[15:56] <Svenstaro> Anybody alive in here at all?
[18:35] <bencrisford_> hey
[18:55] <Svenstaro> Anybody alive in here at all?
[18:58] <bencrisford_> HI
[18:58] <bencrisford_> im alive :D svenstaro :)
[18:58] <Svenstaro> Uh hi there.
[18:59] <Svenstaro> I'll just make my own Edubuntu now. I'm sick of the uncertainity and silence.
[18:59] <bencrisford_> lol
[18:59] <Svenstaro> I really wanna create a distro suited for schools, not just some random apps put into a LTSP.
[18:59] <bencrisford_> dont leave us!
[19:00] <bencrisford_> work on edubuntu
[19:00] <bencrisford_> why not help me with eskole?
[19:00] <Svenstaro> Well I wanna, but if Cannocial is gonna keep quite I'll make my own.
[19:00] <Svenstaro> What's that?
[19:00] <bencrisford_> http://dev.abruptus.dyndns.org/projects/eskole
[19:00] <bencrisford_> s'gonna rock! :P
[19:01] <bencrisford_> but we're gonna push and get edubuntu back up and running
[19:01] <bencrisford_> get some fresh peeps
[19:01] <bencrisford_> and the old'uns working
[19:01] <bencrisford_> we were gonna organise a meeting, and advertise it
[19:01] <Svenstaro> No use, we need some people who are willing to pull all-nighters for Edubuntu's sake or whatever the name is gonna be.
[19:01] <bencrisford_> im willing to :)
[19:02] <Svenstaro> It's about dedication. I'm certainly willing to do it.
[19:02] <Svenstaro> I know how to build distros so that's a plus I guess.
[19:03] <bencrisford_> well im willing to put alot in
[19:03] <bencrisford_> if a few others are
[19:03] <bencrisford_> then theres a driving force behind it
[19:03] <bencrisford_> and thats all it needs to get started
[19:03] <Svenstaro> You can't count on too many people I'm afraid.
[19:03] <bencrisford_> i can bring in fresh peope
[19:04] <bencrisford_> im sure you know people too
[19:04] <bencrisford_> thats the whole point of the meeting idea
[19:04] <bencrisford_> advertise it across mailing lists, forums etc.
[19:04] <bencrisford_> so we get fresh people, original people and everyone plans/ideas get heard
[19:04] <Svenstaro> Don't do that before there is a base.
[19:05] <Svenstaro> Edubuntu needs to be almost completely scratched.
[19:05] <Svenstaro> Too much is wrong right now.
[19:05] <bencrisford_> whaddya mean by base?
[19:05] <bencrisford_> and scratch?
[19:05] <Svenstaro> A base means there is a firm fundament that incorporates all the basic ideas behind the new Edubuntu.
[19:05] <Svenstaro> Scratch all that stands right now, it will only lead to the wrong directions. We need a fresh start.
[19:06] <Svenstaro> The current Edubuntu is direction-less.
[19:06] <bencrisford_> thats what this meeting idea is aboiut
[19:06] <bencrisford_> a fresh start
[19:06] <bencrisford_> a brainstorm
[19:06] <Svenstaro> Yes, well we better get together soon then.
[19:07] <Svenstaro> Is there a mailing list except for the official Edubuntu one for this?
[19:07] <bencrisford_> edubuntu-devel?
[19:09] <Svenstaro> Is that one actuall alive?
[19:11] <Nubae> its kind of alive
[19:11] <Nubae> but we need some real fresh blood
[19:11] <Nubae> or it will be dead come next release
[19:14] <Svenstaro> I'll start a thread on edubuntu-devel. I hope I get some responses. I am actually quite fast in hacking something workable together if that's what it takes.
[19:14] <Svenstaro> It's time for the revolution, finally...
[19:32] <Nubae> Svenstaro: it is indeed, nice to see that kind of enthusiasm, many of us here are just sceptical at this point, a revolution is gonna be required
[19:32] <Nubae> Svenstaro: u should talk to Laserjock if u really want to start hacking/packaging/maintaining/triaging
[19:33] <Svenstaro> Frankly I don't care. If people are too stubborn to drop what went wrong just because it was hard work once, I'll just take my direction. I don't mean to say that I don't want to cooperate, quite the opposite actually, but I *really* think a semi-fresh start is required.
[19:33] <Svenstaro> By semi-fresh I mean we might as well use Alternate's LTSP and that's about it.
[19:34] <Nubae> yeah, I agree :-) still communicate with Laserjock, he's really been doing edubuntu by himself for the last 2-3 release cycles
[19:35] <Svenstaro> Does he check the lists?
[19:50] <Nubae> yeah he does
[19:50] <Nubae> but u can contact him directly too
[19:51] <Nubae> laserjock at ubuntu.com I believe
[20:17] <bencrisford_> hi again
[20:17] <bencrisford_> sorry my internet broke
[20:26] <bencrisford_> Svenstaro, Nubae: after I disconnected - did i miss anything
[20:27] <Svenstaro> We had a party and you were invited but didn't attend.
[20:30] <bencrisford_> :(
[20:30] <bencrisford_> :P
[20:44] <Svenstaro> Check yer mails
[20:54] <bencrisford_> ok :)
[20:54] <bencrisford_> Svenstaro:
[20:54]  * bencrisford_ has no new mails :(
[20:54] <Svenstaro> Check again
[20:55] <Svenstaro> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/edubuntu-devel/2009-May/002876.html
[20:55] <bencrisford_> lol ok
[20:58] <bencrisford_> i dnt get why i never got it :(
[20:58] <bencrisford_> got it :D
[21:04]  * bencrisford_ has replied svenstaro
[21:04]  * Svenstaro has received
[21:05]  * bencrisford_ smiles :)
[21:05] <Svenstaro> As I said, a name change is a last resort.
[21:06] <Svenstaro> nubae, check los mail0s
[21:07] <Ahmuck> Svenstaro: u here?
[21:08] <bencrisford_> Svenstaro: so you got my message? thats odd
[21:08] <Svenstaro> Ahmuck, of course.
[21:08] <Svenstaro> bencrisford_, why?
[21:08] <Ahmuck> Svenstaro: i'm dumping ubuntu ltsp on the first of june
[21:08] <bencrisford_> svenstaro: dw, i just got told it didnt work :/
[21:09] <Ahmuck> there are issues that need to be addressed before ubuntu ltsp will work in edubuntu
[21:09] <Svenstaro> Ahmuck, so you are the Edubuntu maintainer?
[21:09] <Svenstaro> Or rather, Ubuntu LTSP?
[21:09] <Ahmuck> define maintainer
[21:09] <Svenstaro> Person who takes care of stuff :D
[21:10] <Ahmuck> locally yes, for ubuntu, no
[21:10] <bencrisford_> the look-after-er Ahmuk :P
[21:11] <Ahmuck> local school districts are getting citrix (ms) and ms office, etc. for free
[21:11] <bencrisford_> Svenstaro: Ugh!  Whaddya make of this, i could post to the list fine the other day: http://pastebin.com/m657ddbc2
[21:11] <Svenstaro> Oh dear
[21:11] <Svenstaro> Ahmuck, where is that?
[21:11] <Ahmuck> part of the reason i've decided to dump it, because i'm to busy and don't have time to train somebody through ltsp and it's problems
[21:11] <Ahmuck> 1. need gui tools
[21:12] <Ahmuck> 2. firefox keeps crashing
[21:12] <Ahmuck> 3. need tools that allow admin globally as well as fine grained per user
[21:12] <Ahmuck> 4. messages, etc. are broadcast to everyone ... printing, etc.
[21:13] <Ahmuck> 5. user changes sound and everybodys sound changes, etc.
[21:13] <Ahmuck> i've run into a host of issues with ltsp on a recent upgrade.  it's not something i'd be willing to risk employment deploying.  with ms a least you have someone to blame
[21:15] <Ahmuck> if edubuntu want's to make a go at it, they need programming support to create tools that teachers can do simple things with to be effective
[21:16] <Svenstaro> Heh. Well, this kind of was my point as well.
[21:16] <Ahmuck> i'd even go so far to say, specify hardware
[21:16] <Ahmuck> i'm still interested in it, but it's got problems
[21:16] <bencrisford_> what kind of programming support?
[21:16] <Ahmuck> and programming support needs to listen to users
[21:17] <Ahmuck> someone to program gui interfaces.  the local high school typing teacher is not going to open a command line to add a user
[21:17] <Svenstaro> Exactly my thoughts.
[21:17] <bencrisford_> what exactly is ltsp?
[21:17] <Svenstaro> And a gui for that is easy enough. For starters, it could be done with zenity and some cheesy bash scripting
[21:17] <bencrisford_> (soz for the noob questions im new round here :P)
[21:17] <Ahmuck> another very important feature is a default wine configuration and some tested windows apps that can be used in edbuntu
[21:18] <pygi> ok, what are you talking about?
[21:18] <Ahmuck> linux terminal server project
[21:18] <pygi> still the same old forking edubuntu? :)
[21:18] <Ahmuck> no offence, but forking it would do 2 things.  either create something that worked, or put a fire under some people so that edubuntu worked well
[21:19] <Ahmuck> bbl
[21:19] <pygi> I am not necessarily against it, just asking
[21:19] <pygi> I just came in :p
[21:20] <Svenstaro> pygi, I take it you read my mail?
[21:20] <pygi> Svenstaro: you've got the answer
[21:20] <bencrisford_> answer to what :P
[21:20]  * bencrisford_ confused :(
[21:20] <Ahmuck> we keep loosing school districts to citrix, and in a year, there won't be room for ubuntu ltsp or linux anywhere
[21:21] <pygi> bencrisford_: he asked about the future of edubuntu
[21:21] <bencrisford_> ah yeah
[21:21] <bencrisford_> we were discussing a meeting earlier
[21:21] <pygi> bencrisford_: lets wait with that
[21:21] <bencrisford_> yeah i agree
[21:22] <pygi> UDS is coming soon, at least me and Jonathan will be there to find out what's happening
[21:22] <bencrisford_> ah ok
[21:22] <Svenstaro> When is it?
[21:22] <alkisg> Ahmuck: have you actually used citrix? It was totally unusuable for my school, so we decided to use ltsp.
[21:22] <pygi> Svenstaro: next week
[21:22] <Ahmuck> people ask ltsp questions in edubuntu because many times in #ltsp they get refered somewhere else
[21:22] <Svenstaro> I see
[21:23] <Ahmuck> alkisg: i know it's unusable, but a 1200 seat high school just dropped all open source and went with citrix and ms office because someone offered it for free, turn key
[21:23] <Ahmuck> ur loosing market share, and it's not a battle you can afford to loose
[21:23] <alkisg> OK, "just" is the keyword here, I'd like to see them after trying it for 2-3 months...
[21:23] <Ahmuck> they have
[21:23] <Ahmuck> it's not "just".
[21:24] <alkisg> In 45 minutes of trying, I got *only one* student out of 8 to open excel remotely for 5 minutes. The rest of the time there were only problems.
[21:25] <alkisg> Apps kept crashing, response was really slow, logging in was slow, there was no desktop...
[21:25] <Svenstaro> Mh
[21:25] <Ahmuck> quote "
[21:25] <Ahmuck> buntu and LTSP on top of it. Any educational
[21:25] <Ahmuck> apps my schools want, I'll install for them. They need my help because
[21:25] <Ahmuck> they don't know how to do it. I want t
[21:25] <Ahmuck> " end quote
[21:26] <Ahmuck> alkisg: i'm crashing all over here with the new 9.04
[21:26] <Ahmuck> hplip crashes our system
[21:26] <alkisg> Well, I'm not. I haven't had a crash for the whole year
[21:26] <alkisg> 8.10 and then 9.04
[21:26] <Ahmuck> someone prints out something and it's broadcasted to the entire class
[21:26] <alkisg> In all the classes...
[21:27] <alkisg> Ahmuck: some of the problems you mentioned are easily solved, e.g. for the audio you just need to remove the users from the audio group
[21:27] <alkisg> Others can't be solved easily, sure, but I think it's better than citrix
[21:27] <Ahmuck> why?  if classmate a want's sound and classmate b doesn't shouldn't that be an option, easily done by opening the sound and moving the bar?
[21:28] <Ahmuck> again, i'm swamped with work and don't have time to visit the instructor who needs to change it
[21:28] <alkisg> Ahmuck: sure, if you remove them from the audio group you get what you're saying
[21:28] <alkisg> I.e. student A gets a different mixer from student B
[21:28] <Ahmuck> why are users by default in the audio group?
[21:28] <Ahmuck> that's the questions that should be asked
[21:29] <alkisg> Because gnome-system-tools is not LTSP aware... I agree with you here
[21:29] <Ahmuck> which comes back to user managment
[21:29] <Ahmuck> my primary #1 problem is making customizations for user managment
[21:29] <alkisg> But I prefer user/software management with linux than with windows, its *much* easier
[21:29] <Lns> Hey all
[21:29] <alkisg> ...and I've been programming windows for the last 17 years
[21:30] <alkisg> Hey Lns
[21:30] <Lns> Ahmuck: IMHO you should *not* be using Jaunty in a production environment, especially trying to tie it into LTSP and other bits!
[21:30] <Lns> That's akin to using Windows 7 on all your machines right now
[21:31] <Lns> You have to expect it to break. It's only been out for a little bit.
[21:32] <Ahmuck> using 8.10 was better, but still had issues
[21:32] <pygi> Ahmuck: I am one of the original authors of Edubuntu Cookbook
[21:32] <Lns> Ahmuck: right. I'm still using 8.04 LTS at all my sites, and it's bulletproof.
[21:33] <pygi> and the problem is that while everything was slightly dying, so did all of the original authors left the community
[21:34] <Ahmuck> from a edubuntu ltsp, we need ... a central server, user managment, personlized profiles for apps, ie .firefox - bookmarks, etc.  global managment for apps, ie firefox addons, security, downloads, wallpapers,
[21:34] <Ahmuck> and pre-configured wine
[21:34] <Lns> Ahmuck: Edubuntu != LTSP
[21:34] <Ahmuck> *shrugs* i agree
[21:35] <alkisg> Ahmuck: and do you get those with citrix?!!! Personalized profiles for apps?
[21:35] <Ahmuck> and drop in the ltsp room and if it's ubuntu specific i get the same response
[21:35] <Ahmuck> ltsp != ubuntu
[21:35] <Lns> you're right, it's not.
[21:35] <Ahmuck> alkisg: don't know.  the school calls a local it company to manage it
[21:36] <Lns> Ahmuck: All of these things work together in a software ecosystem. No one project leads all of them.
[21:36] <Ahmuck> there are no local it linux companies.  we did have a local company that brought in a linux admin to set some servers and ie up, but he resigned after it was done, leaving the company stuck with no one to run it
[21:36] <Lns> Ahmuck: where are you located?
[21:37] <Ahmuck> in a community of 1200, with a company that produces products globally, (they are located here for "cheap" labor) imagine the impression that was left when that happened
[21:37] <Ahmuck> anyhow, i'll bbl.  feel free to msg me
[21:38] <Svenstaro> Oh dear, I sparked quite some conversation there. Good though.
[21:38] <Svenstaro> I hate seeing projects die by *not* talking about them.
[21:38] <Lns> exactly.
[21:39] <Svenstaro> Still there seems to be some controversy about Edubuntu's new direction, which is a good thing IMO.
[21:39] <Svenstaro> Personally, I want it to be equally suited for LTSP purposes as for workstation environemnts.
[21:39] <pygi> Svenstaro: how would you contribute to the new Edubuntu? :)
[21:39] <Lns> Svenstaro: define "it" specifically. :)
[21:40] <alkisg> Svenstaro: I totally agree with your email, and I'll try to help in the summer when I have some free time.
[21:40] <Svenstaro> pygi, I would even start up a new distro if required. I have a decent bit of Linux knowledge to pull off the basics. I just want to get somethign going at all so others can join in.
[21:40] <Svenstaro> Lns, it, the new Edubuntu.
[21:41] <Lns> Svenstaro: define "the new Edubuntu"
[21:41] <pygi> Svenstaro: you certainly won't have to do it alone
[21:41] <pygi> if it'll happen
[21:41] <Lns> I think a distribution is completely overkill
[21:41] <pygi> Lns: why so?
[21:41] <Svenstaro> Lns, the Edubuntu that the old (current) Edubuntu is going to become after we decide on what it should become. Yes, that was recursive but what I said was my own humble opinion only :)
[21:41] <Lns> pygi: what is the benefit?
[21:42] <Svenstaro> pygi, just saying, I'd be willing to invest substantial time.
[21:42] <Lns> Svenstaro: hahaha ;)
[21:42] <nubae> Svenstaro: nice post
[21:42] <Lns> So we're stuck at the same place we were at about 3 months ago..we don't really *know* what Edubuntu is
[21:43] <pygi> Lns: we'll decide what Edubuntu is after we know the current state of it
[21:43] <Svenstaro> For starters, I think Edubuntu should lose the sense of filling a general role. It isn't for that stuff.
[21:43] <nubae> the problem is other distros are running circles around edubuntu now
[21:43] <pygi> Svenstaro: have I already asked you if you know py?
[21:43] <Svenstaro> pygi, py...thon?
[21:43] <pygi> yes
[21:43] <nubae> I'm working mostly with opensuse-edu, and I can tell you honestly that it makes edubuntu look laughable
[21:43] <Svenstaro> Of course I do, I give after school lessons on it.
[21:44] <nubae> part of that is because of the freedom given to developers to make it what they want it to be
[21:44] <Lns> nubae: what's the diff between the two projects?
[21:44] <nubae> edubuntu is restricted in that sense
[21:44] <pygi> Svenstaro: that's good
[21:44] <nubae> and will not change till that restriction is gone
[21:44] <nubae> Lns: go and install an opensuse-edu live dvd and see for yourself
[21:44] <Lns> nubae: is opensuse-edu its own dist?
[21:45] <nubae> just one example is Sugar, which is an icon on the desktop and launches, works and every activity within it works and is the latest
[21:45] <nubae> yes it is
[21:45] <nubae> and in my opinion I agree, edubuntu has failed there
[21:45] <nubae> all the other -edu addons are distros in and of themselves
[21:46] <nubae> opensuse-edu has 2 gigs of educational content
[21:46] <nubae> all of it works, all of it amazing stuff
[21:46] <nubae> everything is gui installabale and managable
[21:46] <Lns> nubae: is it open source? Can we integrate it ?
[21:46] <nubae> or u can use the command line if you prefer
[21:46] <nubae> everything is open source yes
[21:46] <nubae> there is something called opensuse studio
[21:46] <nubae> I believe I mentioned this once before
[21:47] <nubae> you can go in and pick and choose components and then create your own iso
[21:47] <nubae> thats then writable to cd, dvd, usb or whatever
[21:47] <Lns> IMHO that is all pretty redundant. Why would you need all of that?
[21:47] <Lns> ease of installation?
[21:47] <nubae> about 2 things to click on and its installed
[21:47] <nubae> ltsp just works
[21:48] <nubae> and is easily managable
[21:48] <nubae> ldap just works
[21:48] <Svenstaro> How does K12 compare, by the way?
[21:48] <nubae> samba just works
[21:48] <nubae> sugar, which is my area, just works
[21:48] <Lns> nubae: doesn't all of this stuff 'just work' with ubuntu?? I haven't had issues with installing/managing LTSP at all for a long time.
[21:48] <nubae> in ubuntu sugar is stuck at 0.82 and has no chance of developing due to debian policy
[21:48] <nubae> heh, no
[21:48] <Lns> All of the GUI apps that come with Ubuntu work fine with LTSP, LTSP really doesn't matter
[21:49] <nubae> ldap doesnt just work on ubuntu
[21:49] <nubae> ltsp is about the only thing
[21:49] <Lns> i agree, ldap would be nice
[21:49] <nubae> have u seen the jaunty complaints?
[21:49] <Svenstaro> So it seems most people here agree that Edubuntu currently just sucks more than a black hole :D
[21:49]  * Lns sihgs
[21:49] <Lns> jaunty, imho, is still beta. you can't expect things to 'just work' with a version that just came out.
[21:50] <nubae> unless something really drastic happens, I'm no longer interested in development on this platform, and I know many others feel the same
[21:50] <nubae> jaunty is RELEASED
[21:50] <nubae> its not beta
[21:50] <Lns> nubae: i said IMHO. Did Vista 'just work' when it came out?
[21:50] <nubae> check the topic
[21:50] <Lns> did XP, or 2k, or 98/95? no
[21:50] <nubae> are we really going to compare vista to ubuntu?
[21:51] <Lns> you're comparing openSuse to it,...
[21:51] <nubae> yeah I wouldn compare opensuse to vista either
[21:51] <Lns> i'd be willing to wager that opensuse has its fair share of issues with versions it releases at first...
[21:51] <nubae> but anyway, unless something changes with policy, ubuntu will stay as it is
[21:51] <nubae> its not what I'm talking about
[21:51] <nubae> I'm not mentioning the teething problems
[21:52] <nubae> ok... lets turn it around
[21:52] <nubae> whats good about edubuntu right now?
[21:52] <nubae> edubuntu, not ubuntu
[21:52] <Lns> umm, we have a community..that's about it ;)
[21:52] <nubae> ah, ok, well barely
[21:53] <nubae> You should step into the opensuse-edu channel and lurk and watch as the work happens, that is a community
[21:53] <nubae> actual work happens
[21:53] <nubae> daily
[21:53] <nubae> with many members contributing
[21:53] <nubae> it grows
[21:53] <alkisg> I agree with nubae here. I wish edubuntu had the same goals as opensuse-edu.
[21:53] <Svenstaro> I think schools except a longer release cycle than Edubuntu has. I actually thought about making the new 'Edubuntu' stand on Debian but I'm afraid of the licensing and Debian's strict policy on that stuff.
[21:53] <pygi> Svenstaro: be careful when saying that someone agrees that edubuntu sucks
[21:54] <pygi> most of the people like to talk, but when it comes to action most fail
[21:54] <pygi> so wait and see :)
[21:54] <nubae> pygi: +1
[21:54] <Lns> Svenstaro: you have a choice of release cycles - stick with the LTS versions, you'll be a happy camper
[21:54] <Svenstaro> Personally, I'm a big Arch Linux guy but I wouldn't use a rolling distro to base a school distro.
[21:54] <pygi> Svenstaro: I use archlinux right now too
[21:54] <nubae> heh, when hardy came out it was the worst release yet
[21:55] <nubae> partly because firefox 3 was still in beta
[21:55] <Svenstaro> pygi, I'm sorry :/ I'm actually quite eager to do *something*
[21:55] <nubae> but still
[21:55] <pygi> Svenstaro: I know you are, just saying from experience
[21:55] <nubae> there are many of us that have put our nose to the grind stone in here though
[21:55] <Lns> nubae: doesn't matter, nobody with any sense of experience rolls a dist. to a brand newly released version. That's just naive
[21:56] <nubae> but we've been forced to stay within very restrictive limits and the tools are not there to move forward efficiently or easily
[21:56] <Lns> not in an environment where so many people use it and depend on it daily, anyway.
[21:56] <nubae> and I just think its easier in opensuse-edu
[21:56] <pygi> I think schools don't want to upgrade every half year
[21:56] <Lns> pygi: i *know* my schools don't
[21:56] <nubae> well, its about building a product
[21:56] <nubae> and right now edubuntu is not a product
[21:56] <Lns> nubae: why is it about building a product?
[21:56] <nubae> its just this addon which really is just a bunch of programs
[21:57] <nubae> because thats what schools want
[21:57] <Lns> all of the pieces are there, why do you need something that says "Hey I'm educational ubuntu! use me!"
[21:57] <Svenstaro> I agree there, nubae
[21:57] <Lns> nubae: I disagree
[21:57] <Lns> schools want something that works. They want support, and they want someone to depend on to fix it when it breaks. They want to know how to use it.
[21:57] <nubae> well, thats why Novell has made a deal with HP to carry its educational distro on its laptops
[21:58] <pygi> Svenstaro: HedgeMage is a cool kiddo, she's one of the original authors of edubuntu cookbool
[21:58] <nubae> and why canonical has pretty much dropped any concept of education on ubuntu
[21:58] <Svenstaro> Hey HedgeMage :)
[21:58] <nubae> I've not heard a peep from an official ubuntu person in many months
[21:58] <HedgeMage> hi, guys :)
[21:58] <Lns> nubae: Ubuntu != Canonical
[21:58] <nubae> thats not the point
[21:58] <Lns> nubae: you're comparing opensuse/novell to ubuntu/canonical. it's not the same
[21:58] <pygi> Lns: if we went forward with something new, I know of at least two companies willing to do support
[21:59] <Lns> pygi: you know 3, you mean. ;)
[21:59] <nubae> why is that not the same?
[21:59] <pygi> Lns: what's the third one?
[21:59]  * Lns raises hand
[21:59] <nubae> Lns company
[21:59] <pygi> Lns: :P
[21:59] <nubae> hell I would too
[21:59] <HedgeMage> :)
[21:59] <Svenstaro> Is Scott in herE?
[22:00] <nubae> but right now, we're rolling out opensuse-edu, running the latest sugar with kiwi-ltsp
[22:00] <Svenstaro> Who just replied to mah mail?
[22:00] <Lns> nubae: it's not the same because canonical obviously doesn't care much for edubuntu, but we stand anyway
[22:00] <nubae> ah yes, there u are right
[22:00] <nubae> scott is a serious contributor to LTSP and edubuntu, but like others I believe he lost faith
[22:00] <nubae> he now hangs on the ltsp channel
[22:01] <nubae> dont know if he's even in here
[22:01] <nubae> he's not
[22:01] <nubae> sigh...
[22:01] <nubae> this just makes me so sad
[22:01] <Lns> we lost a lot of ppl because edubuntu used to mean easy ltsp installation.
[22:01] <nubae> its like watching a flame go out
[22:01] <nubae> yep edubuntu should be a distro
[22:01] <Lns> nubae: doesn't mean we can't use different fuel
[22:02] <Lns> nubae: yep? who are you responding to?
[22:02] <nubae> u
[22:03] <nubae> easy ltsp installation = edubuntu as a distro
[22:03] <Lns> I'll bbl, have a meeting
[22:04] <Svenstaro> So many conflicting opinions again. The people who worked on Edubuntu for long say "Fix it up", I say decide on a direction (for now!) and excel in that direction before tackling new ones, others say just let it die.
[22:05] <pygi> Svenstaro: here's the thing
[22:05] <Svenstaro> Also, making a bootable ISO, really isn't all that hard.
[22:05] <pygi> we know we need to do something
[22:05] <pygi> and we'll do it
[22:05] <Svenstaro> I'm building another distro right now and it really isn't all that hard, just takes time.
[22:05] <pygi> Svenstaro: we'll have to decide what direction to go, and as always not everyone will like it
[22:06] <nubae> its actually even easier if the tools are available... opensuse studio I'm not sure if its gpl or not, but open build service is
[22:06] <pygi> but the point is to create a healthy community in the long term
[22:06] <Svenstaro> I'm this short of just deciding for myself and see who will follow.
[22:06] <pygi> Svenstaro: haven't we agreed that you'll wait for a week and a half? :P
[22:06] <nubae> and that allows u to build packages for any distro and any plaform including arm by just uploading a spec file
[22:06] <Svenstaro> pygi, yes :(
[22:06] <nubae> I'm here, but won't touch anything, not even my fatclient script until I see some real action
[22:07] <pygi> Svenstaro: thanks :)
[22:07] <nubae> thats my position
[22:07] <nubae> I work with opensuse-edu for now
[22:07] <Svenstaro> From what I get to hear all around, everybody is waiting for the next person to actually get the hands dirty.
[22:07] <pygi> Svenstaro: not true
[22:08] <Svenstaro> Should we decide so, I'll happily be the person to throw the first stone here.
[22:09] <Svenstaro> I really think we should get the LTSP thing straight. It will be the hardest goal, so a workstation might be a better approach at first but that is a lot less appealing.
[22:09] <pygi> Svenstaro: I agree, but we should take the iterative approach
[22:10] <pygi> we can't change years of nothingg to something in a few days
[22:10] <Svenstaro> pygi, that's probably right. You mean start with the smallest problem?
[22:10] <pygi> Svenstaro: yes, for now
[22:10] <pygi> first release will be a challenge, as we need the infrastructure setup, some rules and stuff
[22:10] <Svenstaro> That would be a theme based workstation approach in my book.
[22:11] <pygi> probably, yes
[22:11] <Svenstaro> By theme I of course mean physics, chemistry, biology, etc.
[22:12] <pygi> I'm not sure about you, but I think DVD approach would be way better too
[22:12] <Svenstaro> Of course it is.
[22:12] <Svenstaro> Honestly, and that might sound cruel, I don't care too much about people without DVD drives at this point :/
[22:13] <Svenstaro> The people who consider having a lab with LTSP clients would have a DVD drive.
[22:13] <Svenstaro> There should be a CD version but mainly for installing.
[22:13] <pygi> Svenstaro: I agree
[22:57] <Svenstaro> Bye everyone, talk again tomorrow.