[00:03] neat. light and versatile is good [00:04] that's what we're going for =) [00:07] nubae: ping? [03:08] does edu apps touch optimized ? [12:23] Hello [12:25] hi skipjack [12:25] I think I have a Problem ;) my ThinClients starts with an 180 degres rotated X... [12:25] knows someone about this? [12:26] oh nice :-) [12:26] hehe ;) nice but not usable ;) [12:26] well sounds like xorg.conf has that set with xrandr... first try reconfiguring your thin clients [12:27] hehe anyone an idea? [12:27] okay, [12:27] so dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg [12:27] you mean xorg for the thinclient or is that xorg of my server? [12:27] thin client [12:27] but maybe first, lets try debugging from the beginning [12:28] pastebin your lts.conf for me and also output of lspci [12:28] and your dmesg and xorg.conf (from thin client, not server) [12:28] hehe okay, [12:29] the things from the thin client, should be a Problem. because I can't login in console [12:29] and with 180 degree x, it's verry hard [12:32] ¡ɟʇʍ [12:33] hehe that's not fair.. [12:33] the file: /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/lts.conf is empty? [12:33] or where is it located? [12:33] By default, yes [12:34] oh okay, but not empty / not created is better discriped [12:34] ok... well start by creating it [12:35] and set X_CONFIGURE=True and XSERVER=auto [12:35] or was it X_SERVER? [12:35] anyway.... the file must contain the first line saying [default] and then underneath the things I just mentione [12:35] xorg [12:36] skipjack: version? [12:36] no, we're gonna try skipping some steps and move straight to configuring your xserver [12:36] so just try XSERVER=auto, xorg should normally configure itself [12:36] 1.6.0 [12:37] xorg-server 2:1.6.0-0ubuntu14 (buildd@rothera.buildd) [12:37] unlesss alkisg prefers to lead u through the whole debugging process ;p [12:37] hehe;) nice [12:38] nubae: nah... just asking for (ed)ubuntu version to see if configure_x is needed. Don't worry, I'm into cooperated troubleshooting, not like some others... :P :D [12:39] so whats ure ed/ubuntu version skipjack? [12:40] lts.conf : http://nopaste.info/ea0afdca57.html [12:40] lspci (Server): http://nopaste.info/c2592ab9d5.html [12:40] ubuntu 9.04 [12:42] I have now started an X Session ( ThinClient) with XTerminal ( Rescure Solution )... and here is the whole session only an opend xterm, but here are the thinks not rotated [12:42] who can I now get the dmesg and xorg config of the thin client ? [12:42] do what I said above [12:42] I think config is under /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/ ? [12:42] create lts.conf with [default] and both options [12:42] yes [12:42] created [12:43] u did that already? [12:43] yes [12:43] I did it [12:43] under /var/lib/tftpboot? [12:43] hehe I should write back when I have finish an ToDo-Step which you sayed me [12:43] yes [12:43] ok, and the screen still comes out sideways? [12:44] I have created and copyed then to the aboved no-paste pages [12:44] ok so its nvidia, set XSERVER=nvidia and try again [12:45] I must restart the thinclient after editing lts.conf? [12:45] okay [12:45] oh okay wait, it's nvidia on the server [12:46] oh, I need lspci from the thin client [12:46] but in the thinclient here is an ati card [12:46] ok, so try XSERVER=ati [12:46] okay, that's my problem. I don't know how? [12:46] but I need to know which make exacly as it could be radeon or even radeonhd [12:46] can I get this from thinclient [12:47] well, first thing is to give root a pass on the thin client chroot [12:47] thats done by doing sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 [12:47] and then passwd (mypassword) [12:47] no brackets [12:48] then u can hit fkey +ctrl+alt and get a screen to login to the thin client directly, where u can lspci for the vga card [12:50] thin-Client lspci : http://nopaste.info/9793547ecd.html [12:51] :fuck [12:51] sorry, was also not the right [12:54] skipjack: let me get this straight: [12:54] In ldm (the login screen) you see things right, [12:54] yes [12:54] but when you login they're upside down? [12:55] hmm I have chrooted, and passwd. But I can't login at the default Console . ( STRG + ALT + F1 .. ) [12:55] skipjack: if so, it's not a thin client thing [12:55] alkisg: yes [12:55] okay [12:55] skipjack: create a new user and try with him [12:56] hmm okay, [12:56] I think root is immutable isn't? [12:56] Don't log into the server with that user - try directly into the client [12:56] okay [12:56] u have to mode -i I believe [12:56] or whatever the command is again, alkisg? [12:56] passwd -u [12:56] Or SCREEN_02=shell and SCREEN_07=ldm [12:57] I never was able to get 2 screens goigng at the same time [12:57] alkisg: u were? [12:57] okay, user: thin2 created, and I logged in at thinclient [12:57] Yeah, with both of the SCREENS defined [12:57] skipjack: and you got the same problem? [12:57] yes [12:57] Did you install the nvidia driver at the server? [12:58] yes [12:58] I think it messes with some libraries... :( [12:58] wiat though, we need him to tell us the card on the client [12:58] nubae: it works fine up until ldm [12:58] So I don't think it's an X problem in the thin client... [12:58] hmmm [12:58] hmm the laptop/thinclient card is an ati radeon X1600 [12:58] useally driver: fglrx [12:59] well thats easily enough testable, try defining a static xorg.conf [12:59] and see what happens [12:59] or with XDRIVER=vesa [12:59] vesa sometimes doesnt work for ati cards [12:59] ok [12:59] they are a pain in the ass (modern atis) [12:59] always the same story, they are never caught up [13:00] I should edit /etc/X11/xorg.conf ( on the server ) and change the driver to vesa oder svga? [13:00] No no don't change that [13:00] Either XSERVER=vesa in lts.conf (but it may not work with ati as nubae says), or what nubae said. [13:02] okay: /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/lts.conf changed [13:03] I should restart the thin client? [13:03] yeah [13:03] okay [13:04] okay, thin client is back [13:05] should I login? [13:05] Yes [13:05] okay [13:05] okay looks better ;) [13:06] That's because the vesa driver doesn't support rotation? :) [13:06] lol ;) [13:06] hehe okay. But I think it's important that I get flgrx/ati driver running under thinclients [13:06] is that possible? [13:06] What does it use if you don't define anything in lts.conf? [13:07] hehe good queston ;) wee will see ;) [13:07] Try with: [13:07] [Default] [13:07] SCREEN_02=shell [13:07] SCREEN_07=ldm [13:07] as the contents of lts.conf [13:08] hehe no it's okay, i'm only an novice at ltsp / thinclient [13:08] So that you can debug it from the shell [13:08] okay Parameters are add [13:08] restart thin client? [13:09] skipjack: yes, but put *only* those parameters [13:09] Nothing else... [13:09] oh okay [13:10] With Alt+Ctrl+F2 you'll get to a local shell prompt as root [13:10] okay [13:10] So you'll be able to see /var/log/Xorg.0.log etc [13:10] good morning [13:10] Hi Ahmuck_ [13:11] ah okay ;) [13:11] great [13:12] okay should I paste Xorg.7.log ( .0.log does not exist,.. ) [13:13] Yeah, sure, upload it to pastebin [13:13] pastebin.be [13:13] And also the output of `lspci | grep VGA` for nubae to see the exact card model (I've absolutely no clue about ATI's) [13:14] http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/ [13:14] i picked up 5 pc with 1.2Ghz procs and 512mb ram ... however they appear to have some type of novell boot rather than pxe boot [13:15] Hmmm? [13:16] there is no such thing :-) [13:16] its probably novell pxe boot [13:17] although didnt novell have their networking system... but that was like 20 years ago [13:17] Yeah, that was my first lab... 386 sx with 2 mb ram, no hd :) [13:17] okay, 1sorry wait a moment, I must take a call [13:17] Booting from a novell 486 server === bdefreese2 is now known as bddebian [13:23] Xorg.7.log ( ThinClient): http://nopaste.info/b76758618d.html [13:23] lspci ( thinclient) : http://nopaste.info/3b41f3cdd8.html [13:27] alkisg: nubae [13:28] * alkisg doesn't have a clue about ati cards/drivers [13:28] sec [13:28] RPL ROM ? [13:29] ok, u need the fglrx driver [13:29] its properietary so u may need to install it in the chroot [13:30] I wrote this down once, long ago, requires u to get the xserver-ati, and couple of the things... let me recheck [13:31] u need xorg-driver-fglrx in the chroot [13:31] novell netware firmware ready, RPL ROM, and then crashes [13:31] sounds like a busted pxe [13:32] can u switch the cards? [13:32] thats definitely gonna be the cheapest solution [13:32] looks like your system isn't locating the boot sector on the hard drive and is then looking for an RPL server from which to perform a remote boot [13:33] skipjack: and u need linux-restricted-modules [13:33] http://www.cybertechhelp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17190 [13:33] nubae: okay, but on the thinclient I need this packages? [13:34] skipjack: follow teh ati part of this tutorial [13:34] http://www.waterlovinghead.com/LinuxLTSP [13:34] my server has this packages installed, and I have here running nvidia driver. also my own compiled kernel [13:34] okay [13:34] thanks [13:34] of course exchanging the fglrx versions for the latest [13:34] which u can download from the net some place [13:35] but basically that should help, u obviously dont need the cinerama part unless u have 2 monitors u want to use [13:35] on the thin client [13:36] hehe ;) [13:36] that's the next step [13:36] I hope 100mbit is enought for Xorg and working [13:38] sure, but dont expect 3d and flash working well [13:38] okay, so I should upgrade to 1000mbit Network? [13:39] is there an page about calculation such things? [13:40] so that I can do some Math about calculation the traffic.. [13:41] ok, it's Novell RPL RPM (boot) for the nic, and here is no way to change it to pxe. does ltsp have support for novell rpl boot rom ? [14:03] Ahmuck_: are you sure it doesn't have pxe support from the bios? I.e. an option for rpl/pxe? [14:05] skipjack: e.g. for xv video, the formula is: width*height*frames per second*12 bits color depth [14:07] Ahmuck_: change the card [14:07] is it really worh [14:07] all this trouble [14:08] I mean... surely your time is worth about 50$ minimum per hour, and u've already spent that on this [14:08] rpl booting: http://www.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/RPL [14:08] u could have bought 5 pxe booting cards with that money ;-) [14:14] alkisg: i'm sure. IBM RPL-ROM does, Novell doesn't from what i gather on the inet [14:14] i'll check again [14:14] card is onboard [14:14] sis chipset [14:15] i'm going to use gplx instead [14:15] though it's been mentioned to try bootp [14:19] Ahmuck_: http://www.huweb.hu/maques/rpl.htm [14:19] But seriously, use newer cards :) [14:20] alkisg: ah, and here is the disconnect. teachers are buying their own supplies with their own money to fund their classroom activities [14:21] OK, they can give 10$ less in hw and 100$ more in support if they want :) [14:22] actually, it's a good thing to know [14:22] the supports already paid for [14:22] the card's aren't [14:26] using old pc's as they are and with someone on staff that has the time is the idea solution. the other solution is to get everything new, given to you, which is what the state and ms is doing in our area, except it's all microsoft :) [14:28] I'm gonna start calling edubuntu a legacy os :p [14:29] Ahmuck_: well if they have a floppy/cd/hd you may probably use gpxe [14:32] alkisg: actually, it appears i can flash the boot PROM with gpxe [14:32] and it'll do away with the RPL-ROM [14:34] Maybe you want to try it first with a floppy to see if it actually works [14:45] actually, i thought i'd create a cdrom [14:54] Internal GStreamer error: state change failed. Please file a bug at http://bugzilla.gnome.org/enter_bug.cgi?product=GStreamer. [14:55] listening to a stream from di.fm, solo piano [14:55] using media player === Ahmuck_LTSP is now known as Ahmuck_ltsp_clie === Ahmuck_ltsp_clie is now known as Ahmuck_LTSP [14:57] Inserting a CD on server causes notices to come up on every machine. Ubuntu Alternate CD triggers "upgrade" option as it should but sends notices to every client [14:59] hmm is it possible to change the Video Driver / create/recompile an new fglrx(Ati) driver for LTSP 4.2 ? [15:11] hi pleia2 [15:11] hello Ahmuck_ [15:11] how's ledgersmb ? [15:12] chugging along, no major developments [15:12] unfortunately I need to pull back in development some, I simply don't have the time [15:17] skipjack: wait... u are using 4.2? [15:17] nubae: nope ;) I have thinked [15:17] I have checked that I useing 5.1 .. [15:17] ok, 4.2 is no longer supported [15:17] at all [15:17] pleia2: isn't that always the case :) [15:18] i'm hiring somebody on monday to take up my overwork so i can do more on the oss side [15:18] yes ;) have seen, then checked [15:18] Ahmuck_: nice :) ledgersmb was a work thing but we've moved on and I stayed on the team, but now I don't have work time to devote to it [15:19] and I tend to like doing more community-ish things in my free time [15:21] pleia2: have u heard about sugar? [15:21] its a new window manager/learning environment for kids between 3-14 [15:22] its very special and an amazing community [15:22] we are looking for more volunteers that could help us... [15:23] the project is all about learning to learning and we have some amazing innovations like truly collaborative apps that allow many kids to work in groups, as well as a jorunaling system that replaces file keeping completely [15:23] that way u know what u did, when u did it, and what it was all about... [15:23] sugarlabs.org [15:29] does ubuntu ltsp use tftp, http, or ftp for it's boot method ? [15:30] nubae: I have, but I've more been diving into moodle of late for educational tools [15:30] (have heard of it, that is) [15:30] yeah Moodle is great [15:30] Ahmuck_: tftp, usually. [15:31] at openSUSE we are migrating everything to that [15:31] openSUSE-edu that is [15:31] And that would be PXE, not specifically ltsp [15:35] alrighty [15:36] got it. download rom to cdrom and create and iso via "rom-o-matic" at http://rom-o-matic.net/. boot order as cd-rom, network, none [15:36] now booting gpxe and getting clients [15:36] * Ahmuck_ dances a jig [15:36] and i still have my 50.00 :) [15:37] how do u calculate that? how much time have u spent on getting the cards to work? 4 hours? [15:37] that would mean u are 150 in the red :p [15:39] nubae: 0 [15:39] if it don't work i don't mess with it [15:42] in fact, from a educational stand point, or from a onsite tech standpoint i think your going to find this true. 10 min, don't work, move on [15:55] seriously, opposing individuals who are making an effort to stay with edubuntu reguardless how they choose to do it is counterproductive [15:55] anywho, i'll look at the docs and see if RPL-ROM is covered. if not i'll add it [16:08] morning everybody [16:26] gooooood morning LaserJock [16:26] don't forget your disertation ! [16:28] i've been thinking about edubuntu. if edubuntu wants to focus on edu apps then a ubuntu-ltsp group needs to be formed to deal with specific ubuntu-ltsp issues [16:28] Ahmuck_: I think stgraber would appreciate help [16:29] and now for question. setting the default size for login screen, 1024x800 and session, and dpi for fonts. something i need to do universally [16:29] Ahmuck_: +1 [16:29] actually at next UDS, LTSP will be part of Ubuntu Server, not education [16:29] stgraber: +1 (?) [16:29] stgraber: so, then all ltsp questions would be answered in ubuntu-server not in edubuntu ? [16:30] well, I'll still be in that chan ;) but yes, that's the idea [16:30] that also means joining the ubuntu server community which is quite active and getting things like some room at UDS for discussion [16:30] so then any edubuntu-ltsp question should be deffered to ubuntu-server [16:31] stgraber: u mean me ? [16:31] rather than #ltsp [16:31] sometimes i get the response from edubuntu - that is a ltsp question, and from #ltsp - that is a ubuntu question, and from ubuntu - that is a edubuntu question, and so on. stuck in an infintate loop [16:32] how does ubuntu server differ from ubuntu-ltsp ? [16:33] i can actually do a standalone ubuntu client if ubuntu server would do things like central user managment, desktop configurations, lockdown, etc. [16:33] which appears to be stronger in ltsp whereas server is just serving apps, webserving, etc. i might be mis-understanding the two roles [16:35] Ahmuck_: I think the point would be that the Server Team is much more familiar with the server aspects of LTSP [16:36] Ahmuck_: LTSP needs to be part of an official team so that we can be part of the whole speccing/UDS/... process [16:36] in reguards to edubuntu apps, part of our problem is teachers already have their favourites. this means the app has to be extra spectacular, with teacher management capabilities. extra spectacular includes lesson play, graphics, progress measuring, etc. there are plenty of salesmen triping over the threshold trying to get apps in at the state level. at the local level is where you would... [16:36] ...make a dent. [16:36] currently LTSP was a bit of education, desktop and server but not fully part of any of these [16:36] i would agre, ltsp needs it's own team [16:37] and edubuntu would deal only with the edu apps portion of ltsp, such as SDL sound, etc. [16:37] by doing so you have people specialized in those areas rather than trying to do it all in one basket so to speak [16:38] and/or needs to be a sub-team of ubuntu-server [16:38] bbl, afk [17:34] Hi LaserJock [17:34] anything new with the 'edubuntu revolution'? [17:35] in 1.5 hrs we'll find out [17:35] oh yeah, the meeting [17:35] what time is that btw? [17:37] i have a spux developer meeting at 19:00 UTC, but I guess I attend both, shouldnt be too busy [17:37] 18:00UTC [17:40] * bencrisford1 has back to back meetings :P [17:40] is there an agenda page we can edit LaserJock? [17:40] let's see [17:41] bencrisford1: go for https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/Community/MeetingAgenda [17:41] ok thanks :) [17:49] added some ideas LaserJock [17:50] I see that [17:50] aaggh scary, i created edit conflicts... [17:50] how did i manage that? [17:50] and what are they :P? [17:51] looks like you saved after I did [17:51] oh [17:52] how do we fix it? [17:52] I can fix it [17:52] (it didn't give me a warning while editing though, odd) [17:53] anyway, all fixed :) [17:53] hi pleia2! [17:53] hey LaserJock! [17:59] I think we're going to have to run a fairly tight meeting or it's going to take forever [18:00] Hi All [18:00] Meeting in a couple hours yes? [18:01] Where? [18:02] in 1hr here [18:02] OH! [18:02] Thanks, I'll be there [18:03] here [18:04] LaserJock: if its here, want me to edit the agenda page [18:04] it says its in ubuntu-meeting [18:04] sure [18:04] * Lns waves [18:05] LaserJock: I put it at the top of the agenda instea [18:05] instead( [18:05] instead* [18:07] LaserJock: tight meeting? [18:07] not a lot of wandering around [18:08] is the agenda set ? [18:08] not a lot of wandering around as in no room for ideas? [18:08] no [18:08] I mean we can't spend 1 hr on a single topic [18:11] Hello! [18:11] Sorry, I'm out of town today, and taking care of a problem. [18:12] So I'm not going to be able to show, but... [18:12] I did get Sabayon 2.25 to compile cleanly. [18:12] For ther record, here's what I'll commit to. [18:12] 1) Learning packaging to help with bug fixing [18:12] 2) fixig sabayon [18:13] 3) Helping to bring the LTSP and Edubuntu Handbook documents up-to-date [18:13] 4) (if time permits) coming up with a preliminary LDAP implementation, with a patch for systems-tools-backends to allow user-and-group tools to use ldap [18:14] Someone post the results of the meeting to the mailing list. [18:14] Cheers [18:14] sbalneav: thanks [18:15] Hi everybody from Spain [18:16] hello [18:18] i'm willing to run multiple test installations and do real time testing with feedback. i don't know the proper tools in ubuntu and if their too clunky (dig through multiple links, multiple registration) i'll think about it [18:18] Hello LaserJock, im a member of GuadalinexEdu development team, we are highly interested in collaboration [18:19] great [18:21] The main difference between GuadalinexEdu and Edubuntu is the structure of "Education" menu [18:22] oh really? [18:22] do you have a screenshot of it? [18:22] we organize applications by subjects [18:22] Im going to upload it now [18:25] highvoltage: when is the meeting exactly? [18:26] 4 min ? [18:26] 34 min [18:26] LaserJock, http://www.guadalinexedu.org/guadalinexedu_science_menu.png [18:27] asanchez: very nice [18:27] asanchez: we've worked on some similar idea [18:27] asanchez: how are you changing the menu? [18:27] now we are doing nasty things [18:27] we overwrite .desktops using dpkg-divert [18:27] meeting already started? [18:28] * nubae scrolls uo [18:28] up even [18:28] we use one package for each ubuntu original package in order to modify menu entry [18:29] asanchez: hmm, that is kinda nasty [18:29] yes, we know [18:29] asanchez: I think you could use a package based on edubuntu-menus to fix that [18:29] but we have only 3 months to package all the applications and we dont have the known-how [18:30] asanchez: better menus is definitely something Edubuntu is interested in [18:30] asanchez: yeah, using XDG you don't have to mess with the .desktops at all [18:30] just add in a .menu file with the new structure [18:31] there will be very nice if we can organize Education menu depending on student profile [18:31] * Ahmuck_ just had an ephiphany [18:31] we have some specific applications for teachers that only appears when teachers log in [18:31] asanchez: yep, I think that can be done fairly easily [18:32] asanchez: log in ? ie, ltsp ? [18:32] Ahmuck_, we dont use LTSP in schools [18:32] we have try TCOS [18:32] how r they logging in ? [18:32] ok, /me will google [18:33] they authenticate against LDAP server [18:33] back [18:33] http://www.tcosproject.org/ [18:33]