[06:32] <gnomefreak> if someone is here what is the name of the package that allows you to use mouse in text mode (TTY#)
[09:45] <asac> dtchen: thanks for clarifying.
[10:35] <asac> odd
[10:35] <asac> hmm. launchpad mailing lists are not normal mailing list as it seems ;)
[10:36] <asac> can someone try to subscribe to https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mozilla-daily mailing list?
[10:36]  * asac wonders if that works without being a team member at all
[13:31] <Jazzva> asac: the daily bot checks if the version of last changelog entry is greater, or greater or equal than current in PPA?
[13:31] <asac> Jazzva: i think it doesnt check that at all
[13:32] <asac> it relis on the fac tthat the auto created version is higher
[13:32] <Jazzva> asac: re: mailing list - Policy:  You must be a team member to subscribe to the team mailing list. ... that's what I get
[13:33] <Jazzva> asac: well, I made a mistake in the yesterday's upload, so I want to push a new revision. current ppa has version 0.9.9+svn20090504r25221-0ubuntu1~umd1. Will it start build today if I adjust version in changelog to 0.9.9+svn20090504r25221-0ubuntu1?
[13:34] <asac> Jazzva: well. today it will be 0.9.9+svn20090505 ;)
[13:34] <asac> so it doesnt matter if you change changelog version or not
[13:35] <Jazzva> asac: ok... sooo, it will autostart build every day. Ok then :)
[13:36] <asac> yeah
[13:36] <asac> the bot bumps changelog every day
[13:36] <asac> we only change changelog version in bzr if we need to modify something because of a change from upstream
[13:36] <asac> like adjusting patches
[13:36] <asac> or new .install files or something
[13:37] <asac> of course we also bump changelog when we bake a real release for archive
[13:37] <Jazzva> asac: aha... ok
[13:37] <Jazzva> asac: ok, pushed new revision, it should build today :)
[13:38] <asac> prism?
[13:38] <asac> great
[13:38] <asac> does it work ;)?
[13:39] <Jazzva> asac: well, if the latest trunk is ok, it will work :)
[13:39] <Jazzva> I have  to pull it and run test build to see :)
[13:40] <asac> Jazzva: i think the channel for this is #labs on irc.mozilla.org
[13:41] <Jazzva> asac: Ok, I'll report there if it's not working. Though, I suppose they  know if their trunk is not in the working state atm
[13:41] <asac> Jazzva: i wouldnt be so sure about that
[13:42] <asac> Jazzva: they mostly work on a firefox extension that uses firefox to run those apps
[13:42] <asac> we however, have a firefox extension and also the standalone ... and we dont use firefox, but xulrunner
[13:43] <Jazzva> asac: ok, I'll report if it fails to build :)
[13:48] <Jazzva> asac: http://paste.ubuntu.com/164901/ ... do we know about these errors?
[13:48] <Jazzva> (reported by lintian)
[13:49] <asac> Jazzva: yeah thats really wrong
[13:49] <asac> Jazzva: its a bit of a mess
[13:49] <asac> i think the /usr/share/prism/prism dir should be in /usr/lib/prism
[13:50] <Jazzva> and there are other warnings, but I didn't paste them
[13:50] <asac> and /usr/share/prism/prism should be a link to that dir
[13:50] <Jazzva> asac: it's working now :)
[13:51] <asac> Jazzva: i think its somehow still messy
[13:51] <asac> we have /usr/lib/prism-0.9.9
[13:51] <asac> thats afaik supposed to be the same as /usr/share/prism/prism
[13:51] <asac> but its not
[13:51] <asac> so in theory the link should go to the versioned dir
[13:51] <asac> Jazzva: what is working?
[13:51] <asac> prism?
[13:52] <Jazzva> asac: prism... it's loading a website
[13:52] <asac> great
[13:52] <asac> so the patch was the problem
[13:52] <asac> good
[13:52] <Jazzva> asac: yes...
[13:52] <asac> Jazzva: can you check if prism still works if you do the link stuff?
[13:52] <asac> e.g. ln -s /usr/lib/prism-0.9.9 /usr/share/prism/prism
[13:52] <asac>  (first removing /usr/share...)
[13:53] <Jazzva> sure
[13:53] <asac> Jazzva: i guess the "res" dir is missing
[13:53] <asac> Jazzva: maybe backup the /usr7share thing so you can experiment whats wrong
[13:53] <asac> in the end its supposed to work from command line
[13:53] <asac> but also the extension in firefox is supposed to work
[13:55] <asac> Jazzva: the extension can be tested by using tools -> Convert website to application in firefox
[13:55] <Jazzva> asac: after this http://paste.ubuntu.com/164904/ all of prism is still working
[13:55] <Jazzva> asac: that's what I used
[13:55] <asac> ah
[13:55] <asac> Jazzva: does prism-twitter still work?
[13:55] <asac> e.g. we have wrapper packages for some stuff
[13:56] <Jazzva> yes
[13:56] <Jazzva> it's working...
[13:56] <Jazzva> (running prism-twitter from terminal)
[13:56] <asac> /usr/share/prism/prism/prism
[13:56] <asac> whats that?
[13:56] <asac> ah ;)
[13:56] <asac> thats the binary
[13:56] <asac> wow
[13:56] <Jazzva> erm... running prism for the first time, then with just "prism"
[13:57] <asac> nice
[13:57] <asac> so prism is in good shape again ;)
[13:57] <Jazzva> looks like it is...
[13:57] <asac> Jazzva: can you try to fix the packaging like you did ?
[13:57] <asac> e.g. the link stuff
[13:57] <asac> and so on?
[13:57] <asac> that might be a bit tricky
[13:57] <Jazzva> I suppose I can try...
[13:58] <Jazzva> asac: I'll check where I should fix that (in what file)...
[13:58] <asac> Jazzva: i think the problem is that this whole tree gets packed into the xpi
[13:59] <Jazzva> asac: we should also get prism-identica package... afaics, more people are using identica (at least in Ubuntu)
[13:59] <asac> and the xpi.mk just extracts it
[13:59] <asac> so we can either remove that dir and replace it with a link _after_ xpi stuff was run
[13:59] <asac> or we can cleanup the xpi before
[13:59] <Jazzva> asac: then I'll fix debian/rules for prism...
[13:59] <asac> i would think the post stuff is the thing
[13:59] <asac> Jazzva: right
[13:59] <asac> Jazzva: we can add prism-identica
[13:59] <asac> Jazzva: we just need a good icon afaik
[14:00] <asac> for the .desktop file
[14:00] <Jazzva> asac: http://twitter.com/Jazzva/status/1705728373 :)
[14:01] <Jazzva> asac: post stuff?
[14:01] <asac> Jazzva: yes, after the xpi.mk did its job
[14:02] <asac> Jazzva: ok i think we should sanitize the .xpi here:
[14:02] <asac> refractor.xpi:: build/prism
[14:02] <asac> e.g. remove the whole prism tree there
[14:02] <asac> then you can just create the link in binary-install
[14:03] <asac> a bit below that rule in rules
[14:04] <Jazzva> asac: ok, found it
[14:04] <Jazzva> asac: I'll do a bit of VHDL for school now, then I'll dig into this, if that's not a problem :)
[14:05] <asac> h_link -pprism usr/lib/prism-addons/extensions $(DEBIAN_PRISM_DIR)/extensions
[14:05] <asac> dh_link -pprism $(DEBIAN_PRISM_DIR) /usr/share/prism/prism
[14:05] <asac> Jazzva: i think that one in binary-install/prism::
[14:06] <asac> Jazzva: assuming you removed the prism subtree from the zip in the other rule
[14:18] <Jazzva> asac: done, still working
[14:23] <Jazzva> asac: done, still working. Do we need to add libc depends? lintian says so :)
[14:28] <Jazzva> asac: pushed new revision. Off to do a bit of VHDL
[14:29] <asac> Jazzva: well. the problem is that there is still binary stuff somewhere in /usr/share i would think
[14:29] <Jazzva> asac: lintian doesn't report it
[14:30] <micahg> hi asac
[14:30] <Jazzva> asac: I'll paste you all warnings and errors, just to get them
[14:33] <Jazzva> asac: http://paste.ubuntu.com/164919/
[14:51] <asac> micahg: hi. i will be available in ~1.5h
[14:52] <asac> have to do lunch and have a call then and so on ;)
[14:53] <micahg> ok
[15:30] <gnomefreak> i hate python
[15:31] <gnomefreak> who ever runs gwibber daily need to update depends on python in python-feedparser. I have it fixed locally
[15:33] <gnomefreak> pushed to my PPA for karmic users
[16:25] <micahg> asac: ping?
[16:25] <asac> micahg: hi
[16:25] <asac> sorry took a bit
[16:25] <micahg> hi
[16:25] <asac> micahg: so first, i saw a bunch of your bug triaging ... and i think its really great ;)
[16:26] <micahg> cool
[16:26] <micahg> that's what I wanted to check
[16:26] <micahg> I didn't want to make a mess of your package
[16:26] <asac> the amount of bugs against mozilla is really too huge
[16:26] <asac> micahg: yeah. i think we can still improve things
[16:26] <asac> micahg: look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MozillaTeam/Bugs/TriagersHandbook
[16:26] <micahg> so all the dups for that master last night were ok?
[16:27] <asac> thats basically a simple receipt book for mozilla bugs in new/incomplete
[16:27] <asac> micahg: i dont know if all are ok. i saw that you usually did good work, so i didnt control everything ;)
[16:27] <asac> micahg: if you are in doubt i am always here for a question
[16:27] <micahg> ok
[16:27] <micahg> great
[16:28] <asac> micahg: so are you currently working on some specific bugs like New/incomplete?
[16:28] <asac> or just all bugmail that comes?
[16:29] <micahg> Bugs in New status
[16:29] <asac> ah ok. thats great
[16:29] <micahg> trying to either merge, invalidate, or convert to Q
[16:29] <asac> micahg: does what i wrote in the triagers handbook make sense?
[16:29] <micahg> yes
[16:29] <micahg> You might want to link that page to this one
[16:29] <micahg> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MozillaTeam/Bugs/Triage/Responses
[16:30] <asac> micahg: feel free to clean that up ;)
[16:30] <micahg> also, could you add the blurb you normally use about extensions to the link above?
[16:30] <asac> i am not sure if the Responses are still up to date :(
[16:30] <micahg> oh
[16:30] <asac> a bit of a shame i know
[16:30] <micahg> well, I try to use what's on the responses page
[16:30] <asac> i did the triagers handbook because i thought that just "standard" answers dont help triagers to move bugs in the right direction
[16:30] <micahg> do I need an ubuntu account to edit the wiki?
[16:31] <asac> micahg: not sure. i think you need a launchpad account
[16:31] <asac> micahg: try to "create a new account" on the wiki page
[16:31] <asac> that should be enough
[16:31] <asac> either that gets the authentication through launchpad or you need to set yet another new password ;)
[16:32] <micahg> launchpad ID got me in
[16:33] <asac> yeah cool (cant remember when i last logged in ;))(
[16:34] <asac> micahg: so ... one the main purposes of doing bug triage is getting all the noisy stuff converted to question and filtered somehow; all the other bugs that are valid should end up in the normalized bug format and then forwarded to upstream bugzilla
[16:34] <asac> micahg: so if you get bored with "New" processing feel free to extend your work in that direction ;)
[16:34] <micahg> ok, sometimes I have trouble with converting to Q
[16:34] <asac> micahg: in which sense?
[16:35] <micahg> https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/firefox-3.0/+question/69209
[16:35] <micahg> Did I goof on converting that one?
[16:38] <asac> micahg: i dont think you goofed it up
[16:39] <asac> micahg: this "flash does not work" pops regularly up
[16:39] <micahg> asac: ok, so I should just keep troubleshooting
[16:39] <micahg> oh, I have a Q for you asac
[16:39] <asac> micahg: wait a sec lets finish this flash thing
[16:39] <asac> micahg: so there are a few things that usually cause issues:
[16:39] <micahg> that's exactly my Q :)
[16:39] <asac> 1. user has some old flash installed in his profile -> Test: move .mozilla to a backup location and start firefox
[16:42] <micahg> Wouldn't it be easier to have a user run apport collect on ff3 and see what extension versions are installed?
[16:46] <asac> micahg: reconnect :(
[16:46] <asac> 17:39 < micahg> that's exactly my Q :)
[16:46] <asac> 17:39 < asac> 1. user has some old flash installed in his profile -> Test: move .mozilla to a backup location and start firefox
[16:46] <asac> 17:40 < asac> 2. user has multiple flash things installed and flashplugin-nonfree isnt the one used -> Test: about:plugins also shows  gnash or swfdec or something
[16:46] <asac> 17:41 < asac> 3. the xulrunner-addons-flashplugin alternative is messed up -> Fix: user should run sudo update-alternatives --config  xulrunner-addons-flashplugin
[16:46] <asac> 17:42 < asac> and select flash there
[16:46] <asac> 17:42 < asac> 4. same as 3. but mozilla-flashplugin alternative
[16:46] <asac> 17:42 < asac> note: 3. and 4. is a real sucky situation and is partly a dpkg bug ... and partly because alternatives are just nothing  normal users know about
[16:46] <asac> 17:43 < asac> micahg: so if 3. and 4. are fixed, we have ubufox so you can switch between flash/gnash and swfdec
[16:46] <asac> 17:43 < asac> (thats for 2.)
[16:46] <asac> 17:44 < asac> whenever you are on a website that has flash on it, there is a Tools->Manage Content plugins menu entry
[16:46] <asac> 17:44 < asac> going there allows users to select whatever flash variant they want to use
[16:46] <asac> 17:44 < asac> micahg: does that make sense?
[16:46] <asac> 17:44 < asac> or is that too much ;)
[16:47] <micahg> no, that's great
[16:47] <micahg> regarding #1, Wouldn't it be easier to have a user run apport collect on ff3 and see what extension versions are installed?
[16:48] <micahg> also, can I add flash triaging to the mozilla page?
[16:48] <asac> micahg: feel free to reorganize the mozilla triaging page. My idea was to redo everything based on the new triagers handbook
[16:48] <asac> which tries to give guidance how to get bugs easily over New/incomplete/confirmed to either triaged or invalid
[16:49] <asac> personally i am not a fan of stock responses
[16:49] <asac> unless they fit perfectly it can be quite depressing to see that users that tookj the time to file bugs get ask all those questions
[16:50] <asac> imo its better write a short sentence ... and not something super-polite that is a stock response
[16:50] <asac> of course its an experience thing
[16:50] <micahg> well, if it's a first time a user is getting the stock response, it's probably good, if it's the 20th time, it might be annoying
[16:51] <micahg> so, I should feel free to free form the responses then?
[16:51] <asac> yeah.
[16:51] <asac> micahg: yes. its more efficient except for the most common cases.
[16:51] <asac> for instance if users have a bunch of extensions you can ask them to disable them
[16:52] <asac> as a first attempt
[16:55] <asac> micahg: the other question was whether making apport attach plugins would make sense
[16:55] <asac> micahg: and yes, that makes sense. and actually it does that (except that there is abug currently in the apport hoook in jaunty)
[16:55] <asac> similar to how apport submits ExtensionSummary list it also submits a pluginreg.dat by default
[16:56] <asac> problem is that tehere are no absolute paths
[16:56] <asac> (afaik)
[16:56] <asac> so we dont know if its a custom flash install or something else
[16:56] <asac> but usually that pluginreg.dat attached is good start
[16:58] <micahg> ok, I'll make a flash triage section on the wiki later tonight
[16:58] <asac> good.
[16:58] <asac> micahg: if you could try out the triagers handbook that would be great too
[16:58] <micahg> yes, I will try to use it
[16:59] <asac> micahg: if it gets in your way or feels incomplete we can see what we do
[16:59] <micahg> ok, when are you normally around?
[16:59] <asac> but personally i think its a good improvement because it shows an easy path towards getting bugs triaged
[16:59] <micahg> yes, Ubuntu has something similar now
[16:59] <asac> micahg: european business hours but usually i am in here in the european evening as well
[17:00] <micahg> are you GMT?
[17:00] <asac> i am GMT+1 (or +2 depending on daylight saving)
[17:00] <asac> @time
[17:01] <asac> ubottu: time?
[17:01] <asac> ubottu: time
[17:01] <asac> tse
[17:01] <asac> too bad
[17:01] <asac> !time
[17:01] <asac> time
[17:01] <asac> forget it ;)
[17:01] <asac> @now
[17:01] <asac> i dont even know which bot did that
[17:01] <asac> anyway ... Europe/Berlin timezoon
[17:01] <asac> zone
[17:01] <asac> thats CET+2 atm afaik
[17:01] <asac> err GMT+2
[17:01] <asac> ;)
[17:01] <asac> UTC+2
[17:02] <micahg> ok
[17:02] <micahg> I'm GMT -5 or 6
[17:02] <micahg> so we're 8 hours apart
[17:02] <micahg> 7 right now
[17:02] <micahg> so I'm more likely to catch you in the evening
[17:02] <micahg> or early morning
[17:02] <micahg> before I go to bed
[17:09] <asac> micahg: thats ok i am usually starting late ;)
[17:09] <asac> more like a night owl
[17:09] <micahg> ok
[17:10] <micahg> about the flash bugs
[17:10] <micahg> should I start duping them?
[17:10] <micahg> or should they all be on their own?
[17:10] <micahg> there are about 200 new flash bugs just in ff3
[17:16] <asac> micahg: first: those flash bugs are all not firefox, but flashplugin-nonfree usually
[17:16] <asac> so move them to that package
[17:17] <micahg> ok
[17:17] <micahg> what makes it a FF bug?
[17:17] <micahg> if anything?
[17:18] <asac> micahg: its really really unlikely that its a firefox issue
[17:18] <micahg> ok, so I should move all of them?
[17:18] <asac> micahg: if they complain about flash not working at all, then you can move them. if they say that sometimes there are grey areas, but sometimes it works
[17:18] <asac> it can either be nspluginwrapper (if they use that) or a pulseaudio bug ... which causes flash to block and sometimes not redraw
[17:19] <micahg> ok, also, some people aren't using the adobe flash
[17:19] <micahg> so, I should leave those in FF or move them to the appropriate package?
[17:20] <micahg> also, for people using gnash or swfdec, I can jsut propose using the adobe flash or should we try to debug the otheres?
[17:24] <asac> micahg: at best we would teach them how to use ubufox to normally use gnash .. and only if it doesnt work switch to adobe
[17:25] <micahg> asac: well, gnash doesn't support higher than flash 8 I thought
[17:25] <micahg> I agree with you in principle
[17:26] <micahg> but for newbies, it seems like it'll cause more trouble than it's worth
[17:26] <micahg> brb 10 min
[17:44] <micahg> asac: i'll have to continue this with you later
[17:44] <micahg> I have to go to work
[20:48] <asac> xul 1.9.2 dailies fail to build (patch doesnt apply ;))
[22:44] <Jazzva> asac: ok, I'll check xul later...
[22:48] <dtchen> Jazzva: are you still experiencing the "volume diminishes until inaudible after inserting headphones" symptom?
[22:49] <Jazzva> dtchen: hmm, somehow external mic jack is working now, but internal mic is not working. brb, on the phone right now
[23:19] <Jazzva> dtchen: back. I changed some parameter, related to snd_hda_intel, to "dell-bios" or something similar in some configuration file. After that, external mic jack is working perfectly, but internal analog mic is not working. It's a bug, but it's not really bothering me... That internal mic is a piece of crap
[23:26] <Jazzva> dtchen: I added "options snd-hda-intel model=3stack" to /etc/modprobe.d/alsa-base.conf