[02:44] why does two weeks of writers block melt away right when I have to take care of my kids [02:44] curse you muse! === rickspencer3 is now known as rickspencer3-afk [04:36] Good day fellas.... [04:36] I need help with connecting my 1 TB hdd with my laptop using ubuntu. [04:37] Its failing after sometime, after writing around 58 M [04:37] I have the dmesg output with me and have already searched the net for any useful information, but didn't get any. [04:37] any help is much appreciated. [04:41] Mayuresh: you might have better luck in #ubuntu; this channel is a much more limited audience. I would suggest that you pastebin any relevant dmesg output first. see http://paste.ubuntu.com [04:44] Arrrrgh. Does anyone know how to get help support for Evolution? [04:44] It's freezing on opening. [04:48] mpontillo: Thanks. I'll also place this question at #ubuntu. In the mean time, I have pasted the output: http://paste.ubuntu.com/164643/ [07:33] Good morning [07:34] calc: pong [07:34] bryce: thanks, I processed it last night [07:38] pitti: hello === tkamppeter__ is now known as tkamppeter [07:48] robert_ancell: good morning, how are you? [07:49] pitti: good, trying to get the hang of karmic packaging. Is there anything different to do than a normal package update? [07:54] robert_ancell: not really, in what way? [07:54] karmic right now is in the "anything goes, break it" stage [07:55] pitti: In that I open a bug with the debdiff and subscribe the main sponsors? [07:58] robert_ancell: for a new upstream version it's better to attach the source package's diff.gz [07:58] robert_ancell: so that we don't have to wade through the upstream diff [07:58] pitti: do you need the orig.gz then? [07:59] robert_ancell: if a package is in bzr, just commit to the branch and ask us to upload it [07:59] robert_ancell: for GNOME packages we know where to get them from; for other packages, an URL to the orig.tar.gz is fine [07:59] pitti: and if it needed modification due to directory naming? [08:00] robert_ancell: a repacked orig? then please put it on your people.u.c. page or attach it === eeejay_givingup is now known as eeejay [08:06] pitti: when you merge a debian changelog with an ubuntu one do you keep all the entries? [08:06] robert_ancell: we usually do, although admittedly I "flush" them from time to time [08:06] since a merge requirement is to give a detailled list of remaining ubuntu changes [08:07] robert_ancell: oh, you are merging from Debian? [08:07] robert_ancell: wrt. orig.tar.gz, when Debian has it, we can get it from there [08:07] yes, ok [08:07] I'm working on avahi - I noticed you'd done that one previously [08:08] right [08:08] in my times I didn't need to repack the orig, though [08:08] When you say remaining ubuntu changes do you mean "any change from upstream" - as you listed the patches as provided by debian [08:08] and the patches that are obsolete - should I list them in the changelog? [08:09] robert_ancell: no, "ubuntu changes" are relative only to Debian for merging [08:09] ok, easy (in this case we have none) [08:09] robert_ancell: the patches shoudl usually document themselves, with https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/PatchTaggingGuidelines [08:09] robert_ancell: if we have zero changes, we can sync [08:10] pitti: most aren't. I have been tagging mine [08:10] robert_ancell: if our only remaining delta is the changelog, or some obsolete cruft, we sync [08:10] that's in fact the ideal case [08:10] ok, how do we trigger that then? avahi failed the automerge [08:10] once we have done our homework and pushed patches to upstream and packaging fixes to Debian, we are in sync and can stop maintaining a delta [08:11] robert_ancell: if you are sure that the remaining delta is zero, request a sync with https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SyncRequestProcess [08:12] in short, "requestsync avahi karmic" should do [08:12] pitti: ok, once the sync is complete and there are other changes should I push those to Debian so we keep the sync? [08:13] robert_ancell: "other changes" -> "future changes"? [08:13] yes (I don't want to sync then immediately fix a bug) [08:13] robert_ancell: yes, we should, if it's packaging related [08:13] code changes should better go into the upstream bug tracker [08:13] robert_ancell: well, syncing in between has the advantage to have a really clean slate again [08:13] sure === celthunds is now known as celthunder [08:30] pitti: again, when I look at glade it appears that should by synced too - is there anything special I should be looking out for in the debian/ directory? [08:30] hey robert_ancell [08:30] robert_ancell: did you get my email? [08:30] seb128: hey seb - you're giving me easy packages to merge again [08:31] is that ironic? ;-) [08:31] yes, as far as I can see both avahi and glade can be synced with debian [08:32] I didn't look at the diff but basically at the list of things not merged yet and picked some of your packages there [08:32] oh, that would be good ;-) [08:32] - debian/rules: Create an up to date PO template during build. [08:33] * Python 2.6 transition (fixes FTBFS) [08:33] those are in debian now? [08:33] the PO template thing is. [08:33] I'm a bit surprised since the po thing is specific to ubuntu for language packs and python2.6 is not used in debian yet that I know about [08:33] ok, no then I'm confused [08:33] ah good, somebody must have sent the change to lower the delta and they took it [08:35] robert_ancell: ok, you are right, pitti sent them the change and they applied it [08:35] robert_ancell: tomorrow you can do gdm which is a non trivial one ;-) [08:37] seb128: so what was the python 2.6 fix, I'm looking at the bug and the source but I can't see what it is. And if we merge do we use the builds from Debian or build them locally? [08:38] we grab the source from debian and upload that [08:38] it's built on ubuntu [08:38] robert_ancell: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/avahi [08:38] robert_ancell: you have the diff for each upload there [08:39] the change is basically site-packages -> *-packages [08:39] the python directory used in 2.6 changed [08:39] ok, I see now. So we can't sync because we need that change [08:40] right [08:40] but you can send the patch to debian [08:40] there is no reason they couldn't do that, that still work for site-package and they will get 2.6 too [08:40] so we can sync with there next upload [08:40] if you didn't oversight other changes too ;-) [08:42] robert_ancell: they don't have Keybuk's change either [08:43] 0.6.23-4ubuntu3 [08:45] robert_ancell: and they still enable ipv6 apparently that we don't [08:46] seb128: no, I've been sending POT creation patches to Debian for years [08:46] POT? [08:46] pitti: right, but they didn't take it until recently [08:46] robert_ancell: intltool-update call [08:47] pitti: it was still listed in the summary of changes when we rebased previous on debian [08:47] right [08:47] anyway there are the 3 others changes [08:47] python2.6 site-packages -> *-packages [08:47] runlevel [08:47] ipv6 [08:47] which still need to be applied [08:48] robert_ancell: you are looking at the current ubuntu patch that MoM creates? [08:48] I found those patches not practical when you have different versions [08:48] I love them [08:48] I usually diff the debian directories between current debian and ubuntu [08:49] I usually grab the Debian version and the current ubuntu patch, and then walk through teh Ubuntu patch and throw out the obsolete stuff [08:49] and then apply the rest [08:49] I'm not sure how to use MoM [08:49] I will let pitti explain since I don't use it [08:50] robert_ancell: I almost never take the automatic merge, since it's often unclean, and it can't check which changes aren't really required any more [08:50] pitti: where are the files that MoM generates? [08:50] robert_ancell: the only things I use from MoM are the current Ubuntu diff and the fact that a package needs merging (and by whom) [08:50] robert_ancell: https://merges.ubuntu.com/main.html -> click on package -> remove '/REPORT' from URL [08:51] oh [08:51] i. e. https://merges.ubuntu.com/a/avahi/avahi_0.6.23-4ubuntu4.patch is the current Ubuntu patch [08:52] the package names should rather point to the directory than to REPORT [08:52] I find myself removing the REPORT every time and wondering why it's the default [08:52] * pitti too [08:52] you can easily click on it and back to go back to the directory [08:53] another question: debian bumped the soname from 5 to 6 when they went from 0.6.23 to 0.6.24, any idea why? [08:53] ugh [08:53] because the library soname changed? [08:54] that's an upstream thing usually [08:54] libraries are name libname.no.SONAME [08:54] where SONAME is a number [08:54] only two packages depend on libavahi-core5, so that transition is easy [08:54] when they break the compatibility in the abi they bump this number [08:54] so that doesn't break applications using the old abi [08:55] and you install the new abi next to it and start rebuilding things using this one [08:55] the package renaming is to allow installing both versions [08:55] and have a smooth transition [08:56] I personally use grab-merge and work based on this because it often has quite good results for me (checking the debdiff afterwards carefully of course) [08:57] I fail to see how that's better than a diff -Nru of the debian directories usually [08:57] you just lot of extra noises when the versions are not the same [08:57] mvo: it discourages you from actually checking which of our delta can be dropped, though [08:57] seb128: you don't get a three-way diff that way, though [08:58] i see. The avahi guys aren't keen on keeping ABI within minor releases. [08:58] pitti: not really, the debdiff of the merge (against the debian version) needs to be checked afterwards for this as well. but I guess the workflow is pretty equivalent in the end, just approaching it from different directions [08:58] * robert_ancell thinks the avahi package will take some more time [08:58] pitti: I find that not required in most cases, especially if your changelog has an accurate summary of changes from the previous merge already [08:59] anyway everybody has his own workflow ;-) [08:59] I'm just eager to drop delta [08:59] sure [08:59] one other thing I don't bother doing that quite some people do is to copy over old ubuntu changelog entries [09:00] same for me [09:00] if we have a good merge summary, it's just redundant [09:00] robert_ancell: see that was good that you had an easy one to start ;-) [09:00] I think old changelogs are often useful (and one of the things that you get with the merge from mom) [09:00] mvo: I summarize all those in the current entry [09:00] quicker to read than trying to go over all the old uploads [09:01] and that wins some CD space ;-) [09:01] especially for GNOME where we copy the NEWS each time [09:01] seb128: fair enough in case of NEWS I guess [09:01] seb128: you should *really* use Seb Bacher to save 6 bytes for each changelog record :-P [09:01] haha [09:01] * seb128 hugs pitti [09:02] lol [09:29] good day all! [09:29] (that was an inverted good night) [09:29] robert_ancell: enjoy the evening! [09:29] robert_ancell: good evening! [09:29] * crevette shouldn't do uplaod with its long name [09:29] :) [09:29] robert_ancell: or, rather: ʇɥƃıu pooƃ [09:50] morning everyone ! [09:51] lut huats [09:51] hello seb128 [09:52] huats: how are you? how is your business going? [09:52] seb128: I am fine [09:52] and I try to start the business [09:52] it is not that easy but I have some possibilities :) [09:53] I think I'll know more by the end of the month :) [09:53] well for the moment I am mainly focussing on putting together all the pieces [09:53] :) [09:55] ok, good luck [09:55] still as busy? [09:55] but still going to uds? [09:56] still going to th uds :of course seb128 [09:56] I am still busy [09:56] I'm wondering since you seem to not be around a lot recently [09:56] so I was wondering if you would still manage to get time for uds [09:56] In fact I am around but not chatting [09:56] :) [09:57] it is weird for someone as talkative than I am :) [09:57] lol [09:59] Need to logout [09:59] seb128: your X-GIO-NoFuse=true patch in f-spot, do you know whether that's reported upstream? [09:59] * pitti is tagging our patches [10:00] bug 338466 [10:00] Launchpad bug 338466 in f-spot "Fspot doesn't load pictures from my digital camera" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/338466 [10:00] pitti: I don't think I sent that upstream no because I was not sure that was the right way [10:01] ideally it could be using the fuse mount but for some reason that sloooow [10:01] probably because it generates thumbnails from the real pictures isntead of using the camera's thumbnails? [10:01] (that's what we had in gthumb) [10:02] could be [10:03] all our other patches are reported upstream now [10:03] (if only they'd apply them) [10:11] I hate the bugzilla.gnome.org slowness [10:13] the good thing is that it makes launchpad feel fast ;) [10:14] yeah [10:32] mvo: you are a vm user right? what do you recommend on jaunty to have something usable? ;-) [10:32] I use kvm -cdrom iso to boot live cds [10:32] and virt-manager for installs but virt-manager is the suck, mouse location keeps being wrong, it it doesn't go in some screen corners [10:34] seb128: if you move the mouse quite fast you can reach that corners [10:34] seb128: i am doing that all the time :) [10:34] huats: it's not fast, you need to go against the opposite border rather [10:34] yeah, me too, but that's annoying so I'm looking for better suggestions [10:35] yeah opposite AND going fast to the corner you want to reach :) [10:35] and something I could switch full screen too would be nice [10:35] * pitti just uses kvm in CLI mode [10:35] ok [10:35] kvm -m 512 -cdrom ubuntu.iso -hda testubuntu.img -boot d [10:35] pitti: is there some magic command to get an hdd in kvm so you can install something? ;-) [10:35] oh [10:35] easy enough [10:36] and testubuntu.img need to be created using some other tool? [10:36] seb128: -hda, -hdb, etc. -boot c -> boot from hd; -boot d -> boot from cdrom [10:36] seb128: you can use existing ones, or just dd if=/dev/zero one yourself [10:36] ok thanks [10:36] I'm pondering upgrading my laptop to karmic yet [10:36] I have a dd'ed 6 GB testubuntu.img which works just fine [10:36] or using a kvm install for now [10:37] I would like to get working beamer, suspend, etc for uds [10:37] seb128: with some tool you can even mount these images in your host system, for nice and easy file exchange [10:39] seb128: I just use plain kvm [10:39] pitti, mvo: ok thanks [10:39] I will use the office bandwith tomorrow to do karmic and debian unstable kvm images [10:40] seb128: hah, yay phat pipes [10:40] seb128: there is also ctrl-alt-f2 with kvm that gives you a useful console to do stuff [10:40] seb128: like sendkey ctrl-alt-f1 [10:40] ok thanks [10:40] seb128: if all else fails, I still have a jaunty install on my USB stick which I can boot, so I'm just using karmic [10:40] is there a way to put kvm in full screen? ;-) [10:40] seb128: or inject NMI (not that fullful ;) [10:41] pitti: I've upgraded my desktop but I tend to be a bit conservative with my laptop until uds [10:41] sounds fine [10:41] especially if you are still working on some SRUs [10:41] seb128: -full-screen [10:41] and usually it's useful for srus too [10:41] right [10:41] though I'm mostly done with srus for jaunty I think [10:41] seb128: I just have one computer, so I need to get along with chroots [10:41] mvo: kvm for the win apparently ;-) [10:41] well, I have the G1 for ssh etc., but that doesn't run ubuntu yet [10:42] "yet" ;-) [10:42] there was a post on planet recently about wiping android and installing ubuntu :) [10:42] but how would I do phone calls then? [10:43] who need to do phone calls on a phone anyway [10:43] install ekiga and use that? ;-) [10:43] I'd love to, if only T-Online wouldn't block voip [10:44] seb128: I like it a lot === dpm_ is now known as dpm [11:13] seb128: hi. i'm currently working on the gnome-media merge/update. scrollkeeper has been deactivated to fix FTBFS, see bug 243573. I tried a build with scrollkeeper enabled and it worked. So do we again use scrollkeeper? [11:13] Launchpad bug 243573 in gnome-media "Please sponsor gnome-media 2.23.3-0ubuntu2 (main) into Intrepid" [Wishlist,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/243573 [11:18] Ampelbein: no [11:18] Ampelbein: scrollkeeper should be run on the client side not on the buildd [11:19] seb128: ok, so i drop the build-dep, too? [11:20] if it's not required [11:20] I'm not sure how smart the configure is, ie try to pbuilder it without the build-depends [11:47] pitti: so the sudo su -> root @console caused kind of colleteral damage to network manager ... [11:47] pitti: walters said its unfortunate, but he thinks that root shouldnt be @console unless you login at gdm or a real console [11:49] bug 360818 bug 371291 [11:49] Launchpad bug 360818 in network-manager-vpnc "NetworkManager.vpn fails -- nm-vpn-connection.c.900: NeedSecrets " [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/360818 [11:49] Launchpad bug 371291 in network-manager "MASTER PPP connect fails if root is @console with pppd_timed_out() - (NetworkManager does not connect to Mobile Broadband anymore in Jaunty (Sierra AC880))" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/371291 [11:50] pitti: in particular this means that using "deny" in @console rules is not practical as it will remove permissions from root [11:51] no action needed for jaunty ... we will change the network manager rules to not use any deny in @console ... but i guess we should consider to not make root @console for simple sudo su's [11:57] seb128: bug 371952 ready for review, see the linked branch. [11:57] Launchpad bug 371952 in gnome-media "Please sponsor version 2.27.1 in karmic" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/371952 [12:03] Ampelbein: ok thanks [12:04] Ampelbein: you can do the same for gnome-utils next if you want ;-) [12:05] asac: oh, do you really rely on d-bus ACLs in network-manager? [12:05] seb128: will have a look after lunch [12:05] Ampelbein: no hurry, enjoy your lunch [12:05] asac: I had hoped that at_console will go away at some time, and we can remove that hack from d-bus (with the /var/run/console/ stamps) [12:05] Polkit already knows that stuff, after all [12:06] pitti: we rely on dbus acls for some parts ... look at /etc/dbus-1/system.d/NetworkManager.conf for instance [12:07] pitti: @console going away is probably the right long term thing [12:07] i agree [12:07] i will check with dan how much work is to use polkit everywhere [12:07] ah, I see [12:08] asac: so the problem is that if you do sudo -i, that terminal gets a CK session for root, and thus is able to access NM, although it shouldn't be? [12:08] pitti: no. the problem is more devastating :) [12:09] pitti: nm consists of multiple parts that communicate through dbus [12:09] ... all running as root [12:09] now you do sudo su [12:09] and booooom. those parts cannot communicate anymore because the @console "deny" prevents it [12:09] ;) [12:10] so the problem is that @console leads to less permissions for root [12:10] than without @console [12:13] pitti: shouldnt the at_console check actually check whether the process is a child of the console? [12:13] i think i can answer that by myself [12:13] problem is obviously the /var/run/console/ thing ;) [12:14] asac: I wonder why you need that deny rule in the first place [12:14] is there a different approach for that? [12:14] pitti: without that deny all @console can access that interface [12:14] pitti: we will now use explicit interface allows [12:15] e.g. listing all interfaces that are allowed explicitly rather than adding a generic destination allow with a interface deny [12:15] asac: that's strange; d-bus should deny access to methods by default [12:15] it didn't in the past, but that was fixed in jaunty [12:15] pitti: well. there is is a generic allow destination [12:15] oh, I see [12:15] asac: right, ignore me [12:15] allow send_destination="org.freedesktop.NetworkManager"/> [12:15] yeah [12:16] so that will be replaced by all interfaces named explicitly ... which is a bit hard to maintain but also makes some sense [12:16] hopefully that works ;) [12:16] seems more users than expected have root shells open while doing networking [12:18] interesting bug, though [12:18] yeah [12:18] arguably dbus shouldnt deny anything for root user imo ;) [12:19] that would at least reflect the unix best practices [12:19] well old-best-practices. i think with selinux and stuff thats not always true anymore [12:34] * pitti -> lunch and some errands [12:52] seb128: doing gnome-utils now [12:52] good [13:29] pedro_: holla! [13:29] or "olla"? [13:29] seb128: salut my friend! [13:29] pedro_: how are you? [13:29] seb128: hola with just one l ;-) [13:29] hola then ;-) [13:29] seb128: good good looking at some evo bugs, how about you? [13:29] good [13:30] pedro_: do you still run jaunty? [13:30] pedro_: could you help to confirm some of my desktop srus so they can be moved to updates [13:30] pedro_: some are trivial to test on any config [13:30] seb128: yeap, at least for a couple of more weeks for doing SRU verifications [13:30] pedro_: ok, so could you do some of those on desktop components? ;-) [13:31] seb128: sure ;-) [13:31] count with that [13:31] the gnome-settings-daemon ones should be easy (out of the lid close crasher) [13:31] * pedro_ looking at the pending list [13:32] same about gnome-applets, at least confirming that the update works correctly [13:32] nautilus too [13:33] * seb128 kicks launchpad [13:33] now it's playing bugzilla and timeout! [13:33] seb128: ok will do those today [13:33] thanks [13:33] yeah it's working freaking slow for me too :-/ === rickspencer3-afk is now known as rickspencer3 === proppy1 is now known as proppy [15:11] seb128: bug 360084 ; it's still an issue with the proposed version of g-s-d and seems to depend on a change to gnome-control-center as stated on the upstream report [15:11] Launchpad bug 360084 in gnome-settings-daemon "confirm dialog below main window" [Low,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/360084 [15:11] commit is at http://git.gnome.org/cgit/gnome-control-center/commit/?id=6ea3c02290362ae3e9b4e9259bc72fc0b4ac45d2 [15:12] pedro_: ok, fine, write that on the bug saying that it's still working the same way but not broken in new ways [15:12] seb128: ok will do it [15:12] ie we can move that to updates it doesn't fix everybody but doesn't break either [15:12] thanks [15:13] you're welcome [15:13] the sru was not especially for this bug but I listed everything fixed in the new version ;-) [15:20] ok, time to go to catch my plane for the dxteam sprint [15:20] see you later === al-maisan_ is now known as al-maisan [17:22] awe: fyi, our team meeting is in 8 mins [17:26] uh, https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/sprints/uds-karmic?searchtext=desktop-karmic- is quite well filled [17:27] rickspencer3: thanks! you might want to update the wiki page, it says 14:00 UTC [17:27] oops, i meant 16:00 UTC [17:27] pitti: with two rooms, I think we have room for like 36 total or something [17:27] awe: thanks [17:27] could you please adjust it (being a wiki and all ;) ) [17:28] I think the fridge is correct [17:29] 5 days x 5 Sessions per day X 1.5 rooms = 37 [17:29] pitti: sound about right ^^^ ? [17:29] why 1.5 rooms? [17:29] that's for desktop + DX + OLS, right? [17:29] meeting? [17:29] we have two rooms, but should save some space for impromptu meetings [17:29] or does OLS have their own? [17:30] rickspencer3: right [17:30] design and dx [17:30] I kept OLS in desktop track for now [17:30] so there are some design-karmic-* [17:30] and dx-karmic-* sessions as well [17:30] what is OLS? [17:30] calc: Online Services [17:30] ah ok [17:31] we should be saying Ubuntu1 now [17:31] sorry [17:31] yo [17:31] so is this meeting ;)? [17:31] no going to start any second now though [17:31] heya asac [17:31] hehe [17:31] hi bryce [17:31] hi [17:31] meeting time [17:31] tkamppeter: welcome, are you there? [17:31] i am laggy from the u1 upload that is happening here :) [17:32] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2009-05-05 [17:32] I believe seb128 is traveling to the Dx sprint in London [17:32] everyone ready to go? [17:32] yup [17:32] Riddell: ready? [17:32] * rickspencer3 poke poke [17:33] hi [17:33] Let's go a little out of order, start with introducing awe [17:33] awe = Tony Espy, and he'll be an honorary desktopper for Karmic! [17:34] \o/ [17:34] hey awe, welcome to the team! [17:34] welcome awe! [17:34] * awe hey guys, nice to be part of a the new gang! [17:34] * asac waves @ awe [17:34] welcome awe! [17:34] heya awe [17:34] finally we have our own guitar rock star [17:34] ;/ [17:34] awe: do you want to introduce yourself briefly? [17:34] sure [17:35] i've spent the last 9 months or so as tech lead on the hp mini [17:35] for oem services [17:35] my background is networking plus desktop audio playback [17:35] hi, I am [17:35] i've also spent a lot of time working with the kernel team and defining how oem plays with the kernel [17:36] look forward to working with you all on karmic [17:36] * awe done w/intro [17:36] sweet [17:36] awe: you were a pepper, right? [17:37] (pepper = worked on Pepper Pad) [17:37]