[00:14] Hi stgraber [00:15] Im Antonio Sanchez, from Isotrol (Canonical Silver Partner) [01:38] got a question. if we have a support contract with canonical, and submit a problem to them, they will put somebody on it to fix it? [01:44] Ahmuck_: I don't know... read the terms of your contract or contact Canonical about it. [01:44] AFAIK there are no Canonical reps in here. === GGD_ is now known as GGD [05:24] I've seen a bit of fuss kicked up about edubuntu lately, how healthy is it really? [07:24] where is pygi? [07:39] *yawn* [07:39] point me to bug reporting [07:39] somebody ? [08:21] hi highvoltage :p [08:21] hi pygi and highvoltage [08:21] hi pygi [08:21] and stgraber [08:21] and hi stgraber :p [08:22] stgraber: highvoltage : where are you folks located? You must be somewhere far away :D [08:22] pygi: lol [08:22] ;) [08:23] (hopefully no one will notice that we're standing next to each other talking over IRC) [08:23] highvoltage: o com'on xD [08:23] why did you tell them that? :D [08:24] :D [08:24] * pygi shoots highvoltage [08:27] channel get's electrified because of pygi's highvoltage gun [08:28] Ahmuck: :P [08:31] * pygi shoots stgraber with his updates [08:31] too much shooting going on, we should stop :) [08:38] heh === GGD is now known as GGD_sleeping [08:42] stgraber: com'on! :p [08:45] stgraber: ping test ;P [08:46] ack [08:46] pygi: pong test [08:48] stgraber: hey, and how much did it take for the ping to reach you? xD [08:57] stgraber: highvoltage : w00t, edubuntu on the screen :p [09:13] highvoltage: stgraber : I am disappointed ;P [09:14] yeah :) [09:39] muting the sound, and sound control on the edubuntu ltsp server does not work [09:39] it's broke [09:39] where do i file a bug [09:42] is anyone from the edubuntu community at the UDS? :P [09:42] apart from me, stgraber , highvoltage and laserjock === Vantrax is now known as Vantrax|Home [10:30] Vantrax|Home: Hey :) [10:30] I saw your message to the mailing list :) [10:30] as well as i [10:31] Hi [10:31] Just catching up on the back logs now [10:31] seems like people are getting tied up with the devil in the details a bit [10:33] I have a few questions from reading the threads from this month [10:34] Vantrax|Home: saw u're mail... goo d that u are interested in helping out [10:34] where do you see yourself getting involved? [10:34] not sure at this stage [10:35] Im already on the board of another major ubuntu community project that is sucking up alot of time [10:36] the comment made about Edubuntu vs packages is accurate Edubuntu makes it appear to be a distribution [10:37] Vantrax|Home: Just out of interest; what project is it you are on the board for? [10:37] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning [10:38] Ah, yes I have signed up for that project [10:38] at the moment im just working out how i can get involved# [10:38] well, thats the image we'd like to change... some of us have commited ourselves to turn edubuntu back into a distro [10:38] as is the case for xubunut, studio, kubuntu, etc [10:38] atm were in a bit of a holding pattern. We have a Canonical go ahead from sabfl but were waiting on CC to approve [10:39] nubae, that turns into a numbers game then, how many contributors do you have? Can you sustain the level of development required? [10:39] ill follow this project whereever it goes [10:40] I think we have alot of people willing to contribute, but perhaps not as much as others [10:40] the idea that its just metapackages at this stage makes it seem almost useless... we really need a well themed educational distro that contains both officially supported edu apps, the current packs, and universe edu apps, which we are in the process of testing, and meta packaging, then we include a nice edu theme, combine with some backend stuff like moodle, mahara, class, schooltool, and finally incorporate ltsp... [10:40] then we have a distro we can all actually use [10:40] Vantrax|Home: right it does [10:41] Vantrax|Home: This action item was decided at the meeting on friday concerning the learning project: [10:41] "Action item: bencrisford2 to look into collaboration opportunities with the Ubuntu Learning project" [10:41] but there are many folks that have lately commited themselves, so we'll see what happens [10:41] lol:P I made that easy for you [10:41] I'Ve been around long enough [10:41] I guess I can talk to you about that Vantrax|Home :) [10:41] That you can, what can we do for you? [10:41] to see both action and inaction, one has to have hope that this time round, people will pick up the ball === Vantrax|Home is now known as Vantrax [10:42] Vantrax, ill PM you, there is two converstations going at once here :P [10:42] nubae its my experience you need to have several short measurable goals to get the ball rolling. Ones everyone can get behind and see done quickly. [10:43] before that you need to look at what is critical, then prioritise, for identity i think your right about theme, but you need themes for different targets [10:43] yeah, for me its about turning it back into a distro... thats where my involvment lies... that and sugar, which I currently package for opensuse, but using the same build tools, we can package for ubuntu too [10:44] anyway, the distro stuff, I wont be able to look into for at least a month, but we have time, we have commited to doing that along side LTS releases [10:44] after all, most teachers/sysadmins at schools, dont want to install every 6 months [10:45] as a sysadmin, 2 years [10:45] minimum [10:45] currently the addon is released every 6 months.... also, we will move to a dvd/usb live distro method, so it can be shown off in schools [10:45] you want a least one year to develop on a new version while the old is still supported [10:45] right... LTS is 2-4 years support, which is plenty [10:46] right... which is why the next release for karmic will continue to be the addon, perhaps with an extras addon containing universe apps... [10:46] then for the LTS, which is about a year from now, we will release the live distro in dvd/usb format [10:46] the live distro will go a long way I think, cprofitt works with the US edu system somewhere, he would be good to talk to [10:46] so, there u have the background, now IÄ'm curious where u want to be involved [10:47] id do a little bit of surveying on http://community.k12opensource.com http://www.classroom20.com about what educators are after [10:48] how many teachers are in this team? [10:48] The problem isn't the goals, it's the lack of contributors.. [10:48] nubae not quite sure yet, im still working out where I can make a difference with the limitations on time that I have [10:55] from talkig with ben I think i have and idea how this could work [10:56] alkisg what was the last goal the team achived? is there a plan somewhere? [10:57] how many problems come from configuration issues in schools. Teachers not understanding how to do something? [10:57] Vantrax: what team? [10:57] installing ltsp, or updating with local repositories, or pushing out patches and updates [10:58] alkisg the team that works on edubuntu [10:58] The problem isn't the goals, it's that noone's left to form a team [10:58] ahh [10:58] In the previous releases, LaserJock almost single-handedly produced the add-on [10:59] ill see what support I can drum up then, where is the biggest hole, developers? [10:59] Now a few people want edubuntu to become a distro again, and that's what they'll work on, if given a chance [10:59] thats tough [10:59] Yes, we lack devs [10:59] unfortunately so does Ubuntu [10:59] yay I have power again \o/ [11:00] btw, I found the guadalinex guys [11:00] told them that we're having a session later [11:03] highvoltage: is session confirmed ? [11:05] I don't see it on the schedule [11:06] stgraber: jono didn't confirm [11:06] stgraber: asking pygi on jabber now, hopefully he'll show up here as well [11:06] ah cool [11:06] (as in pygi is here) [11:06] yeah jono is talkking a lot, we;ll just corner him after this session [11:07] ok, if it's confirmed I can mention it during my plenary talk [11:07] stgraber: but its not yet [11:08] highvoltage: if you find him, please just tell him to check his email [11:08] but I'll have to give the slides in half an hour or so [11:11] stgraber: :-/ [11:12] stgraber: let me check the mail [11:15] no answer from jono, stgraber [11:15] dohh [11:37] got a question. any reason one can't use qimo at the base distro? [11:52] pygi: You at the UDS then? [11:53] bencrisford1: yes [11:53] how is it? [11:53] stgraber: did you find the guadelinux folks [11:53] bencrisford1: its ok, we're discussing some bazaar stuff :) [11:53] pygi: yup, going to have lunch with them [11:53] stgraber: oh! [11:53] we are here :D [11:53] asanchez: ! [11:53] why didn't you wait for us outside after the plenary? [11:53] ok [11:53] lol [11:53] asanchez: where ? :) (I'm currently in the lobby) [11:53] ok what? :D [11:54] we can lunch together [11:54] hi there [11:54] AngusRF: Hey [11:55] my problem: I'Ve decided to create a new client image on my edubuntu 9.04 setup (because client-image-update falied). SO i moved the old i386 dir and did 'ltsp-build-client --arch i386' [11:55] now, the building process ended, saying "E: couldn't find edubuntu-artwork-usplash" [11:56] And the clients do not boot anymore (logical, the client system is incomplete) [11:56] stgraber: if you want to go with us (with asanchez, and the rest of people) and bazaar people... just follow us :p [11:56] But a missing artwork package seems to me like a quite small problem that shouldn't affect the complete installation. [11:56] I think we'll go to lunch soon too [11:56] anyway, I don't understand WHY the packagen wasn't found [11:56] pygi: where's lunch ? [11:57] do you know the problem? [11:57] stgraber: in this building [11:57] pygi: ok, where ? :) [11:57] stgraber: in a restaurant :p [11:58] AngusRF: Report it as a bug [11:58] stgraber: sorry, I don't have any idea :) [11:58] im a lil busy right now [11:58] but ill check it out later [11:58] bencrisford1: are you at UDS? [11:58] nope :( [11:58] where is UDS this year anyway? [11:58] okay [11:58] bencrisford1: Barcelona [11:58] cool [11:58] AngusRF: sorry, its just that Edubuntu is in a state of mess right now :-/ [11:59] too bad :( [12:00] stgraber: going to lunch now, see you there :) [12:00] yeah, leaving for some food too. [12:00] stgraber: just find me somewhere [12:04] stgraber, pygi: What time is it in barcelona? [12:04] or have you already gone...? [12:07] its' probably 12:04 there [12:13] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/224899 [12:13] Ubuntu bug 224899 in ubuntu "ltsp-build-client fails to complete setup (dup-of: 221894)" [Undecided,New] [12:13] that's for xubuntu [12:13] Ubuntu bug 221894 in ltsp "installing ltsp-server-standalone fails cant find xubuntu-artwork-usplash" [Low,Fix released] [12:13] but it seem to be the same [12:14] hm nice bot [12:24] bencrisford1: 13:24 [12:25] oh, :) 1 hour ahead of me stgraber [12:37] bencrisford1: you in the uk ? [12:47] yeah [12:47] stgraber* [13:16] AngusRF: Tell me about this bug then :) === Guest37253 is now known as ogra [14:41] okay, one more question: I've got edubuntu jaunty amd64 installed. I'm trying to do ltsp-build-client --arch i386. But it keeps failing, saying it cannot find "edubuntu-artwork-usplash". By now I have found out that this is logical, because the package has been removed from jaunty. I found a comment to a bugreport stating that it has been replace by edubuntu-artwork. Is there a way for me to make the client system not depend on that no-l [14:41] onger-existing package? [14:48] Morning all [14:49] Morning all [14:53] morning sbalneav [14:54] hi sbalneav [15:50] Hmm, sabayon-2.25 now depends on python-xdg [15:50] I think I add that to the control.in file. [15:54] Hm. Well, got a package. [16:00] highvoltage: stgraber : poke [16:01] pygi: poke [16:01] highvoltage: the session is tomorrow at 11 [16:01] we need to come up with list of questions [16:02] and stuff that we need to discuss [16:02] pygi: ok [16:03] pygi: dent it too, we need to let people know [16:03] k [16:03] and you too [16:03] pygi: do we have a room no? [16:04] highvoltage: yes [16:04] find it on the schedule for tomorrow [16:04] pygi: oh, cool [16:04] swimming with the ducks [16:04] hehe [16:04] OK, I've dput'd a sabayon-2.25 package to my ppd [16:04] err, ppa [16:04] we'll see if it gets there [16:05] sbalneav: hi :) [16:05] highvoltage: its great! :p [16:05] stop messing with my names :p [16:06] Once I do the dput, it should build from there with no more intervention on my part, correct? [16:08] stgraber: tell him that I am dangerous :p [16:16] Rejected: [16:16] Signer has no upload rights at all to this distribution. [16:16] Not permitted to upload to the RELEASE pocket in a series in the 'CURRENT' state. [16:17] Here's my dput.cf [16:17] [sbalneav] [16:17] incoming = ~sbalneav/ppa/ubuntu/ [16:17] allow_unsigned_uploads = 0 [16:19] Anyone have any ideas? [16:21] that's for your ppa right ? [16:21] [stgraber] [16:21] fqdn = ppa.launchpad.net [16:21] method = ftp [16:21] incoming = ~stgraber/ppa/ubuntu/ [16:21] login = anonymous [16:21] allow_unsigned_uploads = 0 [16:22] OK, I can try that, any idea why I got the REJECTED email? [16:29] sbalneav: any better with this one ? if it doesn't then something is wrong with your gpg key [16:29] sbalneav: either the source wasn't signed correctly or launchpad doesn't know the right gpg key [16:33] highvoltage: can you copy/paste what you did from the internal gobby to gobby.ubuntu.com ? [16:33] stgraber: I couldn't access either gobby session most of the day [16:34] gobby.u.c just came back, don't know for the internal one [16:35] highvoltage: what was that "yes" on identi.ca ? [16:42] stgraber: it was actually meant for another window (d'oh!) [16:53] ogra: ping [16:53] pong [16:53] do you know your schedule from tomorrow, especially between 11am and 1pm ? [16:54] http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-karmic/track/mobile/ [16:55] i need to be in the blue android session, not sure about either of the other two [16:55] ok, 11:00 => 12:00 is edubuntu, then ltsp from 12:00 to 13:00 [16:56] so if you aren't needed for the green ones it'll be fine [16:59] No, still didn't build. [17:00] Rejected: [17:00] Signer has no upload rights at all to this distribution. [17:05] what did you use as command for the upload ? [17:08] dput sabayon-blashblah.changes [17:09] Am I missing some option? [17:09] Looks to me like it's trying to upload to main, as opposed to my ppa [17:12] sbalneav: cat ~/.dput.cf ? [17:13] fqdn = ppa.launchpad.net incoming = ~sbalneav/ppa/ubuntu/ [17:17] Hm [17:17] We'll see if this is any better [17:17] dput sbalneav blahblah.changes [17:20] Yup, that's got it. [17:21] pending jaunty builds [17:21] I've found a bug already. [17:38] stgraber: are you around? [17:39] highvoltage: sure, in the lobby [17:39] highvoltage: you ? [17:40] If anyone's interested, keep an eye on my ppa. I'm working over the next 2-3 weeks on getting a functioning sabayon. [17:40] After that, I'll start digging into the system-tool-backends ldap problem. [17:40] sbalneav: kewl [17:40] sbalneav: be careful with that, we want to get rid of it IIRC :) [17:40] stgraber: I'm upstairs, will probably come down in just a bit [17:41] stgraber: hang on, lobby at hotel or at the conference center? [17:41] highvoltage: ok, I'll probably be there with that no food before 8pm thingy :) [17:41] highvoltage: hotel [17:41] k [17:42] sbalneav: https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/security-karmic-replace-gst [17:49] stgraber: ok, I've subscribed. === GGD_sleeping is now known as GGD [18:11] hola Edubunteros! [18:14] highvoltage: ping [18:19] what do i do when it say, "only one management application tool can run at the same time? [18:21] hi LaserJock [18:21] sorry, was doing some networking with highvoltage [18:21] ey LaserJock [18:21] I finally have network \o/ [18:21] (via cable via stgraber's machine) [18:22] LaserJock: we've been looking at the strategy doc and have some suggestions, just want to run them by you [18:23] great [18:23] In Areas of Focus... there's LTSP/Administration as focus 2 and Sugar as focus 3 [18:24] shouldn't the LTSP/Sugar kind of things be combined as a focus for having good upstream rlationships and bringing the best of upstream to edubuntu, and then we just list ltsp, sugar, kde-edu etc as examples of projects that we want to work closely with? [18:25] right, at the time there was seemingly a big Ubuntu Sugar team ready to really get some big stuff going [18:25] New sabayon-2.25-0ubuntu3 package uploaded to my ppa [18:25] so I was placing more emphasis on Sugar [18:26] fixed crasher bug, xnest now launches with desktop [18:26] LaserJock: ok, so you're ok with that being changed? [18:26] but I'm more of a mind now to not put specific apps as an Area of Focus [18:26] highvoltage: so what do you want to change the areas to be? [18:26] sbalneav: awesome! [18:27] sbalneav: you don't happen to be using bzr for that are you? [18:27] LaserJock: not so much the areas as how it is phrased. so the objective should be more about relationships with the important education related upstream projects [18:27] LaserJock: and then the specifics are listed and explained in that focus area [18:27] well, I would like to group them better [18:28] between learning, teaching, and administration I think [18:28] Sugar I think would be in learning [18:28] LTSP would be in administration [18:28] know what I mean? [18:28] LaserJock: otherwise we have to list gcompris, kde-edu, ltsp, sugar, etc, etc as each their own focus area, which wouldwaste space on the document and it won't be inclusive of other upstream projects we might want to add in the future [18:28] what do i do when it say, "only one management application tool can run at the same time? [18:29] LaserJock: I understand that rationale. [18:29] highvoltage: right, I think listing some core packages in the relevant Area of Focus would work [18:29] but we don't need to list everything [18:30] Sugar and LTSP are more than just your normal app, it's a decent sized commitment so I think they're worth mentioning [18:30] LaserJock: at least it's a wiki, I'll just make some changes, if it's anything too intrusive I'll let you know, and if there's anything you disagree with we can discuss it? [18:30] sure [18:30] hack away at it [18:31] LaserJock: What part should I bzr, the whole source tree? Or just the debian directory? So far, I've simply used a stock upstream tarball, and have been using cdbs-edit-patches to patch what needed to be fixed. [18:32] sbalneav: I'm thinking that maybe ~edubuntu-dev could be used for this [18:33] sbalneav: then, only the debian directory is fine, thanks for using cdbs :) [18:33] ok [18:33] sbalneav: one could take the bzr branch from http://package-import.ubuntu.com/s/sabayon/ [18:34] LaserJock, stgraber, sbalneav: perhaps we should gobby it? [18:34] ok, I'll see what I need to do. [18:34] my guess is that we're going to have more than one patch :-) [18:34] (if you guys have time and have the energy now?) [18:34] lemme go get a cup of coffee. [18:34] highvoltage: yeah, sounds good [18:34] Are you guys in a session right now? [18:34] sbalneav: I can get you a branch to work from I think [18:35] sbalneav: nope, sessions are done for today [18:35] sbalneav: but we want to be as ready as possible for the session tomorrow [18:36] stgraber: you're the owner of ~edubuntu-dev [18:36] gobby.ubuntu.com [18:36] stgraber: can you add myself, highvoltage, and sbalneav to ~edubuntu-dev? [18:36] document name is EdubuntuStrategyDocument [18:38] ok, I think I'm there [18:40] LaserJock: sure [18:43] Edubuntu Council... [18:43] we said that we're going to establish a kind of Technical Board [18:43] sbalneav: are you mixing gobby and here [18:43] ? [18:43] but also that the council and the technical board will be one thing [18:44] LaserJock: I'm just talking to stgraber about how Kubuntu does things in terms of the Kubuntu Council [18:44] ah [18:45] I was talking in gobby, yeah [18:45] LaserJock: their council does community, technical and release management all in one right? [18:45] basically I think so [18:45] in other words the Kubuntu Council is the go-to body for high-level decisions in Kubuntu [18:45] LaserJock: is it necessary to list status in the strategy document? I think the strategy document should be something that's more static [18:46] yeah, that was sbalneav ;-p [18:46] ok [18:46] we should extract out status for karmic though sometime [18:47] sbalneav: I'm just going to remove the status part of Sabayon. we can put it in a regular report that can go into UWN :) [18:48] That's fine, I'm just throwning things in there [18:51] LaserJock: could you create the edubuntu council team so long or would you want to run that by CC first? [18:52] creating the team should be a no-op [18:52] as we'd just be shuffling the organization, not changing the composition [18:53] LaserJock: Looks like that bzr tree you have includes the upstream code as well. I'd like to stick to just managing the debian/ tree, and have all patches occurr with cdbs. [18:53] LaserJock: ok cool. I think it would be nice if we could do that ASAP as well [18:53] sbalneav: it'll work ok I think, this is supposedly how we're going to be doing everything soonish [19:00] LaserJock: we're discussing the need of edubuntu-dev as it's basically exactly the same members of edubuntu-members [19:00] shouldn't we go with only edubuntu-members as kubuntu does and when we go bigger, then split developers from others ? [19:02] LaserJock: "the EC team are people elected by edubuntu members..." [19:02] LaserJock: is that entirely true? I mean, our current EC was just elected by people on the mailing list, before we even had edubuntu members [19:03] LaserJock: ok stgraber just made a good point. that's how it can be from now on. [19:04] sorry, wife decided it was lunch time :/ [19:04] ok [19:05] I think edubuntu-dev should be different than -members [19:05] LaserJock: while I'm busy flood-asking you stuff... can I add testing iso images as a function of the edubutnu bugsquad as well? [19:05] -members is anybody who's made a significant, sustained contribution, it will likely have nothing to do with packaging [19:05] therefore I wanted a team of technically OK contributors [19:06] and a place to work on packaging with bzr and PPAs [19:06] LaserJock: ok, that makes sense. I agree but stgraber is making funny faces and looking sceptical [19:06] heh [19:06] stgraber: what's your issue with it? [19:07] well, mainly that currently it's not quite needed :) [19:07] in your mind would one have to go trough the council again to join -dev ? [19:07] sbalneav: https://code.launchpad.net/~edubuntu-dev/sabayon/upstream [19:07] no [19:07] or would any technical member be part of -dev ? [19:08] LaserJock: but someone has to be a member first before they can be a -dev? [19:08] it'd be Edubuntu Members who want to work on packaging and have shown that they're unlikely to ruin everything [19:08] I would equate it to the Universe Contributors for MOTU [19:08] ok cool [19:08] I wanted a team for people who are not yet MOTU/Core Dev to collaborate and actually have packages made [19:08] ok, so it's a council member making the decision on whether or not to join the -dev team, it's not a defacto right ? [19:09] LaserJock: I'm re-typing that on line 77, feel free to check and edit [19:09] perhaps, or perhaps just another member of ~edubuntu-dev [19:09] I think it could be very loose [19:09] I just wanted a place to dump bzr/PPAs and collect packagers [19:09] ok [19:09] that 1) wasn't *everybody* and 2) didn't require MOTU/Core Dev [19:10] -members could work, but I personally like the separation [19:10] would we do it the kubuntu way ? with bzr branches for basically everything we maintain [19:10] then core devs doing the review and uploading ? [19:10] ideally anything that we actually have divergence on, yes [19:10] so we can handle contributions easier [19:10] than poking me on IRC/mailing list [19:11] bzr merge requests [19:11] and having PPAs allows us to test packages [19:11] well, IIRC for Kubuntu it's not even bzr merge, the distro packaging is done in the equivalent of -dev and it's just the uploader's work to review before uploading someone else's changes [19:12] that's even easier [19:12] LaserJock: do we still want a website team? Or should we rather make that a function of the edubuntu-doc team? [19:12] a developer without upload rights can still update the packaging, can put it in the PPA if he wants and when he thinks it's good enough he asks someone to review it and upload [19:13] ok I'm taking it out [19:13]