* zaafouri is away (brb =))00:47
=== zaafouri is now known as ubuntu-tn
nhandlerubuntu-tn: Could you please disable your away script?00:51
=== nhandler_ is now known as nhandler
=== quinlan is now known as Pfiffer
=== Tonio__ is now known as Tonio_
=== BrucevdKooij is now known as Brucevdk
=== Nafallo_ is now known as Nafallo
=== ubuntu-tn is now known as zaafouri
=== Tonio__ is now known as Tonio_
* zaafouri is away (brb =))09:55
=== zaafouri is now known as ubuntu-tn
Hobbseeubuntu-tn: when are you going to remove that message?10:05
=== Keybuk_ is now known as Keybuk
=== _neversfelde is now known as neversfelde
=== asac_ is now known as asac
=== beuno_ is now known as beuno
MootBotMeeting started at 10:11. The chair is robbiew.16:11
MootBotCommands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]16:11
cjwatson_argh, sorry I'm late, got held up on the school run16:11
robbiewhey mterry16:11
=== cjwatson_ is now known as cjwatson
robbiewwelcome to the party16:12
robbiewcjwatson: not late16:12
james_whi mterry16:12
robbiewI had to start late...conflicting meeting earlier16:12
cjwatsonoh, you delayed the start, perfect then16:12
robbiewmvo, persia, and slangasek are on vacation today16:12
TheMusoyy! Means I'll hopefully get to bed that much sooner. :p16:12
TheMusoyay even16:13
Keybukrobbiew: persia?16:13
robbiew[TOPIC] Karmic Alpha 116:13
MootBotNew Topic:  Karmic Alpha 116:13
cjwatsonalpha 1 is being ... fun16:13
robbiewKeybuk: sorry, I forget muharem's handle16:13
dholbachrobbiew: al- maisan16:13
cjwatsonI think we may just manage to squeak in inside the deadline16:13
robbiewpersia is emmet16:13
* dholbach hugs robbiew16:14
cjwatsonit's been suffering from size problems, and a number of the usual early-in-the-release teething problems16:14
* TheMuso will test studio images tomorrow, or should I say later today, in a VM.16:14
cjwatsonnotably, it isn't going to have live CDs16:14
robbiewcjwatson: well...it's Thursday somewhere in the world16:14
ograand no kernel on armel ...16:14
cjwatsonpitti's been doing a lot of work to get it in shape16:14
liwit's going to be Thursday for a long time on Saturn, isn't it?16:14
* robbiew hugs pitti16:14
cjwatsonright, and armel is screwed, ran into an ld segfault with the most recent kernel build16:14
cjwatsonI'm not up to date with the status on that16:14
ograi think doko has an idea what to do16:15
ograi collected data the whole day16:15
dokotesting a fix16:15
ograBug #375991 for anyone intrested16:15
* robbiew admits that with UDS and PDRs...and AllHands I've been embarrassingly clueless about Alpha 1 status16:15
ubottuError: Could not parse data returned by Launchpad: The read operation timed out (https://launchpad.net/bugs/375991/+text)16:15
* mterry pats ubottu16:16
* liw admits that what with being an idiot he's clueless about Alpha 1 status16:16
robbiewhi al-maisan...realized you are NOT on vacation today :P16:16
Keybukrobbiew: Alpha 1 Status is... "Everything Will Be Ok"16:17
* robbiew types in wrong window16:17
ografor alpha 216:17
Keybukogra: <g>16:17
cjwatsonI've been looking at unionfs-fuse as a possible live CD option16:17
cjwatsonon one level it scares the bejesus out of me16:17
ogracjwatson, did you look at the devicemapper thing fedora uses ?16:18
cjwatsonon another level it seems like a good way to work around the fact that union filesystems scare the bejesus out of kernel developers :-)16:18
cjwatsonogra: yes, we looked at that, the BIG BIG BIG downside is that there's no way to make it rsyncable16:18
cjwatsonI can only assume Fedora don't care since lots of them work in offices with good bandwidth16:18
evandthat was quite hilarious16:18
cjwatsonthe choices with their approach are:16:18
ograis there any chance we'll see aufs/unionfs coming back ?16:18
cjwatson* gzip (which doesn't fit)16:19
Keybuka change to /etc/issue, recompressed, resulted in every single byte of the compressed filesystem changing16:19
cjwatson* lzma (which doesn't rsync)16:19
cjwatsonogra: I'm not sure16:19
cjwatsonthat's why I'm looking at unionfs-fuse :-)16:19
* ogra hopes so16:19
ograelse ltsp will need a serious rewrite16:19
KeybukFedora don't test their CDs, so it's never really been a problem with them16:19
ograthough i can steal from you :)16:19
cjwatsonit's not working right now, but I'm getting the sense of "nearly there, if only I can find the little bugs that completely break it"16:19
cjwatsonI mean, the filesystem mounts fine16:19
TheMusocjwatson: For some context, whats up with aufs/whatever we were using in the kernel to do this?16:20
cjwatsonproblem is that as soon as we do mount -n -o move /cdrom /root/cdrom it completely and utterly falls over16:20
cjwatsonTheMuso: it's been repeatedly refused for merge upstream, and doesn't apply to our current kernel16:20
KeybukTheMuso: rejected upstream, maintainer/author has vanished, doesn't even apply to the current kernel version, etc.16:20
cjwatsonwe used to use unionfs and I think that's even worse16:20
TheMusoUserspace does certainly sound like an option then.16:20
ograits just a hell of a transition on all fronts16:21
cjwatsonopensuse has a "clicfs" container that lets you wrap compression around more or less an arbitrary filesystem, but that has the same problems as the fedora approach16:21
liwis lzma inherently un-rsyncably?16:21
cjwatsonogra: the casper change is actually really small, I think16:21
Keybukliw: the appropriate phrase is "lzma and rsync are mortal enemies"16:21
cjwatsonliw: yes, it arises from its large block size which is where it gets its excellent compression ratios16:21
cjwatsonI could be wrong, but I don't *think* it's a fixable property16:22
Keybukyou could have rsync unlzma it at one end, transfer the uncompressed, and then re-compress on the other end16:22
Keybukbut the re-compression alone takes longer than just "wget" on the image16:22
Keybukexcept possibly on a 14400 baud modem16:22
cjwatsonso far, TBH, unionfs-fuse is the only thing I've seen that's even slightly viable - I'm more than open to other suggestions16:22
Keybukcjwatson: RH are working on an interesting alternate approach to union filesystems16:23
Keybukbut it's a long way off if we didn't help16:23
Keybukdoing it at the VFS layer16:23
Keybukmount --union basically16:23
cjwatsonah, right16:23
jjohansenunion mounts aren't going in anytime soon16:23
cjwatsonwe'd need to keep aufs on life support for some time if that were the case16:23
Keybukjjohansen: right, I just said that ;P16:24
jjohansenKeybuk: yeah, I just meant it more from a likely never angle16:24
liwI asked Lasse Collin (LZMA Utils upstream) about lzma+rsync: http://sourceforge.net/forum/forum.php?thread_id=3272163&forum_id=708858 was his response16:24
robbiewokay...moving on16:26
robbiew[TOPIC] UDS16:26
MootBotNew Topic:  UDS16:26
cjwatsonliw: hmm, interesting that it's not a "no, never" kind of thing16:26
cjwatsonthanks for that16:26
robbiewhas everyone gotten a chance to see the schedule?16:26
robbiewhttp://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-karmic/foundations-a/ http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-karmic/foundations-b/16:26
MootBotLINK received:  http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-karmic/foundations-a/ http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-karmic/foundations-b/16:26
TheMusoHaven't looked at since last week, so nothing thats changed recently.16:26
* evand wants to be in too many rooms at the same time :(16:27
liwLarhzu is Lasse Collin16:27
robbiewI will be going through our sessions, to be sure I have someone to lead the discussion16:28
robbiewas I cannot with two rooms going at once16:28
robbiewI think I'll shoot an email out with all the sessions and who I think should lead16:28
robbiewthen go from there16:28
liwLarhzu, we _just_ moved to the next topic, but I'm sure cjwatson would be interested in your further comments about lzma+rsync; I forwarded the URL gave me already16:29
Larhzuliw mentioned something about compressing live-CD with LZMA and keeping small changes rsyncable. Is the live-CD compressed with Squashfs or are there normal compressed .deb files or what?16:29
robbiewI got an email from Kees requesting "representation" in a few security team sessions16:29
cjwatsonLarhzu: can we move to #ubuntu-devel?16:29
Larhzucjwatson: Sure16:29
robbiewI will read over them and find the appropriate folks16:30
robbiew[TOPIC] AllHands16:30
MootBotNew Topic:  AllHands16:30
robbiewFor those doing presentations...deadline is this Friday16:30
* robbiew needs to start his :/16:31
robbiewnot much else to say there16:31
liwfor once I'm ahead of schedule16:31
robbiew[TOPIC] Performance Reviews16:32
MootBotNew Topic:  Performance Reviews16:32
robbiewEveryone should be done with 360s16:32
robbiewmanagers are waiting on the go ahead to provide raise recommendations16:32
robbiewthe deadline for review discussions is June 26th16:32
robbiewI don't think I will have the bandwidth to do any until after UDS16:33
robbiewthough I'd prefer to do it face-to-face16:33
robbiewjust not sure how feasible that will be16:33
robbiewI guess I can "aim high"16:33
robbiewany questions about reviews?16:34
robbiewguess not16:34
robbiew[TOPIC] Team changes16:34
MootBotNew Topic:  Team changes16:34
robbiewso...we have mterry and al-maisan officially :D16:35
robbiewmterry for 6months...and al-maisan for 316:35
* mterry waves16:36
al-maisanhello :)16:36
Keybukwelcome! :)16:36
robbiewso he misses the "awesome" release sprint16:36
robbiewdoko is sadly rotating out starting after UDS16:36
cjwatsonwelcome to you both16:36
TheMusoWelcome gys.16:36
robbiewbut will be available for 20% of his time16:36
al-maisanthanks :)16:36
dokoand he avoid being hurt by Keybuk at the sprint ...16:36
cjwatsondoko will be missed; but also will be back (yay)16:36
TheMusogah its late. :p16:36
* mterry will do his best doko impression for 6 months16:36
robbiewmterry heh16:37
robbiewthat's a hefty task16:37
robbiewsadly, TheMuso will be moving to desktop :(16:37
robbiewwith the new Audio Experience Architect for DX coming16:37
robbiewjust made more sense to have audio in the desktop team16:38
TheMusoFair enough.16:38
TheMusoAs I said to robbiew the other day, I'm not fussed either way.16:38
* robbiew also thinks accessibility will benefit from this move as well16:38
TheMusoa11y also plays a big part in desktop also.16:38
robbiewso...that will leave dmraid to someone else16:38
robbiewi'm sure TheMuso heartbroken over that :P16:39
TheMusorobbiew: Is there anyone else who can take it up in the short term?16:39
robbiewany volunteers?16:39
Keybuksounds like that belongs on the server team ;)16:39
TheMusorobbiew: I'm not, bt its a question of who knows it/has the hardware, etc.16:39
robbiewKeybuk: nice try16:39
robbiewTheMuso: do you have the hardware?16:39
TheMusorobbiew: Yes.16:39
liwis dmraid not in the kernel?16:39
robbiewah...is it yours? or Canonical's16:40
* robbiew thinking we could ship it16:40
TheMusoIts a coincidence, but yes16:40
TheMusorobbiew: Its mine, its my primary desktop workstation.16:40
robbiewdamn :/16:40
TheMusorobbiew: All thats needed is a recent intel chipset motherboard with an intel ICH/AHCI controller.16:40
liwremind me, does dmraid refer to the cheap raid chips on most motherboard these days?16:40
TheMusoliw: Yes.16:40
robbiewsounds like a volunteer to me...thanks liw!16:41
cjwatsonliw: dmraid has (fairly significant) userspace pieces too16:41
TheMusoIts nothing hardware related, its all software. The BIOS writes metadata to the disks, and its all managed by dmraid16:41
liwrobbiew, I can barely get the kernel to recognize my hard disks as it is :P16:41
TheMusorobbiew: thanks for taking it off my hands. I will help with testing if its ever needed however.16:42
robbiewTheMuso: thanks for taking audio with you :P16:42
TheMusoI don't know were I'd be without dtchen.16:42
robbiewwe don't have to sort out the dmraid issue now...but will need to by UDS16:43
* doko hands over the a11y and pulseaudio openjdk parts16:43
TheMusodoko: Sure I can do java-access-bridge if thats any help.16:43
robbiewthat reminds me..doko will be providing a list of things he will NOT be doing this cycle16:44
robbiewwe will need to assign these work items within the team16:44
robbiewso it's going to be an interesting release :D16:44
* robbiew will work on growing the team...at least a warm body to backfill TheMuso16:45
robbiew[TOPIC]AOB/Good News?16:45
MootBotNew Topic: AOB/Good News?16:45
robbiewAny Other Business16:46
al-maisanah :)16:46
TheMusoYes, I may be attending meetings at a more suitable time thanks to my team move. :p16:46
robbiewokay...thanks all16:46
MootBotMeeting finished at 10:46.16:46
robbiewsee ya next week!16:47
TheMusoThanks folks, and see ou all at all-hands.16:47
* TheMuso -> bed16:47
=== e-jat is now known as b
=== b is now known as e-jat
henohey everyone18:00
* charlie-tca waves18:01
henosbeattie: here?18:02
henoeeejay: ?18:02
henolet's start18:03
MootBotMeeting started at 12:03. The chair is heno.18:03
MootBotCommands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]18:03
henoagenda as usual: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Meetings18:03
heno[TOPIC] UbuntuBugDay highlights -- pedro18:04
MootBotNew Topic:  UbuntuBugDay highlights -- pedro18:04
pedro_We had a Compiz based hug day last Thursday http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/2009050718:04
pedro_around 41 bug were hugged18:04
pedro_Thanks a lot to showard314, jgoguen, kklimonda and bdmurray who made a great job during it18:05
mguneshi all18:05
pedro_Tomorrow, we're having a New bugs without a package hug day: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/2009051418:06
pedro_as soon as we announced it people started to work on the task, thanks you folks!18:06
henogreat, thank you18:06
pedro_so i'm just expecting to have a really rocking hug day tomorrow ;-)18:06
heno[TOPIC] New bug control members! -- bdmurray18:07
MootBotNew Topic:  New bug control members! -- bdmurray18:07
bdmurrayThis week we had an application from Geir Ove Myhr who has been working on xserver-xorg-video-intel bugs and was heartily endorse by Bryce Harrington.18:07
bdmurraySubsequently, his membership was approved.18:08
henosounds great18:08
bdmurrayHe has also added himself to the mentors list which is good!18:08
henospeaking of bug-control ...18:08
henoI'd like to request provisional membership for plars who is currently working on migrating unr bugs18:09
henoHe should apply in the proper way, but needs access now for this task18:09
henoI know I have the LP powers to grant that but I want to check with this meeting and the bugmaster :)18:11
bdmurrayHe needs access to private bugs or other statuses?18:11
plarsjust to be able to match the importance of the bug I'm migrating to, to the one it came from18:12
henoHe works for Canonical on the mobile QA team and is moving unr project bugs to Ubuntu and needs to set importances18:12
bdmurrayoh right, you are moving bugs from a project to Ubuntu?18:12
henoI would suggest a 2-3 week membership with the understanding that it will only be used for this18:13
henoin that time he should apply in the regular way18:13
henoplars: see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugControl18:13
henoWe've decided not to special case Canonical folks by just letting them in, which is why I'm asking us to consider the case here18:15
henobdmurray: do you have concerns?18:15
bdmurrayheno: Nope, sounds reasonable.  Until 6/3 then?18:16
henosounds good18:16
henoany other bug-control news?18:16
bdmurrayplars: can you click the join team link at https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-bugcontrol? it'll make things a wee bit easier18:16
bdmurrayThe ubuntu-core-doc (Ubuntu Documentation Committers) team was also added to bug control.18:17
plarsbdmurray: done18:17
bdmurrayIt is a subset of the ubuntu doc team and is useful since their package(s)? are now tracking bugs in Ubuntu as opposed to a project18:18
henook great18:18
henois their upload limited to doc packages by LP?18:18
henoor can they upload kernels? :)18:19
bdmurrayThey have bzr commit access to the documentation18:19
henomakes sense18:19
heno[TOPIC] Bug Squad had a meeting -- bdmurray18:19
MootBotNew Topic:  Bug Squad had a meeting -- bdmurray18:19
bdmurrayandresmujica organized a Bug Squad meeting yesterday18:20
bdmurrayThe minutes can be found at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BugSquad/Meeting/Minutes/2009-12-0518:21
henoThat's fantastic to see!18:21
bdmurrayThe discussion was quite useful I thought and there will be a next meeting on June 9th18:21
mgunesare bug squad meetings to be periodic?18:22
bdmurraymgunes: It was decided the 2nd Tuesday of the month18:22
mgunesbdmurray, cool, thanks18:22
bdmurrayUnless there becomes too much to talk about in which the frequency may be increased18:22
bdmurrayin which case18:23
henoAnd it's essentially a bugsquad+control meeting, right? No need to have two I guess18:23
bdmurrayheno: that's correct18:24
heno[TOPIC] UDS preparations -- heno18:24
MootBotNew Topic:  UDS preparations -- heno18:24
henothe schedules are here http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-karmic/18:25
mgunesI will be soliciting feedback about my tester weather report spec in the following days, initially from testers, about what kind of features and design they would find useful, and flesh out the spec a bit to pre-discussion state.18:25
henomgunes: sounds great18:25
henoI'd encourage everyone to look at the specs and help write meeting agendas and use cases18:26
henoI think schwuk was going to set up all the gobby documents ahead of time18:27
mgunesheno, that would be great - we should make sure we have a predecided scheme for gobby document names to avoid chaos.18:28
henoWe also have plenty of space in Room B this time for break-out discussions18:28
arais anyone having the scroll left-right problem in summit.ubuntu.com18:29
henowe should go with gobby name == <prefix> + LP blueprint name18:29
araif you click on monday, the room b does not show up, but it does not have a scroll18:29
faderara: I don't get a scrollbar but I am able to scroll with arrow keys18:30
arafader: cool, thanks18:30
henoI'm not seeing that problem18:30
charlie-tcaI get no scroll bars18:30
pedro_i do get a scrollbar here18:30
henoschwuk: we were just talking about setting up gobby documents18:31
davmor2no scroll here on my big screen18:31
henowe should populate them with wiki raw text of stub specs18:31
henoand give them predictable names18:31
fader(Ah, I do get scrollbars, but they're inside an iframe or something so they're kinda tough to find at first)18:32
heno<heno> we should go with gobby name == <prefix> + LP blueprint name18:32
schwukheno: Most of the blueprints are prefixed with qa- anyway18:32
schwukBut we could add uds- or karmic-18:32
davmor2qa-karmic team and version18:33
schwukShould we (I) create them all in advance, or shall we set them up on the day?18:33
henoI'd prefer in advance and referenced on the wiki page18:34
henoto reduce confusion18:34
schwukheno: then that's what I'll do.18:34
henothen we just sync wiki->gobby when we start in case people have updated the wiki18:34
henoschwuk: thanks!18:35
schwukAny more suggestions for a prefix, or shall we go with qa-karmic-<blueprintname>18:35
schwukAlthough that will duplicate the qa- bit.18:35
schwuke.g. qa-karmic-qa-extend-apport-coverage18:36
henoworks for me, that will get them grouped all under q18:36
araheno, bdmurray: could you change the links under summit.ubuntu.com to the LP blueprints?18:36
ara(instead of the wiki spec)18:36
arait makes it easier to subscribe18:36
henoschwuk: it does, but that's ok I think18:36
arabecause there are cases where the spec is a 40418:36
schwukara the icon in the corner takes you to hte blueprint18:36
schwukara: all the specs will be there by CoP tomorrow18:37
bdmurraythe naming scheme seems redundant to me fwiw18:37
henobdmurray: the two qa's?18:37
araschwuk: ok, thanks :)18:37
schwukbdmurray: agreed, but easier to c'n'p :)18:37
bdmurrayyeah, I'd rather karmic-qa-yada-yada18:38
henowould we break everything if we renamed the actual LP entries?18:38
henothat way we could have an exact  match18:38
schwukheno: no - I'd just have to redo links18:38
schwukbut that's not a huge job18:38
henoschwuk: can you follow that up18:39
schwukheno: sure18:39
henothen we can have karmic-qa-yada-yada18:39
henoschwuk: great, thanks18:39
henoany other questions about UDS?18:39
henoany other meeting topics?18:40
davmor2I only have questions about meetings for the next 2 weeks.  Most of you will be fried so will these stop till after uds?18:41
bdmurrayWill there be a hug day the next 2 weeks?18:41
henoI cannot promise to make it to this meeting next week, but if someone else volunteers to chair it ...18:42
henoThere is a Canonical event starting that day18:42
davmor2heno: want most people be at all-hands?18:43
henoso must of us will likely be unavailable18:43
davmor2won't not want18:43
pedro_bdmurray: not sure, will ask on the bugsquad mailing list if someone wants to organize it since we're going to be at allhands18:43
pedro_and later uds18:43
mgunesWhen are the Canonical people arriving for All Hands?18:43
davmor2heno: I think it will be better to postpone till after uds then18:43
pedro_bdmurray: also the next targets are update-manager/notifier and synaptic but I'd like to have mvo involved on that as well, so we might need another target for those weeks18:44
henook, let's do that then18:44
davmor2so next meeting will be 2009060318:44
henowhat about hug days18:46
henodid we decide to postpone those too?18:46
pedro_heno: I'm going to make a call for help on the bugsquad mailing list, if nobody is interesting on run it i guess we can postpone those18:48
henopedro_: sounds good18:48
henoany other topics?18:48
henothanks everyone!18:49
MootBotMeeting finished at 12:49.18:49
schwukthanks heno18:49
henosee some of you next week and the week after!18:49
mgunesthanks all18:50
pedro_thanks you18:51
=== fader is now known as fader|lunch
=== yofel_ is now known as yofel
=== guest23323r_ is now known as mgunes
=== yofel__ is now known as yofel

Generated by irclog2html.py 2.7 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!