[00:02] <pace_t_zulu> any Documentation Team members around? I need some help with how to appropriately fix a page that i have been working on
[00:03] <Shane_Fagan> pace_t_zulu: Put it in a bug report and they will get around to it eventually
[00:03] <pace_t_zulu> Shane_Fagan: no bug report necessary
[00:03] <Shane_Fagan> Ah
[00:03] <pace_t_zulu> it is a wiki page
[00:03] <pace_t_zulu> for nonfree software
[00:04] <pace_t_zulu> it was just really out of date
[00:04] <Shane_Fagan> What do you want to do?
[00:05] <Shane_Fagan> If you want to make it more up to date change it.
[00:07] <pace_t_zulu> well there are instructions for older versions
[00:07] <pace_t_zulu> should i create a subpage for each version?
[00:07] <nhandler> jjesse: Yeah, I probably won't be able ot meet up with you. I wish you had been here for our release party the other week
[00:08] <Shane_Fagan> pace_t_zulu: I dont think so just put the instructions under headings for each version id say
[00:09] <Shane_Fagan> Give me the url of the page
[00:09] <pace_t_zulu> Shane_Fagan: thank you ... will do
[00:09] <pace_t_zulu> http://help.ubuntu.com/community/MATLAB
[00:10] <Shane_Fagan> pace_t_zulu: That page really needs a clean up too
[00:10] <pace_t_zulu> Shane_Fagan: that's what i am working on
[00:11] <Shane_Fagan> pace_t_zulu: good then
[00:11] <Shane_Fagan> Thanks for your contribution
[00:11] <pace_t_zulu> Shane_Fagan: i think i am going to be removing pretty much all the old stuff since it is quite irrelavent
[00:12] <Shane_Fagan> Thats very good.
[00:14] <pace_t_zulu> should i be removing CategoryScience?
[00:15] <pace_t_zulu> Shane_Fagan: should i remove CategoryScience?
[00:16] <DougieRichardson> pace_t_zulu: No please leave it just now
[00:21] <pace_t_zulu> Shane_Fagan and DougieRichardson do you guys mind taking a look at http://help.ubuntu.com/community/MATLAB and let me know if it is acceptable for now?
[00:22] <Shane_Fagan> pace_t_zulu: Sure ill have a look
[00:22] <pace_t_zulu> if it's not ok... please let me know what i may be doing wrong
[00:24] <pace_t_zulu> and i have two old pages that just redirect to newer pages right now... they need to be deleted
[00:24] <DougieRichardson> ok wait one
[00:25] <Shane_Fagan> pace_t_zulu: It looks a lot cleaner and has the most recent install info which is good.
[00:25] <DougieRichardson> I'm not sure about the entry saying to use octave their pretty different and it sounds a little preachy
[00:26] <Shane_Fagan> I agree
[00:26] <pace_t_zulu> DougieRichardson: i agree... that was there before... thought it might be encouraged
[00:26] <pace_t_zulu> DougieRichardson: been wanting to remove that for a while
[00:26] <DougieRichardson> otherwise its good, if there's deletions you need to nominate them by adding tags to those page
[00:27] <DougieRichardson> pace_t_zulu:yeah bin it its tonk
[00:27] <pace_t_zulu> i will remove the content cleanup tag for now
[00:28] <pace_t_zulu> ! tonk
[00:28] <ubot4`> Factoid 'tonk' not found
[00:35] <DougieRichardson> tonk - not very good
[00:36] <pace_t_zulu> bin?
[00:36] <DougieRichardson> get rid
[00:36] <pace_t_zulu> haha...
[00:36] <pace_t_zulu> just wasn't sure if there was some sort of doc lingo i wasn't yet tuned into
[00:37] <pace_t_zulu> DougieRichardson: so i have these other two pages that just serve as redirects right now... because i originally named them with improper capitalization
[00:40] <DougieRichardson> yep - nominate them for deletion.
[00:40] <DougieRichardson> sorry playing cod5 as well
[00:42] <Shane_Fagan> Nazi zombies is great
[00:42] <pace_t_zulu> DougieRichardson: no worries
[00:42] <pace_t_zulu> DougieRichardson: how do i nominate for deletion?
[00:42] <pace_t_zulu> DougieRichardson: apologies for my naivete
[00:43] <Shane_Fagan> pace_t_zulu: Ah everyone needs help when they are starting out. I started yesterday myself.
[00:44] <pace_t_zulu> Shane_Fagan: cool
[00:44] <pace_t_zulu> Shane_Fagan: do you know how to nominate for deletion?
[00:44] <Shane_Fagan> Dont have a clue
[00:47] <Rocket2DMn> pace_t_zulu, you can use the Preview button to see your changes, without having to submit lots of really tiny changes to a page
[00:47] <pace_t_zulu> Rocket2DMn: thank you
[00:47] <Rocket2DMn> when you do the latter, you generate a lot of email, and it isnt really a good way to go about editing
[00:47] <Rocket2DMn> just FYI :)
[00:47] <pace_t_zulu> Rocket2DMn: do you know how to nominate a page for deletion?
[00:48] <Rocket2DMn> you can add the Deletion tag - https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Tag
[00:48] <pace_t_zulu> Rocket2DMn: I didn't realize saving changes to a page generated email... apologies for spamming everyone here
[00:48] <Rocket2DMn> or you can tell me right now and i'll delete them
[00:48] <Shane_Fagan> pace_t_zulu:  Do you mean a section for deletion or the entire page?
[00:48] <pace_t_zulu> http://help.ubuntu.com/community/webkit and http://help.ubuntu.com/community/chromium
[00:49] <pace_t_zulu> Rocket2DMn: they are just redirects now
[00:49] <pace_t_zulu> Shane_Fagan: entire page
[00:49] <Rocket2DMn> that first page you linked me to doesnt exist
[00:50] <pace_t_zulu> Rocket2DMn: sorry http://help.ubuntu.com/community/webkitgtk
[00:52] <Rocket2DMn> ok, the pages are deleted
[00:52] <pace_t_zulu> Rocket2DMn: thank you
[00:52] <Rocket2DMn> no problem
[00:55] <DougieRichardson> cheers rocket2dmn
[00:56] <Rocket2DMn> :)
[00:57] <pace_t_zulu> is my documentation on http://help.ubuntu.com/community/WebKit and http://help.ubuntu.com/community/Chromium up to standards?
[01:01] <Rocket2DMn> pace_t_zulu, those pages look very nice
[01:01] <Rocket2DMn> Is webkit not in the Ubuntu repositories?  I'm pretty sure Chromium is
[01:01] <pace_t_zulu> Rocket2DMn: thank you, i made those two from scratch
[01:02] <pace_t_zulu> Rocket2DMn: webkit is... i don't think chromium is (still a ppa)...
[01:02] <pace_t_zulu> Rocket2DMn: i made the page for developers interested in getting and building the code themselves
[01:03] <pace_t_zulu> Rocket2DMn: it makes sense for WebKit... and chromium right now until there is a real linux release
[01:04] <Rocket2DMn> We always support programs using the Ubuntu repositories.  It's OK to document how to install from source, but you should always first explain how to do it the "Ubuntu way", which is from the repositories
[01:04] <Rocket2DMn> In this way, Ubuntu can support the program, and offer updates and whatnot
[01:05] <Rocket2DMn> I see that there is a program called Chromium in the repositories, it is a videogame
[01:06] <Shane_Fagan> Rocket2DMn: Im sure they will just rename it "google-chrome" or "Google-Chromium" when they put it in the repo
[01:07] <Rocket2DMn> Chromium is the same thing as Google's Chrome?
[01:07] <Shane_Fagan> Chromium is the backend engine
[01:08] <Rocket2DMn> ah, i see, we should probably specify on the page exactly what is being talked about
[01:08] <Shane_Fagan> Yep I think we should
[01:08] <Rocket2DMn> should we rename the page?
[01:08] <Shane_Fagan> Dont know
[01:09] <Rocket2DMn> I think we probably should, so as not to confuse user's with the current program in the repos called Chromium
[01:09] <pace_t_zulu> Rocket2DMn: Chromium is the name of the project that produces Chrome
[01:09] <Shane_Fagan> yep "Google-Chromium"?
[01:10] <Rocket2DMn> Shane_Fagan, the proper naming convention on the wiki would just be GoogleChromium
[01:10] <Rocket2DMn> I assume that Chromium is also produced by google?
[01:10] <Shane_Fagan> Yep
[01:11] <Rocket2DMn> pace_t_zulu, what do you think
[01:11] <pace_t_zulu> Rocket2DMn: "Chromium is the open-source project behind Google Chrome. We're releasing a first look at Chromium and invite you to join us in our effort to:"
[01:11] <pace_t_zulu> from their page
[01:11] <pace_t_zulu> Rocket2DMn: should there be separate wiki's for dev's and end users?
[01:12] <pace_t_zulu> Rocket2DMn: http://code.google.com/chromium/
[01:12] <Rocket2DMn> pace_t_zulu, Ubuntu's team wiki as at wiki.ubuntu.com
[01:12] <pace_t_zulu> Rocket2DMn: I don't think chromium is google branded
[01:13] <Rocket2DMn> Yeah, I'm not seeing the branding anywhere
[01:13] <pace_t_zulu> Rocket2DMn: Chrome is, however, google branded
[01:13] <pace_t_zulu> Rocket2DMn: the chromium game in the repos will need consideration at some point
[01:13] <Shane_Fagan> t
[01:13] <Shane_Fagan> It isnt google branded because its just the backend
[01:14] <Rocket2DMn> maybe the page should be called ChromiumBrowser?
[01:14] <Shane_Fagan> ChromiumBrowser would be good
[01:14] <pace_t_zulu> Rocket2DMn: how relevant is this chromium game though?
[01:14] <Rocket2DMn> idk pace_t_zulu , i've never used it, but it already holds a spot in the repos
[01:15] <Rocket2DMn> hey look here - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Chromium/Build
[01:15] <pace_t_zulu> because Chromium is as much a browser as WebKit is a browser ... it really isn't
[01:15] <Rocket2DMn> yeah i understand pace_t_zulu
[01:15] <Rocket2DMn> their website refers to it as a browser project though
[01:16] <pace_t_zulu> Rocket2DMn: i defer to your experience... i am not going to get picky about this
[01:16] <Rocket2DMn> on LP, it is called chromium-browser
[01:16] <pace_t_zulu> so http://help.ubuntu.com/community/ChromiumBrowser
[01:16] <Shane_Fagan> Well I was looking around for Chromium the game and it doesnt seem to be too used
[01:17] <Rocket2DMn> yeah Shane_Fagan , i agree, it doesn't have any mention on the community docs (yet).  This discussion would be much simpler if we actually knew that the name of the project would be if it were in the repos
[01:18] <Shane_Fagan> Yep I think for now just rename it ChromiumBrowser
[01:18] <Shane_Fagan> It looks like a cool game though really bad website lol
[01:19] <pace_t_zulu> so should i create a new page and copy the contents on the current one over?
[01:19] <Rocket2DMn> before we rename anything, we need to figure out if the page is relevant, since https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Chromium/Build already exists
[01:19] <Rocket2DMn> and apparently the guys who run the ppa use that
[01:19] <pace_t_zulu> Rocket2DMn: that page is hard to find
[01:19] <pace_t_zulu> i never found it searching... how did you find it?
[01:20] <Rocket2DMn> on google, i ran "site:wiki.ubuntu.com chromium"
[01:20] <pace_t_zulu> ok
[01:20] <pace_t_zulu> that isn't too obvious to most users
[01:20] <pace_t_zulu> i should have thought of it though since i know about it
[01:21] <Rocket2DMn> welcome to documentation :)
[01:21] <pace_t_zulu> the average user might google "chromium ubuntu" to figure out how to get chromium on ubuntu
[01:21] <Rocket2DMn> i agree pace_t_zulu
[01:21] <Shane_Fagan> Ditto
[01:22] <Rocket2DMn> well pace_t_zulu , depending on how far you want to pursue this, you could contact Fabien Tassin, he is the one running the ppa and maintaining the wiki page
[01:22] <Rocket2DMn> https://launchpad.net/~fta
[01:23] <Rocket2DMn> i see you had a discussion in the devel channel a bit ago about this
[01:24] <Shane_Fagan> It has to be noted that there are already loads of pages on how to install chromium on ubuntu
[01:24] <pace_t_zulu> Shane_Fagan: there are a lot of discrepencies
[01:24] <pace_t_zulu> Shane_Fagan: many of them involve Wine
[01:25] <Shane_Fagan> Ah I understand
[01:26] <Rocket2DMn> pace_t_zulu, i would get in contact with fta.  if you have stuff on your h.u.c page that you think should be included on the w.u.c page, you can let him know
[01:26] <Rocket2DMn> I think a redirect should be set from the page you created to the original page on w.u.c
[01:27] <pace_t_zulu> Rocket2DMn: roger :(
[01:27] <Rocket2DMn> pace_t_zulu, do you do development stuff for chromium?
[01:27] <Rocket2DMn> they have a LP team - https://launchpad.net/~chromium-team
[01:27] <pace_t_zulu> Rocket2DMn: i have been unable to build on Ubuntu so far... linking fails
[01:27] <Rocket2DMn> as well as a bunch of related projects
[01:28] <pace_t_zulu> Rocket2DMn: have had no trouble with it on Mac OS X
[01:28] <Rocket2DMn> pace_t_zulu, i'm not meaning to trod on the work you've done.  The page looks very nice, it's just that somebody else beat you to it
[01:28] <Rocket2DMn> and they are already wel established
[01:29] <Rocket2DMn> I'm just trying to direct you to the existing resources and contacts so you can get involved if you want
[01:29] <pace_t_zulu> Rocket2DMn: i understand this
[01:29] <pace_t_zulu> Rocket2DMn: i am just trying to help any way i can
[01:30] <pace_t_zulu> Rocket2DMn: I couldn't find decent chromium browser stuff for ubuntu when i started... but you are definitely right
[01:30] <Rocket2DMn> well pace_t_zulu , fta isn't online right now, but Alexander Sack is in #ubuntu-devel, uesrname "asac"
[01:30] <pace_t_zulu> Rocket2DMn: i forget the redirect page
[01:30] <Rocket2DMn> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Chromium/Build
[01:31] <pace_t_zulu> Rocket2DMn: sorry, i meant i forget the redirect markup
[01:31] <Rocket2DMn> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpOnProcessingInstructions
[01:31] <Rocket2DMn> you will need to use #REFRESH <time> URL
[01:31] <Rocket2DMn> #REDIRECT only works for other wiki pages on the same wiki
[01:32] <pace_t_zulu> roger
[01:32] <Rocket2DMn> I'd remove the content of the h.u.c page, and set #REFRESH 2 https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Chromium/Build
[01:32] <pace_t_zulu> i will leave those instructions there for now in case they can be carried over... the #REFRESH will make sure they are not seen
[01:32] <pace_t_zulu> Rocket2DMn: ok... i'll remove the content then
[01:32] <Rocket2DMn> they will be shown with refresh
[01:33] <pace_t_zulu> what about a #REFRESH 0
[01:33] <pace_t_zulu> ?
[01:33] <Rocket2DMn> you can always look at older versions of the page, set the refresh and i'll show you after
[01:33] <Rocket2DMn> i'd do refresh 1 so it gives you time to abort the redirect if you want
[01:33] <Rocket2DMn> we've had problems in the past with refresh 0 blocking you out of editing the page
[01:35] <pace_t_zulu> changed it to 1
[01:36] <pace_t_zulu> how do i look at older versions?
[01:36] <Rocket2DMn> go to Page History at the bottom
[01:36] <Shane_Fagan> Can someone commit my patch   http://launchpadlibrarian.net/26280252/ubuntu-karmic.diff    its for Bug #371190
[01:36] <ubot4`> Launchpad bug 371190 in ubuntu-docs "Rhythmbox has a tag editor musicvideophotos/c/music.xml  line 58" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/371190
[01:36] <Rocket2DMn> then you can click View along the right side to see an older snapshot of the page
[01:36] <Rocket2DMn> pace_t_zulu, for instance - https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Chromium?action=recall&rev=20
[01:37] <DougieRichardson> shane_fagan: its on my workflow, i'll get to it
[01:37] <Shane_Fagan> DougieRichardson: Thanks I just branched and didnt see it
[01:37] <Shane_Fagan> So I thought id ask
[01:37] <pace_t_zulu> Rocket2DMn: thanks for your help... i have to get going... once again i didn't mean to be spamming everyone with my changes
[01:38] <Rocket2DMn> no problem pace_t_zulu , here to help
[01:38] <Rocket2DMn> take it easy man
[01:38] <DougieRichardson> shane_fagan: i tend to commit groups of patches this early in the release cycle to cut down on mail traffic
[01:38] <pace_t_zulu> y'all have a good night... maybe i'll be on later
[01:40] <jgoguen> can someone please review http://launchpadlibrarian.net/26295253/bug352934_add_reboot_note.patch for bug 352934
[01:40] <ubot4`> Launchpad bug 352934 in ubuntu-docs "Reboot needed after domainjoin before login into Gnome as a domain user" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/352934
[01:40] <Shane_Fagan> DougieRichardson: Ah I understand and plus do you commit a load of changes in one go to cut down too?
[01:41] <DougieRichardson> shane_fagan:yes
[01:41] <Shane_Fagan> Ah I understand I just want to get a feel for the process behind changes
[01:45] <Rocket2DMn> I'm also learning system docs
[01:46] <Rocket2DMn> speaking of which, nhandler , you around?
[01:51] <Rocket2DMn> nvm nhandler , we'll do bzr later :)
[02:10] <nhandler> lol Rocket2DMn
[15:49] <NMR_1122> Hi, I've found a typo in https://help.ubuntu.com/8.10/serverguide/C/samba-dc.html
[15:54] <NMR_1122> Is anyone here?
[16:02] <sommer> NMR_1122: is the typo in the latest version: https://help.ubuntu.com/9.04/serverguide/C/samba-dc.html
[16:13] <NMR_1122> yes
[16:13] <NMR_1122> In the section "Primary Domain Controller" step three:
[16:14] <NMR_1122> add machine script = sudo /usr/sbin/useradd -n -g machines -c Machine -d /var/lib/samba -s /bin/false %u
[16:14] <NMR_1122> the "n" should be a capital "N"
[16:16] <sommer> ah, can you file a bug against ubuntu-docs for that?
[16:17] <NMR_1122> I'm not sure how/where to do that?
[16:18] <Shane_Fagan> You can file the bug but it will only get fixed in karmic
[16:19] <Shane_Fagan> And the online docs
[16:21] <NMR_1122> I just wanted to bring it to someone's attention so the next guy doesn't have to pull his hair out trying to figure out why the Windows computer's won't join the domain....
[16:22] <NMR_1122> But I don't know who or what to report it to?
[16:22] <Shane_Fagan> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-docs
[16:23] <Shane_Fagan> Set up an account and report it there
[16:23] <Shane_Fagan> We will take it from there
[16:33] <philip_> launchpad requires user accounts to submit bugs?
[16:34] <Shane_Fagan> Yep
[16:36] <philip_> is the reason documented or discussed somewhere? because i'm of the group that feels no barriers should exist for bug submissions
[16:37] <Shane_Fagan> Well I think its better to have a user account because the person fixing the bug may need extra info.
[16:38] <persia> philip_, It's been discussed on and off since Ubuntu switched to Launchpad for bugs.  You probably want to chase it in #launchpad, as it's mostly about launchpad not being writable without login, rather than anything in Ubuntu.
[16:38] <philip_> i see, thanks
[21:19] <pace_t_zulu> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto is outdated
[21:47] <pace_t_zulu> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto is outdated
[21:48] <Shane_Fagan> Whats outdated about it?
[21:55] <pace_t_zulu> Shane_Fagan: it has references to feisty and hardy... specifically the "Speeding up build-dependency calculation" is now irrelevant because $CHROOTEXEC in "/usr/lib/pbuilder/pbuilder-satisfydepends-gdebi" is already "$CHROOTEXEC /usr/bin/apt-get install -y --force-yes $INSTALL"
[22:02] <Shane_Fagan> Ah so change it I suppose
[22:08] <pace_t_zulu> Shane_Fagan: what do you think i should do regarding older versions?
[22:08] <pace_t_zulu> Shane_Fagan: because i am running jaunty
[22:08] <pace_t_zulu> Shane_Fagan: for example, someone running an LTS may be using pbuilder
[22:09] <Shane_Fagan> Well if they are for unsupported releases 7.10 or earlier then remove them.
[22:10] <Shane_Fagan> So leave 8.04 and 8.10 and make one for 9.04 if its needed
[22:19] <Shane_Fagan> Do we really need the instructions for older versions of songbird? https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Songbird
[22:22] <Shane_Fagan> So should I remove the older versions?
[22:33] <Shane_Fagan> I found a newer version to add as well sorry for the spam
[22:36] <Rocket2DMn> You should keep any documentation relevant to supported versions of Ubuntu
[22:36] <Rocket2DMn> currently: Dapper, Hardy, Intrepid, Jaunty
[22:36] <Rocket2DMn> anything specific to unsupported versions only can go
[22:39] <Shane_Fagan> I just removed all the older versions and put in the new one
[22:40] <persia> Shane_Fagan, Do be sure to try to cover all of Dapper, Hardy, Intrepid and Jaunty.  There are still a lot of Dapper users.
[22:40] <Shane_Fagan> I just linked to the songbird download on getdeb.net
[22:41] <Rocket2DMn> in cases where old LTS versions (like Dapper) differ significantly from currently supported versions, I usually move the docuemntation for it to a subpage
[22:41] <persia> That's definitely not the right answer.
[22:41] <Rocket2DMn> for instance: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Repositories/Ubuntu/Dapper
[22:41] <persia> getdeb is external to Ubnutu, and very much unsupported.
[22:42] <Shane_Fagan> The original help section had the download from getdeb and it isnt in the repository
[22:42] <persia> Still!  I thought that was sorted in intrepid.  Oh well.
[22:43] <Shane_Fagan> Nope it is still very unstable
[22:45] <Shane_Fagan> persia: There wouldnt be much point in having a help page if it was in the repo
[22:45] <persia> Well, depends.  Some stuff deserves extra documentation even when it is in the repo.
[22:47] <Shane_Fagan> Sure I understand that