/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2009/05/14/#ubuntu-meeting.txt

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ricaxe     /msg nickserv register <your-password> <your-email>14:35
ricaxe     /msg nickserv register <0pt1m15ta> <ricaxexl@sapo.pt>14:35
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persiaricaxe, You might want to change your password14:36
ricaxeya14:36
ricaxe.:D14:36
ricaxesorye14:36
ricaxei dont work with irc long time ago ...14:36
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ricaxei was trying to joint to some team of ubuntu art work14:42
persiaSo, who's here for the Java meeting?15:11
ttxo/15:11
persiaI see we again have the attention of the plurality of the channel :)15:12
persiaI completely failed to prepare for today, so the wiki is probably out of date.15:12
ttxStill seems valid to me :)15:12
persiaagenda is, as usual, at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JavaTeam/Meeting15:12
persiasays next meeting is 30th April :)15:12
ttxyeah, right, but time is such a fuzzy dimension...15:12
persiaRoadmap needs a cleanup.  I propose we do another big call for participants, and modify the future roadmap as a result.15:12
ttxyes.15:12
persiaOK.  I'll send out such an email.15:12
persiaAnyway robilad, slytherin, and ludovicc aren't here.  I was (again) useless.15:12
persiattx, Did you make any progress?  I saw the post about Contents.15:12
ttxI proposed a training session for June15:13
ttxdidn't make the cut for May15:13
persiaThat should still give us a bit of time.15:13
persiaNext up: Karmic Specs15:13
persiaI suggest we probably want to merge that into the Roadmap planning.15:13
ttxyes, that's linked to it15:13
persiaOK.  Next up is other business.15:13
ttxI have two Java-related UDS sessions / blueprints15:13
persiaWhich ones?15:14
ttxOne about refactoring the giant eucalyptus-javadepos package into proper separate packages15:14
ttxhttps://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/server-karmic-euca-javadeps-refactoring15:14
ttxthe other one about how to reduce the number of dependencies needing to move to main if we want eucalyptus in main15:14
ttxhttps://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/server-karmic-eucalyptus-in-main15:14
ttxIn both cases they are of interest to Java packagers15:14
ScottKHow closely does Ubuntu Java work with Debian?15:14
ttxScottK: very closely. For example they work on packaging Spring and asked us for testing15:15
persiaScottK, Very.  In fact, we try to do nothing :)15:15
ScottKExcellent.15:15
ttxunfortunately I failed in getting Debian-Java guys sponsored for UDS15:15
persiaWell, we do a fair bit of experimentation with OpenJDK, but lots of that is in close coordination with pkg-java.15:15
persiaWe used to have some pkg-java people come to the meetings, but one went MIA, and the other got busy with other stuff.15:15
ttxpersia: I don't think we have other Java-oriented sessions at UDS ?15:16
persiaI don't think so.  There's usually one with Sun folk if they attend (at least for the past three).  Would be on the foundations track.15:19
ttxdoublechecking15:19
ttxhhhm no. We could do an adhoc one if we can identify Java-oriented people on site15:19
ttxthere is the Eclipse talk15:20
persiaOh goody.  That's a sore point that needs fixing.15:20
persia(although things like SWT are oddly stuck for a number of packages)15:20
ttxhttps://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/foundations-karmic-eclipse-update15:20
ttxpersia: not "oddly", "Javaly"15:20
* ttx checks if he can make this one15:22
persiattx, No, oddly.  See, there's this embedded SWT in eclipse (and also a separate SWT in the archive), and many packages decided to depend on the embedded SWT, which was split out...15:22
ttxhmm.. difficult15:22
persiaIndeed.15:22
persiaBut soluable, even if just by supplying a versioned package.15:22
persiaAnyway, I've a couple other things:15:24
persia1) david_yu came by in #ubuntu-java earlier, and expressed a desire to help get stuff done for maven and jetty, but he's in UTC+8, and thinks this meeting happens too late.15:24
persiaWhat do you think about moving it a few hours earlier?15:24
ttxpersia: what time do you propose ?15:26
persiaHrm.  Maybe 11:00 or so?15:27
ttxI'd prefer avoiding the 1000-1200 slot if possible. Anything 0600-1000 1200-1700 is ok for me though15:28
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persiaI'd be happy with 9:00, and suspect it would work for +8.  That mostly excludes the americas though.15:30
ttxlet's try it... it would work for Onkar as well15:31
persiaSounds good.15:31
persiaNext up; meeting dates.  I'd prefer to skip the meeting during UDS, and I'd rather not have a big organisational meeting and then a two week gap, so I'd rather to the big call for people for th 4th of June.15:32
persiaDo you expect there's enough to discuss that we ought have one next week?15:32
ttxok15:32
ttxpersia: probably not15:34
ttxI'll echo the June 4th call on my blog15:34
ttx(when sent)15:34
persiaOK.  I'll try to get the mail out this weekend.15:34
persiaanything else?15:34
ttxno.15:34
persiameeting adjourned then :)15:36
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* lool waves21:56
* persia wavers21:57
* davidm waves21:58
dyfetwaving?21:58
NCommander#startmeeting22:00
MootBotMeeting started at 16:00. The chair is NCommander.22:00
MootBotCommands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]22:00
GrueMasterWhat timing.22:00
ogra_moop22:01
NCommander[link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2009/2009051422:01
MootBotLINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2009/2009051422:01
NCommander[topic] Action Item Review22:01
MootBotNew Topic:  Action Item Review22:01
loolno roll call?22:01
NCommanderlool, I've never done it before ...22:02
* lool pokes plars davidm and StevenK just in case22:02
* davidm ouch 22:02
ogra_heh22:02
loolpaulliu22:02
loolprobably bad time for him22:02
* NCommander won't think lool's poke was capable of hurting people.22:02
* lool loads bug urls22:03
davidmNCommander, continue please22:03
NCommander[topic] NCommander to investigate 33814822:03
MootBotNew Topic:  NCommander to investigate 33814822:03
NCommanderc/o22:03
NCommander[topic] GrueMaster to test newer version of Hildon Desktop to see if it resolves cat kills MID bug22:04
MootBotNew Topic:  GrueMaster to test newer version of Hildon Desktop to see if it resolves cat kills MID bug22:04
GrueMasterCO22:04
NCommander[topic] NCommander and GrueMaster to debug #33780922:04
MootBotNew Topic:  NCommander and GrueMaster to debug #33780922:04
NCommanderco22:04
NCommander[topic] StevenK to follow up with Tim on lpia kernel configuration22:04
MootBotNew Topic:  StevenK to follow up with Tim on lpia kernel configuration22:04
NCommanderNo StevenK ...22:04
NCommanderso co22:04
davidmI'm calling him now22:04
NCommanderOk, I'll wait a minute22:04
davidmHe will join in a moment22:05
NCommanderk22:05
davidmor so22:05
NCommanderI'll come back to when he returns22:05
NCommander[topic] Outstanding bugs of interest22:05
MootBotNew Topic:  Outstanding bugs of interest22:05
NCommanderThere's been no progress on #299847, #338148, and #33780922:05
NCommanderlool, you have some bugs for us?22:05
* ogra_ notes that oo.o and linux are still building on armel22:06
loolCan't open them that fast22:06
loolI changed the references to bugs in the agenda to URLs22:07
loolNCommander: where's the list of bugs again?22:07
ogra_and in case people dont know yet, we are not able to build livecds due to lack of aufs/unionfs22:07
NCommanderlool, I've been using the roadmap22:07
NCommander[link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Roadmap22:07
MootBotLINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Roadmap22:07
* lool adds a link to roadmap on meeting page22:08
ogra_there is one22:08
ogra_at the top22:08
persiaOn the agenda even :)22:08
loolOh, I didn't see it was added to the title bar, cool22:09
loolWell I don't have bugs to discuss22:10
loolBut we could cover the lpia situation quickly22:10
loolSo basically the toolchain was setup to target atom, which implies sse3 and ssse3, and perhaps other features22:10
loolMatthias will roll that back and go to pentium-m or i686 for now as a stop gap because the binaries don't run on the livefs builder22:11
StevenKWell, they do run, they just SIGILL :-)22:11
loolI propose we revisit this situation after UDS, when we have the occasion to discuss the fate of MID which is the only lpia image22:11
loolWe don't have a session on other lpia images, but if we target pure atom we will lack a livefs, so we must know whether that's an issue22:12
ogra_wasnt there a topic to build UNR lpia ?22:12
persiaI'm not sure that most of those interested in MID are also interested in lpia these days.22:12
StevenKYeah, I think that's up for discussion22:12
persiaMost of the lpia hardware seems to be more netbook-like.22:12
loolNo, I think MID is orthogonal22:12
ogra_well, we still have spare slots on the schedule22:13
davidmthey are filling up fast22:14
loolWill the alternate CD build?  I guess so, I think it's built on the buildds right?22:15
ogra_yep22:15
ogra_wasnt a1 alternate released ?22:15
* ogra_ wasnt near his mail the last hours22:15
loolIt was22:16
loolI even ran it on Q1U :)22:16
ogra_ah :)22:16
loolAnd noticed issues with the kernel config22:16
StevenKlool: The alternate doesn't touch the livefs builder?22:16
ogra_well, its A122:16
ogra_StevenK, it doesnt use a livefs22:17
loolStevenK: I don't think so; I think it's just pure cdimage logic?22:17
NCommanderStevenK, alternates are pure ubuntu-cdimage, they don't need to execute the binaries to build the image22:17
ogra_why should it22:17
* NCommander has generated ia64 images on amd6422:17
ogra_its plain shell22:17
NCommanderand superglue :-P22:17
loolApart of that armel was lagging pretty heavily for A1; there are some toolchain issues22:17
ogra_running on antimony only22:17
loolhttp://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1015222:18
MootBotLINK received:  http://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1015222:18
ubottusourceware.org bug 10152 in ld "[2.20 regression] ld segfault linking the kernel" [Normal,New]22:18
loolhttp://gcc.gnu.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=4013322:18
MootBotLINK received:  http://gcc.gnu.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=4013322:18
loolhttp://gcc.gnu.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=4013422:18
MootBotLINK received:  http://gcc.gnu.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=4013422:18
ubottugcc.gnu.org bug 40133 in libstdc++ "exception propagation support not enabled in libstdc++ 4.4 on {armeabi,hppa}-linux" [Enhancement,Unconfirmed]22:18
ubottugcc.gnu.org bug 40134 in target "symbols not resolved when building shared libraries (link with -lgcc_s -lgcc?)" [Normal,Unconfirmed]22:18
ogra_they are akll fixed22:18
StevenKlool: Right22:18
loolShould be dealt with upstream or by ARM22:18
loologra_: Hmm?22:18
ogra_linux is building since hours22:18
NCommanderWe have a good number of packages failing because of the gcc #4013322:18
ogra_binutils was uploaded yesterday22:18
NCommanderQT and KDE are hosed, and I have yet to find a way to get Qt short of downgrading the toolchain22:19
loolWeird that the upstream bug is still open22:19
loolNCommander: -lgcc didn't work?22:19
ogra_doko rolled back one change22:19
loologra_: Ok, that's only linux though; the other stand?22:19
ogra_the binutils on the builders will work for qt22:19
ogra_libstdc++ is fixed on the buildds too22:20
ogra_i doubt we need to monitor libstdc++ or ld atm22:20
loolHmm ok, great22:20
NCommanderlool, I don't think the LDFLAGS I set on the commandline made it to the bits that FTBFS22:21
ogra_not sure about the last one22:21
NCommanderlool, Qt uses a non-standardized build system, so its a lot of cloak and danger with really long build times22:21
StevenKIt isn't cmake?22:21
NCommanderStevenK, its qmake with some special bits22:22
StevenKOh, yuck22:22
NCommanderKDE is mostly cmake, Qt is its own system22:22
NCommanderAnd reconfiguring causes the package to autoclean22:22
* StevenK feels his stomach churn22:22
NCommandereven with ccache, the build process takes the better part of a day22:22
StevenKWell, it is all complicated C++22:22
NCommanderyeah22:23
loolSo it's fixed anyway, right?22:23
ogra_well, oo.o and linux should be done soon22:23
loolOnce the toolchain is built we give back, and voila22:23
NCommanderlool, I may like pain, but even this is pushing it for me22:23
NCommanderlool, oh, yeah, that should do it in theory22:23
ogra_so you have builders available to throw stuff on them22:23
* NCommander suspects Qt will ICE the compiler to spit me.22:23
loolAnything else we want to discuss today?22:23
StevenKHah22:23
loolShall we have meetings in the next two weeks22:23
ogra_we should do irc imho22:23
loolI'm tempted to cancel during UDS for one22:24
GrueMasterLittle light reading before Barcelona:  http://science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/05/14/155624422:24
ogra_though the time is inconvenient22:24
NCommanderGrueMaster, yeah, I saw that22:24
NCommanderlool, I think we could probably skit by without a UDS one, but we should kepe next weeks for the sake of the community22:24
loolThe time is inconvenient, we'll have other stuff to do, be tired, and most of us will be over there22:24
loolNCommander: sold for me22:24
davidmI think we need to annmounce a skip until June IMHO we will be busy and tired for sure.22:25
* StevenK looks up what time it is in Europe22:25
ogra_11pm22:25
StevenKUgh. Yes, skip it22:26
NCommanderso I'll annouce no meeting until June22:27
NCommander[action] NCommander to annouce no meetings until June22:28
MootBotACTION received:  NCommander to annouce no meetings until June22:28
ogra_no, announce the skip22:28
StevenKAt least give a date: June 4/522:28
NCommanderOh, no, I indeed to22:28
NCommanderThe action just so I remember to note it22:28
loolanything else to cover?22:28
NCommanderlpia, arm, meeting skip22:28
NCommanderoh22:29
NCommanderHow'd we do for A1 w.r.t. to image testing?22:29
NCommander(what works, what doesn't?)22:29
ogra_we dont have any22:29
NCommanderI know ARM is broken, and lpia live is22:29
NCommanderogra, not even UNR?22:29
ogra_for the official set at least22:29
ogra_no live images possible22:29
loolkernel is broken22:29
ogra_all our images are live22:29
loolwe have images :)22:30
loolthey just... don't work :)22:30
GrueMasterDo we have images yet for LSB testing?22:30
ogra_none we do officially22:30
StevenKWe didn't make A1 for UNR?22:30
NCommanderUgh22:30
loolNo, but there was no live image in A1 at all22:30
ogra_there is alternate armel, lpia ...22:30
loolarmel really?22:30
ogra_but not the ones we support22:30
NCommanderlool, I'm actually not suprised alternate armel built22:30
StevenKGrueMaster: We have no images at all, it appears22:30
ogra_no idea, i honestly didnt check22:31
GrueMasterk22:31
loolIt did not22:31
NCommanderI'm actually suprised UNR failed to build.22:31
lool*I* checked22:31
loolNCommander: UNR *built*22:31
ogra_but if uilt, armel might too22:31
loolit doesn't work22:31
playya_anyone has a device with a GSM chip? i want to create a freesmartphone.org team, but i don't have a device to test it. only my freerunner :(22:31
NCommanderoh22:31
StevenKBleh.22:31
NCommanderplayya_, yeah, I got one, but its .... *bleck*22:31
NCommanderplayya_, but this is more ontopic for #ubuntu-mobile vs this meeting.22:32
loolLet me recap: lpia livefs broken => no MID; armel linux FTBFS => no armel live; UNR/i386 built, but doesn't work as live support is broken in kernel; alternate lpia built and has some issues22:32
StevenKOh! Right, UNR being broken isn't actually our fault22:32
loolOh and no armel alternate for the same reason22:32
* ogra_ sighs, gnome-shell really puts that machine under to much load, half of my typing is swallowed22:32
StevenKogra_: So that sentence was twice the number of keystrokes? :-P22:33
ogra_StevenK, heh, yeah, took me a while22:33
ogra_but gnome-shell looks cool at least ... just to blue22:33
* persia points at the nice handy #ubuntu-mobile for chatting22:33
NCommanderAt the risk of showing my ignorance, but what is gnome-shell?22:33
* NCommander fires a back on topic cannon22:34
ogra_the future of gnome22:34
NCommander[topic] Specification Review22:34
MootBotNew Topic:  Specification Review22:34
NCommanderDo we have any specs we want to discuss pre-UDS?22:34
davidmI don't know of any22:35
NCommanderOk22:35
NCommander[topic] Open Discussion22:35
MootBotNew Topic:  Open Discussion22:35
ogra_we had that 5min ago :)22:35
NCommanderFair enogh22:35
NCommander[topic] Any Other Business22:35
MootBotNew Topic:  Any Other Business22:35
NCommanderGoing Once.22:35
NCommanderGoing Twice.22:36
NCommanderGoing Three times.22:36
NCommander#endmeeting22:36
MootBotMeeting finished at 16:36.22:36
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