[00:54] <cprofitt> 7 minutes until meeting of #ubuntu-learning
[00:59] <montel> cprofitt: what is that?
[00:59] <pleia2> montel: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning
[00:59] <cprofitt> 1 minute until meeting
[01:00] <montel> 45 sec till meeting
[01:00] <montel> lol
[01:00] <cprofitt> #startmeeting
[01:00] <MootBot> Meeting started at 19:00. The chair is cprofitt.
[01:00] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[01:00] <cprofitt> [TOPIC] Welcome
[01:00] <MootBot> New Topic:  Welcome
[01:00] <cprofitt> Hello everyone...
[01:00] <cprofitt> roll call please
[01:00]  * cprofitt here
[01:00]  * pleia2 here
[01:01]  * montel here
[01:01] <cprofitt> ok... well lets get rolling... if you come in late please just say here.
[01:01] <bodhi_zazen> here :)
[01:01] <cprofitt> [TOPIC] Licensing
[01:01] <MootBot> New Topic:  Licensing
[01:02] <cprofitt> doc is not here...
[01:02] <cprofitt> but the topic is still valid...
[01:02] <doctormo> Aye aye
[01:02] <cprofitt> ah... here he is...
[01:02] <cprofitt> your up - licensing doctormo
[01:02] <doctormo> Thanks for the prod pleia2
[01:02] <pleia2> np :)
[01:03] <doctormo> I propose that we use CC-BY-SA licenses for anything created inside of the project and restrict the use of derivitive sources with licenses more restrictive than that.
[01:04] <cprofitt> I am not following that doctormo
[01:04] <pleia2> what are our specific concerns WRT people taking content?
[01:04] <cprofitt> what do you mean by the second part of that...
[01:04] <doctormo> I recommend commercial use be made possible, even promotted and I would recommend not using CC-NC sources. Although this doesn't apply to linked material.
[01:04] <cprofitt> I agree on not using NC
[01:05] <doctormo> cprofitt: This may be contentius because it means we can't use the offical desktop manual from Canonical.
[01:05] <cprofitt> because they license it differently?
[01:06] <pleia2> I think that would be unfortunate
[01:06] <bodhi_zazen> why can we not user the official desktop manual ?
[01:06] <cprofitt> I would like to explore the why we can not...
[01:06] <bodhi_zazen> is the content on your site not separate ?
[01:07] <cprofitt> How is the official manual licensed?
[01:07] <bodhi_zazen> I think liscencing is something well worth discussing , as in say we link to other pages ?
[01:08] <cprofitt> the manual is [TOPIC]
[01:08] <cprofitt> the manual is BY-NC-SA
[01:08] <cprofitt> I think we have to preserve the license of the original content holder...
[01:08] <cprofitt> we can not alter it.
[01:08] <doctormo> correct
[01:09] <doctormo> We will not be allowed to use our own dervivitive works, based on that, in a commercial setting (which may be unfortunatly broad)
[01:09] <bodhi_zazen> link to various options ?
[01:09] <cprofitt> is there a way for us to link to it... as a reference manual...
[01:09] <doctormo> cprofitt: linking is fine, we don't need to agree to the license to link.
[01:09] <cprofitt> So we do not derive anything from it...
[01:09] <cprofitt> we just tell people to go read it...
[01:10] <cprofitt> make our own...
[01:10] <doctormo> correct, and any other materials that are restricted where we can't get clear re-licensing.
[01:10] <cprofitt> or make that one course comply with BY-NC-AA
[01:10] <cprofitt> ok...
[01:10] <cprofitt> everyone understand that legal issue?
[01:10] <bodhi_zazen> no :)
[01:10] <doctormo> It would have been good to have greg-g in here to talk about it
[01:10] <pleia2> I nudged him, he doesn't appear to be around
[01:11] <bodhi_zazen> I did not prep for this discussion
[01:11] <cprofitt> ok... well... I think we need to get advice from greg-g on how restricted we are with using materials in our course
[01:11] <cprofitt> if we are linking to them and not coping them and putting them in the course
[01:12] <cprofitt> does everyone agree we need to have this topic taken as an action item with greg-g?
[01:12] <bodhi_zazen> Well, is copy not plagiarism ?
[01:12] <pleia2> cprofitt: +1
[01:12] <bodhi_zazen> we need permission on the contents we link or "copy"
[01:12] <cprofitt> I do not think we need permission to link bodhi_zazen, but we would need permission to copy or derive work from
[01:13] <cprofitt> and the real question is - if a course using that as a reference is a derivative work...
[01:13] <cprofitt> I would think not
[01:13] <bodhi_zazen> well, link no
[01:13] <cprofitt> but we should ask greg-g
[01:13] <bodhi_zazen> but what about displaying the contents of say a wiki page ?
[01:14] <cprofitt> [ACTION] cprofitt - ask greg-g about restricted license reference material linked too
[01:14] <MootBot> ACTION received:  cprofitt - ask greg-g about restricted license reference material linked too
[01:14] <cprofitt> that would depend on the license of the wiki page bodhi_zazen
[01:14] <cprofitt> if we copy it in to Moodle then I would imagine it would not be allowed if it were protected
[01:14] <montel> cprofitt: i pinged greg-g, he is in my LoCo
[01:14] <cprofitt> [TOPIC] Confirm Wording of Wiki Page goal is correct (changed to remove focus on irc classrooms.
[01:14] <MootBot> New Topic:  Confirm Wording of Wiki Page goal is correct (changed to remove focus on irc classrooms.
[01:15] <cprofitt> You are up again doctormo
[01:15] <doctormo> Aye
[01:15] <doctormo> Hang on I was just caught up in something
[01:15] <cprofitt> k
[01:16] <doctormo> OK, one thing we need to vote on
[01:16] <cprofitt> I think the goal stated on the frontpage is still not reflective of what the group decided last meeting
[01:16] <doctormo> before we go on
[01:16] <cprofitt> k- what?
[01:16] <bodhi_zazen> which page exactly , would you post a link so we are all on the same page ?
[01:17] <doctormo> Should we restrict our content, newly created and derived works to be CC-BY-SA or lower.
[01:17] <doctormo> So new members know what their creations are going to have to be to get in
[01:17] <cprofitt> I am not ready to vote yet doctormo
[01:17] <Vantrax|Work> sorry for being late guys, hazzards of being at work
[01:17] <cprofitt> I would like to get information form greg-g
[01:17] <bodhi_zazen> +1 cprofitt
[01:17] <doctormo> cprofitt: hmm, ok, what is your deciding logic?
[01:18] <Vantrax|Work> the desktop course is not linkable from inside moodle due to it being in a big pdf file, as such we will need to replicate it, keeping the licencing
[01:18] <cprofitt> I would like to have a better understanding before we move to vote...
[01:18] <cprofitt> I think the CC-NY-SA is fine, but would like to get more from greg-g
[01:18] <pleia2> me too, I'm pretty clueless about licensing
[01:18] <Vantrax|Work> NY is?
[01:18] <cprofitt> My initial suggestion was CC-BY-SA
[01:18] <doctormo> NY?
[01:18] <bodhi_zazen> on topic ? - I think the working "avoid competition" could be better :p
[01:18] <cprofitt> but I am not a lawyer
[01:19] <cprofitt> slip of a key Vantrax
[01:19] <cprofitt> BY
[01:19] <Vantrax|Work> ahh
[01:19] <cprofitt> sorry...
[01:19] <cprofitt> stupid querty keyboard layout
[01:19] <cprofitt> qwerty actually
[01:19] <doctormo> Aye ok, next issue, wording
[01:19] <Vantrax|Work> bodhi_zazen, what would you replace it with
[01:19] <cprofitt> here are the goals that were added after last meeting -- https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning/goals
[01:20] <cprofitt> I think what we are really looking at is this -
[01:20] <cprofitt> Our initial goal is to provide four programs for the new user, the sysadmin, marketing, and a stream for someone who wants to contribute to Ubuntu. These idea's have been based on new user feedback, requests to the Ubuntu Forums Beginners Team, to the Classroom Team and to Physical LoCo Classrooms. Our proposed course programs can be found in the sections below.
[01:20] <cprofitt> from the front page - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning/
[01:20] <bodhi_zazen> something more along the lines of working with the Ubutnu community teams to ...
[01:21] <cprofitt> this was brought up last meeting - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning/Agenda/05092009
[01:21] <bodhi_zazen> I know there is a sense of "competition" and "duplication of effort" but could we try to rephrase it in a positive ?
[01:22] <pleia2> bodhi_zazen: collaboration is covered later in the description
[01:22] <cprofitt> I think our real goal is something simple...
[01:22] <bodhi_zazen> +1 on Our initial goal ...
[01:22] <cprofitt> to produce courses
[01:22] <cprofitt> to produce courses that make it easier for organizations and users to adopt Ubuntu as their OS
[01:22] <Vantrax|Work> that is the initial goal, but not the goal of the project
[01:22] <bodhi_zazen> bring collaboration to forefront and eliminate competition ?
[01:22] <bodhi_zazen> lol
[01:22] <Vantrax|Work> cp is right on that
[01:22] <Vantrax|Work> to make it easier and to reduce the attrition rate of new users
[01:22] <cprofitt> so we can either produce the courses ourselves or guide others in producing the courses
[01:23] <Vantrax|Work> that is the overarching goal
[01:23] <thewrath> i think producing the courses ourselves in teams would work
[01:24] <cprofitt> I think it could be a mix of both
[01:24] <bodhi_zazen> well , teaching to teach will help the LoCo :)
[01:24] <Vantrax|Work> The long term goal is to make it easier for organisations and users to adopt Ubuntu and reduce the current attrition rate for new users through better awareness and community education
[01:24] <Vantrax|Work> from by perspective
[01:24] <Vantrax|Work> my
[01:25] <Vantrax|Work> how the content is produced will vary based on who is contributing
[01:25] <cprofitt> Yeah... I like that Vantrax
[01:25] <thewrath> Vantrax +1
[01:25] <Vantrax|Work> MOTU seems reasonably happy to add material, as does some of the doc team
[01:25] <Vantrax|Work> any rewording needed on that as the goal statement?
[01:26] <cprofitt> Vantrax, can you update the goal as written on the front page of the wiki?
[01:26] <Vantrax|Work> doing it right now if there are no requests to reword it
[01:26] <cprofitt> I think just remove the long term from it..
[01:26] <cprofitt> no need for long term to be there
[01:27] <Vantrax|Work> im going to keep some of the other statement too, give me a second
[01:28] <Vantrax|Work> okies everyone re read the first two paragraphs again
[01:28] <greg-g> dangit, sorry everyone (if you're still here)
[01:28] <MTecknology> they're all here
[01:29] <bodhi_zazen> The intention of this program is to to provide an educational context (environment) ,  supplement official training program, and colaborate with existing projects (MOTU, doc, etc) ??
[01:29] <bodhi_zazen> ^^
[01:29] <cprofitt> um... what happened to the mission statement Vantrax ?
[01:29] <bodhi_zazen> suggestion
[01:29] <cprofitt> we agreed on the mission statement last time... now it is gone...
[01:29] <cprofitt> Our initial goal is to provide four programs for the new user, the sysadmin, marketing, and a stream for someone who wants to contribute to Ubuntu. These idea's have been based on new user feedback, requests to the Ubuntu Forums Beginners Team, to the Classroom Team and to Physical LoCo Classrooms. Our proposed course programs can be found in the sections below.
[01:29] <cprofitt> that was what I thought we were changing
[01:29] <pleia2> greg-g: we're going to cycle back to licensing if you could stick around for a few?
[01:30] <doctormo> bodhi_zazen: what is offical training programs?
[01:30] <Vantrax|Work> its still there
[01:30] <Vantrax|Work> canonical training
[01:30] <greg-g> pleia2: yes, definitely. I'll be here
[01:30] <cprofitt> The project's goals are to build and maintain an interactive learning environment(s) to support teaching all aspects of the Ubuntu Ecosystem.
[01:30] <bodhi_zazen> official Canonical Training
[01:30] <cprofitt> that is still there?
[01:30] <Vantrax|Work> its moved down into the second paragraph, that is a HOW statement, the first is a WHAT statement
[01:30] <bodhi_zazen> better cprofitt :)
[01:30] <doctormo> Vantrax|Work: I have no want to support such a thing, they would be unequal in partnership with them.
[01:30] <Vantrax|Work> so its moved with the rest of the HOW
[01:30] <cprofitt> that was already on the page...
[01:30] <bodhi_zazen> I like that better then 'avoid competition"
[01:30] <bodhi_zazen> lol
[01:31] <cprofitt> we need to move on... I will work on the goals...
[01:31] <pleia2> cprofitt: greg-g is here, if we could swing back to licensing for a few?
[01:31] <Vantrax|Work> doctormo we are not supporting their training, but we also will not be making our training into any sort of qualification
[01:31] <cprofitt> [TOPIC] Licensing
[01:31] <MootBot> New Topic:  Licensing
[01:31] <bodhi_zazen> I think this sentence needs help is all - "The intention of this program is to avoid competition with the existing official training program, and supplement existing community programs."
[01:31] <doctormo> Vantrax|Work: Sure, but make than damn clear, at the moment it reads like we're the slave arm of their materials.
[01:31] <greg-g> dpm
[01:32] <greg-g> don't let me change the topic :)
[01:32] <cprofitt> lets get our questions to greg-g
[01:32] <Vantrax|Work> doctormo, to the ubuntu-learning chan for a sec
[01:32] <cprofitt> and we can rework the intial few paragraphs of the wiki after the meeting
[01:32]  * mdeonte is montel
[01:33] <cprofitt> greg-g we are concerned about linking too items that are more restrictive than CC-BY-SA
[01:33] <bodhi_zazen> +1 cprofitt :)
[01:34] <cprofitt> what are the ramifications or concerns in our doing that...?
[01:34] <greg-g> cprofitt: more restrictive? can you give me an example?
[01:34] <cprofitt> CC-BY-NC-SA
[01:35] <cprofitt> or the license The official Ubuntu Handbook is using
[01:35] <greg-g> can you now define "linking" please :)
[01:35] <Vantrax|Work> that I would like, but commercial is not defined
[01:35] <thewrath> what is the official ubuntu handbook using?
[01:35] <greg-g> Vantrax|Work: that is the issue, in general, with NC, it isn't define anywher ein the license
[01:35] <Vantrax|Work> yes, i read through them all
[01:35] <cprofitt> BY-NC-SA
[01:35] <Vantrax|Work> was quite painful
[01:35] <greg-g> Vantrax|Work: :)
[01:35] <cprofitt> simple URL link in my mind greg-g
[01:36] <cprofitt> send them to the actual source of the content
[01:36] <greg-g> cprofitt: just linking to something else does not create a licensing issue
[01:36] <ScottK> CC-BY-NC-SA is not considered a Free license by Ubuntu
[01:36] <greg-g> ScottK: or many people (myself included) see: freedomdefined.org
[01:36] <cprofitt> ScottK, but Canonical is using that.
[01:36] <Vantrax|Work> cprofitt, we will end up by replicating some of the content from the desktop training course that is CC-BY-NC-SA too, but have permission to do so
[01:37] <ScottK> Right, Canonical's decisions on their commercial products aren't my measure of Freedom.
[01:37] <cprofitt> Vantrax, we do not have permission to repackage it though
[01:37] <cprofitt> just to use it
[01:37] <doctormo> Vantrax|Work: Eh/
[01:37] <greg-g> Vantrax|Work: good deal, will you then be able to re-license that content as BY-SA?
[01:37] <cprofitt> I want to produce ours with no NC
[01:37] <Vantrax|Work> cprofitt we can adapt it to fit into our model from what belinda said
[01:37] <cprofitt> just CC-BY-SA
[01:37] <ScottK> You need explicit permission to relicense then, not just use.
[01:37] <cprofitt> correct ScottK
[01:37] <greg-g> what ScottK said.
[01:37] <Vantrax|Work> and she is aware of the licence choice, but ill confirm
[01:37] <cprofitt> I think we need to visit that with Belinda again
[01:38] <Vantrax|Work> she knows that in its current form it cant really be used
[01:38] <cprofitt> greg-g, in writing not just irc correct?
[01:38] <Vantrax|Work> I needed to catch up with her again anyway
[01:38] <cprofitt> Vantrax, in its current form we could use it as we are non-commercial
[01:38] <greg-g> cprofitt: well, in writing (email) would be fine, something you could preserve just in case they go back on their word and sue you :)
[01:38] <cprofitt> but others using our derivative work... would be the issue
[01:39] <cprofitt> ok... thanks greg-g
[01:39] <greg-g> cprofitt: well, if you use their content in your work, and license the entire work under BY-SA, then no one else will have a problem unless they follow the terms of By-SA
[01:39] <greg-g> s/unless they/unless they don't/
[01:39] <cprofitt> right... but we have to get permission to relicense correct?
[01:39] <greg-g> correct
[01:39] <cprofitt> [TOPIC] Election of Board/Council - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning/Agenda
[01:39] <MootBot> New Topic:  Election of Board/Council - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning/Agenda
[01:40] <cprofitt> ok... last meeting we decided on five seats on the board... and no 'uber' leader position at this time
[01:40] <cprofitt> we have five nominees - are there any last minute nominations?
[01:40] <Vantrax|Work> ill talk to them about that this week
[01:41] <pleia2> Vantrax|Work: can you Cc: the mailing list?
[01:41] <bodhi_zazen> no uber leader ?
[01:41] <cprofitt> yes, that was decided on last meeting bodhi_zazen
[01:41] <pleia2> bodhi_zazen: no, we felt the interests of the project are too diverse for a primary leader at this time
[01:41] <cprofitt> last call for nominations
[01:42] <Vantrax|Work> pleia2, yes
[01:42] <Vantrax|Work> bodhi_zazen, the plan was to elect one from the board later
[01:42] <cprofitt> I will ask for a adoption of the board as nominated... if we do not get 50% approval we can do individual votes
[01:42] <cprofitt> [VOTE] Accept the board as the five currently nominated members
[01:42] <MootBot> Please vote on:  Accept the board as the five currently nominated members.
[01:42] <MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
[01:42] <MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
[01:43] <pleia2> +1
[01:43] <bodhi_zazen> Ah, :)
[01:43] <MootBot> +1 received from pleia2. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
[01:43] <doctormo> +1
[01:43] <MootBot> +1 received from doctormo. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
[01:43] <bodhi_zazen> 0
[01:43] <mdeonte> can i vote?
[01:43]  * bodhi_zazen does not fee he can vote for himself :)
[01:43] <doctormo> bodhi_zazen: you have to do +0
[01:43] <cprofitt> +1
[01:43] <MootBot> +1 received from cprofitt. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
[01:43] <bodhi_zazen> +0
[01:43] <Vantrax|Work> +0
[01:43] <MootBot> Abstention received from bodhi_zazen. 3 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 3
[01:43] <MootBot> Abstention received from Vantrax|Work. 3 for, 0 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 3
[01:43] <bodhi_zazen> +1 to the others though
[01:43] <mdeonte> can i vote
[01:43] <Vantrax|Work> if you with mdeonte
[01:43] <Vantrax|Work> wish
[01:43] <bodhi_zazen> I think yes mdeonte
[01:44] <mdeonte> +1
[01:44] <MootBot> +1 received from mdeonte. 4 for, 0 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 4
[01:44] <thewrath> +1
[01:44] <mdeonte> shweet
[01:44] <MootBot> +1 received from thewrath. 5 for, 0 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 5
[01:44] <cprofitt> [ENDVOTE]
[01:44] <MootBot> Final result is 5 for, 0 against. 2 abstained. Total: 5
[01:44] <cprofitt> ok... so the board is adopted as is
[01:45] <cprofitt> [AGREED] Board is Elizabeth Krumbach, BodhiZazen, Charles Profitt, MartinOwens, Matthew Lye
[01:45] <MootBot> AGREED received:  Board is Elizabeth Krumbach, BodhiZazen, Charles Profitt, MartinOwens, Matthew Lye
[01:45] <cprofitt> [TOPIC] Project Goals
[01:45] <MootBot> New Topic:  Project Goals
[01:45] <cprofitt> I think we hashed that out pretty well... but I want to point people to the page again --
[01:45] <cprofitt> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning/goals
[01:45] <cprofitt> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning/goals
[01:45] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning/goals
[01:46] <cprofitt> anything else to add Vantrax ?
[01:46] <Vantrax|Work> These are more in the way of project milestones
[01:46] <Vantrax|Work> which in themselves are goals I guess
[01:46] <bodhi_zazen> \0/
[01:46] <cprofitt> so perhaps we should reword it...
[01:46] <cprofitt> to milestones...
[01:46] <pleia2> hm, I think adding in "contacting existing programs" or somesuch would be good
[01:47] <thewrath> agreed cprofitt
[01:47] <Vantrax|Work> you called it milestones:P
[01:47] <bodhi_zazen> add - set up server :p
[01:47] <Vantrax|Work> good one pleia2
[01:47] <pleia2> we've already done some of it, but I think we need to cycle back through to make sure our communication is solid
[01:47] <bodhi_zazen> +1 pleia2
[01:47] <cprofitt> bodhi_zazen, that page is for everyone involved to add their 'goals' or 'milestones'
[01:47] <bodhi_zazen> and cycle and cycle ...
[01:47] <cprofitt> then we have to 'assign' some
[01:47] <pleia2> shall I add?
[01:47] <cprofitt> yes... please add what you want there...
[01:48] <Vantrax|Work> im adding atm for suggestions made
[01:48] <cprofitt> then we can adopt them at a future meeting
[01:48] <pleia2> k
[01:48] <cprofitt> [TOPIC] Rationale
[01:48] <MootBot> New Topic:  Rationale
[01:48] <cprofitt> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning/Rationale
[01:48] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning/Rationale
[01:48] <pleia2> everyone has pretty much said what I wanted to say for the rationale
[01:48] <cprofitt> That is another page in which we want people to add their ideas of Rationale for the project
[01:48] <cprofitt> in preparation for the CC meeting June 2nd
[01:49] <cprofitt> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning/Specification
[01:49] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning/Specification
[01:49] <cprofitt> that will contribute to making the specification
[01:49] <Vantrax|Work> Im going to be doing a project spec this week based on all of this
[01:49] <cprofitt> I will be eager to look at your draft Vantrax
[01:49] <cprofitt> then we can add it to the agenda for the next meeting
[01:49] <bodhi_zazen> me too :)
[01:50] <bodhi_zazen> poke me on IRC when ready :)
[01:50] <Vantrax|Work> I find people do better when they have something to tear appart:P
[01:50] <Vantrax|Work> so ill supply the poorly written bit to start with
[01:50] <cprofitt> Alright...
[01:50] <cprofitt> do not say that Vantrax your drafts are quite good...
[01:51] <cprofitt> and serve as a good starting point... it is always easier to nit than to create from scratch
[01:51] <Vantrax|Work> yeah, especially in a forum like this
[01:51] <cprofitt> [TOPIC] Meeting Time
[01:51] <MootBot> New Topic:  Meeting Time
[01:51] <cprofitt> how was this meeting time for everyone...?
[01:51] <cprofitt> informal +/- would work
[01:51] <cprofitt> +
[01:51] <bodhi_zazen> +++
[01:51] <pleia2> +
[01:52] <Vantrax|Work> its ok for me, but I am at work and might be late or have to duck away
[01:52] <bodhi_zazen> informal +
[01:52] <st33med> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++-+
[01:52] <Vantrax|Work> so how about / for me:P
[01:52] <pleia2> hehe
[01:52] <cprofitt> I understand that Vantrax - it was the only time everyone on the doodle poll selected
[01:52] <cprofitt> http://www.doodle.com/e4qemk8nuf2q5iye
[01:52] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://www.doodle.com/e4qemk8nuf2q5iye
[01:52] <doctormo> Oh I'm so dizzy, sorry guys if I've been a bit out of it. Damncold
[01:52] <Vantrax|Work> I know, thats why i agreed and put it as a possibility
[01:53] <cprofitt> no problem doctormo
[01:53] <st33med> Unfortunately, I had dinner out at Longhorns with my family, and I was unaware of the meeting time...
[01:53] <cprofitt> Thanks for attending everyone.
[01:53] <Vantrax|Work> thats ok st33med keep an eye on the wiki page
[01:53] <doctormo> +1 meeting time
[01:53] <cprofitt> I appreciate the effort everyone is putting in...
[01:54] <cprofitt> Vantrax, you have done a great job of putting up fleshy ideas for us to chew on...
[01:54]  * st33med is wheezing from the two lines he put it
[01:54] <MontelEdwards> +
[01:54] <Vantrax|Work> also next meeting we will be preparing the annoucement to be delivered after CC meeting
[01:54] <st33med> *in
[01:54] <cprofitt> I think we will focus on the CC meeting and set a date after the results of that meeting
[01:54] <cprofitt> #endmeeting
[01:54] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 19:54.
[01:54] <bodhi_zazen> oops - edited the goals page , lol
[01:55] <Vantrax|Work> at this rate it will likely take 2 meetings to get it sorted anyway:{
[01:55] <cprofitt> please take further discussion back to #ubuntu-learning
[01:56] <doctormo> time to sleep
[11:17] <gnomefreak> i guess meeting was postponed
[11:39] <sbc> gnomefreak: Guess so. Someone should update the fridge calendar to reflect the change.
[11:40] <gnomefreak> agreed, this is the first one i was able to make in over 5 months :(
[18:09] <mib_yn3hjajf> Hello.  Is this the kernel team meeting?
[20:00] <Arc> time for the loco council meeting?
[20:05] <cprofitt> Arc, I thought so based on the wiki...
[20:05] <cprofitt> 19-May-2009, 19:00 UTC
[20:05] <Arc> its 7:05pm UTC on May 19th
[20:05] <Arc> infocop411 seems to be here too
[20:07] <Arc> popey: ping?
[20:08] <Arc> all the other meetings today on the schedule seem to not have happened either
[20:10] <infocop411> I moved my item back, just got in the door, flight arrived late
[20:11] <Arc> infocop411: it appears that none of the council members are attending this meeting anyway
[20:11] <infocop411> plus our team has gotten some ground work in that may make it worth waiting
[20:12]  * Arc is here from New Hampshire LoCo, the only item on the agenda :-/
[20:12] <pleia2> UDS always messes up schedules a bit
[20:12] <Arc> UDS?
[20:12] <pleia2> ubuntu developers summit
[20:13] <infocop411> well in a way that's good for me, I'm tired from the flight & earlier than usual wake-up
[20:13] <Arc> ok so, since this meeting doesn't appear to be happening, should we send a mail to a mailing list instead?
[20:13] <pleia2> or just wait until the next meeting
[20:14] <pleia2> approval has to happen at a meeting anyway
[20:14] <infocop411> yea, someone will see it before the next meeting for sure
[20:14] <infocop411> & they can schedule it again
[20:17] <JanC> boredandblogging: ping?
[20:17] <juliux> i am here
[20:17] <boredandblogging> sorry I"m late
[20:17] <JanC> we're all late  ;)
[20:17] <juliux> but we are three;)
[20:18] <boredandblogging> awesome
[20:18] <juliux> looks like we have only one topic today
[20:19] <boredandblogging> Arc: ping
[20:19] <Arc> pong
[20:20] <boredandblogging> ok, lets do New Hampshire
[20:21] <Arc> im still raising our team leader who just went MIA, is she needed?
[20:22] <JanC> Arc: that's nikkiana ?
[20:23] <Arc> yes
[20:24] <JanC> I pinged her in #ubuntu-women, let's see if she's around
[20:24] <juliux> ok
[20:24] <Arc> i just called her, I think she may be on the phone with a client since it seemed to go straight to voicemail
[20:24] <Arc> she also has rythmbox paused according to her xmpp status
[20:25] <juliux> Arc: can you write something about your team?
[20:25] <Arc> beyond what's on the wiki?
[20:25] <juliux> a short introduction;)
[20:26] <Arc> well NH isn't a very densly populated state, almost all the populus is in one city (Manchester) where the loco is primarily centered around
[20:27] <Arc> individually a lot of us carry Ubuntu CDs around, my count is we've distributed about 70 jaunty cds so far
[20:27] <Arc> we've built good relations with our regional LUG, there's been some fear that we're going to overshadow them since our energy level is several times theirs
[20:29] <Arc> since most of us live near each other, we have in-person meetings on a semi monthly basis
[20:29] <Arc> when a meeting doesn't work out due to scheduling issues we touch base with each other frequently enough to take care of stuff like getting CDs burned/printed
[20:31] <Arc> because of our size, we're focusing on SFD 2009 and working on smaller projects until then such as working with the local "linux-friendly" ISP and working on getting a community themed remix together
[20:32] <JanC> do you have any contact with schools & universities etc.?
[20:33] <Arc> we've talked to a few librarians about remix resources
[20:34] <Arc> honestly the area that Ubuntu seems to really be taking root here is home users, we haven't seen a lot of interest from schools or universities
[20:35] <juliux> are the some notes from the meetings?
[20:36] <Arc> that may change as we work on the cloud computing initiative in manchester
[20:36] <Arc> we haven't been very good at writing up minutes since there hasn't been any contentious issues brought up in a few months
[20:37] <Arc> our budget has been nikki contributing $40 worth of CDRs and printer ink or me at the local print shop
[20:38] <juliux> Arc: what yout the releasparties? any more informations online? some pictures?
[20:38] <Arc> let me dig up nikki's flickr account, she's the one that takes photos
[20:40] <Arc> http://www.flickr.com/photos/nikkiana/sets/72157606308820965/
[20:41] <Arc> http://www.flickr.com/photos/nikkiana/sets/72157607400431972/
[20:43] <Arc> sorry she has a lot to dig through
[20:44] <Arc> she could find them easier
[20:44] <JanC> if I understand wikipedia correctly then 1/6th of the people in NH live in the metropolitan area around Manchester, do you have much contact with the other 5/6th of the population?  ツ
[20:44] <Arc> if you look at the launchpad you'll see the population distribution
[20:45] <Arc> mostly the I93 corridor through Concord
[20:47] <Arc> but I think its much more than 1/6th, all depending on what you consider to be Manchester area.  if you count a 30 mile radius, that likely is more than 2/3rds the state population
[20:47] <Arc> here something is "local" if you can get to it in an hour's drive.  the Manchester LUG chapter meets in Nashua for example, which is a half hour's drive
[20:48] <juliux> w 25
[20:49] <Arc> overall I think because of the massive outreach matt, broderick and I have been doing (including installing on people's systems ourselves) a vast majority of the Ubuntu users in the state are focused in the Manchester-Concord area
[20:50] <Arc> thanks to a local hispanic preacher, there's an entire neighborhood in manchester using pretty much just Ubuntu as I understand it
[20:51] <boredandblogging> Arc: think that kind of information would be great on the application
[20:51] <boredandblogging> I'd prefer to see more of a roadmap
[20:51] <Arc> well it's hard to tell what you're looking for exactly
[20:52] <Arc> what would you like to see on the roadmap?
[20:52] <boredandblogging> for example, the NH remix a bit more
[20:52] <boredandblogging> what is the purpose behind it?
[20:52] <boredandblogging> when do you expect it to come out?
[20:53] <boredandblogging> how are you getting involved with it?
[20:53] <Arc> ah.  the purpose is to really get our foot in the door with the local libraries and other community resources
[20:53] <boredandblogging> Arc: right, can you just put that on the application? and go into more detail with the other items?
[20:54] <boredandblogging> think we are having a hard time imagining all the work you guys have done
[20:54] <boredandblogging> since the application isn't detailed
[20:54] <JanC> Arc: and also an agenda/roadmap for the future
[20:54] <Arc> what specific items do you want detailed?
[20:55] <Arc> to be honest I'd like to focus my attention a bit on what's needed since there's so much work to be done in other areas of the LoCo, if I spent the time to detail everything, track down photos, etc it'd take 30, 40 hours of work that'd be better spent on other things
[20:56] <Arc> if you want to see photos of parties, I can dig those up.  if you want to see photos and details of us working with the local community, we can take those
[20:56] <Arc> but I really don't want to see the application process become a major task item of it's own
[20:57] <JanC> Arc: if we have to dig everything up it takes us 20 hours too  ;)
[20:57] <Arc> do you really need to see everything or what key things are you looking for?
[20:59] <Arc> here's an example, we're going to actually be talking to two local schools in the next month with a "sales pitch" for joining the local community network for using the local cloud with Ubuntu - is that interesting to you?
[21:00] <Arc> the local network is a major project we're involved in right now, more than half the network volunteers are loco members
[21:01] <Arc> or do you want us to put together a google map of the Ubuntu users we've worked with in the state
[21:01] <JanC> I think what we like to seeis a list of what you have done with a little bit of explanation (link to photos are nice if available) + list of what you plan to do (including links to mails on the list or wiki pages or whatever you use to plan such things)
[21:04] <Arc> that would include documenting things on the wiki to begin with, which we haven't done very much of lately
[21:06] <Arc> but are there any items in either the group of what we've done or what we're planning to do that you want documented well, or am I correct in understanding that it really doesn't matter what we do as long as we're documenting doing something?
[21:08] <JanC> I'd say we like to see different things documented, e.g. it's not important that *all* internal meetings are documented, but try to show off all the type of things you're doing and plan to do
[21:09] <Arc> I'm asking because I thought we did that with the current application
[21:11] <boredandblogging> Arc: if you don't document on the wiki, where do you document?
[21:12] <Arc> boredandblogging: we don't generally document, we discuss and do
[21:12] <boredandblogging> ok
[21:12] <Arc> we spend enough time around each other..
[21:14] <Arc> I'm also a bit worried that asking for recognition is a waste of time, since other much larger LoCos have been denied repeatedly with activity levels we won't reach
[21:16] <JanC> Arc: in most cases that was either because of lack of documentation or because they had been inactive for almost a year until 5 months before applying or things like that
[21:17] <JanC> are you planning to have a booth at the NC-PC Computing trade show in Nashua again?
[21:17] <Arc> likely not, it was a bust as I understand it
[21:18] <JanC> a "bust" in what way?
[21:18] <JanC> and the other places you did similar things?
[21:18] <Arc> a lot of the "IT industry" in NH is heavily focused around Microsoft
[21:18] <JanC> that's true almost everywhere  ;)
[21:19] <Arc> I was one of the founders of IFSA (Ithaca Free Software Assoc) in NY, we had a very different experience with trade conferences
[21:20] <Arc> if we had infinite volunteer time we'd be everywhere :-)  but there's low hanging fruit with home users and, perhaps with Eucalyptus and Kharmic coming out, the local schools
[21:22] <JanC> maybe you can also recruit new volunteers with the preacher's (Ubuntu) "converts"?
[21:22] <boredandblogging> seems like we lost quorum
[21:23] <Arc> we're recruiting everywhere, the hispanic community is just one example
[21:24] <Arc> just this Sunday, talking to people at a local church, we met two Ubuntu users we previously had no idea about.  with our size, we're just throwing snowballs, and are often unaware of how large they grow until we see them rolling past
[21:25] <boredandblogging> Arc: I would like to ask NH to come back next month
[21:25] <boredandblogging> we don't have a quorum for a vote
[21:25] <JanC> anymore
[21:25] <Arc> boredandblogging: absolutely.  I didn't expect to get approved this month anyway
[21:25] <Arc> please just give some direction of what you're looking for us to document for next month
[21:26] <Arc> should I ask nikki to take more photos? should I focus on meeting minutes? do you want PDFs of our printed material?
[21:26] <Arc> do you want me to upload the template for the CD distribution "posters"?
[21:31] <JanC> just flesh it out a bit, and ask everybody in the team to help with describing/documenting the events they were/are involved with
[21:31] <JanC> it will also help the team in the future, or to show prospective members what you did already
[21:33] <JanC> and things like posters etc. would be nice of course (if they have a free license other LoCos might like to use them too)
[21:33] <Arc> they're freely licensed, it's just a bit of work to generalize them as templates
[21:34] <Arc> the posters im talking about are 1/4" thick paperboard boxes that hold 3-4 CDs and a small stack of business cards, designed to pin onto bulletin boards
[21:36] <Arc> ok so I guess a last question, are you more interested in well detailed examples of things we've done or a more complete bullet list
[21:37] <Arc> I guess what I'm trying to say is that we're less "event" based as "activity" based right now, the only real event we're planning right now is SFD09
[21:38] <Arc> but there's a lot of activities, that are not as easy to document
[21:40] <JanC> maybe you can give a couple of examples of every type of such activity?
[21:40] <Arc> sounds good
[21:40] <JanC> Arc: you can also always ping us outside the meeting
[21:41] <JanC> if you have questions or whatever
[21:41] <Arc> how about finer grained advice over the next month so we don't end up with a monthly "is this enough? - nope" cycle :-)
[21:42] <JanC> okay
[21:49] <Arc> ok thanks for your feedback so far :-)
[21:52] <juliux> Arc: you can also ask in #ubuntu-locoteams for some help
[22:01] <JanC> and other teams who seek approval can also ask beforehand there  ;)
[23:59] <bodhi_zazen> meeting time ?
[23:59] <paultag> Yup bodhi_zazen
[23:59] <jamesrfla> yeah it is time
[23:59] <Ash_R> yes bodhi_zazen