[07:54] <dholbach> hiya
[07:54] <dholbach> persia, soren, jpds, nhandler, nixternal: who of you is up already?
[07:55] <persia> I'm about, but need a few minutes before I'm ready.
[07:55] <dholbach> ok
[08:00] <soren> I need a minute and a half. Sorry.
[08:00] <dholbach> soren: no worries
[08:01] <dholbach> I think jpds said something about not being sure he made it to his office in time
[08:01] <dholbach> so let's see
[08:01]  * soren is here now
[08:01] <dholbach> lidaobing is not around yet it seems
[08:01] <dholbach> directhex neither
[08:01] <dholbach> james_w?
[08:02]  * james_w waves
[08:02] <dholbach> hiyaq
[08:02] <soren> Good morning.
[08:02] <jpds> Morning.
[08:02] <soren> Derka, derka, derka.
[08:02] <dholbach> soren: which language is that? :)
[08:03] <soren> dholbach: Terrorist :)
[08:03] <lidaobing> dholbach, hello
[08:03] <dholbach> hi lidaobing
[08:03] <dholbach> persia might need another few minutes, so we'll kick off the meeting shortly
[08:03] <lidaobing> ok
[08:03] <soren> Agenda?
[08:04] <dholbach> persia, jpds, soren: anybody of you wants to chair?
[08:04] <persia> I can chair.
[08:04] <persia> #startmeeting
[08:04] <MootBot> Meeting started at 02:04. The chair is persia.
[08:04] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[08:04] <dholbach> persia: super
[08:04]  * soren hugs persia 
[08:05] <dholbach> Our agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Council/Meeting
[08:05] <persia> [LINK] Agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Council/Meeting
[08:05] <MootBot> LINK received:  Agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Council/Meeting
[08:05] <persia> [topic] Universe Contributor Application for Li Daobing
[08:05] <MootBot> New Topic:  Universe Contributor Application for Li Daobing
[08:06] <dholbach> lidaobing: how are you doing today?
[08:06] <lidaobing> dholbach, hello
[08:06] <dholbach> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LiDaobing/UniverseContributorApplication
[08:06] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LiDaobing/UniverseContributorApplication
[08:06] <persia> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LiDaobing/UniverseContributorApplication
[08:06] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LiDaobing/UniverseContributorApplication
[08:06]  * persia shows dholbach the comfy roller-chair on the side of the table, specially reserved for him :)
[08:06] <dholbach> persia: thanks muchly :)
[08:07] <lidaobing> dholbach, how to go on? introduce myself?
[08:07] <dholbach> lidaobing: we're just going to ask a few questions .... how was the jaunty cycle for you?
[08:08] <lidaobing> I uploaded several packages during jaunty
[08:08] <lidaobing> the most important one is ibus 0.1.1
[08:08] <lidaobing> which is considered the next generation input platform
[08:08] <lidaobing> but it is not finished in jaunty cycle
[08:08] <dholbach> lidaobing: would you recommend it for the default in karmic or does it still need more work?
[08:08] <lidaobing> only the base package and japanese and hangul input method came in
[08:09] <lidaobing> i think it need more time to become the default.
[08:09] <lidaobing> I still experience in some problem with it
[08:09] <lidaobing> such as dealing with zombie ibus process
[08:10] <dholbach> did you get a lot of interest from users testing it?
[08:10] <lidaobing> and dealing with java application,
[08:10] <lidaobing> yes, many one suggesting this package, because scim is more buggy, :-)
[08:10] <lidaobing> and ibus is still has no qt immodule
[08:11] <dholbach> I hope we can get the remaining modules into Karmic - did you work on packages for all the modules available?
[08:11] <lidaobing> yes, except one which maybe have patent issue on it.
[08:11] <dholbach> ah ok
[08:12] <lidaobing> the author sue the Microsoft for it.
[08:12] <dholbach> I appreciate your efforts on the input method front... do you have any other interests (in terms of other packages) too?
[08:12] <lidaobing> I have uploaded several other packages in jaunty
[08:13] <lidaobing> such as fqterm and llk-linux
[08:13] <lidaobing> I am interested in packaging the packages in Chinese culture.
[08:13] <dholbach> that sounds great
[08:13] <dholbach> persia, soren, jpds: do you have any questions already?
[08:14] <soren> lidaobing: I'm curious about how widely adopted Ubuntu is in China.
[08:14] <jpds> Oh, nice work getting ibus into Debian too!
[08:14] <soren> lidaobing: I think in most of the rest of the world, it's a clear leader, but in China, I'm not so sure.
[08:14] <lidaobing> soren, Ubuntu is also the leader in China
[08:15] <lidaobing> soren, i mean leader Linux distribution
[08:15] <lidaobing> Windows still consume almost all the market, more than 99%
[08:15] <dholbach> jpds: in Debian is it still in NEW?
[08:15] <lidaobing> jpds, still in the NEW queue.
[08:15] <jpds> dholbach: Yeah.
[08:15] <dholbach> ok
[08:16] <soren> lidaobing: Cool.
[08:16] <lidaobing> soren, thanks
[08:16] <jpds> lidaobing: I usually find finding a sponsor the hardest bit myself :)
[08:16] <lidaobing> jpds, too few sponsor in debian-mentors
[08:17] <lidaobing> jpds, I became DD weeks ago
[08:17] <jpds> lidaobing: Oh, well done.
[08:17] <persia> lidaobing, One of the things we look for in UCD applicants is integration with the development community.  I note that you only have one endorsement on your application.  Did you request more?
[08:17] <lidaobing> so I am busy sponsoring in this two weeks
[08:17] <dholbach> congratulations lidaobing, I noticed the change of email addresses :)
[08:18] <lidaobing> persia, sorry, I forget to request more.
[08:18] <lidaobing> persia, too busy in these two weeks
[08:19] <james_w> I didn't realise that lidaobing didn't have many endorsements. I have sponsored several ibus packages, and others, and I found the work to be very good, and very much needed.
[08:19] <persia> james_w, Thanks.
[08:19] <james_w> and co-ordination with Debian is obviously excellent :-)
[08:19] <dholbach> lidaobing: in your application you say "N/A" under "What I like least in Ubuntu" - is there anything that went on your nerves in terms of Ubuntu development?
[08:19] <dholbach> anything that could be easier?
[08:20] <persia> Or even anything that could just be improved?
[08:20] <lidaobing> much better than in Debian, I have pbuilder-dist and ppa in ubuntu
[08:20] <lidaobing> it help me much
[08:20] <directhex> am i fashionably late?
[08:21] <dholbach> directhex: it's all good, we're still on the first application
[08:22] <dholbach> I'm all set in terms of questions... persia, jpds, soren?
[08:22] <persia> I'm good.
[08:22]  * soren too
[08:22] <jpds> I'm set too.
[08:22] <persia> Right then.
[08:23] <persia> [VOTE] UCD Application for Li Daobing
[08:23] <MootBot> Please vote on:  UCD Application for Li Daobing.
[08:23] <MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
[08:23] <MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
[08:23] <soren> +1
[08:23] <MootBot> +1 received from soren. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
[08:23] <lidaobing> thanks.
[08:23] <dholbach> +1
[08:23] <MootBot> +1 received from dholbach. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
[08:23] <jpds> +1
[08:23] <MootBot> +1 received from jpds. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
[08:23] <persia> +1 from me.
[08:23] <MootBot> +1 received from persia. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
[08:23] <persia> [ENDVOTE]
[08:23] <MootBot> Final result is 4 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 4
[08:24] <persia> lidaobing, congratulations
[08:24] <lidaobing> thanks all of you.
[08:24] <lidaobing> thanks.
[08:24] <directhex> yay for lidaobing!
[08:24] <dholbach> congratulations!
[08:24] <james_w> congratulations lidaobing, much deserved
[08:24] <lidaobing> thanks.
[08:24] <persia> [topic] core-dev application for James Westby
[08:24] <MootBot> New Topic:  core-dev application for James Westby
[08:24] <persia> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JamesWestby/CoreDevApplication
[08:24] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JamesWestby/CoreDevApplication
[08:24] <jpds> congrats lidaobing
[08:25] <persia> james_w, What prompted you to apply for core-dev now?
[08:25] <james_w> one immediate reason is so that I can take on full archive admin duties
[08:26] <james_w> the others are so that I don't have to wait for sponsors and can ease the burden on them
[08:26] <james_w> and that I would like to be a core-dev ;-)
[08:27] <dholbach> james_w: in the application you say that you dislike that the ubuntu development processes are sort of disconnected from upstream development
[08:27] <dholbach> james_w: could you explain that a bit... and maybe you have an idea or two
[08:28] <james_w> I think that it is bad as it will put some people off even trying to help out
[08:28] <GunbladeIV> w0ot lidaobing :D
[08:28] <james_w> things like patch systems are alien to an "upstream" developer, so when they are in a package it takes a lot more work to add a patch, build the package and test
[08:28] <lidaobing> GunbladeIV, :)
[08:29] <james_w> the v3 (quilt) format will help with that particular issue I think
[08:30] <james_w> the other barriers I see are some gratuitous differences in process, and some odd tools
[08:30] <james_w> if we can slim the basics down then we may get more people willing to help out casually
[08:31] <persia> When using "upstream" here, do you mean the software authors, Debian, or both?
[08:31] <dholbach> I'm a bit confused by seeing "quilt" and "help with an issue" in one sentence, but I'm probably not up to scratch when it comes to the new source package format.
[08:31] <dholbach> :-)
[08:32] <james_w> in addition, smoothing the flow from an upstream fix to a package fix would help us a lot at times, and that is one thing that I hope to improve with distributed development
[08:32] <james_w> dholbach: quilt rulez!
[08:32] <persia> dholbach, It's about automation.  Our current quilt solution has no automation, which is part of what makes it painful.
[08:32] <ajmitch> dholbach: less mucking around with integrating patch systems :)
[08:32] <soren> james_w: I'm confused. You say that patch systems are confusing to upstreams, but the v3 (quilt) format will help.. Isn't that a contradiction in terms?
[08:33] <james_w> persia: I am mainly talking about software authors. though I guess it does apply on a smaller scale to Debian, though perhaps more that we are forced to modify there processes somewhat, so most improvements there would come from Debian and us working together to improve a process.
[08:33] <james_w> soren: not really, as you can ignore the patch system in that format, just patch the upstream source directly, and dpkg-dev will turn it in to a patch in debian/patches/
[08:34] <james_w> this means that you can totally ignore the presence of the patch system without people telling you that you need to use one
[08:34] <james_w> and lintian complaining about the same as a matter of fact
[08:34] <soren> james_w: Hmm... I see. I've not actually used the new formats, I just read a bit about them when they were introduced in dpkg.
[08:34] <persia> That actually applies to most of the v3 formats, not just v3(quilt).
[08:35] <james_w> persia: yeah, but I think the other v3 formats are silly in their own right
[08:35] <persia> james_w, So, even as a bzr developer, you don't like v3(bzr) ?
[08:36] <james_w> bryce wrote a post a while ago that I agree with, about our tools being silly and crufty and this putting people off
[08:36] <james_w> persia: correct, to me the format is inside-out
[08:36] <lifeless> james_w: I want to distract you when you have a minute
[08:36] <james_w> lifeless: #bzr?
[08:36] <dholbach> lifeless: do you want to tell us to hurry up with James' application? :)
[08:37] <persia> james_w, You note in your application that you find sending patches upstream effective as an alternative to uploading to main.  Do you expect your behaviours to change if you become core-dev?
[08:37] <lifeless> dholbach: no, keep him hanging :)
[08:37] <lifeless> james_w: no, #motu :P get-orig-source and bzr maintained code
[08:37] <james_w> persia: I don't think so
[08:37] <dholbach> james_w: how will we get to the point where we can marry upstream branches with our source package branches? :)
[08:37] <james_w> lifeless: I also dislike get-orig-source quite a lot
[08:38] <lifeless> james_w: I could easily loath it
[08:38] <lifeless> I agree about our toolchain
[08:38] <james_w> dholbach: we'll be discussing that at UDS and after
[08:38] <dholbach> nice, that makes me happy
[08:38] <dholbach> james_w: I have a final question
[08:39] <dholbach> james_w: do you have plans to share your own mixtapes?
[08:39] <james_w> dholbach: heh, not currently :-)
[08:39] <persia> soren, jpds More questions?
[08:39] <james_w> lifeless: was your questions more specific than whether I like it?
[08:39] <jpds> None from me.
[08:40] <lifeless> james_w: after you're in-or-out methinks
[08:40] <soren> james_w: I haven't quite kept up with the whole distributeddevelopment thing..
[08:40] <soren> james_w: When are we expected to switch?
[08:41] <james_w> soren: it should be possible to work productively in bzr in karmic
[08:41]  * persia admires the careful phrasing of that answer
[08:41] <james_w> unfortunately I am late in delivering stuff for the start of karmic, so you can't see that yet
[08:41] <dholbach> soren: you must have missed a note...
[08:41] <james_w> it's just around the corner, I promise :-)
[08:41] <dholbach> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 4 2008-11-20 11:33 /usr/bin/dput -> bzr
[08:42] <james_w> heh
[08:42] <soren> dholbach: Wouldn't be the first time.. :(
[08:42] <dholbach> soren: I was kidding :)
[08:42] <persia> james_w, So, could you summarise what is different about uploading to main?
[08:42] <soren> dholbach: I wasn't.
[08:42] <soren> :)
[08:42] <james_w> there's still a lot of documentation and stuff to add before we can ask people to generally use it
[08:43] <james_w> persia: you are uploading packages that are generally going to be more widely used and relied on
[08:43] <james_w> except that there are some of those in universe
[08:43] <james_w> you can break CD builds
[08:43] <james_w> except that you can do that from universe
[08:44] <james_w> (found it at last: http://www2.bryceharrington.org:8080/drupal/node/62)
[08:45] <james_w> generally you should exercise a bit more thought and care before uploading a package in main
[08:46] <persia> OK.  Part of where I was going was that many of the things that can break things in ways that affect hundreds of packages live in main.  What are some ways you can determine if a given upload is likely to be innocuous, and how might you deal with one that may not be so.
[08:47] <james_w> using my knowledge and experience as an Ubuntu developer, testing, peer review, and testing.
[08:48] <james_w> if you slip up then try to catch on quickly, alert any relevant parties, and decide on the course of action
[08:48] <james_w> whether it be fixing, reverting, or something more drastic
[08:50] <persia> soren, Anything else?
[08:50] <soren> Nope.
[08:50] <persia> [VOTE] Recommend James Westby for consideration as core-dev
[08:50] <MootBot> Please vote on:  Recommend James Westby for consideration as core-dev.
[08:50] <MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
[08:50] <MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
[08:51] <dholbach> +1 althought your willingness to share your own mixtapes clearly needs work :-)
[08:51] <MootBot> +1 received from dholbach. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
[08:51] <soren> +1
[08:51] <MootBot> +1 received from soren. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
[08:51] <jpds> +1
[08:51] <MootBot> +1 received from jpds. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
[08:51] <persia> +1
[08:51] <MootBot> +1 received from persia. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
[08:51] <persia> [endvote]
[08:51] <MootBot> Final result is 4 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 4
[08:51] <dholbach> congratulations james_w :)
[08:51] <directhex> yay james_w
[08:52] <james_w> thanks everyone
[08:52] <ajmitch> well done
[08:52] <persia> james_w, We'll forward your application to the TB.  Your meeting will probably be scheduled in a couple weeks, although UDS may postpone it.
[08:52] <directhex> someone new to bug for main sponsorship! \o/
[08:52] <persia> [topic] MOTU Application for Jo Shields
[08:52] <MootBot> New Topic:  MOTU Application for Jo Shields
[08:52] <directhex> eek, that's me
[08:52] <persia> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/directhex/MOTUApplication
[08:52] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/directhex/MOTUApplication
[08:53] <ajmitch> ew, mono stuff ;)
[08:53] <jpds> I must say, I agree with James' comment for improvement.
[08:54] <dholbach> directhex: how are you doing today?
[08:54] <directhex> i'm doin' good, considering the beer festival in town yesterday
[08:54] <dholbach> directhex: you mention a few things you'd like to do better in the future... did you think of ways how you could do that? or reasons why you run into those problems every now and then?
[08:55] <directhex> dholbach, i think my process needs work. i ought to keep notes to remind me of this stuff
[08:55] <directhex> my memory isn't great, so i often simply forget the "check the BTS" bit. it's been commented on in my debian work too
[08:55] <directhex> so i'm fully aware that it needs improvement
[08:56] <ajmitch> for the record, I think directhex has done an impressive amount of work & am surprised that he hasn't applied for MOTU (& NM) earlier
[08:56] <directhex> i should probably just make a checklist and stick to it
[08:56] <dholbach> directhex: so post-it notes with "any unmerged changes?", "forgot update-maintainer?", "got milk?" on your screen?
[08:56] <directhex> dholbach, well, tomboy, but yes
[08:56] <persia> directhex, The vast majority of your uploads seem related to pkg-mono stuff.  Could you cite a couple examples of other areas in which you're active?
[08:56] <persia> ajmitch, Thanks.
[08:57] <directhex> ajmitch, i have an intense feeling of unease when it comes to committing to something i don't feel i'm comfortable taking full responsibility for, so i wanted to "try it out" as much as possible first
[08:58] <directhex> persia, that's my primary area of expertise, so i have some interactions where that intersects with other groups (kde team, ooo team, etc). for the most part i don't do much with other areas other than file bugs, simply because other smarter people know those things better than me
[08:59] <directhex> and i know how annoying it is to have someone who doesn't understand your team blunder in & try to do things their way.
[08:59] <directhex> that and i have only limited cycles, and pkg-mono covers ~75 source packages
[08:59] <persia> That makes sense.  Have you also considered requesting upload for only the pkg-mono stuff?  If so, what made you choose MOTU instead?
[09:00] <persia> geser, Welcome.  We're just processing directhex's application.
[09:01] <directhex> persia, i'd like to think that just because i focus on one thing, it doesn't mean i can't be useful in others
[09:01] <directhex> persia, e.g. i don't spend much time with REVU because i'm not a MOTU so can't advocate
[09:02] <dholbach> directhex: you have experience with working with Debian and Ubuntu developers - where do you see the main differences ... in terms of process and socially?
[09:03] <directhex> dholbach, ah, a pet subject! i think debian is a much "purer" democracy - everyone has equal voice, whether you package X or a lib only 3 people use, your opinions are taken equally, argued about on the mailing lists, then thrown away by the secret cabal.
[09:03] <directhex> dholbach, as i said in my application, i think the best way to improve ubuntu is via debian
[09:04] <directhex> dholbach, but ubuntu's stricter governance helps give it enough discipline to actually release with some frequency
[09:04] <dholbach> directhex: is Ubuntu lacking democracy?
[09:04] <directhex> dholbach, it's more tiered.
[09:04] <directhex> dholbach, it's not a bad thing
[09:04] <dholbach> or asking differently ... is there an obvious point where you see it lacking/missing?
[09:04] <directhex> dholbach, ubuntu lowers barrier to entry for new developers, and REVU works much better than Mentors
[09:05] <directhex> dholbach, i can't think of anything "in terms of process and socially" which i'd highlight as "worse" in ubuntu. different, perhaps, but not worse
[09:05] <directhex> better in many cases
[09:05] <ajmitch> is it a feeling that MOTUs have less of a voice than core developers?
[09:06] <dholbach> ok... I just wanted to get a feeling for what your experience has been like
[09:06] <directhex> ajmitch, no, i think to an extent that's a good thing. i doubt ubuntu could release as often as it does if all ~18000 packages were given "equal merit" - the core-dev split allows the core packages to be given greater focus
[09:07] <directhex> dholbach, i feel that there are other areas that could do with improvement, especially coordination & sending patches to debian, but that's usually per-person and simply a case of "oops, didn't think it would be useful"
[09:07] <dholbach> ok
[09:07] <directhex> dholbach, and i think THAT'S grown frmo the hostility some debian developers express to their ubuntu peers
[09:07] <dholbach> directhex: do you have plans for Iron Python?
[09:08] <persia> directhex, While you're applying for MOTU today, you're also applying for Ubuntu Membership (as you do not already have it).
[09:08] <dholbach> you mention it on your application
[09:08] <directhex> dholbach, yes. i don't know how many things i have time for in karmic cycle, but i want to give ironpython some attention
[09:08] <directhex> dholbach, there's a major new release which is blocked on mono 2.2+
[09:08] <directhex> dholbach, and we need to formalise how we work with doko, who is still the sole package maintainer
[09:09] <persia> The irc logs for the past few months, include several phrases from you, which taken out of context, may not match expectations of CoC complaince (e.g. "$person is a liar" or "Sod Ubuntu").  How might act differently if speaking officially on behalf of Ubuntu?
[09:09] <ajmitch> directhex: fwiw, I'm planning to actually be active in ubuntu/debian development again, and will probably look at that too :)
[09:10] <directhex> hm
[09:12] <directhex> you can make anything out of contextless comments, IMHO.
[09:12] <directhex> the former was in response to an observed process by someone with documented issues with reality trying to influence ubuntu policy directly; the the latter could ahve been expanded to "don't take a dumb route to fit within the confines of current ubuntu capability - ubuntu can be fixed to do the right thing, so do the right thing now". but i'm missing yoru point i think
[09:13] <directhex> how would i act differently? i'd like to think i don't wave my "i have an ubuntu hat" hat about unneccessarily, and make it clear when i'm making formal statements and when i'm not
[09:13] <directhex> i'd feel uneasy about every comment i make on multiplayer notepad being taken as official canonical ltd policy
[09:14] <dholbach> hm? Canonical Limited policy?
[09:14] <dholbach> I'm sure I just missed something
[09:14] <persia> Well, set aside Canonical, but those who are Ubuntu Members are empowered to speak on behalf of Ubuntu.
[09:14] <directhex> persia, empowered to, or always doing so?
[09:15] <persia> Therein lies the complicated part :)
[09:15] <directhex> persia, again, i think that if people want to take statements out of context, they'll do so with or without any "call a spade a shovel" statements i make
[09:16] <directhex> and yes, i recognise that it's complicated. i've been a mdoerator on some large forums before, and generally, i've managed to make ti clear when i'm being a moderator and when i'm being a member
[09:18] <directhex> i'm generally quite direct when talking about things. irc is not a format for subtlety or nuanced turn of phrase
[09:18] <persia> jpds, dholbach soren: Other questions?
[09:19] <persia> geser, ?
[09:19] <dholbach> do you think there's a way to make comments like the one above less mistakable?
[09:20] <directhex> sugar-coating? usually. but not without sacrificing some of the implied courage of conviction
[09:20] <directhex> so could i be more subtle? yeah, very lkely
[09:20] <directhex> will i always remember to? i can't promise that, i'm only human
[09:20] <dholbach> oh... I wasn't talking about sugar-coating :)
[09:20] <persia> Well, it's not about subtlety, really.  It's about maintaining an atmosphere of respectful criticism.
[09:20] <dholbach> right, we're all human
[09:22] <directhex> persia, i'm fully respectful of everyone i work with and come into contact with in ubuntu
[09:22] <directhex> persia, and for the most part i'm not critical, respectful or otherwise, of their work - i've got full admiration for them taking their time to help make ubuntu more awesome
[09:22] <directhex> as i'd hope they feel towards me
[09:23] <directhex> awesomeness is important
[09:24] <dholbach> directhex: first of all I appreciate the work you've been doing and as I said in my endorsement I've been very happy with what I've been reviewing - I'm just wondering about the comment in your application saying that there was a need to "steal a package from somebody" - we don't really have the concept of package owner
[09:25] <ajmitch> I think that's more of a debian & pkg-mono thing in that specific case
[09:26] <directhex> a debian thing, yeah. if a package is owned by a DD who is active in ubuntu, then there's pretty much a de-facto package owner
[09:26] <dholbach> still I'd expect there was a way to come to a conclusion together
[09:26] <directhex> i'd hope so, definitely
[09:27] <directhex> i think the main issue is time, where someone's main driver is a very busy bunny
[09:27] <persia> dholbach, So it's really the word "steal" that you're addressing?
[09:27] <dholbach> persia: yes
[09:27] <directhex> so when i say "steal" i mean "adopt from someone far too busy"
[09:27] <directhex> this is probably a statement about stark language again isn't it @|
[09:27] <directhex> :|
[09:28] <ajmitch> perhaps a little too colloquial at times :)
[09:28] <dholbach> maybe I didn't grow up in the world of package owners - I don't really care too much about whose name is in the maintainer field
[09:28] <directhex> doko knows we want to make changes to ipy, but i haven't sat down & discussed at length with him yet because it's blocking on something else
[09:28] <dholbach> still I'd hope that there was a way to discuss it and come to a conclusion
[09:29] <directhex> dholbach, as long as the outcome is "package gets updated; debian gains awesomeness; ubuntu syncs awesomeness" then i'm happy. when there are no blockers, i'll try to schedule time to discuss with doko whether he wants to be maintainer, whether he wants help, or whether he wants to let pkg-cli-apps take over the package
[09:30] <dholbach> that outcome sounds good to my ears
[09:30] <directhex> dholbach, i'd seek to avoid any solution ending in the words "0ubuntu1" as a matter of course
[09:30] <dholbach> that was my last question
[09:31] <persia> soren, jpds geser ?
[09:31] <geser> no questions
[09:31] <jpds> Nothing from me.
[09:31]  * soren catches up
[09:32] <soren> No, I'm good.
[09:32] <persia> [vote] Jo Shields to become a MOTU
[09:32] <MootBot> Please vote on:  Jo Shields to become a MOTU.
[09:32] <MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
[09:32] <MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
[09:33] <dholbach> +1
[09:33] <MootBot> +1 received from dholbach. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
[09:33]  * soren likes keeping applicants in suspense :)
[09:33] <soren> +1
[09:33] <MootBot> +1 received from soren. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
[09:33] <ajmitch> soren: evil man
[09:33] <jpds> +1
[09:33] <MootBot> +1 received from jpds. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
[09:34] <geser> +1
[09:34] <MootBot> +1 received from geser. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
[09:34] <soren> ajmitch: "Takes one to know one" :)
[09:34] <persia> +0.  With a narrow interest, I'd rather see greater takeup of Per-Package uploaders.
[09:34] <persia> [endvote]
[09:34] <MootBot> Final result is 4 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 4
[09:34] <persia> directhex, Congratulations.
[09:34] <directhex> thank you
[09:34] <ajmitch> soren: how could I deny it?
[09:34] <dholbach> congratulations directhex
[09:34] <ajmitch> directhex: well done
[09:35] <james_w> congratulations directhex
[09:35]  * dholbach offers to do the "honours", or does anybody else want to do it?
[09:35] <directhex> that just leaves NM ;)
[09:35] <persia> dholbach, nhandler expressed some interest a few hours ago.
[09:36] <persia> [TOPIC] Other business
[09:36] <dholbach> well, I could do it *now* :)
[09:36] <MootBot> New Topic:  Other business
[09:36] <dholbach> no AOB from me
[09:36] <persia> Does anyone else have anything they want to bring before MOTU council at this time?
[09:36] <persia> dholbach, Well, if you like.  Up to you.
[09:36] <directhex> thanks to all
[09:37] <directhex> ajmitch, we'd love to see you rematerialize within pkg-mono if you're interested in rejoining. you're on the honour roll on the website, after all
[09:37] <ajmitch> directhex: oh that's nice to see :)
[09:37] <ajmitch> I'll need to familiarise myself with what's changed
[09:37] <persia> OK.  If there's nothing else, we'll adjourn.
[09:38] <persia> The next meeting will be 28th May, 17:00 UTC
[09:38] <persia> #endmeeting
[09:38] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 03:38.
[09:38] <dholbach> thanks all