[00:37] <Ahmuck_> nubae: sugar labs == sugar ?
[01:17] <Ahmuck_> highvoltage: upstream issues solved via ltsp - sound, etc.  i need to work through ltsp?  on 8.10 it worked on 9.04 i lost it
[01:27] <Ahmuck_> nubae: is there a sugar package available for ubuntu?
[01:35] <LaserJock> Ahmuck: yes, they're in Ubuntu
[01:38] <Ahmuck_> i'd suggest picking a new name for sabayon if possible.  it's confusing with the linux distro
[01:46] <LaserJock> it's not ours to rename
[01:46] <LaserJock> it's a Gnome project
[01:46] <LaserJock> and existed before the linux distro even :-)
[01:47] <Ahmuck_> ah
[01:48] <Ahmuck_> i'm surprised they haven't laid claim to the name via trademark and forced saybayon Linux to change their name
[01:51] <LaserJock> well, there isn't much of a project left
[01:51] <LaserJock> so it'd be a bit weird
[02:00] <Ahmuck_> is stgraber the only one working on it?
[02:00] <LaserJock> on what?
[02:02] <Ahmuck_> saybayon
[02:02] <Ahmuck_> er, maybe not him
[02:03] <sbalneav> Ahmuck_: I'm working on it
[02:03] <sbalneav> I'm looking at their latest release now.
[02:03] <sbalneav> which they released, broken
[02:04] <sbalneav> They made a release that they freely admit doesn't work out of the box
[02:06] <sbalneav> http://mail.gnome.org/archives/sabayon-list/2009-March/msg00000.html
[02:06] <sbalneav> Please note that this release is KNOWN TO BE BROKEN.  At some point
[02:06] <sbalneav> Sabayon stopped detecting all the changes you do to files while editing
[02:06] <sbalneav> a user profile.  The result is that sabayon-2.25.0 saves mostly empty
[02:06] <sbalneav> user profiles.  Help in debugging this is much appreciated.
[02:07] <sbalneav> Sigh
[02:08] <Ahmuck_> i'd help debug it ... i need about a month to get things running here
[02:09] <Ahmuck_> actually let me re-phrase that
[02:09] <sbalneav> Well, I'm going to try creating an updated package for it, then figure out why it doesn't work
[02:09] <Ahmuck_> i'm going to drop back to a stable release of ltsp
[02:09] <Ahmuck_> then use virtual box to debug stuff in
[02:09] <sbalneav> Which are you running?
[02:10] <Ahmuck_> specifically i'm going to create a vm environment and then add packages and debug the packages as i go and create user docs
[02:10] <Ahmuck_> which means i'm in for the long haul
[02:10] <sbalneav> I guess my question is, what's NOT stable about LTSP for you?
[02:11] <Ahmuck_> currently i'm using freemind to organize my thoughts, but may find a wiki and host it and lay it out from there
[02:11] <Ahmuck_> volume control
[02:11] <Ahmuck_> user shuts off volume, it shuts down volume for me
[02:11] <Ahmuck_> web based flash apps
[02:12] <Ahmuck_> things like pbskids.org, etc
[02:12] <Ahmuck_> thankfully hplip was fixed in 9.04
[02:13] <Ahmuck_> system wide messages, yes, someone's pointed this out to me that i could fix something and i suppose all the typing i'm doing on irc could be devoted to getting it fixed, but by defualt, system wide messages shouldn't be showing up on every thin client.  what's printed, etc.
[02:13] <sbalneav> So one user changes their volume settings, and it affects everyone?
[02:13] <Ahmuck_> if need be, i can join ltsp channel and state the same
[02:13] <Ahmuck_> sbalneav: yep
[02:14] <Ahmuck_> though i've not tested it completely.  i'm really strapped for time right now
[02:14] <sbalneav> So am I.  You want help on or not?
[02:14] <sbalneav> \I'm here now, and willing to help
[02:15] <Ahmuck_> well, yes i need help, but i've got things i have to do right now :(
[02:15] <sbalneav> As for system wide messages, do you mean the notifier app?
[02:19] <Ahmuck_> hrm, i've not looked at it yet.  could be.  ie, HPLIP Device Status, ... printing (doc name).
[02:22] <Ahmuck_> i've not looked back, but someone mentioned a 400 page doc on ltsp/edubuntu ?
[02:30] <Ahmuck_> just looked at moodle.  it's interesting
[04:37] <Ahmuck_> sbalneav: volume slider bar does not work at all ... at the server ... i need to do more testing
[08:56] <nubae> Ahmuck though there is a package for sugar in Ubuntu, its older than molasses ;-)
[08:56] <Ahmuck_> is there a way to build from source?
[08:56]  * Ahmuck_ nudges nubae
[14:52] <sbalneav> Morning all
[16:50] <bencrisford1> Hey everyone :)
[17:35]  * bencrisford2 gonna get fixing edubuntu bugs!
[18:02] <Svenstaro> good luck brave one
[18:04] <bencrisford1> :P
[18:05]  * bencrisford1 gives up
[18:05] <bencrisford1> :(
[18:13] <nubae> sigh....
[18:44] <Ahmuck_> i forget, whose working on sayabon?
[18:45] <nubae> that would be sbalneav
[18:45] <nubae> Ahmuck_ so u are interested in Sugar eh? Can I introduce you to the sugar team? join #sugar
[18:46] <Ahmuck_> sbalneav: i'm interested in knowing if sayabon is worth saving and why it's worth saving.  i've heard it's overly complex and perhaps should be scraped in favor for something else
[18:59] <Ahmuck_> meeting today?
[19:00] <nubae> tomorrow I believe
[19:01] <sbalneav> Ahmuck_: Sabayon's definitely worth saving
[19:01] <sbalneav> It's not overly complex
[19:02] <sbalneav> and there *is* nothing else.
[19:02] <sbalneav> Sabayon simply pops up a "desktop in a window" and lets you customize it.
[19:02] <sbalneav> You can save that "desktop" as a profile that you can apply to users.
[19:02] <Ahmuck_> i've heard horror stories about the complexity of the code.  i wondered if it would be easier to write a basic module from srcatch, say python and gtk or qt and then allow managment plugin/addons similar to firefox
[19:03] <sbalneav> That's *exactly* what sabayon is.
[19:03] <sbalneav> It's written in python
[19:03] <sbalneav> has a plugin architechture
[19:04] <Ahmuck_> ah
[19:04] <Ahmuck_> see, i know nothing
[19:04]  * Ahmuck_ finds a something to crawl under
[19:04] <sbalneav> http://projects.gnome.org/sabayon/
[19:05] <sbalneav> We've got a broken wheel.
[19:05] <sbalneav> We just need to FIX the wheel we've got, not re-invent it. :)
[19:05] <sbalneav> IMHO anyway
[19:06] <sbalneav> I'm working on updating the package now to the 2.25 release of sabayon.
[19:06] <sbalneav> I
[19:06] <sbalneav> I'm going to try to figure out my notes, see if I can get it up to my ppa
[19:08] <sbalneav> There's also this spec:
[19:08] <sbalneav> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuUserManagement
[19:09] <sbalneav> Getting system-tools-backend "ldapified" is somewhat non-trivial
[19:09] <sbalneav> Here's the problem when you deal with ANYTHING ldap related
[19:09] <sbalneav> there's about 6.723749837x10^654 different ways to lay out your ldap directory
[19:10] <sbalneav> You can do a flat, "old style" method: i.e. cn=John Smith,o=Some Organization,c=ca
[19:11] <sbalneav> You can do the newer "dc" method: i.e. cn=John Smith,dc=legalaid,dc=mb,dc=ca
[19:12] <nubae> yeah, opensuse uses pre-set policies
[19:12] <sbalneav> You can also used the "somewhat" standard ou (organizational units) to group your entities, i.e. uid=sbalneav,ou=users,dc=legalaid,dc=mb,dc=ca
[19:12] <nubae> standards for samba I believe
[19:12] <nubae> right
[19:12] <sbalneav> riiiiiiiiiight
[19:12] <sbalneav> Key here is "pre-set policies"
[19:12] <sbalneav> How skolelinux did(does) it, is they have two installation modes
[19:13] <sbalneav> "desktop" and "directory server"
[19:13] <sbalneav> In directory server mode, they set you up an ldap server
[19:13] <sbalneav> they don't provide AD integration
[19:13] <sbalneav> they don't let you pick your own schema
[19:13] <sbalneav> they don't give you ANY option
[19:14] <sbalneav> They GIVE you a layout, and you plug your users into it.
[19:14] <sbalneav> and it works, because they have a KNOWN entity to work against.
[19:14] <nubae> yep
[19:14] <nubae> thats what opensuse does too, they pick your schema for you
[19:14] <nubae> well u are given some options
[19:14] <nubae> like use samba, use ldap with postfix, etc
[19:14] <nubae> but very few options
[19:15] <sbalneav> The problem I (and others) have always had with trying to get ldap into edubuntu is that the server guys always want to support everything
[19:15] <nubae> which is just fine
[19:15] <nubae> yeah well
[19:15] <sbalneav> I think if we WANT to implement SOMETHING, we need to
[19:15] <nubae> do the concerns of users or ubuntu server come first?
[19:16] <nubae> well, every major distro has a half decent user management system
[19:16] <nubae> opensuse and fedora both have very nice and working user managment systems
[19:16] <nubae> ours just sucks
[19:16] <sbalneav> 1) pick a use case (edubuntu servers authenticating against an ldap schema, no ad, no samba, nice and simple)
[19:16] <nubae> plain and simple
[19:16] <sbalneav> well, yeah
[19:16] <sbalneav> because THEY have picked a schema, and stuck with it
[19:16] <nubae> but.... both fedora and opensuse use their own tools
[19:16] <nubae> nothing standard
[19:16] <nubae> yep
[19:16] <nubae> but thats better than doing nothing
[19:16] <sbalneav> that's what we need to do.
[19:17] <sbalneav> the gnome user tools wouldn't be bad, if they did ldap
[19:17] <sbalneav> but they CAN'T do ldap until we pick a schema style we're going to code against
[19:18] <nubae> or a set of them
[19:18] <sbalneav> Well sure
[19:18] <nubae> ie... we look at the possibilities
[19:18] <nubae> there is plain ldap for authentication
[19:18] <nubae> ldap +samba for authentication and windows support
[19:18] <nubae> ldap+samba+postfix for authentication, file management, and mail
[19:19] <nubae> and then even things like ldap+samba+postfix+moodle
[19:19] <nubae> we have to choose where to limit ourselves
[19:19] <nubae> of course these schemas ARE standaradised
[19:19] <nubae> so it should be a matter of just picking them
[19:20] <sbalneav> And I'd say, for a start, we pick JUST plain ldap authentication, get it implemented and working, then we can branch out from there.
[19:22] <sbalneav> Go with the uid=blah,ou=users,dc=... for users
[19:22] <sbalneav> and gid=blah,ou=groups,dc= blah for groups
[19:22] <nubae> maybe ldap+samba would make more sense
[19:22] <nubae> so that u kill 2 birds with 1 stone
[19:23] <nubae> after all its likely there will be windows and osx clients in the schools too
[19:23] <sbalneav> I'm not familiar with the samba side of ldap, since I don't support any windows.
[19:23] <nubae> sbalneav: have u ever looked at sugar?
[19:23] <nubae> the window manager?
[19:23] <sbalneav> No
[19:24] <nubae> might I suggest u do so... its an amazing project... absolutely incredible in what it can do and what its intentions are
[19:24] <sbalneav> I know it's used by OLPC, and I've seen it once or twice, but I've never tried it personally.
[19:24] <nubae> the community is incredible, and you'll find some of the best coders on the planet working on it... its similar in that way to ltsp
[19:25] <sbalneav> You're talking to a guy who thinks the pinnacle of desktop environments was reached with twm, and it's been downhill ever since :)
[19:25] <sbalneav> I can have a look
[19:25] <nubae> well then u'll love sugar
[19:25] <sbalneav> jaunty packages?
[19:25] <nubae> its based on matchbox
[19:25] <nubae> well thats the thing
[19:26] <nubae> we're desperately looking for sugar packagers
[19:26] <nubae> I package it for opensuse
[19:26] <nubae> so I dont do it for ubuntu
[19:26] <nubae> but... u can download images and run in a vm for Fedora, Mandriva or openSUSE
[19:26] <nubae> I suggest the Sugar on a stick
[19:26] <Svenstaro> Packaging is kinda easy, though, do you only need packagers?
[19:27] <nubae> its the best implementation outside of Sugar right now
[19:27] <nubae> no, we need all kinds of people Svenstaro
[19:27] <nubae> please join #sugar if you are interested
[19:28] <nubae> I dont want to canabolise edubuntu, the 2 projects can coexist... though sugar is more upstream and has a more stable working community :-)
[19:28] <nubae> grin
[19:29] <nubae> some of the things sugar does is it makes collaboration (like what abiword or google docs does) work with every application
[19:29] <nubae> so kids can collaboratively learn, and the idea of files has been replaced by something called a journal
[19:30] <nubae> which contains an entry for everything the student/teacher does in the environment
[19:30] <Ahmuck_> why support everything.  this goes back to what i was saying before.  pick the battles, and win those.  let the bystanders figure out their own mess
[19:31] <nubae> we are currently incorporating the idea of achievements/medals for activities... so for example, if u collaborated with 5 people on something u'd get the collaboration award
[19:31] <Ahmuck_> i think i would adpt ldap+samba etc.
[19:31] <Ahmuck_> i think you need windows support
[19:31] <nubae> anyway..... its all very exciting
[19:32] <Ahmuck_> nubae: is there support for getting the bugs worked out on ubuntu 9.04 ?
[19:33] <nubae> for sugar u mean?
[19:33] <nubae> they are pretty much waiting for debian policy
[19:33] <nubae> so no
[19:33] <nubae> it was either fork from debian or wait on them, and unfortunately, the debian maintainer is not the easiest person in the world to talk to
[19:34] <nubae> alkisg: aren't u up for helping in sugarlabs?
[19:34] <alkisg> nubae: sorry, I've never used it
[19:35] <nubae> then please do so! :-) you'll be pleasantly surprised
[19:35] <sbalneav> Ahmuck_: see, I'd go the opposite way.  I personally don't want windows support, because if we try to "sort of support" windows, we need proper AD integration.
[19:35] <nubae> I believe its been totally translated to greek
[19:35] <alkisg> nubae: I'll give it a try in the summer
[19:35] <nubae> sbalneav: well the thing is, the other distros do samba support :-/
[19:36] <sbalneav> What, so we have to then?
[19:36] <nubae> ok, we could use productive people like yourself, and its a truly amazing community
[19:36] <nubae> afraid so yeah
[19:36] <nubae> if we dont want to keep loosing people to other distros
[19:36] <Ahmuck_> sbalneav: the problem with not having windows support, is that if your truly want ubuntu-ltsp+edubuntu theme in the classroom, your going to be working with mixed environments
[19:36] <nubae> its unfortunate there is competition within the distro scene
[19:37] <Ahmuck_> LDAP + AD gives you the options to migrate entirely at a later date to LDAP only
[19:37] <nubae> well ldap is AD
[19:37] <nubae> u mean ldap + samba
[19:37] <nubae> AD is a type of LDAP
[19:37] <Ahmuck_> er, yes
[19:37] <sbalneav> Is that a goal of ours?  Not "losing people to other distros"?
[19:37] <Ahmuck_> AD is a type, but it's not LDAP
[19:37] <Ahmuck_> sbalneav: not loosing market share to windows should be a goal
[19:38] <nubae> well, I would want to make our distro as 'good' as possible and that means making damn sure we have just as good and useful features as other distros
[19:38] <Ahmuck_> anybody not looking at market share regardless if it's a gpl project or proprietary is not doing smart thinking
[19:38] <nubae> its the reason people used ubuntu up to now... the best LTSP 5.0 impementation
[19:38] <nubae> but now thats changing, we are losing people
[19:39] <sbalneav> Ahmuck_: I realize that.  but, as I keep saying, we don't have enough people to do *everything*.  I've always advocated picking a very simple use case and getting it *right*.  Our problem is we keep widening the scope, getting nothing accomplished, rather than picking one SIMPLE thing, and getting it done.
[19:39] <nubae> Fedora, Debian and openSUSE all caught up, and they have elements in their distros that make them slightly better than ubuntu right now
[19:40] <sbalneav> OK, and?
[19:40] <nubae> we need to catch up to them now
[19:40] <sbalneav> If they're superior, they win
[19:40] <sbalneav> no. we. don't.
[19:40] <nubae> no... we just need to catch up
[19:40] <nubae> hmmm, well we do if dont want ubuntu to go the way of the dinosaur...
[19:40] <sbalneav> We need to get something, ANYTHING working.
[19:40] <nubae> sorry edubuntu
[19:42] <sbalneav> If we could come out with a simple use case THAT WORKED, i.e. you have "edubuntu+nfs for home dirs+ldap working+user tools working against that+working sabayon" that'd be a huge step forward.
[19:43] <sbalneav> if we keep widening the scope, we never get anything accomplished, becayse the work then becomes too big for the small number of devs we have.
[19:43] <sbalneav> imho
[19:43] <sbalneav> anywho, I'm talking here, and that's not going to get sabayon working.
[19:44] <sbalneav> afk, trying to get sabayon 2.25 compiled.
[19:44] <Ahmuck_> sbalneav: do the quick thing then, ur right
[19:44] <Ahmuck_> see, i believe in the turtle
[19:45] <Ahmuck_> if it's done right, then waiting a bit is ok
[19:45] <Ahmuck_> and i believe eating elephants one bite at a time
[19:45] <sbalneav> Well ok then.
[19:46] <sbalneav> I know how to handle ldap+simple auth, because I do it around here.
[19:46] <sbalneav> You want to work on the samba+ad part?
[19:46] <Ahmuck_> who has the docs?  i'd like to take a look at the work that has been done.  i'm working through a vm and am going to be screenshoting screen by screen and documenting every step
[19:47] <sbalneav> Desktop docs? Or LTSP docs?
[19:47] <sbalneav> http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/LtspDocumentationUpstream
[19:47] <sbalneav> That't the LTSP docs at the current moment
[19:48] <sbalneav> the ltsp docs used to be part of the edubuntu handbook
[19:48] <sbalneav> nubae split them out, and he and I brought them up to date.
[19:49] <sbalneav> the idea would be to have them included somehow as a chapter in the edubuntu handbook
[19:49] <Ahmuck_> edubuntu have it's own docs?
[19:49] <sbalneav> they, the edubuntu-docs package, I beleiev
[19:49] <sbalneav> which is the edubuntu-handbook
[19:49] <sbalneav> A large part of the handbook is ltsp docs
[19:50] <Ahmuck_> ok. i'm going to work through both then
[19:50] <Ahmuck_> and see how well i can follow them
[19:50] <sbalneav> they could be yanked, and links could be provided to them if someone packaged up the ltsp docs
[19:50] <sbalneav> they could be linked through a yelp link.
[19:51] <Ahmuck_> anywho, because i'm interested in saybayon, i'm going to let you be.  btw, what r other distros using for user management?
[19:51] <Lns> If it helps, one other person and I are developing/picking up where ogra's "LTSP Manager" and "Thin-Client-Manager" left off. We're redesigning both tools to be integrated into one, and make them stable, and add lots of functionality.
[19:51] <Lns> It will be a sort of "LTSP Control Panel" if it all works out the way I want
[19:53] <Lns> You'll be able to manage the chroot, user sessions, connect via VNC, manage clients (power on/off/scheduled), share screens, lock sessions, and all sorts of other fun stuff
[19:53] <Lns> a lot of this stuff was already done by Ogra but the projects got orphaned when he moved on..so i'm hoping we'll be able to take that code and make it into something awesome
[19:53] <sbalneav> Lns: got a bzr tree somewhere?
[19:54] <Lns> sbalneav: not yet, we're still spec'ing out our goals - but the work we have done so far is here (which is going to be mutated into those tools since we re-discovered them): http://damnation.neg9.org/dripy/projects/lns
[19:55] <Lns> oops the code isn't there
[19:55] <Ahmuck_> ogra moved on?
[19:56] <Lns> I'll find out where it is if you want. Basically that code is sort of what we envisioned as a client/server facility for command & control of clients
[19:56] <Lns> Ahmuck: to the netbook part of canonical, yeah
[19:56] <Lns> from edubuntu
[19:57] <alkisg> Lns: so the goal is to also replace italc?
[19:57] <Ahmuck_> ogra is conical ?
[19:57] <Lns> alkisg: not necessarily, no
[19:57] <Ahmuck_> Lns, does it need a fancy name?
[19:58] <Lns> iTalc is good but it lacks a lot of ltsp specific functionality i want
[19:58] <Lns> Ahmuck: huh?
[19:58] <Ahmuck_> call it gantalope :)
[19:58] <Lns> a name is just a name..it's what it does that counts ;)
[19:58] <Ahmuck_> ah, companies have been built on good names though
[19:58] <Ahmuck_> branding is important
[19:59] <Lns> well we're likely going to change the name since thinking about working with the other existing projects, so....no issue
[19:59] <Lns> lol
[19:59] <Lns> if it's that important
[19:59] <Lns> what i'm focussed on is getting something real together
[20:01] <Ahmuck_> eh, i'm just laxing around, brain is in between projects :)
[20:03] <Lns> sbalneav: mercurial can be used to check out the code apparently - https://damnation.neg9.org/hg/lns
[20:03] <Lns> it's really still in its infancy though
[20:06] <Lns> I mean, look at what's already been done by ogra - its a shame nobody had picked up the code since then. This is gold. http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/LTSPManager/
[20:10] <alkisg> Yeah, ogra's done a good job on this (as usual)
[20:13] <Lns> No big surprises there =)
[20:14] <Lns> it's up to those who want to make this stuff really work to pick it up.. so I'm willing to do that. That's my #1 complaint - teachers/school techs who have next to 0 knowledge of Linux need something like this to work with it and feel useful..otherwise they just get scared of it and start disliking it
[20:14] <Lns> They are so used to being the hero with Windows that its a big shock when they can't figure something out...a GUI tool like this will enable them to accomplish a lot.
[20:15] <alkisg> Yeah. That & simple user management tasks are much needed things
[20:17] <Lns> alkisg: exactly. I'm aiming to accomplish that (eventually) as well. It all just takes time to map out
[20:17] <Lns> I spent about an hour last night just sketching windows and options and preferences for what i want...now the dev i'm working with will be able to translate it into actual useful stuff =p
[20:18] <alkisg> nubae, you need to change your ISP
[20:18] <alkisg> :P
[20:20] <Lns> haha
[20:24] <sbalneav> Hmm, well, created sabayon 2.25 source package.  Now to see if it builds under pbuilder
[20:25] <sbalneav> then I have to see what I need to do to get it up to my ppd
[20:25] <sbalneav> ppa
[20:25] <alkisg> sbalneav: signing + dput
[20:28] <sbalneav> Yeah, well, I can't remember how to do that part :)
[20:29] <sbalneav> Anything outside of vi foo.c ; make ; make install tends to confuse me :)
[20:29] <sbalneav> durned newfangled packaging systems.
[20:29]  * sbalneav shakes fist
[20:29] <sbalneav> YOU YOUNG WHIPPERSNAPPERS GET OFF MY LAWN
[20:30] <alkisg> heh :)
[20:30] <alkisg> sbalneav: http://alkisg.pastebin.com/d6c14f81d
[20:31] <sbalneav> thx, I'll try that when the pbuilder gets done it's thang
[20:31] <Lns> hahaha
[20:32] <Lns> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5kFrCINpl8&feature=related
[20:33]  * Lns can't help but think of this every time someone says to get off their lawn
[20:33] <nubae> I know
[20:33] <nubae> cant keep a connection for longer than an hour, but I think its the copper cabling to be honest
[20:34] <Lns> nubae: you on dialup?
[20:35] <nubae> no, dsl
[20:35] <nubae> still copper cabling
[20:35] <Lns> right
[20:35] <alkisg> Check the noise on your router's web interface
[20:36] <nubae> well I know that is the problem, the dsl guy told me when he installed the router
[20:36] <nubae> but I'm not about to start messing with changing the copper cabling in the entire house
[20:36] <nubae> I'll just have to move
[20:36] <nubae> :-)
[20:36] <nubae> Lns: u ever checked out sugar?
[20:37] <nubae> I'm trying to get people to help out with that project... its an amazing community and truly amazing software with great ideals and working towards something totally unique
[20:37] <nubae> sugarlabs.org
[20:37] <Lns> nubae: not yet, i need to install it on an ubuntu box soon though to check it out and show it to someone
[20:37] <nubae> its the os that runs on the one laptop per child computers
[20:37] <Lns> nubae: yeah i know that much :)
[20:38] <nubae> well, unfortunately the ubuntu packages are really old
[20:38] <nubae> u'd need a vm of another distro, I think sugar on a stick (fedora based) is the most up to date
[20:38] <nubae> along with opensuse of course since I maintain that
[20:38] <nubae> but really, its worth checking out, especially for primary schools
[20:39] <nubae> works pretty ok with LTSP, but needs a lot of testing in that area, and you could be really helpful there
[20:39] <nubae> since u have existing deployments
[20:39] <Lns> can't anyone make a ppa for updated sugar in ubuntu?
[20:39] <nubae> u would get endless praise if u helped otu
[20:39] <nubae> out
[20:39] <nubae> well, they could, but they aren't
[20:39] <nubae> I've been working on an automated package creation tool along with some others
[20:39] <nubae> using opensuse's gpled build service
[20:40] <nubae> that way we get from source to packages in one go, without having to rely on the distros
[20:40] <Lns> hmm...
[20:40] <nubae> in most cases they will of course repackage themselves cause of policy and stuff
[20:40] <nubae> but it pushes them to do so
[20:40] <Lns> yeah
[20:40] <nubae> like when we anounced it suddenly the debian maintainer started to work like mad to get the packages out :-)
[20:40] <nubae> so there should be a buntu version soon
[20:41] <Lns> well imho a PPA would be a great place to start. it would get the ball rolling, and i use ubuntu at all my sites, so....
[20:42] <Lns> nubae: how hard would it be to compile latest sugar on ubuntu?
[20:42] <nubae> right, so we are gonna have the automated packages created in a ppa
[20:42] <nubae> or an external repo
[20:42] <nubae> well, that should be quite doable
[20:43] <nubae> u can run jhbuild (python based) relatively easily
[20:43] <Lns> does it have a lot of deps i need to worry about?
[20:43] <nubae> the problems come whith integration of some of the gnome deps like abiword and such
[20:44] <nubae> but try it out, I know there are devs working from an ubuntu version of jhbuild
[20:44] <nubae> but thats almost the same are running a vm
[20:44] <Lns> ..it is?
[20:44] <nubae> might be quicker to download an iso and launch in kvm or whatever
[20:44] <nubae> yeah it runs in its own environment
[20:45] <Lns> is it X based?
[20:45] <nubae> yep
[20:45] <nubae> matchbox
[20:45] <nubae> but we're moving to metacity in next release
[20:45] <nubae> meaning individual activities will be able to be launched from gnome
[20:45] <nubae> that will be quite cool
[20:45] <Lns> oh wow
[20:45] <nubae> that will mean collaborative activities will be more common place
[20:45] <Lns> yeah, that would be awesome
[20:46] <nubae> yeah there is a lot of stuff happening in that project... sky is the limit
[20:46] <Lns> i doubt any of my sites would want to switch completely to sugar from gnome
[20:46] <nubae> thats why its so great to work on
[20:46] <Lns> theyv'e had a hard enough time learning gnome.. ;)
[20:46] <nubae> its not a complete switch thing for sure
[20:46] <nubae> but for example, gcompris is making heavy duty progress in integrating completely in the sugar environment
[20:46] <nubae> childsplay too
[20:46] <Lns> nubae: in the meantime you think fedora would be the best iso to use?
[20:47] <nubae> yeah
[20:47] <nubae> sugersuse iso isnt bad either, but I'm just rebuilding browse at the minute
[20:47] <nubae> some messy deps there
[20:49]  * Lns is downloading SoaS iso
[21:00] <nubae> cool
[21:06] <nubae> Lns: the really interesting things are the journal, which is a replacement for folders or directories and is used to semi-automatically keep track of your work, and collaboration, where lots of users can use programs at the same time in some collaborative way
[21:06] <nubae> basically there is no need for nautilus, or dolphin or its equivalents
[21:28] <nubae> Lns: take a look at this: http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Talk:Community/Distributions/OpenSUSE
[21:50] <nubae> bencrisford1: if u are looking for a great project to work on u can look at sugar too
[21:50] <nubae> sugarlabs.org
[21:50]  * nubae stops advertising
[21:50] <bencrisford1> sugar huh?
[21:50] <bencrisford1> whats that then :P?
[21:51] <Lns> yeah nubae you have too much sugar in your system ;)
[21:51] <nubae> its a system like gnome or kde, but more for kids
[21:52] <nubae> so its an environment that kids learn/understand real quick and it fosters constructionism by collaboration and reviewing activities
[21:52] <nubae> yeah I'm all sugared up
[21:55] <bencrisford1> it sounds good
[21:56] <bencrisford1> i might ask you about it again tommorrow
[21:56]  * bencrisford1 's a little tired
[21:56] <bencrisford1> and im a bit busy with my forum right now
[21:57] <bencrisford1> its a politics forum
[21:57] <bencrisford1> and in the UK theres alot going on right now
[23:45] <Ahmuck_> LTSP Manager is exactly the kind of thing were looking for
[23:49] <Lns> Ahmuck_: good. We're already getting started on merging LTSP Manager and Thin-Client-Manager into one app
[23:50] <Lns> we're going to clean up code and then start adding features
[23:50] <Lns> There will be/is a module system too, to add any functionality you want
[23:51] <Ahmuck_> how does this work with sayabon?
[23:52] <Ahmuck_> will there be a unified type of app?
[23:54] <Lns> Right now, I'm not sure. I know sbalneav is working on sabayon to get it stable, but at this point we can't do anything with it. Maybe by the time we start implementing UI customization features it will be stable enough to just call from a menu
[23:54] <Lns> Otherwise we're going to probably implement more of a pessulus type of interface
[23:55] <Lns> direct editing of gconf, instead of having an actual session going. but again that's oging to be a ways off. We've got a lot of work to do to even get it running :)
[23:57] <Lns> Some cool things we'll have is power scheduling features (turn all thin clients in group FOO off at 3:30pm, all clients in group BAR off at 5:00pm, except for on Thursdays, etc etc.. then wake them up via WoL at 7:50am, etc
[23:57] <Lns> or turning on/off at will
[23:57] <Lns> i know iTalc already has this..but this is going to be a much lighter app