[08:51] <apachelogger> Lure: are you going to organize a discussion about l10n @ uds
[08:51] <Lure> apachelogger: I am not attending uds
[08:52] <Lure> apachelogger: we need to find one of the kubuntu attendees and get him up to speed on topic to discuss this with rosetta
[08:52] <apachelogger> that didn't work out last time
[08:52] <Lure> apachelogger: important thing is that we need to have a spec which is then milestoned for karmic
[08:53] <Lure> this is the only way to move forward, otherwise we will not get enough attention during the cycle
[08:53] <apachelogger> hm, believe me, I am quite good at getting attention
[08:59] <Lure> apachelogger: it is not just attention, but also time from rosetta developers to get things done
[09:00]  * Lure hates shitty irc connection from work
[09:00] <apachelogger> Lure: a spec doesn't ensure that either, it's not like anyone has to sign anything to accept the spec
[09:01] <apachelogger> it's nothing but a written description of what someone is going to do in a somewhat predefined time frame
[09:04] <Pepeg> hi everybody
[09:04] <Lure> apachelogger: spec is at least on radar screen of mgmt with some clear ownership
[09:05] <Lure> apachelogger: at least for canonical employees, it means that they are accountable for ;-)
[09:05] <apachelogger> not if the management says that they have to spend their time on something more important :P
[09:06] <apachelogger> that said, they are understaffed so it is doubtable they even would commit to getting it done for karmic
[09:06] <apachelogger> anyway
[09:06] <apachelogger> Lure: if you find someone to discuss this @ uds all the better
[09:07] <Pepeg> I don't know if it's the right place to ask, but hum I'm trying to create a small kde4 app using cmake and I've got some trouble to build it...
[09:08] <Pepeg> I wonder if someone could help me there, or if there is a place to get some help
[09:10] <Pepeg> I searched for a few hours over the net but still...
[09:10] <apachelogger> mkdir build; cd build; cmake ..; make; sudo make install
[09:10] <Pepeg> I managed to build it successfully a few weeks or months ago, but I reinstalled my system and I've got trouble with cmake now
[09:10] <apachelogger> if that doesn't work please consult the support channel #kubuntu or #kde :)
[09:11] <Pepeg> okay I'll do that thanks
[09:11] <Pepeg> (and no it doesn't work :p)
[09:15] <eagles0513875> whose understaffed
[09:17] <jussi01> eagles0513875: ?
[09:17] <eagles0513875> apache was having a discussion and said someone is understaffed
[09:40] <apachelogger> Riddell: is there already a fix for the "packagekit-needs-fork" bug?
[09:40] <apachelogger> also ... for the packagekit-cant-upgrade-if-new-package-is-needed
[09:41] <eagles0513875> there is more wrong with it then what was mentioned
[11:23] <eagles0513875> Riddell: anything that needs testing for karmic let me know
[12:05] <JontheEchidna> Riddell: ping
[12:09] <eagles0513875> hey JontheEchidna loved the interview you did on kubuntu-de
[12:10] <JontheEchidna> glad you liked it
[12:10] <eagles0513875> learned alot bout you as well as jaunty
[12:10] <eagles0513875> you put me to shame im almost 22 and i cant do nearly half as much as you can
[12:12] <eagles0513875> JontheEchidna: are you busy right now
[12:12] <udoeverything> Hiho. Any1 in need of help with something?
[12:12] <JontheEchidna> not really, just woke up
[12:12] <eagles0513875> udoeverything: well can you test something for me
[12:13] <udoeverything> sure
[12:13] <udoeverything> what shall I do?
[12:13] <eagles0513875> can you take a look at bug 176114
[12:13] <eagles0513875> try duplicate please and respond upstream if you can or cannot replicate it
[12:13] <eagles0513875> plz and ty
[12:14] <eagles0513875> udoeverything: hope you dont mind i would do it but im busy and stressing with exams atm
[12:15] <udoeverything> upstream, as in bugs.kde?
[12:15] <eagles0513875> the upstream bug report is linked to the launchpad one
[12:15] <udoeverything> kk
[12:15]  * udoeverything goes reading 
[12:15] <eagles0513875> thanks udoeverything
[12:26] <udoeverything> eagles0513875: where do I get KDE3 Konqi?
[12:26] <eagles0513875> udoeverything: the person wants to know if you can replicate the bug with the latest version of konq on kde 4.2
[12:26] <JontheEchidna> we would want to try to reproduce with KDE4 konq
[12:26] <JontheEchidna> eagles0513875:  really, you should test first before upstreaming the bug :/
[12:26] <udoeverything> oh, doh :) now I get it
[12:27] <eagles0513875> JontheEchidna: it was on the wishlist
[12:27] <eagles0513875> someone mislabled that bug as wish list but ill do that before upstreaming
[12:27] <eagles0513875> if i can get wubi setup on  my desktop
[12:28] <eagles0513875> apachelogger: ping
[12:30] <apachelogger> sup?
[12:30] <udoeverything> eagles0513875: cannot reproduce. Konqi4 is fine
[12:31] <eagles0513875> udoeverything: ok ill inform upstream
[12:31] <eagles0513875> apachelogger: error 500 when trying to access your wiki you were working on yesterday
[12:32] <apachelogger> eagles0513875: #canonical-sysadmins
[12:32] <udoeverything> anybody else need help?
[12:32] <eagles0513875> ok
[12:33] <eagles0513875> apachelogger: it takes me to a channel where i am the only one in there
[12:50] <apachelogger> what the heck
[12:51] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: is there some known bug in kpc?
[12:51] <JontheEchidna> kpc? It's too early in the morning for acronymns, it seems
[12:52] <apachelogger> kpixmapcache
[12:52] <apachelogger> every plasma theme causes 120 mib cache files
[12:52] <apachelogger> man
[12:52] <JontheEchidna> O.o
[12:52] <apachelogger> that filelight pre-stable is awful crap
[12:52]  * eagles0513875 hands JontheEchidna a pot of coffee
[12:53] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: kpc == the thingy that makes your kde not die because of all the fancy oxygen work :P
[12:53]  * eagles0513875 thought all that oxygen work gave kde life
[12:54] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: anyway, we should look into this
[12:54] <apachelogger> I have 1.9 GiB of kpc data
[12:54] <apachelogger> mostly 120 MiB sized plasma themes
[12:55] <apachelogger> that is a quite fatal flaw IMHO
[12:55] <JontheEchidna> I know there was recently a Qt bug uncovered where it wouldn't delete pixmaps. Ever.
[12:55] <JontheEchidna> Which is why so many people had plasma memory leaks
[12:55] <JontheEchidna> maybe kpc is caching all these never-deleted pixmaps?
[12:56] <apachelogger> possible
[12:56] <apachelogger> but why would every plasma theme usie the same amount of space then
[12:57]  * apachelogger thinks that a) the cache size should be lowered and b) the cache should be deleted when switching to another theme
[12:57] <JontheEchidna> standardized amount of theme elements? Or maybe they all hit the upper limit of the cache eventually?
[12:57] <apachelogger> I really didn't use that many themes for that long :D
[12:57]  * apachelogger diggs to desktop
[12:59] <apachelogger> -rw-r--r--  1 me me 121M 2009-05-04 13:59 plasma_theme_air.data
[12:59] <apachelogger> -rw-r--r--  1 me me  33M 2009-05-04 13:59 plasma_theme_air.index
[12:59] <apachelogger> -rw-r--r--  1 me me 121M 2009-05-04 13:59 plasma_theme_MistMID.data
[12:59] <apachelogger> -rw-r--r--  1 me me  33M 2009-05-04 13:59 plasma_theme_MistMID.index
[12:59] <apachelogger> what is way too much cache, even for my liking
[13:04] <eagles0513875> O_O im not liking the sizes either of em
[13:16] <eagles0513875> apachelogger: the amarok-dbg package in kubuntu-experimental is still missing some things amarok crashed on me and still got an unusable backtrace
[13:22] <apachelogger> explain
[13:23] <eagles0513875> for some reason when amarok crashed on me i got the dialogue box saying the backtrace is useless granted it looks like there is a decent backtrace
[13:24] <eagles0513875> if it happens again ill post you the backtrace and see what you think
[13:28] <eagles0513875> there is a major issue in logout script that keeps causing something to cancel my logout
[13:28] <eagles0513875> same with shutdown
[13:35] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: got time to put your core-dev hat on and sponsor bug 334657 for jaunty-proposed?
[13:36] <JontheEchidna> oh, whoops
[13:36] <JontheEchidna> I put jaunty-updates as the series in the changelog
[13:38] <eagles0513875> where can i get support for wubi
[13:38] <nhnFreespirit_> heya
[13:38]  * nhnFreespirit_ comes to yell at apachelogger a little
[13:39] <nhnFreespirit_> apachelogger: the updated qtscriptbindings package still does not work
[13:39] <apachelogger> lol
[13:40] <apachelogger> there is a typo
[13:40] <apachelogger> so much for putting apachelogger under pressure to get if fixed, huh :P
[13:40] <nhnFreespirit_> heh
[13:40] <eagles0513875> nhnFreespirit_: you still having any issues with the amarok-dbg package cuz im still getting usless backtraces so it said
[13:40] <nhnFreespirit_> my /usr/lib/qt4/plugins/script dir is still empty after the update
[13:40] <nhnFreespirit_> eagles0513875: dunno
[13:41] <apachelogger> nhnFreespirit_: I typed libt :D
[13:41] <nhnFreespirit_> apachelogger: oh
[13:41] <eagles0513875> i had a crash earlier and it told me the backtrace was useless granted it had some usefull information next backtrace i get ill pastbin for feedback
[13:42] <apachelogger> nhnFreespirit_: ppa3 should be our lucky version
[13:42] <nhnFreespirit_> apachelogger: indeed, all the files are nicely in /usr/libt/....
[13:42] <nhnFreespirit_> :-)
[13:42] <eagles0513875> apachelogger: as they say 3rd times the charm lol
[13:43] <apachelogger> well, I still don't like the package any bit
[13:43] <apachelogger> nhnFreespirit_: ppa build queue is backed up till next year
[13:44]  * apachelogger is wondering what happened to the other ppa buildds
[13:44] <nhnFreespirit_> apachelogger: ouvh
[13:44] <nhnFreespirit_> more servers?
[13:44] <Mamarok> apachelogger: I guess the typo hit there hard too...
[13:45] <apachelogger> nhnFreespirit_: there were twice as many at some point
[13:45] <apachelogger> no clue what happened
[13:45] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: I hope you testbuilt?
[13:46] <JontheEchidna> yus, I put in a PPA
[13:46] <apachelogger> I also hope that patch is not regressing anything
[13:46] <JontheEchidna> then changed the version/series
[13:46] <apachelogger> you know our luck with suse patches
[13:46] <JontheEchidna> it does disable the new, faulty vertical RBG/BGR filter
[13:46] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: wrong series btw
[13:46] <JontheEchidna> but otherwise it is corrupted font city if that is set
[13:46] <apachelogger> series should be -proposed
[13:47] <apachelogger> from there it only gets copied to -updates
[13:47] <JontheEchidna> [08:35:54] <JontheEchidna> oh, whoops
[13:47] <JontheEchidna> [08:36:07] <JontheEchidna> I put jaunty-updates as the series in the changelog
[13:47] <apachelogger> ah, right :P
[13:47] <JontheEchidna> I'm re-source-building the package, but if you just want to change that before signing the package, that's fine too
[13:48] <apachelogger> already did
[13:48] <JontheEchidna> ok, cool
[13:50]  * JontheEchidna knew that bug 365285 would happen eventually...
[13:52] <apachelogger> hm
[13:53] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: I find the version number weird
[13:53] <apachelogger> why not ubuntu4.1?
[13:54] <JontheEchidna> That is probably more correct. I'm just used to our backported KDE packages with ~seriesn ending up in updates
[13:54] <ScottK> BTW, if you accidentally put -updates as the upload target and an archive admin doesn't notice and accept it, the package really does go direct to -updates with no testing.
[13:54] <ScottK> FYI.
[13:55]  * apachelogger shudders
[13:55] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: ~seriesN is usually for backports.
[13:55] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: well, it is a SRU no backport :P
[13:55] <JontheEchidna> yeah, just a mind-slip there
[13:55] <ScottK> apachelogger: It was only Spamassassin on Dapper, so not a big deal.
[13:56]  * ScottK really goes away now.
[14:47] <Oceanwatcher_> There are some things that seem to have been left out of Kubuntu when I compare it to the standard KDE. Does anyone have a list of that and a reason why things were dropped?
[14:49] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: thanks for the sponsor, I plan to go for core-dev soonish
[14:49]  * JontheEchidna steps out for 20 mins
[15:02] <a|wen> Oceanwatcher_: can you be more specific?
[15:04] <Oceanwatcher_> Hi a|wen :-) Yes. The buttons to change position of multiple monitors are gone in the Display settings. The whole module for partitioning harddisks is gone.
[15:05] <seele> qtparted? i dont think that is part of kde base is it?
[15:06] <a|wen> Oceanwatcher_: for the partionmanager you need to install the package "partitionmanager" ... at least in kde 4.2 it is not part of standard kde
[15:09] <Oceanwatcher_> Ok.. What about the missing buttons? Seems like the Display module is of really no use. If you use a proprietary driver, it has it's own system. If you use the opensource drivers, Display do not work... I was setting up and ATI based graphics card for a friend with dual monitors, and spent a whole day trying to figure out xorg.conf.
[15:10] <a|wen> Oceanwatcher_: as for the "multiple monitors" button ... from the code it looks to be used to configure xinerama only (which very few drivers use anymore) and the kde code also disables it (hopefully only) when you use a driver that does not support xinerama
[15:11] <eagles0513875> apachelogger: have a backtrace for you to look at not sure if its good or not
[15:11] <eagles0513875> backtrace seems fine
[15:12] <eagles0513875> http://pastebin.com/m1b437ce9
[15:12] <a|wen> Oceanwatcher: or is it some other buttons you are referring to?
[15:12] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: don't count on my support unless you either get daft punk to play at some random kubuntu event (relesae partee?) or at least a couple of minions
[15:12] <Oceanwatcher_> Hmm.... So if you use the opensource driver, what are my options? Take a look at this http://kubuntuforums.net/forums/index.php?topic=3103103.0
[15:14] <apachelogger> eagles0513875: dpkg -s amarok-dbg
[15:14] <eagles0513875> ok
[15:14] <a|wen> Oceanwatcher: in the "size & orientation" part you can tell a monitor to be left/right/above/below another monitor
[15:15] <eagles0513875> apachelogger: that is a different error then i got before that i got when clearing my play list the other thing is when i delete a single song from play list i get a backtrace which has information but it says its useless
[15:15] <Oceanwatcher> a|wen: No. The buttons do not exist.
[15:15] <a|wen> Oceanwatcher: i'm using the open source ati driver on current jaunty; and I have the buttons
[15:16] <Oceanwatcher> Ok... Let me find the screenshot for you if you want. Or you can take my word for it. Seems like a lot of other people have the same problem.
[15:17] <Oceanwatcher> Did you check the link I sent you?
[15:17] <a|wen> Oceanwatcher: yeah ... lot of xorg.conf stuff (and a screenshot that doesn't load)
[15:18] <a|wen> Oceanwatcher: what about after you add a "virtual" line to the screen options ... are they still not there at that point?
[15:19] <apachelogger> ha
[15:19] <apachelogger> what a waste of time
[15:19]  * apachelogger is pissed and refuses to work until thursday
[15:19] <seele> lol
[15:19] <eagles0513875> whats wrong
[15:20] <a|wen> Oceanwatcher: this is the xorg.conf i use http://paste.ubuntu.com:80/164238/
[15:22] <Oceanwatcher> a|wen: I did add a virtual line... check the 6th post from the top. It has the current xorg.conf that actually work, but things are a bit shaky.
[15:22] <a|wen> Oceanwatcher: but the you don't have the "position" option in "size & orientation" then?
[15:23] <Oceanwatcher> The problem is: You can edit xorg.conf, but if you click on the Display setting, both monitors revert to the same resolution and they are mirrored again. So you have to restart to get the dual monitors back.
[15:24] <a|wen> Oceanwatcher: what if you change the position in there (while they are now mirrored) does that work?
[15:24] <Oceanwatcher> I tried A LOT of tutorials and tips. The best one I found said that a lot of commands were not needed anymore and some should definitely not be there at all. After doing that one and testing things line by line with restarts, I ended up with this one.
[15:25] <Oceanwatcher> As I am telling you - there are no buttons to do it.
[15:25] <Oceanwatcher> The only way to get things to work is through xorg.conf
[15:25] <Oceanwatcher> And a reboot
[15:25] <a|wen> Oceanwatcher: so the "position" buttons are simply gone both with and with-out the virtual-line?
[15:25] <Oceanwatcher> Yep
[15:26] <Oceanwatcher> I can not open the display settings at all after. It reverts back to mirrored and same resolution immediately.
[15:26] <apachelogger> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmjR0Uxprg0 a cross is good, but really, it is just no pyramid
[15:27] <a|wen> Oceanwatcher: that is indeed strange then ... i know we haven't patched anything out of the screen module (i've checked that myself), and the position options does exist on my screen
[15:28] <Oceanwatcher> Things should be a little easier than this :-) And here is something else to add to it: I just installed the standard KDE (4.1) on top of Ubuntu server 8.10 that is running on an old IBM laptop with an equally old ATI graphics board. Guess what? The buttons are there and I am allowed to change them.
[15:30] <a|wen> Oceanwatcher: well, then me and your IBM agree :) ... in the upstream code there are some checks for when to show the position-line ... but why those tests fails in your case is a very good question
[15:30] <Oceanwatcher> Here is also one exercise I tried: I just removed the whole xorg.conf - deleted it. And it boots in mirrored mode, same resolution on both monitors.
[15:31] <eagles0513875> can i ask a question about wubi  or is there another channel to go for that
[15:31] <a|wen> Oceanwatcher: but still no position option i guess?
[15:31] <Oceanwatcher> a|wen - Actually, the fact that it shows on my IBM is not that surprising. It is not Kubuntu. It is the plain vanilla KDE.
[15:32] <a|wen> Oceanwatcher: well, the screen module is one of the things that we actually use very vanilla
[15:33] <a|wen> Oceanwatcher: can i have you test my xorg.conf (where "virtual" is the only thing specified) and see what happens in that case?
[15:33] <Oceanwatcher> As I talked to someone else in the KDE forum, he showed me a screenshot of how it should be. That was the first I heard of the buttons. Before that, I did not know something was missing. Just thought someone had forgotten all about dual monitors :-)
[15:33] <Oceanwatcher> Sure. I have to walk over to my friend to do that. He lives a bit furhter down the street.
[15:34] <a|wen> well, the checks for when to show and when not to show the "position" line, is also KDE's
[15:35] <a|wen> Oceanwatcher: i'll be back later, but just ping me with the result using the "simple+virtual" xorg.conf
[15:36] <Oceanwatcher> Ok. Thanks
[15:42] <Mamarok> eagles0513875: please do not top post in mailing lists...
[15:43] <eagles0513875> Mamarok: ?
[15:45] <Mamarok> eagles0513875: you wrote a mail to the users list, where you not only did top posting but also sent a digest mail hunders of lines long, this is not necessary
[15:46] <Mamarok> eagles0513875: you got a mail back from me
[15:46] <eagles0513875> my bad
[16:00] <a|wen> Oceanwatcher: still there?
[16:01] <Oceanwatcher> Yes
[16:01] <Oceanwatcher> It will take a little while before I can get over to my friend. Lunch time here in Brazil now.
[16:01] <Oceanwatcher> :-)
[16:02] <a|wen> Oceanwatcher: the 8.10 with vanilla kde you are talking about, it was using ati? and what does it run "below" kde?
[16:02] <a|wen> Oceanwatcher: getting time for late dinner here in thailand :)
[16:03] <Oceanwatcher> :-) Ubuntu Server 8.10 with no gui. Just started the GUI install yesterday.
[16:03] <eagles0513875> soon dinner time here central europe
[16:03] <eagles0513875> 3 different parts of world :) working as one
[16:04] <a|wen> Oceanwatcher: okay ... okay, then there is no point in figuring out about differences in the X-stack, as it is obvious the same
[16:05] <Oceanwatcher> Could be... I installed it from the repos. I am currently doing an upgrade to the server - 8.10 to 9.04 and will of course be checking what happens with the Display settings.
[16:05] <a|wen> Oceanwatcher: do you currently have it running on 8.10?
[16:06] <a|wen> Oceanwatcher: can you post me the output of xorg.conf as well as the output from running "xrandr"?
[16:06] <Oceanwatcher> from where?
[16:07] <Oceanwatcher> the server?
[16:07] <Oceanwatcher> Or my friends pc?
[16:07] <Oceanwatcher> I can ask hime to run xrandr in a terminal
[16:07] <Oceanwatcher> And post
[16:08] <a|wen> Oceanwatcher: you had a kde running where the "position" options was there
[16:08] <a|wen> Oceanwatcher: on that one
[16:08] <a|wen> i'm trying to maybe figure out when they are there ... and what might make them disappear
[16:08] <Oceanwatcher> Ok. Will check it now. The server just finished upgrading. Rebooting it now.
[16:09] <cbr> how do i enable kms with latest ubuntu kernel?
[16:09] <cbr> will the kernel line parameter do the trick?
[16:09] <a|wen> cbr: you are talking about dkms?
[16:10] <cbr> no, kms
[16:10] <Oceanwatcher> a|wen: Ok. I will help you as much as I can. A lot of people are hoping for an answer. If we can solve this we make many people happy :-)
[16:12] <a|wen> Oceanwatcher: would be nice to figure out what magic happens ... that will hopefully also make it possible to make sure that the right type of magic can be implemented for karmic without needing for extra things to be done
[16:13] <a|wen> cbr: we are not really kernel people in here ... you might have more luck asking in the generic #ubuntu channel
[16:13] <Oceanwatcher> a|wen: Well - the upgrade installed KDE 4.2.2 and that killed the buttons...
[16:13] <eagles0513875> cbr: there is also ubuntu-kernel that might help as well
[16:14] <a|wen> Oceanwatcher: so looks like there indeed is a difference between 4.1.4 and 4.2.2 in that regards ...
[16:15] <a|wen> Oceanwatcher: does the minimal xorg+virtual make it any better?
[16:17] <Oceanwatcher> I will check. Just have to tak a friends kid to school. Back in 10 minutes.
[16:19] <a|wen> thx
[16:49] <neversfelde> apachelogger: ping
[16:53] <apachelogger> neversfelde: pong
[16:54] <neversfelde> hi apachelogger, where should kio_groupwise.so be placed in ubuntu, debian is using kdepim-groupware.install, but we do not have that in jaunty?
[16:55] <apachelogger> along with the other groupwise stuff, whether that might be
[16:57] <JontheEchidna> we should probably pick up the kdepim-groupware package when we merge
[16:57] <neversfelde> mhh, ok. So I should delete all the stuff wich debian places in kdepim-groupware.install in the other *.install files and create a new kdepim-groupware.install for ubuntu?
[16:57] <neversfelde> or is it possible to backport that from karmic after merge
[16:58] <apachelogger> backport != SRU
[16:58] <apachelogger> neversfelde: stuff the file from -dev to libkdepim4.install
[16:59] <apachelogger> and make libkdepim4 replace << $newversion of -dev
[16:59] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna can help you :D
[16:59]  * apachelogger is not working :P
[16:59] <neversfelde> hehe
[17:02] <apachelogger> something on my laptop is eating disk space
[17:03]  * smarter bets for strigi :]
[17:03] <neversfelde> +1
[17:04] <apachelogger> nah
[17:04] <apachelogger> it's on my root partiton
[17:05] <apachelogger> home got it's own one
[17:05] <apachelogger> als interesting is that according to filelight 2 GiB should be free
[17:05] <apachelogger> linux is tha crap
[17:05] <smarter> pydf ftw
[17:05]  * apachelogger reboots
[17:05] <neversfelde> you probably accidently installed backup-manager and configured it to make a traball of /var every day?
[17:05] <neversfelde> :D
[17:06] <apachelogger> I never do anything accidently
[17:06] <neversfelde> I did this some weeks ago, late in the night ofcourse :)
[17:08] <apachelogger> linux is so stupid
[17:08] <apachelogger> /dev/sda4             9,2G  5,5G  3,2G  64% /
[17:11] <Oceanwatcher> a|wen: ping
[17:11] <a|wen> hi again Oceanwatcher
[17:12] <Oceanwatcher> Just put your minimal xorg.conf on my server. Had to reboot it. CTRL-ALT-Backspace did not do anything.
[17:12] <Oceanwatcher> Let me check what happened.
[17:13] <Oceanwatcher> As expected: Nothing. Did not change anything. No buttons.
[17:13] <Oceanwatcher> I do have some garbage graphics on the screen from time to time. But that is a different problem :-)
[17:14] <a|wen> Oceanwatcher: indeed strange; what does the output of "xrandr" say?
[17:14] <Oceanwatcher> Checking now
[17:15] <a|wen> Oceanwatcher: i have that garbage too when using EXA (the default) reverting to XAA in xorg.conf solves it for me
[17:17] <Oceanwatcher> Ok. Thanks. Will add that :-)
[17:17] <Oceanwatcher> Where do I put the results of xrandr. Saw that you had a nice place to put it. Never seen it before.
[17:19] <a|wen> !pastebin
[17:19] <a|wen> Oceanwatcher: ^^
[17:19] <Oceanwatcher> Found a plasmoid called pastebin. trying it.
[17:19] <Oceanwatcher> http://pastebin.ca/1412238
[17:20] <Oceanwatcher> Is this working?
[17:21] <Oceanwatcher> Sorry - http://pastebin.ca/1412241
[17:21] <Oceanwatcher> Found out how it is working - I think...
[17:22] <Oceanwatcher> a|wen: ^^
[17:22] <Oceanwatcher> a|wen: I am trying to learn the way things are done here :-)
[17:23] <a|wen> Oceanwatcher: that worked :) hmm, that does look pretty sane; the virtual size is set; so it is apparently something else that decides it
[17:24] <Oceanwatcher> Yup. My reasoning too. Same with my friends pc.
[17:24] <Oceanwatcher> a|wen: And your xorg.conf is the one you sent me?
[17:25] <Oceanwatcher> a|wen: Do you have a dual head graphics card (or a laptop with extra output)?
[17:26] <a|wen> Oceanwatcher: this is my real xorg.conf http://paste.ubuntu.com/164299/ ... with the added XAA setting
[17:26] <a|wen> Oceanwatcher: i have a laptop with an extra output
[17:30] <Oceanwatcher> a|wen: Ok. Thanks. Added the XAA setting and restarting the server again. Hope to get rid of the garbage.
[17:31] <Oceanwatcher> a|wen:  Did you do a clean install of your Kubuntu, or did you upgrade from a prerelease/previous version?
[17:36] <a|wen> Oceanwatcher: i upgraded from intrepid to a pre-release jaunty
[17:38] <Oceanwatcher> a|wen: Hmm.... The server went from 8.10 to 9.04 and KDE went from 4.1 to 4.2. My friends PC first had Jaunty Alpha6 installed and then upgraded to 9.04 when it was released. Never saw the buttons at any point except for the 4.1 version of KDE.
[17:39] <Oceanwatcher> a|wen: No more garbage on the screen. Thank you for that one!
[17:40] <a|wen> Oceanwatcher: so seem we can conclude that the buttons definitely are in kde4.1 ... and in kde4.2 i seem to be very lucky
[17:44] <Oceanwatcher> a|wen: Yup. You mentioned earlier something about a specific setting where these buttons should be activated, but in the mean time, I reconfigured Quassel. Can you repeat that?
[17:45] <Oceanwatcher> a|wen: Maybe I should try to add something about that.
[17:47] <a|wen> Oceanwatcher: i can only see from the code, that it does some checks ... but i haven't reverse-engineered it (and didn't find a description of it)
[17:47] <a|wen> Oceanwatcher: my guess was that the "virtual" size needed to be big enough ... but that doesn't look to hold
[17:51] <Oceanwatcher> Here is a funny thing! Just expanded the sections in Display settings that do not have anything attaced. And they have the buttons! Of course, it is greyed out because nothing is attached. But those things that have monitors attached do not have the buttons. Here is a guess: Something happens when X boots with a monitor attached. I have not tried to "hotplug" the external monitor yet.
[17:52] <Oceanwatcher> a|wen: ^^
[17:57] <a|wen> Oceanwatcher: that is indeed a possibility
[17:57] <a|wen> or can't be ruled out at least
[18:00] <Oceanwatcher> I will try to reboot the server without the monitor attached, and the hotplug it to see if it changes anything.
[18:03] <a|wen> thx
[18:28] <gon> Hi
[18:29] <gon> i have some problems connecting to the university wifi (WEP)
[18:29] <gon> I can't understand why, in 8.10 works fine
[18:31] <gon> apparently does not receive ip from dhcp, and finally gives timeout,
[18:31] <gon> What information can I get to help with this error?
[18:33] <eagles0513875> gon: this is development channel support can be found in #kubuntu
[18:33] <gon> ok
[18:33] <eagles0513875> thanks
[18:36] <Oceanwatcher> a|wen: Rebooted and it is not possible to hotplug before login. Opened the laptop screen and it had started up in the native resolution, 1600x1200. tried plugging in the external monitor, not luck. And now, the buttons are there under VGA, but greyed out. But something strange happened when I opened Display settings. The resolution popped back to 1152x864, a resolution I have never used with this laptop before.
[18:36] <jefferai> xrandr --auto
[18:36] <jefferai> in konsole
[18:40] <a|wen> Oceanwatcher: sounds like some settings (with that 1152x864) might be stored somewhere with your user
[18:40] <a|wen> Oceanwatcher: at least we found the buttons now, though they are greyed out
[18:42] <a|wen> looks like it is something that needs to be looked at during the karmic cycle ... i need to get back to my extra monitor so i can actually test those things
[18:45] <Oceanwatcher> jefferai: Thx. That gave me picture on the external monitor, but I can not set a too high resolution on the laptop monitor. As they are mirrored, the resolution can not be too different.
[18:47] <a|wen> Oceanwatcher: you can use --left-of and --right-of with xrandr
[18:47] <Oceanwatcher> a|wen: Yes. Actually, I was hoping it could be treated as a bug and that a bugfix would be released. A lot of people need this. Not only people with dual monitors on the desktop, but just about everyone running Kubuntu on a laptop with an ATI graphics card. If they want to connect a projector to do a presentation, they have problems...
[18:48] <Oceanwatcher> Eh.. I do not know xrandr too well. Do you have the complete command?
[18:48] <Oceanwatcher> a|wen: The monitors are VGA and LVDS
[18:48] <a|wen> Oceanwatcher: that is indeed possible ... if we get to figure out what exactly is wrong and can patch the tool to work ... but currently it seems very much like magic how thigs appear and disappear :/
[18:49] <a|wen> Oceanwatcher: xrandr --output VGA --right-of LVDS
[18:49] <a|wen> or switch VGA/LVDS if needed :)
[18:49] <Oceanwatcher> a|wen: Well, I am here and willing to help trying things out as long as it don't completely crashes my server :-)
[18:51] <a|wen> Oceanwatcher: it's definitely something i'll look at as well ... but not having an external monitor atm is my handicap
[18:51] <Oceanwatcher> a|wen: Tried it. Nothing happened. Still mirrored.
[18:52] <a|wen> Oceanwatcher: your output is called VGA or VGA-0 ?
[18:55] <Oceanwatcher> a|wen: Good catch :-) And now, I have true dual monitors. Not mirrored anymore. BUT - if I change anything in Display settings, it all gets messed up again.
[18:56] <Oceanwatcher> As before. So I bet I can use the same settings as I did with my friends xorg.conf.
[18:57] <a|wen> Oceanwatcher: so in conclusion it seems the screen changing (with ati at least) has some problems in kde4.2
[18:57] <Oceanwatcher> a|wen: Here is another guess: Display settings module is messed up. It does not write things out to xorg.conf and control xrandr the right way...
[18:57] <Oceanwatcher> a|wen: Yes, this seems to be correct.
[18:58] <a|wen> Oceanwatcher: in is actually not meant to write to xorg.conf ... it is meant to do exactly what you did by running the xrandr command
[18:58] <Oceanwatcher> a|wen: SOME problems is putting it mildly :-D
[19:01] <a|wen> he ... don't speak to definitively is my motto (at least sometimes) :)
[19:02] <blizzz> why does 'kdialog --warningyesnocancel asdf' doesn't return a value (like --getsaveurl does)? or am i using it wrong?
[19:02] <Oceanwatcher> a|wen: Ok... So there is some miscommunication there. Probably something to do with the auto thing. I noticed that it never saves the frequency that I set. It always jumps back to auto.
[19:02] <Oceanwatcher> a|wen: Here is a thought - where does the display module save its settings? Can there be a problem there?
[19:04] <a|wen> Oceanwatcher: i thought about that ... but i'm actually not sure, where they are saved; any file that looks possible in .kde/share/config/ ?
[19:04] <JontheEchidna> there is a known problem where KDE doesn't set user-set resolutions until the config module or the krandrtray is opened
[19:05] <Oceanwatcher> Hmm... But if there are both user and system resolutions, where do you choose what to set?
[19:05] <a|wen> that sounds like that could explain, what we are seeing
[19:05] <JontheEchidna> bug 268434
[19:06] <JontheEchidna> :/
[19:06] <a|wen> Oceanwatcher: user is set in the screen module ... system settings in xorg.conf
[19:06] <JontheEchidna> https://launchpad.net/bugs/268434
[19:07] <JontheEchidna> the corresponding kde bug is kde bug 163707
[19:07] <Oceanwatcher> So first the system reads xorg.conf and then what happens if the user settings are different?
[19:08] <a|wen> Oceanwatcher: then it should set them on login ... but due to the bug they are set when you upen the screen settings module
[19:08] <JontheEchidna> or when you open krandrtray
[19:08] <eagles0513875> JontheEchidna: where can i get some help with wubi
[19:08] <Oceanwatcher> And especially why does everything jump back to a "default automatic" mirrored mode..
[19:09] <JontheEchidna> eagles0513875: no clue, not a question for here though
[19:09] <a|wen> Oceanwatcher: i assume it's because your user settings is actually set to that ...
[19:09] <eagles0513875> i know
[19:09] <Oceanwatcher> a|wen: Ok... Actually, then it might be that it is not saving the user settings.
[19:09] <Oceanwatcher> a|wen: Or maybe the user settings do not exist at all?
[19:10] <smarter> blizzz: look at the value it returns
[19:10] <smarter> blizzz: type echo $? to know the value
[19:10] <smarter> 0 = Yes, 1 = No, 2 = Cancel
[19:11] <smarter> then you can do stuff like if [ "kdialog --warningyesnocancel" = "2" ]; then
[19:11] <blizzz> smarter: thanks a lot!
[19:11] <a|wen> Oceanwatcher: are you able to set the user settings to some low resolution to see if that is saved at all
[19:11] <smarter> though using a switch-case for that is probably a better idea
[19:11] <Oceanwatcher> a|wen: Should there be an xorg.conf at .kde/shared/config?
[19:11] <Oceanwatcher> a|wen: Will try now.
[19:12] <a|wen> Oceanwatcher: not an xorg.conf ... i'm still pondering what it could be named
[19:13] <Oceanwatcher> a|wen: Seems to be saving it. I will check what files there has been changed today.
[19:17] <a|wen> Oceanwatcher: okay ... so at least we are back to, that setting multi-monitor in the screen settings doesn't go well
[19:19] <Oceanwatcher> a|wen: Could it be krandrrc ? I will post the content for you.
[19:20] <a|wen> possibly
[19:20] <a|wen> that is indeed the one
[19:25] <a|wen> the notification system for 4.3 sounds like it is improving so much... http://pindablog.wordpress.com/2009/05/04/jobs-and-notifications-in-the-plasma-systray/
[19:29] <Oceanwatcher> a|wen: Stupid question here: Where do a samba share get mounted? I have mounted a sambashare from my server, and it has an icon in Dolphin, so I can find it there. But in Firefox, I need to know where it is mounted... It is not under /media...
[19:29] <Oceanwatcher> a|wen: I know it is a bit newbie, but never had to think about it before :-)
[19:30] <a|wen> Oceanwatcher: isn't it done through a kio-slave ... so no mount is done
[19:30] <Oceanwatcher> Ok. So not possible to access from Firefox. I'll save the file locally :-)
[19:31] <a|wen> afaik no ... but from within kde-apps you should be able to just use the smb:// links
[19:33] <Oceanwatcher> a|wen: Ok. Here is the content of my servers krandrrc http://pastebin.ca/1412377
[19:35] <drostie> whoops. I replied to people flooding my mailbox and now at least two of them have replied back, thinking that I'm an official dev who's dealing with this problem. :-\
[19:35] <a|wen> that is where the 1152 resolution is hidden
[19:35] <drostie> (this is all via a launchpad context, of course. sorry if that's not more clear.)
[19:36] <a|wen> drostie: the painting artifacts on intel?
[19:36] <drostie> yep. and as far as I can tell, it's not just on intel.
[19:36] <drostie> maybe that's wrong, though.
[19:37] <a|wen> drostie: you're right ... it is on ati as well
[19:38] <a|wen> drostie: but only on EXA (that is the same for intel and ati) ... using anything else as EXA solves it
[19:38] <drostie> I'm trying that now with UXA, seeing whether that helps. But it requires there to be a certain amount of lag during a repaint, and I really have to stress my system to get it to do that. :-/
[19:39] <drostie> Anyway. what would it look like to create a downgrade path to qt4.4, since that's apparently what they want?
[19:40] <drostie> besides the whole, "hey guys, grab this from such-and-so ppa, and dpkg -i it!" at the end, I mean.
[19:40] <a|wen> drostie: pretty much not possible ... but kde 4.2.2 has just been pushed to intrepid-backports; so that combination is possible
[19:41] <drostie> meh. if they already have jaunty installed they're not going to like that solution. :-/
[19:43] <Oceanwatcher> a|wen: Yes.. well, not exactly hidden. I had to change resolution to make it pop to the top. So the resolution of the displays and the content of this file corresponds. But I have a feeling there should be more info in that file.
[19:43] <a|wen> drostie: that is true; but as current situation is, that is at least an option ... it is indeed annoying
[19:44] <a|wen> Oceanwatcher: i think there is the info needed ... the problem is that you can't change to a high enough resolution i suppose
[19:47] <Oceanwatcher> a|wen: The info missing is the placement. And that corresponds very well with what actually exists in the display module.
[19:48] <maco> apachelogger: wow @ those screenshots
[19:48] <Oceanwatcher> a|wen: Did you compare with your own krandrrc?
[19:50] <drostie> wait a second. I said my last comment on the assumption that you can't use intrepid-backports from jaunty. but that's entirely false.
[19:51] <a|wen> drostie: well that wouldn't change much
[19:52] <a|wen> drostie: depending on where the problems is of course ... if it is the video drivers or qt, then you need to be on intrepid
[19:52] <a|wen> Oceanwatcher:
[19:52] <a|wen> Oceanwatcher: http://paste.ubuntu.com/164387/ - better :)
[19:53] <drostie> I'm saying, suppose we advise them to uninstall qt4.5 and kde4.2, and reinstall them from the intrepid repositories, and then pin them against further jaunty changes. Even if something goes wrong, they can presumably get their system back the way it was, yes? And it just might help, right?
[19:54] <neversfelde> would someone have a look at bug 370009?
[19:58] <a|wen> drostie: i would say that it sounds like something i wouldn't start giving as advice to anyone ... there has been too many library transitions intrepid to jaunty that could really mess that up
[19:58] <Oceanwatcher> a|wen: Looks the same. No info there that can contain placement.. BUT - I will try something here.
[19:59] <a|wen> Oceanwatcher: i think the first unified is the one defining the mirroring
[19:59] <a|wen> Oceanwatcher: what is your screen sizes?
[20:01] <Oceanwatcher> a|wen: here is how I understsand it: The Rect is where it should go.
[20:02] <a|wen> Oceanwatcher: have you tried running the krandrtray and see if you can make that one play well?
[20:02] <Oceanwatcher> I tried using xrandr to set dual display. It works, but no new settings saved.
[20:02] <drostie> a|wen: I had just about come to the same conclusion after picking through the output of apt-get -s remove libqtcore4.
[20:03] <drostie> erm.
[20:03] <drostie> libqtcore4.
[20:03] <a|wen> Oceanwatcher: krandrtray ... it should use the samme settings-file
[20:04] <Oceanwatcher> a|wen: Do I have to install krandtray?
[20:04] <a|wen> Oceanwatcher: if it is not installed ... can't remember if it is default or not
[20:04] <Oceanwatcher> I'll do an alt-f2
[20:09] <Oceanwatcher> It was installed here. Got an icon in the try, but all the same options. So this is consistent.
[20:10] <Oceanwatcher> a|wen: You mentioned that some buttons was only used by Xinerama. What buttons, and why?
[20:11] <Oceanwatcher> Maybe that is the problem - they set it to only be used by Xinerama and forgot that it is needed by the others? :-)
[20:11] <a|wen> Oceanwatcher: there is an extra "multi monitor" button in the list to the left if you have xinerama
[20:11] <Oceanwatcher> True. Noticed that.
[20:11] <Oceanwatcher> brb
[20:11] <a|wen> Oceanwatcher: well ... according to the comments in the code it only supports xinerama
[20:14] <a|wen> Oceanwatcher: but everything should be changeable using the "screen & orientation" one ... choosing resolutions and choosing the left/right/above/below
[20:14] <Oceanwatcher> a|wen: True. As long as it exists... :-)
[20:15] <a|wen> right ... it all boils down to the randr frontend being problematic
[20:21] <Oceanwatcher> a|wen: Sounds right. I don't have any experience in this. Are you able to get a message to the right people about what we have been doing here today?
[20:22] <Oceanwatcher> If anyone need to get in touch with me to try out something else, I am open to do that.
[20:22] <a|wen> Oceanwatcher: we'll have kde 4.2.3 up for testing shortly ... would be nice to know if something has been changed there
[20:24] <Oceanwatcher> Shure. I can test it on the server. Just let me know how to do that. Is there a way for me to send my e-mail address to you without it being broadcasted or logged somewhere? (getting enough spam already...)
[20:26] <a|wen> ~andreas-wenning on launchpad ... should be a send message option
[20:27] <xerosis> I don't know if it helps but I can only get my dual screen working with the gnome version of the screen tools, not the kde ones
[20:28] <a|wen> xerosis: on jaunty?
[20:28] <xerosis> a|wen: yeah
[20:28] <a|wen> xerosis: which type video card?
[20:29] <xerosis> a|wen: intel
[20:29] <a|wen> okay ... seems that there is something wrong with the randr frontend in kde4.2
[20:30] <xerosis> I don't think mine has ever worked really well in either pre-jaunty though tbh, just thought it was odd that gnome can now
[20:32] <a|wen> xerosis: that was kde4.2 as well for the most part
[20:32] <a|wen> except right in the beginning
[20:33] <xerosis> by ever I mean like, for a few years so it's not just 4.2, though I don't doubt something's wrong
[20:33] <a|wen> it seemed to have worked in intrepid
[20:35] <xerosis> I'm not sure if I'm a useful comparison then, I've got one of those horrible mini-dvi out ports
[20:43] <Oceanwatcher> a|wen: E-post er avsendt :-)
[20:44] <a|wen> one from the other side of the water?
[21:11] <drostie> just as I'm composing this post -- are there any plans for packaging Qt 4.5.1 that I should know about? I doubt it fixes the bug I'm working on, but it'd be nice to report it.
[21:15] <a|wen> drostie: it is not in karmic yet; i don't actually know what the plans are for Qt in the very near future
[21:16] <drostie> okay; I'll just say "I don't know; I'm not really a dev" and hope they'll take it at that.
[21:16] <a|wen> you can always hope
[21:17] <ScottK> It's in Debian, so we can merge from there.
[21:17] <ScottK> It won't go into Jaunty.
[21:17] <drostie> ah, k. thanks!
[21:19] <a|wen> ScottK: ah, nice ... back on the merging track
[21:20] <ScottK> a|wen: No reason not to since they uploaded it first.  Also they just uploaded a -2, so I'm guessing they've got some lessons learned already.
[21:20] <a|wen> ScottK: of course ... i see it completely as positive as well
[21:21] <a|wen> ScottK: have you seen todays blogpost about notifications in 4.3?
[21:21] <ScottK> With the crappy hotel internet I have this week, I'm definitely not the one doing the uploading, however.
[21:21] <ScottK> a|wen: I did.  I thought it was very interesting.
[21:22] <ScottK> All the more reason certain people ought to keep their hands off of them.
[21:22] <a|wen> it looked very nice from the descriptions; very well thought through ... being useful without getting in the way
[21:22] <ScottK> Yep.
[21:24] <a|wen> yeah ... there is really no reason to interfere there (degrade things)
[21:26] <ghostcube_> O/
[21:35] <JontheEchidna> Qt 4.5.1 for karmic is coming; Riddell's talking with debian about some phonon stuff before it gets uploaded tho
[21:37] <a|wen> ahh, that's right
[21:43] <Oceanwatcher> a|wen: Definitely. In many senses :-)
[21:51] <Oceanwatcher> a|wen: Do you know anyone working on the addressbook? There is a bug in there that has already been fixed in KDE, but it has not been put into Kubuntu yet. Someone from KDE said it only concerns 4 files, so it would be nice to get it out as a bugfix...
[21:52] <Oceanwatcher> a|wen: Check http://forum.kde.org/kontact-kaddressbook-shows-annoying-email-popup-t-46600.html
[21:52] <ghostcube> http://www.yofrankie.org/  oo
[21:52] <a|wen> Oceanwatcher: jup ... it is included in the kde 4.2.3 update
[21:59] <Oceanwatcher> a|wen: Hmm.. That one is the one coming in October, right?
[21:59] <a|wen> Oceanwatcher: hopefully not ... official release tuesday this week
[22:00] <Oceanwatcher> a|wen: Hehe.. Sounds like tomorrow is going to be a great day!!
[22:01] <Oceanwatcher> a|wen: How long do you think it will take from the official KDE release until we see it in Kubuntu?
[22:02] <a|wen> Oceanwatcher: it will start by going to a PPA for initial testing (you are welcome to join in that) ... and after that jaunty-proposed and then -updates
[22:03] <Oceanwatcher> Ok. Would you be so kind to send me an e-mail on how to get into the ppa testing?
[22:05] <a|wen> Oceanwatcher: watch the kubuntu website over the next day :)
[22:05] <a|wen> i'm pretty sure it will be announced there
[22:13] <a|wen> s/day/days/
[22:18] <Oceanwatcher> a|wen :-) Cool.
[22:20] <a|wen> seele: suggestion: "negative" playlist filters in amarok ... we need to be able to say: random playlist where title does not contain "christmas" :)
[22:22] <Oceanwatcher> a|wen: Maybe you know Amarok too... I have been searching for a modifyer key so that when I double click a song in the local media, the song starts playing immediately. I like clicking around in my library to check out stuff, not necessarily to add them to the playlist...
[22:25] <a|wen> Oceanwatcher: haven't found it...
[22:27] <Oceanwatcher> a|wen: Ok. I will get out of the way now. It has been a pleasure chatting with you. I can only hope that we are a little closer to getting the dual monitor problem fixed :-) If there is anything more I can do, just send me a mail or ping me when you see me here.
[22:29] <a|wen> Oceanwatcher: at least we got it narrowed down to in which area the problem is ... i'll keep an close eye on how things progress with dual monitors, and see what i can do; and i'll ping you, when i need some testing
[22:30] <Oceanwatcher> a|wen: Thank you.