[02:56] * Seeker` -> bed [03:03] LjL called the ops in #ubuntu-offtopic (mib_5sr7x6 might, like, play with himself in ##unavailable or something perhaps?) [03:21] how absolutely /awful/ of me to not coddle that troll [04:15] Um [04:15] ChanSevr? [04:15] really? [04:16] probably warrants a !staff? [04:16] Flannel, where? [04:17] elky: He's n #u, and a handful of others, vim, giy, c++ perl, c haskell, arch, deb gentoo, freenode, ror, fedora [04:17] he's hassling #f [04:18] !staff [04:18] Hey nalioth, jenda, rob, SportChick, seanw, Dave2, Christel, tomaw, Gary, Vorian, PriceChild or stew, I could use a bit of your time :) [04:18] yo [04:18] who what? [04:18] vorian, see #freenode [04:18] vorian: Might want to check out ChanSevr, who I imagine is trying to misrepresent himself as Chanserv [04:19] I haven't talked with him about it, but his nick is odd at any rate [04:19] Flannel, i suspect it's the same twit who insisted on teaching us how to ban based on ident without considering we dont for a reason. [04:19] yeah, not anymore [04:20] ta [04:20] thanks for the heads up [04:20] I was looking for old startup scripts [04:21] likely story [04:21] :D [04:31] :/ [04:31] it's true [05:09] Howdy Bacta, how can we help you today? [05:09] Howdy, how are you? [05:10] Doing fine. Yourself? [05:10] Alright, was wondering if you could look into my ban. Currently only ikonia and elky have been willing to do this and I dont believe Im getting anywhere with them [05:15] Bacta: I'm curious, what makes us think you should be allowed in our channels? [05:16] Because Im no threat to your channels, all I did was make a joke which was not well judged. I won´t say it again [05:17] Bacta: It's not the first time you've made that joke. And then after the repeat Monkey joke (which you were banned for the first time as well), you proceeeded to joke about rmrf the next day. [05:18] That was not in #ubuntu, and everyone could see it was a joke ... in fact I specifically said "not rmrf¨ IIRC [05:18] Flannel, lets not forget his history of admitting to trolling. [05:19] Bacta: Theres no significant difference between #ubuntu and #kubuntu as far as we're concerned. Theyre both Ubuntu channels. [05:19] ok [05:19] I apologize for that [05:19] malicious commands are never amusing. [05:20] No modern distro will let you do an rmrf like that [05:20] we dont care. [05:20] and youŕe on ignore now elky [05:20] i dont care. [05:22] Flannel, i dont think that helps his case any, do you. [05:23] Bacta: the thing I'm most concerned with is the fact that recently you came here and insulted an operator after being told you weren't going to be unbanned. [05:24] ikonia frustrates me, after I received the ban he/she gave me a list of things to do about my ban and he contradicted himself and was just plain confusing. Ive spent all the time I'm ever going to spend with that individual [05:26] I´ve added him to my ignore list as I have trouble holding my composure with those types of people [05:26] Bacta: What was the confusion/contradiction about? [05:27] Also, for the record, it's generally not a good idea to put operators on ignore. [05:27] It said I should PM the banning op [05:27] Which I did but he said that was wrong and I had to talk to him about it in here [05:27] yeah I know but I don´t want to risk losing my temper in a place like this [05:28] if you cannot control your temper here just because an operator speaks to you, then you're not going to manage to behave in the channels. [05:28] It's probably better to just contain your mood. But anyway, the proper procedure is to contact the operator somehow. Some operators prefer chats happen in this channel instead of in a query. [05:29] I spent a long time trying to contact them but then just gave up, the ¨best¨ I´ve gotten is with the likes of elky and ikonia of whom I´ve both found most unhelpful [05:29] we're not obliged to unban. [05:31] Isn't ikonia the one who banned you? [05:32] Nope, it said it was someone else [05:32] That is, ikonia in #kubuntu and elky in #ubuntu. [05:32] Can´t remember who it was, happened a while ago [05:32] It didn´t say elky on the ban [05:32] Oh, I'm sorry. You're right. [05:33] who was it? I´ll try msging them again [05:33] And, yes, elky is the one who banned you from #ubuntu, so your conversation with her would have fit that bill. [05:33] In #kubuntu, it was jussi01 [05:34] If it was elky I don´t want to discuss it with her due to some previous issues. I´ll be happy to discuss those in private if you like [05:34] I´ve got a very good reason for my stance on that [05:34] yes, he hates that i know that he does the same stuff on other servers. [05:35] Right, well, like I said before, were it not for your recnt run in with the operators, I'd have no real issue removing your ban. [05:35] Flannel: I apologize for that, actually I´m glad I left right after that as I could´ve said worse [05:35] :( [05:36] Bacta: and how is that sort of behavior supposed to work in #ubuntu? We unban you so that we can ban you again once you get frustrated with someone? That's not a healthy situation. [05:36] Flannel: It won´t happen again, I´ll be very very careful [05:38] and there will be no more jokes [05:38] I believe you'll work on it. How about this. Let's give you some time to learn to be more careful about it. Come back in, lets say, four days. And let me know how well you've been able to control yourself in other activities/interactions/etc. [05:38] Yes, I'm expecting you to be honest. If you don't think you've made enough progress, don't come back in four days, but come back once you feel that you're ready. [05:39] sounds good but what shall I do regarding my media share issue til then? [05:39] Because if you're not ready, you'll just be banned again, and it'll be even harder for us to believe you're a good addition to #ubuntu [05:39] ubuntuforums.org [05:40] they'll also ban if he introduces himself as 'bactas my name, trollin's my game' though. [05:40] I agree. [05:40] you agree to what? [05:40] Flannel, he's at least pretending to have client ignore on [05:40] to elky's suggestion. [05:42] ? [05:42] ubuntuforums.org, Bacta. [05:44] In #ubuntu, doc_brown said: !doc_brown is awesome [05:45] !scope > doc_brown [05:45] What´s this? ;) [05:45] Bacta: is there anything else we can help you with tonight? [05:46] Probably not [05:46] Bacta: Have a nice evening then. [05:46] thanks Flannel, you´ve been one of the reasonable ones in here :) [05:46] night [05:46] you are insane. [05:46] Flannel, ask richih about him. [05:58] * genii sips [06:22] mindrape is back in... [06:24] >mindrape< please change your nick, it is distressing to rape victims. [06:30] no response [07:04] Fujisan is supposed to be banned in #u, right? [07:04] * Flannel is having trouble sorting out the BT [07:04] @btlogin [07:04] see if I remember how this works [07:05] @login [07:05] The operation succeeded. [07:05] @btlogin [07:05] Yeah, he is. [07:06] alright... so randomly depending on the day I get complaints from OPs in #ubuntu saying my name is offensive. [07:07] my name is not intended to be offensive and if you look it up on urbandictionary you can see it is not even remotely sexual. [07:07] I've been banned randomly for this name too. [07:07] mindrape, you've been banned at your request. [07:07] Is there any way to get all of you on the same page in terms of randomly banning people for perceived offensive nicks? [07:07] elky - I said I'm not going to change my nick and if you must ban me then do so. [07:08] I have a huge list of "offensive" names I could share with you [07:08] mindrape, are you implying that sexual assault victims should first have to read stuff on urbandictionary before being allowed to be upset? [07:08] I can either paste them in the channel or in privmsg [07:08] elky - you should realize that mindrape is a band name. [07:08] just because the word "rape" is in it doesnt mean its sexual in nature. [07:08] "rape" if you look it up in the dictionary means to take away... [07:08] if you "rape" the land of its resources it doesnt have any sexual connotation [07:08] I'd like to speak to somebody intelligently about this or file my own absurd complaints with about 20 names in the channel [07:09] mindrape, you've always been asked politely, and this outburst from you is less than polite. [07:09] it's a tad frustrating because you seem to ban me whenever you see me but nobody else seems to take issue w it. [07:10] elky: I don't see how he's being impolite. [07:10] no, we dont ban oyu when we see you. we first ask, then ban when you request it. [07:10] just depends on the time of day and what your mood is. It's not an "outburst" it's "frustration"... hopefully you can appreciate the difference. [07:10] Flannel, to imply that someone traumatised by sexual assault should have to read the revolting stuff on urbandictionary is quite impolite. [07:10] And thats supposed to make rape victims feel, when the done to them is undermind [07:10] Well I'd like to paste about 20 or so names in #ubuntu that I think you should also talk to the people about... [07:11] may I? [07:11] elky: His content has nothign to do with him being polite in this channel. His *nick* could be percieved as impolite, but his mannerisms in this channel are not. [07:11] S/feel/feel better/ [07:11] Flannel, his nick is what people see before what he says. [07:12] elky - go look at the logs in #ubuntu. I help hundreds of people every day. It's offensive to me that you quickly assume my name has sexual connotations and ban me. [07:12] mindrape, you have always been banned at your own request. [07:12] elky: That has nothing to do with "this outburst" unless you are attempting to claim that joining this channel was "an outburst" [07:12] Flannel told me to come here to discuss my concern. I'll gladly move this to privmsg if its "offending" you. [07:13] Flannel, his implying that we ban on whim is untrue. untruthfulness is impolite. [07:13] elky: He's expressing concern over what is seen as whimsical, as it's inconsistent. [07:13] Flannel, his implication that we are not discussing this intelligently just because we're not agreeing with him is impolite. [07:14] elky - you have already made the decision that my name is offensive and are unwilling to hear my point of view. [07:14] elky - can you appreciate that there is a band called mindrape? can you appreciate that there is a formal definition for mindrape that is NOT sexual? [07:15] mindrape, i dont particuarly care if there is such a band, and i would certainly not listen to something with a name like that. [07:16] mindrape, it is my opinion that your name is distressing to rape victims as they are not going to go wading through the filth on urbandictionary, or google something with the word 'rape' in it, so as to satisfy you. [07:16] mindrape, this is not about you, this is about how your name is perceived to people who have experienced a trauma. [07:16] I could tell you theres a nokia that has nothing to do with phones. It still wouldnt help with the impressions on people who havent heard about it. [07:18] elky - well I can't manage people incorrect assumptions about my name. I can appreciate that there are potentially rape victims in the channel but my name has nothing at all to do with that and I've never received any complaints from anybody but you. [07:18] mindrape, rape victims are unlikely to contact someone who has a visible disregard for their situation. [07:18] Because the complaints have come to us [07:18] I wouldn't wish rape on anybody and its a very serious matter. However, once again, my name has nothing to do w it. As you can see from my behavior in the channel I am only helpful and am not a social cancer. [07:19] mindrape, you as a person are not a problem. your chosen handle however is discouraging to both me and others who have complained about it. [07:19] LSD200 LSD|Ninja - these names promote drug use and are offensive. kancerman - this name is offensive as it mocks cancer patients and those that have lost loved ones to cancer. chemikalz - this name is offensive as it promotes drug use. b0xxy - this name is offensive as it promotes 4chans /b/ board which is repulsive, [07:20] Just some examples of names that could be "perceived" as offensive.... [07:20] mindrape, you're grasping at major straws with the last two. [07:21] elky - b0xxy, especially as spelled, is pretty specific to 4chan. [07:21] mindrape, i'd have to know 4chan or be a regular to it to know that. and i do not. [07:21] jerrymcfarts - this name is offensive and childish Dogmeat - this name is insulting to Asian/Mexican people - a common joke that they cook dogs/cats in their food KingOfDos - this name promotes denial of service attacks and promotes illegal behavior. It is offensive she_dyed - this play on words is offensive to people who have lost loved ones (female) [07:22] To me the way you are viewing these examples as absurd is the same way I view your concern w my name... [07:22] its just a name. none of these people have done anything inappropriate in the channel. [07:22] none of the things you have mentoioned are anywhere near as grotesque as rape. [07:22] murdering animals and cooking them is pretty offensive to me. [07:22] mindrape your point is made. I'd suggest that you make a formal complaint if you think it's appropriate, since nothing is going to get resolved here apparently. [07:23] nickrud - whats the process for that? [07:23] !appeal [07:23] If you disagree with a decision by an operator, please first pay #ubuntu-ops a visit. If you are still unhappy, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IrcTeam/AppealProcess for the steps you should take. If you feel the need to discuss the channel rules, please contact the ops on IRC or via the email address on the aforementioned page. [07:24] i'll have to tell my asian butcher not to label his dog meat as dog meat though. he'll be most surprised. [07:24] you know, the meat scraps he has for feeding to dogs. [07:24] elky - that is racist... a bit of a double standard and I find it a bit beligerent on your part that you're mocking my concern. [07:25] mindrape, dog food is hardly on the scale of sexual assault. [07:25] elky: Please stop. [07:25] Flannel, only if he does. [07:25] elky - I think PETA would disagree w you. Taking life and forcefully using somebody are apples and oranges. Both disgusting but depending on who you ask... [07:26] elky: You're behaving like a child. [07:26] Flannel, hardly. i am using the same arguements as he is. [07:26] so you're mocking me? [07:26] mindrape: Your point has been stated, I don't think anything constructive more could be said at this point. [07:26] Flannel, so if you insist on calling me a child, call him one. [07:26] alright... peace out. [07:27] Flannel, i think you need to learn tact in talking with other operaters in front of people. [07:27] elky: You need to ditch the personal crusades. You're trivializing all of the work the operators do. [07:27] Flannel, this is not a personal crusade, and this stance you're taking is one reason why it's taken so long for you to be granted ops in -ot. [07:28] elky: I'm not going to let you behave that way, *especially* in front of people. [07:28] elky: You mean me being actually objective when it comes to dealing with people? [07:28] Flannel, please stop being contrarian to other operators in front of people. [07:28] Flannel, no, i mean you being insulting. [07:28] Flannel, unless you like being called childish. [07:29] elky: Operators are not infallable. We need to police ourselves just as much as we police others. [07:29] Flannel, operators should not *insult* other operators in front of users. [07:29] Flannel, and that's *exactly* what you just did. [07:30] elky: I wasn't insulting you. I asked you to stop and told you that you were resorting to the tactics of a juvenile when dealing with him. [07:30] elky: You're behaving like a child. [07:30] that is an insult. [07:31] No, it's really not. I'm expressing a concern regarding your behavior and how it reflects poorly on all of us. [07:31] Flannel, no, you insulted me. [07:32] If that's how you feel, then I'd like to apologise. That was not my intent. [07:37] Sgc53 [07:40] Flannel, for the record, mindrape has been asked to give that nick away since before i was an op. [07:40] he usually asks to be banned. [07:41] i'm not sure who keeps removing it though [08:05] P4R41? [08:30] just want one more thing clarified in the logs... I have never "asked" to be banned. That is absurd and ridiculous. Nobody would ask to be banned from a channel they frequent and support. Elky seems to be hanging on that and for my complaint (its in the logs) I want it be called out that she is making inaccurate statements. [08:59] whut [09:09] moo [09:25] *tumbleweed* [09:55] elky: sry, was away [10:36] -06:49:29- mindrape: no. ban me if you want. pretty pathetic though. [10:36] there, clarified. [10:38] i could also look through my logs and find the time he asked me to, as well [10:55] now I am insulted by bacta [10:56] I am not sure why "conradicting advise" I gave him other than walk him through the process of the irc appeals process that he insisted he must follow [10:56] oatgruel ♥ [10:56] and in my view if he has operators on ignore in this channel he should not be unbanned until he can deal with them, as one of them was the one that set the ban [10:57] Flannel: ^ as you're going to be dealing with him in 4 days [11:02] good morning [11:02] hello [11:03] my ban up yet? [11:03] what's the status with the IRC council, did you get a response ? [11:03] (I mean a second response as I know you got a first) [11:03] he sent another mail? [11:04] pici was typing a response was the last I heard [11:04] hence checking the status before commenting [11:04] I sent one email. [11:04] I will wait [11:04] hang on [11:05] on hang [11:05] TheFunkbomb: ok, thank you for coming back [11:05] okay [11:06] just want to check the status with the IRC council first, so you had you're response back, and you where not happy with it, and I "Thought" you'd sent a response back as pici said he was typing you a response, if you clarify that we can sort it out [11:06] it may just be my miss-understanding [11:07] No, I sent nothing to Pici or any response to the response I received. [11:07] ahh ok, so pici must have been responding to what you said in here - ok that makes more sense [11:08] elky: if this is with the council - can I still resolve this here ? [11:08] don't want to break any protocol / chain [11:09] if not, no big deal [11:09] if it's not a big deal why do you keep coming in here and asking ? [11:09] I'm trying to help you here, but you have to help me out without the "comments" [11:10] TheFunkbomb: I'll be %100 clear [11:10] ikonia, if he's learned to apologise in a proper and sincere manner, then his ban can be lifted. the issue that's keeping him banned is that he apologises that we felt a certain way, not for doing the wrong thing. [11:10] elky: this is what I'm trying to work out - if I can get past the comments again [11:10] I apologized for breaking the CoC at least 5 times. [11:10] TheFunkbomb: do you want to be unbanned yes/no [11:11] I'm doing yes/no answer here to be clear - so please try to work with me [11:11] what do I have to do to get unbanned? [11:11] TheFunkbomb, but you have not apologised for the bad act. just that it was against the rules. [11:11] what's the difference? [11:11] alot. [11:11] one is saying 'i'm sorry you suck' the other is saying 'i'm sorry i did the wrong thing' [11:11] TheFunkbomb: help me out here, and we can resolve this [11:12] see, one is putting blame on us, the other is accepting blame. we are not to blame for what you did. [11:12] * gnomefreak puts popcorn down and pauses IRC so can get a smoke [11:12] I don't see any resolution if I have to keep jumping through hoops. If I apologize for the bad act, she'll just come up with something else I have to do or some reason why THAT apology isn't good enough. [11:12] TheFunkbomb: stop [11:12] I apologize for breaking the CoC [11:12] I am trying to help - [11:12] TheFunkbomb, proove it. [11:13] I also apologize that I misunderstood your original intentions ikonia [11:14] TheFunkbomb: ok, lets go down the list with yes/no responses to make sure there are no miss-understandings, ok? [11:14] TheFunkbomb: this is not being funny, this is just %100 clear [11:14] please... [11:14] TheFunkbomb, sincerely admit that 'seeking help to harrass someone' was wrong, and see if i don't unban you [11:14] TheFunkbomb: 1.) you understand that harrassing women / gathering help to do so is wrong [11:14] yes/no [11:15] I understand it's against the CoC. [11:15] TheFunkbomb: no - that's not what I asked [11:15] I have to go to bed. I'm in no mood for this. [11:15] ok [11:15] we'll leave it there th4en [11:15] I can't be any more clear than this [11:16] I am trying to resolve it with him and he doesn't want it, I suggest we drop this game - as it's clearly a game [11:16] "I want to be unbanned" every day then "hey it's no big deal" [11:16] why is he here every day if it's no big deal [11:16] yes/no responses can't be any more clearer and he still refuses [11:16] he is saying 'I'm sorry you got offended', ie a non-apology apology [11:16] I suggest dropping this [11:16] bazhang, exactly [11:17] it's clear he knows what he's doing and trying to be clever with it, I see no point in wasting more effort with him [11:17] he'd be a much better fit for arch-ot imo [11:17] I've tried about 10 tens, and if yes/no responses can't get an answer then what's the point [11:18] ikonia, whileever he comes in we should give him the opportunity. [11:18] elky: yes but it's the same thing every time [11:18] and look at the attitude [11:18] hey unban me [11:18] one moment please [11:18] no problem I don't care if I'm unbanned or not [11:18] so why come in every day ? [11:18] ikonia, just cut straight to the yes/no and see if he leaves quicker next time. [11:19] yes/no is the only way I feel it possible to communicate with this guy without being caught up in a word trap [11:19] or at least being trying to get caught in a word trap - from both sides [11:21] laters all, enjoy [11:21] right, I'm off out on a secrect mission, made good by the fact that the sun is shining [11:22] hehe [11:51] !what is the factoid for arab? [11:51] I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :) [11:52] !arab [11:52] Sorry, I don't know anything about arab [11:52] don't know the country code... [11:52] anyone? [11:52] Mamarok, because it's not a country, it's a language. [11:53] elky: I know, found for Saudi Arabia... [11:53] sec while i google for 'icann country codes' [11:53] !sa [11:53] For the Saudi Arabia team : /join #ubuntu-sa : للانظمام الى قناة الفريق السعودي - For Arabic language support, please : /join #ubuntu-arabic : للحصول على الدعم باللغة العربية [11:53] ... [11:55] meanwhile, why does indygunfreak insist on arguing and feeling the right to take out his anger at something else on our channels. [12:29] because. [12:40] oh, now that i'm not doing other things, i see why mindrape got back in to #ubuntu. he got a cloak. and ban evaded. === Mez is now known as Lethargy === Lethargy is now known as Mez === Mez is now known as Lethargy === Lethargy is now known as Mez [13:06] Mez: make up your mind? [13:07] yeah, was trying to get the bot password reset [13:37] i usually make a second connection to the network for that kind of stuff [13:40] Mez fails [13:41] Gary: yes :D [13:55] elky: your slip shows [14:00] hat [14:00] funny hat [15:13] i never knew about !multijava. wouldn't it be worth adding to !java? (either referring to, or actually embedding it in it, i think it can be made short enough) [15:14] In ubottu, LjL said: !no java is To install a Java runtime/interpreter on Ubuntu, look at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Java - For the Sun Java runtime install "sun-java6-jre" from the !Multiverse repository - Use « sudo update-java-alternatives » to select the Java implementation to use. [15:14] In ubottu, LjL said: !no multijava is java [16:01] meh [17:37] hello can i speak to someone please it seems i was banned a month ago from #ubuntu and i cant recall why [17:38] can someone please tell me how long the ban is for? [17:38] im sorry if you dont like me asking this [17:39] fujisan, i'm seriously doubting that it has so easily slipped your mind [17:39] i have a lot on my mind [17:40] i was klined for advertising my channel but that kline was removed already [17:41] and i really need to ask some ubuntu questions [17:41] :( [17:41] cant you see how long the ban is for elky? [17:44] fujisan: there is no set time for the ban. it will be removed when the operator who banned you sees fit. [17:44] who banned me then? [17:44] or if he's in doubt, the consensus [17:44] she/he [17:45] ok [17:45] thanks i guess [17:46] how do i part channels in irssi does anyone know? [17:46] /part [17:46] ok ty [18:00] you have to be a genius or read the documentation very carefully to know that [18:01] one has to wonder how he got online with it if he can't even /part channels [18:35] LjL called the ops in #ubuntu (h0ly5h17) [18:39] LjL called the ops in #ubuntu (h0ly5h17) [18:42] !test [18:42] sigh... again? I'm busy here, I already told you it failed. [18:42] uh. it unlocked.. [18:54] *yawn* [18:55] Yep [19:14] !ping [19:14] ping yourself ;-) really the diodes all down my left side are sore [19:21] FloodBot3 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (exploit) [19:21] knew it [19:22] the host was *so* dubious and blacklisted [19:22] hello all [19:23] Howdy ikonia [19:23] hello [19:23] what's happening today [19:28] the gnewsense people have been debating all day over whether or not an -offtopic channel would be good for them [19:28] lulz [19:28] oh lord [19:29] problem solved by a suggestion that the discussion is offtopic and should be moved to -ot [19:29] topyli: are you in the gnewsense channel ? [19:29] heh [19:29] ikonia: yes [19:29] ooh, is it growing yet ? [19:29] slowly [19:30] good good [19:30] ompaul and bbrazil are trying to hand over maintaineship but people are scared to accept [19:30] they must be made up with the ati opensource drivers [19:30] why/who are they trying to hand over to ? [19:31] well, anyone in the project who's been around for a while and knows how the project works [19:33] the irishman has decided he'd rather embrace the joy of proprietary but fast 3D acceleration? :P [19:34] snip [19:35] hardly :) [19:36] well they did work hard and successfully to get X freed [19:36] some stupid drivers are a minor nuicanse :) [19:36] time to go back to reading [19:37] topyli: so basically more like "mission accomplished, we'll move on to something else"? [19:38] i think it's more like "i'm tired" [19:39] besides, linux still needs to be freed. they worked for the libre-linux project and provided the build scripts to make building free linux kernels easier [19:39] that's not a mission accomplished [23:05] charitwo: how can we help you? [23:06] #ubuntu-sucks is a channel ? [23:06] wondering if there was someone around to deal with #ubuntu-sucks - someone mentioned it appearing in a list [23:06] heh [23:07] I think that would be an IRCC issue? [23:07] anyone who joins is auto-opped [23:07] orly [23:07] nalioth: ping ^^ [23:07] maybe I should kb all the other users :) [23:08] charitwo: Thanks for letting us know. [23:08] :) [23:09] may want staff or a GC forward it to ##unavailable or #you_have_got_to_be_kidding [23:09] hehe [23:10] charitwo: Well nal fits in both categories, so hopefully he saw my ping [23:10] w/ii elky [23:10] oops [23:10] She isn't active [23:11] Prodego: anything we can o to help? [23:11] eh, I was looking for the group contact [23:12] any particular reason? [23:12] lovely [23:12]