=== bazhang_ is now known as bazhang === jcastro_ is now known as jcastro [06:15] elky: Are you about ??? [06:18] Oops wrong IRC ;-) === jussi01 is now known as Tuhina === Tuhina is now known as jussi01 === ember_ is now known as ember === asac_ is now known as asac === jussi01 is now known as tuhina === tuhina is now known as jussi01 === RoAk is now known as RoAkSoAx [22:05] #startmeeting [22:05] Meeting started at 16:05. The chair is cprofitt. [22:05] Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE] [22:05] [TOPIC] Mission Statement [22:05] New Topic: Mission Statement [22:06] [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning/Agenda [22:06] LINK received: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning/Agenda [22:06] Here [22:06] Hello all... [22:06] * pleia2 waves [22:06] Thanks for making it to the Ubuntu-Learning meeting [22:07] Thanks cp [22:07] Before we begin our first topic I would like to let everyone know that we need to prepare a 'rationale' for the CC (Community Council) meeting on June 2nd [22:08] [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning/Rationale [22:08] LINK received: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning/Rationale [22:08] We will use some of the topics today to help generate that [22:08] Should this not be a specification? [22:08] and we will discuss that later in the meeting... but I wanted you all to see that page. [22:08] OK [22:08] It will be part of the specification yes [22:08] DougieRichardson, I have seen that used as well... [22:09] Should I add my rationale to the page, or here? [22:09] now.... for the first topic... [22:09] to that page doctormo [22:09] Mission Statement [22:10] opens the floor up to any suggestions [22:10] I agree with the change proposed, basically swapping out the first line of the existing project outline with that one [22:10] I like the suggestion given on the wiki page [22:10] is that the correct understanding? [22:10] yes, that is the idea Vantrax [22:10] unless others want to suggest some more 'changes' to the word smithing [22:11] if there are no other comments we can vote on the proposed change... [22:11] I think you guys did a great job with it [22:11] [VOTE] Accept the proposed change to the mission statement (on the agenda) [22:11] Please vote on: Accept the proposed change to the mission statement (on the agenda). [22:11] Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to MootBot [22:11] E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting [22:11] +1 [22:11] +1 received from cprofitt. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1 [22:12] +1 [22:12] +1 received from thewrath. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2 [22:12] 0 [22:12] +0 [22:12] Abstention received from nhandler. 2 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 2 [22:12] +1 [22:12] +1 [22:12] +1 received from pleia2. 3 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 3 [22:12] +1 received from Vantrax. 4 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 4 [22:12] +1 [22:12] +1 received from DougieRichardson. 5 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 5 [22:12] Last call for votes [22:12] anyone need more time? [22:13] [ENDVOTE] [22:13] Final result is 5 for, 0 against. 1 abstained. Total: 5 [22:13] [AGREED] Change the mission statement to - The project is focused on building and maintaining an interactive learning environment(s) to support all aspects of the Ubuntu Ecosystem [22:13] AGREED received: Change the mission statement to - The project is focused on building and maintaining an interactive learning environment(s) to support all aspects of the Ubuntu Ecosystem [22:13] [TOPIC] Goals: We need to evaluate the goals of the whole project and draw up immediate goals, short term goals and long term goals. [22:13] New Topic: Goals: We need to evaluate the goals of the whole project and draw up immediate goals, short term goals and long term goals. [22:14] tall order :) [22:14] very tall [22:14] It is a tall order... [22:14] One short term goal would be to get approved by the CC [22:14] short term: contact teams, get moodle running [22:14] and one I do not think we can full flesh out here, but I would like to build consensus on that we need to evaluate... [22:14] my suggestion is to create concrete short term goals and become more general for the medium and long term [22:14] Gah my stupid computer crashed, I need the logs! [22:14] +1 Vantrax [22:15] Mid term goal is to create the 4 programs for stage 1 [22:15] I agree with immediate, short term, medium term, long range pool [22:15] cprofitt: +1 [22:15] I do not think we need to vote that they need to be fleshed out... [22:15] time frame would ideally be for 10.4 [22:15] that would be a good time period [22:16] Vantrax can you build a page on the wiki for goals... [22:16] problem will be work volume unless we have more contributors [22:16] it also depends on portions of the project [22:16] ill start one [22:16] Vantrax: i'll help u [22:16] the -classroom portion will still be recruiting folks to do IRC sessions [22:16] [ACTION] Vantrax to start wiki page for goals - immediate, short term, medium term, long range pool [22:16] ACTION received: Vantrax to start wiki page for goals - immediate, short term, medium term, long range pool [22:17] Vantrax: Design should focus on leveraing the community and community growth. [22:17] +1 pleia2 [22:17] I can help with doing some IRC sessions that should not be an issue [22:17] cprofitt: maybe we move on from this topic and let the wiki speak for itself? [22:17] yes [22:17] lets use the wiki as a draft page... and everyone can contribute their thoughts [22:18] hang on, does the wiki still say that we're here to serve the -classrooms irc lessons? [22:18] +1 cprofitt [22:18] doctormo: -classroom is a sub-project of Ubuntu Learning [22:18] doctormo, no... IRC -classroom is part of our overall project... [22:18] doctormo: do you mean like how the wording is that we server only the classroom lessons? [22:18] pleia2: Do we have a list of sub-projects? [22:18] some people who come on-board will use IRC [22:18] doctormo: official list? I don't think so [22:19] doctormo: they should be added to the LP [22:19] doctormo, we do not have such a list yet... [22:19] but so far, -classroom, beginners team education focus group [22:19] It would be good to have a list, I'm not in the IRC classrooms sub-project or it's agenda. [22:19] cprofitt & pleia2: would it be a good idea to list our sub projects on the wiki [22:19] ready to move to the next topic? [22:19] yep [22:19] doctormo, thewrath we will have a list of teams we are working with... [22:20] [TOPIC] Structure: Since this team is combining the efforts of several different teams I think a board should be setup for the leadership structure. There has been no discussion on this, but I think it is critical for continued teamwork and project cohesion [22:20] New Topic: Structure: Since this team is combining the efforts of several different teams I think a board should be setup for the leadership structure. There has been no discussion on this, but I think it is critical for continued teamwork and project cohesion [22:20] pleia2: can you add a affiliates part to the wiki page? [22:20] +1 cprofitt [22:20] Vantrax: yeah, I can do that [22:21] While I do not like formal structure to building teams... and community efforts... [22:21] i think the committe should have a member or two members from all teams concerned [22:21] with the fact that we are going to work with so many different teams I think we would be best served to do so [22:21] thewrath, that is a good idea until we have numerous teams... [22:22] I would like to suggest something akin to the BT structure, but I am open to suggestions [22:22] yeah, there are far too many teams for that to be feasible [22:22] not familiar with the BT structure, link? [22:22] cprofitt: my suggestion would be to have a 5 person project board [22:22] cprofitt: I'm not familiar with the BT structure, can you explain? [22:22] [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Structure [22:22] LINK received: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Structure [22:22] thanks nhandler [22:22] BT has bodhi as a perm board member, an the others are elected [22:23] The structure I am looking at is the Jedi Council on that page... [22:23] It's < 12 > 3 != 8, optimal team sizes of any kind. [22:23] and the BDFL = Bodhi [22:23] Anything not written from a Star Wars POV ;-) [22:23] lol [22:23] yes, less dorky please [22:23] * pleia2 grins [22:23] i agree sometihgn simialr to the BT jedia council structure i think would be feasible [22:23] UFBT = NERDS:P [22:23] We do not need the starwars references [22:24] I don't think we should have any perm board members [22:24] I know, next we'll be doing Star Trek federation councils [22:24] but otherwise it seems fine :) [22:24] doctormo: lol [22:24] I am thinking one 'head' position and a council of four perhaps... [22:24] that sounds good [22:24] why? [22:24] pleia2: agreed. members should be voted on [22:24] not sure of anyone's size thoughts [22:24] With cprofitt = head [22:24] cprofitt: -1, I don't think we need a head yet, none of us are yet in focus of the shared directives. [22:24] doctormo: +1 [22:25] doctormo, I agree with waiting on the head... [22:25] doctormo: that is also a reason for a head, to give direction [22:25] cprofitt: I think the "council" should have different people who have experience in the different areas/teams we are working with [22:25] There are only 19 people in ubuntu-learning, how many people are you envisaging in this venture and should it be this centrally controlled [22:25] but I think there is a reason for one as we move forward [22:25] doctormo: +1 [22:25] Vantrax: In this case, direction is an amalgamation of overlapping priorities, not something that isn't defined. [22:25] DougieRichardson, I envision many in the future... and many of those will also join the projects aligned with out efforts [22:26] right, so the "direction" of the project isn't always going to be best-served by a single leader [22:26] we come from lots of places and presumably all the board members will have different priorities (this will be healthy) [22:26] I was not looking at the head being an overlord [22:26] but a 'lead contact' [22:26] and tie-breaker [22:26] cprofitt: +1 [22:26] if we have no 'head' then we need 3 or 5 member board... [22:26] i like that idea. that should be what it is and not a lord [22:26] I'm unconvinced [22:27] A lead will be useful when we have someone who has joined from no other groups, who has contributed a great deal and is focused on the directives that form out of us as a group. [22:27] this is, and should always remain a colaberative process [22:27] Then we can have a head. [22:28] doctormo, pleia2 do we need a lead contact? [22:28] cprofitt: I don't think so [22:28] doctormo, pleia2 do we need an odd number on the board? [22:28] Yes [22:28] yes, odd number [22:28] 3 or 5? [22:28] I think an odd number is good to have for votes [22:28] 5 [22:28] 5 imo [22:28] 5 [22:28] if no dead def an odd number on the board [22:28] 5 sounds good [22:28] *lead not dead [22:28] ok... lets vote on that [22:29] [VOTE] Ubuntu-Learning will have a five person board [22:29] Please vote on: Ubuntu-Learning will have a five person board. [22:29] Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to MootBot [22:29] E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting [22:29] +1 [22:29] +1 [22:29] +1 received from cprofitt. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1 [22:29] +1 received from Vantrax. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2 [22:29] +1 [22:29] +1 received from thewrath. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3 [22:29] +1 [22:29] +1 [22:29] +1 received from nhandler. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4 [22:29] +1 received from pleia2. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5 [22:29] +1 [22:29] +1 received from doctormo. 6 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 6 [22:29] +0 [22:29] Abstention received from DougieRichardson. 6 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 6 [22:30] [ENDVOTE] [22:30] Final result is 6 for, 0 against. 1 abstained. Total: 6 [22:30] [AGREED] Ubuntu-Learning will have a five person board [22:30] AGREED received: Ubuntu-Learning will have a five person board [22:30] i would recommend the initial board be cp, bodhi, pleia, dr mo, and myself. [22:30] Should we vote for the board members? [22:31] not now... but next meeting [22:31] i think we should have a proposal of how is interested and why they should be on the board [22:31] yes, next meeting i would say [22:31] liek the fg leads in bt cprofitt ? [22:31] ok.... [22:31] *without the question mark [22:31] then I will create a page and people interested in being on the board can add their name, etc? [22:31] cprofitt: +1 [22:31] so we know who is interested [22:32] [ACTION] cprofitt will make wiki page for board candidates [22:32] ACTION received: cprofitt will make wiki page for board candidates [22:32] please do cp, link it the agenda [22:32] cprofitt: +1 great idea [22:32] I gotta get me a MootBot [22:32] [TOPIC] Meetings: Determine a 'best' time schedule for meetings. [22:32] New Topic: Meetings: Determine a 'best' time schedule for meetings. [22:32] Can everyone post their time zone [22:32] I think we should consider using Doodle to schedule meetings [22:32] GMT+10 [22:32] [LINK] http://www.doodle.com/ [22:32] LINK received: http://www.doodle.com/ [22:32] EDT (GMT-4) [22:32] cprofitt: most of us live in the western hemisphere [22:32] UTC-5 [22:33] EDT (GMT-4) [22:33] UTC+1 [22:33] UTC -5 [22:33] let me find out [22:33] thewrath: you're in my state, you're -4 :) [22:33] pleia2: ty [22:33] yeah... its UTC-5 when we are EST [22:33] we are EDT now... GMT-4 [22:33] pleia2: now its -4 seveal months from now its -5 [22:33] is doodle foss? [22:34] thewrath: you are mistaken [22:34] doctormo: I don't know, but we use it for other teams. It is an online tool (no registration needed) [22:34] nhandler, what does doodle do for scheduling? [22:34] oh yes, I used doodle just recently [22:34] nhandler: would be nice if this sort of thing was a druple/django module of some sort. bug beggars can't be choosers. [22:34] i'm the same as thewrath [22:35] why not use gcal? [22:35] cprofitt: You create a table listing possible dates and times. Users can then mark which dates/times work for them. It then displays the results in a nice table [22:35] Vantrax, what time zone are you? [22:35] ah... I found it back a ways [22:35] GMT+10 [22:35] Vantrax: gcal is only good for displaying the final meeting time, not choosing one [22:35] ^ GMT +10 [22:35] doodle example: http://doodle.com/fquzy498htwcv5ny [22:36] does doodle adjust for local times? [22:36] or is it set to one time? [22:36] Yes cprofitt [22:36] Each user can specify their time zone to have the possible times adjusted [22:36] nhandler, do you want to set one up for us then? [22:36] cprofitt: Sure [22:36] thanks [22:37] We are only interested in choosing a time, right? Not a date? [22:37] I would like to pick a 'day' and time [22:37] well, I'd like to see a weekend vs weekday option [22:37] and we need to decide if weekends / weekdays are good. [22:37] If everyone shows a typical week's availabilty we get a better guess at a time [22:37] DougieRichardson: +1 [22:37] I am thinking we need to meet every other week right now... [22:38] +1 DougieRichardson [22:38] what about frequency folks? [22:38] cprofitt: every 2 weeks for now [22:38] fortnightly [22:38] I'm available all times that the jobless usually are (except 00:00 to 07:00 EST, sleep) [22:38] we can adjust as needed [22:38] doctormo: bah, sleep :) [22:38] Ok, I'll setup the Doodle so we can choose a day of week and time [22:38] [AGREED] meetings every other week [22:38] AGREED received: meetings every other week [22:40] thanks nhandler [22:40] [TOPIC] Rationale: We need to document what the rationale is for forming a new 'team' or creating a 'project' for review by the Community Council [22:40] New Topic: Rationale: We need to document what the rationale is for forming a new 'team' or creating a 'project' for review by the Community Council [22:40] This was a request from bodhi [22:40] and I agree we need this to be a more comprehensive document in the end [22:40] cprofitt: can you explain the topic more [22:41] cprofitt: should we just add our thoughts to the rationale page? [22:41] bodhi wants to present the project to the Community Council on June 2nd [22:41] [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning/Rationale [22:41] LINK received: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning/Rationale [22:41] Yes, please everyone add your thoughts on that page [22:42] We will want to have a complete 'charter' or 'specification' in the end [22:42] but bodhi wants us to have the rationale by June 2nd [22:42] we will have another meeting before then [22:42] From the individual notes I will try to craft a draft... and we can vote on it next time [22:42] * pleia2 nods [22:43] It needs to follow this https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SpecSpec [22:43] by they way anyone who wears a fancy hat (Martin) gets bonus points for his ideas [22:43] [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SpecSpec [22:43] LINK received: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SpecSpec [22:43] * cprofitt smiles [22:43] The rationale is one part but the usage cases are the most important thing, IME [22:44] cprofitt: If it needs it, we should create a slight tree rationale where items that veer slightly are given their own sub-projects. [22:44] sounds good... [22:44] doctormo: +1 [22:44] If the usage cases are clear, other projects will grasp the advatage of the project quicker [22:44] everyone ok with process? [22:45] yep [22:45] From a very quick analsys we may end up with learning vectors as sub-projects. irc, locos, forums etc etc [22:45] [TOPIC] Review of announcement to Planet, and a call for input on program content. (Vantrax) [22:45] New Topic: Review of announcement to Planet, and a call for input on program content. (Vantrax) [22:46] everyone read the post im going to be putting up? [22:46] No, link? [22:46] its in the agenda [22:46] Ah [22:46] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning/Agenda [22:46] My personal thought upon quick read of the announcement is that we need to rework it given the mission statement change. [22:46] yep, i will update that bit [22:46] When are you thinking of releasing this? [22:46] The intention part of it reflects the original mission Vantrax posted, but not the new one. [22:46] Should those goals be meeting actions? [22:47] Vantrax: I mentioned it before, but we want to be very careful about our use of the word "training" - perhaps to the extent of not using it *at all* in our documentation [22:47] I am also thinking we may want to wait until we have the rationale done and after the CC meeting; but unsure of the process potential projects take [22:47] unless it's very specifically targeted :) [22:47] yeah, that is a point, but we are doing training, and its hard not to mention it [22:47] we're "learning" and "education" [22:47] pleia2: And for money, i.e. libal [22:48] I also think that the initial goal has to be expanded to include the idea of enabling teams to use Moodle to improve their existing training options [22:48] cprofitt: We should wait until the CC meeting. [22:48] instead of training why not use educating and teaching? [22:48] cprofitt: this int a potential project, it has been approved by canonical. The CC meeting is more an annoucement. [22:48] cprofitt: Teaching the tools and skills of teaching will be section 0, [22:48] an explanation of what we are doing if you will [22:48] Vantrax: s/We want to take users and turn them into contributing members of the community./We want to take users and turn them into contributing members of the community and expert users of Ubuntu. [22:48] or somesuch [22:48] pleia2: +1 [22:49] pleia2: +1, much more balanced :-) [22:49] We may have four tracks we all want to see, but the overall part of this project is 'improving' the educations efforts [22:49] sounds good [22:49] and expert users, maintainers and advocates of Ubuntu [22:50] doctormo: +1 [22:50] DougieRichardson, I agree we should wait until after the CC [22:50] Perhaps we should be less concerned about the topics in the description? [22:50] Vantrax, despite Canonical approval this is a community project [22:50] I mean, mentioning Ubuntu yes, but the aim is teaching and equiping teachers, no? [22:50] and needs approval from the community [22:51] the aim is to create a self sustaining education system in the end [22:51] A school? [22:51] A university? [22:51] which includes teaching teachers, developing materials, coordinating sessions [22:51] advertising [22:51] vantrax:it doesn't work like that. Canonical != Ubuntu [22:51] [VOTE] Wait on announcement until after CC meeting [22:51] Please vote on: Wait on announcement until after CC meeting. [22:51] Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to MootBot [22:51] E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting [22:51] +1 [22:51] +1 received from cprofitt. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1 [22:51] +1 [22:51] +1 received from DougieRichardson. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2 [22:51] +0 [22:51] Abstention received from nhandler. 2 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 2 [22:51] +1 [22:51] +1 received from thewrath. 3 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 3 [22:51] +1 [22:51] +1 received from doctormo. 4 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 4 [22:52] +1 [22:52] +1 received from pleia2. 5 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 5 [22:52] DougieRichardson: Jono Bacon = community manager? he already said go for it [22:52] +0 [22:52] Abstention received from Vantrax. 5 for, 0 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 5 [22:52] Vantrax: the community is more than jono [22:52] no argument there [22:52] [ENDVOTE] [22:52] Final result is 5 for, 0 against. 2 abstained. Total: 5 [22:52] Vantrax: he's more like the bridge from canonical to ubuntu with a bit of organisational flair. [22:53] [AGREED] Announcement will wait until after the CC meeting [22:53] AGREED received: Announcement will wait until after the CC meeting [22:53] vantrax: if we go to a CC meeting proclaiming an announcement, it will be rejected. [22:53] i agree with DougieRichardson after they have given us approval then announcement [22:53] thank you doctormo DougieRichardson and pleia2 for your advice in regards to the CC [22:53] fair enough:P [22:53] I respect you all and greatly appreciate the advice [22:54] <- is playing devils advocate tonight [22:54] Vantrax, will your reword the announcement and put it on a draft page? [22:54] sure [22:54] Vantrax: someone has to :) cheers [22:54] thanks. [22:54] ill link it into the agenda for the next meeting [22:54] Anyone have any non-agenda items? [22:54] Decent will be tollerated with a pillowed fist! [22:55] lol [22:55] Dissent ? [22:55] or Decent? [22:55] * cprofitt ponders [22:55] cprofitt: yea, creative dislexia [22:55] eww [22:55] sorry [22:55] doctormo, all forgiven with your hat [22:55] [ENDMEETING] [22:55] #endmeeting [22:55] #ENDMEETING [22:55] Meeting finished at 16:55. [22:55] thanks everyone... [22:55] very productive... [22:56] I appreciate all the fantastic work everyone has put in. [22:56] So the mode of the learning team is "under construction" until the announcement [22:56] more or less [22:56] i would defatinatly would like to help out with anything i can [22:57] Out of interest, how many are here from other interested teams? [22:57]