[00:14] <asanchez> Hi stgraber
[00:15] <asanchez> Im Antonio Sanchez, from Isotrol (Canonical Silver Partner)
[01:38] <Ahmuck_> got a question.  if we have a support contract with canonical, and submit a problem to them, they will put somebody on it to fix it?
[01:44] <HedgeMage> Ahmuck_: I don't know... read the terms of your contract or contact Canonical about it.
[01:44] <HedgeMage> AFAIK there are no Canonical reps in here.
[05:24] <Vantrax> I've seen a bit of fuss kicked up about edubuntu lately, how healthy is it really?
[07:24] <highvoltage> where is pygi?
[07:39] <Ahmuck> *yawn*
[07:39] <Ahmuck> point me to bug reporting
[07:39] <Ahmuck> somebody ?
[08:21] <pygi> hi highvoltage :p
[08:21] <stgraber> hi pygi and highvoltage
[08:21] <highvoltage> hi pygi
[08:21] <highvoltage> and stgraber
[08:21] <pygi> and hi stgraber :p
[08:22] <pygi> stgraber: highvoltage : where are you folks located? You must be somewhere far away :D
[08:22] <highvoltage> pygi: lol
[08:22] <stgraber> ;)
[08:23] <highvoltage> (hopefully no one will notice that we're standing next to each other talking over IRC)
[08:23] <pygi> highvoltage: o com'on xD
[08:23] <pygi> why did you tell them that? :D
[08:24] <highvoltage> :D
[08:24]  * pygi shoots highvoltage 
[08:27] <Ahmuck> channel get's electrified because of pygi's highvoltage gun
[08:28] <pygi> Ahmuck: :P
[08:31]  * pygi shoots stgraber with his updates
[08:31] <pygi> too much shooting going on, we should stop :)
[08:38] <stgraber> heh
[08:42] <pygi> stgraber: com'on! :p
[08:45] <pygi> stgraber: ping test ;P
[08:46] <Ahmuck> ack
[08:46] <stgraber> pygi: pong test
[08:48] <pygi> stgraber: hey, and how much did it take for the ping to reach you? xD
[08:57] <pygi> stgraber: highvoltage : w00t, edubuntu on the screen :p
[09:13] <pygi> highvoltage: stgraber : I am disappointed ;P
[09:14] <stgraber> yeah :)
[09:39] <Ahmuck> muting the sound, and sound control on the edubuntu ltsp server does not work
[09:39] <Ahmuck> it's broke
[09:39] <Ahmuck> where do i file a bug
[09:42] <pygi> is anyone from the edubuntu community at the UDS? :P
[09:42] <pygi> apart from me, stgraber , highvoltage and laserjock
[10:30] <bencrisford1> Vantrax|Home: Hey :)
[10:30] <bencrisford1> I saw your message to the mailing list :)
[10:30] <Ahmuck> as well as i
[10:31] <Vantrax|Home> Hi
[10:31] <Vantrax|Home> Just catching up on the back logs now
[10:31] <Vantrax|Home> seems like people are getting tied up with the devil in the details a bit
[10:33] <Vantrax|Home> I have a few questions from reading the threads from this month
[10:34] <nubae> Vantrax|Home: saw u're mail... goo d that u are interested in helping out
[10:34] <nubae> where do you see yourself getting involved?
[10:34] <Vantrax|Home> not sure at this stage
[10:35] <Vantrax|Home> Im already on the board of another major ubuntu community project that is sucking up alot of time
[10:36] <Vantrax|Home> the comment made about Edubuntu vs packages is accurate Edubuntu makes it appear to be a distribution
[10:37] <bencrisford1> Vantrax|Home: Just out of interest; what project is it you are on the board for?
[10:37] <Vantrax|Home> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning
[10:38] <bencrisford1> Ah, yes I have signed up for that project
[10:38] <bencrisford1> at the moment im just working out how i can get involved#
[10:38] <nubae> well, thats the image we'd like to change... some of us have commited ourselves to turn edubuntu back into a distro
[10:38] <nubae> as is the case for xubunut, studio, kubuntu, etc
[10:38] <Vantrax|Home> atm were in a bit of a holding pattern. We have a Canonical go ahead from sabfl but were waiting on CC to approve
[10:39] <Vantrax|Home> nubae, that turns into a numbers game then, how many contributors do you have? Can you sustain the level of development required?
[10:39] <bencrisford1> ill follow this project whereever it goes
[10:40] <bencrisford1> I think we have alot of people willing to contribute, but perhaps not as much as others
[10:40] <nubae> the idea that its just metapackages at this stage makes it seem almost useless... we really need a well themed educational distro that contains both officially supported edu apps, the current packs, and universe edu apps, which we are in the process of testing, and meta packaging, then we include a nice edu theme, combine with some backend stuff like moodle, mahara, class, schooltool, and finally incorporate ltsp...
[10:40] <nubae> then we have a distro we can all actually use
[10:40] <nubae> Vantrax|Home: right it does
[10:41] <bencrisford1> Vantrax|Home: This action item was decided at the meeting on friday concerning the learning project:
[10:41] <bencrisford1> "Action item: bencrisford2 to look into collaboration opportunities with the Ubuntu Learning project"
[10:41] <nubae> but there are many folks that have lately commited themselves, so we'll see what happens
[10:41] <Vantrax|Home> lol:P I made that easy for you
[10:41] <nubae> I'Ve been around long enough
[10:41] <bencrisford1> I guess I can talk to you about that Vantrax|Home :)
[10:41] <Vantrax|Home> That you can, what can we do for you?
[10:41] <nubae> to see both action and inaction, one has to have hope that this time round, people will pick up the ball
[10:42] <bencrisford1> Vantrax, ill PM you, there is two converstations going at once here :P
[10:42] <Vantrax> nubae its my experience you need to have several short measurable goals to get the ball rolling. Ones everyone can get behind and see done quickly.
[10:43] <Vantrax> before that you need to look at what is critical, then prioritise, for identity i think your right about theme, but you need themes for different targets
[10:43] <nubae> yeah, for me its about turning it back into a distro... thats where my involvment lies... that and sugar, which I currently package for opensuse, but using the same build tools, we can package for ubuntu too
[10:44] <nubae> anyway, the distro stuff, I wont be able to look into for at least a month, but we have time, we have commited to doing that along side LTS releases
[10:44] <nubae> after all, most teachers/sysadmins at schools, dont want to install every 6 months
[10:45] <Vantrax> as a sysadmin, 2 years
[10:45] <Vantrax> minimum
[10:45] <nubae> currently the addon is released every 6 months.... also, we will move to a dvd/usb live distro method, so it can be shown off in schools
[10:45] <Vantrax> you want a least one year to develop on a new version while the old is still supported
[10:45] <nubae> right... LTS is 2-4 years support, which is plenty
[10:46] <nubae> right... which is why the next release for karmic will continue to be the addon, perhaps with an extras addon containing universe apps...
[10:46] <nubae> then for the LTS, which is about a year from now, we will release the live distro in dvd/usb format
[10:46] <Vantrax> the live distro will go a long way I think, cprofitt works with the US edu system somewhere, he would be good to talk to
[10:46] <nubae> so, there u have the background, now IÄ'm curious where u want to be involved
[10:47] <Vantrax> id do a little bit of surveying on http://community.k12opensource.com http://www.classroom20.com about what educators are after
[10:48] <Vantrax> how many teachers are in this team?
[10:48] <alkisg> The problem isn't the goals, it's the lack of contributors..
[10:48] <Vantrax> nubae not quite sure yet, im still working out where I can make a difference with the limitations on time that I have
[10:55] <Vantrax> from talkig with ben I think i have and idea how this could work
[10:56] <Vantrax> alkisg what was the last goal the team achived? is there a plan somewhere?
[10:57] <Vantrax> how many problems come from configuration issues in schools. Teachers not understanding how to do something?
[10:57] <alkisg> Vantrax: what team?
[10:57] <Vantrax> installing ltsp, or updating with local repositories, or pushing out patches and updates
[10:58] <Vantrax> alkisg the team that works on edubuntu
[10:58] <alkisg> The problem isn't the goals, it's that noone's left to form a team
[10:58] <Vantrax> ahh
[10:58] <alkisg> In the previous releases, LaserJock almost single-handedly produced the add-on
[10:59] <Vantrax> ill see what support I can drum up then, where is the biggest hole, developers?
[10:59] <alkisg> Now a few people want edubuntu to become a distro again, and that's what they'll work on, if given a chance
[10:59] <Vantrax> thats tough
[10:59] <alkisg> Yes, we lack devs
[10:59] <Vantrax> unfortunately so does Ubuntu
[10:59] <highvoltage> yay I have power again \o/
[11:00] <highvoltage> btw, I found the guadalinex guys
[11:00] <highvoltage> told them that we're having a session later
[11:03] <stgraber> highvoltage: is session confirmed ?
[11:05] <stgraber> I don't see it on the schedule
[11:06] <pygi> stgraber: jono didn't confirm
[11:06] <highvoltage> stgraber: asking pygi on jabber now, hopefully he'll show up here as well
[11:06] <highvoltage> ah cool
[11:06] <highvoltage> (as in pygi is here)
[11:06] <highvoltage> yeah jono is talkking a lot, we;ll just corner him after this session
[11:07] <stgraber> ok, if it's confirmed I can mention it during my plenary talk
[11:07] <pygi> stgraber: but its not yet
[11:08] <pygi> highvoltage: if you find him, please just tell him to check his email
[11:08] <stgraber> but I'll have to give the slides in half an hour or so
[11:11] <pygi> stgraber: :-/
[11:12] <pygi> stgraber: let me check the mail
[11:15] <pygi> no answer from jono, stgraber
[11:15] <stgraber> dohh
[11:37] <Ahmuck_> got a question.  any reason one can't use qimo at the base distro?
[11:52] <bencrisford1> pygi: You at the UDS then?
[11:53] <pygi> bencrisford1: yes
[11:53] <bencrisford1> how is it?
[11:53] <pygi> stgraber: did you find the guadelinux folks
[11:53] <pygi> bencrisford1: its ok, we're discussing some bazaar stuff :)
[11:53] <stgraber> pygi: yup, going to have lunch with them
[11:53] <pygi> stgraber: oh!
[11:53] <asanchez> we are here :D
[11:53] <pygi> asanchez: !
[11:53] <pygi> why didn't you wait for us outside after the plenary?
[11:53] <asanchez> ok
[11:53] <pygi> lol
[11:53] <stgraber> asanchez: where ? :) (I'm currently in the lobby)
[11:53] <pygi> ok what? :D
[11:54] <asanchez> we can lunch together
[11:54] <AngusRF> hi there
[11:54] <bencrisford1> AngusRF: Hey
[11:55] <AngusRF> my problem: I'Ve decided to create a new client image on my edubuntu 9.04 setup (because client-image-update falied). SO i moved the old i386 dir and did 'ltsp-build-client --arch i386'
[11:55] <AngusRF> now, the building process ended, saying  "E: couldn't find edubuntu-artwork-usplash"
[11:56] <AngusRF> And the clients do not boot anymore (logical, the client system is incomplete)
[11:56] <pygi> stgraber: if you want to go with us (with asanchez, and the rest of people) and bazaar people... just follow us :p
[11:56] <AngusRF> But a missing artwork package seems to me like a quite small problem that shouldn't affect the complete installation.
[11:56] <pygi> I think we'll go to lunch soon too
[11:56] <AngusRF> anyway, I don't understand WHY the packagen wasn't found
[11:56] <stgraber> pygi: where's lunch ?
[11:57] <AngusRF> do you know the problem?
[11:57] <pygi> stgraber: in this building
[11:57] <stgraber> pygi: ok, where ? :)
[11:57] <pygi> stgraber: in a restaurant :p
[11:58] <bencrisford1> AngusRF: Report it as a bug
[11:58] <pygi> stgraber: sorry, I don't have any idea :)
[11:58] <bencrisford1> im a lil busy right now
[11:58] <bencrisford1> but ill check it out later
[11:58] <pygi> bencrisford1: are you at UDS?
[11:58] <bencrisford1> nope :(
[11:58] <bencrisford1> where is UDS this year anyway?
[11:58] <AngusRF> okay
[11:58] <pygi> bencrisford1: Barcelona
[11:58] <bencrisford1> cool
[11:58] <pygi> AngusRF: sorry, its just that Edubuntu is in a state of mess right now :-/
[11:59] <AngusRF> too bad :(
[12:00] <pygi> stgraber: going to lunch now, see you there :)
[12:00] <stgraber> yeah, leaving for some food too.
[12:00] <pygi> stgraber: just find me somewhere
[12:04] <bencrisford1> stgraber, pygi: What time is it in barcelona?
[12:04] <bencrisford1> or have you already gone...?
[12:07] <AngusRF> its' probably 12:04 there
[12:13] <AngusRF> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/224899
[12:13] <AngusRF> that's for xubuntu
[12:13] <AngusRF> but it seem to be the same
[12:14] <AngusRF> hm nice bot
[12:24] <stgraber> bencrisford1: 13:24
[12:25] <bencrisford1> oh, :) 1 hour ahead of me stgraber
[12:37] <stgraber> bencrisford1: you in the uk ?
[12:47] <bencrisford1> yeah
[12:47] <bencrisford1> stgraber*
[13:16] <bencrisford1> AngusRF: Tell me about this bug then :)
[14:41] <AngusRF> okay, one more question: I've got edubuntu jaunty amd64 installed. I'm trying to do ltsp-build-client --arch i386. But it keeps failing, saying it cannot find "edubuntu-artwork-usplash". By now I have found out  that this is logical, because the package has been removed from jaunty. I found a comment to a bugreport stating that it has been replace by edubuntu-artwork. Is there a way for me to make the client system not depend on that no-l
[14:41] <AngusRF> onger-existing package?
[14:48] <sbalneav> Morning all
[14:49] <sbalneav> Morning all
[14:53] <AngusRF> morning sbalneav
[14:54] <stgraber> hi sbalneav
[15:50] <sbalneav> Hmm, sabayon-2.25 now depends on python-xdg
[15:50] <sbalneav> I think I add that to the control.in file.
[15:54] <sbalneav> Hm.  Well, got a package.
[16:00] <pygi> highvoltage: stgraber : poke
[16:01] <highvoltage> pygi: poke
[16:01] <pygi> highvoltage: the session is tomorrow at 11
[16:01] <pygi> we need to come up with list of questions
[16:02] <pygi> and stuff that we need to discuss
[16:02] <highvoltage> pygi: ok
[16:03] <highvoltage> pygi: dent it too, we need to let people know
[16:03] <stgraber> k
[16:03] <highvoltage> and you too
[16:03] <highvoltage> pygi: do we have a room no?
[16:04] <pygi> highvoltage: yes
[16:04] <pygi> find it on the schedule for tomorrow
[16:04] <highvoltage> pygi: oh, cool
[16:04] <highvoltage> swimming with the ducks
[16:04] <highvoltage> hehe
[16:04] <sbalneav> OK, I've dput'd a sabayon-2.25 package to my ppd
[16:04] <sbalneav> err, ppa
[16:04] <sbalneav> we'll see if it gets there
[16:05] <pygi> sbalneav: hi :)
[16:05] <pygi> highvoltage: its great! :p
[16:05] <pygi> stop messing with my names :p
[16:06] <sbalneav> Once I do the dput, it should build from there with no more intervention on my part, correct?
[16:08] <pygi> stgraber: tell him that I am dangerous :p
[16:16] <sbalneav> Rejected:
[16:16] <sbalneav> Signer has no upload rights at all to this distribution.
[16:16] <sbalneav> Not permitted to upload to the RELEASE pocket in a series in the 'CURRENT' state.
[16:17] <sbalneav> Here's my dput.cf
[16:17] <sbalneav> [sbalneav]
[16:17] <sbalneav> incoming = ~sbalneav/ppa/ubuntu/
[16:17] <sbalneav> allow_unsigned_uploads = 0
[16:19] <sbalneav> Anyone have any ideas?
[16:21] <stgraber> that's for your ppa right ?
[16:21] <stgraber> [stgraber]
[16:21] <stgraber> fqdn = ppa.launchpad.net
[16:21] <stgraber> method = ftp
[16:21] <stgraber> incoming = ~stgraber/ppa/ubuntu/
[16:21] <stgraber> login = anonymous
[16:21] <stgraber> allow_unsigned_uploads = 0
[16:22] <sbalneav> OK, I can try that, any idea why I got the REJECTED email?
[16:29] <stgraber> sbalneav: any better with this one ? if it doesn't then something is wrong with your gpg key
[16:29] <stgraber> sbalneav: either the source wasn't signed correctly or launchpad doesn't know the right gpg key
[16:33] <stgraber> highvoltage: can you copy/paste what you did from the internal gobby to gobby.ubuntu.com ?
[16:33] <highvoltage> stgraber: I couldn't access either gobby session most of the day
[16:34] <stgraber> gobby.u.c just came back, don't know for the internal one
[16:35] <stgraber> highvoltage: what was that "yes" on identi.ca ?
[16:42] <highvoltage> stgraber: it was actually meant for another window (d'oh!)
[16:53] <stgraber> ogra: ping
[16:53] <ogra> pong
[16:53] <stgraber> do you know your schedule from tomorrow, especially between 11am and 1pm ?
[16:54] <ogra> http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-karmic/track/mobile/
[16:55] <ogra> i need to be in the blue android session, not sure about either of the other two
[16:55] <stgraber> ok, 11:00 => 12:00 is edubuntu, then ltsp from 12:00 to 13:00
[16:56] <stgraber> so if you aren't needed for the green ones it'll be fine
[16:59] <sbalneav> No, still didn't build.
[17:00] <sbalneav> Rejected:
[17:00] <sbalneav> Signer has no upload rights at all to this distribution.
[17:05] <stgraber> what did you use as command for the upload ?
[17:08] <sbalneav> dput sabayon-blashblah.changes
[17:09] <sbalneav> Am I missing some option?
[17:09] <sbalneav> Looks to me like it's trying to upload to main, as opposed to my ppa
[17:12] <alkisg> sbalneav: cat ~/.dput.cf  ?
[17:13] <alkisg> fqdn = ppa.launchpad.net        incoming = ~sbalneav/ppa/ubuntu/
[17:17] <sbalneav> Hm
[17:17] <sbalneav> We'll see if this is any better
[17:17] <sbalneav> dput sbalneav blahblah.changes
[17:20] <sbalneav> Yup, that's got it.
[17:21] <sbalneav> pending jaunty builds
[17:21] <sbalneav> I've found a bug already.
[17:38] <highvoltage> stgraber: are you around?
[17:39] <stgraber> highvoltage: sure, in the lobby
[17:39] <stgraber> highvoltage: you ?
[17:40] <sbalneav> If anyone's interested, keep an eye on my ppa.  I'm working over the next 2-3 weeks on getting a functioning sabayon.
[17:40] <sbalneav> After that, I'll start digging into the system-tool-backends ldap problem.
[17:40] <stgraber> sbalneav: kewl
[17:40] <stgraber> sbalneav: be careful with that, we want to get rid of it IIRC :)
[17:40] <highvoltage> stgraber: I'm upstairs, will probably come down in just a bit
[17:41] <highvoltage> stgraber: hang on, lobby at hotel or at the conference center?
[17:41] <stgraber> highvoltage: ok, I'll probably be there with that no food before 8pm thingy :)
[17:41] <stgraber> highvoltage: hotel
[17:41] <highvoltage> k
[17:42] <stgraber> sbalneav: https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/security-karmic-replace-gst
[17:49] <sbalneav> stgraber: ok, I've subscribed.
[18:11] <LaserJock> hola Edubunteros!
[18:14] <LaserJock> highvoltage: ping
[18:19] <da_bboxking> what do i do when it say, "only one management application tool can run at the same time?
[18:21] <stgraber> hi LaserJock
[18:21] <stgraber> sorry, was doing some networking with highvoltage
[18:21] <highvoltage> ey LaserJock
[18:21] <highvoltage> I finally have network \o/
[18:21] <highvoltage> (via cable via stgraber's machine)
[18:22] <highvoltage> LaserJock: we've been looking at the strategy doc and have some suggestions, just want to run them by you
[18:23] <LaserJock> great
[18:23] <highvoltage> In Areas of Focus... there's LTSP/Administration as focus 2 and Sugar as focus 3
[18:24] <highvoltage> shouldn't the LTSP/Sugar kind of things be combined as a focus for having good upstream rlationships and bringing the best of upstream to edubuntu, and then we just list ltsp, sugar, kde-edu etc as examples of projects that we want to work closely with?
[18:25] <LaserJock> right, at the time there was seemingly a big Ubuntu Sugar team ready to really get some big stuff going
[18:25] <sbalneav> New sabayon-2.25-0ubuntu3 package uploaded to my ppa
[18:25] <LaserJock> so I was placing more emphasis on Sugar
[18:26] <sbalneav> fixed crasher bug, xnest now launches with desktop
[18:26] <highvoltage> LaserJock: ok, so you're ok with that being changed?
[18:26] <LaserJock> but I'm more of a mind now to not put specific apps as an Area of Focus
[18:26] <LaserJock> highvoltage: so what do you want to change the areas to be?
[18:26] <LaserJock> sbalneav: awesome!
[18:27] <LaserJock> sbalneav: you don't happen to be using bzr for that are you?
[18:27] <highvoltage> LaserJock: not so much the areas as how it is phrased. so the objective should be more about relationships with the important education related upstream projects
[18:27] <highvoltage> LaserJock: and then the specifics are listed and explained in that focus area
[18:27] <LaserJock> well, I would like to group them better
[18:28] <LaserJock> between learning, teaching, and administration I think
[18:28] <LaserJock> Sugar I think would be in learning
[18:28] <LaserJock> LTSP would be in administration
[18:28] <LaserJock> know what I mean?
[18:28] <highvoltage> LaserJock: otherwise we have to list gcompris, kde-edu, ltsp, sugar, etc, etc as each their own focus area, which wouldwaste space on the document and it won't be inclusive of other upstream projects we might want to add in the future
[18:28] <da_bboxking> ﻿what do i do when it say, "only one management application tool can run at the same time?
[18:29] <highvoltage> LaserJock: I understand that rationale.
[18:29] <LaserJock> highvoltage: right, I think listing some core packages in the relevant Area of Focus would work
[18:29] <LaserJock> but we don't need to list everything
[18:30] <LaserJock> Sugar and LTSP are more than just your normal app, it's a decent sized commitment so I think they're worth mentioning
[18:30] <highvoltage> LaserJock: at least it's a wiki, I'll just make some changes, if it's anything too intrusive I'll let you know, and if there's anything you disagree with we can discuss it?
[18:30] <LaserJock> sure
[18:30] <LaserJock> hack away at it
[18:31] <sbalneav> LaserJock: What part should I bzr, the whole source tree? Or just the debian directory?  So far, I've simply used a stock upstream tarball, and have been using cdbs-edit-patches to patch what needed to be fixed.
[18:32] <LaserJock> sbalneav: I'm thinking that maybe ~edubuntu-dev could be used for this
[18:33] <stgraber> sbalneav: then, only the debian directory is fine, thanks for using cdbs  :)
[18:33] <sbalneav> ok
[18:33] <LaserJock> sbalneav: one could take the bzr branch from http://package-import.ubuntu.com/s/sabayon/
[18:34] <highvoltage> LaserJock, stgraber, sbalneav: perhaps we should gobby it?
[18:34] <sbalneav> ok, I'll see what I need to do.
[18:34] <LaserJock> my guess is that we're going to have more than one patch :-)
[18:34] <highvoltage> (if you guys have time and have the energy now?)
[18:34] <sbalneav> lemme go get a cup of coffee.
[18:34] <stgraber> highvoltage: yeah, sounds good
[18:34] <sbalneav> Are you guys in a session right now?
[18:34] <LaserJock> sbalneav: I can get you a branch to work from I think
[18:35] <highvoltage> sbalneav: nope, sessions are done for today
[18:35] <highvoltage> sbalneav: but we want to be as ready as possible for the session tomorrow
[18:36] <LaserJock> stgraber: you're the owner of ~edubuntu-dev
[18:36] <highvoltage> gobby.ubuntu.com
[18:36] <LaserJock> stgraber: can you add myself, highvoltage, and sbalneav to ~edubuntu-dev?
[18:36] <highvoltage> document name is EdubuntuStrategyDocument
[18:38] <LaserJock> ok, I think I'm there
[18:40] <stgraber> LaserJock: sure
[18:43] <highvoltage> Edubuntu Council...
[18:43] <highvoltage> we said that we're going to establish a kind of Technical Board
[18:43] <LaserJock> sbalneav: are you mixing gobby and here
[18:43] <LaserJock> ?
[18:43] <highvoltage> but also that the council and the technical board will be one thing
[18:44] <highvoltage> LaserJock: I'm just talking to stgraber about how Kubuntu does things in terms of the Kubuntu Council
[18:44] <LaserJock> ah
[18:45] <sbalneav> I was talking in gobby, yeah
[18:45] <highvoltage> LaserJock: their council does community, technical and release management all in one right?
[18:45] <LaserJock> basically I think so
[18:45] <LaserJock> in other words the Kubuntu Council is the go-to body for high-level decisions in Kubuntu
[18:45] <highvoltage> LaserJock: is it necessary to list status in the strategy document? I think the strategy document should be something that's more static
[18:46] <LaserJock> yeah, that was sbalneav ;-p
[18:46] <highvoltage> ok
[18:46] <LaserJock> we should extract out status for karmic though sometime
[18:47] <highvoltage> sbalneav: I'm just going to remove the status part of Sabayon. we can put it in a regular report that can go into UWN :)
[18:48] <sbalneav> That's fine, I'm just throwning things in there
[18:51] <highvoltage> LaserJock: could you create the edubuntu council team so long or would you want to run that by CC first?
[18:52] <LaserJock> creating the team should be a no-op
[18:52] <LaserJock> as we'd just be shuffling the organization, not changing the composition
[18:53] <sbalneav> LaserJock: Looks like that bzr tree you have includes the upstream code as well.  I'd like to stick to just managing the debian/ tree, and have all patches occurr with cdbs.
[18:53] <highvoltage> LaserJock: ok cool. I think it would be nice if we could do that ASAP as well
[18:53] <LaserJock> sbalneav: it'll work ok I think, this is supposedly how we're going to be doing everything soonish
[19:00] <stgraber> LaserJock: we're discussing the need of edubuntu-dev as it's basically exactly the same members of edubuntu-members
[19:00] <stgraber> shouldn't we go with only edubuntu-members as kubuntu does and when we go bigger, then split developers from others ?
[19:02] <highvoltage> LaserJock: "the EC team are people elected by edubuntu members..."
[19:02] <highvoltage> LaserJock: is that entirely true? I mean, our current EC was just elected by people on the mailing list, before we even had edubuntu members
[19:03] <highvoltage> LaserJock: ok stgraber just made a good point. that's how it can be from now on.
[19:04] <LaserJock> sorry, wife decided it was lunch time :/
[19:04] <highvoltage> ok
[19:05] <LaserJock> I think edubuntu-dev should be different than -members
[19:05] <highvoltage> LaserJock: while I'm busy flood-asking you stuff... can I add testing iso images as a function of the edubutnu bugsquad as well?
[19:05] <LaserJock> -members is anybody who's made a significant, sustained contribution, it will likely have nothing to do with packaging
[19:05] <LaserJock> therefore I wanted a team of technically OK contributors
[19:06] <LaserJock> and a place to work on packaging with bzr and PPAs
[19:06] <highvoltage> LaserJock: ok, that makes sense. I agree but stgraber is making funny faces and looking sceptical
[19:06] <LaserJock> heh
[19:06] <LaserJock> stgraber: what's your issue with it?
[19:07] <stgraber> well, mainly that currently it's not quite needed :)
[19:07] <stgraber> in your mind would one have to go trough the council again to join -dev ?
[19:07] <LaserJock> sbalneav: https://code.launchpad.net/~edubuntu-dev/sabayon/upstream
[19:07] <LaserJock> no
[19:07] <stgraber> or would any technical member be part of -dev ?
[19:08] <highvoltage> LaserJock: but someone has to be a member first before they can be a -dev?
[19:08] <LaserJock> it'd be Edubuntu Members who want to work on packaging and have shown that they're unlikely to ruin everything
[19:08] <LaserJock> I would equate it to the Universe Contributors for MOTU
[19:08] <highvoltage> ok cool
[19:08] <LaserJock> I wanted a team for people who are not yet MOTU/Core Dev to collaborate and actually have packages made
[19:08] <stgraber> ok, so it's a council member making the decision on whether or not to join the -dev team, it's not a defacto right ?
[19:09] <highvoltage> LaserJock: I'm re-typing that on line 77, feel free to check and edit
[19:09] <LaserJock> perhaps, or perhaps just another member of ~edubuntu-dev
[19:09] <LaserJock> I think it could be very loose
[19:09] <LaserJock> I just wanted a place to dump bzr/PPAs and collect packagers
[19:09] <stgraber> ok
[19:09] <LaserJock> that 1) wasn't *everybody* and 2) didn't require MOTU/Core Dev
[19:10] <LaserJock> -members could work, but I personally like the separation
[19:10] <stgraber> would we do it the kubuntu way ? with bzr branches for basically everything we maintain
[19:10] <stgraber> then core devs doing the review and uploading ?
[19:10] <LaserJock> ideally anything that we actually have divergence on, yes
[19:10] <LaserJock> so we can handle contributions easier
[19:10] <LaserJock> than poking me on IRC/mailing list
[19:11] <LaserJock> bzr merge requests
[19:11] <LaserJock> and having PPAs allows us to test packages
[19:11] <stgraber> well, IIRC for Kubuntu it's not even bzr merge, the distro packaging is done in the equivalent of -dev and it's just the uploader's work to review before uploading someone else's changes
[19:12] <stgraber> that's even easier
[19:12] <highvoltage> LaserJock: do we still want a website team? Or should we rather make that a function of the edubuntu-doc team?
[19:12] <stgraber> a developer without upload rights can still update the packaging, can put it in the PPA if he wants and when he thinks it's good enough he asks someone to review it and upload
[19:13] <highvoltage> ok I'm taking it out
[19:13] <LaserJock> stgraber: right, I'm just saying that *anybody* could do a merge request, even if they're not in the team
[19:14] <LaserJock> I liked the idea of having the website team
[19:14] <highvoltage> LaserJock: hmm, ok. I really like the idea of having less teams
[19:14] <LaserJock> I do too
[19:14] <LaserJock> but with openID and LP
[19:14] <LaserJock> we could make the editors linked to the LP team
[19:14] <stgraber> from what we discussed with highvoltage, basically updating the doc on the website would be part of the docteam work
[19:15] <highvoltage> LaserJock: I can't think of a real reason to have a website team, although I suppose it's useful for filing web bugs against
[19:15] <LaserJock> that was the only big thing I was thinking of
[19:15] <stgraber> and posting release notes and managing the website would be part of the council work
[19:15] <stgraber> so not real need for a separate team containing both teams
[19:15] <LaserJock> ok, ok, that sounds good
[19:15] <LaserJock> yeah, go for it
[19:15] <LaserJock> we can always change things later as needed
[19:15] <LaserJock> fewer teams is better
[19:15] <LaserJock> I'm very much in favor of tying docs and website
[19:16] <highvoltage> yep, I guess the goal is to just have a strat doc that we're all in agreeal with so that we can agree that we're one community with the same goals and just move forward
[19:18] <LaserJock> yes, that would be ideal :-0
[19:18] <LaserJock> :-) rather
[19:19] <LaserJock> regarding bugsquad and .iso testing
[19:19] <LaserJock> I think you could add that as one of the things they do
[19:19] <LaserJock> though they shouldn't be the only ones doing it
[19:20] <LaserJock> if we had a *lot* of packages, etc. I'd say split it up into bugs and testing
[19:20] <LaserJock> but in reality it's more like Edubuntu QA, which would include both of those
[19:20] <highvoltage> LaserJock: we need to get lns, pygi, sbalneav members again too
[19:21] <LaserJock> hmm, 2 should be quorum ;-)
[19:21] <LaserJock> this bootstraping issue is a bit annoying
[19:22] <LaserJock> I don't exactly want to toss out all the rules as it calls into question the legitimacy of the decisions
[19:22] <LaserJock> but realistically, who'd ever object to lns and nubae becoming members and reinstating expired people?
[19:23]  * LaserJock is away for a few
[19:23] <alkisg> LaserJock: don't bother with legitimacy, we prefer you as a dictator :)
[19:23] <highvoltage> LaserJock: well this is a unique situation, and we only have it because canonical employees completely left withouth any communication or proper handover
[19:24] <highvoltage> LaserJock: I think it's a unique situation and I think that taking steps to fill the gaps is necessary. I think you're right with 2 as a quorum, since that's technically 100% of the council
[19:27] <LaserJock> well, then shall we? :-)
[19:28] <highvoltage> yes.
[19:28] <stgraber> ;)
[19:28]  * highvoltage schedules an EC meeting at 18:30 UTC on 25 May 2009
[19:28] <highvoltage> LaserJock: if you can make it, of course
[19:28] <highvoltage> you might be busy that day.
[19:29] <LaserJock> today is 25 May isn't it?
[19:29] <highvoltage> yes?
[19:29] <LaserJock> when is 18:30? 1min?
[19:29] <highvoltage> yes?
[19:29] <highvoltage> your ntp broken?
[19:30] <LaserJock> it's the UTC that gets me
[19:30] <highvoltage> heh, ok
[19:30] <bencrisford1> Hey LaserJock :)
[19:30] <bencrisford1> highvoltage: you're at the UDS right?
[19:30] <LaserJock> [19:30] <highvoltage> *bong*
[19:30] <highvoltage> Agenda:
[19:31] <highvoltage> Reinstate Mario Danic, Jordan Erickson as members
[19:31] <highvoltage> Approve Stefane Graber as EC member
[19:31] <highvoltage> (or approve Jordan Erickson, even)
[19:31] <highvoltage> LaserJock: is there anyone I left out?
[19:31] <highvoltage> https://launchpad.net/~edubuntu-members/+members
[19:32] <LaserJock> hang on  a sec
[19:32] <highvoltage> and Scott Balneaves, of course
[19:32] <highvoltage> ok
[19:33] <LaserJock> Lns was not a member
[19:33] <LaserJock> he and nubae were up for membership
[19:33] <highvoltage> should we have another EC meeting later this week and approve them
[19:34] <highvoltage> iirc they have to state their case and list their contributions if they haven't been a member already?
[19:34] <bencrisford1> highvoltage: excuse my interruption, but do you really need to go through that?
[19:35] <bencrisford1> they clearly deserve it
[19:35] <LaserJock> it would be preferable for them to be there
[19:35] <LaserJock> bencrisford1: membership is not a trivial thing
[19:35] <highvoltage> bencrisford1: it's the process. membership isn't taken very lightly
[19:35] <LaserJock> it is important that their qualifications be addressed
[19:35] <highvoltage> bencrisford1: agreeing to the Ubuntu Code of Conduct is also an absolute requirement
[19:36] <LaserJock> Ubuntu Membership is defined by a significant and sustained contributions to Ubuntu
[19:36] <highvoltage> bencrisford1: remember that ubuntu members actually represent ubuntu directly, you can print ubuntu business cards and you even get an @ubuntu.com email address
[19:36] <highvoltage> bencrisford1: so we can't hand them out like sweeties :)
[19:36] <highvoltage> LaserJock: stgraber and I are hungry, so we need to get back to business
[19:36] <LaserJock> lol
[19:36] <bencrisford1> highvoltage: I know, but still, they could easily do it now
[19:37] <bencrisford1> would take minutes...
[19:37] <stgraber> as they aren't already Ubuntu members, giving them edubuntu membership will make them ubuntu members as well
[19:37] <highvoltage> bencrisford1: if they were here
[19:37] <bencrisford1> oh
[19:37] <stgraber> so we need to follow the regular procedure for ubuntu membership
[19:37] <highvoltage> stgraber: yep
[19:37] <highvoltage> stgraber: that was the agreement with the Community Council
[19:37] <stgraber> that would be less the case if they were already ubuntu members, in this case the only difference is basically and @edubuntu.org email
[19:38] <LaserJock> ok, so vote #1: reinstate pygi
[19:38] <highvoltage> stgraber: I don't think we have it on 'paper' anywhere, but that's how it is
[19:38] <highvoltage> +1
[19:38] <LaserJock> is he really going to be around for a while?
[19:38] <highvoltage> he has been the last few weeks
[19:38] <highvoltage> and I've spoken to him and he has committed to be here for edubuntu
[19:38] <LaserJock> he seemed interested at the meeting
[19:38] <LaserJock> ok
[19:38] <LaserJock> +1
[19:39] <highvoltage> ok, so that's pygi
[19:39] <LaserJock> vote #2: reinstate sbalneav
[19:39] <LaserJock> sbalneav: you up for it?
[19:39] <highvoltage> sbalneav: you've been involved and you haven't left us ever really
[19:39] <highvoltage> sbalneav: you've just expired in launchpad, can we reactivate you?
[19:40] <LaserJock> well, he committed to sabayon
[19:40] <LaserJock> and he can deactivate again if he wants ;-)
[19:41] <highvoltage> LaserJock: weird. usually people ask the council to become members :)
[19:41] <highvoltage> LaserJock: ok +1!
[19:41] <LaserJock> heh, extraordinary circumstances
[19:41] <LaserJock> +1 here
[19:41] <highvoltage> I'm sure he would have agreed as well
[19:42] <highvoltage> so that is the members we can do for now
[19:42] <highvoltage> shall we move over to the EC part that we can do right now?
[19:42] <LaserJock> unless cbx33 or jsgontanco want back in ;-)
[19:42] <highvoltage> I think we'll need some more discussion with both of them
[19:43] <highvoltage> they have both displayed interest and I think they are perhaps a bit sceptical
[19:43] <highvoltage> I think we should bring them in at the next one and have at least a small amount of formal discussion?
[19:44] <highvoltage> LaserJock: tell your wife we need your undivided attention for just 10 minutes :p
[19:44] <LaserJock> heh
[19:44] <LaserJock> agreed
[19:45] <LaserJock> https://launchpad.net/~edubuntu-council has been created
[19:45] <highvoltage> I'd like to propose stgraber as a member of the edubuntu council
[19:46] <LaserJock> stgraber: do you wish to join the council?
[19:46] <stgraber> sure
[19:46] <highvoltage> stgraber: congratulations and welcome
[19:46] <LaserJock> vote #3: stgrabe for Edubuntu Council
[19:47] <highvoltage> oops
[19:47] <LaserJock> dude, we gotta vote first ;-)
[19:47] <highvoltage> well, +1 :)
[19:47] <LaserJock> +1 based on position as Ubuntu Developer, maintenance of core Edubuntu programs, and generally being a stand-up guy
[19:47] <highvoltage> stgraber: \o/  congratulations and welcome \o/
[19:47] <bencrisford1> i dont think i can vote cos im just a noob, but i think he should be
[19:48] <stgraber> thanks
[19:48] <stgraber> (that was easy :))
[19:48] <highvoltage> I'd like to propose that we implement a quorum of 2/3 until we have a full compliment of EC members
[19:48] <LaserJock> +1
[19:48] <stgraber> +1
[19:48] <highvoltage> +1
[19:49] <highvoltage> any other items for this meeting?
[19:49] <LaserJock> I think we should arrange for votes for 2 more members ASAP
[19:49] <highvoltage> LaserJock: agreed
[19:49] <LaserJock> perhaps *after* the next round of memberships though
[19:49] <stgraber> yeah
[19:49] <highvoltage> LaserJock: sounds good
[19:49] <highvoltage> welcome to Edubuntu 2.0
[19:50] <highvoltage> Edubuntu Project 2.0, at least
[19:50] <LaserJock> highvoltage: can you send out sort of a meeting minutes?
[19:50] <highvoltage> LaserJock: can I hit the bong?
[19:50] <LaserJock> it would be good to have on record (edubuntu-devel anyway) what we did
[19:50] <LaserJock> yes
[19:50] <stgraber> highvoltage: feel free
[19:50] <highvoltage> meeting adjourned.
[19:50] <highvoltage> *BONG*
[19:50] <stgraber> fooood !!!
[19:50] <bencrisford1> LaserJock: I'm always around, so if you tell me when meetings are, ill do the minutes for you
[19:51] <highvoltage> minutes will be posted to edubuntu-devel after stgraber and I get some food :)
[19:51] <LaserJock> bencrisford1: ok, awesome. thanks for the offer
[19:51] <sbalneav> sorry, was afk  for a bit
[19:51] <stgraber> sbalneav: welcome back as an edubuntu member
[19:51] <LaserJock> sbalneav: you're back in ~edubuntu-members, so tough luck if you didn't want it
[19:52] <sbalneav> Was I out?
[19:52] <LaserJock> you were
[19:52] <LaserJock> you expired
[19:52] <sbalneav> ah, ok
[19:53] <LaserJock> highvoltage: I'm not sure about having "Upstream Relations" as an area of focus
[19:53] <LaserJock> that would seem to me to be more just "best practice", it doesn't particularly set us apart
[19:54] <LaserJock> however, maybe the "upstream software testbed" focus would be a good idea
[20:04] <LaserJock> sbalneav: https://code.launchpad.net/~edubuntu-dev/sabayon/ubuntu is the current Ubuntu packaging with 2.25.0 merged in
[20:05] <LaserJock> sbalneav: ^^ is what we'd likely be uploading to karmic
[20:11] <pygi> highvoltage: stgraber: LaserJock : hi
[20:11] <LaserJock> hi
[20:12] <pygi> LaserJock: since when am I an edubuntu member? :)
[20:12] <pygi> and are you coming to the session tomorrow?
[20:13] <LaserJock> I'm not at UDS and it will be 2am for me
[20:13] <pygi> ohhh
[20:13] <pygi> sorry :)
[20:14] <sbalneav> LaserJock: Did you use the stuff I did to merge in to that package?
[20:15] <LaserJock> sbalneav: no, I kept it pure to start with
[20:15] <sbalneav> Do I have write access to that branch?
[20:15] <LaserJock> sbalneav: yep
[20:16] <sbalneav> okie
[20:17] <LaserJock> you should be able to drop your patch in there
[20:17] <LaserJock> I haven't tried to build it yet though
[20:18] <sbalneav> There was also a change to the control.in file, as there's now a build-dep on python-xdg
[20:19] <LaserJock> ah
[20:21] <LaserJock> sbalneav: that's at build time?
[20:22] <sbalneav> Well, I changed the control.in file in debian, and did a debuild -S -sa
[20:22] <sbalneav> Is that build time? :)
[20:22] <sbalneav> I'm still learning here
[20:23] <LaserJock> I meant, did you put python-xdg in Build-Depends or Depends?
[20:24] <sbalneav> Both
[20:25] <LaserJock> ok
[20:25] <LaserJock> not sure if it's needed in Depends but we can sort that later
[20:29] <bencrisford2> LaserJock: I had a bit of an idea
[20:29] <LaserJock> bencrisford2: yeah?
[20:30] <bencrisford2> How about an edubuntu openweek
[20:30] <bencrisford2> I dont mean like the ubuntu one
[20:30] <LaserJock> sbalneav: your package crashes for me before getting to the desktop
[20:30] <bencrisford2> this one could be aimed at developers
[20:30] <bencrisford2> we could have a schedule like Monday - bug fixing/triaging, tuesday - artwork, etc.
[20:31] <LaserJock> well, I like the idea
[20:31] <LaserJock> I don't know that we could do a whole week though
[20:31] <bencrisford2> maybe not a whole week yeah
[20:31] <bencrisford2> a few days though
[20:31] <LaserJock> perhaps Edubuntu OpenDay?
[20:32] <LaserJock> OpenDays
[20:32] <bencrisford2> sounds good
[20:32] <bencrisford2> :)
[20:32] <LaserJock> there would have to be people to run it
[20:32] <bencrisford2> yeah, but if we spread out the sessions amongst us...
[20:32] <bencrisford2> some people might be doing more than one or two though
[20:33] <bencrisford2> in fact we could do a whole week but only have one or two sessions a day
[20:33] <LaserJock> sbalneav: what do you have in /root/sabayon-debug-log.conf ?
[20:33] <bencrisford2> that would make it easier for people to attend the sessions
[20:33] <pygi> LaserJock: should I mention that idea tomorrow at the session?
[20:33] <LaserJock> pygi: go for it
[20:33] <bencrisford2> pygi: Which idea?
[20:34] <pygi> bencrisford2: the one with openday(s)
[20:34] <bencrisford2> oh :) what session would that be pygi?  at the UDS i assume?
[20:34] <LaserJock> if people will commit to running them there's no reason not to
[20:34] <pygi> bencrisford2: yes
[20:35] <LaserJock> OpenWeek has been pretty successful for getting awareness out and getting  people interested in helping out
[20:35] <bencrisford2> i love the idea of my idea being mentioned at a UDS
[20:35] <bencrisford2> makes me feel really special :P
[20:35] <pygi> bencrisford2: :)
[20:35] <LaserJock> bencrisford2: well, that's what Ubuntu's all about :-)
[20:35] <bencrisford2> yeah :)
[20:36] <bencrisford2> im up for membership next month
[20:36] <bencrisford2> :S
[20:36] <bencrisford2> i dont think ill get it :/
[20:36] <bencrisford2> but you never know
[20:36] <sbalneav> LaserJock: I had a crasher in profilesdialog.py, which I fixed
[20:36] <pygi> just be patient :)
[20:36] <LaserJock> bencrisford2: wait for 2 months
[20:36] <pygi> and work those two months :p
[20:36] <LaserJock> bencrisford2: I'm guessing by then you'll have accumulated a good list of contributions
[20:37] <bencrisford2> well i have a half decent list at the moment
[20:37] <LaserJock> bencrisford2: but make sure to write them down on your wiki page
[20:37] <bencrisford2> and im contributing more every day
[20:37] <bencrisford2> i need more testimonials, but most of my work is triaging so not many testimonials come with that unfortunately
[20:37] <bencrisford2> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BenCrisford - theres my page if you're interested
[20:38] <sbalneav> LaserJock: Where's yours crash?
[20:39] <LaserJock> sbalneav: don't know, I need to get a decent log
[20:39] <LaserJock> sbalneav: but it's before the desktop loads
[20:39] <LaserJock> seems like about the same time as that paneldelegate.py crasher
[20:40] <sbalneav> Hm, the machine I'm doing this on is using UNR, which has a different panel config.
[20:41] <sbalneav> I'm wondering if maybe the problem's in Ubuntu's default panel xml diddly bit.
[20:42] <LaserJock> sbalneav: yeah, I think there are definitely assumptions about the panels that sabayon is making
[20:44] <sbalneav> wondering if there's an empty name field in /etc/gconf/schemas/panel-default-setup.entries
[20:45] <sbalneav> Because iirc, your patch fixed a crash if the name of the panel was empty
[20:46] <LaserJock> yeah
[20:48] <sbalneav> ok
[20:48] <sbalneav> try this.
[20:48] <sbalneav> use gconf editor, and try the following:
[20:49] <sbalneav> apps->panels>toplevel
[20:49] <sbalneav> you should have top_panel_screen0, and bottom_panel_screen0
[20:49] <sbalneav> Try adding a string in the empty "name" field
[20:49] <sbalneav> in the schema file, the name field is empty
[20:50] <sbalneav> I'm wondering if that fixes the problem.
[20:52] <LaserJock> oh, wait
[20:52] <LaserJock> I did that in my account
[20:52] <LaserJock> I need to get that into Sabayons
[20:54]  * nubae waves
[20:55] <nubae> it seems we've finally got all the kinks out of sugar packages and all activities should work when packaged
[20:55] <LaserJock> great
[20:55] <nubae> I believe there were the same issues with some of the ubuntu packages that there were with openSUSE... missing items in MANIFEST, etc
[20:56] <nubae> anyway, it means we should discuss whether or not to use oBS to build the src debs and debs
[20:56] <nubae> I mean it can start off as an external repo I suppose
[20:56] <nubae> and if its verified the process is ok, u can include the packages in edubuntu
[20:57] <nubae> but I need to know if that is going to be looked at or not.... for the motivation to make the ubuntu packages
[20:58] <nubae> one interesting thing is since the new sugar will use metacity, individual apps will be able to be launched from gnome
[20:58] <nubae> that might make it more interesting for collaboration, etc
[21:02] <LaserJock> yeah
[21:02] <LaserJock> nubae: what's the situation with abiword, do you know?
[21:03] <pygi> nubae: the problem is ...
[21:03] <sbalneav> LaserJock: Probably the BEST way to fix it would be to fill in the value in /etc/gconf/schemas/panel-default-setup.entries
[21:03] <sbalneav> /etc/gconf/schemas/panel-default-setup.entries
[21:03] <sbalneav> [C[D
[21:03] <sbalneav> /etc/gconf/schemas/panel-default-setup.entries
[21:03] <sbalneav> argh
[21:03] <pygi> we first need to agree on the things that are not technical in nature
[21:03] <pygi> and one of the steps to come there is tomorrow session
[21:04] <pygi> and I don't think we'll outsource building to anything other then the canonical infrastructure
[21:05] <nubae> pygi, oBS uses canonical's infra to build
[21:05] <nubae> I see no reason to reinvent the wheel though, but oBS is gpl, and can happily exist within an ubuntufied framework
[21:06] <pygi> I am sure it is gpl (and I even worked on it, I have commit access to oBS repo), but why change what isn't broken?
[21:06] <nubae> LaserJock: we have had no issues with abiword (from the openSUSE side), I dont know what the debian situation is
[21:06] <nubae> simplify, not reinvent
[21:06] <nubae> thats why
[21:06] <LaserJock> well, we don't need to get into that bit
[21:07] <nubae> if its there for that taking, why would someone else go and start packaging everything again?
[21:07] <LaserJock> if we can get source packages we can work it all out
[21:07] <nubae> who?
[21:07] <nubae> from what I can see thats not going to happen any time soon
[21:07] <nubae> so if u want sugar packages, someone is gonna have to package them
[21:07] <LaserJock> I'm saying that it's not a big deal whether work is done in oBS or LP
[21:07] <LaserJock> all we need is a source package to get it into Ubuntu/Edubuntu
[21:08] <nubae> and as I have done the whole process for openSUSE I dont really feel the need to redo the whole thing in the debian way just to please the politics of the issue
[21:08] <LaserJock> it's not political
[21:08] <LaserJock> it's "get it into the Ubuntu archives"
[21:08] <nubae> ok cool, then there is no problem... oBS creates source and binariers
[21:08] <nubae> cool, then we are on the same track
[21:09] <nubae> I'm sure u can understand that after doing stuff this way, and seeing it work beautfully, I am not about to go and manually do it all again
[21:09] <LaserJock> nubae: is there anything left of the Ubuntu Sugar team do  you know?
[21:09] <LaserJock> well no, I don't expect you to manually do it all again
[21:09] <nubae> well lfaraone... but as I understand it, he is waiting to see what will happen with debian
[21:10] <LaserJock> but bottom line is we need to be able to get stuff in the Ubuntu archives
[21:10] <LaserJock> exactly *how* that happens I don't much care at this point
[21:10] <nubae> and due to us having oBS and threatening to use it (maybe wrong use of words) the debian maintainer has started packaging the latest version of sugar
[21:10] <nubae> so... it may be that that is enough and we can use debian packages for karmic
[21:11] <nubae> but in the mean time, for people who want to run sugar, it might be nice to have the packages available
[21:11] <nubae> run 0.84 that is
[21:11] <nubae> in August 0.86 is launched
[21:11] <nubae> which includes the move to metacity
[21:11] <nubae> so that will be the important one
[21:12] <nubae> right now debian/ubuntu is stuck at 0.82 though, which is unusably bad
[21:14] <LaserJock> right
[21:15] <LaserJock> so we need to get that fixes as soon as we can
[21:15] <nubae> thats the reason for my suggestion
[21:16] <nubae> then there are the --extra packages
[21:16] <nubae> did u ever get a change to look at my email listing suggestions?
[21:16] <LaserJock> I did briefly
[21:16] <LaserJock> it's a good list
[21:16] <nubae> we can also have a look at what opensuse-edu carries, as I am sure there must be feedback about which apps were usable/used
[21:17] <nubae> I tested all the ones I put in the mail
[21:17] <nubae> so I know they at least work
[21:17] <LaserJock> sbalneav: I need a paste of what you have for /root/sabayon-debug-log.conf
[21:17] <nubae> though greater testing would be great, but maybe after having a metapackage
[21:17] <nubae> its an activity some of the new people could get involved with
[21:18] <nubae> so if we either list it on the mailing list, or put it on the wiki, we can get some more feedback
[21:21] <LaserJock> yeah
[21:21] <LaserJock> it would be great to have a rating system
[21:28] <nubae> yup, well could u put up the steps and then we can get people working
[21:28] <nubae> there's been far too much planning, we need action now :D
[21:29] <nubae> people have spoken, lets see if they do stuff now.. this can at least be a test
[21:29] <nubae> if u put up the list and the steps, I'll format it nicely like its formated on the edubuntu side with icons and the like, and then we can get people to test/feedback, vote, and get something ready for karmic
[21:29] <nubae> what do u think?
[21:30] <nubae> LaserJock: ?
[21:31] <LaserJock> yeah
[21:31] <LaserJock> sounds like an idea
[21:33] <nubae> we need some way to evaluate if people are gonna act or not
[21:34] <LaserJock> perhaps a probationary period
[21:35] <LaserJock> like "go ahead and try to get X going, but if after 1 month nothing shows up we're killing it" :-)
[21:37] <nubae> yuuup
[21:45] <LaserJock> that's where a weekly or bi-weekly status meeting should happen
[21:46] <LaserJock> so projects are evaluated frequently and people don't get bogged down in a dead end
[21:46] <LaserJock> or they can get needed help
[21:57] <Vantrax> mornin all
[22:00] <LaserJock> hello
[22:00] <nubae> spekaing of which Vantrax wanted to help out some way
[22:00] <bencrisford1> Vantrax is on the learning board
[22:01] <bencrisford1> I had a chat with him about the collabortation oppurtunities mentioned in the meeting
[22:01] <bencrisford1> :)
[22:01] <Vantrax> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Vantrax might be easier
[22:02] <Vantrax> LaserJock I hear your putting edubuntu together more or less solo at the moment
[22:02] <LaserJock> something like that
[22:03] <Vantrax> I know a ubuntu dev with some new found time on his hands that ill have a chat to today, see if he can pitch in
[22:04] <LaserJock> who's that?
[22:04] <Vantrax> paultag
[22:07] <LaserJock> ok, don't know him, but by his LP page he looks to be a pretty busy guy :-)
[22:07] <Vantrax> yeah:P
[22:07] <Vantrax> good value
[22:09] <Vantrax> also from chatting with bencrisford1 yesterday im going to be adding in some training topics into the learning project taht should help edubuntu out, things like ltsp, network homes, reimaging etc that should clear up a few points of confusion
[22:10] <Vantrax> ive seen some evidence that they have been problems for staff trying to use edubuntu
[22:13] <LaserJock> where would those training topics land?
[22:14] <Vantrax> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning/SystemAdminTopics
[22:15] <LaserJock> ok, nifty
[22:15] <Vantrax> at this stage there is room for movement, we have Canonical approval, but were waiting for the CC meeting next week to actually start the implementation process
[22:16] <Vantrax> so if you have topics you would like covered let me know
[22:16] <LaserJock> this is the moodle instance that will be on learning.ubuntu.com?
[22:16] <Vantrax> yes
[22:16] <LaserJock> ultimately if Edubuntu takes of again I imagine we'll want to use it fairly extensively
[22:16] <Vantrax> btw we chose learning because education seemed to be locked up by edubuntu:P
[22:17] <LaserJock> yes, it's a difficult rope to walk
[22:17] <Vantrax> and canonical has training:P
[22:17] <LaserJock> education *using* Ubuntu vs education *about* Ubuntu
[22:17] <Vantrax> yeah
[22:17] <Ahmuck_> stgraber: sayabon works?
[22:17] <Vantrax> so we went with learning, made it clearly different, if not quite gramatically sound
[22:18] <Vantrax> btw LaserJock your noted down as the contact point for edubuntu
[22:18] <LaserJock> yeah, I guess so
[22:19] <LaserJock> I'm really trying to get away
[22:19] <Vantrax> from edubuntu, or from people talking to you:P
[22:20] <stgraber> I'm back
[22:20] <Vantrax> feel free to nominate someone else if you want LaserJock, your just the key person at this point in time
[22:21] <Vantrax> Ill be floating around in here anyway should you need something, wish I had the dev skills to help you more.
[22:21] <LaserJock> Vantrax: I'm currently finishing off my PhD dissertation and trying to get ready to move cross-country for a new job
[22:21] <Vantrax> PhD in what?
[22:21] <LaserJock> Vantrax: so hopefully somebody will take over, but for the interm it's fine
[22:22] <LaserJock> Chemistry
[22:22] <Vantrax> <- works at a university
[22:22] <LaserJock> I'm a .... laser jock ;-)
[22:22]  * highvoltage !
[22:23] <highvoltage> hi pygi
[22:29] <highvoltage> LaserJock: shall we do another EC this week for the people awaiting membership application?
[22:30] <LaserJock> yeah
[22:30] <LaserJock> announce on -devel that anybody wanting to apply for membership needs to show up
[22:30] <highvoltage> any particular date/time that suits you?
[22:30] <highvoltage> ok
[22:30] <LaserJock> hmm
[22:30] <LaserJock> when's a good time for you?
[22:31] <LaserJock> your the one at UDS
[22:31] <bencrisford1> LaserJock: If you want me to, I can help out with the edubuntu learning project thingy in anyway i can, like I say I have tons of time on my hands these days
[22:31] <highvoltage> 20:00 UTC Wednesday?
[22:31] <highvoltage> bencrisford1: awesome
[22:31] <LaserJock> bencrisford1: yeah, go for it!
[22:31] <bencrisford1> go for it?
[22:32] <bencrisford1> i dunno what im doing yet :P
[22:32] <LaserJock> bencrisford1: well then that's task #1 :-)
[22:32] <LaserJock> highvoltage: should be an OK time
[22:33] <bencrisford1> LaserJock: Want me to act as a kind of liason between the learning thingy and the edubuntu team?
[22:33] <stgraber> LaserJock: did you make edubuntu-council the owner of edubuntu-members ?
[22:33] <LaserJock> stgraber: no, the CC must do that
[22:33] <stgraber> LaserJock: oh, the CC owns edubuntu-members ?
[22:34] <LaserJock> we need to make CC owners of edubuntu-council I think, and then make EC an admin of edubuntu-members
[22:34] <LaserJock> and owner of all the rest of the teams
[22:34] <LaserJock> yes, CC own edubuntu-members, that at least has a team as owner
[22:38] <bencrisford1> LaserJock: So what you want me to do about this whole edubuntu learning thingy?
[22:39] <LaserJock> bencrisford1: right, well. First of all you can liaison between the two groups
[22:39] <LaserJock> if there's something relevant going on in the Learning project let us know
[22:39] <bencrisford1> Ok sounds good
[22:40] <LaserJock> and you can make sure that the Edubuntu-related training topics get set up
[22:40] <LaserJock> and lastly you can get people involved with writing the content
[22:40] <bencrisford1> sounds like a plan :)
[22:42] <bencrisford1> LaserJock: If you want i'll act as 'Contact Person', of course thats your role if you want it :), but the offers there :)
[22:43] <LaserJock> well, let's see how it goes first, how about that?
[22:43] <LaserJock> we'll get you on your way and once you got things rolling I'll be more than glad to hand the 'Contact Person' duties off to you
[22:44] <bencrisford1> ok sure
[22:46] <bencrisford1> Why don't we organise a meeting for the edubuntu team and the learning team so the people here can voice their ideas and stuff, and the experienced 'learning teamers' can give us advice and suggestions?
[22:46] <LaserJock> perhaps
[22:46] <LaserJock> we might want to give the learning team some time to get everything set up
[22:47] <bencrisford1> yeah, and weve got alot of meetings going on at the moment
[22:47] <bencrisford1> im certainly having trouble keeping track
[22:47] <LaserJock> :-)
[23:00] <bencrisford2> How long do membership meetings take?
[23:00] <bencrisford2> for ubuntu
[23:00] <bencrisford2> not edubuntu, sorry for off-topic
[23:10] <stgraber> depends
[23:10] <stgraber> we usually aren't available for more than an hour, so we take as many members as possible in an hour
[23:19] <Vantrax|Work> boo:P
[23:22] <Vantrax|Work> anyone looked at http://www.likewise.com/products/likewise_open/? Might be something to look at documenting to help with authentication issues
[23:24] <highvoltage> ok so pygi is rewriting the strategy dock on gobby as PeopleEdubuntu, just in case any one cares