/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2009/05/04/#ubuntu-doc.txt

pace_t_zuluany Documentation Team members around? I need some help with how to appropriately fix a page that i have been working on00:02
Shane_Faganpace_t_zulu: Put it in a bug report and they will get around to it eventually00:03
pace_t_zuluShane_Fagan: no bug report necessary00:03
Shane_FaganAh00:03
pace_t_zuluit is a wiki page00:03
pace_t_zulufor nonfree software00:03
pace_t_zuluit was just really out of date00:04
Shane_FaganWhat do you want to do?00:04
Shane_FaganIf you want to make it more up to date change it.00:05
pace_t_zuluwell there are instructions for older versions00:07
pace_t_zulushould i create a subpage for each version?00:07
nhandlerjjesse: Yeah, I probably won't be able ot meet up with you. I wish you had been here for our release party the other week00:07
Shane_Faganpace_t_zulu: I dont think so just put the instructions under headings for each version id say00:08
Shane_FaganGive me the url of the page00:09
pace_t_zuluShane_Fagan: thank you ... will do00:09
pace_t_zuluhttp://help.ubuntu.com/community/MATLAB00:09
Shane_Faganpace_t_zulu: That page really needs a clean up too00:10
pace_t_zuluShane_Fagan: that's what i am working on00:10
Shane_Faganpace_t_zulu: good then00:11
Shane_FaganThanks for your contribution00:11
pace_t_zuluShane_Fagan: i think i am going to be removing pretty much all the old stuff since it is quite irrelavent00:11
Shane_FaganThats very good.00:12
pace_t_zulushould i be removing CategoryScience?00:14
pace_t_zuluShane_Fagan: should i remove CategoryScience?00:15
DougieRichardsonpace_t_zulu: No please leave it just now00:16
pace_t_zuluShane_Fagan and DougieRichardson do you guys mind taking a look at http://help.ubuntu.com/community/MATLAB and let me know if it is acceptable for now?00:21
Shane_Faganpace_t_zulu: Sure ill have a look00:22
pace_t_zuluif it's not ok... please let me know what i may be doing wrong00:22
pace_t_zuluand i have two old pages that just redirect to newer pages right now... they need to be deleted00:24
DougieRichardsonok wait one00:24
Shane_Faganpace_t_zulu: It looks a lot cleaner and has the most recent install info which is good.00:25
DougieRichardsonI'm not sure about the entry saying to use octave their pretty different and it sounds a little preachy00:25
Shane_FaganI agree00:26
pace_t_zuluDougieRichardson: i agree... that was there before... thought it might be encouraged00:26
pace_t_zuluDougieRichardson: been wanting to remove that for a while00:26
DougieRichardsonotherwise its good, if there's deletions you need to nominate them by adding tags to those page00:26
DougieRichardsonpace_t_zulu:yeah bin it its tonk00:27
pace_t_zului will remove the content cleanup tag for now00:27
pace_t_zulu! tonk00:28
ubot4`Factoid 'tonk' not found00:28
DougieRichardsontonk - not very good00:35
pace_t_zulubin?00:36
DougieRichardsonget rid00:36
pace_t_zuluhaha...00:36
pace_t_zulujust wasn't sure if there was some sort of doc lingo i wasn't yet tuned into00:36
pace_t_zuluDougieRichardson: so i have these other two pages that just serve as redirects right now... because i originally named them with improper capitalization00:37
DougieRichardsonyep - nominate them for deletion.00:40
DougieRichardsonsorry playing cod5 as well00:40
Shane_FaganNazi zombies is great00:42
pace_t_zuluDougieRichardson: no worries00:42
pace_t_zuluDougieRichardson: how do i nominate for deletion?00:42
pace_t_zuluDougieRichardson: apologies for my naivete00:42
Shane_Faganpace_t_zulu: Ah everyone needs help when they are starting out. I started yesterday myself.00:43
pace_t_zuluShane_Fagan: cool00:44
pace_t_zuluShane_Fagan: do you know how to nominate for deletion?00:44
Shane_FaganDont have a clue00:44
Rocket2DMnpace_t_zulu, you can use the Preview button to see your changes, without having to submit lots of really tiny changes to a page00:47
pace_t_zuluRocket2DMn: thank you00:47
Rocket2DMnwhen you do the latter, you generate a lot of email, and it isnt really a good way to go about editing00:47
Rocket2DMnjust FYI :)00:47
pace_t_zuluRocket2DMn: do you know how to nominate a page for deletion?00:47
Rocket2DMnyou can add the Deletion tag - https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Tag00:48
pace_t_zuluRocket2DMn: I didn't realize saving changes to a page generated email... apologies for spamming everyone here00:48
Rocket2DMnor you can tell me right now and i'll delete them00:48
Shane_Faganpace_t_zulu:  Do you mean a section for deletion or the entire page?00:48
pace_t_zuluhttp://help.ubuntu.com/community/webkit and http://help.ubuntu.com/community/chromium00:48
pace_t_zuluRocket2DMn: they are just redirects now00:49
pace_t_zuluShane_Fagan: entire page00:49
Rocket2DMnthat first page you linked me to doesnt exist00:49
pace_t_zuluRocket2DMn: sorry http://help.ubuntu.com/community/webkitgtk00:50
Rocket2DMnok, the pages are deleted00:52
pace_t_zuluRocket2DMn: thank you00:52
Rocket2DMnno problem00:52
DougieRichardsoncheers rocket2dmn00:55
Rocket2DMn:)00:56
pace_t_zuluis my documentation on http://help.ubuntu.com/community/WebKit and http://help.ubuntu.com/community/Chromium up to standards?00:57
Rocket2DMnpace_t_zulu, those pages look very nice01:01
Rocket2DMnIs webkit not in the Ubuntu repositories?  I'm pretty sure Chromium is01:01
pace_t_zuluRocket2DMn: thank you, i made those two from scratch01:01
pace_t_zuluRocket2DMn: webkit is... i don't think chromium is (still a ppa)...01:02
pace_t_zuluRocket2DMn: i made the page for developers interested in getting and building the code themselves01:02
pace_t_zuluRocket2DMn: it makes sense for WebKit... and chromium right now until there is a real linux release01:03
Rocket2DMnWe always support programs using the Ubuntu repositories.  It's OK to document how to install from source, but you should always first explain how to do it the "Ubuntu way", which is from the repositories01:04
Rocket2DMnIn this way, Ubuntu can support the program, and offer updates and whatnot01:04
Rocket2DMnI see that there is a program called Chromium in the repositories, it is a videogame01:05
Shane_FaganRocket2DMn: Im sure they will just rename it "google-chrome" or "Google-Chromium" when they put it in the repo01:06
Rocket2DMnChromium is the same thing as Google's Chrome?01:07
Shane_FaganChromium is the backend engine01:07
Rocket2DMnah, i see, we should probably specify on the page exactly what is being talked about01:08
Shane_FaganYep I think we should01:08
Rocket2DMnshould we rename the page?01:08
Shane_FaganDont know01:08
Rocket2DMnI think we probably should, so as not to confuse user's with the current program in the repos called Chromium01:09
pace_t_zuluRocket2DMn: Chromium is the name of the project that produces Chrome01:09
Shane_Faganyep "Google-Chromium"?01:09
Rocket2DMnShane_Fagan, the proper naming convention on the wiki would just be GoogleChromium01:10
Rocket2DMnI assume that Chromium is also produced by google?01:10
Shane_FaganYep01:10
Rocket2DMnpace_t_zulu, what do you think01:11
pace_t_zuluRocket2DMn: "Chromium is the open-source project behind Google Chrome. We're releasing a first look at Chromium and invite you to join us in our effort to:"01:11
pace_t_zulufrom their page01:11
pace_t_zuluRocket2DMn: should there be separate wiki's for dev's and end users?01:11
pace_t_zuluRocket2DMn: http://code.google.com/chromium/01:12
Rocket2DMnpace_t_zulu, Ubuntu's team wiki as at wiki.ubuntu.com01:12
pace_t_zuluRocket2DMn: I don't think chromium is google branded01:12
Rocket2DMnYeah, I'm not seeing the branding anywhere01:13
pace_t_zuluRocket2DMn: Chrome is, however, google branded01:13
pace_t_zuluRocket2DMn: the chromium game in the repos will need consideration at some point01:13
Shane_Fagant01:13
Shane_FaganIt isnt google branded because its just the backend01:13
Rocket2DMnmaybe the page should be called ChromiumBrowser?01:14
Shane_FaganChromiumBrowser would be good01:14
pace_t_zuluRocket2DMn: how relevant is this chromium game though?01:14
Rocket2DMnidk pace_t_zulu , i've never used it, but it already holds a spot in the repos01:14
Rocket2DMnhey look here - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Chromium/Build01:15
pace_t_zulubecause Chromium is as much a browser as WebKit is a browser ... it really isn't01:15
Rocket2DMnyeah i understand pace_t_zulu01:15
Rocket2DMntheir website refers to it as a browser project though01:15
pace_t_zuluRocket2DMn: i defer to your experience... i am not going to get picky about this01:16
Rocket2DMnon LP, it is called chromium-browser01:16
pace_t_zuluso http://help.ubuntu.com/community/ChromiumBrowser01:16
Shane_FaganWell I was looking around for Chromium the game and it doesnt seem to be too used01:16
Rocket2DMnyeah Shane_Fagan , i agree, it doesn't have any mention on the community docs (yet).  This discussion would be much simpler if we actually knew that the name of the project would be if it were in the repos01:17
Shane_FaganYep I think for now just rename it ChromiumBrowser01:18
Shane_FaganIt looks like a cool game though really bad website lol01:18
pace_t_zuluso should i create a new page and copy the contents on the current one over?01:19
Rocket2DMnbefore we rename anything, we need to figure out if the page is relevant, since https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Chromium/Build already exists01:19
Rocket2DMnand apparently the guys who run the ppa use that01:19
pace_t_zuluRocket2DMn: that page is hard to find01:19
pace_t_zului never found it searching... how did you find it?01:19
Rocket2DMnon google, i ran "site:wiki.ubuntu.com chromium"01:20
pace_t_zuluok01:20
pace_t_zuluthat isn't too obvious to most users01:20
pace_t_zului should have thought of it though since i know about it01:20
Rocket2DMnwelcome to documentation :)01:21
pace_t_zuluthe average user might google "chromium ubuntu" to figure out how to get chromium on ubuntu01:21
Rocket2DMni agree pace_t_zulu01:21
Shane_FaganDitto01:21
Rocket2DMnwell pace_t_zulu , depending on how far you want to pursue this, you could contact Fabien Tassin, he is the one running the ppa and maintaining the wiki page01:22
Rocket2DMnhttps://launchpad.net/~fta01:22
Rocket2DMni see you had a discussion in the devel channel a bit ago about this01:23
Shane_FaganIt has to be noted that there are already loads of pages on how to install chromium on ubuntu01:24
pace_t_zuluShane_Fagan: there are a lot of discrepencies01:24
pace_t_zuluShane_Fagan: many of them involve Wine01:24
Shane_FaganAh I understand01:25
Rocket2DMnpace_t_zulu, i would get in contact with fta.  if you have stuff on your h.u.c page that you think should be included on the w.u.c page, you can let him know01:26
Rocket2DMnI think a redirect should be set from the page you created to the original page on w.u.c01:26
pace_t_zuluRocket2DMn: roger :(01:27
Rocket2DMnpace_t_zulu, do you do development stuff for chromium?01:27
Rocket2DMnthey have a LP team - https://launchpad.net/~chromium-team01:27
pace_t_zuluRocket2DMn: i have been unable to build on Ubuntu so far... linking fails01:27
Rocket2DMnas well as a bunch of related projects01:27
pace_t_zuluRocket2DMn: have had no trouble with it on Mac OS X01:28
Rocket2DMnpace_t_zulu, i'm not meaning to trod on the work you've done.  The page looks very nice, it's just that somebody else beat you to it01:28
Rocket2DMnand they are already wel established01:28
Rocket2DMnI'm just trying to direct you to the existing resources and contacts so you can get involved if you want01:29
pace_t_zuluRocket2DMn: i understand this01:29
pace_t_zuluRocket2DMn: i am just trying to help any way i can01:29
pace_t_zuluRocket2DMn: I couldn't find decent chromium browser stuff for ubuntu when i started... but you are definitely right01:30
Rocket2DMnwell pace_t_zulu , fta isn't online right now, but Alexander Sack is in #ubuntu-devel, uesrname "asac"01:30
pace_t_zuluRocket2DMn: i forget the redirect page01:30
Rocket2DMnhttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/Chromium/Build01:30
pace_t_zuluRocket2DMn: sorry, i meant i forget the redirect markup01:31
Rocket2DMnhttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpOnProcessingInstructions01:31
Rocket2DMnyou will need to use #REFRESH <time> URL01:31
Rocket2DMn#REDIRECT only works for other wiki pages on the same wiki01:31
pace_t_zuluroger01:32
Rocket2DMnI'd remove the content of the h.u.c page, and set #REFRESH 2 https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Chromium/Build01:32
pace_t_zului will leave those instructions there for now in case they can be carried over... the #REFRESH will make sure they are not seen01:32
pace_t_zuluRocket2DMn: ok... i'll remove the content then01:32
Rocket2DMnthey will be shown with refresh01:32
pace_t_zuluwhat about a #REFRESH 001:33
pace_t_zulu?01:33
Rocket2DMnyou can always look at older versions of the page, set the refresh and i'll show you after01:33
Rocket2DMni'd do refresh 1 so it gives you time to abort the redirect if you want01:33
Rocket2DMnwe've had problems in the past with refresh 0 blocking you out of editing the page01:33
pace_t_zuluchanged it to 101:35
pace_t_zuluhow do i look at older versions?01:36
Rocket2DMngo to Page History at the bottom01:36
Shane_FaganCan someone commit my patch   http://launchpadlibrarian.net/26280252/ubuntu-karmic.diff    its for Bug #37119001:36
ubot4`Launchpad bug 371190 in ubuntu-docs "Rhythmbox has a tag editor musicvideophotos/c/music.xml  line 58" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/37119001:36
Rocket2DMnthen you can click View along the right side to see an older snapshot of the page01:36
Rocket2DMnpace_t_zulu, for instance - https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Chromium?action=recall&rev=2001:36
DougieRichardsonshane_fagan: its on my workflow, i'll get to it01:37
Shane_FaganDougieRichardson: Thanks I just branched and didnt see it01:37
Shane_FaganSo I thought id ask01:37
pace_t_zuluRocket2DMn: thanks for your help... i have to get going... once again i didn't mean to be spamming everyone with my changes01:37
Rocket2DMnno problem pace_t_zulu , here to help01:38
Rocket2DMntake it easy man01:38
DougieRichardsonshane_fagan: i tend to commit groups of patches this early in the release cycle to cut down on mail traffic01:38
pace_t_zuluy'all have a good night... maybe i'll be on later01:38
jgoguencan someone please review http://launchpadlibrarian.net/26295253/bug352934_add_reboot_note.patch for bug 35293401:40
ubot4`Launchpad bug 352934 in ubuntu-docs "Reboot needed after domainjoin before login into Gnome as a domain user" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/35293401:40
Shane_FaganDougieRichardson: Ah I understand and plus do you commit a load of changes in one go to cut down too?01:40
DougieRichardsonshane_fagan:yes01:41
Shane_FaganAh I understand I just want to get a feel for the process behind changes01:41
Rocket2DMnI'm also learning system docs01:45
Rocket2DMnspeaking of which, nhandler , you around?01:46
Rocket2DMnnvm nhandler , we'll do bzr later :)01:51
nhandlerlol Rocket2DMn02:10
=== Guest4001 is now known as christian85
NMR_1122Hi, I've found a typo in https://help.ubuntu.com/8.10/serverguide/C/samba-dc.html15:49
NMR_1122Is anyone here?15:54
sommerNMR_1122: is the typo in the latest version: https://help.ubuntu.com/9.04/serverguide/C/samba-dc.html16:02
NMR_1122yes16:13
NMR_1122In the section "Primary Domain Controller" step three:16:13
NMR_1122add machine script = sudo /usr/sbin/useradd -n -g machines -c Machine -d /var/lib/samba -s /bin/false %u16:14
NMR_1122the "n" should be a capital "N"16:14
sommerah, can you file a bug against ubuntu-docs for that?16:16
NMR_1122I'm not sure how/where to do that?16:17
Shane_FaganYou can file the bug but it will only get fixed in karmic16:18
Shane_FaganAnd the online docs16:19
NMR_1122I just wanted to bring it to someone's attention so the next guy doesn't have to pull his hair out trying to figure out why the Windows computer's won't join the domain....16:21
NMR_1122But I don't know who or what to report it to?16:22
Shane_Faganhttps://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-docs16:22
Shane_FaganSet up an account and report it there16:23
Shane_FaganWe will take it from there16:23
philip_launchpad requires user accounts to submit bugs?16:33
Shane_FaganYep16:34
philip_is the reason documented or discussed somewhere? because i'm of the group that feels no barriers should exist for bug submissions16:36
Shane_FaganWell I think its better to have a user account because the person fixing the bug may need extra info.16:37
persiaphilip_, It's been discussed on and off since Ubuntu switched to Launchpad for bugs.  You probably want to chase it in #launchpad, as it's mostly about launchpad not being writable without login, rather than anything in Ubuntu.16:38
philip_i see, thanks16:38
pace_t_zuluhttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto is outdated21:19
pace_t_zuluhttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto is outdated21:47
Shane_FaganWhats outdated about it?21:48
pace_t_zuluShane_Fagan: it has references to feisty and hardy... specifically the "Speeding up build-dependency calculation" is now irrelevant because $CHROOTEXEC in "/usr/lib/pbuilder/pbuilder-satisfydepends-gdebi" is already "$CHROOTEXEC /usr/bin/apt-get install -y --force-yes $INSTALL"21:55
Shane_FaganAh so change it I suppose22:02
pace_t_zuluShane_Fagan: what do you think i should do regarding older versions?22:08
pace_t_zuluShane_Fagan: because i am running jaunty22:08
pace_t_zuluShane_Fagan: for example, someone running an LTS may be using pbuilder22:08
Shane_FaganWell if they are for unsupported releases 7.10 or earlier then remove them.22:09
Shane_FaganSo leave 8.04 and 8.10 and make one for 9.04 if its needed22:10
Shane_FaganDo we really need the instructions for older versions of songbird? https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Songbird22:19
Shane_FaganSo should I remove the older versions?22:22
Shane_FaganI found a newer version to add as well sorry for the spam22:33
Rocket2DMnYou should keep any documentation relevant to supported versions of Ubuntu22:36
Rocket2DMncurrently: Dapper, Hardy, Intrepid, Jaunty22:36
Rocket2DMnanything specific to unsupported versions only can go22:36
Shane_FaganI just removed all the older versions and put in the new one22:39
persiaShane_Fagan, Do be sure to try to cover all of Dapper, Hardy, Intrepid and Jaunty.  There are still a lot of Dapper users.22:40
Shane_FaganI just linked to the songbird download on getdeb.net22:40
Rocket2DMnin cases where old LTS versions (like Dapper) differ significantly from currently supported versions, I usually move the docuemntation for it to a subpage22:41
persiaThat's definitely not the right answer.22:41
Rocket2DMnfor instance: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Repositories/Ubuntu/Dapper22:41
persiagetdeb is external to Ubnutu, and very much unsupported.22:41
Shane_FaganThe original help section had the download from getdeb and it isnt in the repository22:42
persiaStill!  I thought that was sorted in intrepid.  Oh well.22:42
Shane_FaganNope it is still very unstable22:43
Shane_Faganpersia: There wouldnt be much point in having a help page if it was in the repo22:45
persiaWell, depends.  Some stuff deserves extra documentation even when it is in the repo.22:45
Shane_FaganSure I understand that22:47

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