/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2009/05/26/#edubuntu.txt

sbalneavEvening all00:52
sbalneavEvening LaserJock02:49
LaserJockhi02:49
sbalneavSo, interesting.02:49
sbalneavAt work, I have an older laptop I was using, that I built from a UNR image.02:49
sbalneavI build the sabayon package there, and it launches, and I can edit the desktop fine.02:50
sbalneavSo, I've just installed a jaunty box here02:50
sbalneavAll up-to-date02:50
sbalneavInstalled my package there, and like yours, it cr*ps out.02:50
LaserJock...ok02:51
sbalneavOnly difference is, one's using the unr desktop, the other, the regular gnome desktop02:51
sbalneavthe unr desktop only has 1 panel.02:51
LaserJockright02:51
sbalneavSo here's my theory.02:51
sbalneavA "stock" ubuntu panel config's missing something.02:52
LaserJockI tried adding in a name key in /etc/gconf/schemas/somethingoranother02:55
sbalneavNo change?02:55
sbalneavI'm going to have to look through that panel delegate code again.02:56
sbalneavSee what exactly it's looking for,02:56
LaserJockit didn't seem to make a difference02:58
sbalneavoff for a bit to watch the latest episode of "Canada's worst handyman", back in a bit.03:00
=== GGD is now known as GGD|sleeping
sbalneavBack04:00
sbalneavHmmm05:11
sbalneavthink I may be on to something...05:11
sbalneavGonna try to get another build up in a few minutes05:11
LaserJocksbalneav: oh?05:24
nubae1sbalneav: have u considered trying to build sabayon on oBS? it allows multiple architectures and distributions05:29
nubae1can be quite helpful for debugging too... one can use the oBS servers to let stuff build in the bacground, or build locally using the build command... I find it to be really helpful in terms of not having to worry about the majority of the automated stuff05:30
nubae1I suppose u get a bigger testing base too, since u can output to rpm, deb, for any distro and architecture05:31
=== nubae1 is now known as Nubae
sbalneavI have no idea what oBS05:33
sbalneavis05:33
LaserJockNubae: the changes are Ubuntu-specific though so I'm not sure he'd gain much05:33
Nubaeyou can then still always use local debian/ubuntu tools, I just think it makes it easier during testing faze05:34
Nubaeoh I see.... u dont think it will be valuable for other distros?05:34
LaserJockNubae: most likely not05:35
LaserJockit's possible though I suppose05:35
LaserJockbut the patches are likely to go to the mailing list so the Fedora/openSUSE experts can have a look05:35
LaserJocknot sure what Gentoo's status is05:36
NubaeoBS = opensuse BUILD SERVICE, though its distro agnostic and is a gpl tool, its kinda what BDOFL dreamed of when he created launchpad05:36
LaserJockwell, one aspect of Launchpad anyway05:36
Nubaewell, then even if just for that, if u can make the src deb available would be great05:37
sbalneavI have more than enough on my plate without having to learn yet more tools, thanks.  I don't know the ones I have to use now.05:37
Nubaeright, one aspect of launchpad, automation... I mean a lot of this stuff really shouldnt take as much time as it does05:37
sbalneavthe source deb's in my ppa05:37
Nubaedevs should be able to concentrate on their work and not let packaging be the most complicated part of the entire distibution process05:38
Nubaewww.launchpad.com/~sbalneav?05:38
LaserJockideally it's not05:38
LaserJockI don't think sbalneav is having really any problems with the packaging05:38
LaserJockit's the stupid bugs05:38
Nubaeahhh... time to pull out ye olde insecticide05:39
LaserJockbut they seem to be tricky bugs05:39
LaserJockthat depend on your gnome setup05:39
Nubaewell, I can take a look see if we cant get some testing done on other distros05:39
LaserJockI think Fedora and openSUSE are mostly OK05:40
NubaeopenSUSE doesnt really need it, but for testing bugs might appear of a particular variety05:40
LaserJockhave you tried sabayon on openSUSE?05:40
Nubaeactually no05:40
LaserJockthe current main dev works for Novell so I'd think it'd be in fairly good shape05:40
LaserJockand Red Hat created it so generally they do OK as well05:41
Nubaenot really any need... but I shall... the thing is openSUSE is very LDAP centric when it comes to groups/theming/samba05:41
LaserJockit's the rest of us that seem to have problems05:41
Nubaeaha05:41
LaserJockthey made assumptions about gnome that only seem to hold for Fedora/openSUSE05:41
Nubaelemme check it out then, first from opensuse packages then from sbalneav package05:41
Nubaeheh, sunds like typical openSUSE policy... forget about other distros and do what they consider works in the moment.... no standards, no policies05:42
Nubaethat kinda irritates me sometimes, but the thing is ends up just working...05:43
Nubaevery strange that way, u'd think since they break so many conventions that things wouldn't fit together, but they do somehow05:43
LaserJockyeah, I've noticed that05:45
sbalneavYou guys seeing a 0ubuntu4 build in my ppa?05:46
sbalneavAh, there it is.05:47
sbalneavLaserJock: When it finishes building, have a look at sabayon-2.25.0-0ubuntu405:48
sbalneavI cherry picked a fedora patch and modified it slightly05:49
LaserJocksbalneav: ok05:49
LaserJockwhich one?05:49
sbalneavhttps://cvs.fedoraproject.org/viewvc/rpms/sabayon/F-11/?sortby=rev05:50
sbalneavthe gconf-crashes patch05:50
Nubaewe have sabayon, sabayon-lang and sabayon admin packages in openSUSE05:52
LaserJocksbalneav: fascinating05:52
sbalneavyeah, what I really want to do is find out why that object doesn't seem to be defined.05:53
sbalneavthere05:53
sbalneav's a couple other patches that might be handy there05:53
sbalneavI'd like to find the *real* problem, and then get the patches pushed upstream, but that's for later.05:54
sbalneavright now, lets see if we can get it to work,05:54
sbalneavLaserJock: ok, ppa's finished doing it's thing05:54
sbalneavgive it a go.05:54
sbalneavbrings up the xnest window on mine.05:55
LaserJockstill pending publishing, I'll give it a minute or two05:55
Nubaeok so its starts in opensuse05:56
LaserJockand if you edit a profile?05:56
Nubaebut setting up new profile and hitting edit kills it05:56
NubaeMainThread 2009/05/26 06:55:12.8495 (admin-tool): Got fatal error: sabayon-session exited with a FATAL ERROR (exit code 1)05:57
NubaeMainThread 2009/05/26 06:55:12.8684 (USER): Finishing editing profile05:57
NubaeMainThread 2009/05/26 06:55:12.8689 (admin-tool): Terminating main loop05:57
NubaeMainThread 2009/05/26 06:55:12.8690 (admin-tool): Exiting abnormally; dumping log due to a fatal error05:57
NubaeI've got the full traceback if u are interested sbalneav05:58
LaserJockok, did it die immediately05:58
sbalneavThat on ubuntu?05:58
Nubaebut might be more interesting if I run your version of course05:58
Nubaeon openSUSE... yeah died right after I hit the edit profile button05:58
sbalneavyeah, well I think I just *fixed* that bug.  My version has the patch for that.05:58
Nubaeok, I'll try building yours and see if it works better, it could shed light on other items05:59
sbalneavLaserJock: Mine work for you?05:59
LaserJockno .debs published yet06:00
* LaserJock kicks LP06:00
sbalneavsabayon-apply's still cacking out, I'll get to that next06:00
sbalneavah, yeah, they built, but not published.06:01
sbalneavI got mine here locally from my pbuilder06:01
LaserJocksbalneav: \o/ !06:05
sbalneavAh06:05
sbalneavUpstream's patched this already06:05
sbalneavhttp://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=54260406:06
ubottuGnome bug 542604 in general "Recoverable errors on exit. No profile changes saved." [Critical,Unconfirmed]06:06
sbalneavok06:06
sbalneavSo rather than this patch, we'll need the other one.06:06
sbalneavmeh06:06
sbalneavenough for tonight.06:06
sbalneavand I still have to figure out why sabayon-apply's borked.06:07
sbalneavdeal with that tomorrow.06:07
sbalneavI'mma gonna head to bed.06:07
sbalneavnight all06:07
LaserJocksbalneav: night, good work06:08
NubaeLaserJock: when is meeting today?06:09
LaserJock20:00 UTC06:10
Nubaeok thanks06:10
LaserJockNubae: are you gonna make it?06:11
Nubaeyah07:41
LaserJockgreat07:43
asanchezGood morning everybody08:42
bencrisford2highvoltage: When is the edubuntu strat document session at the UDS?10:47
bencrisford2and what room, ill get a live stream10:47
stgraberright now10:47
stgraberroom 1310:47
bencrisford1highvoltage, stgraber: What time and what room is the edubuntu session stuff going on?11:05
stgraberbencrisford1: it just finished11:05
bencrisford1sh*t!11:06
bencrisford1my internet connection been dodgy all day11:06
bencrisford1:(11:06
bencrisford1stgraber: Any other sessions worth watching?11:06
bencrisford1watching/gobbying11:07
stgraberhighvoltage: ping11:07
bencrisford1stgraber: "Edubuntu Developers are Edubuntu Members who want to work on packaging and have shown that they're unlinely to do damage to any of the Edubuntu packages."  -- does that mean non-members cant package :O?11:09
highvoltagestgraber: pong11:11
pygihi14:12
bencrisford1Ello :)14:12
bencrisford1Did you run the session on burning earlier pygi?14:12
pygiyup14:13
bencrisford1Ah yes, I tuned in for a bit of it :)14:13
* pygi wonders what would that mean :p14:14
bencrisford1I listened the the live stream14:15
pygithere was a live stream lol?!14:16
bencrisford1lol14:16
pygigreetings ogra german :p14:16
bencrisford1millions of people14:16
bencrisford1millions listening to pygi talking about burning discs14:16
pygibencrisford1: stop joking with me :p14:16
bencrisford1I would give you an oscar, for best documentary14:17
pygithere were exactly three persons in the room xD14:17
bencrisford1lol :P14:17
bencrisford1and millions listening14:17
pyginoes!14:17
pygilies14:17
bencrisford1lo;l14:17
pygiedubuntu session was pretty cool14:17
pygiI am glad I was there14:18
bencrisford1If im honest I didnt intend to listen to you, but it was an accident14:18
bencrisford1I thought the edubuntu was an hour later than it was14:18
bencrisford1and i didnt realise until you started talking about brasero :P14:18
pygilol, so it was seriously streamed? :D14:18
bencrisford1yeah14:18
bencrisford1all the rooms are being streamed all day i think14:18
bencrisford1even when theres nothing there14:19
pygiargh xD14:19
bencrisford1i could hear the cleaners and what have you argueing after a session finished14:19
pygiI didn't knew that :D14:19
pygihi asanchez14:19
asanchezhi pygi14:19
pygibencrisford1: hehe :D14:19
pygibencrisford1: so did you learn something at least? ;-P14:19
bencrisford1:/ that i missed the edubuntu session14:20
pygibencrisford1: except that :p14:20
pygisomething about burning?14:20
pygibencrisford1: btw. don't worry, I'll post the notes to the mailing list tomorrow14:21
bencrisford1if im honest - not really, i only went on there for a minute or two im busy doing a 4 page essay on the british empire14:21
pygi:P14:21
bencrisford1did you mention my openweek idea btw?14:21
bencrisford1for developers14:21
pygino, not yet :-/ We didn't had time to focus on getting developers, but I think we'll schedule another session this week14:22
bencrisford1ok, cool :)14:22
* bencrisford1 wishes he was in barcelona, not writing a history essay14:22
pygiasanchez: you somewhere near the bazaar room?14:23
pygibencrisford1: tell him not to ignore me :p14:33
asanchezpygi, sorry, we're at Internal Package Repository Management (room 2)14:34
pygiasanchez: I'm joking :) O, I hope its interesting :)14:35
asanchezmm, nothing new14:36
bencrisford1can anyone turn up to the UDS?14:37
* bencrisford1 might jump on a plane :P (joke)14:37
asanchezwhere are you from bencrisford1 ?14:38
bencrisford1UK14:38
asanchezthis is so near14:38
asanchezthere are very cheap flights between UK and Spain14:39
bencrisford1yep14:39
bencrisford1but as im not actually a dev it would be a bit pointless14:39
bencrisford1if the UDS comes to the UK ill be there :)14:39
asanchezim not a developer too14:39
bencrisford1oh :/14:40
bencrisford1is the UDS coming to the uk any time soon?14:40
asanchezI don't know, i think many people from Canonical works in UK14:41
bencrisford1yeah including sabdfl himself :)14:41
bencrisford1id love to work for canonical :P14:42
sbalneavMorning all14:44
bencrisford1hi :)14:45
pygihi sbalneav14:47
bencrisford1asanchez: apparently the first UDS was UK, and the canonical team sprint is scotland14:48
bencrisford1so might not be in UK for a while14:48
bencrisford1but if it is14:48
bencrisford1you'll see me there hopefully14:48
bencrisford1UDS Hardy was 2006 right?14:54
asanchezUDS Hardy was 11/06 i think14:55
bencrisford1ah pl14:55
bencrisford1ok14:55
highvoltagehey bencrisford115:00
bencrisford1hey15:02
bencrisford1cant stop just going out15:02
bencrisford1back in 10 minutes or so :)15:02
sbalneavWhat's the general feeling here?  Should we patch up sabayon to use Xephyr, like Fedora? Or should we just stick with Xnest?  The only thing I can see that it would give us is composite support, but I'm not sure if that's particularily necessary for a window-in-window X desktop.15:03
sbalneavOTOH, xnest is directly supported by Xorg, which, one assumes, should be the most compatible with the host Xorg system15:04
sbalneavPersonally, I'm inclined to stick with Xnest, but I'm open to suggestions.15:04
sbalneav...15:05
* sbalneav listens to crickets15:05
nubaego for it15:07
nubae:-)15:07
pygisbalneav: ++ on xnest15:28
stgrabersbalneav: +1 (xnest)15:29
sbalneavpygi, stgraber yeah, thanks, that was my thought.  One less extra dependency too.15:46
sbalneavok, working on a different patch.15:46
sbalneavshould have a new build up in 20 minutes or so.15:46
sbalneavLooks like we also have to add .gvfs to the list of directories to ignore.17:02
sbalneavPatching that17:02
sbalneavgetting cloooooser...17:02
sbalneavOk, for anyone interested, sabayon 2.25.0-0ubuntu6 is being pushed to my ppa now17:22
sbalneavsabayon-apply (actually applying the profile) is still borken, but I can confirm that the profile's actually saving.17:22
sbalneavIf anyone's interested, give it a test when it appears in my ppa17:23
LaserJockwahoo17:25
LaserJocksbalneav: so was there any upstream Fedora/openSUSE patches for sabayon-apply?17:25
nubaewe're applying some patches in openSUSE... I'll let u know how it goes17:28
Lnssbalneav: that's awesome!!!17:29
LaserJockhighvoltage: ping17:32
stgraberhighvoltage: ping too17:35
nubaeping three17:37
nubae:d17:37
nubaeso meeting in 20 mins right?17:41
bencrisford1crap?  really? :P17:42
bencrisford1LaserJock: want me to take minutes?17:42
LaserJockstgraber: so, uh, what did you do to my strategy doc?17:42
LaserJockno more areas of focus?17:42
stgraberwe made it a bit shorter :) mainly by merging that into the objectives17:46
stgraberwe're trying to be less specific so we don't have to update it over and over17:46
LaserJockhmm, I think we'll need to discuss this some17:49
LaserJockfor me personally it's now so vague and short that it's lost a lot of power to direct17:49
stgrabersure, just waiting for highvoltage to join me downstairs17:49
highvoltageLaserJock: ping17:55
highvoltageI mean17:55
highvoltageLaserJock: pong17:55
highvoltagestgraber: pong too17:55
LaserJockhi17:55
highvoltageLaserJock: yes it needs some more discussion indeed, it's not finalised in any way17:56
LaserJockgood ;-)17:57
LaserJockso are we supposed to have our EC meeting now?17:57
* Lns has to go in about 5 min :(18:00
bencrisford1we better be quick then :P18:01
LaserJockstgraber, highvoltage: we're starting please18:01
bencrisford1we better check nubae is here18:01
LaserJockbencrisford1: you're doing minutes?18:01
bencrisford1sure if you want me to18:01
bencrisford1but if my internet goes18:02
bencrisford1someone else might need to18:02
LaserJockk18:02
LaserJockthis is the part of UDS I hate18:03
LaserJockeverybody is hard to get ahold of18:03
nubaeI am here18:04
highvoltageLaserJock: the areas and focus in addition to the other sections was a bit much18:04
LaserJockstgraber: here?18:04
stgraberLaserJock: yeah, next to highvoltage :)18:05
highvoltageLaserJock: ok I was just gone for a minute had to talk to someone but I'm here now18:05
LaserJock=== Start Edubuntu Council Meeting ===18:05
LaserJockok, who all is here today to apply for Edubuntu Membership?18:05
highvoltageso this is another impromptu EC meeting right?18:05
LaserJockhighvoltage: I thought this was the scheduled one18:05
nubaeI suppose its me and Lns18:05
highvoltage"or if you have applied before, please join us on18:06
highvoltage#ubuntu-meeting on the freenode network on Wednesday 27 May 2009 at18:06
highvoltage20:00 UTC."18:06
highvoltage(e-mail sent to edubuntu-devel"18:06
LaserJocksoooo, that's tomorrow?18:06
highvoltageyeah18:06
stgraberLaserJock: you got us a bit confused :)18:06
* LaserJock has lost track of all sense of time in pursuit of a PhD ;-)18:06
nubaeoh ok then :-=18:06
LaserJocknubae: can you make it tomorrow?18:06
nubaeyeah18:07
stgraberthat's tomorrow and a bit later (3 hours) so we can grab some food before then18:07
LaserJockwe can do it now if you can't18:07
highvoltagehold on18:07
bencrisford1LaserJock: So we're not doing it now?18:07
highvoltageyou already started it!18:07
nubaeheh18:07
bencrisford1highvoltage: no he didnt18:07
bencrisford1you didnt do the bong18:07
highvoltageI guess we can wait until tomorrow18:07
highvoltageno problem18:07
LaserJockhighvoltage: well, the 2 people we're expecting are here18:07
LaserJock*but* there could be more at the *right* time18:07
highvoltageI just had to snap into ec mode real quickly and out :)18:07
LaserJockLns might already be gone18:08
* nubae is usually around aynways, so no matter18:08
LnsI'm here, but leaving in ~30sec.18:08
* bencrisford1 just made the minutes look pretty :(18:08
LaserJockscrew it, let's do this18:08
highvoltageLaserJock: back to the strategy dock, I think we need to keep it really quick and snappy and get the message accross18:08
LaserJockargg18:08
highvoltageLaserJock: most of what's taken out was repeated and it's still there18:08
LaserJockLns: can you make the meeting tomorrow?18:09
* bencrisford1 prefers highvoltage in EC mode18:09
* bencrisford1 fumbles for the switch18:09
LnsLaserJock: yep, what time?18:09
LaserJock1pm our time18:09
highvoltage*FWOOP*18:09
bencrisford1CRAP!  Its 26th may!!!  my membership meeting is next week :'(18:10
LnsLaserJock: ahh...what's our time? =p18:10
LaserJockbencrisford1: Ubuntu Membership?18:10
bencrisford1yeah18:10
LaserJockLns: Pacific18:10
LnsLaserJock: oh yeah i forgot you live so close to me! ;)18:10
Lns*beers LaserJock*18:10
LaserJock;-)18:10
stgraberbencrisford1: oh really, so I'll see you there ;)18:11
bencrisford1oh ?18:11
stgraberI'm an EMEA council member18:11
LaserJockok, so EC meeting is voided because of LaserJock's stupidity18:11
bencrisford1ooh, do you take bribes?18:11
* Lns sunbirds tomorrow @1pm pst18:11
Lnscheers all18:11
LaserJockbencrisford1: btw, if a person is already an Ubuntu Member then Edubuntu Membership is easily obtained ;-)18:11
highvoltageciao Lns18:11
LaserJockLns: cya18:12
LaserJockok, ok, back to Strategy Doc18:12
LaserJockhere's my reasoning18:12
LaserJockI wanted do the following:18:12
LaserJock1) introduce what Edubuntu is18:12
LaserJock2) outline what our objectives and goals are18:12
LaserJock3) have specific strategies for how to achieve those objectives/goals18:13
LaserJock4) outline what the community looks like18:13
LaserJock5) outline our development policies and methods18:13
bencrisford1stgraber: Do you take bribes?18:14
stgraberbencrisford1: nah :)18:14
LaserJockI want to have something that when people come to our community they can read it and get a good grasp on what we do18:14
bencrisford1:(18:14
* bencrisford1 didnt just ask you that btw...18:14
stgraberand that chan isn't logged on a public web server btw ... :)18:15
* bencrisford1 smashes server with hammer18:15
LaserJockand something that when we're thinking of initiating a new program/ including new apps, etc. that we can turn to it for guidance18:15
bencrisford1no it isnt stagraber :)18:15
bencrisford1stgraber*18:15
stgraberhey ubuntulog18:15
bencrisford1lol, just to make sure - i was joking when i asked if you took bribes btw..18:16
LaserJockhighvoltage: so to me the current doc seems a bit to vague for giving a lot of guidance, what do you think?18:16
stgraberLaserJock: right but it was a bit too specific as it was including things like the whole metapackages list, and some technical details that may not be of general interest like the seeds and similar stuff18:16
highvoltageLaserJock: that looks like a good layout18:17
LaserJockstgraber: well, people don't have to read the whole thing18:17
LaserJockthe problem is that *nothing* is codified right now18:17
LaserJocknobody knows how Edubuntu is developed or what it really is18:17
highvoltageLaserJock: are you going to be here a while still? I mean, for several hours? after today I need an hour or two away from my computer18:18
LaserJockyes18:18
LaserJockI'll be here18:18
highvoltage(so would be nice if we can follow-up after dinner)18:18
highvoltageawesome18:18
LaserJockI like how you put the upstream relationships in objectives18:19
LaserJockI would call it "Strong Upstream Relationships"18:20
LaserJockto fit in grammatically with the other items18:20
sbalneavBack18:27
=== hibana_ is now known as hibana
LaserJocksbalneav: so, right now we can make and edit profiles but the fail to get applied, right?19:21
sbalneavI'm fixing that.  And the gconf dir wasn't getting saved19:27
sbalneavI've just come up with a couple more patches19:27
sbalneavOne that I cribbed and modified from upstream (had to add in not to save the .gvfs and .pulse dirs) and one that I fixed in the sabayon apply19:28
sbalneav0ubuntu7 should post in a couple minutes here, if my pbuilder reports a success :)19:29
LaserJocksbalneav: should the patches apply cleanly to 2.22.1?19:30
sbalneavDon't know.  Once I get 2.25 working, I'll look at a backport.19:30
sbalneavI can't see why not.19:31
sbalneavThere's really not much that's changed19:31
LaserJockyeah19:31
LaserJockI guess that's one nice thing about a dead upstream ;-)19:31
LaserJockI'd like to SRU Hardy and Intrepid19:32
sbalneavLadies and gentlemen, we have a winner19:40
sbalneavCreated profile19:41
sbalneavAdded stickey notes to top panel19:41
sbalneavsaved profile19:41
sbalneavsaid that profile should apply to me19:41
sbalneavlogged out19:41
sbalneavlogged in19:41
sbalneavsticky notes on top panel appeared as if by freaking magic.19:42
LaserJockwahoo19:42
sbalneavsabayon-2.25.0-0ubuntu7 in my ppa19:42
sbalneavit's saving dbus information, which it shouldn't, so I'll exclude that as well, but interested sabayon people can play with what's there.19:43
sbalneavLaserJock: Was it just sabayon that wasn't working, or did pessulus have bugs as well?20:01
LaserJockI *think* it was just sabayon20:02
LaserJockpessulus just munges gconf keys20:02
sbalneavAnother thing that I'll work on adding to sabayon: you can only apply profiles by *users*, really you'd realisticyally want to apply profiles by *group*20:04
sbalneavi.e. everyone in the "grade8" group gets this profile, everyone in "grade9" gets *this* one, etc.20:05
sbalneavOnce I get something like that going, we'll send patches upstream.20:05
LaserJockyeah20:06
LaserJockonce we get things actually working we can look at enhancements20:06
LaserJockbtw, the Ubuntu Desktop team is wanting to get rid of gnome-system-tools20:06
LaserJockthe only thing that we don't have a ready replacement for is useradmin20:07
sbalneavSaw that, but what will they replace with?  Write something on their own?20:07
LaserJockwell, they said they didn't have resources to write their own20:07
LaserJockand Fedora's is pretty Fedora-specific20:07
LaserJockso they're going to basically remove everything but useradmin from gnome-system-tools20:08
LaserJockand patch it to kinda work20:08
LaserJockand wait until fedora's stuff works out20:08
sbalneavWell, all that's really needed is just to rewrite the backend to be pam/ldap compliant20:09
sbalneavwith some kind of plugin arch.20:09
LaserJockright, and nobody seems to want to do that20:09
sbalneavsigh20:09
sbalneavthere a team for that?20:09
LaserJockno20:09
LaserJockI mean, it's Desktop Team but they're all packagers20:09
LaserJockwe're not upstreams20:10
sbalneavThere going to be a bof on it?20:10
LaserJocknot sure20:10
LaserJockthey had one already20:10
LaserJockbut I'm not sure if they're doing followups20:10
sbalneavWhat if I write one in python, ditch the perl one?20:11
sbalneavI'm not sure exactly how the front and back end tie together, some dbus magig that eludes me.20:11
sbalneavbut I could figure it out.20:12
LaserJockwell20:12
LaserJockI don't think they'd mind if somebody just rewrote the whole thing in python20:12
sbalneavWell, we don't want the whole thing, just the useradmin part, right?20:13
LaserJockexactly20:13
LaserJockall that is needed is a user and group admin tool20:14
sbalneavI have another question.20:14
LaserJockthe gobby doc is uds-karmic-no-gst20:14
sbalneavIf we were to create a "edubuntu-ldap-server", which would:20:16
sbalneav1) depend on openldap slapd, and20:16
sbalneav2) provide a pre-configured ldap schema for use with labs20:17
sbalneavhow would we:20:17
sbalneava) Override the questions that the slapd package asks20:17
sbalneavb) modify the slapd config in /etc without violating debian policy?20:18
LaserJocka) I'm not really sure, but I think you can "preseed" those20:19
LaserJockb) I'd have to check that one as well but I think something should be possible20:20
LaserJockit might require working with the server guys to make a change in the slapd package20:21
sbalneavWell, we'll burn that bridge when we come to it.20:23
sbalneavok20:24
sbalneavlooks like the packages are built in my ppa20:24
sbalneavif you'd like to test, give 'em a go.20:24
LaserJockDebian Policy says that the "owning" package of the config file should provide a program that can be run to modify the configuration20:25
LaserJockso I think that's saying that slapd should have a program that we could call, like update-slapd-config <path to our config file>20:27
LaserJockthe idea of having an ldap server meta-package sounds really promising though20:32
sbalneavwell, I'd like to have an edubuntu-ldap-server and edubuntu-ldap-client meta package, with just about everything configured20:33
sbalneavi.e., something that figures out your hostname, then creates a bog-standard ou=users,dc=your,dc=domain,dc=name and ou=groups,... hierarchy.20:35
sbalneavSo, if you had an edubunu box you'd want as your "ldap server", you'd install the edubuntu-ldap-server metapackage, it would set up the hierarchy for you.20:37
LaserJockyeah, I think that would totally rock20:38
sbalneavinstalling the edubuntu-ldap-client would then set up the correct auth-client-config profile, and apply it20:38
sbalneavthen if the "addusers" backend was ldap aware, you'd be in business.20:38
sbalneavAnother patch coming out in a few mintes20:39
sbalneavfor the .dbus dir ignore20:39
sbalneavLaserJock: still there?20:48
LaserJocksure am20:48
sbalneavHere's another packaging question20:48
sbalneavin the root dir of sabayon, there's a sabayon.schema file20:48
sbalneavI want that to go into /usr/share/docs/sabayon/examples20:49
sbalneavor the like.20:49
sbalneavdo I just add a line like:20:49
sbalneavsabayon.schema\t\t/usr/share/doc/sabayon/examples20:49
sbalneavto the sabayon.install file?20:49
LaserJockyeah20:50
sbalneavok20:51
=== hibana_ is now known as hibana
=== hibana_ is now known as hibana
=== hibana_ is now known as hibana
Ahmuckwhat's the current decision on what version of ubuntu is going to be considered the "supported" version of edubuntu?22:13
sbalneavNot sure a decision's been made yet.22:14
sbalneavMy own preference would be to align ourselves with the lts releases.22:14
sbalneavwork on getting what we need into karmic, and then freezing on that until the next lts22:15
sbalneavthen staying in sync with the lts releases from there on out.22:15
LaserJockAhmuck: how do you mean "supported"?22:16
pygisbalneav: I think we've established the same principle at today's session22:20
sbalneavwhich, at the uds?22:20
pygisbalneav: yes22:21
sbalneavSince I'm not there, i wasn't aware :)22:21
* bencrisford1 wishes he was there22:21
bencrisford1:(22:21
pygisbalneav: read blog post from jonathan22:21
sbalneavbencrisford1: yeah, you've said that a few times already.22:21
bencrisford1lol22:21
bencrisford1pygi: Is it on planet ubuntu22:21
pygibencrisford1: yea, he also took a picture of me!22:22
pygievil22:22
bencrisford1:P22:22
bencrisford1pygi: the pictures you, huh? :P22:23
bencrisford1:)22:23
pygibencrisford1: yes, sadly22:23
bencrisford1:P22:24
bencrisford1why sadly?22:25
pygibecause :p22:26
bencrisford1lol22:26
bencrisford1id be honoured if someone wanted to take a picture of me :P22:26
sbalneavWell, I've had enough of job + sabayon hacking for the day.22:27
AhmuckLaserJock: ie, LTS or every current release22:27
sbalneavOff for a quick brew.  Might be on later tonight.22:27
Ahmucki ask, because i22:27
pygilater sbalneav22:27
bencrisford1c ya sbalneav22:28
Ahmuck've put someone on to help build instructions, etc.  i need to know what release to target.  should i drop back to 8.04.1 with ltsp or 8.10 or 9.04 or etc.22:28
LaserJockI didn't think highvoltage's post said anything about targeted releases22:30
pygiLaserJock: not sure, but I think we've pretty much set on LTSs22:34
LaserJockwell, but we should be releasing something every 6 months22:35
pygiLaserJock: why so?22:35
LaserJockbecause you lose a lot of momentum22:35
pygiLaserJock: no you don't, if you distribute the application updates over PPA22:36
LaserJocki.e. that's why Ubuntu has 6 month releases instead of Debians 18-24 months22:36
pygiand every LTS for us means new features and change sand stuff22:36
pygibut we don't have as wide focus as Ubuntu has22:36
LaserJockI know, but seriously22:36
LaserJockit'd take a whole lot of work to jump22:36
* bencrisford1 offers a fiver to anyone who gives him a testimonial :P22:36
bencrisford1pygi: I've never been at a UDS, how is it that you folks are still on IRC the whole time?22:40
LaserJocka lot of people use irssi on an always-up server somewhere22:42
bencrisford1irssi?22:42
* bencrisford1 goes to wikipedia22:42
* stgraber is back22:42
* highvoltage too22:43
* bencrisford1 welcomes stgraber and highvoltage back22:44
bencrisford1anyone fancy giving me a testimonial for a fiver?22:45
bencrisford1:P22:46
bencrisford1brb22:46
pygibencrisford1: why not :)22:47
pygiits cool to be on irc22:47
highvoltageok now I'm back again with decent networking22:51
highvoltagesbalneav: ooh, nice on !sabyon22:53
highvoltageLaserJock: is there anything out there that could be used as a user/group management tool?22:53
highvoltageLaserJock: yes, I didn't say anything about LTS / release cycles yet because we probably just need to decide on it formally, perhaps we should do that at tomorrow nights meeting22:54
LaserJockhighvoltage: user/group management beyond what "Users and Groups" can do?23:01
LaserJocksome people seem to be using Kusers23:01
highvoltageLaserJock: yes. is Kusers a KDE app?23:01
LaserJockyep23:01
highvoltageLaserJock: is it packaged for ubuntu? I can't find it with apt-cache search. if so, do you have the package name for me?23:02
LaserJockwell, it's probably in kdebase or something23:02
LaserJockit's *the* user management tool for KDE23:03
bencrisford1pygi: yeah, it is :), i was just wondering how you guys are23:03
highvoltageok, I'll just install KDE then (what the heck)23:03
highvoltageLaserJock: and it does user management drastically better than user-admin?23:03
LaserJockpeople seem to like it a lot more for mass-user management23:04
LaserJockbut it's KDE so there's that inconsistency23:04
highvoltagepity KDE4 still has some major issues with LTSP23:04
highvoltageotherise it could be considered as the main education desktop23:04
highvoltageLaserJock: are you ok with objectives 1-3 on the strat doc?23:07
LaserJockif the end of 2 is fixed23:08
highvoltageoosh, where does that come from23:10
highvoltage"Integration with alternative desktops such as KDE, Xfce and Lxde will also be considered when implementing new features."23:11
highvoltageis that fine?23:11
* bencrisford123 is loving mibbit23:13
bencrisford1:D23:13
LaserJockhighvoltage: fine23:14
bencrisford1You know them mugshots everyone has on launchpad?  How do you make them?23:14
highvoltagebencrisford1: gimp23:14
bencrisford1is there a special filter?  or just magic wand + dorp shadow23:15
highvoltagebencrisford1: they're called hackegotchis, I think there's a hackergotchi howto somewhere on the wiki23:15
bencrisford1ok ty23:15
highvoltage19:12 < LaserJock> 1) introduce what Edubuntu is23:15
highvoltage"""23:16
highvoltageEdubuntu's mission is to provide educational software and content packages on top of Ubuntu. It forms part of the larger Ubuntu project and so brings with it Ubuntu's processes, philosophies and commitments. Edubuntu's focus is on integrating educational softwares and content, software development is left to upstream projects.23:16
highvoltage"""23:16
LaserJockhmm23:16
LaserJockseems a bit package/software heavy23:16
LaserJockwhat about community aspects?23:16
highvoltageLaserJock: I agree with that introduction. I think it just needs emphasis that Edubuntu is a group of people who do that work, or at least in some way bring lns's words in some big way23:16
highvoltageLaserJock: *exactly*23:16
highvoltageit nails the technical description of what edubuntu does, but it doesn't really say who we are nicely23:17
asanchezHi all!23:24
stgraberhi asanchez23:24
bencrisford1hey23:25
asanchezare you at the hotel?23:25
asanchezhey bencrisford123:26
stgraberyeah, I'm with highvoltage in the lobby23:26
LaserJockpaultag: want to introduce yourself?23:27
asanchezWe have wired connection at the room23:27
asanchezIm writing uds day2 report23:27
paultagHey Ya'll, I am looking to help with some MOTU stuff, I'm sure I'll be seeing a bit more of all of you :)23:28
JoshuaRLnice to meet you paultag :)23:28
paultagJoshuaRL, well fancy meeting you here :P23:28
highvoltageok here's a try at an improved introduction:23:29
highvoltage"""23:29
highvoltageEdubuntu is a community of people. Edubuntu is not necessarily a product but a group of people who work together on projects that benefits Ubuntu in education for our users.23:29
highvoltageEdubuntu's mission is to provide educational software, tools and content packages on top of Ubuntu. It forms part of the larger Ubuntu project and so brings with it Ubuntu's processes, philosophies and commitments. Edubuntu does not focus on developing software, but rather integrating upstream projects and reaching out to form strong bonds with the upstream projects.23:29
highvoltage"""23:29
paultaghighvoltage, :)23:29
highvoltageLaserJock / stgraber ^^^ perhaps need some language changes? my engrish sucks.23:29
highvoltagebut do you agree with the gist of it?23:29
highvoltagehi paultag23:29
LaserJockgimme a sec23:30
JoshuaRLpaultag: well, ive been meaning to set up an LTSP box, and when Vantrax|Work mentioned what he did, i was interested23:30
JoshuaRLhighvoltage: "but rather integrates upstream ... and reaches out to form strong bonds with upstream projects."23:30
* JoshuaRL is an english nerd23:31
highvoltageJoshuaRL: thanks, updated.23:32
highvoltageLaserJock: stgraber pointed out that the first paragraph has some redundency in it23:33
Vantrax|Workhighvoltage i would add 'to improve the usability of Ubuntu for educational environments' to the end23:33
highvoltageLaserJock: but that's kind of copied from lns's e-mail, he said it over and over, and it hits hard, it would be nice if the doc could reflect that23:33
highvoltageVantrax|Work: yeah, although that's more of what we do than who we are23:33
highvoltageVantrax|Work: and that fits in better with the objectives23:34
highvoltageVantrax|Work: but I 100% agree that it should be in there23:34
Vantrax|WorkI might think a reword for something more like Edubuntu is a community of people who work together on projects that benefits Ubuntu in education for our users.23:34
highvoltageyeah23:35
Vantrax|WorkEdubuntu is a community of people who work together on projects that improves the usability of Ubuntu in educational environments for our users.23:35
pygihighvoltage: and when I said we are people, you were like: duh!23:35
pygi:p23:35
highvoltagehere's an excerp from Lns's mail:23:35
highvoltage"""Edubuntu is a community of people.23:35
highvoltageEdubuntu is NOT a product. It's not a shiny liveCD, liveDVD, liveUSB, a23:35
highvoltagedistro, a collection of metapackages, LTSP, documentation, bugfixes to23:35
highvoltageeducational apps, themes, artwork, or marketing.23:35
highvoltageEdubuntu is a community of people.23:35
highvoltageWhat we do (projects) within the community should be encouraged and23:35
highvoltagesupported, as long as the goals of these individual projects align with23:35
highvoltage"Edubuntu" (Ubuntu + Education). Edubuntu can produce many things that23:35
highvoltagebenefit Ubuntu in Education. In fact, Edubuntu should produce ALL things23:35
highvoltagethat benefit Ubuntu in Education.23:35
highvoltage"""23:35
highvoltagepygi: I 100% agreed with you23:36
Vantrax|Worki think that line summarised that quite well. Edubuntu (Ubuntu + Education) is a community of people who work together on projects that improves the usability of Ubuntu in educational environments for our users.23:36
highvoltagepygi: but yes, duh.23:36
highvoltageupdated introduction:23:39
highvoltage"""23:39
highvoltageEdubuntu is a community of people. Edubuntu is not necessarily a product or a disc or a distribution, but a group of people who work together on projects that benefits Ubuntu in education for our users.23:39
highvoltageEdubuntu's mission is to provide educational software, tools and content packages on top of Ubuntu. It forms part of the larger Ubuntu project and so brings with it Ubuntu's processes, philosophies and commitments. Edubuntu does not focus on developing software, but rather integrates upstream projects and reaches out to form strong bonds with its users, upstream projects and other similar projects.23:40
highvoltage"""23:40
LaserJocklet's not say what Edubuntu is not23:43
LaserJockit should be a positive statement of who and what we are23:43
LaserJockthat it's a community of people is I think a bit too simplified for what we mean23:44
JoshuaRLits a project, not a community23:44
LaserJockit's both23:44
* Lns pokes his head around23:44
highvoltageLaserJock: it's something that needs to be said though. any suggestion for improvement?23:44
LaserJockyes23:44
JoshuaRLa project has community roots and involvement, but is a little different than a community23:45
* Lns agrees w/Laserjock that any statement should be "positive" (i.e. don't say what we're not)23:45
highvoltage"""23:45
highvoltageEdubuntu is a group of people that are passionate about education and free software. It is a group of people who work together on projects that benefits Ubuntu in education.23:45
highvoltage"""23:45
highvoltageis that better?23:45
Lnshighvoltage: s/free/open source/ ?23:46
highvoltageI guess "open source" is more ubuntu'y23:47
JoshuaRLhighvoltage: free software.  We work together ... that benefit Ubuntu ..."23:47
Lns....or even gnu/linux'y?23:47
LaserJockEdubuntu is a community project whose mission is to bring the philosophy, passions, and promises of the Ubuntu to educational settings.23:47
highvoltageI like "free software" more but if anyone feels strong about it I guess we can change it23:47
LaserJocks/of the/of/23:48
JoshuaRLhighvoltage: free software is more inclusive23:48
LaserJockfree software is also more confusing :-023:48
Lnshighvoltage: I dunno. A *lot* of non-OSS people equate "Free Software" with "Freeware" (and thus "crap")23:48
highvoltages/educational settings/educational environments/ ?23:48
LaserJockyeah23:48
LaserJockI *think* that's our "take home" statement right? We're Ubuntu for Education23:49
Lnsespecially in educational environments where they scour around for cheap software23:49
highvoltageLns: well, educating people who are ignorant is better than ignoring the ignorance23:49
Lnshighvoltage: I agree 100%...but you can't expect to educate someone with your mission statement alone23:49
LaserJockhighvoltage: alternatively, educating people without intro statement isn't necessarily a good diea23:50
LaserJocks/without/with the/23:50
* LaserJock can't type23:50
LaserJockanybody object to: Edubuntu is a community project whose mission is to bring the philosophy, passions, and promises of Ubuntu to educational environments.23:50
JoshuaRLLaserJock: sounds nice23:51
JoshuaRLLaserJock: but i shouldnt have a vote :)23:51
LnsLaserJock: "Promises" kinda doesn't sit well with me but i love the rest23:51
LaserJockLns: well, Ubuntu has the 4 promises, which Edubuntu has traditionally also promoted23:52
Lnsok...point taken from upstream ;)23:52
highvoltageI think it's important to say that edubuntu is part of ubuntu.23:52
highvoltage"""23:52
highvoltageEdubuntu is a community project within Ubuntu whose mission is to bring the philosophy, passions, and promises of Ubuntu to educational environments.23:52
highvoltagehow is that?23:52
highvoltage"""23:53
LaserJockI can go with that I think23:53
JoshuaRLhighvoltage: i think the "how is that?" is superfluous23:53
JoshuaRL:)23:53
highvoltagepygi / stgraber / Lns ^^^ ?23:53
stgraberhighvoltage: +123:53
LaserJockI'd like to avoid "based on" or "derived from", etc. as that is somewhat limiting23:53
highvoltageJoshuaRL: yes it is. sue me.23:53
LaserJockbut "within" is accurate and short ;-)23:54
Lnshighvoltage: I'm good with that, though the double "Ubuntu" ... i don't want to be nit-picky =)23:54
Lnsi'm good =)23:54
highvoltageLns: heh23:55
LaserJockI'm not sure how to reword to get rid of an Ubuntu23:55
LaserJockoh, I know23:55
Lnshow about...23:55
LaserJockEdubuntu is a community project within Ubuntu whose mission is to bring its philosophy, passions, and promises to educational environments.23:56
Lns"Edubuntu is a community project within Ubuntu whose mission is to bring its philosophies, passions, and promises to educational environments."23:56
Lnsha!23:56
LaserJockscore!!23:56
* Lns highfives #edubuntu23:56
highvoltageobjective 1:23:56
highvoltage"""23:56
highvoltageThe first objective of Edubuntu is to bring an education focus to Ubuntu. This means packaging and maintaining learning, teaching, and administration tools targeted at the educational user experience. Edubuntu will strive to make it easy to install and use educational software that applies to all ages, subjects, languages and all ability levels. Edubuntu recognizes that education is not just tools, but also content. It also sees the need23:56
LaserJockwoah23:57
LaserJockwe're not done with the intro yet are we?23:57
* highvoltage rewinds23:58
LaserJockthat was just the intro sentence23:58
highvoltageLaserJock: ok23:58
LaserJocknow we gotta summarize what that all means23:58
LaserJockand basically outline everything to come23:58
highvoltageI guess I'm too big a fan of simplicity and keeping things short.23:58
highvoltageok23:58
LaserJockshort is good, for sure23:59
LaserJockand I'm often wordy23:59
LaserJockbut we need to make sure people can read this and understand23:59
* LaserJock is in thesis mode so watch out23:59

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