[10:09] <Guest21892> hi, guys.  i upgraded to jaunty and enabled the proprietary ati driver and now my x is borked.  can you help me fix it, please?
[10:09] <crevette> Guest21892: trying booting the safe mode
[10:10] <crevette> there is a menu to fix the X configuration
[10:10] <Guest21892> crevette: there is no safe mode in jaunty.  it gives an option to fix x but that didint' do it.
[10:11] <Guest21892> crevette: i meant there's no safe mode for x.
[10:12] <crevette> ah
[10:12] <Guest21892> i'm in irssi now.  how do i switch between rooms?
[10:13] <crevette> humm, I didn't used irssi for years ...
[10:13] <jcristau> Guest21892: ^n ^p, /window, alt-N, ...
[10:14] <Guest21892> jcristau: that worked.  thank you.
[10:17] <Guest21892> does anyone have any ideas about disabling the ati driver?
[10:17] <tjaalton> dpkg --purge xorg-driver-fglrx
[10:18] <Guest21892> tjaalton: that will disable the proprietary driver enabled?
[10:18] <tjaalton> Guest21892: it will purge it from your system
[10:18] <Guest21892> tjaalton: thanks!!!  i'll try it.
[10:24] <Guest21892> tjaalton: ok.  i purged the ati driver.  now when i startx i get a message saying 'no screens found'.
[10:24] <tjaalton> put the logfile somewhere
[10:26] <tjaalton> but first make sure /etc/X11/xorg.conf is sane.. move it aside and try without one
[10:26] <Guest21892> tjaalton: ok:  pastebin.com/f267af216
[10:27] <tjaalton> how did you end up with the radeonhd driver?
[10:27] <Guest21892> tjaalton: i don't know what you mean by move it aside.
[10:27] <tjaalton> rename it, but it doesn't matter here
[10:27] <tjaalton> it's probably empty anyway
[10:27] <Guest21892> someone in #ubuntu told me to try it.
[10:28] <tjaalton> right
[10:28] <tjaalton> so dpkg --purge xserver-xorg-video-radeonhd then
[10:28] <tjaalton> I guess that'll make it work again, if you managed to install it in the first place..
[10:29] <tjaalton> jaunty on your system, that is
[10:30] <Guest21892> i upgraded to jaunty, everything was ok, then i enabled the ati driver, that's when things went bad. 
[10:30] <Guest21892> after i purge do i have to change my xorg.conf?
[10:30] <tjaalton> I don't think it supports that device
[10:30] <tjaalton> anymore
[10:31] <tjaalton> no
[10:31] <Guest21892> ok.  i'll try.  thanks.
[10:31] <tjaalton> neither does radeonhd for that matter
[10:31] <tjaalton> but -radeon does
[10:33] <Guest21892> should i install radeon?
[10:33] <tjaalton> it should be installed
[10:33] <tjaalton> by default
[10:33] <Guest21892> ok.  i'll try startx.  wish me luck.
[10:45] <binMonkey> tjaalton: ok.  i did what you said and now x comes up but my keyboard, mouse, and touchpad don't work.
[10:45] <tjaalton> binMonkey: same deal, logfile thanks
[10:45] <binMonkey> i am jazzed that at least i get a gui up.
[10:46] <binMonkey> ok.  thanks.
[10:49] <binMonkey> tjaalton: ok, here it is:  pastebin.com/f457e6482
[10:49] <binMonkey> tjaalton: if it matters, i tried dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg.
[10:50] <tjaalton> it does nothing of interest
[10:50] <tjaalton> try rebooting
[10:50] <tjaalton> or restart HAL and try again
[10:51] <tjaalton> and remove the fglrx module (rmmod fglrx)
[10:52] <binMonkey> how do i restart hal?
[10:53] <tjaalton> just reboot ;)
[10:53] <binMonkey> ok.  wish me luck.
[10:56] <binMonkey> WOOOOOTTT!!!!!!!!
[10:57] <binMonkey> tjaalton: it's working.
[10:57] <binMonkey> THANKS A MILLION FOR YOUR HELP!
[10:57] <tjaalton> np
[10:57] <tjaalton> don't break it again
[10:58] <binMonkey> i won't.  i hate to be a pest, but is there a driver for the 200m that i can use in jaunty?
[10:58] <tjaalton> you already have it
[10:58] <binMonkey> the radeon?
[10:58] <tjaalton> yes
[10:58] <tjaalton> what more do you want?
[10:59] <tjaalton> it's the only one supporting your device
[10:59] <binMonkey> ok.  i guess i should be thankful.
[10:59] <binMonkey> and i am.
[11:00] <tjaalton> I'm pretty sure that the restricted manager didn't suggest to install fglrx and you forced the install, am I right?
[11:00] <binMonkey> i'm not sure.  i used 'hardware drivers' in the main menu.
[11:00] <tjaalton> what does it say now?
[11:01] <binMonkey> hold on.
[11:01] <binMonkey> i see what you're saying.  i did ignore the warning.
[11:02] <binMonkey> but it did work really well in 8.10.
[11:02] <jcristau> but you're not using 8.10 anymore
[11:02] <tjaalton> I don't think it should even offer it
[11:02] <binMonkey> yeah.  i just didn't know that jaunty didn't support it.  had i known...
[11:03] <tjaalton> what does the warning say?
[11:03] <binMonkey> this is my old laptop that i'm using.  can i change a video card without having to worry about other hardware?
[11:04] <tjaalton> umm, laptop?
[11:04] <tjaalton> no
[11:04] <tjaalton> it's built-in
[11:05] <binMonkey> i closed it but it was something like 'these drivers have no public source code. they represent a risk, ubuntu cannot fix them, etc.'
[11:05] <tjaalton> that's a generic warning
[11:06] <binMonkey> dang.  i guess the only game i'll play for a while is nethack.
[11:06] <tjaalton> file a bug, by running 'ubuntu-bug restricted-manager'
[11:06] <tjaalton> it shouldn't offer the driver at all
[11:06] <tjaalton> the free driver should support 3D just fine
[11:07] <binMonkey> i think i agree.  especially if it's not supported.
[11:07] <binMonkey> i tried googleearth.  it's a little jerky but i can live with it.
[11:09] <binMonkey> youtube looks ok.
[11:10] <binMonkey> i got two good things out of this:  i learned about pastebinit and i learned a little bit about screen.
[11:12] <binMonkey> thanks again for the help.  have a good night.
[11:21]  * bryce_ waves
[11:21] <tjaalton> o/
[11:21] <bryce_> tjaalton: btw pitti said that 2.7.1 caused some freeze issues and a kernel panic on his laptop; he'll file a bug this evening and we'll chat with jbarnes_BCN when we see him
[11:22] <tjaalton> bryce_: ah, ok..
[11:22] <tjaalton> has worked fine here, but IIRC he has a 945
[11:23] <bryce_> tjaalton: looking at the changelogs, seems most likely to be something in the upstream code; the debian and ubuntu packaging sounds pretty sane, so guessing it's one of keith's patches, but really hard to say
[11:24] <tjaalton> bryce_: btw, in case you missed it.. debian dropped the pci-ids patch, and it pointed out a flaw in the xserver patch 143_default_to_vesa. I've disabled that one for now
[11:24] <bryce_> yep, saw that
[11:24] <tjaalton> ok, good
[11:24] <bryce_> tjaalton: there was one person who said his hardware got misdetected as -vesa with that change
[11:24] <bryce_> encouraged him to file a bug
[11:24] <tjaalton> also, there are a bunch of upstreamable patches in the xserver, have you planned to push those?
[11:25] <bryce_> probably should go upstream
[11:25] <bryce_> you mean the little segfault fixes?
[11:25] <bryce_> generally all of those that I did at least have a bug reported upstream
[11:26] <tjaalton> yeah, those ones. at least they weren't in 1.6.1.901, might be in master
[11:27] <bryce_> well, I'd found that upstream (i.e. whot) didn't like the approach I was using to solve them
[11:27] <bryce_> usptream would rather leave the crash in until the root cause was solved, and not just paper over the issue
[11:27] <tjaalton> oh, right..
[11:27] <bryce_> in the distro though, I was happy to paper over the issue since crashing is bad ;-)
[11:28] <bryce_> so... I made sure the bugs were registered upstream but didn't bother putting in the patch if I thought upstream would rather figure out the root cause than paper over.
[11:28] <tjaalton> yeah
[11:28] <bryce_> in one or two cases they did that, and the better patches are already upstream
[11:29] <bryce_> I chatted with pitti about this approach, and he agreed it was better for us to stop the crashing than to wait for the final solution
[11:29] <tjaalton> yep, makes sense
[11:30] <bryce_> I hope to have more time this release to do more of these.  We've got a ton of crash reports that could probably be solved this way
[11:36] <tjaalton> I haven't done much bug triaging for a while, but I've seen the bug count getting higher again..
[12:53] <bryce_> tjaalton: indeed, I'm worried it's going to get out of control again
[13:38] <CShadowRun> Is it possible to run 2 seperate X servers (not screens) on 2 heads, on 2 graphics cards?
[13:38] <jcristau> in theory, yes
[13:39] <CShadowRun> any more information i can gleam on that?
[13:39] <jcristau> google for multiseat
[13:39] <CShadowRun> i currently use seperate X screens and the bugs make me want to hurt people, i figure completely seperate X screens might be better
[13:39] <CShadowRun> ah, i don't exactly want multiseat though, but i admit its close
[13:40] <CShadowRun> i only want one mouse/keyboard
[13:40] <CShadowRun> i guess that's a good starting point though, thanks
[13:41] <jcristau> err. with only one mouse/kbd, how do you think this can work?
[13:41] <CShadowRun> hopefully by moving my mouse across (similar to multiple X screens)
[13:41] <CShadowRun> but obviously not moving windows across
[13:41] <jcristau> well. no.
[13:42] <CShadowRun> why not?
[13:42] <CShadowRun> there must be some way of switching what seat your on
[13:43] <tjaalton> the seats have their own mouse/keyboard..
[13:43] <CShadowRun> what happens if you try when you only have 1 keyboard/mouse?
[13:43] <tjaalton> then you have no mouse/keyboard on the other head
[13:43] <CShadowRun> and theres no way to switch which keyboard/mouse controls which head?
[13:45] <CShadowRun> even if there is no way to switch, i can still do it
[13:45] <CShadowRun> could use synergy (It's like a KVM switch, but software, and without the video switch)
[13:46] <CShadowRun> and just tell it that the networked computer is localhost \o/
[13:47] <CShadowRun> any other ideas/suggestions about it?
[13:47] <tjaalton> not that I know of
[13:48] <CShadowRun> hehe
[13:48] <CShadowRun> the reason is because i actually want to run the DE (in my case gnome) twice, completely seperately
[13:48] <CShadowRun> because the way gnome handles multi X screens is appauling and nobodys going to fix it, and i'm fed up with waiting :)
[13:49] <CShadowRun> most DE's suffer from the same issues, though
[13:49] <jcristau> you could fix it yourself...
[13:49] <CShadowRun> i had a look at the code, but not being a C programmer i couldn't even figure out what file i was supposed to look in
[13:50] <CShadowRun> and the bug report is 3 years old, and the developer is "too busy" so, this seems like the next best bet really
[14:32] <tjaalton> bryce_: you seem to have something left to push to xorg.git
[14:32] <tjaalton> the changes in 5ubuntu20
[14:44] <bryce_> tjaalton: nope
[14:45] <tjaalton> oh
[14:45] <tjaalton> something is wrong on my end
[14:45] <tjaalton> ah, there it is
[14:55] <bryce_> tjaalton: ideas on if removing x's hal dependency is feasible in karmic's timeframe?
[14:56] <tjaalton> bryce_: are you on the "improving boot speed" session?-)
[14:56] <tjaalton> just lost the stream
[14:56] <bryce_> yes
[14:57] <tjaalton> I haven't looked at how to use dbus directly, the xserver supports that
[14:57] <tjaalton> don't know if there are limitations
[14:57] <bryce_> scott was suggesting keith was looking at using udev in place of hal
[14:58] <tjaalton> oh, even lower
[14:58] <bryce_> he had also mentioned that kms would help move a chunk of startup time out
[14:58] <tjaalton> yes
[14:58] <bryce_> that'd run earlier on during kernel startup, in parallel with module startup
[14:59] <bryce_> guess we ought to resurrect the timing patch (and fix the hang bugs that were in it)
[15:00] <bryce_> end of session
[15:00] <tjaalton> yeah, got the stream back just in time for that
[15:01] <jcristau> using udev directly means losing solaris and bsds, so i'm not sure how that can fly upstream..
[15:01] <tjaalton> true
[15:03] <crevette> hal is going to be deprecated anyway ....
[15:04] <jcristau> crevette: well if there's no sensible replacement..
[15:04] <jcristau> http://lists.freedesktop.org/pipermail/xorg/2009-May/045590.html
[15:05] <crevette> jcristau: the deal is to use libudev apparently and others have to find their solutions
[15:05] <jcristau> crevette: and i'm saying that 'use libudev' is not a sensible replacement
[15:05] <crevette> adn DeviceKit is a daed-end too :)
[15:16] <bryce_> jcristau, #ifdef __LINUX ?
[15:18] <jcristau> bryce_: that's where an abstraction layer comes in
[23:49] <binMonkey> hi, guys.  after some drama last night that tjaalton helped me fix, i've become obsessed with my ati 200m card.  if i post my xorg.conf can you guys tell me what to do to speed it up a little?