[12:44]  * MacSlow -> lunch
[15:00] <kenvandine> tedg: one of the foresight devs is writing a xfce panel plugin for the indicator :)
[15:01] <tedg> kenvandine: Oh, cool.  Using the listener interface or the libindicator in trunk?
[15:01] <kenvandine> not sure
[15:01] <kenvandine> he just told me he started it
[15:01] <kenvandine> he maintains the xfce edition 
[15:02] <kenvandine> should i point him at trunk?
[15:02] <tedg> kenvandine: Ah, okay.  If you get a chance, push towards libindicator.
[15:02] <tedg> Yeah, it makes it so that everything isn't hard coded.
[15:02] <tedg> .pc fies and the such instead of values in C files.
[15:03] <tedg> Version 2 clean up type stuff :)
[15:08] <kenvandine> :)
[15:09] <kenvandine> ok, he's using trunk
[15:27] <topyli> and this is why you gotta love foresight. always hip with the latest niceties :)
[22:03] <DGMurdockIII> hi
[22:05] <SiDi> hi
[22:05] <maco> DGMurdockIII, note that i pointed you here with "if you want to help" before you repeat the same as in -motu
[22:06] <ScottK> maco: User feedback is help.
[22:06] <DGMurdockIII> is there going to be a control pantel like windows has
[22:06] <maco> ScottK, well, there's a difference between the constructive sort that points out specific areas of weakness and a general "this sucks"
[22:06] <maco> DGMurdockIII, that has existed for years
[22:07] <maco> edit the menu. GNOME Control Center is available in there (installed by default) already
[22:07] <maco> though i'd quite like to see it become a default menu option
[22:07] <ScottK> maco: Sure.  It's a fine line.  This was described as an experiment, so 'experiment failed' is a possible outcome.
[22:07]  * SiDi personally thinks control panels get quickly overcrowded and unusable
[22:07] <DGMurdockIII> yes me to but id like to see a ubuntu one with is made for ubuntu
[22:08] <maco> SiDi, and the system -> preferences menu doesn't? it's too tall for a 1280x800 screen
[22:08] <maco> DGMurdockIII, why?
[22:08] <DGMurdockIII> that why
[22:08] <maco> i'd think that'd just make it harder when you switch distros, because then things would move around instead of being in their expected GNOMEy place
[22:09] <ScottK> maco: In many ways the look and feel of Ubuntu's Gnome departs from upstream, so I think that horse left the barn a long time ago.
[22:09] <SiDi> maco: i'm under XFCE, cant say :)
[22:09] <maco> the icon theme's different, yes, but what else?
[22:09] <DGMurdockIII> there all theses littel thinks you guys could do that could make the expernise better
[22:10] <maco> i know fedora & ubuntu disagree on where the terminal goes in the applications menu (accessories v. utilities), but not much else i've noticed
[22:10] <DGMurdockIII> and i had a hell of a time getting my sound to work througt HDMI
[22:10] <SiDi> DGMurdockIII: it doesnt have much to do with control panels though.
[22:10] <maco> or likely with the GUI
[22:11] <DGMurdockIII> yeah i now
[22:11] <SiDi> When you test a new OS, you should be very aware that the design and UI are different, and not let yourself be influenced by your habits. If you weren't used to windows's control panel, you'd probably not want to use one ;
[22:11] <maco> the audio stack is a pain --> well known. one of the audio people rants about it to me nearly daily :)
[22:12] <DGMurdockIII> why dont you guy just rewrite the audio statck if it that bad
[22:12] <maco> SiDi, I disagree. Windows, OSX, and KDE all have some sort of control panel
[22:12] <maco> because it'll take probably 5 years just to get current stuff working, without adding support for new hardware produced in that time
[22:13] <ScottK> DGMurdockIII: That takes a different expertise than U/I work.
[22:13] <lamalex> DGMurdockIII: it's in the process of happening 
[22:13] <lamalex> sort of
[22:13] <dtchen> no, we're tacking on layers like patchwork. anyhow, none of this has to do with this channel, so please stay on-topic.
[22:14] <maco> yeah, the bottom layer's being fixed as people realize high-level bandaids dont cut it. fixing the bottom layer one which *other* high level bandaids depend then breaks those bandaids so you get net *more* breakage as you try to fix things
[22:14] <DGMurdockIII> what do you guys think about doing somthing like this for system menu http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=222546
[22:14] <SiDi> maco: and i personally am so unhappy with those messy panels with tons of options :)
[22:15] <ScottK> Personally I'm a fan of options, but then I use KDE.
[22:15] <maco> SiDi, i used it as a backup (when i used gnome). things i normally use go in preferences and the rest of the stuff goes in the control panel
[22:15] <ScottK> I'd rather be the one that determines how my computer will best work for me.
[22:16]  * maco still avoids looking in the Settings menu in KDE apps unless really necessary
[22:16] <SiDi> when i was still in GNOME i was just firing out the menu entries i didn't need. never used the panel
[22:16] <SiDi> maco: same :) it gets me totally lost
[22:17] <ScottK> maco: Of course.  Why would you be looking at setting unless you wanted to change something?
[22:18] <maco> ScottK, no no, its "unless you really REALLY need to change something"
[22:18] <ScottK> Heh.
[22:18] <maco> if it's just "want" i'll generally learn to deal with the default to avoid widget overload (which is, thankfully, less prevalent in kde4 than it was in kde3)
[22:21] <maco> DGMurdockIII, so anyway you're not happy with notify-osd. other than "actions" "colors" and "placement" (raised often) what are things about it that you think need changing?
[22:23] <DGMurdockIII> when it pops up the computer memory spiks
[22:26] <DGMurdockIII> i ment this for the control panel like http://www.frettts-freeware.de/software/OS/ubuntu-screens/ubuntu-controlcenter.png
[22:27] <lamalex> thats the gnome control panel
[22:29] <DGMurdockIII> ye
[22:29] <DGMurdockIII> i now
[22:29] <DGMurdockIII> yes i now but now take a look at this http://steve-o.org/files/images/a/ubuntu-control-center.png
[22:29] <DGMurdockIII> see the difference
[22:29] <DGMurdockIII> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e1/Yast.png
[22:30] <DGMurdockIII> and open suse is even a littel better than the defult one
[22:30] <GreySim_> Both of the last two seem to lack search, which I'm starting to really enjoy, but in an ideal setup, probably wouldn't be needed.
[22:32] <lamalex> theyre all kind of crappy honestly
[22:32] <lamalex> those style interfaces get cluttered so quickly
[22:32] <lamalex> and imo the standard gnome one is the best
[22:32] <lamalex> the ubuntu-one is ok, but it only has for categories, it wont scale to a real environment
[22:33] <DGMurdockIII> vbut you can improve i now it not perfect
[22:34] <DGMurdockIII> just lioke the gnome one is not perfect
[22:35] <DGMurdockIII> i thnk windows 7 control panel is actally a good way to do it i mean the way they have layed out there control panel
[22:35] <lamalex> point out specific failings, i can't think of a way to improve them, but again because im of the disposition that those style interfaces are always bad
[22:35] <lamalex> and dont assume familiarity with windows, i have no idea what windows control center looks like
[22:37] <DGMurdockIII> this is not what control pannel look like in wwindows 7 but when you install ubuntu you shold have somthing like this come up http://www.windows7buzz.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/windows7-m3-control-panel.png
[22:38] <DGMurdockIII> http://4sysops.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/windows7controlpanel.png
[22:38] <DGMurdockIII> there is the windows 7 control panel
[22:40] <DGMurdockIII> im not say you copy it exzaty it the way you see on the picture but it a start
[22:42] <DGMurdockIII> what is the perpose of the top bar in gnome
[22:42] <DGMurdockIII> i ment bottom bar
[22:53] <topyli> DGMurdockIII: i have no idea, except that you can use the corners for something useful if you have a panel there :/
[22:53] <topyli> i always remove the panel
[22:54] <DGMurdockIII> ok
[22:54] <topyli> there's the window list but it might as well be in the top panel, lots of empty space there for it
[22:56] <SiDi> DGMurdockIII: it's not because you're used to the windows way that it's the most relevant one. And windows tend to be the worst when it comes to UI ergonomy / usability.
[23:51] <SiDi> night people