| === jeiworth_ is now known as jeiworth | ||
| === nixternal_ is now known as nixternal | ||
| === nubae1 is now known as Nubae | ||
| === nubae1 is now known as Nubae | ||
| Svenstaro | Anybody alive in here at all? | 15:56 |
|---|---|---|
| bencrisford_ | hey | 18:35 |
| Svenstaro | Anybody alive in here at all? | 18:55 |
| bencrisford_ | HI | 18:58 |
| bencrisford_ | im alive :D svenstaro :) | 18:58 |
| Svenstaro | Uh hi there. | 18:58 |
| Svenstaro | I'll just make my own Edubuntu now. I'm sick of the uncertainity and silence. | 18:59 |
| bencrisford_ | lol | 18:59 |
| Svenstaro | I really wanna create a distro suited for schools, not just some random apps put into a LTSP. | 18:59 |
| bencrisford_ | dont leave us! | 18:59 |
| bencrisford_ | work on edubuntu | 19:00 |
| bencrisford_ | why not help me with eskole? | 19:00 |
| Svenstaro | Well I wanna, but if Cannocial is gonna keep quite I'll make my own. | 19:00 |
| Svenstaro | What's that? | 19:00 |
| bencrisford_ | http://dev.abruptus.dyndns.org/projects/eskole | 19:00 |
| bencrisford_ | s'gonna rock! :P | 19:00 |
| bencrisford_ | but we're gonna push and get edubuntu back up and running | 19:01 |
| bencrisford_ | get some fresh peeps | 19:01 |
| bencrisford_ | and the old'uns working | 19:01 |
| bencrisford_ | we were gonna organise a meeting, and advertise it | 19:01 |
| Svenstaro | No use, we need some people who are willing to pull all-nighters for Edubuntu's sake or whatever the name is gonna be. | 19:01 |
| bencrisford_ | im willing to :) | 19:01 |
| Svenstaro | It's about dedication. I'm certainly willing to do it. | 19:02 |
| Svenstaro | I know how to build distros so that's a plus I guess. | 19:02 |
| bencrisford_ | well im willing to put alot in | 19:03 |
| bencrisford_ | if a few others are | 19:03 |
| bencrisford_ | then theres a driving force behind it | 19:03 |
| bencrisford_ | and thats all it needs to get started | 19:03 |
| Svenstaro | You can't count on too many people I'm afraid. | 19:03 |
| bencrisford_ | i can bring in fresh peope | 19:03 |
| bencrisford_ | im sure you know people too | 19:04 |
| bencrisford_ | thats the whole point of the meeting idea | 19:04 |
| bencrisford_ | advertise it across mailing lists, forums etc. | 19:04 |
| bencrisford_ | so we get fresh people, original people and everyone plans/ideas get heard | 19:04 |
| Svenstaro | Don't do that before there is a base. | 19:04 |
| Svenstaro | Edubuntu needs to be almost completely scratched. | 19:05 |
| Svenstaro | Too much is wrong right now. | 19:05 |
| bencrisford_ | whaddya mean by base? | 19:05 |
| bencrisford_ | and scratch? | 19:05 |
| Svenstaro | A base means there is a firm fundament that incorporates all the basic ideas behind the new Edubuntu. | 19:05 |
| Svenstaro | Scratch all that stands right now, it will only lead to the wrong directions. We need a fresh start. | 19:05 |
| Svenstaro | The current Edubuntu is direction-less. | 19:06 |
| bencrisford_ | thats what this meeting idea is aboiut | 19:06 |
| bencrisford_ | a fresh start | 19:06 |
| bencrisford_ | a brainstorm | 19:06 |
| Svenstaro | Yes, well we better get together soon then. | 19:06 |
| Svenstaro | Is there a mailing list except for the official Edubuntu one for this? | 19:07 |
| bencrisford_ | edubuntu-devel? | 19:07 |
| Svenstaro | Is that one actuall alive? | 19:09 |
| Nubae | its kind of alive | 19:11 |
| Nubae | but we need some real fresh blood | 19:11 |
| Nubae | or it will be dead come next release | 19:11 |
| Svenstaro | I'll start a thread on edubuntu-devel. I hope I get some responses. I am actually quite fast in hacking something workable together if that's what it takes. | 19:14 |
| Svenstaro | It's time for the revolution, finally... | 19:14 |
| Nubae | Svenstaro: it is indeed, nice to see that kind of enthusiasm, many of us here are just sceptical at this point, a revolution is gonna be required | 19:32 |
| Nubae | Svenstaro: u should talk to Laserjock if u really want to start hacking/packaging/maintaining/triaging | 19:32 |
| Svenstaro | Frankly I don't care. If people are too stubborn to drop what went wrong just because it was hard work once, I'll just take my direction. I don't mean to say that I don't want to cooperate, quite the opposite actually, but I *really* think a semi-fresh start is required. | 19:33 |
| Svenstaro | By semi-fresh I mean we might as well use Alternate's LTSP and that's about it. | 19:33 |
| Nubae | yeah, I agree :-) still communicate with Laserjock, he's really been doing edubuntu by himself for the last 2-3 release cycles | 19:34 |
| Svenstaro | Does he check the lists? | 19:35 |
| Nubae | yeah he does | 19:50 |
| Nubae | but u can contact him directly too | 19:50 |
| Nubae | laserjock at ubuntu.com I believe | 19:51 |
| bencrisford_ | hi again | 20:17 |
| bencrisford_ | sorry my internet broke | 20:17 |
| bencrisford_ | Svenstaro, Nubae: after I disconnected - did i miss anything | 20:26 |
| Svenstaro | We had a party and you were invited but didn't attend. | 20:27 |
| bencrisford_ | :( | 20:30 |
| bencrisford_ | :P | 20:30 |
| Svenstaro | Check yer mails | 20:44 |
| bencrisford_ | ok :) | 20:54 |
| bencrisford_ | Svenstaro: | 20:54 |
| * bencrisford_ has no new mails :( | 20:54 | |
| Svenstaro | Check again | 20:54 |
| Svenstaro | https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/edubuntu-devel/2009-May/002876.html | 20:55 |
| bencrisford_ | lol ok | 20:55 |
| bencrisford_ | i dnt get why i never got it :( | 20:58 |
| bencrisford_ | got it :D | 20:58 |
| * bencrisford_ has replied svenstaro | 21:04 | |
| * Svenstaro has received | 21:04 | |
| * bencrisford_ smiles :) | 21:05 | |
| Svenstaro | As I said, a name change is a last resort. | 21:05 |
| Svenstaro | nubae, check los mail0s | 21:06 |
| Ahmuck | Svenstaro: u here? | 21:07 |
| bencrisford_ | Svenstaro: so you got my message? thats odd | 21:08 |
| Svenstaro | Ahmuck, of course. | 21:08 |
| Svenstaro | bencrisford_, why? | 21:08 |
| Ahmuck | Svenstaro: i'm dumping ubuntu ltsp on the first of june | 21:08 |
| bencrisford_ | svenstaro: dw, i just got told it didnt work :/ | 21:08 |
| Ahmuck | there are issues that need to be addressed before ubuntu ltsp will work in edubuntu | 21:09 |
| Svenstaro | Ahmuck, so you are the Edubuntu maintainer? | 21:09 |
| Svenstaro | Or rather, Ubuntu LTSP? | 21:09 |
| Ahmuck | define maintainer | 21:09 |
| Svenstaro | Person who takes care of stuff :D | 21:09 |
| Ahmuck | locally yes, for ubuntu, no | 21:10 |
| bencrisford_ | the look-after-er Ahmuk :P | 21:10 |
| Ahmuck | local school districts are getting citrix (ms) and ms office, etc. for free | 21:11 |
| bencrisford_ | Svenstaro: Ugh! Whaddya make of this, i could post to the list fine the other day: http://pastebin.com/m657ddbc2 | 21:11 |
| Svenstaro | Oh dear | 21:11 |
| Svenstaro | Ahmuck, where is that? | 21:11 |
| Ahmuck | part of the reason i've decided to dump it, because i'm to busy and don't have time to train somebody through ltsp and it's problems | 21:11 |
| Ahmuck | 1. need gui tools | 21:11 |
| Ahmuck | 2. firefox keeps crashing | 21:12 |
| Ahmuck | 3. need tools that allow admin globally as well as fine grained per user | 21:12 |
| Ahmuck | 4. messages, etc. are broadcast to everyone ... printing, etc. | 21:12 |
| Ahmuck | 5. user changes sound and everybodys sound changes, etc. | 21:13 |
| Ahmuck | i've run into a host of issues with ltsp on a recent upgrade. it's not something i'd be willing to risk employment deploying. with ms a least you have someone to blame | 21:13 |
| Ahmuck | if edubuntu want's to make a go at it, they need programming support to create tools that teachers can do simple things with to be effective | 21:15 |
| Svenstaro | Heh. Well, this kind of was my point as well. | 21:16 |
| Ahmuck | i'd even go so far to say, specify hardware | 21:16 |
| Ahmuck | i'm still interested in it, but it's got problems | 21:16 |
| bencrisford_ | what kind of programming support? | 21:16 |
| Ahmuck | and programming support needs to listen to users | 21:16 |
| Ahmuck | someone to program gui interfaces. the local high school typing teacher is not going to open a command line to add a user | 21:17 |
| Svenstaro | Exactly my thoughts. | 21:17 |
| bencrisford_ | what exactly is ltsp? | 21:17 |
| Svenstaro | And a gui for that is easy enough. For starters, it could be done with zenity and some cheesy bash scripting | 21:17 |
| bencrisford_ | (soz for the noob questions im new round here :P) | 21:17 |
| Ahmuck | another very important feature is a default wine configuration and some tested windows apps that can be used in edbuntu | 21:17 |
| pygi | ok, what are you talking about? | 21:18 |
| Ahmuck | linux terminal server project | 21:18 |
| pygi | still the same old forking edubuntu? :) | 21:18 |
| Ahmuck | no offence, but forking it would do 2 things. either create something that worked, or put a fire under some people so that edubuntu worked well | 21:18 |
| Ahmuck | bbl | 21:19 |
| pygi | I am not necessarily against it, just asking | 21:19 |
| pygi | I just came in :p | 21:19 |
| Svenstaro | pygi, I take it you read my mail? | 21:20 |
| pygi | Svenstaro: you've got the answer | 21:20 |
| bencrisford_ | answer to what :P | 21:20 |
| * bencrisford_ confused :( | 21:20 | |
| Ahmuck | we keep loosing school districts to citrix, and in a year, there won't be room for ubuntu ltsp or linux anywhere | 21:20 |
| pygi | bencrisford_: he asked about the future of edubuntu | 21:21 |
| bencrisford_ | ah yeah | 21:21 |
| bencrisford_ | we were discussing a meeting earlier | 21:21 |
| pygi | bencrisford_: lets wait with that | 21:21 |
| bencrisford_ | yeah i agree | 21:21 |
| pygi | UDS is coming soon, at least me and Jonathan will be there to find out what's happening | 21:22 |
| bencrisford_ | ah ok | 21:22 |
| Svenstaro | When is it? | 21:22 |
| alkisg | Ahmuck: have you actually used citrix? It was totally unusuable for my school, so we decided to use ltsp. | 21:22 |
| pygi | Svenstaro: next week | 21:22 |
| Ahmuck | people ask ltsp questions in edubuntu because many times in #ltsp they get refered somewhere else | 21:22 |
| Svenstaro | I see | 21:22 |
| Ahmuck | alkisg: i know it's unusable, but a 1200 seat high school just dropped all open source and went with citrix and ms office because someone offered it for free, turn key | 21:23 |
| Ahmuck | ur loosing market share, and it's not a battle you can afford to loose | 21:23 |
| alkisg | OK, "just" is the keyword here, I'd like to see them after trying it for 2-3 months... | 21:23 |
| Ahmuck | they have | 21:23 |
| Ahmuck | it's not "just". | 21:23 |
| alkisg | In 45 minutes of trying, I got *only one* student out of 8 to open excel remotely for 5 minutes. The rest of the time there were only problems. | 21:24 |
| alkisg | Apps kept crashing, response was really slow, logging in was slow, there was no desktop... | 21:25 |
| Svenstaro | Mh | 21:25 |
| Ahmuck | quote " | 21:25 |
| Ahmuck | buntu and LTSP on top of it. Any educational | 21:25 |
| Ahmuck | apps my schools want, I'll install for them. They need my help because | 21:25 |
| Ahmuck | they don't know how to do it. I want t | 21:25 |
| Ahmuck | " end quote | 21:25 |
| Ahmuck | alkisg: i'm crashing all over here with the new 9.04 | 21:26 |
| Ahmuck | hplip crashes our system | 21:26 |
| alkisg | Well, I'm not. I haven't had a crash for the whole year | 21:26 |
| alkisg | 8.10 and then 9.04 | 21:26 |
| Ahmuck | someone prints out something and it's broadcasted to the entire class | 21:26 |
| alkisg | In all the classes... | 21:26 |
| alkisg | Ahmuck: some of the problems you mentioned are easily solved, e.g. for the audio you just need to remove the users from the audio group | 21:27 |
| alkisg | Others can't be solved easily, sure, but I think it's better than citrix | 21:27 |
| Ahmuck | why? if classmate a want's sound and classmate b doesn't shouldn't that be an option, easily done by opening the sound and moving the bar? | 21:27 |
| Ahmuck | again, i'm swamped with work and don't have time to visit the instructor who needs to change it | 21:28 |
| alkisg | Ahmuck: sure, if you remove them from the audio group you get what you're saying | 21:28 |
| alkisg | I.e. student A gets a different mixer from student B | 21:28 |
| Ahmuck | why are users by default in the audio group? | 21:28 |
| Ahmuck | that's the questions that should be asked | 21:28 |
| alkisg | Because gnome-system-tools is not LTSP aware... I agree with you here | 21:29 |
| Ahmuck | which comes back to user managment | 21:29 |
| Ahmuck | my primary #1 problem is making customizations for user managment | 21:29 |
| alkisg | But I prefer user/software management with linux than with windows, its *much* easier | 21:29 |
| Lns | Hey all | 21:29 |
| alkisg | ...and I've been programming windows for the last 17 years | 21:29 |
| alkisg | Hey Lns | 21:30 |
| Lns | Ahmuck: IMHO you should *not* be using Jaunty in a production environment, especially trying to tie it into LTSP and other bits! | 21:30 |
| Lns | That's akin to using Windows 7 on all your machines right now | 21:30 |
| Lns | You have to expect it to break. It's only been out for a little bit. | 21:31 |
| Ahmuck | using 8.10 was better, but still had issues | 21:32 |
| pygi | Ahmuck: I am one of the original authors of Edubuntu Cookbook | 21:32 |
| Lns | Ahmuck: right. I'm still using 8.04 LTS at all my sites, and it's bulletproof. | 21:32 |
| pygi | and the problem is that while everything was slightly dying, so did all of the original authors left the community | 21:33 |
| Ahmuck | from a edubuntu ltsp, we need ... a central server, user managment, personlized profiles for apps, ie .firefox - bookmarks, etc. global managment for apps, ie firefox addons, security, downloads, wallpapers, | 21:34 |
| Ahmuck | and pre-configured wine | 21:34 |
| Lns | Ahmuck: Edubuntu != LTSP | 21:34 |
| Ahmuck | *shrugs* i agree | 21:34 |
| alkisg | Ahmuck: and do you get those with citrix?!!! Personalized profiles for apps? | 21:35 |
| Ahmuck | and drop in the ltsp room and if it's ubuntu specific i get the same response | 21:35 |
| Ahmuck | ltsp != ubuntu | 21:35 |
| Lns | you're right, it's not. | 21:35 |
| Ahmuck | alkisg: don't know. the school calls a local it company to manage it | 21:35 |
| Lns | Ahmuck: All of these things work together in a software ecosystem. No one project leads all of them. | 21:36 |
| Ahmuck | there are no local it linux companies. we did have a local company that brought in a linux admin to set some servers and ie up, but he resigned after it was done, leaving the company stuck with no one to run it | 21:36 |
| Lns | Ahmuck: where are you located? | 21:36 |
| Ahmuck | in a community of 1200, with a company that produces products globally, (they are located here for "cheap" labor) imagine the impression that was left when that happened | 21:37 |
| Ahmuck | anyhow, i'll bbl. feel free to msg me | 21:37 |
| Svenstaro | Oh dear, I sparked quite some conversation there. Good though. | 21:38 |
| Svenstaro | I hate seeing projects die by *not* talking about them. | 21:38 |
| Lns | exactly. | 21:38 |
| Svenstaro | Still there seems to be some controversy about Edubuntu's new direction, which is a good thing IMO. | 21:39 |
| Svenstaro | Personally, I want it to be equally suited for LTSP purposes as for workstation environemnts. | 21:39 |
| pygi | Svenstaro: how would you contribute to the new Edubuntu? :) | 21:39 |
| Lns | Svenstaro: define "it" specifically. :) | 21:39 |
| alkisg | Svenstaro: I totally agree with your email, and I'll try to help in the summer when I have some free time. | 21:40 |
| Svenstaro | pygi, I would even start up a new distro if required. I have a decent bit of Linux knowledge to pull off the basics. I just want to get somethign going at all so others can join in. | 21:40 |
| Svenstaro | Lns, it, the new Edubuntu. | 21:40 |
| Lns | Svenstaro: define "the new Edubuntu" | 21:41 |
| pygi | Svenstaro: you certainly won't have to do it alone | 21:41 |
| pygi | if it'll happen | 21:41 |
| Lns | I think a distribution is completely overkill | 21:41 |
| pygi | Lns: why so? | 21:41 |
| Svenstaro | Lns, the Edubuntu that the old (current) Edubuntu is going to become after we decide on what it should become. Yes, that was recursive but what I said was my own humble opinion only :) | 21:41 |
| Lns | pygi: what is the benefit? | 21:41 |
| Svenstaro | pygi, just saying, I'd be willing to invest substantial time. | 21:42 |
| Lns | Svenstaro: hahaha ;) | 21:42 |
| nubae | Svenstaro: nice post | 21:42 |
| Lns | So we're stuck at the same place we were at about 3 months ago..we don't really *know* what Edubuntu is | 21:42 |
| pygi | Lns: we'll decide what Edubuntu is after we know the current state of it | 21:43 |
| Svenstaro | For starters, I think Edubuntu should lose the sense of filling a general role. It isn't for that stuff. | 21:43 |
| nubae | the problem is other distros are running circles around edubuntu now | 21:43 |
| pygi | Svenstaro: have I already asked you if you know py? | 21:43 |
| Svenstaro | pygi, py...thon? | 21:43 |
| pygi | yes | 21:43 |
| nubae | I'm working mostly with opensuse-edu, and I can tell you honestly that it makes edubuntu look laughable | 21:43 |
| Svenstaro | Of course I do, I give after school lessons on it. | 21:43 |
| nubae | part of that is because of the freedom given to developers to make it what they want it to be | 21:44 |
| Lns | nubae: what's the diff between the two projects? | 21:44 |
| nubae | edubuntu is restricted in that sense | 21:44 |
| pygi | Svenstaro: that's good | 21:44 |
| nubae | and will not change till that restriction is gone | 21:44 |
| nubae | Lns: go and install an opensuse-edu live dvd and see for yourself | 21:44 |
| Lns | nubae: is opensuse-edu its own dist? | 21:44 |
| nubae | just one example is Sugar, which is an icon on the desktop and launches, works and every activity within it works and is the latest | 21:45 |
| nubae | yes it is | 21:45 |
| nubae | and in my opinion I agree, edubuntu has failed there | 21:45 |
| nubae | all the other -edu addons are distros in and of themselves | 21:45 |
| nubae | opensuse-edu has 2 gigs of educational content | 21:46 |
| nubae | all of it works, all of it amazing stuff | 21:46 |
| nubae | everything is gui installabale and managable | 21:46 |
| Lns | nubae: is it open source? Can we integrate it ? | 21:46 |
| nubae | or u can use the command line if you prefer | 21:46 |
| nubae | everything is open source yes | 21:46 |
| nubae | there is something called opensuse studio | 21:46 |
| nubae | I believe I mentioned this once before | 21:46 |
| nubae | you can go in and pick and choose components and then create your own iso | 21:47 |
| nubae | thats then writable to cd, dvd, usb or whatever | 21:47 |
| Lns | IMHO that is all pretty redundant. Why would you need all of that? | 21:47 |
| Lns | ease of installation? | 21:47 |
| nubae | about 2 things to click on and its installed | 21:47 |
| nubae | ltsp just works | 21:47 |
| nubae | and is easily managable | 21:48 |
| nubae | ldap just works | 21:48 |
| Svenstaro | How does K12 compare, by the way? | 21:48 |
| nubae | samba just works | 21:48 |
| nubae | sugar, which is my area, just works | 21:48 |
| Lns | nubae: doesn't all of this stuff 'just work' with ubuntu?? I haven't had issues with installing/managing LTSP at all for a long time. | 21:48 |
| nubae | in ubuntu sugar is stuck at 0.82 and has no chance of developing due to debian policy | 21:48 |
| nubae | heh, no | 21:48 |
| Lns | All of the GUI apps that come with Ubuntu work fine with LTSP, LTSP really doesn't matter | 21:48 |
| nubae | ldap doesnt just work on ubuntu | 21:49 |
| nubae | ltsp is about the only thing | 21:49 |
| Lns | i agree, ldap would be nice | 21:49 |
| nubae | have u seen the jaunty complaints? | 21:49 |
| Svenstaro | So it seems most people here agree that Edubuntu currently just sucks more than a black hole :D | 21:49 |
| * Lns sihgs | 21:49 | |
| Lns | jaunty, imho, is still beta. you can't expect things to 'just work' with a version that just came out. | 21:49 |
| nubae | unless something really drastic happens, I'm no longer interested in development on this platform, and I know many others feel the same | 21:50 |
| nubae | jaunty is RELEASED | 21:50 |
| nubae | its not beta | 21:50 |
| Lns | nubae: i said IMHO. Did Vista 'just work' when it came out? | 21:50 |
| nubae | check the topic | 21:50 |
| Lns | did XP, or 2k, or 98/95? no | 21:50 |
| nubae | are we really going to compare vista to ubuntu? | 21:50 |
| Lns | you're comparing openSuse to it,... | 21:51 |
| nubae | yeah I wouldn compare opensuse to vista either | 21:51 |
| Lns | i'd be willing to wager that opensuse has its fair share of issues with versions it releases at first... | 21:51 |
| nubae | but anyway, unless something changes with policy, ubuntu will stay as it is | 21:51 |
| nubae | its not what I'm talking about | 21:51 |
| nubae | I'm not mentioning the teething problems | 21:51 |
| nubae | ok... lets turn it around | 21:52 |
| nubae | whats good about edubuntu right now? | 21:52 |
| nubae | edubuntu, not ubuntu | 21:52 |
| Lns | umm, we have a community..that's about it ;) | 21:52 |
| nubae | ah, ok, well barely | 21:52 |
| nubae | You should step into the opensuse-edu channel and lurk and watch as the work happens, that is a community | 21:53 |
| nubae | actual work happens | 21:53 |
| nubae | daily | 21:53 |
| nubae | with many members contributing | 21:53 |
| nubae | it grows | 21:53 |
| alkisg | I agree with nubae here. I wish edubuntu had the same goals as opensuse-edu. | 21:53 |
| Svenstaro | I think schools except a longer release cycle than Edubuntu has. I actually thought about making the new 'Edubuntu' stand on Debian but I'm afraid of the licensing and Debian's strict policy on that stuff. | 21:53 |
| pygi | Svenstaro: be careful when saying that someone agrees that edubuntu sucks | 21:53 |
| pygi | most of the people like to talk, but when it comes to action most fail | 21:54 |
| pygi | so wait and see :) | 21:54 |
| nubae | pygi: +1 | 21:54 |
| Lns | Svenstaro: you have a choice of release cycles - stick with the LTS versions, you'll be a happy camper | 21:54 |
| Svenstaro | Personally, I'm a big Arch Linux guy but I wouldn't use a rolling distro to base a school distro. | 21:54 |
| pygi | Svenstaro: I use archlinux right now too | 21:54 |
| nubae | heh, when hardy came out it was the worst release yet | 21:54 |
| nubae | partly because firefox 3 was still in beta | 21:55 |
| Svenstaro | pygi, I'm sorry :/ I'm actually quite eager to do *something* | 21:55 |
| nubae | but still | 21:55 |
| pygi | Svenstaro: I know you are, just saying from experience | 21:55 |
| nubae | there are many of us that have put our nose to the grind stone in here though | 21:55 |
| Lns | nubae: doesn't matter, nobody with any sense of experience rolls a dist. to a brand newly released version. That's just naive | 21:55 |
| nubae | but we've been forced to stay within very restrictive limits and the tools are not there to move forward efficiently or easily | 21:56 |
| Lns | not in an environment where so many people use it and depend on it daily, anyway. | 21:56 |
| nubae | and I just think its easier in opensuse-edu | 21:56 |
| pygi | I think schools don't want to upgrade every half year | 21:56 |
| Lns | pygi: i *know* my schools don't | 21:56 |
| nubae | well, its about building a product | 21:56 |
| nubae | and right now edubuntu is not a product | 21:56 |
| Lns | nubae: why is it about building a product? | 21:56 |
| nubae | its just this addon which really is just a bunch of programs | 21:56 |
| nubae | because thats what schools want | 21:57 |
| Lns | all of the pieces are there, why do you need something that says "Hey I'm educational ubuntu! use me!" | 21:57 |
| Svenstaro | I agree there, nubae | 21:57 |
| Lns | nubae: I disagree | 21:57 |
| Lns | schools want something that works. They want support, and they want someone to depend on to fix it when it breaks. They want to know how to use it. | 21:57 |
| nubae | well, thats why Novell has made a deal with HP to carry its educational distro on its laptops | 21:57 |
| pygi | Svenstaro: HedgeMage is a cool kiddo, she's one of the original authors of edubuntu cookbool | 21:58 |
| nubae | and why canonical has pretty much dropped any concept of education on ubuntu | 21:58 |
| Svenstaro | Hey HedgeMage :) | 21:58 |
| nubae | I've not heard a peep from an official ubuntu person in many months | 21:58 |
| HedgeMage | hi, guys :) | 21:58 |
| Lns | nubae: Ubuntu != Canonical | 21:58 |
| nubae | thats not the point | 21:58 |
| Lns | nubae: you're comparing opensuse/novell to ubuntu/canonical. it's not the same | 21:58 |
| pygi | Lns: if we went forward with something new, I know of at least two companies willing to do support | 21:58 |
| Lns | pygi: you know 3, you mean. ;) | 21:59 |
| nubae | why is that not the same? | 21:59 |
| pygi | Lns: what's the third one? | 21:59 |
| * Lns raises hand | 21:59 | |
| nubae | Lns company | 21:59 |
| pygi | Lns: :P | 21:59 |
| nubae | hell I would too | 21:59 |
| HedgeMage | :) | 21:59 |
| Svenstaro | Is Scott in herE? | 21:59 |
| nubae | but right now, we're rolling out opensuse-edu, running the latest sugar with kiwi-ltsp | 22:00 |
| Svenstaro | Who just replied to mah mail? | 22:00 |
| Lns | nubae: it's not the same because canonical obviously doesn't care much for edubuntu, but we stand anyway | 22:00 |
| nubae | ah yes, there u are right | 22:00 |
| nubae | scott is a serious contributor to LTSP and edubuntu, but like others I believe he lost faith | 22:00 |
| nubae | he now hangs on the ltsp channel | 22:00 |
| nubae | dont know if he's even in here | 22:01 |
| nubae | he's not | 22:01 |
| nubae | sigh... | 22:01 |
| nubae | this just makes me so sad | 22:01 |
| Lns | we lost a lot of ppl because edubuntu used to mean easy ltsp installation. | 22:01 |
| nubae | its like watching a flame go out | 22:01 |
| nubae | yep edubuntu should be a distro | 22:01 |
| Lns | nubae: doesn't mean we can't use different fuel | 22:01 |
| Lns | nubae: yep? who are you responding to? | 22:02 |
| nubae | u | 22:02 |
| nubae | easy ltsp installation = edubuntu as a distro | 22:03 |
| Lns | I'll bbl, have a meeting | 22:03 |
| Svenstaro | So many conflicting opinions again. The people who worked on Edubuntu for long say "Fix it up", I say decide on a direction (for now!) and excel in that direction before tackling new ones, others say just let it die. | 22:04 |
| pygi | Svenstaro: here's the thing | 22:05 |
| Svenstaro | Also, making a bootable ISO, really isn't all that hard. | 22:05 |
| pygi | we know we need to do something | 22:05 |
| pygi | and we'll do it | 22:05 |
| Svenstaro | I'm building another distro right now and it really isn't all that hard, just takes time. | 22:05 |
| pygi | Svenstaro: we'll have to decide what direction to go, and as always not everyone will like it | 22:05 |
| nubae | its actually even easier if the tools are available... opensuse studio I'm not sure if its gpl or not, but open build service is | 22:06 |
| pygi | but the point is to create a healthy community in the long term | 22:06 |
| Svenstaro | I'm this short of just deciding for myself and see who will follow. | 22:06 |
| pygi | Svenstaro: haven't we agreed that you'll wait for a week and a half? :P | 22:06 |
| nubae | and that allows u to build packages for any distro and any plaform including arm by just uploading a spec file | 22:06 |
| Svenstaro | pygi, yes :( | 22:06 |
| nubae | I'm here, but won't touch anything, not even my fatclient script until I see some real action | 22:06 |
| pygi | Svenstaro: thanks :) | 22:07 |
| nubae | thats my position | 22:07 |
| nubae | I work with opensuse-edu for now | 22:07 |
| Svenstaro | From what I get to hear all around, everybody is waiting for the next person to actually get the hands dirty. | 22:07 |
| pygi | Svenstaro: not true | 22:07 |
| Svenstaro | Should we decide so, I'll happily be the person to throw the first stone here. | 22:08 |
| Svenstaro | I really think we should get the LTSP thing straight. It will be the hardest goal, so a workstation might be a better approach at first but that is a lot less appealing. | 22:09 |
| pygi | Svenstaro: I agree, but we should take the iterative approach | 22:09 |
| pygi | we can't change years of nothingg to something in a few days | 22:10 |
| Svenstaro | pygi, that's probably right. You mean start with the smallest problem? | 22:10 |
| pygi | Svenstaro: yes, for now | 22:10 |
| pygi | first release will be a challenge, as we need the infrastructure setup, some rules and stuff | 22:10 |
| Svenstaro | That would be a theme based workstation approach in my book. | 22:10 |
| pygi | probably, yes | 22:11 |
| Svenstaro | By theme I of course mean physics, chemistry, biology, etc. | 22:11 |
| pygi | I'm not sure about you, but I think DVD approach would be way better too | 22:12 |
| Svenstaro | Of course it is. | 22:12 |
| Svenstaro | Honestly, and that might sound cruel, I don't care too much about people without DVD drives at this point :/ | 22:12 |
| Svenstaro | The people who consider having a lab with LTSP clients would have a DVD drive. | 22:13 |
| Svenstaro | There should be a CD version but mainly for installing. | 22:13 |
| pygi | Svenstaro: I agree | 22:13 |
| Svenstaro | Bye everyone, talk again tomorrow. | 22:57 |
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