| svenstaro1 | any news about edubuntu? | 13:42 |
|---|---|---|
| highvoltage | not yet | 13:46 |
| ogra | what news would you expect ? | 13:47 |
| highvoltage | ogra: some feedback from canonical on what they expect from the edubuntu project | 13:47 |
| ogra | from where would you expect that to come ? | 13:49 |
| highvoltage | ogra: mdz said that he's following it up | 13:49 |
| ogra | with rich being gone there is nobody for particulary doing educational stuff | 13:49 |
| ogra | ah | 13:49 |
| * ogra didnt know | 13:50 | |
| ogra | where did he say that ? | 13:50 |
| highvoltage | ogra: on a comment of a blog entry of mine | 13:50 |
| ogra | ah | 13:51 |
| highvoltage | ogra: I don't particularly care if there's no one at Canonical devoted to education full-time, but it's a bit unfair that Canonical just chooses to ignore Edubuntu all of a sudden and leave the community that's still left completely in the dark | 13:51 |
| highvoltage | ogra: not too long ago there were 2 full time canonical staff members who were quite big mouthed about all the massive plans that they had for edubuntu, but that they couldn't quite tell us everything yet | 13:52 |
| ogra | well ... | 13:52 |
| highvoltage | ogra: so then each of them quietly dissapeared and that's pretty much that. | 13:52 |
| * ogra didnt have any plans for edubuntu after he was told it had to be turned into the ubuntu edu edition | 13:53 | |
| ogra | and everything after that was richards plans and business | 13:53 |
| highvoltage | Yes. | 13:53 |
| ogra | i thought it was clear that edubuntu isnt driven by canonical anymore | 13:53 |
| highvoltage | that's fine, but if the community picks it up properly, it's completely reasonable of the community to want to be sure that their not stepping on anyones toes or doing something that might go against what Canonical wants | 13:54 |
| highvoltage | we *were* going into a certain direction until RichEd started making drastic changes | 13:54 |
| ogra | well, dont worry about edubuntu here ... | 13:54 |
| ogra | feel free to do what you wasnt with it as a community and dont care about canonical | 13:55 |
| ogra | *want | 13:55 |
| highvoltage | and everyone were told that it was for the greater good and that there's a Big Plan⢠| 13:55 |
| ogra | there probably was | 13:55 |
| ogra | rich just didnt tell us the details :P | 13:55 |
| highvoltage | ogra: ok, I'll copy this to LaserJock so that we can finish the Edubuntu Strategy Document draft and send it to the list | 13:56 |
| ogra | i didnt agree with the changes that happened and just obeyed to the management direction in the hope some community would pick it up | 13:56 |
| ogra | (it being edubuntu) | 13:57 |
| ogra | since it was forseeable to me that we would piss off the community | 13:57 |
| highvoltage | yeah | 13:58 |
| ogra | everything beyond that was richards grand masterplan of which i only know that he was planning to do the confusing naming change that apprently lost us a good bunch of users | 13:58 |
| ogra | there were no further changes that happened afaik | 13:58 |
| highvoltage | I guess one of the first things we'll propose as a change is dropping the "Ubuntu Education Edition" name in favour of a more consistent "Edubuntu". | 13:59 |
| ogra | well, drop either but dont keep both | 13:59 |
| ogra | that was my main issue with richs strategy | 14:00 |
| highvoltage | well, thanks for your input on this ogra, it's much appreciated | 14:00 |
| ogra | he always wanted ubuntu to be the bigger edu picture .... | 14:00 |
| ogra | but didnt find a way to transition the community | 14:01 |
| ogra | imho he shold have stopped when he found that things like the #ubuntu-education channel dont get any users ... | 14:01 |
| ogra | and he realized that quite a while ago | 14:01 |
| ogra | that we kept both names and have that massive confusion now is based on that | 14:02 |
| highvoltage | yes | 14:03 |
| ogra | so be sure you dont step on anyones toes if you want to go on with edubuntu and feel free to go what ever direction you like as a community | 14:04 |
| ogra | i cant tell anything about what will happen with the "ubuntu educational edition" plans though | 14:04 |
| ogra | but it surely wont be edubutnu if it persists ... | 14:04 |
| ogra | *edubuntu | 14:04 |
| ogra | highvoltage, did you BCC mdz on the thread ? i dont see him in CC as he asked for | 14:09 |
| highvoltage | ogra: I bcc'd him before he actually made the comment | 14:11 |
| highvoltage | ogra: so I e-mailed him again to make sure that he got the message and whether he wanted me to cc him formally and resend the message | 14:12 |
| highvoltage | ogra: he replied and says that it's fine and that he has it in it's inbox and he'll follow up on thecanonical part | 14:13 |
| highvoltage | *said | 14:13 |
| ogra | right, i just pinged him | 14:14 |
| highvoltage | I don't mind that he's taking long to respond, I know he's busy and I appreciate that he's interested at least. | 14:15 |
| ogra | yeah, he is busy up to his ears | 14:16 |
| highvoltage | it would be nice if you can just let him know what you told us, just so that he knows where things stand | 14:16 |
| highvoltage | (and that he has a chance to object to anything if needs be) | 14:16 |
| alkisg | Can the community use the name "edubuntu" without canonical aproval since it's a registered trademark of canonical? | 14:20 |
| highvoltage | Well, I'm sure Canonical will step in if there's abuse, but I don't think the community as such would abuse the trademark in any way. | 14:23 |
| ogra | as long as you dont add third party apps etc i dont see a problem | 14:23 |
| alkisg | E.g. if the community desides that edubuntu *is* better as a distro and not as an add-on package? (like back in the old days...) No problem there? | 14:24 |
| highvoltage | alkisg: I for one will certainly push for that | 14:24 |
| alkisg | highvoltage: I'll vote for you if you want edubuntu to be a live (and of course hd installable) dvd :) | 14:25 |
| highvoltage | vote for me!? heh, I'm not campaigning for anything :) | 14:26 |
| alkisg | We'll need a leader ;) | 14:26 |
| ogra | become one :) | 14:26 |
| highvoltage | ogra ftw | 14:26 |
| alkisg | I'm a humble teacher/programmer, I'm not good at starting anything... yup, ogra ftw!!! | 14:27 |
| ogra | well, if you would turn edubuntu back into a distro you certainly have to discuss some issues | 14:27 |
| ogra | like diskspace on the download servers | 14:27 |
| ogra | etc | 14:27 |
| ogra | but thats all technical ... i doubt qanyone would actually object an edubuntu thats similar to xubuntu or ubuntu-studio designed as a derivative full distro | 14:28 |
| ogra | though i would wonder what sense it makes to turn back time | 14:28 |
| alkisg | ogra, it *would* make sense for teachers to have ltsp/edu apps preinstalled | 14:28 |
| alkisg | But not these kids icons (theme)... | 14:29 |
| ogra | right, but you wont fit that on one CD | 14:29 |
| alkisg | Yup, it needs to be on a dvd, is there a problem with that? | 14:29 |
| ogra | many users in the poorer parts of the world neither have bandwoth nor technology to use DVDs | 14:29 |
| highvoltage | yes. | 14:29 |
| highvoltage | although, the last time that that was actually discussed was 4 years ago | 14:30 |
| ogra | apart from the fact that you will exclude most of the existing edubuntu users there is none, no :P | 14:30 |
| highvoltage | and optical drives don't last long | 14:30 |
| highvoltage | and most drives for a long time now can read and write dvd's | 14:30 |
| ogra | well, dont forget how much effort testing the images is | 14:30 |
| ogra | even the ubuntu ones dont see massive testing since its such a huge download | 14:30 |
| ogra | beyond that if you actually use a DVD *and* fill it up, you will have to have a long discussion with the IS team about server space and bandwith | 14:31 |
| ogra | a 500MB CD iso is quite different to a potential 2-4G DVD iso | 14:32 |
| highvoltage | indeed, we'll have to have at least a basic testing plan available and enough people who are willing to commit to testing it before edubuntu can become a dvd again | 14:32 |
| alkisg | I guess it'll only need to be maybe 2 Gb, not a full DVD... But for those countries that you say, having all the apps in a dvd and not having to download anything is better than a CD+a lot of downloading | 14:32 |
| alkisg | And having the ability to actually test the live image would bring in a lot of new users/teachers | 14:33 |
| highvoltage | ogra: I'll try to figure out where the best place is to put up this information, because it's useful to the community to know and understand what you're explaining here | 14:33 |
| ogra | alkisg, so who guarantees it will never become a 4G iso if you, highvoltage, and Laser suddenly decide to not be around in edubuntu anymore and someone else just fills up the space | 14:34 |
| alkisg | Who guarranties that xubuntu will be around next year? Are there any guaranties in community driven projects? | 14:35 |
| ogra | no | 14:35 |
| alkisg | I guess if someone related to education is the "leader", he won't allow the dvd to be filled with useless apps... | 14:35 |
| ogra | but xubuntu binding itself to a CD guarantees to the canonical IS staff that it wont just grow to a 4G download | 14:35 |
| ogra | note that in many areas where people used to use edubuntu even power and telephony are issues | 14:36 |
| alkisg | Well, if canonical says "I won't mirror it if it's more than 2 Gb", then that's the limit the community will have to respect! :) | 14:36 |
| ogra | i doubt much of that has changed | 14:36 |
| highvoltage | alkisg: I think the hosting problem is a real issue and something that will have to be addressed somehow | 14:36 |
| ogra | i wouldnt suggest to switch to a DVD | 14:36 |
| ogra | but its indeed up to some leader if the project gets one | 14:37 |
| alkisg | ogra, can a live ltsp image + edu apps fit in a cd? | 14:37 |
| ogra | probably if you cut down the desktop a lot | 14:37 |
| highvoltage | "live ltsp image" | 14:37 |
| highvoltage | as in, a i386.img file on the CD? | 14:37 |
| ogra | note that you are not bound to use gnome | 14:37 |
| highvoltage | I doubt it | 14:37 |
| alkisg | highvoltage: yes, that would really bring a lot of new users... | 14:38 |
| ogra | you could switch to xfce or lxde | 14:38 |
| highvoltage | lxde is a bit too simple imho. xfce has much better usability (at a price, of course) | 14:38 |
| ogra | and save a lot of space by throwing out typical ubuntu desktoip stuff | 14:38 |
| ogra | though i have no idea how much of that would still be ed*ubuntu* then :) | 14:38 |
| highvoltage | it's quite tough, because in one way, edubuntu should *really* attempt to be a turn-key solution | 14:39 |
| ogra | right | 14:39 |
| ogra | on the other hand you have the space constraints | 14:39 |
| highvoltage | on the other hand, it should also be flexible enough so that you could edubuntuise any desktop environment | 14:39 |
| ogra | right | 14:39 |
| highvoltage | there are so many valid reasons to use either of gnome, kde, xfce and lxde (and probably others too) | 14:40 |
| ogra | yep | 14:40 |
| ogra | but for such a CD/DVD you can only pick one | 14:40 |
| highvoltage | indeed, I'm thinking that Xfce makes a good default for something like an edubuntu installation, perhaps there should still be an add-on set for ubuntu + another desktop environment then | 14:41 |
| highvoltage | but then there's more iso's that need to be taken care of | 14:41 |
| highvoltage | no matter how you look at it we're doomed :) | 14:42 |
| ogra | right | 14:42 |
| ogra | beyond that for a live installation of LTSP a *lot* has to be done to integrate it properly into casper | 14:42 |
| ogra | you will need to do a lot of programming and have to know the livecd structure if you want to do it right | 14:43 |
| ogra | (indeed you can always do a hackish solution, but thats would be one thing where i would actually speak up and object) | 14:43 |
| highvoltage | and I guess ubiquity should also be patched so that a user could choose whether they want ltsp or not | 14:43 |
| ogra | that too | 14:44 |
| ogra | but there are lots of other issues you have to solve before patching ubiquity :) | 14:44 |
| highvoltage | I know you're very strict on that, and while I'd rather have something hacky now than have absolutely nothing for ages, I do think that it would be nice if we can "use" you for getting input on the hackiness levels of things | 14:45 |
| alkisg | (erm sorry there's a storm here and I get power losses, I'll have to turn off my modem router... :() | 14:45 |
| ogra | such a CD needs to be foolproof and detect a *lot* of stuff | 14:45 |
| highvoltage | ogra: indeed, and it can be dangerous in terms of handing out dhcp addresses, etc | 14:46 |
| ogra | i.e. how do you make sure if a kid downloads it and puts it into the school computer that the dhcp server doesnt totally trash the whole school network ;) | 14:46 |
| ogra | etc etc | 14:46 |
| alkisg | highvoltage, ogra, no dhcp leases | 14:46 |
| alkisg | A proxydhcp is all that's needed | 14:46 |
| highvoltage | (or assuming an IP address if you want it to be fully automatic) | 14:46 |
| alkisg | So it's a foolproof solution with no real danger | 14:46 |
| ogra | alkisg, fine, come up with a proper way to do that in initramfs and casper then | 14:46 |
| alkisg | ogra, I'll try to do that in the summer and post whatever results I come up with | 14:47 |
| ogra | dont underestimate how much work it takes to do it *properly* | 14:47 |
| highvoltage | either way, a livecd ltsp disc is *highly* unlikely for jaunty | 14:47 |
| alkisg | I don't think the initramfs will need any patching | 14:47 |
| alkisg | I'm not afraid of the proxydhcp stuff, but I don't know anything about cd/dvd integratio :( | 14:48 |
| ogra | i would estimate one experienced fulltime programmer for one full release cycle for even getting the live ltsp part done | 14:48 |
| highvoltage | we have smaller issues that might already be problematic | 14:48 |
| ogra | alkisg, but you know what casper is, right ? | 14:48 |
| ogra | and how our live CDs and live installer work | 14:48 |
| alkisg | I've just heard of some stuff, I haven't gotten to the reading/doing part :( | 14:49 |
| highvoltage | I know how they work, more or less. I can't quite see where the initramfs needs to be patched though. | 14:49 |
| ogra | the live session is completely set up by the initramfs | 14:49 |
| kiyote | Hello! | 14:49 |
| ogra | which means nearly everything you will do has to be a patch to initramfs | 14:49 |
| highvoltage | there's some scripts after the initramfs that does some stuff too | 14:49 |
| ogra | or rather to casper which is the live session part that sits in an initramfs | 14:50 |
| highvoltage | (like adding the ubuntu user, etc) | 14:50 |
| ogra | no, thats casper | 14:50 |
| ogra | *in* initramfs | 14:50 |
| highvoltage | oh yes, sorry you are right | 14:50 |
| ogra | thats what i mean, to implement that properly without losing installability *and* without breaking the environments you run that CD in, a *lot* of planning and speccing has to happen first | 14:51 |
| highvoltage | well, as it sounds to me, just having a plain edubuntu installation disc will involve a lot of planning and careful consideration for jaunty | 14:52 |
| ogra | karmic ;) | 14:52 |
| highvoltage | oops, yes! | 14:52 |
| alkisg | If putting `CheckHostIP no StrictHostKeyChecking no LogLevel ERROR` in ssh_config is acceptable, then I think I can make a script to properly run an ltsp server in a live dvd (and also that dnsmasq can be integrated into the dvd) | 14:53 |
| alkisg | (in the chroot of course) | 14:53 |
| alkisg | But I don't know how to properly integrate it to casper, I can only make the script :( | 14:54 |
| highvoltage | alkisg: well, you coul do that as a 3rd party script for now | 14:54 |
| ogra | i dont think either is acceptable without UDS discussion | 14:56 |
| highvoltage | although imho it seems a bit pointless, considering that you'll need so much RAM, access to ubuntu archives (or an extra image), you might as well just use a hard disk to begin with | 14:56 |
| ogra | (the ssh changes) | 14:56 |
| alkisg | highvoltage: I'll try to do that (= a live dvd) in the summer in any case, but if it could be also used in edubuntu it would be better. | 14:56 |
| ogra | or at least ML discussion with the maintainer | 14:56 |
| alkisg | ogra, I have no idea what UDS/ML discussion are :) | 14:56 |
| ogra | the point in the ubuntu live cd is that it is identical to an installed system | 14:57 |
| highvoltage | not necessarilly | 14:57 |
| highvoltage | ubiquity does remove some packages (like itself and its dependencies, along with language packs you might not want) | 14:58 |
| ogra | if you break that concept it has to be specced and discussed on a mailing list with the maintainer of the package you plan to add nonstandard stuff to or hast to be discussed in a session at a ubuntu developer summit | 14:58 |
| ogra | highvoltage, right, but it doesnt mangle any configs | 14:58 |
| highvoltage | ogra: well I 100% agree with you that that concept should remain as intact for edubuntu as it is in ubuntu | 14:58 |
| ogra | right | 14:58 |
| highvoltage | ogra: anything else would be either too hacky or too complicated | 14:58 |
| ogra | which means the changes have to be done very careful and if possible have to happen upstream | 14:59 |
| highvoltage | but I think we should leave live ltsp cd's for now, since we pretty much know that it's an impossibility for karmic | 14:59 |
| ogra | you can do ltsp CDs as a remix | 14:59 |
| alkisg | Well, my target is to be able to run ltsp with a live medium - if there's any other, more proper way to do it, I'd glady try it... | 15:00 |
| ogra | drop evolution, create a package that pulls the .img from somewhere out of a PPA or from a LP project page | 15:00 |
| highvoltage | alkisg: you could do it with ubuntu installed on a USB flash disk | 15:00 |
| ogra | re-roll the ubuntu CD with that package included | 15:01 |
| highvoltage | I think using a flash disk as a live presentation medium is much more suited than a CD | 15:01 |
| ogra | yes, thats likely true | 15:02 |
| highvoltage | it's also quite easy for a user to set up. (not a casper-like flash disk, but a full installation) | 15:02 |
| ogra | well, if you do it on your own and are not bound to distro quality its very easy to even do live in a hack | 15:02 |
| ogra | look at the opensuse live dvd | 15:03 |
| alkisg | highvoltage: I don't mind if a usb stick is used, but the ssh_config problems are also there | 15:03 |
| highvoltage | I don't think I want to :) | 15:03 |
| alkisg | Unless nfs is used, which is too much of a hack. | 15:03 |
| ogra | i havent tried it but i imagine its similar to a knoppix live terminal server | 15:03 |
| highvoltage | alkisg: imho, I think your particular use-case can be solved with some documentation | 15:03 |
| alkisg | (or ltsp-update-image is called, which is too slow) | 15:03 |
| ogra | alkisg, you have a very slow access time on a CD/DVD | 15:04 |
| highvoltage | alkisg: a "How to set up a live Edubuntu environment on a USB Flash disk with LTSP" guide, something that a typical person with very little ubuntu experience can set up in an hour or so | 15:04 |
| ogra | usb keys wont have that issue | 15:04 |
| ogra | or better, write a tool that creates such an image | 15:04 |
| highvoltage | that would solve the mirror issue | 15:04 |
| alkisg | highvoltage: I don't think inexperienced teachers will be able or even willing to follow that guide. | 15:04 |
| ogra | with two mouseclicks and some form fields to fill ;) | 15:05 |
| alkisg | ogra, that's a viable solution :) | 15:05 |
| * highvoltage needs to make notes of this for UDS | 15:05 | |
| ogra | are you coming ? | 15:05 |
| highvoltage | yep | 15:06 |
| ogra | cool ! | 15:06 |
| * ogra has a conf call now ... | 15:06 | |
| === hfsdo_ is now known as hfsdo | ||
| svenstaro2 | In case you guys are still there, I just read up on the whole conversation that I missed a couple of hours ago and I can probably help out a lot with live stuff. I just managed to created a live medium (DVD/USB) that can play several high quality 3d games off the live medium with acceptable performance. | 20:48 |
| svenstaro2 | I don't think a CD should be the upper limit in case we get oversize. We can always try a 2.6.30 kernel with squashfs+lzma built in and that should get us at least another 100MB space (I just tried). | 20:49 |
| svenstaro2 | I don't think any of the direct technical issues are any issues at all: Many universities offer mirrors for free projects if you just ask them and have something to present. Testing images can be spread using bit torrent. I have a dedicated server that can take care of the rest until we get "bigger" hosting should we ever need it. | 20:51 |
| svenstaro2 | We should not be bound to *buntu as well, we might as well name it something else if certain people have certain problems with Edubuntu suddenly changing their master plan. | 20:52 |
| svenstaro2 | I would suggest we decide some time in the near future what we're *really* going to do or I might just start up something by myself and let people join as they are interested. | 20:54 |
| svenstaro2 | My abstract goals for a education distro would be: Good-Great documentation, teacher HAVE to be able to set everything up themselves AND feel like they are in control because the documentation looks like it could get them help with any problem. There needs to be a dedicated forum, a mailing list and an IRC channel set up for direct help as well. For example, a XChat client that automatically joins | 20:57 |
| svenstaro2 | the IRC channel is a good idea IMO. Next goal: Actually have great value for a school. In Edubuntu, there are merely many applications with the word 'education' all over them put onto the medium without direction or sense. | 20:57 |
| svenstaro2 | Think about class context and try to fill actual *needs*. Also, I think the LTSP part should receive much greater attention than it does now. The LTSP is THE master argument against Windows or for replacing Windows in schools RIGHT NOW because many schools use very old computers that are hardly usable and don't have money to get 20 new computers or so. If we tell them they only have to spend around | 21:00 |
| svenstaro2 | 2000$ to get a proper server and make everything faster, that will be a great way of getting more people to use it and value it. | 21:00 |
| alkisg | svenstaro2: I plan to make an "Ubuntu/LTSP Educational Remix" this summer - a live dvd (or usb stick) with ltsp and some edu apps preinstalled, and of course with the ability to be installed to the hard disk. So my main goal is for easy demonstration/installation. I guess many of us have similar goals here in #edubuntu, so it would be nice if we cooperated... | 21:15 |
| svenstaro2 | That's the thing, I don't think "Educational Remix" would suffice to attract user nor to build a good educational framework around that. "Remix" singals that you *only* want to take care of the actual medium itself but not the surroundings, the documentaiton, the support, the everything else. Please take no offence, I have deep respect for anybody who is willing to put in hours of work for this | 21:17 |
| svenstaro2 | cause. | 21:17 |
| svenstaro2 | alkisg: So maybe we can combine arms, you take care of the actual medium itself and I take care of everything else? :) | 21:19 |
| alkisg | Sure, but if you have experience with live cd/dvds I'd like some help in that :) | 21:20 |
| alkisg | svenstaro2: as for the name, I thought of "ruler = Ruler is Ubuntu/LTSP Educational Remix" :P | 21:21 |
| alkisg | This is also teacher-friendly :P | 21:21 |
| alkisg | Also, it would be nice if it included gpxe in floppy/cd or even wubi images, to be more easy to reuse old windows labs | 21:23 |
| svenstaro2 | You mean for computers that can't netboot? | 21:24 |
| alkisg | Yes, there are lots of those labs here | 21:25 |
| alkisg | I hope I'll get some time to also include this on the cd (with a windows installer, that is...) | 21:26 |
| svenstaro2 | I think I have lost you there. Why not just put the gpxe images onto the disk with a nice GUI to write them? | 21:31 |
| svenstaro2 | And what do you mean, a windows installer? | 21:32 |
| svenstaro2 | Wubi? | 21:32 |
| svenstaro2 | A school server shouldn't have to dual boot, put in the distro, check that everything works live, install it and kill Windows :D | 21:33 |
| alkisg | well, at least here that's not possible, (1) teachers are afraid to start using linux without having windows as a backup solution, and (2) there are some windows-only educational apps they have to use | 21:38 |
| alkisg | So for the first year at least they have to dual boot... :( | 21:38 |
| svenstaro2 | Can you tell me a bit about caspar? I'm familiar with "sugarless" creation of live media, but not with caspar. | 21:42 |
| alkisg | I've no idea how casper works | 21:42 |
| alkisg | I'll need to read on that :( | 21:42 |
| svenstaro2 | Mh. Me too, I guess. | 21:42 |
| alkisg | But I think it already uses a compressed image, so I don't think a CD will suffice without removing some stuff... | 21:44 |
| svenstaro2 | K12 is using about 900MB in an image. | 21:44 |
| svenstaro2 | We might be able to fit it on a CD if we are very smart. | 21:45 |
| svenstaro2 | Using LZMA is one way. | 21:45 |
| svenstaro2 | Also, I was thinking of going for "Schoolbuntu" as a name as it implies its goal. | 21:46 |
| alkisg | No problem with the name :) | 21:46 |
| alkisg | What edu apps do you think should go in it? | 21:46 |
| alkisg | E.g. all kde-edu? | 21:46 |
| svenstaro2 | I was evaluating a lot of education applications in the last days. I haven't come up with a list, but I think kde-edu is great. | 21:47 |
| svenstaro2 | Kalzium is a great asset | 21:47 |
| svenstaro2 | Step is great but very unstable and underdeveloped. | 21:48 |
| svenstaro2 | I would love to use Step in my physics lessons :/ | 21:48 |
| alkisg | I'd like kturtle and scratch on it | 21:48 |
| alkisg | gnome or kde based? | 21:48 |
| svenstaro2 | I do like both, but I think in this case Gnome should be prefered for reasons of compatibility with ubuntu and simplicity. | 21:49 |
| svenstaro2 | KDE is better, too. | 21:49 |
| svenstaro2 | bigger* | 21:50 |
| alkisg | I agree... well, I'll have free time to start with it in the summer (I'm a teacher and here in Greece we get long summer vacations) | 21:50 |
| svenstaro2 | What do you think about different sets of educational software like Edubuntu has in its latest release? Do you think that is useful? | 21:50 |
| alkisg | So if you want, we could cooperate... | 21:51 |
| svenstaro2 | I'm a student so I always have free time. | 21:51 |
| svenstaro2 | Sure, definitely. | 21:51 |
| svenstaro2 | It would be a waste of resources if we didn't. | 21:51 |
| alkisg | No, I don't think the educational systems are too different between countries for the pri/secondary/tetrietary divisions to make any sense | 21:51 |
| alkisg | *I think the educational... | 21:52 |
| svenstaro2 | Agreed. | 21:52 |
| svenstaro2 | But should we just bloat it until kingdom come? | 21:52 |
| svenstaro2 | With all "possible" software, that is? | 21:52 |
| alkisg | But most packages should be "recommends", not "depends", so that they could be uninstalled without breaking anything | 21:53 |
| alkisg | Well I think we could leave enough programs out until there's someone that specifically asks for them, what do you think? | 21:53 |
| svenstaro2 | We have to decide in which configurations the distro might be used. School labs as terminal server is one thing, but for example in my school teachers like single workstations for their lessons sometimes. | 21:53 |
| alkisg | I think the same dvd can be used for both cases | 21:54 |
| svenstaro2 | Of course, we must not split up our release. It will severely confuse people who try it out. | 21:54 |
| alkisg | E.g. start up as a normal workstartion, and double click on an "ltsp-server" icon on the desktop to make it an ltsp server | 21:54 |
| alkisg | Or select an entry while isolinux boots | 21:55 |
| svenstaro2 | Mh.. let's think about what uses the distro might encounter. | 21:57 |
| svenstaro2 | There's ktechlab for example, it can simulate circuits and is able to outrun some commercial software at that. | 21:58 |
| svenstaro2 | So that's a goodie for physics. So will teachers use that on a single workstatin in the classroom or will they always go to the computer lab? | 21:58 |
| svenstaro2 | What is it like in your school, do you have workstations in classrooms? | 21:59 |
| alkisg | Not really | 21:59 |
| alkisg | Edubuntu/schoollinux/etc here are only going to be used as ltsp servers | 21:59 |
| alkisg | And with 5-10 year old windows PCs as clients | 22:00 |
| svenstaro2 | I see | 22:00 |
| svenstaro2 | Well, we certainly want to address workstations too, I guess. Though we should focus on getting the LTSP perfected. | 22:00 |
| svenstaro2 | Are there any other people here that would chime in on a new project? | 22:01 |
| alkisg | I think there are many people here that would be interested, but people feel unsafe to invest in a new project after the edubuntu ...bubble :) | 22:03 |
| svenstaro2 | Can you help me find the page where it lists the rules for having a *buntu distro? | 22:03 |
| svenstaro2 | Can't seem to find it. | 22:03 |
| alkisg | So we should either start with proper planning, or by actually preparing something to show as a starting point... | 22:04 |
| alkisg | I don't think I've seen the page you're saying... | 22:04 |
| svenstaro2 | There are some rules you have to follow else you can't have a Schoolbuntu. | 22:05 |
| alkisg | You mean about using the ubuntu name? | 22:05 |
| alkisg | This one? http://www.ubuntu.com/aboutus/trademarkpolicy | 22:06 |
| svenstaro2 | Oh my, Ubuntu is timing out for me. | 22:08 |
| svenstaro2 | Works again, strange. | 22:08 |
| svenstaro2 | That does seem pretty restrictive in a way. | 22:11 |
| svenstaro2 | We might only "remix" :/ | 22:11 |
| alkisg | Unless we change the name... I don't think schoolbuntu is trademarked | 22:13 |
| alkisg | But I don't think the name is a major concern... :) | 22:13 |
| svenstaro2 | Indeed :) But still, the name should be good in a way that it allows the user to see the distro's purpose. | 22:20 |
| alkisg | svenstaro2: also see this: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2007-January/023107.html | 22:29 |
| svenstaro2 | From the looks of it, it will need blessing from Canocial in any case. | 22:46 |
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