[12:03] <andreasn> p
[12:46] <thorwil> hi. what a great day. just lost my job. well, in 4 weeks, to be exact
[12:48] <andreasn> thorwil, ouch, sorry to hear that
[12:48] <andreasn> where do you work?
[12:48] <thorwil> andreasn, a call center not worth mentioning
[12:49] <andreasn> do you do any graphics design freelancing?
[12:49] <thorwil> andreasn, no, last time it looked like i might, the client went away
[12:50] <andreasn> I get requests for various things from time to time from various people. I don't have the time or interest to do them myself
[12:51] <kwwii> thorwil: ouch, sorry to hear that
[12:51] <andreasn> and the gnome designers I used to forward them too are now fulltime employees or super-busy with their current freelance missions
[12:52] <andreasn> so if you're interested, perhaps I can recommend you next time something comes up
[12:53] <thorwil> andreasn, sure i am interested. always depends on the details, of course. thanks for the offer :)
[12:53] <kwwii> http://sinecera.de/theme2_carbon.png ...any ideas for improvement?
[12:55] <thorwil> kwwii, i'd flip the scrollbar, because as is it looks like the slider belongs to the right edge, not the actual scrollable area
[12:56] <kwwii> thorwil: hrm good idea...it was supposed to look like it comes out of the left part and extends above and into the window...that clearly didn't get through :p
[13:01] <andreasn> one thing I liked about the XP and OSX scollbars are that they seemed to be made out of the same material as the area that they are scrolling
[13:01] <andreasn> http://s3.amazonaws.com/satisfaction-production/s3_images/17670/flock-drafts_inline.jpg
[13:01] <andreasn> http://img.skitch.com/20090323-qewg1fxje8tqmj9qj4d61mjj2b.jpg
[13:02] <andreasn> I'm not saying you should do this, but it might be worth considering
[13:02] <andreasn> in general, most GTK+ apps seems to threat the scrolling area as a completely different control than the window with padding and lines between it
[13:03] <thorwil> yeah, a mistake, i think
[13:03] <SiDi> I personnally find the osx ones ugly
[13:04] <andreasn> so the effect might be hard to achieve without a bunch of glade editing and possibly some changes to GTK+ itself
[13:19] <kwwii> well, if we would switch to blue everything would be much easier
[13:24] <andreasn> SiDi, ugly or beautiful, they get some of the physicalish design stuff right
[13:34] <andreasn> thorwil, I recall mpt was unhappy about that behavior as well, so maybe we should grab a GTK+ developer and look into how we can fix that (and how much work it would be etc.)
[13:36] <thorwil> andreasn, sure. i would add the bigger issue of hard-coded spacing between widgets. that just belongs to theming, especially with increasingly diverse devices
[13:37] <andreasn> I'm not sure how that is related. Shouldn't the space always be zero? Anyway, I think people are looking into the other issue already
[13:38] <andreasn> David Zeuten and David Madely (?)
[13:39] <thorwil> andreasn, well, having a gap or not having a gap next to scrollbars is related to spacing
[13:39] <andreasn> you mean if some themes want to do it wrong? :)
[13:40] <andreasn> hm, yeah, sure
[13:40] <thorwil> heh, sure. the more wrong and terrible ugly themes can be, the better, as it likely also means there's space for good stuf :)
[14:16] <kwwii> so, once again...http://sinecera.de/theme2_carbon2.png
[14:29] <zniavre> the rebirth of ubuntulooks ?
[14:48] <kwwii> zniavre: nope, just some stuff i was playing with
[14:49] <kwwii> thorwil: can you take a look at the wallpaper brief? I think it is ready but maybe you can find something to improve: http://sinecera.de/karmic_wallpaper_notfinal.pdf
[14:50] <SiDi> Canonical should recruit thorwil imo :]
[16:18] <thorwil> was busy, garden work
[16:21] <thorwil> kwwii, reads very familiar ;)
[16:22] <thorwil> kwwii, Implementation page could be a good place to point to the SVG and XCF templates
[16:23] <thorwil> kwwii, i'd drop the Color Palette page. it's so ingrained by now, many will conform, anyway. but you should embiggen the chance of pleasant surprises
[16:25] <thorwil> kwwii, but if you keep it, consider placing the palette image to fit with the "Use warm colors ..." paragraph from the previous page
[16:43] <thorwil> kwwii, don't you think the slogans should be in the brief?
[17:54]  * thorwil -> dinner
[18:35] <thorwil> back