[00:00] <nhandler> james_w: Are you going to send out the minutes?
[00:00] <james_w> I shall
[00:00] <nhandler> Thanks
[00:00] <james_w> thanks everyone
[00:00]  * Vantrax waves to all
[00:00] <james_w> #endmeeting
[00:00] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 18:00.
[00:00] <james_w> all yours BT!
[00:00] <nhandler> bodhi_zazen: Do you want to chair or should I?
[00:00] <Rocket2DMn> thanks guys
[00:00] <bodhi_zazen> I shall nhandler
[00:00] <nhandler> ;)
[00:01]  * bodhi_zazen feels the need to assert authority  :)
[00:01] <Hellow> Meeting time?
[00:01] <bodhi_zazen> #startmeeting
[00:01] <MootBot> Meeting started at 18:01. The chair is bodhi_zazen.
[00:01] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[00:01] <bodhi_zazen> Welcome everyone
[00:01] <jamesrfla> Hi bodhi_zazen
[00:01] <Bodsda> Morning people
[00:01] <bgs100> Hi bodhi_zazen
[00:01] <bodhi_zazen> [TOPIC] Agenda : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Meetings
[00:01] <MootBot> New Topic:  Agenda : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Meetings
[00:01] <Hellow> afternoon peoples
[00:02] <bodhi_zazen> We have a full schedule so please read ahead
[00:02] <bodhi_zazen> ready Rocket2DMn ?
[00:02] <bodhi_zazen> [TOPIC] Mailing list
[00:02] <MootBot> New Topic:  Mailing list
[00:03] <Rocket2DMn> Yeah
[00:03] <Rocket2DMn> Just as a followup to a decision made earlier, everybody needs to be on the mailing list, or you will lose voice
[00:03] <Rocket2DMn> AFAIK, saj and overdrank are the only two not on the list now
[00:03] <Rocket2DMn> saj apparently said he would get on later this week, so we just need to talk to OD
[00:03] <nhandler> Has anyone seen overdrank recently?
[00:04] <jamesrfla> nope
[00:04] <PartyBoi2> not for awhile
[00:04] <Rocket2DMn> no, havent seen him around, just on the forums occassionally
[00:04] <Bodsda> no
[00:04] <thewrath> no, only when he said he would sign up alter on in the week
[00:04] <bodhi_zazen> How about if we send out an email to the 2 MIA with a 30 day deadline ?
[00:04] <Rocket2DMn> howabout just before the next meeting bodhi_zazen
[00:04] <Rocket2DMn> that's 2 weeks, right?
[00:04] <bodhi_zazen> 2 weeks is too short , IMO
[00:04] <nhandler> bodhi_zazen: I think overdrank is the only one we need to send an email
[00:04] <sdennie> Either way works for me
[00:04] <bodhi_zazen> some people have things come up
[00:05] <Rocket2DMn> ok, 30 days then
[00:05] <Rocket2DMn> you want to email overdrank bodhi_zazen ?
[00:05] <sdennie> It's a trivial thing to do
[00:05] <bodhi_zazen> Well, email helps document nhandler
[00:05] <bodhi_zazen> I shall
[00:05] <Rocket2DMn> Thanks, that is all for this topic i believe
[00:05] <bodhi_zazen> anyone want to vote ?
[00:06] <nhandler> I don't think a vote is necessary. I think we [AGREE]
[00:06] <ds305> I vote not to vote.
[00:06] <sdennie> Naaa
[00:06] <bodhi_zazen> [ACTION] email with 30 day notice
[00:06] <MootBot> ACTION received:  email with 30 day notice
[00:06] <sdennie> 0
[00:06] <bodhi_zazen> [TOPIC] Ubuntu newsletter
[00:06] <MootBot> New Topic:  Ubuntu newsletter
[00:07] <nhandler> I'm up
[00:07] <bodhi_zazen> Team reporting looks great nhandler
[00:07] <nhandler> I talked to the UWN editors, they said that they would be wiling to include a blurb about the UFBT after our meetings
[00:07] <cprofitt> I agree with the process nhandler
[00:07] <bodhi_zazen> I think we need someone to lead that project up , probably should be me ?
[00:07] <cprofitt> and the UWN editors are very nice
[00:07] <cprofitt> to work with
[00:08] <nhandler> I have been getting involved with the UWN lately bodhi_zazen, so I can act as a liason
[00:08] <bodhi_zazen> what do we need to do nhandler ?
[00:08] <nhandler> bodhi_zazen: The Team Reporting link explains how to handle it
[00:08] <nhandler> If you want, I can demonstrate after this meeting
[00:08] <bodhi_zazen> link here for logs please nhandler :)
[00:08] <bgs100> What is the Ubuntu Newsletter?
[00:08] <cprofitt> I also have a pretty good relationship with Tyche and JohnC
[00:08] <bodhi_zazen> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BuildingCommunity/TeamReporting
[00:09] <nhandler> and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter
[00:09] <bodhi_zazen> OK, let up proceed with it then
[00:09] <nhandler> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter
[00:09] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter
[00:10] <nhandler> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BuildingCommunity/TeamReporting
[00:10] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BuildingCommunity/TeamReporting
[00:10] <bodhi_zazen> [ACTION] Proceed with Team Reporting
[00:10] <MootBot> ACTION received:  Proceed with Team Reporting
[00:10] <jgoguen> what's the link to our team report?
[00:10] <nhandler> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/TeamReport
[00:10] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/TeamReport
[00:10] <sdennie> Haha
[00:10] <bodhi_zazen> [IDEA] I think we need to include the Education FG on that as the Moodle site has the highest visibility right now
[00:10] <MootBot> IDEA received:  I think we need to include the Education FG on that as the Moodle site has the highest visibility right now
[00:11] <bodhi_zazen> any other comments ?
[00:11] <Rocket2DMn> thanks for making that nhandler , we'll add it to our linkbar at the top
[00:11] <nhandler> I agree bodhi_zazen, all FGs should be included in the team report. They are part of the team after all
[00:11] <nhandler> Thanks Rocket2DMn
[00:11] <thewrath> agreed
[00:11] <Rocket2DMn> [ACTION] Add https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/TeamReport to the BT wiki navbar
[00:11] <sdennie> nhandler: Well, maybe not ALL groups...
[00:11]  * nhandler notes only the chair can use [ACTION]
[00:11] <Rocket2DMn> oh, thanks
[00:11] <bodhi_zazen> Some teams are inactive, I think only major FG
[00:12] <Rocket2DMn> I think FGs should just post a subsection when appropriate
[00:12] <thewrath> what teams would be included?
[00:12] <nhandler> bodhi_zazen: If the team has some important news, it should go there
[00:12] <nhandler> That was what I was thinking RoAkSoAx
[00:12] <nhandler> * Rocket2DMn
[00:12] <bodhi_zazen> I think Education, wiki, and "forums"
[00:12] <bgs100> I have to go...
[00:12] <bgs100> Wait, nevermind
[00:13] <bodhi_zazen> we can hammer out details over the next few weeks
[00:13] <sdennie> bodhi_zazen: Yes, those seem to be the most visible and interesting groups
[00:13] <bodhi_zazen> shall we move on ?
[00:13] <nhandler> Fine
[00:13] <bodhi_zazen> [TOPIC] VOTING IN MEETINGS
[00:13] <MootBot> New Topic:  VOTING IN MEETINGS
[00:13] <bodhi_zazen> he he he
[00:13] <bodhi_zazen> capslockfailure
[00:13] <st33med> bodhi_zazen, lrn2pushcapslock
[00:13] <nhandler> We used to use VoteBot to restrict voting to BT members. Now that we are in #ubuntu-meeting, that is no longer possible
[00:13] <bodhi_zazen> nhandler raises a good point
[00:14] <Hellow> o/
[00:14] <Rocket2DMn> I think we should still keep it to members voting, people can't private vote so it's easy to disregard votes from non-members.
[00:14] <PartyBoi2> It should be kept to members only, imo
[00:14] <jamesrfla> +1 I kind of brought it up...
[00:14] <bodhi_zazen> +1 Rocket2DMn
[00:14] <st33med> Private Message Voting.
[00:14] <cprofitt> we can ask to have VoteBot allowed.... in here.
[00:14] <Vantrax> o/
[00:14] <ds305> Stongly feel only members can vote. Accounting is something that can be done with penci/paper if necessary until automation returns.
[00:14]  * zu22 concurs members-only
[00:14] <Snova> cprofitt: Yes, but it works based on voice, I think.
[00:14] <bodhi_zazen> go Hellow and Vantrax
[00:14]  * Bodsda agrees, members only
[00:14] <nhandler> I could hard code some settings into VoteBot to make it look in #ubuntuforums-beginners to determine members
[00:15] <st33med> We can set up VoteBot to accept votes via PM
[00:15] <Vantrax> Voting should still be possible just by messaging votebot, even if its not in here
[00:15] <nhandler> It already does st33med
[00:15] <Rocket2DMn> st33med, votebot already does accept private votes
[00:15] <Hellow> I was going to suggest voting by PM XD
[00:15] <bodhi_zazen> we can vote in #ubuntuforums-beginners
[00:15] <cprofitt> +1 bodhi_zazen
[00:15] <bodhi_zazen> which would solve the "problem"
[00:15] <cprofitt> was just typing that out
[00:15] <st33med> +1
[00:15] <nhandler> It sounds like the team still wants member voting
[00:15] <Rocket2DMn> that is true bodhi_zazen , and we can just say the results here
[00:15] <Joeb454> bodhi_zazen: I don't think it solves the problem
[00:15] <PartyBoi2> +1 bodhi_zazen
[00:15] <zu22> +1
[00:15] <Joeb454> it creates a fix, definitely
[00:15] <Joeb454> but not solve
[00:15] <bodhi_zazen> why not Joeb454 ?
[00:15] <nhandler> I might be able to code something that would allow us to hold the vote in here, but use #ubuntuforum-beginners to determine members
[00:15] <Rocket2DMn> I don't have a problem using MootBot though, it seems more responsive to me
[00:15] <bodhi_zazen> and who asked you ?
[00:16] <Joeb454> it just seems a hassle
[00:16] <Hellow> Perhaps we can have a dedicated vote bot with a database of members, and it allows only those people in the database to vote?
[00:16] <Joeb454> bodhi_zazen: :|
[00:16] <nhandler> Rocket2DMn: Mootbot is open to all users
[00:16] <bodhi_zazen> :)
[00:16] <jamesrfla> lol Rocket2DMn
[00:16] <Rocket2DMn> nhandler, yeah, but we can see the votes
[00:16] <sdennie> nhandler: I'm sure you could
[00:16] <jamesrfla> we all know votebot has lag. Rocket2DMn brings up a good point
[00:16] <cprofitt> how do other teams handle votes in this channel?
[00:16] <Bodsda> nhandler: could you not have a list coded into votebot of voiced members in #ubntuforums-beginners then check each vote in here against that list?
[00:16] <nhandler> Rocket2DMn: But that means we need to manually count the votes and verify non-members did not vote
[00:16] <Snova> I think that's mostly because it echos all your votes back.
[00:16] <bodhi_zazen> how about if we use #ubuntuforums-beginners for voting until we have a better solution
[00:16] <st33med> I could potentially modify my bot to accept votes
[00:17] <sdennie> Snova: It is
[00:17] <Rocket2DMn> nhandler, if it came to that, i would support using VoteBot, but I don't see it being a problem
[00:17] <bodhi_zazen> alternate would be mootbot until there is a problem
[00:17] <st33med> It's much faster and no lag
[00:17] <nhandler> I should be able to get VoteBot working by the next meeting
[00:17] <cprofitt> perhaps we should ask some of the other teams that use this channel
[00:17] <bodhi_zazen> st33med: NO MORE BOTS :)
[00:17] <st33med> bodhi_zazen, no, I mean 'replace'
[00:17] <nhandler> cprofitt: Other teams simply use MootBot since the meetings are open
[00:17] <st33med> :)
[00:17] <cprofitt> k
[00:17] <Snova> st33med: Votebot itself is not laggy, it just has the annoying "feature" of echoing all your votes back.
[00:17] <Joeb454> cprofitt: I think they get non-members to then vote -1 to get the count back to what it should be
[00:17]  * Hellow echoes his prior suggestion
[00:17] <bodhi_zazen> Shall we vote ?
[00:18] <bodhi_zazen> +1 = use mootbot
[00:18] <bodhi_zazen> -1 = use votebot in #uf-b
[00:18] <st33med> What happened to yea or nay?
[00:18] <Joeb454> bodhi_zazen: HOW DO WE VOTE ;)
[00:18] <bodhi_zazen> [VOTE] Mootbot ?
[00:18] <MootBot> Please vote on:  Mootbot ?.
[00:18] <MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
[00:18] <MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
[00:18] <st33med> ;)
[00:18] <Rocket2DMn> +1
[00:18] <MootBot> +1 received from Rocket2DMn. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
[00:18] <sdennie> 0
[00:18] <st33med> -1
[00:18] <jamesrfla> -1
[00:18] <MootBot> -1 received from st33med. 1 for, 1 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 0
[00:18] <PartyBoi2> -1
[00:18] <MootBot> -1 received from jamesrfla. 1 for, 2 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -1
[00:18] <Bodsda> where are we voting?
[00:18] <MootBot> -1 received from PartyBoi2. 1 for, 3 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -2
[00:18] <Vantrax> -1
[00:18] <MootBot> -1 received from Vantrax. 1 for, 4 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -3
[00:18] <Bodsda> oh here
[00:18] <Joeb454> +1
[00:18] <jgoguen> -1
[00:18] <zu22> -1
[00:18] <Bodsda> -1
[00:18] <Hellow> -1
[00:18] <MootBot> +1 received from Joeb454. 2 for, 4 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -2
[00:18] <nhandler> -1
[00:18] <duanedes1gn> _1
[00:18] <MootBot> -1 received from jgoguen. 2 for, 5 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -3
[00:18] <cprofitt> +0
[00:18] <duanedes1gn> -1
[00:18] <MootBot> -1 received from zu22. 2 for, 6 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -4
[00:18] <Hellow> lol
[00:18] <ds305> -1
[00:18] <MootBot> -1 received from Bodsda. 2 for, 7 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -5
[00:18] <bodhi_zazen> 0
[00:18] <MootBot> -1 received from Hellow. 2 for, 8 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -6
[00:18] <MootBot> -1 received from nhandler. 2 for, 9 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -7
[00:18] <MootBot> Abstention received from cprofitt. 2 for, 9 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now -7
[00:18] <MootBot> -1 received from duanedes1gn. 2 for, 10 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now -8
[00:18] <MootBot> -1 received from ds305. 2 for, 11 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now -9
[00:18] <Rocket2DMn> bodhi_zazen, you have to use a +
[00:18] <st33med> lawl
[00:19] <Joeb454> bodhi_zazen: you need a +
[00:19] <Hellow> win
[00:19] <bodhi_zazen> +0
[00:19] <MootBot> Abstention received from bodhi_zazen. 2 for, 11 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now -9
[00:19] <sdennie> +0
[00:19] <MootBot> Abstention received from sdennie. 2 for, 11 against. 3 have abstained. Count is now -9
[00:19] <bodhi_zazen> [VOTE]
[00:19] <MootBot> bodhi_zazen, Either there isn't a meeting in progress, or there is already an active vote.
[00:19] <st33med> :\
[00:19] <bgs100> +0
[00:19] <jamesrfla> ?
[00:19] <MootBot> Abstention received from bgs100. 2 for, 11 against. 4 have abstained. Count is now -9
[00:19] <bodhi_zazen> LOL
[00:19] <Snova> MootBot is echoing things as well... but it's not lagging nearly as bad...
[00:19] <nhandler> bodhi_zazen: [ENDVOTE]
[00:19] <bodhi_zazen> [ENDVOTE]
[00:19] <MootBot> Final result is 2 for, 11 against. 4 abstained. Total: -9
[00:19] <nhandler> Snova: VoteBot needs threading
[00:19] <Rocket2DMn> lol, I got rocked
[00:19] <bodhi_zazen> OK Votebot for now then >:)
[00:20] <zu22> votebot ftw!
[00:20] <st33med> bodhi_zazen, I am saying that I want to replace VoteBot with my codebase
[00:20]  * bodhi_zazen likes mootbot, can we do that again ?
[00:20] <jamesrfla> go lagy votebot
[00:20] <nhandler> At one point, ibuclaw was playing around with adding threading support
[00:20] <Joeb454> bodhi_zazen: the total still would've been -8
[00:20] <sdennie> I think Votebot just needs it's throttling turned off.
[00:20] <ds305> bodhi_zazen: Mootbot couldn't even rig it's own election!
[00:20] <bodhi_zazen> [TOPIC] IRC Policies
[00:20] <MootBot> New Topic:  IRC Policies
[00:20] <st33med> It's multithreaded and can handle a lot of messages at once
[00:21] <thewrath>  I guess it is my turn
[00:21] <bodhi_zazen> thewrath: you here :)
[00:21] <thewrath> yes sir
[00:21] <bodhi_zazen> go :)
[00:21] <thewrath> Over the past week I have seen and heard issues in the bt channel. Last night was the end of the line. I believe many of us where in the room. I read about it. I wanted to remind everyone that we are an official ubuntu channel
[00:21] <bodhi_zazen> I too see bad behavior on the channel
[00:22] <bodhi_zazen> we have discussed this b4
[00:22] <thewrath> I also propose some kind of reprocution if a member is foudn to do this
[00:22] <Rocket2DMn> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/IRC
[00:22] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/IRC
[00:22] <thewrath> bodhi_zazen: i bring it up after last nights incidents
[00:22] <bodhi_zazen> complaints to mailing list with SHORT logs please
[00:22] <bodhi_zazen> to be handled by council
[00:22] <Bodsda> o/
[00:22] <Joeb454> o/
[00:22] <ibuclaw> at some point, I may merge/edit and push my branch, but the current codebase nhandler has is huge.
[00:22] <st33med> \\o
[00:22] <bodhi_zazen> Bodsda:
[00:22] <Bodsda> is the mailing list really the best place to discuss a bt members bad behaviour, should it not be private?
[00:23] <bodhi_zazen> I would like to remind everyone to behave
[00:23] <bodhi_zazen> Not if it occurs in the main channel Bodsda
[00:23] <zu22> o/
[00:23] <nhandler> Bodsda: Depending on the nature, either send it to the BT Council mailing list or post it in ##beginners-council
[00:23] <bodhi_zazen> the council will discuss it in private
[00:23] <Bodsda> nhandler: and if it is a problem with a council member?
[00:23] <Vantrax> Bodsda: then to Bodhi directly
[00:23] <bodhi_zazen> Well if a council member acts out I will kick ass :)
[00:24] <Bodsda> fair play -- cheers for the clarification
[00:24] <sdennie> Bodsda: Burn them!
[00:24] <Hellow> lol
[00:24] <jamesrfla> +1 bodhi_zazen
[00:24] <st33med> :D
[00:24]  * nhandler hopes it does not come to that
[00:24] <Hellow> BANHAMMER
[00:24] <Bodsda> +1 nhandler
[00:24] <Joeb454> bodhi_zazen: I would say that in general, the council wouldn't discuss behaviour via the mailing list, rather via the IRC channel
[00:24] <Joeb454> sorry, I have epic lag
[00:24] <bodhi_zazen> +1 Joeb454
[00:24] <zu22> o/
[00:24] <thewrath> o/
[00:24] <st33med> What happened to beginner's council?
[00:24] <bodhi_zazen> complaints via mailing list, discussion in private
[00:24] <Rocket2DMn> bodhi_zazen, should I update the BT/IRC page to include info about contacting the council?
[00:24] <bodhi_zazen> we banned you st33med
[00:24] <st33med> D:
[00:25] <Joeb454> Rocket2DMn: I think so
[00:25] <bodhi_zazen> sure
[00:25] <Rocket2DMn> that is to say, i would update with info about what to do with complains or problems
[00:25] <nhandler> Rocket2DMn: Maybe a separate Council wiki page would be best
[00:25] <cprofitt> 0/
[00:25] <Joeb454> also, thewrath in regards to IRC behaviour, I have updated VoteBot's !ops factoid to display the correct list of ops (it's quite large)
[00:25] <bodhi_zazen> [ACTION]Complaints to bt mailing list, discussion in private
[00:25] <MootBot> ACTION received: Complaints to bt mailing list, discussion in private
[00:25] <zu22> o/
[00:25] <bodhi_zazen> go zul
[00:25] <thewrath> +1 Joeb454
[00:25] <nhandler> bodhi_zazen: BT Council mailing list, not BT list
[00:25] <zu22> the ip of someone who was in #uf-bt scanned my machine for open ports, should i have reported this to anyone? it wasn't a BT member
[00:26] <cprofitt> I would also like to recommend using +m to calm things down if it is non-voiced folks acting up
[00:26] <bodhi_zazen> zu22: lol
[00:26] <Hellow> D:
[00:26] <bgs100> cprofitt, but that even silences those who (don't have voice and) were not acting up
[00:26] <sdennie> cprofitt: I like that idea
[00:26] <bodhi_zazen> zu22: Well, we really do not have jurisdiction on that kind of thing
[00:27] <jamesrfla> zu22: that happened to me and it was a Ubuntu forum beginners team member
[00:27] <thewrath> o/
[00:27] <bodhi_zazen> If you feel harassed, mailing list or e mail me
[00:27] <cprofitt> bgs100, you are correct... but people evading bans find it not fun when they have no voice
[00:27] <zu22> bodhi_zazen: oh ok, just wonder what steps i should take
[00:27] <zu22> jamesrfla: ah i see
[00:27] <Joeb454> bgs100: we could temporarily voice the members that need to be if it comes to that
[00:27] <bodhi_zazen> +1 johnc4510
[00:27] <bodhi_zazen> lol
[00:27] <bodhi_zazen> servers johnc4510 for hanging here
[00:27] <bodhi_zazen> +1 Joeb454
[00:27] <bgs100> 1+ Joeb454
[00:27] <Vantrax> epic tab fail in this channel
[00:28] <zu22>  /msg hellow +1
[00:28] <zu22> oops
[00:28] <bodhi_zazen> thewrath: just  speak so long as it is on topic
[00:28] <Bodsda> fail
[00:28] <thewrath> okay bodhi_zazen
[00:28] <bodhi_zazen> any further comments on irc behavior ?
[00:29] <bodhi_zazen> I am *trying* to keep the channel a sfriendly and relaxed as possible
[00:29] <sdennie> I have a comment
[00:29] <bodhi_zazen> do what you want so long as we do not receive complaints :)
[00:29] <duanedes1gn> bodhi_zazen: +1
[00:29] <jamesrfla> o/
[00:29] <Bodsda> o/
[00:29] <thewrath> +1 bodhi_zazen
[00:29] <Rocket2DMn> within the CoC of course
[00:30] <duanedes1gn> Rocket2DMn:  absoloutely
[00:30] <sdennie> I think we should be open but not crazy in our censorship.
[00:30] <Vantrax> and all BT members should have signed the CoC
[00:30] <Bodsda> REMINDER: Bad/Vulgar language is not 'really' appropriate
[00:30] <bodhi_zazen> Off topic comments -> table until agenda items are covered
[00:30] <jamesrfla> bodhi_zazen: maybe we should create like a ubuntu forums beginners team club channel were the team can hang out and not have to worry about this problem
[00:30] <cprofitt> I would think ghetto language also does not fit
[00:30] <paultag> jamesrfla, -1
[00:30] <Bodsda> jamesrfla: create yet another room?
[00:30] <Hellow> oh god
[00:30] <bodhi_zazen> -1 we have too many channels already
[00:30] <paultag> jamesrfla, bad behavior is not tolerated anywhere
[00:30] <jamesrfla> just a idea
[00:31] <Hellow> -1
[00:31] <paultag> Sorry I am late
[00:31] <bodhi_zazen> additional comments :)
[00:31] <bodhi_zazen> and +1 sdennie
[00:31] <johnc4510> bodhi_zazen: did you need me?
[00:31] <cprofitt> having mock fights and other foolishness is not good either
[00:31] <johnc4510> saw you mentioned me
[00:31] <johnc4510> with a +1
[00:31] <nhandler> Nope johnc4510, tab failure
[00:31] <sdennie> cprofitt: Agreed
[00:31] <johnc4510> ah
[00:31] <cprofitt> it was tab failure johnc4510
[00:31] <paultag> o/
[00:31] <bodhi_zazen> no johnc4510 , tab failure, sorry
[00:31] <johnc4510> cool
[00:31] <Hellow> Basically, be mature and respectful and we will have no problems
[00:31] <johnc4510> thought i was being volunteered hee hee
[00:31] <cprofitt> hello by the way johnc4510
[00:31] <johnc4510> later
[00:32] <Bodsda> bye
[00:32] <paultag> o/
[00:32] <johnc4510> cprofitt: hey
[00:32] <bodhi_zazen> paultag: just go ahead so long as it is on topic
[00:32] <cprofitt> one other thought -- if a Jedi Knight goes OP
[00:32] <paultag> I think we need to moderate a little more tightly in the chan. We are having a lot of issues lately. I know Rocket2DMn will hate me for this, but I think we need to give IRC FG a bit more leway with moderation.
[00:32] <cprofitt> everyone should reflect on their behavior and calm down
[00:32] <cprofitt> none of us like taking out the kick/ban stick
[00:32] <bodhi_zazen> yes paultag
[00:32] <paultag> It is out of hand
[00:33] <bodhi_zazen> report issues on mailing list please
[00:33] <bodhi_zazen> and I agree, especially at "off hours"
[00:33] <thewrath> o/
[00:33] <jamesrfla> I haven't seen any of this behavoir but if I do see it should I just bring it up with the cousil?
[00:33] <paultag> on that note I need to go :P
[00:33] <bodhi_zazen> mailing list james
[00:33] <Hellow> bye paultag
[00:33] <bodhi_zazen> OK, focus groups ?
[00:34] <bodhi_zazen> then elections
[00:34] <bodhi_zazen> [TOPIC] Education FG
[00:34] <MootBot> New Topic:  Education FG
[00:34] <zu22> o/
[00:34] <bodhi_zazen> cprofitt: :)
[00:34] <cprofitt> ?
[00:34] <cprofitt> this was on the agenda?
[00:34] <jamesrfla> ?
[00:34] <bodhi_zazen> anything on educatino ?
[00:34] <Hellow> ..it was?
[00:34]  * cprofitt looks for notes
[00:34] <Vantrax> who put it there?
[00:34]  * jamesrfla didn't see it in agenda 
[00:35]  * Hellow looks
[00:35] <Vantrax> not there:P
[00:35] <Bodsda> cprofitt: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Meetings#FG%20Leader%20Nominations
[00:35] <PartyBoi2> it's not there lol
[00:35] <bodhi_zazen> if you have an on topic comment, feel free, otherwise hold to end of meetign
[00:35] <zu22> My idea for Education FG is to print BT bumber stickers and t-shirts and sell them. And the profits go into a fund we use to advertize Ubuntu.
[00:35] <st33med> ... That's not educational
[00:35] <Bodsda> zu22: read the post above yours
[00:35] <Bodsda> :)
[00:35] <zu22> Bodsda: ok
[00:35] <Bodsda> nice idea though
[00:35] <cprofitt> Um... the education team is involved in a project...
[00:36] <bodhi_zazen> OK, as I am sure everyone knows, I (we) are in process of throwing up a moodle site
[00:36] <cprofitt> the project is called the Ubuntu Community Learning Project
[00:36] <st33med> Ooooh
[00:36] <bgs100> moodle?
[00:36] <bodhi_zazen> we have broad and ever growing support :)
[00:36] <bgs100> What's that?
[00:36] <cprofitt> it involves using Moodle to tie together existing content
[00:36] <cprofitt> to make courses
[00:36] <cprofitt> We gave a session during open week
[00:37] <cprofitt> and are preparing to present the idea to the CC
[00:37] <cprofitt> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning
[00:37] <bodhi_zazen> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-learning
[00:37] <cprofitt> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning
[00:37] <bodhi_zazen> [LINK]https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-learning
[00:37] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning
[00:37] <MootBot> LINK received: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-learning
[00:37] <nhandler> [LINK] https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-learning
[00:37] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-learning
[00:37] <nhandler> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning
[00:37] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning
[00:38] <cprofitt> I think that is about all... Vantrax anything to add?
[00:38] <sdennie> That's a lot of links
[00:38] <bodhi_zazen> We will likely present to the CC on June 2nd - so I will of course be demanding your presence and suport :)
[00:38] <Vantrax> not really, ill make a point of looking at the items on the bottom of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning
[00:38] <cprofitt> I would like to thank bodhi_zazen Vantrax and pleia2 for their efforts...
[00:38] <Vantrax> were looking for everyone to contribute on what they want covered.
[00:38] <thewrath> o/
[00:39] <ibuclaw> Vantrax, awesome ;)
[00:39] <bodhi_zazen> I purchased a server and colocation, am open to contributions / assistance with sys admin, etc
[00:39] <cprofitt> go ahead thewrath
[00:39] <bodhi_zazen> I will likely offer VPS to BT members as I posted on our MAILING LIST
[00:39] <cprofitt> yeah bodhi_zazen is putting REAL money in to this endeavor
[00:39] <cprofitt> he deserves major mojo and thanks
[00:39] <st33med> Not e-money?
[00:39] <bodhi_zazen> no, no, no, please no :)
[00:39] <Bodsda> monopoly-cash?
[00:40] <st33med> Canadian money?
[00:40] <st33med> Euros?
[00:40] <jgoguen> st33med: hey! :P
[00:40] <st33med> :P
[00:40] <thewrath> i will contribute the tutorials i have made into courses for that just an fyi i guess
[00:40] <bodhi_zazen> [TOPIC] Wiki team ?
[00:40] <MootBot> New Topic:  Wiki team ?
[00:40] <Rocket2DMn> yeah hey
[00:40] <bodhi_zazen> Rocket2DMn: you are up
[00:40] <Rocket2DMn> the Wiki FG will be holding a meeting immediately following this team meeting.
[00:41] <Rocket2DMn> I was planning on having it in the team channel, but if that is too busy, we could go to #ubuntu-doc
[00:41] <bgs100> g2g
[00:41] <bgs100> storm
[00:41] <Rocket2DMn> All Wiki FG members should be in that channel anyway
[00:41] <bodhi_zazen> Sweet :)
[00:41] <Rocket2DMn> anybody else interested in contributing to documentation should talk to me
[00:41] <bgs100> nvm
[00:41] <Rocket2DMn> that is all
[00:41] <bodhi_zazen> Wiki of course feeds into community learning
[00:42] <bodhi_zazen> and work on forums as well
[00:42] <bodhi_zazen> I even contributed to the wiki , so please assist if you have an interest in documentation
[00:42] <Rocket2DMn> ill be calling on you to help with wiki later bodhi_zazen  :) there are pages that could use your expertise
[00:42] <bodhi_zazen> Any other FG want to report in ?
[00:43] <bodhi_zazen> OK Rocket2DMn :)
[00:43] <nhandler> LP is fine
[00:43] <st33med> Where are these stickers coming in?
[00:43] <bodhi_zazen> if there are no other FG to report in -- Elections ?
[00:43]  * cprofitt nods to elections
[00:43] <Joeb454> sounds good
[00:44] <bodhi_zazen> To be honest , we have exactly what we need on the wiki page , no ?
[00:44] <st33med> I elect Joeb454 to be Vice Buddhist
[00:44]  * Joeb454 will not be standing again for IRC, I didn't even notice my name up there
[00:44] <Rocket2DMn> we have 15 minutes left guys
[00:44] <bodhi_zazen> shall we just vote to accept all members en mass ?
[00:44] <Vantrax> lol
[00:44] <bodhi_zazen> or do you want to vote on each ?
[00:44] <Vantrax> who do we have?
[00:44] <bodhi_zazen> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Meetings
[00:44] <bodhi_zazen> scroll down a bit
[00:45] <cprofitt> I think we need to vote on each and have the nominees agree that they are willing to serve
[00:45] <nhandler> We have a US Teams meeting in here after us, so we need to be done on time
[00:45] <Rocket2DMn> we only have 2, lets just do them individually
[00:45] <duanedes1gn> Ash_R is not here?
[00:45] <cprofitt> as noted Joeb454 just said he would not be
[00:45]  * sdennie is glad to not be the leader of a FG.  (Or is he?!)
[00:45] <Bodsda> duanedes1gn: no, he is working
[00:45] <bodhi_zazen> Rocket2DMn: we have 9
[00:45] <Rocket2DMn> oh youre talking about FGs bodhi_zazen ?
[00:45] <bodhi_zazen> [TOPIC] Vote on FG Leads
[00:45] <MootBot> New Topic:  Vote on FG Leads
[00:45] <Vantrax> oh
[00:45] <Rocket2DMn> oh ok, are there even any competitors?
[00:45] <bodhi_zazen> sorry , me bad
[00:46] <Vantrax> im assuming everyone is planning on staying?
[00:46] <bodhi_zazen> no, these have left their competition behind
[00:46] <bodhi_zazen> lol
[00:46] <cprofitt> Vantrax, Joeb454 expressed not wanting too
[00:46]  * nhandler would be glad to have someone replace him
[00:46] <nhandler> (or volunteer to co-lead)
[00:46] <Joeb454> I would postpone it until the next meeting, so we can have time to discuss it porperly
[00:46] <Vantrax> anyone up for replacing either of them, or co lead
[00:46] <jamesrfla> replace who?
[00:46] <bodhi_zazen> [VOTE] Accept all 9 nominations for FG leads
[00:46] <MootBot> Please vote on:  Accept all 9 nominations for FG leads.
[00:46] <MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
[00:46] <MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
[00:46] <bodhi_zazen> +1
[00:46] <st33med> Joeb454, we already postponed it once :)
[00:46] <MootBot> +1 received from bodhi_zazen. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
[00:47] <nhandler> +0
[00:47] <MootBot> Abstention received from nhandler. 1 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 1
[00:47] <Rocket2DMn> +1
[00:47] <MootBot> +1 received from Rocket2DMn. 2 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 2
[00:47] <PartyBoi2> +0
[00:47] <MootBot> Abstention received from PartyBoi2. 2 for, 0 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 2
[00:47] <swoody_> +1
[00:47] <jamesrfla> +1 I guess
[00:47] <MootBot> +1 received from swoody_. 3 for, 0 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 3
[00:47] <MootBot> +1 received from jamesrfla. 4 for, 0 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 4
[00:47] <Vantrax> +0
[00:47] <MootBot> Abstention received from Vantrax. 4 for, 0 against. 3 have abstained. Count is now 4
[00:47] <bodhi_zazen> Joeb454: we have been discussing it for some time :)
[00:47] <bgs100> +0
[00:47] <MootBot> Abstention received from bgs100. 4 for, 0 against. 4 have abstained. Count is now 4
[00:47] <Bodsda> +0
[00:47] <MootBot> Abstention received from Bodsda. 4 for, 0 against. 5 have abstained. Count is now 4
[00:47] <sdennie> +0
[00:47] <MootBot> Abstention received from sdennie. 4 for, 0 against. 6 have abstained. Count is now 4
[00:47] <st33med> +0
[00:47] <MootBot> Abstention received from st33med. 4 for, 0 against. 7 have abstained. Count is now 4
[00:47] <ds305> +2
[00:47] <duanedes1gn> +0
[00:47] <Joeb454> nhandler: replace who?
[00:47] <MootBot> Abstention received from duanedes1gn. 4 for, 0 against. 8 have abstained. Count is now 4
[00:47] <Hellow> +0
[00:47] <MootBot> Abstention received from Hellow. 4 for, 0 against. 9 have abstained. Count is now 4
[00:47] <ds305> +1
[00:47] <MootBot> +1 received from ds305. 5 for, 0 against. 9 have abstained. Count is now 5
[00:47] <cprofitt> +0
[00:47] <MootBot> Abstention received from cprofitt. 5 for, 0 against. 10 have abstained. Count is now 5
[00:47] <Joeb454> -1
[00:47] <MootBot> -1 received from Joeb454. 5 for, 1 against. 10 have abstained. Count is now 4
[00:47] <zu22> +0
[00:47] <MootBot> Abstention received from zu22. 5 for, 1 against. 11 have abstained. Count is now 4
[00:47] <nhandler> Joeb454: I think he was talking about you and me
[00:47] <bodhi_zazen> [ENDVOTE]
[00:47] <MootBot> Final result is 5 for, 1 against. 11 abstained. Total: 4
[00:47] <sdennie> I think the FG leads should be a separate meeting
[00:48] <bodhi_zazen> 11 Abstained , lol
[00:48] <Vantrax> i agree sdennie
[00:48] <cprofitt> I think we need to have a sep. meeting with time to discuss
[00:48] <swoody_> sdennie +1
[00:48] <PartyBoi2> +1 sdennie
[00:48] <Joeb454> nhandler: I wouldn't mind somebody replacing me
[00:48] <cprofitt> I think the 11 abstained count indicated that
[00:48] <bodhi_zazen> OK, FG leads next meeting then
[00:48] <nhandler> New members?
[00:48] <Rocket2DMn> ok, lets do our two padawans
[00:48] <cprofitt> we should ask everyone nominated to remove their names if they are not interested
[00:48] <Bodsda> thewrath is the only one
[00:48] <bodhi_zazen> Wait - BUT I really do not want to put FG leads off beyond that
[00:49] <bodhi_zazen> we have been discussing FG leads for some time now
[00:49] <nhandler> bodhi_zazen: We only decided to hold an election at the last BT Council meeting
[00:49] <bodhi_zazen> [TOPIC]New Members
[00:49] <MootBot> New Topic: New Members
[00:49] <cprofitt> bodhi_zazen, we could take the FG vote to our channel immediately after this
[00:49] <cprofitt> so we have time
[00:49] <Hellow> 10 mins
[00:49] <Vantrax> cprofitt: +1
[00:49] <sdennie> bodhi_zazen: I almost think it's a big enough subject that it should have it's own meeting.
[00:49] <bodhi_zazen> thewrath:
[00:49] <bodhi_zazen> you are up :)
[00:50] <Rocket2DMn> thewrath, can you tell us your wiki page?
[00:50] <bodhi_zazen> sdennie: I am OK with that so long as :
[00:50] <bodhi_zazen> 1. People show up
[00:50] <nhandler> +1 sdennie
[00:50] <thewrath> ok hold on
[00:50] <bodhi_zazen> 2. We make progess
[00:50] <thewrath> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/thewrath
[00:50] <bodhi_zazen> comments from nhandler ?
[00:51] <nhandler> I would just like to say that thewrath has really done a great job of interacting with the team in the month or so that he has been around
[00:51] <nhandler> I think he would make a great addition
[00:51] <bodhi_zazen> ufw has a gui interface thewrath = gufw
[00:51] <thewrath> yes that is on my next plate to do tutorial for
[00:51] <bodhi_zazen> [VOTE] thewrath for membership
[00:51] <MootBot> Please vote on:  thewrath for membership.
[00:51] <MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
[00:51] <MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
[00:51] <cprofitt> +1
[00:51] <MootBot> +1 received from cprofitt. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
[00:51] <sdennie> +1
[00:51] <MootBot> +1 received from sdennie. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
[00:51] <nhandler> +1
[00:51] <bodhi_zazen> +1
[00:51] <MootBot> +1 received from nhandler. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
[00:51] <MootBot> +1 received from bodhi_zazen. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
[00:51] <swoody_> +1
[00:51] <MootBot> +1 received from swoody_. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
[00:51] <Bodsda> +1
[00:51] <bgs100> +1
[00:51] <ds305> +1
[00:51] <MootBot> +1 received from Bodsda. 6 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 6
[00:51] <Rocket2DMn> +1
[00:51] <MootBot> +1 received from bgs100. 7 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 7
[00:51] <jamesrfla> +1
[00:51] <Hellow> +1
[00:51] <MootBot> +1 received from ds305. 8 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 8
[00:51] <MootBot> +1 received from Rocket2DMn. 9 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 9
[00:51] <jgoguen> +1
[00:52] <zu22> +1
[00:52] <MootBot> +1 received from jamesrfla. 10 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 10
[00:52] <PartyBoi2> +1
[00:52] <MootBot> +1 received from Hellow. 11 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 11
[00:52] <duanedes1gn> +1
[00:52] <Vantrax> +1
[00:52] <MootBot> +1 received from jgoguen. 12 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 12
[00:52] <MootBot> +1 received from zu22. 13 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 13
[00:52] <MootBot> +1 received from PartyBoi2. 14 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 14
[00:52] <MootBot> +1 received from duanedes1gn. 15 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 15
[00:52] <MootBot> +1 received from Vantrax. 16 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 16
[00:52] <zu22> +1
[00:52] <bodhi_zazen> [ENDVOTE]
[00:52] <MootBot> Final result is 16 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 16
[00:52] <Vantrax> lol zu22 dont vote twice:P
[00:52] <bgs100> Wow
[00:52] <bodhi_zazen> Welcome thewrath
[00:52] <duanedes1gn> wow
[00:52] <zu22> lol sorry my session is lagging bad
[00:52] <Bodsda> Congrats thewrath
[00:52] <jamesrfla> Welcome thewrath
[00:52] <bodhi_zazen> OK, last member
[00:52] <bgs100> That was unanimous
[00:52] <Hellow> lol
[00:52] <bodhi_zazen> Ash R
[00:52] <Bodsda> bodhi_zazen: he is not here
[00:53] <bodhi_zazen> neither of them could make it
[00:53] <Hellow> bodhi_zazen: What is his IRC nick?
[00:53] <Vantrax> we can vote with them absent
[00:53] <nhandler> thewrath: Be sure to send me your LP nick
[00:53] <bodhi_zazen> both spoke to me b4 the meeting
[00:53] <thewrath> okay nhandler
[00:53] <duanedes1gn> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Ash%20R
[00:53] <bodhi_zazen> Anyone wish to speak on AshR ?
[00:53] <bodhi_zazen> Thank you duanedes1gn
[00:54] <bodhi_zazen> IMO AshR has been awesome :)
[00:54] <Hellow> I barely know AshR
[00:54] <cprofitt> +1 bodhi_zazen
[00:54] <swoody_> bodhi_zazen +1
[00:54] <Bodsda> I like the guy/girl -- +1
[00:54] <ibuclaw> he's British, so he gets my vote :P
[00:54] <bodhi_zazen> [VOTE] AshR for membership
[00:54] <MootBot> Please vote on:  AshR for membership.
[00:54] <MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
[00:54] <MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
[00:54] <Vantrax> I havent really see ashr, seems nice tho
[00:54] <bodhi_zazen> +1
[00:54] <MootBot> +1 received from bodhi_zazen. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
[00:54] <nhandler> +0
[00:54] <PartyBoi2> +1
[00:54] <cprofitt> +1
[00:54] <MootBot> Abstention received from nhandler. 1 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 1
[00:54] <MootBot> +1 received from PartyBoi2. 2 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 2
[00:54] <Snova> +1
[00:54] <ibuclaw> +1
[00:54] <Hellow> +0
[00:54] <Bodsda> +1
[00:54] <MootBot> +1 received from cprofitt. 3 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 3
[00:54] <swoody_> +1
[00:54] <Rocket2DMn> +1
[00:54] <jamesrfla> +1
[00:54] <MootBot> +1 received from Snova. 4 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 4
[00:54] <tim_sharitt> +1
[00:54] <ds305> +1
[00:54] <Vantrax> +0
[00:54] <MootBot> +1 received from ibuclaw. 5 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 5
[00:54] <MootBot> Abstention received from Hellow. 5 for, 0 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 5
[00:54] <jgoguen> +1
[00:54] <MootBot> +1 received from Bodsda. 6 for, 0 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 6
[00:54] <MootBot> +1 received from swoody_. 7 for, 0 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 7
[00:54] <MootBot> +1 received from Rocket2DMn. 8 for, 0 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 8
[00:54] <MootBot> +1 received from jamesrfla. 9 for, 0 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 9
[00:55] <jamesrfla> Lag
[00:55] <MootBot> +1 received from tim_sharitt. 10 for, 0 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 10
[00:55] <duanedes1gn> +0
[00:55] <MootBot> +1 received from ds305. 11 for, 0 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 11
[00:55] <MootBot> Abstention received from Vantrax. 11 for, 0 against. 3 have abstained. Count is now 11
[00:55] <Joeb454> WOW - 45s lag - I missed the entire vote
[00:55] <MootBot> +1 received from jgoguen. 12 for, 0 against. 3 have abstained. Count is now 12
[00:55] <MootBot> Abstention received from duanedes1gn. 12 for, 0 against. 4 have abstained. Count is now 12
[00:55] <bodhi_zazen> [ENDVOTE]
[00:55] <MootBot> Final result is 12 for, 0 against. 4 abstained. Total: 12
[00:55] <zu22> +0
[00:55] <zu22> doh
[00:55] <bodhi_zazen> We have 5 minutes
[00:55] <jgoguen> lol
[00:55] <bgs100> zu22, Fail
[00:55] <bodhi_zazen> Other issues ?
[00:55] <zu22> bgs100: heh
[00:55]  * Bodsda thinks we should have a team song
[00:55] <bodhi_zazen> Next meeting, 2 weeks
[00:56] <swoody_> Bodsda +1
[00:56] <cprofitt> shall we move the FG lead vote to our channel or table til next meeting?
[00:56] <Vantrax> bodhi_zazen: FG Lead in channel after?
[00:56] <nhandler> Sounds good bodhi_zazen. I'll update the calendars
[00:56] <bgs100> Bodsda, ROFL
[00:56] <bodhi_zazen> Agenda next meeting - FG leads ?
[00:56] <bodhi_zazen> I do not think we should have an ad-hoc meeting on FG leads now
[00:56] <nhandler> +1 bodhi_zazen
[00:56] <Vantrax> everyone is here
[00:56] <cprofitt> ok... then table it until next time... that is fine with me...
[00:56] <bodhi_zazen> The wiki FG is meeting
[00:57] <Vantrax> ahh
[00:57] <Bodsda> right, im off to bed guys -- almost 1am here -- im +1 for listed fg leads and +0 for any changes
[00:57] <Vantrax> good point
[00:57] <bodhi_zazen> and as people feel there was not enough discussion we need to set a time
[00:57] <zu22> gtg cya
[00:57] <bodhi_zazen> People are leaving after this meeting
[00:57] <bodhi_zazen> see ^^
[00:57] <bodhi_zazen> so, it is not "fair" to proceed IMO
[00:57] <Bodsda> guess i can stay for a sec
[00:58] <Rocket2DMn> we're basically out of time
[00:58] <jamesrfla> bodhi_zazen: might as well just end the meeting
[00:58] <bodhi_zazen> Other issues ?
[00:58] <nhandler> Nope
[00:58]  * Bodsda still thinks we need a song
[00:58] <bgs100> Is the meeting officially over?
[00:58] <bodhi_zazen> [ENDMEETING]
[00:58] <bodhi_zazen> I have 3 min left on my clock Rocket2DMn
[00:58] <swoody_> bgs100-> now it is :)
[00:58] <nhandler> #endmeeting bodhi_zazen
[00:58]  * bgs100 takes that as a yes
[00:58] <Rocket2DMn> i have 1 min left on mine
[00:58] <Hellow> i have two
[00:58] <Bodsda> 2 mins on mine
[00:58] <bgs100> I have 2 also
[00:58] <swoody_> two here
[00:58] <bodhi_zazen> tis over now :)
[00:59] <Hellow> Lets use two minutes saying how much time we have left XD
[00:59] <Bodsda> no point in wasting the time
[00:59] <Bodsda> 1
[00:59] <Rocket2DMn> no you need to #ENDMEETING i think bodhi_zazen
[00:59] <Hellow> 2
[00:59] <nhandler> Rocket2DMn: I just said that ;)
[00:59] <Hellow> oh, 1 now
[00:59] <Rocket2DMn> i know nhandler , im just a copycat
[00:59] <bgs100> 1 now too
[01:00] <Bodsda> finished :)
[01:00] <Bodsda> 01:00
[01:00] <Bodsda> night guys
[01:00] <Rocket2DMn> bodhi_zazen, i dont think the meeting ended, the bot didnt say so
[01:00] <nhandler> bodhi_zazen: End the meeting
[01:00] <Hellow> bodhi_zazen: pring
[01:01] <Hellow> bodhi_zazen: L00K
[01:01] <cprofitt> yeah its #ENDMEETING
[01:01] <Vantrax> bodhi has to run it tho
[01:01] <Hellow> It didnt end it, I didnt see the bot respond
[01:02] <jamesrfla> +1 Hellow
[01:02] <bodhi_zazen> #ENDMEETING
[01:02] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 19:02.
[01:02] <bodhi_zazen> lol
[01:02] <Hellow> that works
[01:02] <Vantrax> NOOB
[01:02] <thewrath>  /leave
[01:02] <Vantrax> he he he
[01:02] <bodhi_zazen> totally :)
[15:10]  * zaafouri is away (brb =))
[15:12]  * zaafouri is away (brb =))
[15:59] <evand> hi ya
[15:59] <robbiew> #startmeeting
[15:59] <MootBot> Meeting started at 09:59. The chair is robbiew.
[15:59] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[15:59] <robbiew> hi
[15:59] <cjwatson> afternoon
[16:00]  * james_w waves
[16:00] <TheMuso> Greetings
[16:00] <robbiew> hey TheMuso, I haven't forgot about the meeting time issue
[16:00] <TheMuso> robbiew: ok
[16:00]  * slangasek waves
[16:00]  * Keybuk dances
[16:00] <robbiew> liw is sick
[16:01] <Keybuk> swine flu?
[16:01] <robbiew> lol
[16:01] <slangasek> and he's also under the weather
[16:01] <robbiew> mvo: doko: here?
[16:01] <Keybuk> mvo is on a call to the room I'm sitting in
[16:02] <robbiew> ah
[16:02] <doko> yes
[16:02] <robbiew> the infamous pre-UDS DX sprint
[16:02] <Keybuk> ♥ DX
[16:02] <robbiew> Keybuk: gotcha ;), thnx
[16:03] <robbiew> we should get started....going to be short as I'm drowning in PDRs
[16:03] <TheMuso> shorter is better for me. :)
[16:03] <Keybuk> oh, yeah, that
[16:03] <mvo> robbiew: yes
[16:03] <mvo> robbiew: but as Keybuk said, in a call
[16:03] <robbiew> mvo: no worries
[16:03] <mvo> I will just multitask :P
[16:04] <Keybuk> 8F. Promptness in filling in performance reviews   (o) ( ) ( ) ( ) ( )
[16:04] <cjwatson> stop, you're giving me nightmares
[16:04] <robbiew> [TOPIC] Karmic Alpha 1
[16:04] <MootBot> New Topic:  Karmic Alpha 1
[16:05] <robbiew> didn't we JUST do a release?
[16:05] <robbiew> jeesh
[16:05] <mvo> it never stops!
[16:05] <cjwatson> I literally just cleared away the alpha-1 blockers I own about two hours ago
[16:05] <cjwatson> or, at least, the blockers I know about ...
[16:05] <doko> hmm, maybe we should care about build failures before the release?
[16:06] <doko> armel currently is not releasable, needs a manual gcc-4.4 build at least
[16:06] <cjwatson> any other big important ones? I'm more concerned about things that cause uninstallability, personally
[16:07]  * Keybuk has a udev update to go in on friday
[16:07] <cjwatson> currently slightly mystified by http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/testing-ports/karmic_probs.html being full of rubbish that I can't reproduce under chdist :-/
[16:07]  * TheMuso ran into libltdl package uninstallability stuff, but hasn't dug into it deeply.
[16:07] <TheMuso> I just retried my builds, and will wait to see what happens.
[16:07] <cjwatson> TheMuso: there was a problem due to some packages, including libltdl, being in universe by accident
[16:07] <cjwatson> I fixed that yesterday
[16:07] <TheMuso> cjwatson: ah
[16:07] <doko> openjdk will need a manual build as well (armel only)
[16:07] <cjwatson> though it does keep on coming up
[16:07] <slangasek> bwah, why is karmic_probs full *again*?
[16:07] <TheMuso> cjwatson: ok so my retries should succeed then./
[16:08] <cjwatson> (ah, and now I see my chdist problem)
[16:08] <cjwatson> slangasek: my guess is http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/architecture-mismatches.txt
[16:08] <cjwatson> fixing now ...
[16:08] <slangasek> yeesh
[16:09] <cjwatson> somebody's asleep at the wheel while driving NEW, but I have yet to figure out exactly who and why
[16:09] <cjwatson> I fixed what I thought was one of the major causes
[16:09] <slangasek> I'm wondering if there's an LP behavior change here
[16:10] <cjwatson> this isn't entirely a new problem, although the prevalence is a bit startling
[16:11] <robbiew> slangasek: did Riddell agree to cover for you next week?
[16:12] <slangasek> robbiew: haven't caught him yet, actually; pitti is assuring me that it's not a problem for him to cover - but I will talk to Riddell anyway to make sure at least Kubuntu is covered
[16:15] <robbiew> slangasek: okay
[16:15] <cjwatson> I suspect that we could do with a mass give-back before alpha-1
[16:15] <cjwatson> at least, once the current buildd logjam clears
[16:16] <cjwatson> we had some fairly long intervals where e.g. core GNOME libraries were uninstallable on several architectures
[16:17] <robbiew> okay...moving along
[16:17] <robbiew> [TOPIC] UDS Karmic
[16:17] <MootBot> New Topic:  UDS Karmic
[16:18] <robbiew> I've scheduled everything that I know about
[16:18] <slangasek> pointer to the current schedule?
[16:18] <Keybuk> http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-karmic/foundations-a/ ?
[16:18] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-karmic/foundations-a/ ?
[16:18] <robbiew> if you've created a blueprint and need it scheduled in our track or another teams, i suggest you email me or the track manager
[16:18] <robbiew> and some in http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-karmic/foundations-b/
[16:20]  * cjwatson remembers that he probably needs to register for the sprint
[16:20] <cjwatson> (and, I'm betting, so do a number of other people)
[16:20] <robbiew> yes
[16:21]  * TheMuso does so
[16:21] <cjwatson> is there anything else major that team members need to do before UDS?
[16:22] <cjwatson> I assume that in general we need to do prep work
[16:22] <slangasek> oh cool, the schedule just broke :)
[16:22] <robbiew> heh
[16:22] <robbiew> Keybuk can fix it :)
[16:23] <robbiew> cjwatson: not really, I suppose I need to make sure I have someone to lead the discussions for each session
[16:23] <robbiew> I will do that early next week
[16:24] <TheMuso> yep, somewhat spectacularly.
[16:25] <robbiew> [TOPIC] LSB
[16:25] <MootBot> New Topic:  LSB
[16:25] <robbiew> http://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lsb/+bug/370066
[16:25] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lsb/+bug/370066
[16:25] <robbiew> I need some help with this "bug"
[16:26] <slangasek> robbiew: erm; targeted to 8.04.3?  Is hardy actually compatible with LSB 4?
[16:26] <robbiew> yep...according to the LSB folks.  I have been working with them to get this done
[16:27] <robbiew> I will forward the email from Ted
[16:27] <slangasek> ok
[16:27] <robbiew> apparently both 8.04 and 9.04 are compliant*
[16:27] <robbiew> * = some excusable failures apparently
[16:28] <cjwatson> it's not a huge patch, and relatively unlikely to be invasive; but for karmic we should try to get Debian to go along
[16:28] <robbiew> they are willing to mark us as compliant, if we make the changes to our package
[16:28] <robbiew> cjwatson: do you think they will be open to it?
[16:29] <robbiew> they = Debian
[16:29] <slangasek> there's no reason why they shouldn't
[16:29] <cjwatson> don't see why they wouldn't be, indeed
[16:29] <robbiew> I suppose that would make things easier on us
[16:30] <cjwatson> slangasek: wanna take this up with Chris Lawrence?
[16:31] <slangasek> ok
[16:31] <slangasek> (assigning bug to me)
[16:31] <cjwatson> thanks a lot
[16:31] <robbiew> slangasek: thanks
[16:31] <robbiew> [TOPIC] PDRs
[16:31] <MootBot> New Topic:  PDRs
[16:31] <robbiew> yay!
[16:32] <robbiew> The deadline is this Friday (if I recall correctly)
[16:32] <cjwatson> yeah, I suck currently but should make it
[16:32]  * robbiew sucks REAL bad...stupid UDS scheduling! :P
[16:32] <james_w> I heard a hint that the deadline was just for the multiple choice part, is that correct?
[16:33] <james_w> i.e. we don't have to write objectives for Friday
[16:33] <TheMuso> james_w: thats how I understand it yes.
[16:33] <cjwatson> I'm not authoritative for this time round, but in the past, objectives have been something that you write after discussion with your manager, i.e. after the verbal review
[16:34] <robbiew> right
[16:34] <james_w> ok, thanks
[16:34] <robbiew> but you need to do more than the multiple choice part...I believe the written part concerning your objectives from this cycle is also needed
[16:35] <TheMuso> yes that sounds about right.
[16:35]  * TheMuso remembers doing that.
[16:36] <cjwatson> gah, sorry
[16:36] <robbiew> [TOPIC] AOB/Good News?
[16:36] <MootBot> New Topic:  AOB/Good News?
[16:37] <cjwatson> the GTK d-i frontend actually appears to work with current GTK
[16:37] <james_w> eglibc. Presumably this would fall under our team. Does there need to be a discussion about it?
[16:37] <TheMuso> awesome!
[16:37] <cjwatson> so that's looking a lot more hopeful for karmic now
[16:37] <cjwatson> james_w: I believe it's still a bit up in the air in Debian ...
[16:38] <james_w> I can imagine
[16:38] <evand> I've got disk image support in usb-creator basically finished, but I'm still working on other bits before I merge my personal branch into trunk.
[16:38] <TheMuso> cjwatson: I dare say I and other studio users/testers would be happy to give it a run for studio when things are ready.
[16:38] <robbiew> just a reminder that doko starts his tour of duty in OEM next week...but still is welcome to attend this meeting :)
[16:39] <cjwatson> mostly I'm worried about lurking ABI breakage
[16:39] <cjwatson> if anyone can do this properly, codesourcery can, but I haven't found an accurate and up-to-date summary of changes from glibc to eglibc yet
[16:40] <doko> well, let's prepare eglibc-2.10 in a PPA ...
[16:40] <cjwatson> I'll be a lot happier if this does get through NEW and Debian adopts it
[16:41] <doko> it's being prepared for experimental
[16:42] <cjwatson> it's in NEW right now for unstable
[16:42] <Keybuk> slangasek, robbiew: summit is fixed again
[16:42] <Keybuk> rickspencer was trying to have a sneaky meeting alongside the monday morning plenary
[16:42] <robbiew> okay
[16:42] <robbiew> heh
[16:43] <robbiew> oh...Muharem has joined the team...I believe was sprinting with mvo last week
[16:43] <robbiew> :/
[16:43]  * robbiew forgot to invite him to the meeting
[16:43] <mvo> he is sprinting this week
[16:43] <doko> cjwatson: that's still 2.9
[16:43] <robbiew> ah...okay, cool
[16:43] <mvo> he is currently in this room with me :)
[16:43] <robbiew> :)
[16:44] <cjwatson> doko: oh, right
[16:44] <mvo> its going very well so far, he is a great addition to the team
[16:44] <cjwatson> doko: switching to 2.9 first would be better anyway so that we can easily distinguish problems caused by eglibc from problems caused by 2.10
[16:45] <dholbach> hiya al-maisan :-)
[16:45] <al-maisan> hello dholbach :)
[16:45]  * slangasek waves :)
[16:45] <james_w> hey al-maisan, welcom
[16:45] <al-maisan> thank you all :-)
[16:46] <robbiew> al-maisan: I'll setup a call with you soon...just been really busy this week with PDRs and UDS prep
[16:46] <robbiew> okay...anything else"
[16:46] <al-maisan> robbiew: no problem :)
[16:46] <robbiew> s/"/?
[16:48] <robbiew> #endmeeting
[16:48] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:48.
[16:48] <robbiew> thanks all!
[16:48] <james_w> thanks
[16:48] <evand> thanks
[16:48]  * TheMuso heads to bed
[16:48] <TheMuso> thanks
[16:49] <slangasek> thanks :)
[16:50] <mvo> thanks
[17:59] <heno> hello everyone
[17:59] <davmor2> hello
[17:59] <pedro_> hola!
[18:00] <ara> hola hola
[18:00] <intellectronica> 'allo
[18:01] <bdmurray> Hi!
[18:01]  * ogasawara waves
[18:01] <fader_> Howdy
[18:02] <cr3> yo homies
[18:02] <heno> ok, let's start!
[18:02] <heno> #startmeeting
[18:02] <MootBot> Meeting started at 12:02. The chair is heno.
[18:02] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[18:03] <heno> [TOPIC] UbuntuBugDay highlights -- pedro
[18:03] <MootBot> New Topic:  UbuntuBugDay highlights -- pedro
[18:03] <pedro_> The pas week we did a catch up new bugs for SRU and Karmic hug day it was pretty good but too much bugs to do there: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/20090430
[18:03] <pedro_> the list is quite big as you can see
[18:04] <pedro_> but anyways ~43 bugs were hugged, and jgoguen continue doing a good work on that front as every week
[18:04] <heno> ugh, lots indeed
[18:04] <pedro_> so thanks a lot to him and to bdmurray for the great work that day
[18:04] <andresmujica> hi
[18:04] <pedro_> Tomorrow we're celebrating a hug day based on... Compiz!
[18:05] <ara> pedro_: cool :)
[18:05] <heno> great :)
[18:05] <pedro_> page is up and people already started to work on it https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/20090507
[18:05] <pedro_> yeah jgoguen is a amazing we all know that ;-)
[18:05] <bdmurray> pedro_: One thing useful to do is reassign bugs to the plugin package if they are plugin related correct?
[18:05] <pedro_> so everybody is welcome to join us tomorrow to start squashing some bugs there
[18:06] <bdmurray> I mean specific to a particular plugin
[18:06] <pedro_> bdmurray: would be good as part of the triage process, yes indeed
[18:06] <heno> next
[18:06] <pedro_> i asked to mvo if he had any other particular task he want us to be focus during the hug day and he said not for now
[18:06] <heno> [TOPIC] New bug control members! -- bdmurray
[18:06] <MootBot> New Topic:  New bug control members! -- bdmurray
[18:07] <bdmurray> This week primes2h became a member of Bug Control.  He is specifically working on cleaning up old gutsy kernel tasks at the moment.
[18:08] <heno> great to see some specialisation!
[18:08] <bdmurray> that's it this week
[18:08] <heno> ok, thanks
[18:09] <heno> [TOPIC] Should we be looking at doing some hardcore stress testing to get fixes into karmic no that jaunty is out? -- davmor2
[18:09] <MootBot> New Topic:  Should we be looking at doing some hardcore stress testing to get fixes into karmic no that jaunty is out? -- davmor2
[18:09] <davmor2> there are some things available in jaunty that are likely to be default in karmic
[18:10] <davmor2> would it be worth stress testing these thing, like ext4 on the more stable jaunty than karmic
[18:10] <davmor2> if so what will be the best way to stress test things like ext4 and maybe banshee
[18:10] <ara> is banshee going to be the default player in karmic?
[18:10] <heno> Time might be better spent digging into ext4 bugs from jaunty
[18:10] <cr3> davmor2: might there be existing suites which could be leveraged for this?
[18:11] <ogasawara> there are already a few ext4 bugs that have been on the radar (some fixed)
[18:11] <heno> presumably lots of people are already using these new features
[18:11] <fader_> I imagine we've got a number of early adopters who will be using e.g. ext4 pretty heavily
[18:11] <davmor2> ara: likely as rhythmbox is nolonger being developed
[18:11] <pedro_> ara: there's going to be a discussion about the new default player for karmic at UDS, there's no decision yet
[18:11]  * cr3 is a user of ext4
[18:12]  * fader_ is as well.
[18:12] <pedro_> davmor2: which is not true ;-)
[18:13] <heno> looks like there is not much support for that test project, davmor2
[18:13] <fader_> If there are test suites defined for some of these things I think we can likely get people to run them
[18:13] <fader_> (I would happily run some tests if you can point me at some)
[18:13] <pedro_> btw https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-karmic-default-media-player-choice <-
[18:14] <ara> pedro_: can you point me to the blueprint (if any). It looks like an interesting discussion if it happens in a free slot for me :)
[18:14] <heno> looking into likely karmic changes so we can start tracking them makes sense though
[18:14] <sbeattie> davmor2: I think, for things like ext4 and X's UXA, finding issues with karmic's kernel/X stack might be more useful.
[18:14] <andresmujica> the test suspend stress would go into this right?
[18:15] <davmor2> sbeattie: this I know but it tends to be quite unstable initially which is why I thought it might be worth testing on jaunty
[18:15] <pedro_> ara: https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-karmic-default-media-player-choice
[18:15] <davmor2> pre alpha1
[18:15] <ara> pedro_: thanks :)
[18:15] <pedro_> ara: you're welcome
[18:16] <sbeattie> davmor2: I agree with you on unstable/broken in various ways, I briefly tested 2.6.30 because I have an i965 and had other issues (wifi's overrated anyway)
[18:16] <heno> davmor2: I think SRU testing for hardy/intrepid/jauntu would be time better spent
[18:17] <sbeattie> but the divergence is big enough that you may just end up hitting bugs that upstream has already fixed in what's in karmic.
[18:17] <davmor2> heno: fair enough it was more of a talking point at any rate :)
[18:17] <heno> ok, moving on then :)
[18:18] <sbeattie> it's worth thinking about stress tests in our testing regimen.
[18:18] <heno> [TOPIC] http://qa.ubuntu.com landing page. Any updates?
[18:18] <MootBot> New Topic:  http://qa.ubuntu.com landing page. Any updates?
[18:18] <heno> sbeattie: agreed
[18:18] <davmor2> sbeattie: I'm already stressed :)
[18:18] <schwuk> Pending an RT request which henrik and I are chasing.
[18:19] <ara> the other day mdz asked me why the landing page stated "ubuntu brainstorm". As if it was something new :)
[18:19] <heno> heh
[18:19] <mdz> ara: I never noticed it before :-)
[18:19] <mdz> or if I did, I forgot
[18:20] <heno> so, watch for a change any day now ...
[18:20] <heno> [TOPIC] Do we need bugsquad's team regular meetings? -- andresmujica
[18:20] <MootBot> New Topic:  Do we need bugsquad's team regular meetings? -- andresmujica
[18:20] <andresmujica> hi,
[18:20] <andresmujica> i believe that we need to hold regular meetings for bugsquad members
[18:21] <heno> +1
[18:21] <andresmujica> looking for a more streamlined process in bug triaging
[18:21] <pedro_> that'd be good at least once a month
[18:21] <andresmujica> yap
[18:21] <andresmujica> i believe that too
[18:21] <heno> should we bake them into bug days?
[18:21] <andresmujica> once a month would be ideal
[18:21] <andresmujica> hmm, i won't like that
[18:21] <andresmujica> because at bug days
[18:21] <heno> that would encourage more activity around them
[18:22] <andresmujica> it's already the packaging triaging sessions
[18:22] <bdmurray> Tuesdays?
[18:22] <andresmujica> and the bug day the work is distributed the whole day
[18:22] <pedro_> right, so what about a Tuesdays?
[18:22] <pedro_> heh
[18:22] <andresmujica> sure!
[18:22] <andresmujica> monthly or wweekly?
[18:23] <bdmurray> Let's start of with monthly and if there is lots to discuss move to weekly
[18:23] <andresmujica> i do agree!
[18:23] <heno> sounds good
[18:23] <heno> starting next Tuesday? what time?
[18:23] <andresmujica> so, what should i do?
[18:23] <pedro_> yeap, so Tuesday 12th as the first meeting?
[18:23] <andresmujica> make a wiki page with an initial set of topics?
[18:23] <bdmurray> I suggest we have the first on the 12th as some of will have conflicts on the 19th and 26th (UDS)
[18:23] <ara> andresmujica: blog, fridge
[18:24] <andresmujica> 12th is perfect!  same time?  16:00 UTC?
[18:25] <bdmurray> Is there anything else scheduled here then?
[18:25]  * pedro_ looks at the fridge
[18:25] <andresmujica> room is free at that time
[18:25] <andresmujica> just after the server team meeting
[18:25] <bdmurray> andresmujica: at 16 or 17 UTC its 17 now
[18:26] <pedro_> nothing as far as i can see, the desktop meeting is at 16:30 but that happens at #ubuntu-desktop and not here
[18:26] <ogasawara> the kernel team has their IRC meetings at 1700 UTC on tuesdays
[18:26] <andresmujica> ohh.. 17 UTC now   12:00 GMT -5 for me
[18:26] <bdmurray> 1600 is fine with me
[18:27] <andresmujica> for me too.
[18:27] <heno> pedro_, ogasawara ^ ?
[18:27] <davmor2> push come to shove you could always move it to #ubuntu-bugs if it does clash
[18:27] <ogasawara> works for me
[18:27] <pedro_> oops sorry. works fine for me
[18:28] <pedro_> davmor2: yeap
[18:28] <heno> ok, next
[18:28] <heno> [TOPIC] Specs/Blueprints/Ideas for UDS Karmic - Any more for any more? -- schwuk
[18:28] <MootBot> New Topic:  Specs/Blueprints/Ideas for UDS Karmic - Any more for any more? -- schwuk
[18:28] <schwuk> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/UDSKarmic
[18:28] <pedro_> andresmujica: if need help setting up something, just drop me a message
[18:29] <schwuk> We've created blueprints for all the proposed topics for KArmic (see link)
[18:29] <andresmujica> pedro: sure i'll do, thks
[18:29] <schwuk> Does anyone have anymore? for consideration?
[18:29] <schwuk> sbeattie: I've got yours too.
[18:29] <heno> thanks schwuk!
[18:29] <sbeattie> schwuk: cool, thanks.
[18:29] <andresmujica> so we need to subscribe to those specs for UDS attendees, right?
[18:29] <ara> schwuk: cool
[18:30] <pedro_> are they already on summit.ubuntu.com?
[18:30] <heno> we have two rooms this time so we can schedule smaller discussions in room B
[18:30] <heno> pedro_: yes but the order is  not final
[18:30] <pedro_> ah i answer myself: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-karmic/qa-a/
[18:30] <pedro_> heno: ok
[18:30] <ara> didn't we agree that blueprints is not the best match for every qa discussion?
[18:31] <heno> please, everyone: subscribe yourself to topics you are interested in
[18:31] <pedro_> heno: how someone can schedule a discussion on room B? should we do that at UDS or we can use the same wiki page?
[18:31] <pedro_> s/on/in
[18:31] <heno> pedro_: people with access to the summit admin page can do it
[18:32] <heno> which I think is ubuntu-drivers
[18:32] <heno> e can also schedule more in room B at UDS
[18:32] <pedro_> ah ok
[18:33] <heno> ara: right. some should just be discussion topics
[18:33] <heno> shall we make a non-spec discussion section on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/UDSKarmic ?
[18:33] <schwuk> I'm guessing no more topics then heno, so we can fill the gaps with discussions now
[18:34] <schwuk> heh
[18:34] <sbeattie> idea for session|discussion: regular benchmarking/stress testing to look for regressions?
[18:34] <schwuk> heno: I'm guessing you can schedule sessions without blueprints, right?
[18:35] <heno> schwuk: right, with summit site admin access
[18:35] <ara> schwuk: yes, in pink (roundtables, discussions, etc)
[18:35] <schwuk> sbeattie: it's a wiki :) go add it
[18:35] <heno> bdmurray: you have that access too right?
[18:36] <bdmurray> heno: yes
[18:36] <intellectronica> i'd like to have an opportunity to discuss qa tracking in launchpad with you guys, but there isn't any concrete proposal i can file as a blueprint. shall i file one anyway, or would you like to schedule a non-blueprint session for it?
[18:36] <davmor2> am I missing something how do you add you name
[18:36] <heno> so nag bdmurray, myself or any Ubuntu driver to add sessions :)
[18:37] <schwuk> intellectronica: there's also a request for a hwdb session i.e launchpadlib
[18:37] <andresmujica> hey, the X bug sessions that bryce has proposed aren't included within the QA specs?
[18:37] <intellectronica> maybe we should just schedule a malone/qa team summit session, where we can discuss all of that?
[18:37] <heno> intellectronica: please file a placeholder, I'm sure we'll have action items (a spec) after the discussion
[18:38] <intellectronica> heno: ok, will do
[18:39] <heno> andresmujica: are they on desktop, or unscheduled?
[18:40] <schwuk> intellectronica: added one to the wikipage I linked earlier for you
[18:40] <andresmujica> https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-karmic-troubleshooting-x-freezes-and-crashes
[18:40] <schwuk> heno: added a discussions section to that page
[18:40] <heno> thanks
[18:40] <intellectronica> schwuk: fanks
[18:41] <heno> seems to be unscheduled
[18:41] <andresmujica> this is another one desktop-karmic-intel-canonical-bug-process
[18:42] <heno> bdmurray: can you check if he wants that on the qa track?
[18:42] <andresmujica> and this one desktop-karmic-xorg-intel-upstreaming-working-session
[18:43] <bdmurray> heno: sure.  I'd also like to arrange a discussion w/ him regarding X bug auto handling
[18:43] <heno> bdmurray: cool, good breakout room discussion
[18:43] <heno> andresmujica: thanks for raising that
[18:43] <heno> Any other business?
[18:43] <andresmujica> np
[18:44] <bdmurray> A bit ago I sent an e-mail out about private bugs and a report of them
[18:44] <bdmurray> I noticed last night that there are some that ubuntu-universe-crashes isn't subscribed to and I've removed those from the report
[18:44] <bdmurray> Since we can't see them and therefore can't do anything...
[18:45] <bdmurray> I'll check with pitti regarding getting the crashes team subscribed to them
[18:45] <heno> ok
[18:45] <heno> do we need a UDS discussion about crash report triage btw?
[18:45] <bdmurray> Thanks everyone for helping out with those as the list is dwindling
[18:46] <sbeattie> bdmurray: did you think more about adding weighting to that list?
[18:47] <bdmurray> heno: I think there are a couple of things to discuss
[18:47] <bdmurray> sbeattie: I did think about it
[18:47] <heno> bdmurray: will you file a non-spec A-room topic?
[18:47] <bdmurray> sbeattie: maybe we can discuss the details after the meeting
[18:47] <sbeattie> bdmurray: sure thing
[18:48] <heno> right, any other other business?
[18:48] <heno> ok, thanks all!
[18:48] <heno> #endmeeting
[18:48] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:48.
[18:48] <davmor2> thanks
[18:48] <pedro_> gracias!
[18:49] <schwuk> thanks
[18:49] <ara> thanks!
[18:49] <andresmujica> thanks! nice meeting :)
[18:55] <eeejay> did i miss the meeting?
[18:55] <eeejay> there was a terrible netsplit, the worst since 1996
[18:55] <PeperJohnny> nothing yet
[18:56] <eeejay> oh, good
[18:59] <ara> eeejay: what meeting do you mean?
[18:59] <Riddell> ** Kubuntu meeting in two minutes in #ubuntu-meeting
[19:00] <ScottK> \o
[19:00] <apachelogger> o/
[19:00] <Mamarok> \0/
[19:00] <jfolsom> \oo/
[19:00] <eeejay> ara: the QA meeting
[19:01] <ara> eeejay: it was an hour ago :(
[19:01] <JontheEchidna> \o
[19:01] <a|wen_> :)
[19:01] <eeejay> ara: !
[19:01] <Tonio_> \o/
[19:01] <Lure> hello to all kubuntu friends!
[19:01]  * Tonio_ is happy to be able to be there at time, for once... :)
[19:01] <Nightrose> meep :)
[19:01] <Riddell> evening friends
[19:01] <Riddell> https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Meetings has an agenda
[19:02] <blizzz> moinmoin
[19:02] <Riddell> we should start with memership as is our normal way
[19:02] <Riddell> Mamarok: want to go first?
[19:02] <Mamarok> ok
[19:02] <Riddell> give us a few sentences on who you are and what you do in kubuntu
[19:02] <Mamarok> well, hi all
[19:03] <Riddell> oh and where's your wiki page
[19:03] <Mamarok> My wiki page can be fund here:
[19:03] <Mamarok> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MyriamSchweingruber
[19:03] <Mamarok> I am a long time KDE user, using Kubuntu since it's existence
[19:03] <Mamarok> as my nick shows I am also a Amarok person
[19:03] <Mamarok> and it reads Mama-rok :)
[19:04] <Mamarok> when my time allows it I give some support in #kubuntu and #kubuntu-de
[19:04] <Mamarok> ditto for triaging bugs
[19:05] <Riddell> and run the kubuntu-users mailing list
[19:05] <Mamarok> and of course handing out Kubuntu CDs at the SwissTeam events and various booths in Switzerland and Europe
[19:05] <Mamarok> welll,the mailing list moderation is something I try t least, not easy I admit...
[19:05] <Mamarok> try to* even
[19:06] <Riddell> Mamarok: what's the feeling like from our users on the jaunty release?
[19:06] <neversfelde> Mamarok is a relentless supporter in #kubuntu-de, too
[19:06] <Mamarok> neversfelde: thx :)
[19:06] <Mamarok> well, I hear both sounds, like it and don't like t, it's the usuall KDE 3 vs 4 shouting
[19:07] <Mamarok> but KDE 4 winds over as it seems :)
[19:07] <apachelogger> since she is in a way or another my mom I suppose we should make her member :P
[19:07] <Mamarok> apachelogger: :)
[19:07] <Tonio_> :)
[19:07] <neversfelde> :)
[19:07] <apachelogger> Mamarok: what are your thoughts about kubuntu l10n? :P
[19:07] <Mamarok> oh, did I forget to dsay that I'm a KDE 4 lover
[19:08] <Mamarok> ouch, I used Rosetta in it's beginning and stopped to some time ago
[19:08] <ScottK> Bonus points for making the attempt.
[19:08] <Mamarok> it's just too buggy for serious translation, messing up things, etc.
[19:09] <Tonio_> I unfortunatelly approve this...
[19:09] <Mamarok> let's very much hope they got the message now since apacheloggers mail
[19:09]  * apachelogger notes: need to report bugs and be pita about them
[19:09] <apachelogger> Mamarok: what are you doing over at amarok?
[19:10] <Mamarok> apachelogger: French and German translation of AKO
[19:10] <Mamarok> bug triaging
[19:10] <Riddell> Mamarok: of the many free software projects you're involved in, which has the coolest community?
[19:10] <maco> haha
[19:10] <apachelogger> uh
[19:10] <apachelogger> dont answer that!
[19:10] <Mamarok> Riddell: you are jokin, aren't you? KDE of course!!!
[19:10] <Riddell> and the best looking people
[19:10] <maco> someone digging for compliments?
[19:10] <apachelogger> Mamarok: how is the weather in .ch?
[19:10] <Riddell> KDE is awfae cool
[19:10] <Mamarok> Riddell: remember I always take a picture of you?
[19:11] <Mamarok> apachelogger: better than it was yesterday in Berlin
[19:11] <Riddell> we seem to have run out of serious questions
[19:11] <apachelogger> aye
[19:11] <Riddell> Mamarok gets a +1 from me for top user support
[19:11] <Tonio_> +1 for me, obviously,  based on excellent community work ! plus we need more women in the process... keep up the good work !
[19:11] <Riddell> Nightrose?
[19:12] <Nightrose> +1 for dealing with the user list
[19:12] <Riddell> Mamarok: you're in!
[19:12]  * apachelogger notes that Nightrose is biased 
[19:12] <Nightrose> heh
[19:12] <Mamarok> wow, thanks a lot, folks!
[19:12] <neversfelde> that was easy :)
[19:12]  * Mamarok bows
[19:12] <JontheEchidna> welcome :)
[19:12]  * apachelogger hans Mamarok a cookie
[19:12] <blizzz> congrats Mamarok :)
[19:12] <apachelogger> +d
[19:12]  * ScottK wonders who is Hans?
[19:12]  * Mamarok *hugs* apachelogger 
[19:12] <neversfelde> Mamarok: congratulations
[19:12] <Riddell> on with the agenda
[19:13] <Riddell> https://wiki.kubuntu.org/KubuntuKarmicSpecs
[19:13] <ScottK> Congratulations Mamarok
[19:13] <Mamarok> and hugs to all the others of course :)
[19:13] <apachelogger> ScottK: you really dont wanna know
[19:13] <Riddell> that has the specs I've registered for UDS
[19:13] <Riddell> I also saw a spec for DX discussions
[19:13] <Riddell> https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/dx-karmic-kde-integration
[19:13] <Riddell> shtylman, ScottK, rgreening: all ready for UDS?
[19:14] <Riddell> who else?
[19:14] <maco> <--
[19:14] <shtylman> Riddell: yep
[19:14] <Riddell> jpds: you going to come to the Kubuntu sessions?
[19:14] <Tonio_> Riddell: me I guess :)
[19:14] <ScottK> I still need to make my travel arrangements.
[19:14] <rgreening> Not really :)
[19:14] <Tonio_> Riddell: and all ready on my side
[19:14] <rgreening> but I'll get there :)
[19:14] <Riddell> Tonio_, maco: great
[19:14] <Riddell> ScottK: book quick!
[19:14] <shtylman> I do still need to register for sessions though
[19:15] <rgreening> Travel is done, just need to post up details and look for cab buddies
[19:15] <Riddell> first rule of UDS is, up by 9 o'clock sharp
[19:16] <Riddell> else people get grumpy
[19:16] <shtylman> ooo.... I dunno about that one ;)
[19:16] <apachelogger> Oo
[19:16] <Riddell> second is work hard and play hard
[19:16] <apachelogger> clearly I will never attend UDS
[19:16] <JontheEchidna> lol
[19:16] <wirelessmonkey> If you see technoviking...tell him to take his own cab ;)
[19:16] <Tonio_> and drink even harder !
[19:16] <Tonio_> but latelly, only !
[19:16] <Mamarok> shtylman: just don't walk in a session that already has started
[19:17] <shtylman> Mamarok: noted :)
[19:17] <Riddell> there should be a way for non-attendees to dial in and contribute
[19:17] <Riddell> and I believe rickspencer3 has put our sessions spread out along the week one a day
[19:17] <Mamarok> apachelogger: we could keep you awake for the "9 sharp" session, then let you sleep?
[19:17] <Riddell> rickspencer3: are they in any order?
[19:17] <apachelogger> Mamarok: that would be cool I suppose
[19:17] <rickspencer3> yeah, two a day in the afternoon
[19:18] <Riddell> rickspencer3: probably the top two on https://wiki.kubuntu.org/KubuntuKarmicSpecs should be in the first two days as they're the most important and may need some thinking about
[19:18] <Lure> any candidate to drive discussion with rosetta about l10n (follow up on apachelogger's mail)?
[19:18] <Riddell> Lure: there's a roundtable scheduled
[19:18] <nixternal> oy oy
[19:18] <Lure> Riddell: great, I hope several of you will attend and hopefully this will improve in karmic
[19:19]  * apachelogger notes to keep the 9 o'clock sharp rule in mind while asking that question
[19:19] <seele> there is a single blueprint for packaging and development? will you be able to talk about all that in two sessions?
[19:19] <Mamarok> Karmic has to be *the* Kubuntu release, with all the Ks all over...
[19:19] <Riddell> if you think there's other things that should be discussed then do add them to that wiki page
[19:19] <Riddell> seele: that's why it should be at the start of the week incase we need more sessions to finish it off
[19:19] <shtylman> Mamarok: I agree...think lots of polish should go into it..
[19:19] <Mamarok> Riddell: translations.....
[19:20] <seele> double sessions maybe, heh
[19:20] <Tonio_> Riddell: kpackagekit... decent graphical package manager is or eternal problem I think...
[19:21] <shtylman> seele: I think icons deserve a special touch :)
[19:21] <seele> shtylman: icons?
[19:21] <Lure> Riddell: dx-karmic-kde-integration should be linked from Kubuntu spec page - should I add it?
[19:21] <Riddell> Lure: please
[19:21] <smarter> [20:19:27] -*- smarter notes that https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/dx-karmic-kde-integration should probably says that dx means desktop experience
[19:21] <smarter> don't know if that message was sent or not
[19:21] <ScottK> I have to say I was deeply troubled by a lot of their discussion at their meeting yesterday.
[19:22] <Riddell> smarter: poke rickspencer3, he registered it
[19:22] <shtylman> seele: just general usability icons, kde people will probly get to some of them, but some of the icons (like network manager) don't always make sense
[19:22] <Lure> ScottK: I hope you will be there on UDS meeting then ;-)
[19:22] <Riddell> network manager artwork is known to be sub par by upstream
[19:23] <Riddell> moving on
[19:23] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: you had an agenda item
[19:23] <Riddell> What's new with pkg-kde-tools? (I spy with my little eye a merge...) -- echidnaman
[19:23] <JontheEchidna> yeah, what's up in pkg-kde-tools land?
[19:23] <JontheEchidna> I noticed you merged the other day, so what's the plan for moving forward?
[19:24] <Riddell> it's merged, go use it :)
[19:24] <Riddell> no need to use the kde4.mk from cdbs any more
[19:24] <JontheEchidna> neat
[19:24] <Riddell> use the debian-qt-kde.mk one (or kde.mk if you want)
[19:24]  * apachelogger recommends the former
[19:24] <rgreening> so is cdbs still required as a build dep? or does that get removed too?
[19:25] <apachelogger> rgreening: aye
[19:25] <JontheEchidna> still required
[19:25] <rgreening> k
[19:25] <Riddell> cmake isn't though
[19:25] <rgreening> oh..
[19:25] <rgreening> really
[19:25] <Riddell> currently qt is compiling away with new libqt4-phonon package
[19:25] <rgreening> cool!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
[19:25] <Riddell> this means everything using phonon will need to be recompiled against it
[19:26] <Tonio_> Riddell: what are the benefits of it compared to cdbs kde4.mk ?
[19:26] <Riddell> and I don't know if that's the same scheme Debian will use so it could change again
[19:26] <Riddell> Tonio_: it's the same as Debian
[19:26] <Riddell> Tonio_: kde4.mk only existed because Debian didn't have a globally installed .mk file, now they do
[19:26] <Tonio_> Riddell: I meant from a technical perspective :) syncing with debian is always good
[19:26] <Tonio_> Riddell: okay
[19:27] <Riddell> so waiting on qt, then I'll upload phonon (which now only builds the backends), then kde4libs and base and the rest
[19:27] <Riddell> currently not much is installable in karmic but hopefully that'll get sorted out by tomorrow
[19:27] <ScottK> I think the biggest new thing is their symbols file magic, which I totally don't understand.
[19:27] <Riddell> ScottK: yes they are a bit mysterious
[19:28] <Riddell> currently we don't use them though
[19:28] <Riddell> they require dpkg from experimental which was merged last I looked
[19:28] <Riddell> next week.. alpha 1
[19:28] <JontheEchidna> so is it possible to inlude them now for merge/sync purposes?
[19:28] <JontheEchidna> (symbol files)
[19:28] <ScottK> There are packages that we could sync if that would get done (I think)
[19:28] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: Not yet.
[19:28] <JontheEchidna> strigi could be synced if we had symbol files
[19:28] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: you can include them, they just don't do anything
[19:29] <JontheEchidna> I had heard that they caused FTBFS
[19:29] <Riddell> so something breaks currently if you compile it?
[19:29] <JontheEchidna> or maybe I misunderstood
[19:29] <ScottK> That was my experience in Jaunty.
[19:30] <ScottK> Needed to actually remove them so dpkg-gensymbols wouldn't try and fail to update it.
[19:30] <Riddell> dpkg-gensymbols shouldn't get run
[19:30] <Riddell> I'll look at that later, no need to clog up meeting with it
[19:31] <ScottK> OK.
[19:31] <Riddell> 4.2.3 should be done by the end of day, thanks to everyone who helped with that
[19:31] <JontheEchidna> cool, that's about all the questions I had
[19:32] <JontheEchidna> yup, 4.2.3 is coming along
[19:32] <JontheEchidna> beta1 soon...
[19:32] <Riddell> yes beta 1 next week
[19:32] <JontheEchidna> do we want to get the merges finished before that?
[19:32] <Riddell> that might clash with our alpha 1
[19:32] <shtylman> Riddell: will it be backported?
[19:32] <Riddell> yes we do, we're mostly blocked on buildds for the merges
[19:32] <Lure> Riddell: beta1 goes directly into karmic?
[19:32] <Riddell> shtylman: I hope so but we'll be pushing it to get it backported right on time
[19:33] <Riddell> we'll see
[19:33] <Riddell> Lure: yes
[19:33] <Lure> Riddell: great
[19:33]  * Lure will switch then to karmic ;-)
[19:33] <Riddell> so lots to do
[19:33] <Riddell> if anyone wants to help the packaging ninjas do speak up!
[19:34] <Riddell> PPAs
[19:34] <Riddell> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/kubuntu-devel/2009-April/002788.html
[19:34]  * Lure just admires all the effort put by all ninjas - it is HUGE amount of work and releases!
[19:34] <Riddell> shall we go with what I propose there?
[19:34] <JontheEchidna> I'm fine with that PPA layout
[19:34] <neversfelde> yes, soujnds good
[19:34] <Lure> Riddell: fine with PPA - I will also retire digikam-experimental in favour of kubuntu experimental ppa
[19:35] <Riddell> Lure: good plan
[19:36] <Riddell> Network manager plasmoid update?
[19:36] <Riddell> who's tested the new network manager
[19:36] <Riddell> nobody?
[19:36] <shtylman> Riddell: where can we get it/test it from?
[19:36] <seele> is it in experimental or someone's ppa?
[19:37] <Riddell> shtylman: kubuntu-experimental PPA
[19:37]  * smarter just updated KubuntuKarmicSpecs
[19:37] <neversfelde> the ppa build by a|wen_?
[19:37] <Riddell> apachelogger: you had a page for test results?
[19:37] <Lure> Riddell: does not work for hidden+WPA-Enterprise+PEAP+MSCHAPv2
[19:37] <Lure> Riddell: but just did quick test
[19:37] <smarter> Lure: that's some pretty hardcode testcase :p
[19:37] <Tonio_> Riddell: on my ppa, seems to work pretty decent
[19:38] <Tonio_> Riddell: but I never had any problem with in for my special usecase
[19:38] <Lure> smarter: that is what my company uses, and no way to test what is wrong in that picture
[19:38] <apachelogger> https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kububntu/PlasmaWidgetNetworkManager
[19:38] <apachelogger> though I recommend to talk to a|wen before doing tests
[19:38] <Lure> unless I try to configure something like this at home ;-)
[19:38] <neversfelde> a|wens build orked fine for me
[19:38] <Tonio_> Riddell: people having problems' feedback would be more interesting
[19:38] <Riddell> it seems to work perfectly for me
[19:39] <a|wen_> i'm looking at updating it soon ... some of the problems reported has already been fixed
[19:39] <apachelogger> a|wen_: btw, we need a testcase for wrong password
[19:39] <apachelogger> the timeout seemed a bit long IMHO
[19:39] <Riddell> at least it does the right thing of opening kwallet before it needs the login password
[19:39] <neversfelde> oh, feedback on jauntys original version was not so good in our forum, people had to switch to network-manager-gnome several times
[19:39] <a|wen_> but they did some restructuring; so wanted to see that the svn settled again
[19:39] <Tonio_> still no way to set options for the vpn connections...
[19:39] <neversfelde> yeah, that kwallet problem was mentioned there several times
[19:40] <Riddell> ok so not time to go for a SRU yet
[19:40] <Riddell> it'll be hard to convince them to allow it as a SRU since it's not minimal patches but I think we should try
[19:40] <ScottK> Riddell: Maybe upload to Karmic and then backport.
[19:40] <a|wen_> we had some wpa1+peap failing for once
[19:40] <Riddell> ScottK: mm, yes
[19:40] <apachelogger> Riddell: well, it is an incredible improvement to what we have in jaunty
[19:40] <a|wen_> i'll check the svnlogs and do a an update soon
[19:41] <Lure> Riddell: we should try - we get lots of negative press and risk of getting worse than current state is low
[19:41] <neversfelde> ScottK: +1
[19:41] <apachelogger> so if we do proper regression testing it should be no problem
[19:41] <ScottK> SRU promised regression free.  Backports just promises 'better'.
[19:41] <apachelogger> SRU failed to keep that promise loads of times ;-)
[19:41] <Riddell> let's get it into backports toot sweet then
[19:41] <ScottK> apachelogger: Agreed, but that doesn't make it OK.
[19:41] <JontheEchidna> I saw that k3b got uploaded to karmic, do we want to backport that soon too?
[19:41] <apachelogger> cases where users have to install nm-applet do
[19:41] <Lure> I would go backports as fallback scenario if SRU is rejected
[19:42] <apachelogger> the potential for regression is minimal, as there wasn't working a whole lot
[19:42] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: test it and check it works with DVDs first
[19:42] <ScottK> We also still have KNetworkManager too, so I don't think nm-applet is really required.
[19:42]  * JontheEchidna doesn't have a dvd burner
[19:42] <neversfelde> is it possible to get plasma-widget-networkmanager in backports as a rolling release?
[19:42] <Lure> ScottK: it is, for my combination - knetworkmanager also does not work :-(
[19:43] <ScottK> Lure: So not a regression from Intrepid then ;-)
[19:43] <Lure> ScottK: confirmed ;-)
[19:43] <ScottK> Not saying Knm was great ...
[19:43] <Lure> ScottK: but true, it works for hidden networks, which are more common
[19:43] <apachelogger> ScottK: knetworkmanager does also not work in a whole lot of cases
[19:44] <neversfelde> ScottK: I recommended knetworkmanager lot of times, there was no great success
[19:44] <apachelogger> + it is not on the CD
[19:44] <ScottK> apachelogger: Is on the DVD though
[19:44] <apachelogger> the idea of getting it into updates is to deploy it _all_ users
[19:44] <apachelogger> that includes those that have no clue about anything
[19:44] <ScottK> It seems to me the biggest challenge for Karmic packaging is the OOo KDE4 stuff.
[19:44] <neversfelde> plasma-widget-networkmanager is a major issue what people dislike in jaunty
[19:45] <JontheEchidna> network-manager and intel drivers have been the biggest gripes I've seen about jaunty
[19:45] <Riddell> we'll get it into backports as soon as we can then
[19:45] <neversfelde> JontheEchidna: +1 here
[19:45] <Lure> neversfelde: I think intel driver regressions are even worse (but they are at least not kubuntu specific)
[19:45] <Riddell> when a|wen_ gets an update we'll do more format testing on it and go for an SRU
[19:45] <apachelogger> agreed
[19:45] <Riddell> Lure: yeah that's nasty too, but not really our area
[19:45] <ScottK> Riddell: Have you seen any progress on OOo for KDE4?
[19:45] <Tonio_> yup
[19:45] <neversfelde> Lure: yes, ofcourse
[19:45] <apachelogger> AFK
[19:46] <Lure> Riddell: I think ubuntu cycle should be 1-2 months after Fedora
[19:46] <Riddell> ScottK: no, I'll probably look at it quickly before UDS to see if there's any possibility of us working on it
[19:46] <Riddell> there may well not be but worth looking
[19:46] <smarter> KNetworkManager stopped working after an Intrepid->Jaunty upgrade for my father
[19:46] <Lure> Riddell: they have all the bleading edge stuff linked with fedora releases
[19:46] <smarter> had to switch to the plasmoid
[19:46] <ScottK> Riddell: It might be a good area for collaboration with Debian as they'll be interested too.
[19:46] <seele> when will we make a decision about koffice? do we need to do it at UDS? it's still in beta
[19:46] <Lure> Riddell: or ubuntu should skip some latest and greatest if we want to be monthe before fedora
[19:47] <ScottK> seele: What decision about KOffice?
[19:47] <Riddell> seele: as a replacement koffice won't be ready for some time
[19:47] <smarter> it's definitely not going to replace OOo in the near future
[19:47] <Riddell> 2.0 is looking like a great base but it's not an OO killer for the moment
[19:47] <shtylman> given the choice I would stick with OO for some time
[19:47] <smarter> not even sure it'll ever be able to replace it for the professional userbase
[19:47] <shtylman> as OO is picking up users on other platforms as well
[19:48] <seele> ScottK: Riddell: simply to include it.
[19:48] <Lure> Riddell: Oracle looks more like OOo killer to me ;-)
[19:48]  * zaafouri is away (brb =))
[19:48] <seele> i thought it was on the karmicspec list
[19:48] <Riddell> seele: koffice 2 will move to main for karmic I'm sure
[19:48]  * neversfelde is unsing koffice in a professional environment, but normal user would not do that
[19:48] <smarter> Tonio_: ^ I think you discussed with the Koffice2 guys at some point and they said it'll never really be corporate-friendly?
[19:48] <Lure> neversfelde: koffice 2?
[19:49] <blizzz> neversfelde: can you create diagrams?
[19:49] <neversfelde> I am only writing
[19:49] <neversfelde> but professional writing :)
[19:49] <ScottK> Probably enough about KOffice for the meeting ....
[19:49] <neversfelde> Lure: yes
[19:49] <blizzz> kile is for writing :þ
[19:49] <neversfelde> +1
[19:49] <shtylman> blizzz: +1
[19:50] <Lure> neversfelde: you are a brave person then ;-)
[19:50] <Tonio_> smarter: well the guys I discussed with, yes
[19:50] <Tonio_> smarter: they expect it to be a "works", not an "ms office" like
[19:51] <Riddell> any other business?
[19:51] <seele> did you already do membership for Mamarok?
[19:51] <Lure> who is planning to go to gran canaria for Akademy?
[19:51] <JontheEchidna> seele: at the start :)
[19:51] <ScottK> seele: Yes.
[19:51] <seele> ah, heh
[19:52]  * Lure is considering and good Kubuntu attendance would help with decision ;-)
[19:52] <Riddell> seele: we did but we didn't hear your vote
[19:52] <Tonio_> smarter: but on the other hand, our target are home users.... you want to use kubuntu at work -> use OOo and that's it
[19:52] <seele> i wasnt here
[19:52] <Riddell> Lure: I am
[19:52] <seele> +1 obviously
[19:52] <Tonio_> smarter: I see no problem with that
[19:52] <seele> Lure: i am presenting
[19:52] <smarter> Tonio_: except it's probably not obvious for most people
[19:53] <Lure> Riddell, seele: great! anybody else?
[19:53] <ScottK> Tonio_: Until the kids can copy the papers they write to a memory stick and take them to school and work with MS Office there, it's not a suitable default for home use either.
[19:54] <Lure> ScottK: with Office2007 SP2 + fixes for ODF we might actually see that day sometime ;-)
[19:54]  * Riddell will believe it when he sees it
[19:54] <ScottK> Lure: Someday, maybe.
[19:54] <shtylman> <- is skeptical...
[19:55] <apachelogger> koffice needs more work force
[19:55] <maco> does koffice2 not do doc?
[19:55] <apachelogger> in about ever aspect
[19:55] <apachelogger> maco: barely
[19:55] <apachelogger> though
[19:55] <maco> oh
[19:55] <apachelogger> actually it does ODF barely as well
[19:55] <Tonio_> ScottK: true that, of course
[19:55] <ScottK> Lure: Even if it were fixed now, it'd be about 2013 before it predominated in schools.
[19:56] <maco> apachelogger: so what DOES it do?
[19:56] <Riddell> I think we're out of meeting items
[19:56] <apachelogger> look shiny
[19:56] <smarter> maco: spinned texts :p
[19:56] <Lure> maco: non standard odf
[19:56] <Riddell> office suite talk to #kubuntu-devel
[19:56] <Riddell> thanks for coming everyone
[19:56]  * apachelogger continues strike
[19:56] <Lure> apachelogger: huger strike?
[19:56] <Lure> hunger even
[19:57] <tsimpson> huger strike, that'a a good idea. keep huging people until they give you money
[20:09] <neversfelde> Meeting finished?
[20:09] <ScottK> Yep