[00:05] <BUGabundo> ienorand: I made 4 alias, just in case
[00:05] <BUGabundo> eheh
[03:45] <slipttees_> hi guys
[03:46] <slipttees_> ubuntu develop very fast and unstable versions :S
[03:46] <slipttees_> please relesead newest version in 1 year later
[03:46] <slipttees_> :S
[03:50] <ienorand> slipttees_: This decision is very much up to Mr Shuttleworth, and he seems to want to stick with 6-months, also, if you want stable, use LTS.
[03:51] <slipttees_> 8.04 sucks :-S
[03:51] <slipttees_> 6.06 the best
[03:51] <slipttees_> after this, only crap versions :S
[03:53] <slipttees_> ubuntu 9.12, 10.12, 11.12,
[03:53] <slipttees_> :-)
[03:54] <bazhang> !ot > slipttees_
[04:02] <yoasif> hows karmic so far, any big changes? planning on installing soon
[04:06] <ienorand> yoasif: some breakage here and there... I keep hearing bad things about kde and ati, so far a pretty smooth ride for me on nvidia, gnome, and a bit of caution when it comes to new updates...
[04:52] <joetheodd> Does anyone know when restricted modules will be available for the 2.6.30 kernels?
[04:52] <joetheodd> I'm stuck using 2.6.28 right now because my wifi card uses a restricted driver (broadcom)
[06:22] <Sarvatt> joetheodd: just sudo apt-get install bcmwl-kernel-source for broadcom's drivers on karmic if b43 doesnt work for some reason
[10:57] <lazka> 2.6.30-rc doesn't work with the nvidia driver (180-51 from PPA) for me. Do I need a patch?
[10:58] <lazka> DKMS is building fine.. but it doesn't come up
[10:58] <lazka> :/
[10:59] <idorock> lazka: u mean like a nicotine patch?
[11:00] <lazka> idorock, I just wnated to know if there are known problems with this combination.. if not I will investigate further myself.
[11:01] <lazka> but the source seems to have proper 2.6.30 ifdefs..
[11:01] <lazka> ok
[11:57] <shadeslayer> will hal be completely removed in karmic or just a part of it will be removed?
[12:52] <Persi> hi guys, wanna try something special, will Koala run on par with say debian testing?
[12:52] <acicula> run on par?
[12:53] <Persi> and how to upgrade seamlessly? just add Koala repos?
[12:53] <Persi> in terms of stability
[12:53] <rski> Persi: you can't compare then
[12:53] <Persi> I don`t use special features
[12:53] <acicula> upgrade from debian to ubuntu?
[12:53] <rski> unles you test both on same hardware
[12:53] <acicula> err
[12:53] <Persi> nono
[12:53] <Persi> im on jaunty
[12:53] <acicula> update-manager -d
[12:53] <Persi> thx
[12:54] <Persi> how do I roll it back if it goes awry?
[12:54] <acicula> you cant
[12:54] <Persi> :D
[12:54] <Persi> cool
[12:54] <acicula> also no seamless upgrade
[12:54] <acicula> well it will upgrade
[12:54] <acicula> but stuff will break ;)
[12:54] <dns53> they have not had upgrades from debian since breezy
[12:54] <Persi> :)) which stuff usually breaks first?
[12:55] <Persi> Im not on debian!
[12:55] <Persi> I`m on jaunty
[12:55] <Persi> ran debian testing once and it never broke
[12:55] <dns53> the kernel and x never work
[12:55] <Persi> and I was on intrepid very early
[12:55] <Persi> I have .30rc5 kernel and it works
[12:56] <Persi> or you messed up with kernel for koala and its not ready yet?
[12:56] <Persi> well seems to be poor reward for a lot of risk then anyways
[12:56] <Persi> is there anything special besides cloud capabilities?
[12:57] <acicula> newer kernel/x/gcc/intel driver
[12:58] <acicula> as far as risk, it's alpha
[12:58] <dns53> eucalyptus is in jaunty
[12:58] <Persi> I have them from swap squad - not crack pushers but the related bunch
[12:58] <Persi> and xfce doesnt even have notifications so I guess not that much to expect
[12:58] <Persi> not even new color
[12:59] <acicula> aafaik alpha 1 is just a package refresh
[12:59] <acicula> mostly anyway
[12:59] <Persi> I see, thanks
[13:00] <Persi> by x you mean xorg?
[13:00] <acicula> off course
[13:00] <Persi> it comes with a driver I think, right?
[13:00] <acicula> off course
[13:00] <Persi> :) thanks
[13:00] <Persi> so I have them from daily builds anyway
[13:00] <acicula> if you want to try karmic, grab the live cd, use a virtual machine or make an usb stick, that way you can experiment easy enough
[13:01] <acicula> i have an external usb disk with a few different installations too, very practical and nearly as fast as my laptop hd
[13:01] <Persi> yeah you`re right, having unetbootin I shouldnt have even asked in the 1st place
[13:02] <Persi> but you listed the key changes and I`m not using gcc so with drivers, kernel, and firefox up to date I feel like I am upgraded enough :D
[13:02] <Persi> thank you
[13:02] <acicula> well i'm sure my list is not exaustive
[13:02] <acicula> exhaustive?
[13:03] <Persi> yeah with h
[13:03] <Persi> it`s just that I became obsessed with updates after seeing Minefield literally kicking ass
[13:03] <Persi> while being stable and working with adblocker
[13:04] <Persi> and also latest drivers improving performance, although I think it got back to usiing 50% of CPU with latest update
[13:06] <Persi> btw are you guys among the koala devs?
[13:06] <Persi> what will you do with intel video problems?
[13:06] <acicula> i'm not a dev
[13:07] <Persi> then why hang out here? dedicated tester?
[13:07] <acicula> though it seems with the newer intel driver things are improving
[13:07] <Persi> it really is, cpu usage has dropped to 5% with some update
[13:08] <Persi> but then got back to 50 for some reason :(
[13:08] <acicula> it's a support channel for people running karmic
[13:08] <Persi> I know but you gotta have some reasons to run alpha and not being a dev
[13:08] <Persi> but you seem to run it from flash so you are probably just curious
[13:09] <acicula> no main install for me
[13:09] <acicula> because of driver support
[13:10] <Persi> isnt it all in kernel?
[13:10]  * Twigathy is running alpha and not a dev because he wants to check NFS root doesn't break :)
[13:10] <Persi> and I didnt even notice the update to rc5 in terms of problems
[13:10] <Persi> I don`t even know what is NFS :)
[13:11] <acicula> No it's not all in the kernel
[13:11] <Persi> and what you have? cutting edge wifi? g4 maybe?
[13:11] <acicula> intel gma4500
[13:11] <Persi> i.e. wimax, although I think it is supported already
[13:12] <acicula> so not so cutting edge
[13:12] <Twigathy> Persi: networked file system. Basically this machines root is actually on another machine and it gets all its files over the network :)
[13:14] <Persi> cant see any advantage, Ive tried ssh and it looked way cooler
[13:14] <Persi> with I think root capabilities on remote pc as well
[13:16] <Persi> ok I wanted to have some fun anyways so I guess Ill just try crack pushers
[13:16] <Persi> thanks for the info guys, goodbye
[13:17] <acicula> yw
[14:45] <blueyed> Anybody using RAID with Karmic? (preferably +cryptsetup+LVM)
[18:23] <dazjorz> holy sh***
[18:23]  * BUGabundo lends a trap hole to dazjorz
[18:24] <dazjorz> my sound just stopped, when it restored, I had a few hundred popups pop up, all KMess new message sounds play, of a few hours
[18:24] <dazjorz> KNotify is catching up on the sounds it had to play, the notifications it had to display
[18:24] <dazjorz> just when sound started working again :')
[18:43] <blueyed> yay, found the fix for bug 377395 - in case somebody gets bitten by it, too.
[19:28] <eagles0513875> hey guys hows karmic starting to look
[19:28] <thiebaude> eagles0513875: fairly good for me
[19:29] <eagles0513875> how can one get it granted its not released yet
[19:29] <eagles0513875> i need to see if this one nasty issue i am having after a clean install resurfaces in karmic
[19:29] <BUGabundo1> eagles0513875: either upgrading with UM
[19:30] <BUGabundo1> or livecd from dailies
[19:30] <BUGabundo1> !daily
[19:30] <thiebaude> or change your sources.list
[19:30] <eagles0513875> BUGabundo1: i have had bad experiences with that so im rather apprehensive but i guess for right nwo i would rather use the upgrade manager
[19:30] <BUGabundo1> thiebaude: NEVER CHANGE YOUR SOURCES
[19:30] <thiebaude> that's what i did
[19:30] <eagles0513875> BUGabundo1: how can i do it with the upgrade manager
[19:30] <BUGabundo1> thiebaude: me too.... but just because UM was not updated yet
[19:31] <BUGabundo1> eagles0513875: what trouble did you had?
[19:31] <thiebaude> BUGabundo1: yea, thats true
[19:31] <eagles0513875> i would be guessing though by doing that you have no way of checking what packages have changed from one release to the next
[19:31] <thiebaude> eveything just gets updated
[19:31] <eagles0513875> i always seem to end up with some pita problems that a clean install wouldnt have but i guess in this case since im on a clean install i can give it a shot
[19:32] <eagles0513875> man i had one hella time trying to get this machine online with a wired connectino
[19:32] <eagles0513875> tion
[19:32] <BUGabundo1> this system has came from devel cycle from hardy
[19:32] <eagles0513875> the default widget is borked up the backside hat to do it the old fashioned way with /etc/network/interfaces and resolv.conf it wasnt even pullingn an ip via dhcp
[19:33] <eagles0513875> ive been on kubuntu since edgy
[19:33] <thiebaude> BUGabundo1: eventually ,i will do a fresh install with the 9.10 live cd
[19:33] <eagles0513875> its come a long way
[19:33] <eagles0513875> thiebaude: dont
[19:33] <eagles0513875> i have been having one hella time with it
[19:34] <thiebaude> eagles0513875: just keep updating it until final?
[19:34] <eagles0513875> yes
[19:34] <eagles0513875> im an update fanatic
[19:34] <eagles0513875> always checking for updates as soon as i get on the pc and maybe 2 three times more
[19:34] <BUGabundo1> that's all?
[19:34] <BUGabundo1> I UM 5x a day
[19:34] <thiebaude> im having no problems at all, like 8.10 with intel, but xorg.conf is customized anyway
[19:34] <eagles0513875> how can i upgrade to karmic
[19:35] <thiebaude> sveral ways
[19:35] <eagles0513875> apachlogger mentioned earlier today they making the 8.10 x stack available in a ppa
[19:35] <thiebaude> several
[19:35] <eagles0513875> im gonna do online upgrade dont wanna waste a cd
[19:37] <BUGabundo1> eagles0513875: $ update-manager -d
[19:37] <eagles0513875> thanks
[19:37] <BUGabundo1> the usual way
[19:37] <BUGabundo1> eagles0513875: do you have an USB stick?
[19:37] <eagles0513875> says command not found O_O
[19:37] <eagles0513875> ya but has data on it atm
[19:37] <BUGabundo1> you can just get the iso and use usbcreator
[19:38] <eagles0513875> i normally use unetbootn
[19:38] <eagles0513875> bootin
[19:38] <BUGabundo1> naaa
[19:38] <BUGabundo1> usbc is better
[19:38] <thiebaude> the pidgin tabs in chat look orange now
[19:38] <eagles0513875> never really tried
[19:38] <eagles0513875> well i have another project i wanna use it for
[19:38] <eagles0513875> make a persistent install of kubuntu on it
[19:39] <eagles0513875> is the command $ update-manager -d
[19:39] <eagles0513875> cuz im getting command not found O_O
[19:39] <BUGabundo1> thiebaude: not here
[19:39] <eagles0513875> found the answer
[19:39] <thiebaude> its back to normal now, BUGabundo1
[19:39] <BUGabundo1> eagles0513875: stupid idea: don't write the '$'
[19:40] <eagles0513875> sry
[19:40] <eagles0513875> :my bad
[19:40] <eagles0513875> been studying all day for my last exam on tuesday im brain dead
[19:40] <eagles0513875> once i finish school i gotta study my ass off for my linux cert exams
[19:40] <thiebaude> eagles0513875: your good,:)
[19:41] <eagles0513875> there few things i wanna see if they occur in karmic
[19:41] <eagles0513875> for starters with the nvidia 180 driver been getting nasty freezes
[19:41] <eagles0513875> have to do a hard reset
[19:41] <eagles0513875> as well as the cursed network manager widget
[19:41] <thiebaude> eagles0513875: like x freezing?
[19:41] <eagles0513875> dunno
[19:41] <BUGabundo1> I have to prepare for LPI too
[19:41] <eagles0513875> not sure if its the nvidia driver that is in the repos or what
[19:42] <BUGabundo1> will need it to get my next job
[19:42] <eagles0513875> BUGabundo1: what level im doing 101 102
[19:42] <BUGabundo1> 101 for now
[19:42] <eagles0513875> im getting a jump on my certs
[19:42] <BUGabundo1> 1st time I went for it, I went without even studing
[19:42] <eagles0513875> you are lukcy when i did it thsi time last yr the syllabus was alot harder
[19:42] <eagles0513875> they took out x
[19:42] <BUGabundo1> not the best result
[19:42] <BUGabundo1> :(
[19:42] <eagles0513875> me neither commands raped me lol
[19:42] <eagles0513875> i did really good on apt-get and yum commands and everything else
[19:43] <eagles0513875> i have actually a rather nice book called a practical guide to commands editors and shell programming for linux
[19:45] <eagles0513875> upgrade on the way
[19:45] <eagles0513875> question
[19:45] <eagles0513875> is it ok to mix karmic repos lets say with jaunty repos
[19:46] <thiebaude> repos should be the same
[19:46] <eagles0513875> lets say there is an older version of somethign i want
[19:46] <BUGabundo1> eagles0513875: bad idea
[19:46] <eagles0513875> ok
[19:46] <BUGabundo1> but UM should take care of that
[19:46] <BUGabundo1> thiebaude: actually no... many differences by now
[19:46] <eagles0513875> one thing i would really like to see chage has to do with drivers
[19:46] <Volkodav> что за глюк не работает на клаве стрелки влево вправо
[19:47] <eagles0513875> O_O
[19:47] <thiebaude> !ru
[19:47] <Volkodav> вверх стрелка почему скриншот делает
[19:47] <eagles0513875> seeing some interesting characters in russian
[19:47] <Volkodav> как второй монитор добавил началась такая байда
[19:48] <eagles0513875> it would be nice to have the update manager poll the websites of intel nvidia and ati and have the user install them manually that way
[19:49] <BUGabundo1> !ru | Volkodav
[19:50] <Volkodav> sorry wrong window lol
[19:50] <thiebaude> lol
[19:51] <Volkodav> как второй монитор добавил началась такая байда - точнее компиз на втором
[19:51] <Volkodav> darn it
[19:51] <BUGabundo1> eheh
[19:51] <eagles0513875> it download the driver to the local machine then let the user know where the driver is and steps to install it
[19:52] <eagles0513875> thiebaude: i think the issue with the nasty freezing i have been having was the driver and being on 4.2.3 even i had with desktop effects random plasma and kwin crashes
[19:52] <eagles0513875> omfg think  i need to change the name server im using
[19:52] <eagles0513875> :(
[19:52] <BUGabundo1> driver?
[19:53] <BUGabundo1> what did I loose?
[19:53] <eagles0513875> 180.44
[19:53] <eagles0513875> nvidia website has 180.51
[19:53] <BUGabundo1> DON'T
[19:53] <eagles0513875> what
[19:53] <eagles0513875> i havent install either driver yet
[19:53] <BUGabundo1> don't use drivers from outside the archive
[19:53] <eagles0513875> y is that
[19:53] <eagles0513875> well that what happened before borked my x all together had to reinstall
[19:53] <thiebaude> BUGabundo1: they will break?
[19:54] <BUGabundo1> thiebaude: can for sure
[19:54] <BUGabundo1> and its very hard to get the system working again after it
[19:54] <eagles0513875> heheh
[19:54] <eagles0513875> i totally agree
[19:54] <eagles0513875> but now that i have all my data off there im kool
[19:54] <thiebaude> BUGabundo1: i'll stick with my xorg.conf
[19:55] <eagles0513875> 180.51 was complaining bout modules earlier and it having modules for 180.44 and not .51
[19:55] <eagles0513875> BUGabundo1: check out the new revised syllabi for 101 and 102
[19:56] <eagles0513875> they made 101 easier and took out the x stuff from it
[19:57] <BUGabundo1> syllabi!?!?!?
[19:57] <BUGabundo1> my prob with the 101 is that my exam was really old...
[19:57] <BUGabundo1> from 2005
[19:57] <BUGabundo1> all about Redhat
[19:59] <eagles0513875> BUGabundo1: ahhh
[19:59] <eagles0513875> syllabi = syllabus plural form
[19:59] <eagles0513875> well i have a place you can get these exams and a program that is like an exam simulator and you can stay practicing these questions its free
[19:59] <eagles0513875> and what not
[20:00] <DanaG> If you want newer nvidia, there's a PPA for them.
[20:00] <DanaG> http://ubuntu-ky.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1099866
[20:00] <DanaG> er
[20:00] <thiebaude> eagles0513875: you got a link?
[20:00] <eagles0513875> i dont get whats wrong with the ones from nvidia
[20:00] <eagles0513875> lpi.org is the site
[20:00] <DanaG> that was a feeling-lucky link... lemme dig up the actual one.
[20:00] <thiebaude> kewl
[20:00] <thiebaude> thanks
[20:00] <eagles0513875> thats for the linux certification
[20:00] <eagles0513875> for those exmas not limited to linux but also msft exams etc its www.examcollections.com
[20:01] <thiebaude> i need to learn all i can, eagles0513875
[20:01] <DanaG> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-x-swat/+archive/x-updates
[20:01] <eagles0513875> thiebaude: i hear ya
[20:01] <eagles0513875> im dying to finish college
[20:01] <eagles0513875> 22 this past wednesday and have at least another 2 yrs
[20:02] <thiebaude> eagles0513875: you studying linux admin?
[20:02] <eagles0513875> bsc computing informatino systems
[20:02] <eagles0513875> getting a jump on certifications
[20:02] <eagles0513875> at least linux stuff
[20:02] <thiebaude> wow, i wish i had the money to do that
[20:02] <eagles0513875> im spoiled
[20:02] <eagles0513875> parents
[20:02] <eagles0513875> and the governemnt here spoil students
[20:02] <thiebaude> i heard that,lol
[20:02] <eagles0513875> get paid to study
[20:02] <eagles0513875> and
[20:03] <eagles0513875> they give tax refunds up to 75% of tuition fees even cert exam fees
[20:03] <eagles0513875> there is such a high demand for IT
[20:03] <eagles0513875> is karmic gonna have 4.2.3
[20:04] <thiebaude> bbl ppl
[20:04] <eagles0513875> later
[20:04] <thiebaude> ok
[20:04] <BUGabundo1> eagles0513875: you are lucky
[20:04] <BUGabundo1> here its expensive
[20:04] <BUGabundo1> 400€
[20:04] <eagles0513875> im originally from usa
[20:05] <eagles0513875> used to pay bout 17k usd yearly
[20:05] <eagles0513875> im in central europe now
[20:05] <eagles0513875> parents migrated there over 30 yrs ago sis and i born there but coming back to our roots to study here and be with relatives
[20:05] <BUGabundo1> I meant the LPIs
[20:05] <eagles0513875> ya they are
[20:05] <eagles0513875> but worth it
[20:06] <eagles0513875> think bout this
[20:07] <eagles0513875> anyone know a list that has all the ppa's and whats in them
[20:07] <eagles0513875> or list with links to their pages on launchpad
[20:08] <BUGabundo1> yep
[20:08] <BUGabundo1> its called google
[20:08] <eagles0513875> i know but someone who doesnt know the name of particular ppa
[20:08] <eagles0513875> what they supposed to do
[20:08] <eagles0513875> i tried just to google kubuntu ppas didnt bring any of htem up only a link to what ppas were
[20:09] <blueyed> eagles0513875: IIRC there has been some post about it on some ML, somebody having setup something like that.
[20:09] <eagles0513875> well ill keep looking
[20:09] <eagles0513875> ill come across it at some point in time
[20:11] <|eagles0513875|> sry bout that
[20:12] <|eagles0513875|> dunno y the name karmic koala i picture a tie die colored psychadelic koala
[20:12] <|eagles0513875|> !ghost
[20:47] <eagles0513875> can someone clarify why its nto good to use the nvidia video card drivers over the ones int he repo
[20:47] <BUGabundo1> eagles0513875: humm taste?
[20:47] <BUGabundo1> basicly because it can mess your system
[20:48] <BUGabundo1> and then devs can't provide you with support
[20:48] <eagles0513875> cant it do that if you install it ontop of the one thats in the repos cuz that what happened to me earlier
[20:48] <BUGabundo1> since you used 3rd parties
[20:48] <eagles0513875> humm
[20:49] <eagles0513875> you know if there is a newer x version in karmic or is it the same version as in jaunty
[20:49] <rski> x um
[20:49] <eagles0513875> here goes nothing with the reboot
[20:51] <eagles0513875> im trying to pin down an issue of random nasty freeses where i have to hard reboot my machine rski
[20:51] <eagles0513875> humm thats a nice way to start with all the icons jumbled lol
[20:51] <BUGabundo1> intel??
[20:51] <eagles0513875> no
[20:51] <eagles0513875> nvidia
[20:51] <eagles0513875> motherboard has an nforce chipset
[20:52] <eagles0513875> and video is an 8800gt
[20:54] <eagles0513875> now this is getting annoying i have half the icons smashed up near the left side of the bottom panel like the cclock and other icons
[20:54] <eagles0513875> and i cant remove any spacers
[20:54] <BluesKaj> uhoh
[20:55] <eagles0513875> well im impressed that i can stil boot onto my machine lol
[20:55]  * BluesKaj stares at the Update manager and wonders
[20:55] <eagles0513875> BluesKaj: do you have your data backed up
[20:56] <eagles0513875> BluesKaj:  Karmic is NOT RELEASED and may break your system if you use it
[20:56] <BluesKaj> yeah , it's all on W7 :)
[20:56] <eagles0513875> on the same machine lol
[20:56] <eagles0513875> you are kinda playing with fire that way
[20:56] <eagles0513875> if you fudge up grub you have a mission control we have a problem style problem
[20:57] <BluesKaj> not really , I also use wife's pc for the real essential media stuff
[20:57] <eagles0513875> im seeming to make this even worse
[20:57] <eagles0513875> lol
[20:58] <BluesKaj> I have grub disks and gparted , between them i can setup and reinstall mostly anything
[20:58] <BluesKaj> this like atoy in some ways but i do get frustrated if stuff  freezes
[21:00] <eagles0513875> nice
[21:00] <eagles0513875> and i fixed the panel issue
[21:04] <DanaG> grr, stupid hal... doesn't realize eSATA is hotpluggable.
[21:12] <eagles0513875> whats the name of the widget to switch between multiple desktops
[21:13] <robin0800> eagles0513875: workspace switcher?
[21:14] <eagles0513875> ty rob
[21:14] <eagles0513875> interesting im trying to add that widget and its not in the list
[21:14] <eagles0513875> robin0800: its called pager which is rather a confusing name to use to be honest
[21:15] <robin0800> eagles0513875: not in ubuntu its not
[21:18] <eagles0513875> im on kubuntu
[21:18] <eagles0513875> now im still having issues movign stuff to the other side of the panel
[21:20] <BluesKaj> yeah , it's sort of hit and miss on jaunty , one never knows if moving icons will work ...using the widgets panel seems to make things work better
[21:21] <robin0800> eagles0513875: perhaps perhaps ask in #kubuntu
[21:21] <eagles0513875> robin0800: this is karmic that im on i think we are all in one room
[21:22]  * BluesKaj gets adventurous and installs Karmic ...always thought that jaunty name was lame anyway :)
[21:22] <robin0800> eagles0513875: Yes but what your asking is kde
[21:22] <eagles0513875> robin0800: they will send me back in here
[21:23] <eagles0513875> ill figure it out
[21:23] <eagles0513875> i think its a sign i need to hit the sack
[21:23] <slipttees> news about 10.04 Leaky Leopard ?
[21:23] <BUGabundo1> yay for BluesKaj
[21:23] <BluesKaj> BUGabundo1, howdy :)
[21:24] <BluesKaj> upgrades coming down the pipe as we speak
[21:24] <slipttees> channel ubuntu+2
[21:24] <slipttees> ?
[21:24] <BUGabundo1> slipttees: rofl
[21:25] <slipttees> i hope
[21:26] <robin0800> BluesKaj: on this laptop kubuntu karmic installed but the update to kde 4.3 beta 1 completly stopped it back on ubuntu now
[21:27] <eagles0513875> what repo is 4.3
[21:27] <eagles0513875> in
[21:27] <eagles0513875> ya upgrade to upgraded packages taht i updated  are coming down my pipe line
[21:32] <eagles0513875> night
[21:33] <BluesKaj> nite eagles0513875
[22:02] <BluesKaj> well, karmic installed ok, but the wifi needs some help , prolly ndiswrapper again
[22:02] <BUGabundo1> BluesKaj: what card?
[22:03] <BUGabundo1> ndis project seems to be close to dead!
[22:04] <BluesKaj> Belkin USB adapter , we ran out of router ports so i use this on my pc when kids are visiting
[22:05] <BluesKaj> uses the rt2870 driver I think
[22:05] <BUGabundo1> I used one of those and it worked out of the boz
[22:05] <BUGabundo1> ahhhh
[22:05] <BUGabundo1> rt
[22:05] <BUGabundo1> wonderfull
[22:17] <BUGabundo1> gents: start your engines: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/sprints/uds-karmic
[22:22]  * ienorand is opening 26 new tabs
[22:23] <BUGabundo1> ienorand: I filed a bug on LP to improve the way we can subsc to blueprints and bugs
[22:23] <BUGabundo1> without getting carpic syndrom
[22:23] <yoasif> woo hoo, on karmic now! :)
[22:23] <ienorand> yoasif: Good so far?
[22:23] <BUGabundo1> yoasif: welcome
[22:24] <yoasif> ienorand: seems the same as jaunty so far, except that my wifi light on my laptop works now :)
[22:24] <BUGabundo1> hheh
[22:24] <BUGabundo1> I love the one for kernel-karmic-android
[22:26] <BUGabundo1> what the heck is package-license-tracking ?
[22:28] <BUGabundo1> apw: you been busy
[22:29] <DanaG> hmm, karmic on ARM... I want to see what sort of device that'd be for.
[22:35] <BUGabundo1> oh great there goes Xorg for good https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-karmic-xorg
[22:36] <DanaG> I hope they'll fix grub2 to do efi and non-efi in one package.
[22:36] <DanaG> Like Fedora does.
[22:37] <BUGabundo1> you mean rip/steal/borrow the Fedora code
[22:40] <DanaG> Well, I still prefer the Ubuntu/Debian "automagic" comment stuff over the Fedora thing... where I honestly don't know what it does.
[22:40] <DanaG> I think it just copies and pastes the old options, and that's it.
[22:43] <yoasif> anyone have a page with the karmic proposals? or are they all just blueprints right now?
[22:44] <BUGabundo1> yoasif: I pasted a bit ago
[22:44] <BUGabundo1> yoasif:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/sprints/uds-karmic
[22:46] <BUGabundo1> this one is nice https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Specs/KarmicKernelFlavours
[22:47] <yoasif> BUGabundo1: ty
[22:50] <DanaG> INTERESTING: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Specs/ARMSoftbootLoader
[22:50] <DanaG> ER
[22:50] <DanaG> sorry, caps.
[22:51] <DanaG> My input: they should check out the Angström project's kexecboot loader menu thingy.
[22:55] <ienorand> Unfortunate naming collision: The Angstrom Project is a high cadence pixel microlensing survey of the bulge of the Andromeda Galaxy?
[22:55] <ienorand> Blaah! Ants in my keyboard!
[22:56] <DanaG> http://images.google.com/images?q=angstrom%20kexecboot
[23:00] <DanaG> oh, and I wish they'd unbreak this:
[23:00] <DanaG> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-panel/+bug/283278
[23:01] <DanaG> er, the other way:
[23:01] <DanaG> I want to KEEP my system menu items.
[23:03] <BUGabundo> eheh
[23:03] <DanaG> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/fast-user-switch-applet/+bug/343219
[23:03] <BUGabundo> theirs is a gconf key for it
[23:04] <DanaG> Invalid?  INVALID?
[23:04] <DanaG> grr.
[23:04] <DanaG> It's not invalid.... it happens.
[23:05] <cwillu> you would prefer wontfix?
[23:05] <DanaG> It would be more correct, at the very least.
[23:05] <cwillu> or is it just invalid because of the gconf option?
[23:05] <DanaG> I've removed my FUSA, because I want to have shutdown and logout in my system menu.
[23:06] <DanaG> But that also means I can't use guest sessions.
[23:06] <cwillu> BUGabundo said there's a gconf key though
[23:06] <cwillu> and BUGabundo wouldn't lie to me :p
[23:06] <yoasif> FUSA should really be integrated into the system menu and the shutdown dialog as well... instead of being locked into a panel applet
[23:06] <yoasif> not everyone wants to have a dual panel layout
[23:07] <yoasif> and a single panel gets crowded fast
[23:07] <yoasif> it's really messy the way it is currently -- doesn't feel very integrated at all
[23:08] <yoasif> where do you report *that* bug to though :p not to the applet, since those aren't parts of the applet.
[23:09] <cwillu> the desktop team
[23:09] <cwillu> BUGabundo, you lied to me, there's no gconf option :p
[23:09] <ienorand> yoasif: Hmm, I don't think having idgin staus in the system menu would be a good idea...
[23:09] <ienorand> s/idgin/pidgin
[23:09] <yoasif> cwillu: linkme if you could, i'll write something up
[23:10] <yoasif> ienorand: yeah, which is why the pidgin status shouldn't be in there...
[23:10] <DanaG> oh yeah, and the LAG on volume changing -- where the change itself waits for the notification to be displayed first! -- really sucks.
[23:10] <yoasif> whats up with that envelope icon anyway, the notification applet? how useless is that thing?
[23:11] <DanaG> Same with skipping multiple tracks in quodlibet -- you end up with a huge backlog of un-expire-able notification bubbles.
[23:11] <ienorand> yoasif: Very true, I've bought back the pidgin icon since at least, that one is _usable_
[23:12] <BUGabundo1> cwillu: everything can be an option on gconf
[23:12] <DanaG> And I'll spare the rant on update-notifier supposedly "abusing" the "notification" area.
[23:12] <yoasif> DanaG: yeah, what a joke
[23:12] <cwillu> yes, but not everything _is_ _already_ an option on gconf
[23:13] <BUGabundo1> cwillu: FOSS is your friend.. make it be
[23:13]  * BUGabundo1 offers an hammer to cwillu
[23:13] <yoasif> ienorand: sadly, none of this is going to be fixed, since canonical is behind those changes, even though they are poorly thought out
[23:13] <DanaG> yeah.
[23:13] <cwillu> BUGabundo, I've be spelunking through gnome-panel's source, I've done everything possible to repress the memories of that rats nest :p
[23:14] <cwillu> amazing it works at all, in all honesty :p
[23:14] <ienorand> Also, why is the indicator applet near enough invisible per default? That is confusing indeed when you try to arrange the icons...
[23:14] <yoasif> this still needs fixing: https://bugs.launchpad.net/gnome-panel/+bug/223075
[23:14] <BUGabundo1> I would be glad to have sound without the need to rebot
[23:14] <yoasif> looks horribly unprofessional
[23:16] <DanaG> Oh yeah, and not all panel applets have consistent size.
[23:16] <DanaG> http://users.csc.calpoly.edu/~dgoyette/Screenshot-pidgin.png
[23:16] <cwillu> DanaG, really?  you mean the taskbar can be wider than the clock? :p
[23:16] <DanaG> yeah, pidgin is rather broken there, too.
[23:17] <DanaG> er, I mean, tray icons, rather.
[23:17] <joaopinto> BUGabundo, the need to develop code for an option for a "feature" that was removed is not really the best part of FOSS
[23:17] <DanaG> ... and the cpufreq thingy, too.
[23:18] <DanaG> Gotta' love the topic bar there.
[23:20] <yoasif> DanaG: play with dejavu sans... those fonts look awfully chunky to me ;)
[23:21] <DanaG> Well, I have a 147 DPI display, and have set Gnome to match.
[23:21] <DanaG> Makes the fonts wonderfully smooth on screen.  But, you get some apps like Pidgin that make bad assumptions about sizes.
[23:21] <ienorand> Have there been any talks about what's happening with the u-m notification :p ?
[23:22] <cwillu> ienorand, in what sense?
[23:22] <cwillu> there's already an option to turn on the old icon
[23:23] <ienorand> So they're plnning on making current default stay?
[23:23] <cwillu> dear god I hope so
[23:23] <yoasif> the update manager change seems to be modeled after mac os x -- it works there, and it's not such a horrible change, imo. it annoys the crazy update fiends, but for "normal" people, it's probably a good change
[23:24] <DanaG> To me, ANYTHING auto-opening provokes an instant, very strong KILL reflex.
[23:24] <cwillu> and as I said before, the option to restore the old behaviour is there :p
[23:24] <DanaG> They should at least make the GUI have sanctioned ways to revert to the old behavior.
[23:24] <yoasif> DanaG: i agree, is there a bug report about that?
[23:25] <DanaG> Well, not a formal one for just that point; it's just mentioned among that huge "auto-opening is wrong!" thread.
[23:25] <yoasif> maybe an option in software sources/update manager
[23:25] <joaopinto> there is a formal bug report about that
[23:25] <DanaG> Here's another odd thing: it doesn't update package cache first.
[23:26] <DanaG> I booted a drive I hadn't booted in 5 weeks..... and update-manager autolaunched.... to show me 5-week-old updates that probably didn't even exist on the servers anymore.
[23:26] <yoasif> where are all these bugs, i want to hit "affects me too"!
[23:26] <yoasif> DanaG: yes, but do you want it to autodownload too? :p
[23:26]  * BUGabundo1 manually runs UM
[23:26] <yoasif> DanaG: and how often?
[23:27] <cwillu> DanaG, odd, I'd expect anacron to run the apt job when it booted
[23:27] <cwillu> yoasif, there's already gui for autodownload and download period
[23:27] <yoasif> cwillu: yeah, looking at that now
[23:28] <DanaG> I love that quote about "throwing out the baby and keeping the bathwater" (re: abusing notification area).
[23:28]  * ienorand shudders at the very though of the new u-m behaviour, I'd rather have autimatic updates, that way it would actually increase update-frequency...
[23:28] <DanaG> The OS X update thingy is annoying, too.  BOING!  BOING!  BOING!  BOING!  BOING!  BOUNCE!  Hey, look at me!
[23:29] <DanaG> I like to wait until there are changelogs first -- and it annoys me that packages often don't show changelogs.
[23:30] <BUGabundo1> I rather have UM not ask my password
[23:31] <DanaG> If the problem was the icon not being discoverable enough... they should have the bubble show the star-like icon itself, as a way to say "click THAT one" -- and if the problem was "non-intuitive icons"... fix the icon designs.
[23:32] <BUGabundo1> DanaG: but know bubles are not clickable
[23:32] <cwillu> hmm
[23:32] <ienorand> DanaG: That's a very good point "click the update icon" doesn't really give much for new users
[23:32] <cwillu> now that I think about it, what about auto-opening (wait for it), but opening _minimized_?
[23:32] <yoasif> i can't find the request to patch software properties to reenable the update icon
[23:32] <DanaG> If it had big orange icon in bubble, and same (smaller) icon in tray, that'd help.
[23:33] <cwillu> then you still get the benefits of a text description, the slowly throbbing attention requested indicator in the panel, etc
[23:33] <ienorand> I still haven't gotten used to not instinctively going for the bubble to try to interact with it... I even wonder if that decision was right after all...
[23:34] <DanaG> oh yeah, the big thing for me is that the notifications are laggy if you do too much too quickly -- like skipping 5 tracks in quodlibet, or changing volume rapidly.
[23:35] <DanaG> If you overshoot and go too loud... it stays stuck too loud until it finishes the notification, and starts going down.
[23:35] <DanaG> Volume change waiting on the visual indication itself... bad.
[23:36] <ienorand> cwillu: It's still a non-intuitive behaviour in my opinion, updates do not open full blown "applications" and everyone who has ever used a computer _knows_ that.
[23:36] <BUGabundo1> and now volume is logaritmic not linear
[23:36] <DanaG> oh, and PulseAudio 0.9.15 + Blueman finally gives working bluetooth audio -- the first time ever for me.
[23:36] <BUGabundo1> YAY
[23:36] <DanaG> but "flat volumes" are odd, too -- move a stream to the device, and the volume you've set for that stream.... is forgotten.
[23:36] <ienorand> DanaG: ah, so that's why the volume control is so bothersome...
[23:36] <BUGabundo1> have to test that
[23:37] <BUGabundo1> for me less then 65% volume is MUTE
[23:37] <DanaG> oh, and the *BLINK* I'M AT FULL VOLUME! *BLINK* -- should just do nothing.
[23:37] <BUGabundo1> what blink?
[23:38] <DanaG> Try holding volume-up or volume-down once it's already at max or min.
[23:38] <DanaG> ... respectively.
[23:38] <BUGabundo1> oh and the 3 click policy on the volume applet? crazy, bag UI
[23:38] <BUGabundo1> left click, right click, double click
[23:38] <BUGabundo1> DanaG: you mean NotOSD ?
[23:38] <DanaG> notify-osd, yeah.
[23:39] <DanaG> It sits there blinking at you, and eating CPU.  And then double-flashing on window close, due to double animation.
[23:40] <yoasif> guys, please add your thoughts and vote for this bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/software-properties/+bug/377770
[23:41] <BUGabundo1> https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/foundations-karmic-audio
[23:42] <DanaG> My USB sound card reports volumes to alsamixer as going from 0.0db to 0.0db.
[23:42] <DanaG> 0 to 100%, respectively.  =þ
[23:43] <yoasif> DanaG: you were complaining about those update manager changes, please comment on that bug :)
[23:45] <ienorand> True, both n-m and vol are very odd interaction-wise at the moment, no to mention the abominable indicator-applet, in my opinion the u-m icon was the most straigtforward one, really...
[23:47] <DanaG> Might be nice to have PA use the volume buttons on a USB audio device... to control only that audio device.
[23:47] <yoasif> indicator applet doesn't seem to do anything useful -- what the hell is it for exactly
[23:48] <ienorand> yoasif: for things like pidgin and evolution, new messages and similar... They've removed the pidgin status icon as of it...
[23:48] <DanaG> https://tango.0pointer.de/pipermail/pulseaudio-discuss/2008-February/001277.html
[23:50] <yoasif> ienorand: yeah, but it never seemed to do anything when i interacted with it
[23:50] <DanaG> It's odd to see an "e-mail" icon (i.e. an envelope) just for notification of a buddy signing on or off.
[23:51] <thiebaude1> DanaG: i changed that envelope icon in pidgin
[23:54] <ienorand> Do you think it would be a good idea to somehow autohide the network and volume icons when idle? Those are not used very much, and give no useful information whatsoever when they are "inactive" (oh, maybe signal strength...), something that could be delay-hidden?
[23:55] <yoasif> ienorand: windows xp has something like that, the windows 7 version is even better, since there is a ui for choosing which ones will be auto hidden
[23:56] <DanaG> I found that it always kept forgetting the settings, every time an icon changed description.
[23:56] <DanaG> Example: temperature sensor.  Each time the tooltip changes, it's a "new" applet!
[23:58] <ienorand> Hmm, yea, I've always hated the auto-hide things in windows though... But if they reliably expanded when hoovering over the notification area maybe... (Reliably is key here I think, one of the reasons I don't use autohiding panels is that it's always pure luck if the expand when you hoover over them...)
[23:59] <cwillu> ienorand, hiding them would remove their utility almost completely
[23:59] <cwillu> ienorand, for the volume applet for sure
[23:59] <DanaG> For me, no Windows version has EVER remembered those settings.
[23:59] <DanaG> I just show all, always.
[23:59] <yoasif> DanaG: fixed in 7
[23:59] <DanaG> Wasn't in beta.
[23:59] <DanaG> At least, not for apps that change tooltip.