren> I know.
[14:14] <soren> So I'm wondering why Hobbsee speaks of metapackages.
[14:14] <BUGabundo> ahh
[14:14] <BUGabundo> lol missed that
[14:15] <soren> Who maintains sync-blacklist.txt ?
[14:15] <Hobbsee> was meaning in general.  metapackages was obviously the wrong term.
[14:16] <Hobbsee> soren: archive admins, i expect.
[14:16] <soren> Hobbsee: Sounds reasonable.
[14:16] <Hobbsee> i don't have access
[14:17] <soren> Hobbsee: Ok.
[14:17] <soren> I still don't see how it's a bug in the autosyncer.
[14:19] <mnemo> would be nice if someone fixed "system::admin::software sources" UI in karmic
[14:19] <mnemo> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/software-properties/+bug/371228
[14:20] <BUGabundo> shouldn't I be getting a reboot message?
[14:20] <Hobbsee> soren: it probably isn't.  I'm probably wrong.
[14:21] <soren> mnemo: Bringing up every bug in Karmic on IRC is not very useful. Karmic is less than two weeks old. Breakage is /expected/.
[14:21] <BUGabundo> AFAICT it's a bug on the package it self
[14:21] <BUGabundo> it shouldn't have been autosinc
[14:21] <BUGabundo> oh wait, that would mean it's a bug on the blacklist rules
[14:27] <james_w> it's never been in the sync blacklist as far as I can see
[14:30] <BUGabundo> james_w: but it should, other wise it will always do what it now did for me
[14:30] <james_w> I know
[14:30] <james_w> I've just added it
[14:30] <BUGabundo> or at least tried to, I stopped it from doing , and manually updated the file
[14:31] <BUGabundo> james_w: but now we need someone to maintain it, and change the repo version for karmic
[14:31] <james_w> sure
[14:31] <james_w> it has a maintainer
[14:34] <BUGabundo> who is it james_w?
[14:34] <james_w> MIchael of course :-)
[14:34] <BUGabundo> Maintainer: Michael Vogt <michael.vogt@ubuntu.com>
[14:34] <BUGabundo> spoke too soon
[14:34] <BUGabundo> mvo you lazy dev.... eheh
[14:35] <BUGabundo> so, to rest this, is this a bug on the package it self? or the blacklist? or both
[14:35] <james_w> package
[14:35] <james_w> you don't need to do anything else
[14:36] <james_w> unless you want to propose a patch for the bug
[14:36] <BUGabundo> I don't do code.. sorry
[14:36] <james_w> doko: also done
[14:36] <BUGabundo> but im too good finding bugs
[14:38] <eierdieb> hej anyone here may tell me where you can request new features for ubuntu officially?
[14:39] <mnemo> eierdieb: brainstorm or maybe a wishlist bug if it's a small specific thing
[14:40] <eierdieb> its more like a small specific thing
[14:40] <BUGabundo> eierdieb: what is it?
[14:40] <eierdieb> you know trickle?
[14:41] <BUGabundo> yep
[14:41] <BUGabundo> have few bugs with it
[14:41] <eierdieb> i'd like the system-monitor to have sort of plugin where you can shape traffic like you do with trickle
[14:42] <eierdieb> in a way like with ne nice values
[14:42] <eierdieb> -ne + the
[14:42] <BUGabundo> in real time? how that would be great
[14:43] <BUGabundo> but that's not a wishbug!
[14:43] <BUGabundo> more on brainstorm, unless eierdieb you are doing it yourself
[14:43] <BUGabundo> that package is not done on Ubuntu. so any major changes should be done upstream
[14:44] <eierdieb> what i actually wanted to ask is where i can request such a feature in any of the wide variety of forums or so - is there any place where simple users like me can post such things?
[14:45] <eierdieb> if there is - didnt found as fast as i maybe have liked to - so i went here :D
[14:46] <BUGabundo> eierdieb: upstream
[14:47] <BUGabundo> prob their ML... but not an easy task...
[15:01] <eierdieb> would be great if there is a forum where simple end-users may request features which, after proper discussion, would be directed to the devel-team responsible
[15:01] <LaserJock> eierdieb: I believe that's what brainstorm.ubuntu.com is about
[15:02] <eierdieb> oh
[15:02] <eierdieb> sry
[15:03] <BUGabundo> LaserJock: but that's just "ubuntu"
[15:03] <BUGabundo> what eierdieb want wants is a major change, on an upstream package
[15:03] <BUGabundo> either email them, or open a wish bug with them
[15:04] <LaserJock> BUGabundo: it could start on brainstorm.u.c if the users don't know any better spot
[15:04] <LaserJock> sometimes it's not easily apparent who's responsibility something is
[15:04] <eierdieb> but upstream seems to me like very much to do for an end user like me who simple likes a feature to be implemented
[15:04] <BUGabundo> LaserJock: sure... but I now provided eierdieb extra info on how direct is idea
[15:04] <LaserJock> BUGabundo: great
[15:05] <BUGabundo> eierdieb: the point here, is that its upstream who have to make the change
[15:05] <BUGabundo> and they need to hear about it, from the users
[15:05] <eierdieb> and the place for this is brainstorm
[15:05] <BUGabundo> having it alone on brainstorm won't even let them know *you* wanted it
[15:06] <eierdieb> so what exactly does brainstorm do?
[15:06] <eierdieb> excuse my bad english oO
[15:06] <BUGabundo> eierdieb: its allows users to express and vote on ideas they want to see improved on *Ubuntu*
[15:06] <BUGabundo> eierdieb: your english is good enough
[15:07] <eierdieb> my problem is more like gnome i think
[15:07] <BUGabundo> eierdieb: it is!
[15:07] <LaserJock> BUGabundo: although I would suggest that most of the stuff on brainstorm is really upstream issues
[15:07] <BUGabundo> that change to SM would also impact every other distro that uses it, not just Ubuntu
[15:07] <BUGabundo> LaserJock: agreed. but we don't have an easy wait for doing it
[15:08] <BUGabundo> no Upstream bug, a la LP
[15:08] <BUGabundo> maybe that would be a great idea for Brainstorm: easy way to let Upstream know about Ubuntu User Brainstorm ideas"
[15:08] <LaserJock> BUGabundo: you should file a brainstorm bug about that ;-)
[15:08] <BUGabundo> doing it now
[15:09] <eierdieb> but it would be a really nice move from the community to make such an easy way for the end users
[15:09] <eierdieb> like you said
[15:09] <BUGabundo>  !brainstorm
[15:09]  * BUGabundo is to lazy to type de URL
[15:10] <eierdieb> brainstorm will be handled by me in time =)
[15:11] <BUGabundo> eierdieb: ah?
[15:12] <eierdieb> but i like to bring this idea of an easy-way-to-request-features to the community - since this is community related does anyone know with whome i can talk about this?
[15:13] <BUGabundo> funny. no dupes! can't believe no one ever thought about this
[15:13] <eierdieb> so is there?
[15:15] <eierdieb> maybe i try #ubuntuforums what do you think? (or is there maybe a channel more community related?)
[15:16] <eierdieb> i see there is a brainstorm channel - good2know
[15:16] <BUGabundo> eierdieb: LaserJock: http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/19607/
[15:17] <BUGabundo> eierdieb: *this* is NOT a brainstorm channel
[15:17] <eierdieb> i know ^^
[15:18] <eierdieb> sorry to bother you that much with my problems i just needed somewhere to start :D
[15:18] <eierdieb> but thanks and tanks much more for the brainstorm post
[15:19] <BUGabundo> bddebian: hi
[15:20] <bddebian> Hi BUGabundo
[15:21] <eierdieb> what exactly means the "QA" in ubuntu QA?
[15:22] <BUGabundo>  !QA
[15:23] <BUGabundo> eierdieb: its Quality Assurance!
[15:23] <eierdieb> ah thx
[15:23] <BUGabundo> its a team responsible for how good ubuntu probs get fixed I guess
[15:23]  * BUGabundo when in doubt either ask the bot, or BUGabundo :)
[15:30] <eierdieb> does upstream communicate directly with the devel team of e.g. SM? (or how does it work haven't figured it out exactly)
[15:30] <eierdieb> too bad there is no upstream chat
[15:30] <BUGabundo> eierdieb: ubuntu devs that maintain packages from upstream usually keep very well informed with changes
[15:31] <BUGabundo> or are them selfs coders for those packages!
[15:31] <BUGabundo> eierdieb: there is! many upstreams are on IRC too
[15:31] <BUGabundo> like #kde, #plasma, etc
[15:31] <eierdieb> yeah i meant no #ubuntu-upstream or so
[15:31] <BUGabundo> gnome is on its own irc server irc.gnome.com
[15:31] <BUGabundo> eiei hehe
[15:32] <BUGabundo> and *why* would every upstream just vouche for Ubuntu?
[15:32] <BUGabundo> its not their job to do it... it's the other way around
[15:32] <eierdieb> found none here https://help.ubuntu.com/community/InternetRelayChat
[15:32] <eierdieb> right
[15:32] <BUGabundo> *distros* are responsible to keep track of what changes
[15:33] <BUGabundo> eierdieb: those are only a list of Ubuntu channels
[15:34] <dyfet> eierdieb: upstream sometimes have diveregant goals and interests, depends on the package.  Often, as BUGabundo noted, there are ubuntu packagers who are also active in the upstream project
[15:34] <eierdieb> yep i just expected upstream there too
[15:34] <BUGabundo> either check of a wiki with a list of upstream support/user/devel channels, or start making one your self
[15:34] <BUGabundo> eierdieb: ^^^^^
[15:34] <eierdieb> ^^
[15:34] <BUGabundo> dyfet: that's just wrong and _we_ now it! having deltas is just bad
[15:34] <BUGabundo> ubuntu development should go with upstream goals
[15:35] <BUGabundo> eierdieb: that was meant to point you to my last noticed
[15:35] <eierdieb> kk
[15:37] <eierdieb> so my last question for now - when something "arrives" in upstream there is no larger further redirecting of the problem whatsoever?
[15:37] <dyfet> BUGabundo: I meant broadly, I have (though only on rare occassion) seen this problem of differences between packager and upstream goals...and when I mean broadly, I also mean in respect to other distros, not necissarly this one :)
[15:38] <eierdieb> i mean this is the last station befor people are handling it
[15:39] <eierdieb> have i gotten this right=
[15:39] <BUGabundo> eierdieb: more or less yes
[15:39] <BUGabundo> dyfet: like the FUSA example?
[15:39] <eierdieb> great
[15:40] <eierdieb> thx again am gettin visitors soon so bye (for now^^) and have a good time ;)
[15:41] <LaserJock> BUGabundo: it would be quite low probability to get all of our several thousand upstreams all with the same goals and interests, at some point the distro has to make some choices
[15:42] <BUGabundo> LaserJock: really?
[15:42] <LaserJock> really
[15:42] <BUGabundo> humm I mean... each upstream...
[15:42] <BUGabundo> not that every upstream should think the same way
[15:42] <BUGabundo> not seeing an example dough
[15:42] <BUGabundo> you mean stuff like PA and GNOME ?
[15:43] <LaserJock> even Ubuntu itself doesn't have the same goals and interests within itself
[15:43] <LaserJock> some people are for bleeding edge desktop, some are for rock stable server, some are for mono, some are not, etc.
[15:43] <BUGabundo> yeah agree
[15:44] <LaserJock> we try to define some common goals, enough to move things foward
[15:44] <LaserJock> sometimes upstreams have somewhat different goals
[15:44] <LaserJock> though generally everybody wants to give users the "best"
[15:44] <BUGabundo> eheh
[15:45] <BUGabundo> "what's the *best*?" lol
[15:45] <BUGabundo> again ambiguous
[15:45] <LaserJock> yep
[15:46] <dyfet> LaserJock: just sometimes different people have different opinions as to what is "best" ;)
[15:48] <dyfet> The key is as a community, these differences can be collectively resolved.
[15:48] <BUGabundo> dyfet: unfortunately most of the times its left to a small group of Devs
[15:48]  * BUGabundo see DX team case
[15:52] <aemyr> Is grub2 ready for 9.10 ?
[15:55] <BUGabundo> brb rebboting to Karmic Koala 9.10 pre-alpha
[15:56] <directhex> "pre-alpha" is a bit generous isn't it?
[16:04] <LaserJock> more pre-anything
[16:04] <LaserJock> I built a karmic pbuilder without even hitting a single breakage :(
[16:05] <BUGabundo> back and alive! seems distupgrade went well
[16:06] <BUGabundo> just noting that I still have 9.04 kernel!
[16:06] <BUGabundo> isn't there on for karmic? not even the one in -propose ?
[16:16] <StevenK> BUGabundo: The kernel team are probably waiting until they upload -meta for the 2.6.30 kernel in karmic
[16:17] <BUGabundo> yeah seems so StevenK
[16:17] <BUGabundo> the linux-generic still depends on .11
[16:18] <BUGabundo> manually installing it synaptic while karmic modules still build
[16:28] <allquixotic> Hello! I see jack is still 0.116.1 in Karmic, currently. Debian unstable/experimental still uses this version, too. However, this is a point release behind the latest JACK1 version 0.116.2 with bugfixes that affect me; furthermore, there is JACK2, which is backwards compatible with JACK1-using apps, but *significantly* better performance and several new features. Could we deviate from Debian and pull in JACK2 for Karmic
[16:28] <allquixotic> , if Debian is going to lag behind on this?
[16:29] <allquixotic> I'll note that JACK2 is declared "stable", evidenced by the 1.9.2 release version on the website.
[17:45] <siretart> allquixotic: and JACK2 is basically a rewrite of jack1 with a totally different codebase and therefore a set of bugs
[17:46] <siretart> allquixotic: are you willing to actively maintain jack2 in ubuntu and/or debian?
[17:48] <sebner> siretart: I'm wondering about the --without-dvdcss in the configure call of vlc. if you have libdvdcss installed it works nevertheless. or means with-dvdcss built-in-support?
[17:50] <siretart> sebner: the latter
[17:50] <sebner> siretart: I see. thx
[17:51] <BUGabundo> oh sebner is back! how was the trip?
[17:51] <siretart> sebner: it can use libdvdread, which in turn uses then libdvdcss. or vlc can use libdvdcss directly
[17:51] <siretart> probably windows folks prefer using libdvdcss directly. no idea
[19:14] <MattJ> I'm trying to build a package that tracks a source repository - does anyone have any tips for this, or some scripts which handle the process?
[19:16] <hyperair> MattJ: what repository is that?
[19:16] <MattJ> hyperair: http://prosody.im/source/hg - Mercurial
[19:17] <MattJ> I'm trying to make a prosody-dev package which will always be (to some extent) up to date
[19:17] <BUGabundo> I think what MattJ wants is something like fta bots. I think I remember some autobuild tools on LP
[19:17]  * BUGabundo yeah MattJ I'm everywhere
[19:17] <MattJ> :)
[19:40] <Terces_> I was looking at different backup solutions and found rdiff-backup and duplicity. I really like the rdiff-backup versioning, but need it to be encrypted like duplicity, since many users will be backing up personal files to a company server. Does anyone have any ideas?
[19:40] <Terces_> Also, when mounting private home folders in Jaunty, I believe they are mounted over the encrypted base store in .Private. Is there a way to get access to the encrypted store while the home is mounted (i.e. decrypted)?
[19:42] <flower_> I want to add debian-installer to an ubuntu live-cd I want to make with live-helper, but I got: http://rafb.net/p/vOEWjj75.html
[21:00] <calc> i went to look at the house today... needs a lot of work but i'll have to have some people come out to give me quotes
[21:02] <directhex> this is the $6.99 place the size of buckingham palace?
[21:26] <calc> directhex: yea more or less
[21:26] <calc> directhex: it needs lots of foundation work, i am going to get someone to give me a quote, not sure if it is $10K or $100K worth of work
[21:27] <calc> directhex: then it needs sheetrock, tile repair, and maybe brick/mortar work, etc
[21:27] <calc> if its less than $30K it might be worth my time
[21:27] <calc> depending on how cheap i can get the house for
[21:28] <calc> so my vacation this year may be spent rebuilding a house, heh
[21:29] <calc> it really needs a lot more work than that to make it look 'nice' but i can do that over the years i live there
[21:29] <calc> someone thought that using floor tile on the kitchen countertops was suitable rather than granite (which is normal for this type of house)
[21:30] <calc> considering i have a kid i would probably go with some sort of quartz/etc countertop since granite is too much upkeep, but tile is just ugly, heh
[21:31] <directhex> wood. it would stain with the blood of your enemies!
[21:33] <calc> heh yea
[21:42] <slangasek> upkeep?  I thought granite just sat there, being stone
[21:45] <calc> slangasek: it can get stained if you don't reseal it every few years
[21:45] <slangasek> ok
[21:45] <calc> slangasek: assuming you spill certain types of substances on it like cooking oil (aiui)
[21:45] <calc> and calcium from water can cause white residue buildup but i think that is relatively easy to clean
[21:47] <calc> since granite generally is polished and shiny it shows up more than on other types of countertops
[21:50] <pace_t_zulu> !ot
[21:58]  * calc wishes someone would process his sync requests so he can upload OOo 3.1.0 :\
[21:59] <LaserJock> calc: that's for Karmic?
[22:00] <calc> LaserJock: yea
[22:00] <calc> jaunty is done and shipped ;-)
[22:01] <calc> i'm turning off features to get it to build for testing purposes atm but need the syncs before i upload to karmic