[00:00] <highvoltage> "This document provides an overview of Edubuntu's objectives, the community and its governance and code of conduct." - something similar to that?
[00:00] <Lns> LaserJock: let's not make this thesis-like ;)
[00:00] <LaserJock> highvoltage: yeah
[00:00] <LaserJock> but first
[00:01] <LaserJock> oh, and perhaps we should s/promises/commitments/ in the first sentence
[00:01] <LaserJock> we don't want to overdue it maybe
[00:01] <highvoltage> ok
[00:01] <highvoltage> "promise" is actually a positive word if you're not very cynical ;)
[00:01] <highvoltage> but ok
[00:02] <LaserJock> yeah, well, there are a lot of cynics out there ;-)
[00:02] <highvoltage> """
[00:02] <highvoltage> Edubuntu is a community project within Ubuntu whose mission is to bring the philosophy, passions, and commitments of Ubuntu to educational environments.
[00:03] <highvoltage> This document outlines the objectives, governance, teams and code of conduct of the Edubuntu project.
[00:03] <highvoltage> """
[00:03] <highvoltage> well, s/teams/team structures
[00:03] <LaserJock> Edubuntu aims to deliver the best that the open software world has to offer by focusing on educational applications, integration of software, usability in the educational setting, and strong relationships with software developers.
[00:05] <highvoltage> ok we just need to cut the redundency there, we've already mentioned the educational setting
[00:05] <LaserJock> fine
[00:05] <LaserJock> put that in between your two sentences and I think we've pretty much got it
[00:05] <highvoltage> I like it when LaserJock is this agreeable.
[00:05] <LaserJock> lol
[00:05] <highvoltage> :p
[00:06] <LaserJock> I am the official Ubuntu Devil's Advocate you know ;-)
[00:07] <highvoltage> pasty:
[00:07] <highvoltage> """
[00:07] <highvoltage> Edubuntu is a community project within Ubuntu whose mission is to bring the philosophy, passions, and commitments of Ubuntu to educational environments. Edubuntu aims to deliver the best that the open software world has to offer by focusing on educational applications, integration of software, usability, and strong relationships with all role players which include our users, maintainers and upstream projects.
[00:07] <highvoltage> This document outlines the objectives, governance, team structures and code of conduct of the Edubuntu project.
[00:07] <highvoltage> """
[00:07] <LaserJock> awesome
[00:08] <highvoltage> I think that's quite a bit better than we had a few days ago
[00:09] <highvoltage> the grammar people can help us a bit later to get it just right, but the message is there.
[00:09] <highvoltage> shall we move over to objectives?
[00:09] <LaserJock> yes please
[00:09] <highvoltage> Objective 1: Education
[00:09] <highvoltage> The first objective of Edubuntu is to bring an education focus to Ubuntu. This means packaging and maintaining learning, teaching, and administration tools targeted at the educational user experience. Edubuntu will strive to make it easy to install and use educational software that applies to all ages, subjects, languages and all ability levels. Edubuntu recognizes that education is not just tools, but also content. It also sees the need
[00:09] <highvoltage> (I'm not sure if IRC truncated that, it should end in "instruction")
[00:10] <highvoltage> "user experience" sounds so weasily to me.
[00:10] <LaserJock> we ended at "It also sees the need"
[00:11] <highvoltage> It also sees the need to enable learning and quality instruction.
[00:12] <LaserJock> highvoltage: got something better for "user experience"?
[00:13] <highvoltage> """
[00:13] <highvoltage> The first objective of Edubuntu is to bring an education focus to Ubuntu. This means packaging and maintaining learning, teaching, content and administration tools targeted at the educational user. Edubuntu will strive to make it easy to install and use educational software. It aims to be inclusive of all ages, subjects, languages and ability levels.
[00:13] <highvoltage> """
[00:13] <highvoltage> I simplified it a bit. too much so or not?
[00:14] <LaserJock> well, it says it all I think
[00:14] <LaserJock> I think maybe what we need to do is make these objectives bullet points rather than whole sections
[00:14] <highvoltage> lol. "wow, this one was quite fast" -stgraber
[00:15] <LaserJock> you're killing the wondering section flow :-)
[00:15] <highvoltage> ok
[00:15] <LaserJock> so we could do:
[00:15] <LaserJock> 1. ''Education'' - The first objective of Edubuntu is to bring an education focus to Ubuntu. This means packaging and maintaining learning, teaching, content and administration tools targeted at the educational user. Edubuntu will strive to make it easy to install and use educational software. It aims to be inclusive of all ages, subjects, languages and ability levels.
[00:16] <highvoltage> """
[00:16] <highvoltage>  * Bring an education focus to Ubuntu.
[00:16] <highvoltage>  * Packaging and maintaining learning, teaching, content and administration tools relevant to education
[00:16] <highvoltage>  * Strive to make it easy to install and use educational software.
[00:16] <highvoltage>  * Be inclusive of all ages, subjects, languages and ability levels.
[00:16] <highvoltage> """
[00:16] <highvoltage> oh I thought you meant bullet points like above
[00:16]  * Lns likes the bullets much better
[00:17] <LaserJock> nah, I think with how you're shortening things
[00:17] <highvoltage> (see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/StrategyDocument for what it looks like right now)
[00:17] <LaserJock> we can just do the whole objectives section as a list
[00:17] <Vantrax|Work> its looking good
[00:17] <highvoltage> any comments on objective 1 atm?
[00:18] <LaserJock> I like what I pasted last :-)
[00:18] <highvoltage> it's not really bulleted though
[00:19] <highvoltage> hmm, maybe combine the concepts... let me try something
[00:19] <highvoltage> I think the words "objective 1" "objective 2", etc should be removed. it kind of implies that one objective is more important than the other
[00:20] <LaserJock> that's why I had:
[00:20] <LaserJock> 1. ''Education''
[00:20] <LaserJock> or we could do:
[00:20] <highvoltage> I thought so, I liked that
[00:20] <LaserJock>  * ''Education''
[00:20] <LaserJock> but yeah, good idea
[00:20] <highvoltage> LaserJock: refresh wiki page and look at how it is now?
[00:20] <highvoltage> LaserJock: I kept it as headings instead of just bold
[00:21] <highvoltage> LaserJock: but I think it's cleaner and more readable now
[00:21] <LaserJock> hmmf
[00:21] <LaserJock> gimme a try at it ;-)
[00:24] <Vantrax|Work> link to wiki page?
[00:25] <LaserJock> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/StrategyDocument
[00:26] <LaserJock> highvoltage: ^^
[00:27] <highvoltage> ok
[00:28] <LaserJock> that's fairly compact
[00:28] <LaserJock> you like it ok?
[00:28] <LaserJock> or do you prefer the other way?
[00:28] <highvoltage> can I cut some weasel out?
[00:29] <LaserJock> sure
[00:29] <highvoltage> """
[00:29] <highvoltage>  1. '''Education''' - To bring an education focus to Ubuntu. Packaging and maintaining learning, teaching, content and administration tools targeted at educational. Edubuntu strives to make it easy to install and use educational software. It aims to be inclusive of all ages, subjects, languages and ability levels."""
[00:30] <highvoltage> wait that needs more work, one moment please
[00:31] <highvoltage> """
[00:31] <highvoltage>  1. '''Education''' - To bring an education focus to Ubuntu. To package and maintain administration, learning, teaching and content targeted at education. Edubuntu strives to make it simple to install and use educational software. It aims to be inclusive of all ages, subjects, languages and ability levels.
[00:31] <highvoltage> """
[00:33] <LaserJock> yeah, good
[00:33] <stgraber> +1
[00:35] <highvoltage> """
[00:35] <highvoltage>  1. '''Integration''' - To integrate educational applications and tools with the rest of the Ubuntu desktop. To Integrate with popular desktop environments such as Gnome, KDE, Xfce and Lxde. Integration is a consideration with all new features that are implemented in Edubuntu."""
[00:36] <LaserJock> it's LXDE I think
[00:37] <LaserJock> it feels like there should maybe be a bit more about what exactly "integration" means
[00:38] <Lns> yikes.
[00:38] <highvoltage> I think so too, chanced
[00:38] <Lns> imho, we really need to remember to KISS
[00:39] <highvoltage> LaserJock: hmm, I think the stat doc was too much of a dictionary before
[00:39] <LaserJock> well, yeah
[00:39] <Vantrax|Work> yeah, how much detail is required, as opposed to how much can be there. No need to get specific.
[00:39] <LaserJock> but like, it has to make sense to more than just us
[00:39] <LaserJock> well, we *have* to get specific somewhere
[00:39] <highvoltage> we can link to the wikipedia page on what integration means?
[00:39] <LaserJock> perhaps not in this doc
[00:39] <Vantrax|Work> Is just say ' To integrate educational applications and tools with the rest of the Ubuntu desktop and with popular desktop environments.
[00:40] <highvoltage> ok you have a point though
[00:40] <LaserJock> no, I don't mean a dictionary definition
[00:40] <LaserJock> I mean, so what is "integration" going to look like for us
[00:40] <Lns> if anyone is unsure of the meaning of a word we should change the word
[00:40] <LaserJock> a big part is making sure that apps from one DE work well in other DEs
[00:41] <Vantrax|Work> yes, kde apps tend to have issues under ubuntu due to missing help files etc
[00:41] <LaserJock> I don't think we need a definition, just some context
[00:41] <Lns> we need to remember that we're not talking to a bunch of college buffs, we're talking to normal people that want to get computers going for their local school
[00:41] <highvoltage> ok, I think this might add some clarity, perhaps the enrish nerds can help a bit with the language:
[00:41] <Lns> they're going to glaze over with too much wording and just click out of IE
[00:41] <highvoltage> """
[00:41] <highvoltage> """
[00:41] <highvoltage>  1. '''Integration''' - To integrate educational applications and tools with the rest of the Ubuntu desktop. To Integrate with popular desktop environments such as Gnome, KDE, Xfce and LXDE. Integration is a consideration with all new features that are implemented for Edubuntu. Integration is the process of ensuring that features are packaged, accessible with and consistent with the rest of the system.
[00:42] <sbalneav> back
[00:42] <highvoltage> Lns: pygi mentioned that yesterday as well. having too many useless words in there put people off.
[00:42] <LaserJock> Lns: I would say that this doc is not primarily for general users
[00:42] <Lns> isn't it going to be on the wiki front page?
[00:42] <LaserJock> I didn't think so no
[00:43] <Lns> oh, ok..
[00:43] <highvoltage> Lns: probably linked from there, but it's not meant to be marketing material as such
[00:43] <Lns> gotcha
[00:43] <LaserJock> I was viewing it primary for us as a community and for potential contributors and people wanting to know more about Edubuntu
[00:43] <highvoltage> we want our contributors and potential contributos to be able to understand and agree with it though
[00:44] <highvoltage> "steakholders"
[00:44] <LaserJock> right
[00:44] <LaserJock> it should be fairly low-level language, though, that's true
[00:44] <highvoltage> like, C?
[00:44] <LaserJock> but it needs to be fairly meaningful, which does mean some clarity
[00:44] <LaserJock> yeah
[00:44] <LaserJock> no asm
[00:44] <highvoltage> eesh. this is going to take a bit longer then :)
[00:44] <LaserJock> not python
[00:45] <LaserJock> hehe
[00:45] <highvoltage> from edubuntu import introduction
[00:45] <Vantrax|Work> perl?
[00:45] <highvoltage> ok so comments on that last integration paste pls.
[00:45] <highvoltage> I'll paste it again for your convenience
[00:45] <highvoltage> """
[00:45] <highvoltage> Integration - To integrate educational applications and tools with the rest of the Ubuntu desktop. To Integrate with popular desktop environments such as Gnome, KDE, Xfce and LXDE. Integration is a consideration with all new features that are implemented for Edubuntu. Integration is the process of ensuring that features are packaged, accessible with and consistent with the rest of the system.
[00:46] <highvoltage> """
[00:46] <LaserJock> how about this:
[00:46] <LaserJock> Integration - To integrate educational applications and tools with the rest of the Ubuntu desktop, ensuring that features are accessible and consistent with the rest of the system. To Integrate with popular desktop environments such as Gnome, KDE, Xfce and LXDE. Integration is a consideration with all new features that are implemented for Edubuntu.
[00:47] <highvoltage> that is perfect.
[00:47] <highvoltage> (imho)
[00:47] <highvoltage> it kind of implies what integration is as well to people who aren't familiar with the concept
[00:48] <stgraber> looks good
[00:49] <highvoltage> any further comments or suggestions? does the concept of integration need expantion? I don't think so considering our target audience. ubuntu contributors should generally be familiar with the concept.
[00:50] <LaserJock> I just wanted some indication of what kinds of things it would mean
[00:50] <LaserJock> so it wasn't just "yeah, we're going to  integrate ... whatever that means"
[00:50] <highvoltage> maybe s/ubuntu desktop/ubuntu system/
[00:51] <highvoltage> considering that we already mention the desktop environments
[00:51] <LaserJock> sure
[00:51] <highvoltage> I think that we mention what needs to be integrated and that it makes it pretty clear what we mean by integration, unless there's something I'm missing or that there's some scope that I'm not aware of
[00:52] <highvoltage> btw, could "Objectives" be changed to "Objectives and Goals"? or do you consider goals to be a seperate section?
[00:53] <LaserJock> I would kind of say they are the same
[00:53] <LaserJock> but goals more what we said in the Intro
[00:53] <highvoltage> ok
[00:54] <highvoltage> pasting again to keep things going:
[00:54] <LaserJock> do Objectives and Goals if you like, I don't mind
[00:54] <highvoltage> """
[00:54] <highvoltage>  1. '''Integration''' - To integrate educational applications and tools with the rest of the Ubuntu system. To Integrate with popular desktop environments such as Gnome, KDE, Xfce and LXDE. Integration is a consideration with all new features that are implemented for Edubuntu. Integration is the process of ensuring that features are packaged, accessible with and consistent with the rest of the system.
[00:54] <highvoltage> """
[00:54] <LaserJock> great
[00:56] <highvoltage> we can language-fix that somewhat later too, but I think it gets the concept down
[00:56] <highvoltage> shall we move on for now?
[00:56] <LaserJock> yes please
[00:56] <highvoltage> """
[00:56] <highvoltage>  1. '''Usability''' - To adapt desktop environments, theming and the Ubuntu operating system itself to be as usable and apt as possible in an educational environment.
[00:56] <highvoltage> """
[00:56] <highvoltage> that could possibly do with some expantion
[00:57] <LaserJock> hmm
[00:57] <LaserJock> yeah
[00:57] <LaserJock> not sure about "adapt"
[00:58] <highvoltage> yeah, stgraber mentioned that "apt" isn't a very good word to use either
[00:58] <highvoltage> LaserJock: care giving a replacement for "Usability" a bash? I'm a bit stumped here
[00:58] <highvoltage> (or anyone else of course)
[00:59] <LaserJock> my original was:
[00:59] <LaserJock> Edubuntu's third objective is to provide a highly usable interface for both students and teachers. Usability for adults may be very different than usability for children and so special testing and considerations need to be made. Individual educational applications should be tested by target user groups to gain feedback for upstream developers.
[00:59] <LaserJock> Enhancements to operating system and desktop environment such as theming and menus should be explored to make Ubuntu better suited to educational user
[01:01] <highvoltage> it gets the bulk of the message accross but it's not fun to read
[01:01] <LaserJock> yeah, let's compact it
[01:01] <highvoltage> and objectify it
[01:01] <highvoltage> ie, start the sentences with "To..."
[01:04] <highvoltage> if we can nail this part then we'll at least have:
[01:04] <highvoltage> 19:12 < LaserJock> I wanted do the following:
[01:04] <highvoltage> 19:12 < LaserJock> 1) introduce what Edubuntu is
[01:04] <highvoltage> 19:13 < LaserJock> 2) outline what our objectives and goals are
[01:04] <highvoltage> which is a good chunk of the doc.
[01:05] <highvoltage> both stgraber and I will need to get some sleep soon otherwise we'll be useless tomorrow
[01:06] <LaserJock> - To provide a highly usable interface for both students and teachers. Applications, themes, menus, and desktop environment will be tested and enhanced where possible specifically for children and learning environments.
[01:06] <LaserJock> highvoltage: ^^ any better?
[01:09] <highvoltage> LaserJock: yes, much
[01:10] <LaserJock> highvoltage: want me to make the change in the wiki?
[01:10] <LaserJock> highvoltage: I can work on it for a little while longer while you and stgraber get some sleep
[01:11] <highvoltage> doing so...
[01:12] <highvoltage> change applied.
[01:12] <highvoltage> LaserJock: yes please, that will be appreciated
[01:13] <highvoltage> at least we have 2/5 now that's pretty much decent
[01:13] <highvoltage> 19:13 < LaserJock> 4) outline what the community looks like
[01:13] <highvoltage> # 4 is also pretty much there, might just need some cleaning up
[01:13] <highvoltage> 19:13 < LaserJock> 3) have specific strategies for how to achieve those objectives/goals
[01:13] <LaserJock> right
[01:13] <LaserJock> I think I'll work on that some tonight
[01:13] <highvoltage> #3 will definitely need some work, probably the only hard part that's left
[01:14] <LaserJock> basically some of the specifics of how we're going to develop Edubuntu
[01:14] <LaserJock> not *too* specific
[01:14] <LaserJock> but sort of a brief "Edubuntu developer's guide"
[01:14] <highvoltage> #3 is probably good to flesh out a bit if you are up to it tonight still
[01:14] <highvoltage> 19:14 < LaserJock> 5) outline our development policies and methods
[01:14] <LaserJock> I'm going to combine 3 and 5 I think
[01:14] <highvoltage> 5 is easy because we basically copy most of it from ubuntu
[01:14] <highvoltage> ok
[01:15] <highvoltage> LaserJock: ok, thanks a lot for everything, going to sleep now
[01:15] <highvoltage> g'night #edubuntu
[01:15] <LaserJock> thank you guys for all the work
[01:16] <stgraber> yeah, 5 hours of sleep ahead :)
[01:16] <sbalneav> Night
[01:16] <highvoltage> night scotty!
[01:17] <stgraber> night everyone
[02:58] <Ahmuck> Lns, with software being given to them for free, are they scouring for free software anymore?
[03:25] <sbalneav> Hmmm, mandatory key settings aren't being saved.
[03:25] <sbalneav> defaults are, but not mandatoru
[08:24] <stgraber> highvoltage: saw that dent from mdz ? :)
[08:29] <highvoltage> stgraber: heh, yeah
[08:29] <pygi> hi highvoltage
[08:34] <highvoltage> hi pygi
[08:49] <pygi> highvoltage: when is the meeting today
[08:51] <highvoltage> pygi: 15:10 room 5. I need to give jono another poke, we did request to put it on the schedule yesterday but it's not on the schedule yet
[09:06] <pygi> highvoltage: ah
[10:21] <bencrisford1> Mornin' All
[10:21] <bencrisford1> pygi, highvoltage, stgraber: Anything exiting going down at the UDS?
[10:21] <pygi> bencrisford1: a new session today probably
[10:21] <pygi> just sent a bzr patch :)
[10:22] <bencrisford1> :) cool
[10:22]  * bencrisford1 goes to UDS timetable
[10:23] <bencrisford1> its 11:23 there right?
[10:26] <pygi> bencrisford1: yes
[10:29] <pygi> oh noes, ogra, the german appeared! :p
[10:35] <bencrisford1> pygi: What room you in at the UDS?
[10:35] <pygi> bencrisford1: now?
[10:35] <bencrisford1> yup
[10:35] <pygi> bazaar room
[10:35] <pygi> why?
[10:35] <bencrisford1> what number, im gonna tune in
[10:35] <bencrisford1> all the other rooms are boring ;P
[10:36] <pygi> bencrisford1: there's no streaming from this room
[10:36] <bencrisford1> darn :P
[10:36] <pygi> heheheheheh
[10:37] <bencrisford1> why is my ftp so ruddy slow :(
[11:21] <stgraber> highvoltage: ping
[11:31] <highvoltage> stgraber: pong
[11:31] <stgraber> highvoltage: managed to nag jono to get the edubuntu session scheduled ?
[11:32] <highvoltage> stgraber: I e-mailed him again, but haven't seen it on yet, haven't run into him yet
[11:37] <bencrisford1> are we talking about a UDS session?
[11:40] <bencrisford1> highvoltage: I saw your blog on planet ubuntu :), how did you get the thing at the side with your lp page, youtube page, linkedin page etc.
[11:40] <bencrisford1> the links thing?
[11:45] <bencrisford1> is it just the links widget with pictures?
[12:18] <bencrisford1> ech-o
[12:45] <highvoltage> bencrisford1: it's a text widget
[12:47] <bencrisford1> oh
[12:48] <bencrisford1> highvoltage: finishing off my second hackergotchi :D
[12:56] <highvoltage> bencrisford1: great!
[12:56] <bencrisford1> One photo one, and one cartoon one
[12:56] <bencrisford1> I don't like the photo one as much though, i guess its cos its got a picture of me in it
[13:56]  * highvoltage asks the irc gods to summon laserjock by 15:10 or so
[13:59] <bencrisford1> lol
[14:00] <bencrisford1> whats at 15.10 highvoltage?
[14:09] <highvoltage> bencrisford1: edubuntu session on karmic, you can participate via gobby, documentname edubuntu-karmic
[14:09] <bencrisford1> oh, nice
[14:10] <bencrisford1> is it in one of the main rooms?
[14:10] <bencrisford1> cos there might be a stream
[14:11] <highvoltage> room 5
[14:11] <bencrisford1> nice
[14:11] <bencrisford1> ill stream it
[14:13] <bencrisford1> hmm, try saying Hi Ben
[14:13] <bencrisford1> see if i hear
[14:13] <bencrisford1> highvoltage: *
[14:14] <bencrisford1> w00t
[14:14] <bencrisford1> :)
[14:14] <bencrisford1> I hear EVERYTHIGN
[14:14] <bencrisford1> :D
[14:14] <highvoltage> we're just hanging on a but, will start in just a minute or so
[14:14] <bencrisford1> alright, if i disconnect, its my internet
[14:14] <bencrisford1> im joining gobby
[14:15] <bencrisford1> but it might crash my internet
[14:15] <bencrisford1> whats the port for gobby.ubuntu.com?
[14:18] <bencrisford1> highvoltage: I cant connect to gobby, so can you guys can sorts tell us whats goin on?
[14:19] <highvoltage> bencrisford1: neither can we, seems like something just went wrong with gobby.ubuntu.com
[14:19] <bencrisford1> alright
[14:19] <bencrisford1> maybe someone else should host?
[14:19] <BenoitStandre> same here (hello all)
[14:20] <highvoltage> bencrisford1: stgraber is hosting a local one
[14:21] <bencrisford1> local :O :(
[14:21] <bencrisford1> i hate that word :(
[14:22] <bencrisford1> highvoltage: I had an idea of an openday/openweek for edubuntu.  We could mention that
[14:22] <bencrisford1> its related
[14:22] <bencrisford1> :)
[14:23] <bencrisford1> dw if you dont get time
[14:29] <bencrisford1> highvoltage, stgraber: At some point can we mention documentation?  Because like ubuntu has special documentation for developers, I think we should have special documentation for kids
[14:29] <bencrisford1> like devhelp for kids and teachers
[14:29] <bencrisford1> eduhelp perhaps?
[14:30] <BenoitStandre> bencrisford1: for kids/teacher documentation , it's important to have it localized , so we have to be careful not to "shoot" too large (and duplicate other efforts)
[14:31] <bencrisford1> hmm, I guess
[14:31] <bencrisford1> but maybe if most of the communication was through pictures
[14:31] <bencrisford1> diagrams and pictures, maybe even videos
[14:31] <BenoitStandre> meaning screenshots ?
[14:31] <bencrisford1> yeah
[14:31] <bencrisford1> and if you have used cpanel
[14:31] <BenoitStandre> those have to be localized as well :-)
[14:31] <bencrisford1> all the help are video tutorials
[14:32] <bencrisford1> and if the layout of edubuntu is the same in all languages
[14:32] <bencrisford1> then you can use videos fine
[14:33] <BenoitStandre> (just found I could listen to what's going on.... listening !)
[14:34] <BenoitStandre> thanks stgraber !
[14:37] <BenoitStandre> I would add that it's not only by country , but also by province/state (because education is often a local jurisdiction)
[14:37] <BenoitStandre> so it would make more and more packages
[14:37] <BenoitStandre> In Canada and USA for sure
[14:38] <bencrisford1> I just got back, whaddid i miss
[14:38] <BenoitStandre> talking about the way to manage menus
[14:38] <bencrisford1> ah
[14:39] <BenoitStandre> that would fit for different needs following education systems all over the world
[14:39] <bencrisford1> yeah
[14:41] <asanchez> It would be nice to have a easy way to adapt (and translate) Education menu
[14:42] <BenoitStandre> stgraber , did you conclude anything on that , besides not using packages ? (we can't follow your Gobby)
[14:43] <stgraber> BenoitStandre: got it ?
[14:43] <BenoitStandre> stgraber: got it.... but, usually, different config would be done in different school districts
[14:44] <highvoltage> did you get that?
[14:44] <stgraber> asanchez: where are you ?
[14:44] <BenoitStandre> so it would be afterwards at a system wide level, not necessarily at a user level
[14:44] <stgraber> asanchez: we have a meeting right now in room 5
[14:44] <stgraber> (edubuntu)
[14:45] <asanchez> I dont know nothing about the meeting, sorry
[14:45] <highvoltage> asanchez: no problem, we couldn't get it on the official schedule in time, we did email jono yesterday but it seems that he didn't have time to add it
[14:46] <highvoltage> asanchez: we'd like you to join if possible, we just had a discussion about menus and it would be nice to have your input
[14:46] <bencrisford1> ARRRGGHH!  my cats coughing up a hairball on my bed :'(
[14:46] <asanchez> Im moving to room 5
[14:46] <bencrisford1> brb
[14:46] <highvoltage> asanchez: great!
[14:49] <sbalneav> Morning all
[14:49] <BenoitStandre> morning !
[14:50] <bencrisford1> mornin'
[14:52] <Ahmuck_> goood morning
[14:54] <Ahmuck_> the ability to customize menu's would be appreciated ... by building, room, user category
[14:55] <Ahmuck_> using groups with a user override should accomplish this
[14:57] <BenoitStandre> actually
[14:57] <Ahmuck_> this could apply to all situations, cutomize programs, etc.  a .group profile or a user that belongs to a specific group and then a .individual file that customized the way the menu was.  one could even have .individual in an application folder customizing that application
[14:57] <BenoitStandre> don't forget
[14:57] <BenoitStandre> that K12Linux does it
[14:57] <BenoitStandre> about a live LTSP CD
[14:58] <BenoitStandre> ahmuck : normally, this should already be possible using xdg menus standard
[14:59] <BenoitStandre> ahmuck_ but , there is no tool enabling this (except modifing files)
[15:04] <sbalneav> Ahmuck_: I beleive I helped LaserJock with a project like this.
[15:04] <sbalneav> it's mostly implemented.
[15:06] <BenoitStandre> I suppose session is over, since we heard laptop bag zippers
[15:09] <stgraber> Just spoke with collin, building with universe enabled is quite simple, we'll just need to poke him or someone else with access to the CD builder to change that and then we'll be able to mix main and universe
[15:26] <BenoitStandre> seems Gobby is back
[15:27] <highvoltage> stgraber: great.
[15:30] <alkisg> BenoitStandre: link, please?
[15:30] <bencrisford2> http://shop.canonical.com/index.php?cPath=14 -- out of all them, which should I get?
[15:31] <BenoitStandre> alkisg : sorry, was talking about gobby.ubuntu.com , but the meeting is over anyway :-(
[15:31] <alkisg> Ugh... thanks anyway.
[15:32] <pygi> highvoltage: why are you ignoring me on jabber?
[15:34] <highvoltage> pygi: no, I didn't see a message from you, my connection did drop recently though
[15:49] <highvoltage> stgraber: oh wow, did you look at th strategy doc recently?
[15:49] <highvoltage> stgraber: LaserJock did a lot of work on the rest of the document last night, we might actually get some sleep tonight
[15:50] <pygi> highvoltage: ...
[15:50] <pygi> sleep?!
[15:50] <pygi> what are you talking about?!
[15:57] <highvoltage> pygi: I still didn't get any jabber message from you, probably best to just talk on irc
[15:57] <pygi> highvoltage: ok
[15:57] <pygi> moment
[16:04] <LaserJock> can we get rid of the art team?
[16:04] <bencrisford1> lol show me some artwork?
[16:04] <pygi> LaserJock: of edubuntu team?
[16:04] <pygi> yes
[16:05] <LaserJock> we just have "Edubuntu's artwork is done through the Ubuntu Artwork team."
[16:05] <pygi> LaserJock: oh, sure
[16:06] <LaserJock> so maybe at least until we actually have an art team that's big enough to split we can drop it
[16:06] <pygi> LaserJock: exactly, that's the plan
[16:07] <LaserJock> ok, so the Development section needs to get hit hard
[16:07] <LaserJock> I didn't have much time last night for it :(
[16:09] <pygi> LaserJock: btw. thanks for approving me as member (again), but I think I'll drop the membership
[16:09] <LaserJock> why?
[16:10] <pygi> because I'm not sure I want to spend as much time as I did before again, when canonical could just decide to drop the brand at one moment, or hire somebody who will revert/change all that we'll do and stuff
[16:12] <LaserJock> Edubuntu Membership isn't an obligation to pour tons of time into
[16:12] <pygi> possibly, but I don't think that anything other then tons of time will work with so little resources
[16:14] <LaserJock> well, it's up to you of course, we just appreciate having you around
[16:18] <pygi> LaserJock: I mean, I *want* Edubuntu to succeed, that's why I've contributed to the sessions and that's why I've contributed before, but ... :-/
[16:22] <LaserJock> pygi: yeah, there are a lot of "but"s and "if"s right now
[16:25] <pygi> LaserJock: :-/
[16:30] <nubae> thats kinda the reason I'm wondering about membership myself... like what expectations are then had?
[16:31] <LaserJock> none essentially
[16:31] <pygi> nubae: its sustainable contribution in any form (that's the requirement for membership)
[16:31] <nubae> I mean... I currently spend a lot of time on openSUSE... will I have the time to put my energy and work into edubuntu...? on one hand yes, because since I am already doing it in open suse.... it gets more easily synchronistically done for edubuntu
[16:32] <nubae> but I am afraid of people maybe getting the idea I'm just in it for the membership title... and thats not it at all
[16:32] <nubae> but I think LaserJock gets that
[16:32] <LaserJock> well
[16:33] <nubae> what I mean is, I think u realise I'm pretty consistent with helping out
[16:33] <LaserJock> I'm interested in more correctly making the Launchpad team reflect what we have here on the ground
[16:33] <nubae> I do what I can
[16:33] <nubae> but I'd sure be more interested in the packaging/tech/distribution side now
[16:33] <nubae> since its kinda important and its where we seem to have few free hands
[16:33] <nubae> am I right?
[16:34] <nubae> in essence it might mean an hour or 2 with u training me how to package/distribute correctly under debian/ubuntu policy
[16:34] <LaserJock> right
[16:34] <nubae> but once I get it, it stays...
[16:35] <nubae> dotn need much for me to repeat the process afterwards
[16:35] <nubae> at least till now its been that way... I am assuming this won't have a massively obuse learning curve
[16:35] <bencrisford1> LaserJock: If you are gonna spend an hour or so with nubae teaching him some package stuff, ill join in too
[16:36] <bencrisford1> because i wanna get involved in all that
[16:36] <LaserJock> I think if Edubuntu gets a collaborative packaging team going it will be much easier for people
[16:36] <bencrisford1> yup
[16:36] <nubae> the best would be we try and screencast it somehow
[16:36] <bencrisford1> but i need to learn to package
[16:36] <bencrisford1> and motu mentoring is so ruddy hard to get
[16:36] <nubae> one of us can deepen/repeat the training session
[16:37] <LaserJock> learning to package can take some time, it's one of those things that you're always learning more about
[16:37] <nubae> so that is useful to others
[16:37] <nubae> yeah
[16:37] <LaserJock> I generally favor a "learn by doing" approach
[16:37] <pygi> I think the mentoring thing would be really beneficial to the edubuntu community
[16:37]  * alkisg also wants to join the screencast and suggests ekiga :P
[16:37] <nubae> would be nice for u finally not to be the only one packaging for edubuntu
[16:37] <LaserJock> as there's just no way to give you everything you may need to know in an hour or two
[16:37] <LaserJock> nubae: goodness yes!
[16:37] <nubae> so I'd like to take that responsibility a little at least off your shoulders
[16:38] <nubae> as a start...
[16:38] <LaserJock> sure, that would be appreciated
[16:38] <LaserJock> do you guys know how to use bzr?
[16:38] <bencrisford1> id love to package
[16:38] <bencrisford1> kinda
[16:38] <bencrisford1> i got the playbook
[16:38] <pygi> LaserJock: what kind of question is that? :p
[16:38] <pygi> we're just discussing the future of bzr :p
[16:38] <nubae> yeah bzr is easy
[16:38] <nubae> its just a subversioning tool like every other
[16:39] <nubae> so if u know svn, git, cvs, or whatever, u know the concept of bzr... the finer details are easy enough to learn from guides
[16:39] <LaserJock> right
[16:39] <nubae> I actually prefer git out of all of them
[16:39] <nubae> not quite sure why
[16:39] <bencrisford1> i like svn
[16:39] <LaserJock> just making sure, as some people are pretty anti-bzr
[16:39] <nubae> it just seems erally nice
[16:40] <nubae> git, I've been told, has the least amount of admin maintenance
[16:40] <nubae> though perhaps the highest learning curve to admin it
[16:40] <pygi> this is nor place nor time to fight vcs's
[16:40] <LaserJock> anyway, I plan on putting our packages in bzr in ~edubuntu-dev
[16:40] <bencrisford1> ok
[16:40] <nubae> cool
[16:40] <LaserJock> that way we can all hack on them
[16:40] <LaserJock> *and* we can use a team PPA for testing
[16:40] <bencrisford1> sounds good
[16:40] <nubae> yup, if need be we can always synch with another subversioning system
[16:41] <nubae> but thats really not needed
[16:41] <pygi> nubae: will you please stop masacring the vcs world?
[16:41] <LaserJock> so hack hack hack, test, PPA if needed, hack hack, upload
[16:41] <nubae> was thinking git cause sugar is all git
[16:41] <pygi> there is no "subversioning system"
[16:41] <nubae> :p
[16:41] <pygi> Bazaar is a distributed version control system
[16:41] <pygi> Subversion is a centralized version control system
[16:41] <pygi> git is a distributed version control system
[16:41] <pygi> and not a subversioning system :p
[16:41] <nubae> pygi: I am sure people get what I am talking about
[16:42]  * ogra doesnt :P
[16:42] <LaserJock> ogra!
[16:42] <nubae> the finer details are unimportant
[16:42] <pygi> ogra: oh the german!
[16:42] <bencrisford1> :P
[16:42] <LaserJock> ogra: I didn't see you there :-)
[16:42] <ogra> LaserJock, you are missed here
[16:42] <LaserJock> ogra: yeah, I sure miss being there :/
[16:42] <bencrisford1> ogra: Can you tell me im missed too?
[16:42] <ogra> i'm hiding in the moblin meeting
[16:42] <bencrisford1> just to make me feel better
[16:43]  * nubae pats bencrisford1 on the back
[16:43] <nubae> there there
[16:43] <ogra> bencrisford1, indeed everyone not here is missed :)
[16:43]  * bencrisford1 forces a smile
[16:43] <ogra> but LaserJock in particular
[16:44] <bencrisford1> LaserJock: how to i download the edubuntu bazaar branch?
[16:44] <alkisg> So, being in the topic, can we ask questions? If I want my package to provide an /etc/some-conf-file.conf, how should I do it, considering the user may change it and I may want to provide newer versions of it? Should I just rely on debconf notifying the user?
[16:44] <bencrisford1> bzr branch https://launchpad.net/~edubuntu-dev
[16:44] <nubae> bencrisford1: there is quite a nice little tutorial
[16:44] <nubae> let me see if I can find it
[16:44] <bencrisford1> i have a nice tutorial :P
[16:44] <bencrisford1> um just checking
[16:44] <bencrisford1> im*
[16:44] <LaserJock> bencrisford1: https://code.launchpad.net/~edubuntu-dev has the branches
[16:44] <nubae> http://doc.bazaar-vcs.org/latest/en/mini-tutorial/index.html
[16:45] <nubae> that be the one
[16:45] <nubae> bazaar in 5 minutes
[16:45] <bencrisford1> bzr branch https://code.launchpad.net/~edubuntu-dev -- there we go?
[16:45] <nubae> its more than 5 minutes of course, but its nicely written and quite full
[16:45] <bencrisford1> ive got the playbook
[16:45] <LaserJock> alkisg: I think you declare it to be a conffile in the packaging it and it handles that whole "do you want to install the maintainer's version" thing
[16:46] <LaserJock> bencrisford1: no, go to https://code.launchpad.net/~edubuntu-dev to find the branches
[16:46] <alkisg> LaserJock: thanks a lot, I'll google it for the details.
[16:46] <LaserJock> bencrisford1: then you can click on a particular branch and it will give you the bzr branch URL
[16:46] <bencrisford1> oh, ty
[16:47] <sbalneav> alkisg: What's the greek language code?
[16:47] <LaserJock> http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/multidistrotools/edubuntu.html is also important
[16:47] <alkisg> el_GR.utf8
[16:47] <LaserJock> it shows us the current state of versions between Debian and Ubuntu
[16:48] <LaserJock> the most important section is: Outdated in Karmic (Sid version > Karmic version), and Karmic has local changes
[16:48] <bencrisford1> Who wants to mentor me :D?
[16:48] <alkisg> Another question I have is: can the process from developing on a launchpad branch to redistributing via a PPA be automated? Are they somehow connected?
[16:48] <LaserJock> those are packages that have a newer version available from Debian, *but* which we have to manually merge
[16:48] <LaserJock> alkisg: not fully automated yet, but I think they'd like to do that at some point
[16:49] <LaserJock> eventually all of Ubuntu will be done that way
[16:49] <LaserJock> no more source packages
[16:49] <nubae> oh they dream of oBS :p
[16:49] <alkisg> LaserJock: so is there some semi-automation that I can use? or it's just manually for now?
[16:49] <LaserJock> a bit more than that
[16:49] <LaserJock> alkisg: it's manual but could be scripted
[16:49] <nubae> alkisg: I suggest u look at oBS
[16:49] <alkisg> OK, thanks again
[16:49] <nubae> its a gpl tool that can be used for much more than suse stuff
[16:50] <nubae> its an automated building tool
[16:50] <LaserJock> alkisg: it's pretty easy to do, use bzr-builddeb and then all you will need to do is dput the package
[16:50] <alkisg> nubae: I'd like to stick with launchpad for now... to also get to know about building packages manually
[16:50] <bencrisford1> no-one wants to give me packaging mentoring :(?
[16:50] <LaserJock> bencrisford1: I think that needs to be a group effort
[16:50] <nubae> oh... to do the magic, u must know the manual procedure
[16:50] <nubae> there is no automagic...
[16:50] <nubae> :-)
[16:51] <LaserJock> so we need to find things for people to package
[16:52] <LaserJock> and by package I mean "work on"
[16:52] <LaserJock> not necessarily make a new package from scratch
[16:52] <nubae> welp, there is all of sugar
[16:52] <nubae> many of the activities are very easy to package
[16:52]  * bencrisford1 has a suggestion LaserJock
[16:52] <LaserJock> yeah, Sugar is good
[16:53] <LaserJock> also gcompris and tuxtype currently need a merge
[16:53] <alkisg> A third question (and I think it's the last for today) is: how can I create a working tree if I have the .deb file? (or the PPA link)?
[16:53] <LaserJock> alkisg: what do you mean  by a working tree?
[16:53] <alkisg> E.g. suppose I want to fix something in ltsp and upload it to my PPA
[16:53] <LaserJock> bencrisford1: what?
[16:53] <bencrisford1> Any willing developers could find a fairly simple bug - offer mentorship - then we could use the LP mentoring system for that
[16:54] <alkisg> So I can download the .deb sources but I don't know what tools to use to easily repackage it after changing it
[16:54] <pygi> bencrisford1: forget LP mentoring system
[16:54] <pygi> its birocratic
[16:54] <bencrisford1> :/
[16:55] <LaserJock> alkisg: ok, so here's what I'd do
[16:55] <LaserJock> alkisg: install ubuntu-dev-tools
[16:56] <LaserJock> then get the source package you want to modify, you can click on a specific version on https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ltsp or apt-get source it if you're running that particular release
[16:57] <nubae> birocratic in that the pens decide who does what... :p
[16:57] <LaserJock> a source package is 3 files (.dsc, .diff.gz, and .orig.tar.gz) and you can get them all easily by using dget
[16:57] <LaserJock> dget <URL to .dsc file>
[16:57] <LaserJock> then you can unpack it with dpkg-source -x *.dsc
[16:57] <LaserJock> that gives you a working tree
[16:58] <LaserJock> you then go in and modify what you want
[16:58]  * bencrisford1 saves this chat
[16:58] <bencrisford1> cheers LaserJock
[16:58] <LaserJock> make sure to add a new changelog entry (run dch -i in the debian/ directory)
[16:58] <nubae> alkisg: for that I would really use oBS... if its just to rebuild something unofficial, whereas if its official, use buntu/debian tools
[16:58] <sbalneav> alkisg: bzr branch lp:~sbalneav/ltsp/alkisg-docs
[16:58]  * nubae stops plugging opensuse tools now....
[16:58] <alkisg> Heh too much info! Thanks all, LaserJock continue please...
[16:59] <LaserJock> then from the working tree run debuild -S to create your new source package
[16:59] <LaserJock> you can then cd ../ and see it (new .dsc and .diff.gz)
[16:59] <LaserJock> and that can be dput'ed to Launchpad
[16:59] <sbalneav> Initial upload.  I don't have any greek fonts installed here, so the compile doesn't work for me yet.  Once we get it working, it will be able to be looked at under yelp.
[16:59] <LaserJock> nubae: I don't think it'll make much difference if oBS is used or LP
[17:00] <LaserJock> he still needs to work on the packaging, which is the hard part
[17:00] <alkisg> sbalneav: thanks a lot, I'd like to start with it after a month, to be able to finish the 9.04 ltsp installation guide first... :)
[17:01] <sbalneav> alkisg: In fact, you can load it up under yelp right now: for me:  yelp file:///usr/legal/home/sbalneav/src/bzr/alkisg-docs/Ubuntu0810LTSP.xml
[17:01] <alkisg> LaserJock: thanks, so if I also wanted to create a bzr branch for it, I'd use bzr import (I don't know the syntax but I'll find it) and then bzr-builddeb?
[17:01] <LaserJock> alkisg: we actually already have bzr branch imports for all Ubuntu packages
[17:02] <LaserJock> http://package-import.ubuntu.com/
[17:02] <alkisg> Thanks man :)
[17:02] <LaserJock> I don't know the details on all the packages and if bzr-builddeb will "Just Work" in all those cases
[17:03] <alkisg> I think that was more than enough for a crash course :)
[17:03] <LaserJock> alkisg: for LTSP stgraber would be the guy to ask about building
[17:03] <LaserJock> alkisg: heh, but I could spend 3 more hours giving the basics :-)
[17:03] <LaserJock> but I have a meeting with my advisor so I better not do that
[17:04] <bencrisford1> LaserJock: from your advice, i put together a packaging .pdf I feel will be used for generations - http://bencrisford.exofire.net/how-to-package.pdf
[17:04] <alkisg> Yeah, I know from first hand that phd requires most of one's time... :(
[17:04] <LaserJock> lol
[17:04] <nubae> LaserJock: hows our phd coming anyway?
[17:05] <LaserJock> bencrisford1: that is a very short version. I once wrote an 80 page book on packaging
[17:05] <LaserJock> nubae: OK I guess
[17:05] <bencrisford1> lol
[17:05] <nubae> I suppose u are being told u spend too much time with us ubuntu freakz
[17:05] <LaserJock> something like that
[17:05] <LaserJock> bencrisford1: I have a printed copy from long ago even
[17:06] <bencrisford1> nice
[17:06] <LaserJock> bencrisford1: if you read https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide that was originally my work from 2005/2006
[17:06] <LaserJock> back in the day ....
[17:06] <bencrisford1> wow, i read that a while back
[17:07] <bencrisford1> still on my bookmarks i think
[17:08] <LaserJock> it was OK
[17:08] <LaserJock> but over the years I've come to believe that at least Debian-based packaging is better learned experientially with a team of people
[17:09] <bencrisford1> yeah
[17:09]  * bencrisford1 has already prepared my motu mentoring application
[17:09] <bencrisford1> hasnt sent it yet though
[17:09] <bencrisford1> havent*
[17:10] <LaserJock> it can be incredibly frustrating that in Debian there are at least 3 tools to do *every* task
[17:12] <alkisg> sbalneav: oops, I gave you a beta version, it's not the final :(
[17:12] <alkisg> sbalneav: what should I do for the images to show up?
[17:13] <sbalneav> Dunno, that's to be fixed :)
[17:14] <sbalneav> But, here would be my suggestion:
[17:15] <sbalneav> If you're going to work on a newer verion, I'd suggest doing it in docbook.  Simply because then it can be: 1) a yelp helpfile, and an installable package that shows up in the help centre, 2) a pdf 3) an html page, etc.
[17:15] <nubae> but a pain to edit....
[17:15] <sbalneav> Do you get helpcenter, printable, and web all in one shot
[17:16] <nubae> there really should be a decent docbook editting tool by now
[17:16] <LaserJock> emacs/vim/gedit/kate
[17:16] <alkisg> I've also been thinking about doing it in docbook. But the pdf looks better if I do it in .odt.
[17:17] <sbalneav> I'm old-school, so editing docbook source in vi is, for me, less frustrating than getting a gui tool to do what I want.
[17:17] <LaserJock> this is for LTSP and not Edubuntu?
[17:17] <alkisg> LaserJock: it has a section for edubuntu
[17:17] <LaserJock> sbalneav: you're just plain old :p
[17:17] <sbalneav> And grumpy!
[17:17] <alkisg> I also thought about doing it in a wiki, and I've put some information in the ubuntu wiki, but it was pretty specific (for greek schools) so I thought I shouldn't upload too much stuff
[17:17] <LaserJock> if you want it Edubuntu-themed there is a docbook stylesheet for Edubuntu
[17:18] <alkisg> Heh. There's one for Ubuntu as well?
[17:18] <sbalneav> alkisg: what you'll lose in editing nicities, and slightly better looking pdf's, you'll gain in translations, and ease of producing multi-formats.
[17:19] <bencrisford1> if you guys need a hand with docbook, i have quite a bit of experience
[17:19] <sbalneav> We *need* to get the edubuntu-handbook kickstarted.  the LTSP section is/can be pretty detailed, but what it's missing is a lot more of the "best practices on running a lab"
[17:20] <sbalneav> bencrisford1: good, you're drafted for the edubuntu-handbook
[17:20] <alkisg> What's the original edubuntu handbook format? docbook or wiki?
[17:20] <sbalneav> docbook
[17:21] <alkisg> OK, sounds fine to me. But I'd like to finish the things I've already started before commiting to that.
[17:21] <sbalneav> Thats fine.
[17:21] <alkisg> (i.e. the 9.04 installation guide and some packages/scripts in my team's ppa for easy installation)
[17:22] <sbalneav> I want to at least get the edubunu-handbook re-packaged for karmik
[17:22] <sbalneav> having it available on the yelp center was huge for 7.04
[17:23] <sbalneav> In upstream ltsp, I've got a reasonably up-to-date set of ltsp docs
[17:24] <sbalneav> The came out of a large amount of stuff that was in the edubuntu-handbook, which I did a ton of work on for 7.04
[17:24] <alkisg> Yes, you're doing a fine job there. (...but we should find a different formula for managing the lts.conf params :P)
[17:24] <LaserJock> it would actually probably be a good idea to replace the "About Edubuntu" menu entry in System with a handbook
[17:24] <sbalneav> LaserJock: yes.
[17:25] <nubae> yeah we need to do the reverse of what we did with ltsp upstream docos
[17:25] <sbalneav> Well, here's what I'd suggest:
[17:25] <LaserJock> could be "Edubuntu Help" or something
[17:25] <sbalneav> 2 packages
[17:25] <alkisg> The edubuntu hand book should contain *references* to the ltsp docs, not copy/pasted content
[17:26] <sbalneav> 1) the ltsp docs as 1 document, and
[17:26] <sbalneav> 2) the edubuntu-handbook, with cross-links into 1)
[17:26] <sbalneav> 1) gives the "how", 2) concentrates on the "why"
[17:26] <sbalneav> also, on documenting some of the apps
[17:26] <sbalneav> edu apps, sabayon, etc.
[17:27] <LaserJock> yeah, it would be nice to have more than LTSP in there
[17:27] <sbalneav> Exactly
[17:27] <nubae> well its only that way cause we ripped the other stuff out
[17:27] <LaserJock> well, it's always pretty much been heavy on LTSP
[17:27] <LaserJock> even when it was all together
[17:27] <sbalneav> that's why I suggest leaving the ltsp docs as their own doc package, and the edubuntu docs on the apps
[17:28] <BenoitStandre> just reading all of you while doing some other stuff : for documenting apps, I think what lacks the most is "what program do I use to do XYZ..."
[17:28] <sbalneav> BenoitStandre: You volunteering to write that? :)
[17:28] <nubae> thats a tricky one since one would ideally rely on the upstream docs of particular apps
[17:28] <BenoitStandre> I did write some of it
[17:28] <BenoitStandre> :-)
[17:28] <nubae> that really needs to be discussed... ie, how to do it
[17:28]  * sbalneav puts down BenoitStandre as abnother handbook-contributor
[17:28] <BenoitStandre> http://www.revolutionlinux.com/Top-10-Free-and-Open-Source,217
[17:29] <BenoitStandre> actually that's a handout I give when I present or meet educators
[17:29] <BenoitStandre> just something like : Task - Program Name - 3 lines on what does it do
[17:29] <bencrisford1> If help is needed with the edubuntu website I can do that too, im on the dev team for a few educational web apps my mate started
[17:30] <sbalneav> BenoitStandre: Can we include that info in the handbook?
[17:30] <sbalneav> With attribution of course?
[17:30] <BenoitStandre> the main problem I've found is that those kind of docs is often too tied to the version , so I'm trying to make it as version-free
[17:30] <BenoitStandre> as possible
[17:30] <BenoitStandre> of course
[17:31] <sbalneav> I'm happy to get stuff into the docbook format: if people can get me something, ANYTHING, I'll munge it into the handbook.
[17:32] <BenoitStandre> and count I'm willing to become a contributor on something in Edubuntu, I have a lot of opinions, but I want to be able to work on a section of stuff without committing to things I won't have time to do (as everyone else I suppose)
[17:32] <BenoitStandre> so that kind of part in the handbook (and also menus structures we were discussing this morning) could be something
[17:33] <sbalneav> LaserJock: where's the upstream edubuntu-handbook?  Or should I just create a new branch off of what I've got in my ppa? The old 7.04 docs
[17:33] <LaserJock> sbalneav: it's in the edubuntu doc branch of the doc team
[17:35] <LaserJock> bzr branch lp:~ubuntu-core-doc/ubuntu-doc/edubuntu-jaunty
[17:35] <LaserJock> though we need a karmic branch first
[17:36] <LaserJock> sbalneav: so branch from -jaunty to edubuntu-karmic and push it
[17:36] <LaserJock> I'm no longer in the doc team
[17:36] <LaserJock> and I need to get outta here
[17:36] <LaserJock> I'm getting sucked in again :-)
[17:37] <sbalneav> ok
[17:37] <sbalneav> Branching now
[18:15] <alkisg> Lns: ping?
[18:15] <Lns> alkisg: pong
[18:15] <alkisg> Hi man, I think you had some scripts to automate ltsp-update-image and other tasks, could I reuse some parts of the source?
[18:16] <Lns> of course! It's really nothing special.
[18:16] <Lns> alkisg: do you need me to post it?
[18:17] <alkisg> Yes please
[18:17] <alkisg> I think it'll save me some time... I'm trying to put a package for something similar in my PPA
[18:21] <Lns> alkisg: http://pastebin.ca/1436463
[18:22] <Lns> note that some of the functionality isn't there...this was really a custom script not totally portable
[18:24] <alkisg> Thanks Lns. Even the ideas for what scripts are needed will help! :)
[18:25] <Lns> alkisg: cool. What kind of package are you making? maybe we can collaborate.
[18:25] <alkisg> I named it "sch-scripts", and it'll contain whatever scripts I think the teachers will find useful
[18:26] <alkisg> So I guess it's a superset of what you already did. I'll make an initial version and I'll keep updating it constantly.
[18:26] <Lns> alkisg: are you planning on making it portable for different people to use as well?
[18:27] <alkisg> Not right now, but I'd like to do that for Karmic
[18:28] <alkisg> For now it'll be text based, for Karmic I'd like to use python/gtk (or qt)
[18:39]  * alkisg curses the new xorg or whatever it is that restarts his X occationally :(
[18:42] <Lns> yikes
[18:42] <Lns> did you install that new xcb with the java fix?
[18:42]  * ogra stops restarting alkisg's X remotely for now
[18:43] <alkisg> Lns, yup, from stgraber's ppa
[18:43] <Lns> lol ogra =)
[18:43] <Lns> alkisg: is that when it started restarting?
[18:43] <alkisg> Argh... and I was just ready to inverse ogra's ssh connection :P
[18:44] <alkisg> Lns, when I upgraded to 9.04 :)
[18:44] <Lns> alkisg: aaah.
[18:44] <alkisg> But it only does it every 10-15 days, so I didn't bother trying stuff to fix it...
[18:44] <Lns> ogra: have you taken a look at the new TCM initiative? :)
[18:45]  * alkisg has always wondered why TCM was abandoned :(
[18:45] <Lns> alkisg: because ogra can't be a hero for everything!
[18:45] <Lns> =) but it's not abandoned anymore...
[18:45] <alkisg> Sure, but why didn't someone pick it up yet?
[18:46]  * Lns has
[18:46] <alkisg> So you're really going to do this? Yey!
[18:46] <Lns> https://launchpad.net/tcm-ng
[18:46] <ogra> alkisg, i only abandoned it because i didnt have time for it
[18:47] <alkisg> Lns, why didn't you use just "tcm" and changed it to "tcm-ng"? Isn't that going to confuse people?
[18:47] <ogra> and because it did grow beyond the initial purpose .... i wanted a tiny app to manage your clients and it grew several heads
[18:47] <Lns> alkisg: my coder really wanted to keep the projects separate since this will be doing a lot of different things
[18:47] <Lns> we might be changing the name later on down the road, but for now this was the best
[18:48] <alkisg> Understood. So, what are the first specs? What will the first version include?
[18:49] <Lns> alkisg: we're generally cleaning up code, and solidifying its current functionality. Later on we're going to be melting it together with "LTSP Manager" (another one of ogra's old LTSP projects) and making it one app w/TCM.
[18:49] <alkisg> Good plan :)
[18:50] <Lns> We'll be adding a ton of functionality down the line, but for now we just want to make sure the base of it all is very solid and easily extended through plugins.
[18:50] <ogra> Lns, eek
[18:50] <ogra> i kept them distinct for a reason :)
[18:50] <Lns> ogra: what reason was that?
[18:50] <ogra> but do whatever you feel is right
[18:51] <ogra> they are two apps for two different purposes ... one only applies to the server settings and one applies to the running clients
[18:52] <Lns> ogra: yeah, I had gotten that idea too.. My idea is to make a central app to be able to do all of this stuff, as to not confuse ltsp admins with many different apps.. I hope we're not stepping on your toes at all with doing this
[18:53] <Lns> We're going to be separating it all into sections so hopefully everything will have its place
[18:53] <Lns> and won't be confused with "is this a client operation or a server operation?"
[18:53] <ogra> its hard to get right in a usable way
[18:53] <alkisg> Yeah, "administration control center" and "plugins" are the keywords here :)
[18:54] <Lns> ogra: agreed. I'd like to say I'm not too bad at designing UIs, though I don't have a lick of GTK experience..that's what my coder is for. I literally have sketches on paper of what i want it to look like, menus, etc.
[18:54] <Lns> there will be drop-down menus for server operations, client operations, etc.
[18:54] <ogra> as i said, feel free to do what you like
[18:55] <ogra> its all yours
[18:55] <Lns> ogra: ty.. i hope we'll make you proud =)
[18:55] <Lns> thanks =) I appreciate all of the hard work you put into it, it's really great stuff
[18:56] <Lns> with what exists already, and where i want it to be when it's semi-done, I'm really hoping this will be *the* LTSP administration interface that everyone wants to use for Ubuntu
[18:56] <Lns> and other distros, if ported
[19:13] <stgraber> highvoltage: ping
[19:14] <stgraber> highvoltage: I'm in the lobby and ready to go for some food
[19:16] <ogra> stgraber, dont let the soccer fans run you down
[19:17] <alkisg> Which package would be a good start (as a template) to make a new package that contains some simple scripts for classroom management?
[19:18] <alkisg> I mean all the debian/control, INSTALL, README etc stuff..
[19:18] <alkisg> Shell or at most python/gtk scripts
[19:29] <nubae> Did I miss anything?
[19:32] <ogra> life ? (because you spend your time in front of a computer)
[19:34]  * alkisg thinks ogra's behavior changed a lot when he got in the netbook business.. I should really try getting one for myself :P
[19:35] <ogra> heh
[19:35] <alkisg> So, what would be a good buy? (with ubuntu preinstalled?)
[19:35] <ogra> no, i'm at UDS ... not getting enough sleep having am aircondition cold with permanently running nose ... makes me slightly sarcastic :)
[19:35] <ogra> get a dell mini9
[19:36] <nubae> slightly
[19:36]  * alkisg googles...
[19:36] <ogra> s/am/an/
[19:36] <nubae> oh wait.... even that was sarcastic
[19:36] <ogra> heh
[19:36] <nubae> ;-)
[19:36] <nubae> arent there any arm based netbooks coming soon worth waiting for?
[19:36] <ogra> yeah, at some point ...
[19:37] <ogra> i have no precise dates for them though
[19:37] <ogra> but should be this year
[19:37] <nubae> ok, how does it compare with atom, I guess battery wise there will be some nice destinctions?
[19:38] <ogra> yeah, should be
[19:38] <ogra> though i havent had a chance to measure anything yet
[19:38] <ogra> my evaluation dev boards are all using a power supply and no battery
[19:38] <nubae> still the most annoying thing is battery times... when we can have a laptop that charges in an hour and has 10 hours battery life, I'll be happy
[19:38] <nubae> aha
[19:39] <ogra> but i'd go for a 8h guess for the first iteration of these devices
[19:39] <nubae> nice
[19:39] <nubae> otherwise?
[19:39] <ogra> which might go up to two days once they found the right combo of peripherials
[19:40] <nubae> I heard of this new linux distro that is like blazingly fast because everything is in ram... but takes 5 minutest to start up... u know what I'm talking about?
[19:40] <ogra> well, i havent seen atoms with more than 4h
[19:40] <ogra> no, havent hear of it
[19:41] <nubae> tin hat linux
[19:41] <nubae> security is the main concern for running everything in ram, but the speed benefits seemed very cool
[19:42] <ogra> 2.3G ?
[19:42] <ogra> thats insane
[19:42] <nubae> http://opensource.dyc.edu/tinhat-downloads
[19:42] <ogra> and you wont run it on an atom netbook
[19:42] <ogra> atom cant address above 2G
[19:42] <nubae> was just mentioned in linux magazine, sounded kinda interesting
[19:43] <ogra> rather something for a paranoid desktop user
[19:43] <nubae> heh maybe for banks, insurance companies
[19:44] <nubae> in the same magazine there is mention of the marvell plug based computer
[19:44] <ogra> the sheeva ?
[19:44] <ogra> sadly arm9
[19:44] <nubae> marvell.com/faetured/plugcomputing.jsp
[19:45] <ogra> yeah, we wont suport arm9 anymore in karmic
[19:45] <ogra> anyway, i need to find some dinner too ...
[19:45] <ogra> ciao
[19:46] <nubae> sounded like a pretty neat little ltsp connection
[19:46] <nubae> ok then, eat well
[19:46] <alkisg> adios ogra
[20:28] <sbalneav> Hmmm, I'm not getting what I think is expected behaviour on the sabayon builds
[20:28] <sbalneav> gconf mods are only getting written to $HOME/.gconf.xml.defaults
[20:28] <sbalneav> none to mandatory.
[20:31] <sbalneav> ahhhhhhh
[20:31] <sbalneav> /etc/gconf/2/paths
[20:31] <sbalneav> # default path for sabayon
[20:31] <sbalneav> include "$(HOME)/.gconf.path.defaults"
[20:32] <sbalneav> sabayon's writing to .gconf.xml.defaults
[20:37] <Lns> heh
[20:37] <Lns> that's secure ;)
[21:07] <Ahmuck> sbalneav: link to svn for sabayon?
[21:10] <sbalneav> builds are in my ppa
[21:11] <sbalneav> I don't have a bzr branch for it yet.
[21:11] <Ahmuck> link to your ppa
[21:11] <Ahmuck> bzr, ah
[21:11] <sbalneav> https://edge.launchpad.net/~sbalneav/+archive/ppa
[21:11] <Ahmuck> r the builds for 9.04 ?
[21:11] <sbalneav> yes
[21:12] <sbalneav> I'm trying to decide now which should be patched, gconf or sabayon
[21:13] <sbalneav> gconf's path specifically mentions including the path for sabayon
[21:13] <sbalneav> but sabayon uses .xml. instead of .path.
[21:16] <Ahmuck> i'd use .xml
[21:16] <Ahmuck> .path is odd
[21:16] <Ahmuck> .xml is standard
[21:16] <Ahmuck> though, i don't understand how .path is used here
[21:19]  * alkisg would go with .gconf.path.defaults, it's easier to patch sabayon than gconf, and it's about gconf key paths, not the format of the files inside this directory...
[21:20] <sbalneav> My thoughts exactly.  I have to convice someone ELSE to patch gconf.  I can patch sabayon
[21:21] <sbalneav> path of least resistance wins every time :)
[21:22] <stgraber> hello
[21:22] <bligneri> hello
[21:22] <stgraber> nubae, Lns: You both there ?
[21:23]  * Lns waves to stgraber 
[21:25] <highvoltage> hi!
[21:25] <Lns> hey highvoltage
[21:25] <Lns> wasn't ther ea meeting..?
[21:26] <BenoitStandre> hello all
[21:26] <stgraber> yeah, missing LaserJock, looking for him
[21:26]  * Lns checks the casino
[21:27] <highvoltage> Lns: yep yep, we need las	thoguugh :/
[21:27] <highvoltage> anyone has his number perhaps so that we can sms him?
[21:28] <Lns> nope
[21:39] <stgraber> btw, we're waiting for Jordan to arrive (LaserJock)
[21:43] <highvoltage> bummer, it doesn't seem like jordan is coming :/
[21:47] <Lns> :(
[21:47] <stgraber> we'll wait for 15min then we'll have to reschedule
[21:48] <stgraber> we can technically do it with only highvoltage and I but we'd prefer to have LaserJock too with all the changes happening in edubuntu at the moment
[21:51] <highvoltage> yeah I agree
[21:52] <pygi> what is happening toda?
[21:52] <pygi> today*
[21:54] <LaserJock> crap, did I miss the EC meeting?
[21:56] <stgraber> hey
[21:56] <stgraber> will be there in a sec
[21:56] <stgraber> doing some networking for highvoltage
[21:56] <LaserJock> bligneri: around?
[21:57] <stgraber> he's going to his hotel, should be there soon
[21:57] <LaserJock> funny little thing
[21:57] <LaserJock> I totally forgot about the meeting (working on dissertation)
[21:57] <stgraber> Lns, nubae: you guys still there ?
[21:58] <LaserJock> but I saw maco reply to a dent by bligneri about an Edubuntu meeting
[21:58] <LaserJock> ;-)
[21:58] <Lns> i'm here
[21:58] <highvoltage> yay
[22:00] <Lns> so.... =) are we all here?
[22:00] <LaserJock> where's nubae?
[22:00] <Lns> nubaeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
[22:02] <LaserJock> anybody else around who wishes to become an Edubuntu member?
[22:03] <BenoitStandre> I would, but I just started contributing :-D
[22:03] <BenoitStandre> Can we become "honoris causa" ;-)
[22:03] <highvoltage> I'm here I'm here
[22:04] <highvoltage> so what are we waiting for to hit the meeting start gong
[22:04] <sbalneav> gong
[22:04] <highvoltage> great, doing it here or in #ubuntu-meeting
[22:04] <highvoltage> you have to hit it in the channel you're doing it
[22:05] <pygi> LaserJock: I want to become a council member ::p
[22:05] <LaserJock> here is fine I think for now
[22:05]  * pygi hides
[22:05] <LaserJock> pygi: pffft, this morning you didn't even want to be a Member
[22:05] <pygi> its still the same actually :)
[22:05] <LaserJock> you're more than welcome to run for council member
[22:05] <pygi> nah, I'm not useful enough
[22:05] <LaserJock> but you gotta be an Edubuntu Member to run :-)
[22:06] <pygi> hahahahah
[22:06] <pygi> highvoltage: will you shoot him? :D
[22:06] <LaserJock> unfortunately it seems like being useful is not necessarily a requirement ;-)
[22:06] <pygi> oh cool then :p
[22:06]  * pygi hands in his candidature for council xD
[22:07] <highvoltage> right
[22:07] <highvoltage> agenda?
[22:07] <pygi> highvoltage: stgraber ?
[22:07] <stgraber> - Application for membership (Lns and nubae)
[22:08] <LaserJock> let's start with Lns then
[22:08] <highvoltage> hi Lns
[22:08] <sbalneav> Lns++
[22:08] <LaserJock> Lns: do you have a wiki page?
[22:09] <Lns> well hello =)
[22:09] <LaserJock> Lns: it would be good to give an intro and then a brief statement of why you should become an Edubuntu Member
[22:09] <Lns> Well I'm Jordan Erickson, I run a tech consulting business in California USA
[22:09] <bligneri> hello
[22:10] <Lns> I think I should be a member because I've been involved with deploying Edubuntu/UbuntuLTSP for about 3 years, and I am very interested in keeping the community progressing toward whatever goals we set
[22:10] <LaserJock> Lns: How long have you been contributing to Edubuntu?
[22:10] <Lns> I want to see Ubuntu/Edubuntu and F/OSS in all aspects of education so children understand what it means to share
[22:11] <Lns> For about 3 years. Depends on what you mean by contributing. =)
[22:11] <Lns> I've filled out bug reports, contributed on IRC/lists, etc.
[22:11] <Lns> IANAP, but I've also done documentation for LTSP
[22:12] <LaserJock> Lns: could you give some examples of contributions you're particularly proud of?
[22:12] <Lns> umm
[22:13] <Lns> not in a very specific sense, no - I feel that my greatest contributions have been here on IRC helping others with questions regarding edubuntu
[22:13] <Lns> coordinating with other people on direction
[22:13] <sbalneav> He certainly contributes several pages to the handbook
[22:13] <sbalneav> contributed
[22:13] <Lns> yeah
[22:13] <Lns> that too =)
[22:14] <stgraber> Have you contributed to Ubuntu outside of Edubuntu (just wondering) ?
[22:14] <highvoltage> what I appreciate about Lns is also his consistency, you can rely on him being around
[22:14] <Lns> stgraber: yeah, particularly in LTSP
[22:14] <Lns> I am a HUGE advocate for Linux in school, and I'm steering my whole company toward getting it in wherever it will fit.
[22:14] <LaserJock> Lns: can you give the URL for your LP page please?
[22:15] <Lns> https://launchpad.net/~lns
[22:16] <highvoltage> ah so that's what he looks like
[22:16] <Lns> that's the only pic of me not making a muppet face =p
[22:16] <LaserJock> lol
[22:17] <LaserJock> Lns: so do you have any specific plans of what you want to do as an Edubuntu memeber? just more of the same?
[22:17] <Lns> Depends on the goals we set as a community. :)
[22:17] <Lns> I plan on being involved with as much as possible
[22:18] <Lns> documentation, advocacy, bug reporting, ...
[22:18] <highvoltage> ok, I think we have enough information to put it to the vote?
[22:18] <LaserJock> I'm good
[22:19] <LaserJock> stgraber?
[22:19] <highvoltage> For Lns's commitment and passion and being consistent in the Edubuntu community for so long, I think he's deserved to be a member for a while now. I also think it's good that he has quite specific educational focus
[22:19] <highvoltage> +1
[22:19] <stgraber> He's doing LTSP doc for me, so +1 of course :)
[22:19] <stgraber> (I hate writting doc just in case you're wondering :))
[22:20] <LaserJock> +1 for a sustained and significant contribution to Edubuntu, in particular bug work and top-notch user support
[22:20] <LaserJock> Lns: welcome!
[22:20]  * Lns grins
[22:20] <Lns> thanks!
[22:20] <highvoltage> we're really happy to have you Lns
[22:21] <Lns> thanks highvoltage, i'm glad to be a part of it all
[22:21] <LaserJock> highvoltage: you wanna flip the switch in LP?
[22:21] <highvoltage> k
[22:22] <highvoltage> done
[22:22] <highvoltage> nubae's turn?
[22:22]  * Lns likes his shiny new badge
[22:23] <stgraber> nubae: ?
[22:25] <highvoltage> ok, let's continue until nubae pops up for time economy
[22:25] <pygi> :)
[22:25] <highvoltage> there's a long list of people who clicked the apply for membership button in LP
[22:26] <pygi> highvoltage: it always happens
[22:26] <highvoltage> yes, we just need to decline those who didn't follow the process
[22:27] <highvoltage> perhaps at least all the ones older than 2009 with a message such as "Sorry, but your proposed membership for edubuntu-members has expired, feel free to follow the membership process at any time." (or something like that)
[22:27] <highvoltage> stgraber suggests that the team is turned into an invite-only team
[22:28] <pygi> and what about my application? :p
[22:28] <highvoltage> stgraber: if you say it to me IRL they can't hear me :)
[22:28] <stgraber> heh
[22:28] <highvoltage> pygi: your application?
[22:28] <pygi> highvoltage: for EC :p
[22:29]  * pygi hides
[22:29] <highvoltage> riiiiight
[22:29] <highvoltage> I'm not sure LaserJock is with us anymore
[22:29] <LaserJock> oh, sorry
[22:30] <LaserJock> I think we could make it invitation only
[22:31] <LaserJock> and say in the team description that to apply you need to email edubuntu-devel or something
[22:32] <highvoltage> LaserJock: how do we set it, do we need an lp-admin?
[22:32] <LaserJock> the team owner does it
[22:32] <LaserJock> which would be CC :/
[22:32] <LaserJock> we need to get the EC to own ~edubuntu-members
[22:33] <highvoltage> yes. would the CC then own the EC?
[22:33] <stgraber> we should change that ... (well, ask someone to)
[22:33] <stgraber> I looked at how Kubuntu do that and they don't have the CC anywhere.
[22:33] <stgraber> yeah, we can let them own the EC if they want to
[22:34] <bencrisford1> have i missed some sort of meeting?
[22:34] <highvoltage> ok
[22:34] <LaserJock> highvoltage: I think the CC should own EC
[22:34] <Vantrax|Home> I agree, for what its worth
[22:34] <highvoltage> LaserJock: I like the idea that they own it too, it shows in LP who we are accountable to
[22:35] <Vantrax|Home> that became a huge issue for CC in the meeting yesterday
[22:35] <LaserJock> I just don't want single individuals owning any core teams
[22:35] <LaserJock> it's a bottleneck
[22:36] <highvoltage> 100% agreed, we don't want things to become a mess if someone has to leave unexpectantly
[22:37] <Lns> nubae's here!
[22:37] <bencrisford1> wooo!
[22:38]  * pygi thinks highvoltage is ignoring me :p
[22:38] <highvoltage> pygi: ok, so you seriously want to apply for EC?
[22:39] <bencrisford1> i know I have no authority whatsoever, but for what its worth pygi - id vote for you
[22:40] <pygi> highvoltage: ++ :p
[22:40] <highvoltage> bencrisford1: cheerleading is totally allowed
[22:40] <bencrisford1> yay :)
[22:40] <pygi> highvoltage: I think we need to talk about some things, but yes, I do want to apply
[22:40] <highvoltage> ok, shall we handle pygi's EC request after nubae's membership request? (stgraber/laserjock?)
[22:41] <LaserJock> highvoltage: I think we should do formal nominations/votes now that we have some members and a quorum of EC
[22:41] <highvoltage> ok
[22:42] <stgraber> k
[22:42] <LaserJock> adding stgraber was an emergency to get a quorum of EC
[22:42] <LaserJock> but we generally should use nominations/voting
[22:43] <bencrisfo> /me comforts stgraber
[22:43] <highvoltage> heh
[22:43] <highvoltage> nubae: are you around?
[22:44] <bencrisford1> Just to let you guys know, bencrisfo is me on my ipod, im kind of sleeping/on my pc at the same time
[22:44] <bencrisford1> cos im'a be up all night
[22:44] <highvoltage> any other items for this meeting?
[22:46] <bencrisford1> Yes
[22:46] <bencrisford1> actually no...
[22:49] <LaserJock> heh
[22:50] <bencrisford1> stgraber: Did you change your mind about the bribe :P?
[22:50] <stgraber> nah :)
[22:50] <bencrisford1> darn
[22:51] <bencrisford1> :(
[22:51] <bencrisford1> i have one testimonial looking very lonely, and it dont even have a +1 with it :P
[22:51] <bencrisford1> its not looking good :P
[22:51] <LaserJock> bencrisford1: when are you going to be up?
[22:51] <bencrisford1> next tuesday
[22:51] <bencrisford1> 1 week :S
[22:52] <highvoltage> just before we wrap up
[22:53] <highvoltage> the edubuntu strategy doc is very close to being completed
[22:53] <highvoltage> anyone is welcome to comment on it
[22:53] <bencrisford1> ill check it out ;)
[22:53] <highvoltage> although it's really not going to change much unless there is some extreme circumstance
[22:54] <highvoltage> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/StrategyDocument
[22:54] <highvoltage> we'll probably just do some cleanup still
[22:54] <LaserJock> well, the Development section is not close
[22:54] <LaserJock> everything else should be though
[22:55] <highvoltage> ok, I think we should briefly talk about it after this
[22:55] <bencrisford1> LaserJock: No marketing team :(?
[22:55] <LaserJock> no
[22:56] <LaserJock> if it becomes needed to formalize a marketing team we can add one
[22:56] <LaserJock> and perhaps we should make it clear in the doc
[22:56] <bencrisford1> alright
[22:56] <LaserJock> just because a formal team is not there doesn't mean people aren't welcome to work in that area
[22:56] <bencrisford1> although I am quite eager to make some posters and stuff, and if we could use a bazaar branch through lp
[22:56] <LaserJock> but I consider the *whole* edubuntu team as a part of the marketing team
[22:57] <bencrisford1> ok
[22:57] <bencrisford1> but a special bzr branch would be quite cool
[22:57] <LaserJock> sure
[22:57] <LaserJock> we could put that in ~edubuntu-members perhaps
[22:57] <bencrisford1> :( thats one of the problems i have with the strategy doc
[22:58] <bencrisford1> "The Edubuntu Developers are Edubuntu Members who desire to work on packaging and have shown that they are unlikely to cause problems with any of the Edubuntu packages." -- so non-members cant package :O?
[22:58] <LaserJock> no, not at all
[22:58] <LaserJock> they just don't have direct commit access
[22:58] <highvoltage> LaserJock, stgraber: can we adjourne?
[22:58] <stgraber> I think so
[22:59] <LaserJock> the beauty of bzr is that merges are easy
[22:59] <highvoltage> *bong*
[22:59] <LaserJock> non-members just need to request a merge when they're branch is ready
[22:59] <bencrisford1> i think the developer process needs to be more clear and structured
[22:59] <bencrisford1> maybe like the MOTU where you submit a few patches etc.  and you might become a motu
[23:00] <bencrisford1> we could do the same
[23:00] <bencrisford1> but developer status automatically givess membership ?
[23:00] <LaserJock> well, this was designed to be easier than MOTU
[23:00] <bencrisford1> but if we did it like that the developers could be members of the members team
[23:00] <bencrisford1> if you follow
[23:01] <LaserJock> well, either way
[23:01] <LaserJock> we don't necessarily need that, but yeah, that'd make sense to do
[23:01] <bencrisford1> I think its fine however, but whatever we are doing
[23:01] <bencrisford1> it isnt clear in the doc IMO
[23:02] <LaserJock> what part isn't clear?
[23:02] <LaserJock> highvoltage: you get dholbach's email? :-)
[23:03] <bencrisford1> well, i guess it is clear, but i did have to read it twice
[23:03] <bencrisford1> its just one of those sentances
[23:03] <bencrisford1> where you read it wrong first time around
[23:03] <LaserJock> ok, maybe we can rewrite that a bit to clarify
[23:03] <highvoltage> LaserJock: just saw it
[23:04] <LaserJock> highvoltage: will you or stgraber have time to reply? I'm a bit swamped
[23:05] <highvoltage> LaserJock: yes
[23:08] <LaserJock> I gotta run
[23:08] <LaserJock> cya later folks
[23:11] <bencrisford2> highvoltage, stgraber, pygi: Its 00:10 down in sunny barcelona right?
[23:12] <stgraber> yeah
[23:12] <bencrisford2> what time y'all gonna be turning in?
[23:14] <asanchez> Good night everybody
[23:14] <bencrisford2> C ya asanchez
[23:15] <bencrisford2> Stay a while :(?
[23:15] <asanchez> Hi bencrisford2
[23:15] <pygi> asanchez: :P
[23:15] <pygi> you just appeared to say good night? :D
[23:15] <asanchez> pygi, sorry
[23:15] <bencrisford2> lol, in barcelona its technically the morning though right?
[23:15] <bencrisford2> mornin asanchez ;0
[23:15] <bencrisford2> ;)*
[23:17] <bencrisford2> hmm, im gonna see how long i can stay awake without falling asleep at my keyboard
[23:17] <bencrisford2> no caffeine :P
[23:18] <bencrisford2> in fact i havent even had a coffee today D=
[23:21] <bencrisford2> What are your bets on how long i'll last?  Ive been up since 8:30am, no caffeine all day
[23:26] <stgraber> bah, 1 or 2am should still be quite easy :)
[23:27] <bencrisford2> lol, fancy a contest ?
[23:27] <bencrisford2> :D
[23:27] <pygi> bencrisford2: he's up every day until 2 or 3am
[23:27] <pygi> don't challenge him
[23:27] <bencrisford2> meh, i like a challenge
[23:27] <bencrisford2> :P
[23:28] <bencrisford2> stgraber: we'll adjust it so its fair over cross-timezones
[23:28] <bencrisford2> whaddya say?
[23:28] <bencrisford2> dont worry if you wanna get a good nights sleep cos of the UDS
[23:30] <stgraber> hehe, as long as I've something to do it's no problem :)
[23:30] <bencrisford2> :P
[23:30] <stgraber> currently it's basically reading and answering mails
[23:30] <bencrisford2> how do we adjust the time zones
[23:30] <bencrisford2> is it my time +1
[23:30] <bencrisford2> or yours -1
[23:30] <bencrisford2> ?
[23:31] <bencrisford2> in fact we dont need to
[23:32] <bencrisford2> and its impossible to do it fairly anyway
[23:33] <stgraber> yeah ...
[23:33]  * bencrisford2 gonna work on his history essay