[14:35] <ricaxe>      /msg nickserv register <your-password> <your-email>
[14:35] <ricaxe>      /msg nickserv register <0pt1m15ta> <ricaxexl@sapo.pt>
[14:36] <persia> ricaxe, You might want to change your password
[14:36] <ricaxe> ya
[14:36] <ricaxe> .:D
[14:36] <ricaxe> sorye
[14:36] <ricaxe> i dont work with irc long time ago ...
[14:42] <ricaxe> i was trying to joint to some team of ubuntu art work
[15:11] <persia> So, who's here for the Java meeting?
[15:11] <ttx> o/
[15:12] <persia> I see we again have the attention of the plurality of the channel :)
[15:12] <persia> I completely failed to prepare for today, so the wiki is probably out of date.
[15:12] <ttx> Still seems valid to me :)
[15:12] <persia> agenda is, as usual, at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JavaTeam/Meeting
[15:12] <persia> says next meeting is 30th April :)
[15:12] <ttx> yeah, right, but time is such a fuzzy dimension...
[15:12] <persia> Roadmap needs a cleanup.  I propose we do another big call for participants, and modify the future roadmap as a result.
[15:12] <ttx> yes.
[15:12] <persia> OK.  I'll send out such an email.
[15:12] <persia> Anyway robilad, slytherin, and ludovicc aren't here.  I was (again) useless.
[15:12] <persia> ttx, Did you make any progress?  I saw the post about Contents.
[15:13] <ttx> I proposed a training session for June
[15:13] <ttx> didn't make the cut for May
[15:13] <persia> That should still give us a bit of time.
[15:13] <persia> Next up: Karmic Specs
[15:13] <persia> I suggest we probably want to merge that into the Roadmap planning.
[15:13] <ttx> yes, that's linked to it
[15:13] <persia> OK.  Next up is other business.
[15:13] <ttx> I have two Java-related UDS sessions / blueprints
[15:14] <persia> Which ones?
[15:14] <ttx> One about refactoring the giant eucalyptus-javadepos package into proper separate packages
[15:14] <ttx> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/server-karmic-euca-javadeps-refactoring
[15:14] <ttx> the other one about how to reduce the number of dependencies needing to move to main if we want eucalyptus in main
[15:14] <ttx> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/server-karmic-eucalyptus-in-main
[15:14] <ttx> In both cases they are of interest to Java packagers
[15:14] <ScottK> How closely does Ubuntu Java work with Debian?
[15:15] <ttx> ScottK: very closely. For example they work on packaging Spring and asked us for testing
[15:15] <persia> ScottK, Very.  In fact, we try to do nothing :)
[15:15] <ScottK> Excellent.
[15:15] <ttx> unfortunately I failed in getting Debian-Java guys sponsored for UDS
[15:15] <persia> Well, we do a fair bit of experimentation with OpenJDK, but lots of that is in close coordination with pkg-java.
[15:15] <persia> We used to have some pkg-java people come to the meetings, but one went MIA, and the other got busy with other stuff.
[15:16] <ttx> persia: I don't think we have other Java-oriented sessions at UDS ?
[15:19] <persia> I don't think so.  There's usually one with Sun folk if they attend (at least for the past three).  Would be on the foundations track.
[15:19] <ttx> doublechecking
[15:19] <ttx> hhhm no. We could do an adhoc one if we can identify Java-oriented people on site
[15:20] <ttx> there is the Eclipse talk
[15:20] <persia> Oh goody.  That's a sore point that needs fixing.
[15:20] <persia> (although things like SWT are oddly stuck for a number of packages)
[15:20] <ttx> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/foundations-karmic-eclipse-update
[15:20] <ttx> persia: not "oddly", "Javaly"
[15:22]  * ttx checks if he can make this one
[15:22] <persia> ttx, No, oddly.  See, there's this embedded SWT in eclipse (and also a separate SWT in the archive), and many packages decided to depend on the embedded SWT, which was split out...
[15:22] <ttx> hmm.. difficult
[15:22] <persia> Indeed.
[15:22] <persia> But soluable, even if just by supplying a versioned package.
[15:24] <persia> Anyway, I've a couple other things:
[15:24] <persia> 1) david_yu came by in #ubuntu-java earlier, and expressed a desire to help get stuff done for maven and jetty, but he's in UTC+8, and thinks this meeting happens too late.
[15:24] <persia> What do you think about moving it a few hours earlier?
[15:26] <ttx> persia: what time do you propose ?
[15:27] <persia> Hrm.  Maybe 11:00 or so?
[15:28] <ttx> I'd prefer avoiding the 1000-1200 slot if possible. Anything 0600-1000 1200-1700 is ok for me though
[15:30] <persia> I'd be happy with 9:00, and suspect it would work for +8.  That mostly excludes the americas though.
[15:31] <ttx> let's try it... it would work for Onkar as well
[15:31] <persia> Sounds good.
[15:32] <persia> Next up; meeting dates.  I'd prefer to skip the meeting during UDS, and I'd rather not have a big organisational meeting and then a two week gap, so I'd rather to the big call for people for th 4th of June.
[15:32] <persia> Do you expect there's enough to discuss that we ought have one next week?
[15:32] <ttx> ok
[15:34] <ttx> persia: probably not
[15:34] <ttx> I'll echo the June 4th call on my blog
[15:34] <ttx> (when sent)
[15:34] <persia> OK.  I'll try to get the mail out this weekend.
[15:34] <persia> anything else?
[15:34] <ttx> no.
[15:36] <persia> meeting adjourned then :)
[21:56]  * lool waves
[21:57]  * persia wavers
[21:58]  * davidm waves
[21:58] <dyfet> waving?
[22:00] <NCommander> #startmeeting
[22:00] <MootBot> Meeting started at 16:00. The chair is NCommander.
[22:00] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[22:00] <GrueMaster> What timing.
[22:01] <ogra_> moop
[22:01] <NCommander> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2009/20090514
[22:01] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2009/20090514
[22:01] <NCommander> [topic] Action Item Review
[22:01] <MootBot> New Topic:  Action Item Review
[22:01] <lool> no roll call?
[22:02] <NCommander> lool, I've never done it before ...
[22:02]  * lool pokes plars davidm and StevenK just in case
[22:02]  * davidm ouch 
[22:02] <ogra_> heh
[22:02] <lool> paulliu
[22:02] <lool> probably bad time for him
[22:02]  * NCommander won't think lool's poke was capable of hurting people.
[22:03]  * lool loads bug urls
[22:03] <davidm> NCommander, continue please
[22:03] <NCommander> [topic] NCommander to investigate 338148
[22:03] <MootBot> New Topic:  NCommander to investigate 338148
[22:03] <NCommander> c/o
[22:04] <NCommander> [topic] GrueMaster to test newer version of Hildon Desktop to see if it resolves cat kills MID bug
[22:04] <MootBot> New Topic:  GrueMaster to test newer version of Hildon Desktop to see if it resolves cat kills MID bug
[22:04] <GrueMaster> CO
[22:04] <NCommander> [topic] NCommander and GrueMaster to debug #337809
[22:04] <MootBot> New Topic:  NCommander and GrueMaster to debug #337809
[22:04] <NCommander> co
[22:04] <NCommander> [topic] StevenK to follow up with Tim on lpia kernel configuration
[22:04] <MootBot> New Topic:  StevenK to follow up with Tim on lpia kernel configuration
[22:04] <NCommander> No StevenK ...
[22:04] <NCommander> so co
[22:04] <davidm> I'm calling him now
[22:04] <NCommander> Ok, I'll wait a minute
[22:05] <davidm> He will join in a moment
[22:05] <NCommander> k
[22:05] <davidm> or so
[22:05] <NCommander> I'll come back to when he returns
[22:05] <NCommander> [topic] Outstanding bugs of interest
[22:05] <MootBot> New Topic:  Outstanding bugs of interest
[22:05] <NCommander> There's been no progress on #299847, #338148, and #337809
[22:05] <NCommander> lool, you have some bugs for us?
[22:06]  * ogra_ notes that oo.o and linux are still building on armel
[22:06] <lool> Can't open them that fast
[22:07] <lool> I changed the references to bugs in the agenda to URLs
[22:07] <lool> NCommander: where's the list of bugs again?
[22:07] <ogra_> and in case people dont know yet, we are not able to build livecds due to lack of aufs/unionfs
[22:07] <NCommander> lool, I've been using the roadmap
[22:07] <NCommander> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Roadmap
[22:07] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Roadmap
[22:08]  * lool adds a link to roadmap on meeting page
[22:08] <ogra_> there is one
[22:08] <ogra_> at the top
[22:08] <persia> On the agenda even :)
[22:09] <lool> Oh, I didn't see it was added to the title bar, cool
[22:10] <lool> Well I don't have bugs to discuss
[22:10] <lool> But we could cover the lpia situation quickly
[22:10] <lool> So basically the toolchain was setup to target atom, which implies sse3 and ssse3, and perhaps other features
[22:11] <lool> Matthias will roll that back and go to pentium-m or i686 for now as a stop gap because the binaries don't run on the livefs builder
[22:11] <StevenK> Well, they do run, they just SIGILL :-)
[22:11] <lool> I propose we revisit this situation after UDS, when we have the occasion to discuss the fate of MID which is the only lpia image
[22:12] <lool> We don't have a session on other lpia images, but if we target pure atom we will lack a livefs, so we must know whether that's an issue
[22:12] <ogra_> wasnt there a topic to build UNR lpia ?
[22:12] <persia> I'm not sure that most of those interested in MID are also interested in lpia these days.
[22:12] <StevenK> Yeah, I think that's up for discussion
[22:12] <persia> Most of the lpia hardware seems to be more netbook-like.
[22:12] <lool> No, I think MID is orthogonal
[22:13] <ogra_> well, we still have spare slots on the schedule
[22:14] <davidm> they are filling up fast
[22:15] <lool> Will the alternate CD build?  I guess so, I think it's built on the buildds right?
[22:15] <ogra_> yep
[22:15] <ogra_> wasnt a1 alternate released ?
[22:15]  * ogra_ wasnt near his mail the last hours
[22:16] <lool> It was
[22:16] <lool> I even ran it on Q1U :)
[22:16] <ogra_> ah :)
[22:16] <lool> And noticed issues with the kernel config
[22:16] <StevenK> lool: The alternate doesn't touch the livefs builder?
[22:16] <ogra_> well, its A1
[22:17] <ogra_> StevenK, it doesnt use a livefs
[22:17] <lool> StevenK: I don't think so; I think it's just pure cdimage logic?
[22:17] <NCommander> StevenK, alternates are pure ubuntu-cdimage, they don't need to execute the binaries to build the image
[22:17] <ogra_> why should it
[22:17]  * NCommander has generated ia64 images on amd64
[22:17] <ogra_> its plain shell
[22:17] <NCommander> and superglue :-P
[22:17] <lool> Apart of that armel was lagging pretty heavily for A1; there are some toolchain issues
[22:17] <ogra_> running on antimony only
[22:18] <lool> http://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=10152
[22:18] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=10152
[22:18] <lool> http://gcc.gnu.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=40133
[22:18] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://gcc.gnu.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=40133
[22:18] <lool> http://gcc.gnu.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=40134
[22:18] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://gcc.gnu.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=40134
[22:18] <ogra_> they are akll fixed
[22:18] <StevenK> lool: Right
[22:18] <lool> Should be dealt with upstream or by ARM
[22:18] <lool> ogra_: Hmm?
[22:18] <ogra_> linux is building since hours
[22:18] <NCommander> We have a good number of packages failing because of the gcc #40133
[22:18] <ogra_> binutils was uploaded yesterday
[22:19] <NCommander> QT and KDE are hosed, and I have yet to find a way to get Qt short of downgrading the toolchain
[22:19] <lool> Weird that the upstream bug is still open
[22:19] <lool> NCommander: -lgcc didn't work?
[22:19] <ogra_> doko rolled back one change
[22:19] <lool> ogra_: Ok, that's only linux though; the other stand?
[22:19] <ogra_> the binutils on the builders will work for qt
[22:20] <ogra_> libstdc++ is fixed on the buildds too
[22:20] <ogra_> i doubt we need to monitor libstdc++ or ld atm
[22:20] <lool> Hmm ok, great
[22:21] <NCommander> lool, I don't think the LDFLAGS I set on the commandline made it to the bits that FTBFS
[22:21] <ogra_> not sure about the last one
[22:21] <NCommander> lool, Qt uses a non-standardized build system, so its a lot of cloak and danger with really long build times
[22:21] <StevenK> It isn't cmake?
[22:22] <NCommander> StevenK, its qmake with some special bits
[22:22] <StevenK> Oh, yuck
[22:22] <NCommander> KDE is mostly cmake, Qt is its own system
[22:22] <NCommander> And reconfiguring causes the package to autoclean
[22:22]  * StevenK feels his stomach churn
[22:22] <NCommander> even with ccache, the build process takes the better part of a day
[22:22] <StevenK> Well, it is all complicated C++
[22:23] <NCommander> yeah
[22:23] <lool> So it's fixed anyway, right?
[22:23] <ogra_> well, oo.o and linux should be done soon
[22:23] <lool> Once the toolchain is built we give back, and voila
[22:23] <NCommander> lool, I may like pain, but even this is pushing it for me
[22:23] <NCommander> lool, oh, yeah, that should do it in theory
[22:23] <ogra_> so you have builders available to throw stuff on them
[22:23]  * NCommander suspects Qt will ICE the compiler to spit me.
[22:23] <lool> Anything else we want to discuss today?
[22:23] <StevenK> Hah
[22:23] <lool> Shall we have meetings in the next two weeks
[22:23] <ogra_> we should do irc imho
[22:24] <lool> I'm tempted to cancel during UDS for one
[22:24] <GrueMaster> Little light reading before Barcelona:  http://science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/05/14/1556244
[22:24] <ogra_> though the time is inconvenient
[22:24] <NCommander> GrueMaster, yeah, I saw that
[22:24] <NCommander> lool, I think we could probably skit by without a UDS one, but we should kepe next weeks for the sake of the community
[22:24] <lool> The time is inconvenient, we'll have other stuff to do, be tired, and most of us will be over there
[22:24] <lool> NCommander: sold for me
[22:25] <davidm> I think we need to annmounce a skip until June IMHO we will be busy and tired for sure.
[22:25]  * StevenK looks up what time it is in Europe
[22:25] <ogra_> 11pm
[22:26] <StevenK> Ugh. Yes, skip it
[22:27] <NCommander> so I'll annouce no meeting until June
[22:28] <NCommander> [action] NCommander to annouce no meetings until June
[22:28] <MootBot> ACTION received:  NCommander to annouce no meetings until June
[22:28] <ogra_> no, announce the skip
[22:28] <StevenK> At least give a date: June 4/5
[22:28] <NCommander> Oh, no, I indeed to
[22:28] <NCommander> The action just so I remember to note it
[22:28] <lool> anything else to cover?
[22:28] <NCommander> lpia, arm, meeting skip
[22:29] <NCommander> oh
[22:29] <NCommander> How'd we do for A1 w.r.t. to image testing?
[22:29] <NCommander> (what works, what doesn't?)
[22:29] <ogra_> we dont have any
[22:29] <NCommander> I know ARM is broken, and lpia live is
[22:29] <NCommander> ogra, not even UNR?
[22:29] <ogra_> for the official set at least
[22:29] <ogra_> no live images possible
[22:29] <lool> kernel is broken
[22:29] <ogra_> all our images are live
[22:30] <lool> we have images :)
[22:30] <lool> they just... don't work :)
[22:30] <GrueMaster> Do we have images yet for LSB testing?
[22:30] <ogra_> none we do officially
[22:30] <StevenK> We didn't make A1 for UNR?
[22:30] <NCommander> Ugh
[22:30] <lool> No, but there was no live image in A1 at all
[22:30] <ogra_> there is alternate armel, lpia ...
[22:30] <lool> armel really?
[22:30] <ogra_> but not the ones we support
[22:30] <NCommander> lool, I'm actually not suprised alternate armel built
[22:30] <StevenK> GrueMaster: We have no images at all, it appears
[22:31] <ogra_> no idea, i honestly didnt check
[22:31] <GrueMaster> k
[22:31] <lool> It did not
[22:31] <NCommander> I'm actually suprised UNR failed to build.
[22:31] <lool> *I* checked
[22:31] <lool> NCommander: UNR *built*
[22:31] <ogra_> but if uilt, armel might too
[22:31] <lool> it doesn't work
[22:31] <playya_> anyone has a device with a GSM chip? i want to create a freesmartphone.org team, but i don't have a device to test it. only my freerunner :(
[22:31] <NCommander> oh
[22:31] <StevenK> Bleh.
[22:31] <NCommander> playya_, yeah, I got one, but its .... *bleck*
[22:32] <NCommander> playya_, but this is more ontopic for #ubuntu-mobile vs this meeting.
[22:32] <lool> Let me recap: lpia livefs broken => no MID; armel linux FTBFS => no armel live; UNR/i386 built, but doesn't work as live support is broken in kernel; alternate lpia built and has some issues
[22:32] <StevenK> Oh! Right, UNR being broken isn't actually our fault
[22:32] <lool> Oh and no armel alternate for the same reason
[22:32]  * ogra_ sighs, gnome-shell really puts that machine under to much load, half of my typing is swallowed
[22:33] <StevenK> ogra_: So that sentence was twice the number of keystrokes? :-P
[22:33] <ogra_> StevenK, heh, yeah, took me a while
[22:33] <ogra_> but gnome-shell looks cool at least ... just to blue
[22:33]  * persia points at the nice handy #ubuntu-mobile for chatting
[22:33] <NCommander> At the risk of showing my ignorance, but what is gnome-shell?
[22:34]  * NCommander fires a back on topic cannon
[22:34] <ogra_> the future of gnome
[22:34] <NCommander> [topic] Specification Review
[22:34] <MootBot> New Topic:  Specification Review
[22:34] <NCommander> Do we have any specs we want to discuss pre-UDS?
[22:35] <davidm> I don't know of any
[22:35] <NCommander> Ok
[22:35] <NCommander> [topic] Open Discussion
[22:35] <MootBot> New Topic:  Open Discussion
[22:35] <ogra_> we had that 5min ago :)
[22:35] <NCommander> Fair enogh
[22:35] <NCommander> [topic] Any Other Business
[22:35] <MootBot> New Topic:  Any Other Business
[22:35] <NCommander> Going Once.
[22:36] <NCommander> Going Twice.
[22:36] <NCommander> Going Three times.
[22:36] <NCommander> #endmeeting
[22:36] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 16:36.