[22:24] <gdong> hey guys
[22:25] <gdong> you think it's possible to use this software to develop apps on ubuntu arm? http://www.qtsoftware.com/
[22:25] <persia> gdong, Yes, but you'll want to check the version carefully.  I don't know that we're quite in sync with upstream.
[22:26] <persia> So, depending on which release of Ubuntu you use, you may find yourself a bit out of date (e.g. QT4.5 only came out last week, but the latest release of Ubuntu has an earlier version)
[22:27] <persia> If you dare to run the release-under-development, this is less true, but that's likely to break many times as it nears release.
[22:27] <gdong> i'm planning to use the latest version of ubuntu, 9.04, arm version running on a touch book
[22:28] <gdong> so you're saying the older version of QT that shipped with the latest ubuntu should work fine on ubuntu arm on the touchbook?
[22:28] <persia> I believe QT works for ARM, although I haven't tested it myself.
[22:29] <persia> NCommander, You were fiddling with the KDE stuff: should QT just work on ARM in jaunty?
[22:29] <NCommander> persia, toolchain still hosed last I checked
[22:29] <NCommander> I tried cooking off a patch to work around it, but no success, and my ARM board is packed up for UDS so I'm not going to be able to work on it
[22:30] <persia> NCommander, for jaunty?
[22:30] <NCommander> jaunty?
[22:30] <NCommander> Yeah, its only broken on Karmic
[22:30] <persia> So for jaunty, one should just be able to code against jaunty's QT, and all is golden?
[22:31] <NCommander> Yeah, but you'll also want to test your code on non-x86 architectures bceause Qt does some funny stuff with qreals on ARM
[22:31] <persia> gdong, There's your answer :)
[22:31] <gdong> thank you =]
[22:31] <gdong> what's qreal?
[22:32] <NCommander> gdong, a Qt variable time for real numbers
[22:32] <NCommander> its typedef's for double on non-ARM architectures, but its float on ARM
[22:32] <NCommander> which can cause funny problems if your doing odd math operations
[22:32] <gdong> i see
[22:33] <Stskeeps> NCommander: OT, before i continue messing up packages, how do you people deal with native packaging and ubuntu-specific changes? as to have a diff.gz with the native package from debian as orig? <DEBIANVERSION>-<UBUNTUVERSION>?
[22:34] <gdong> so you're saying i can develop on windows for the arm based touchbook, but test it on the actual device to ensure that I don't have problems caused by qreal issues on arm?
[22:35] <NCommander> gdong, I'm not saying anything. I'm just saying that there can be some oddities when building on ARM due to typedefs magic.
[22:35] <persia> Stskeeps, When it's native from Debian, we keep it native, and grumble about it because it makes merging hard.
[22:36] <Stskeeps> interesting
[22:36] <Stskeeps> maemo has some kind of fetish with debian native packages
[22:37] <persia> Stskeeps, Indeed.  It's easier to track things that way when one is doing both upstream and packaging.
[22:37] <persia> And it reduces test cycles if one doesn't have a clean workflow.
[22:37] <persia> Or if one wants to share each daily build to testers, etc.
[22:38] <persia> Either one ends up with hassles in balancing debian/changelog vs. changelog, or duplication, or some such messiness.
[22:39] <persia> Personally, I think the best way to handle those is to have simple packaging wrapper around upstream (with no patches), and have a deployment script that just generates a new 1-entry debian/changelog every time it's built.
[22:39] <persia> Then once one does a proper release, one just grabs the orig.tar.gz only from the last source build, and merges that into the mainstream debian package, adding a single additional changelog entry "New Upstream Version"
[22:40] <persia> Although such a workflow as ideal is probably obviously biased towards the viewpoint of a distributor, rather than a core developer.
[22:42] <Stskeeps> *nod*
[22:46] <gdong> based on this url, http://www.qtsoftware.com/products/platform/qt-for-embedded-linux "Qt builds on the standard API for embedded Linux devices with its own compact window system. Qt-based applications write directly to the Linux framebuffer, eliminating the need for the X11 windowing system."
[22:46] <gdong> it seems like i can run ubuntu without the x server, and let qt provide a gui?
[22:47] <persia> gdong, Err, kinda.
[22:47] <persia> I don't think that Ubuntu currently ships the QT Embedded framebuffer driver, although I could be wrong.
[22:47] <persia> Also, most stuff in Ubuntu does depend on X, so unless you're planning a very significant variation from the base, you'd want to use X.
[22:48] <gdong> persia, most of the software in ubuntu i dont' really need
[22:48] <gdong> i'm planning to create a very specialized application to run on the arm based touchbook
[22:49] <gdong> so i'm thinking even debian for arm, with no X server, running QT handling the gui and application would be sufficient
[22:49] <persia> gdong, If you're doing a specialised kiosk application, then you're fine.
[22:50] <gdong> i actually need to strip out a lot of things from ubuntu, and to lock down some user priviledges, but i'm just wondering if the proposed setup would work
[22:50] <persia> Some people use Ubuntu as a base (like that), some want to derive or integrate somewhat, and some want to have their stuff work by default.
[22:50] <persia> Depending where along that axis any project falls determines how much it must be bound by the standard practices used in Ubuntu :)
[22:50] <persia> It ought to work, but it's a good deal of work.
[22:51] <gdong> which part ought to be a lot of work?
[22:52] <persia> Stripping stuff out, making sure that you stub any expected interfaces for the stuff you stripped, making sure the QT framebuffer interface works well, and then building your kiosk environment above that.
[22:53] <persia> Given the way various bits work, I'd recommend you don't try to strip to less than ubuntu-minimal: once you get lower than that, you start needing to worry about the configure flags for each application.
[22:54] <gdong> hm
[22:55] <gdong> since i'm planning to barely use the existing software from a ubuntu install, would it be in my best interest to find a very light weight distro of linux that supports ARM, and then have QT write to the frame buffer and build my application on top of that?
[22:56] <gdong> i still require services such as 3g connectivity, wifi, bluetooth, micro sd card, the ability to add peripherals such as usb keys