[00:00] <Lns> bencrisford: neat :)
[00:01] <Lns> what do you want to use the poster for?
[00:01] <bencrisford> :), dunno
[00:01] <bencrisford> but i guess once we get a good stock of em
[00:01] <bencrisford> for different age groups
[00:01] <bencrisford> we can give them to local schools
[00:02] <bencrisford> leave them in libraries
[00:02] <bencrisford> give them to students
[00:02] <Lns> what do you mean by "learn to love" ?
[00:02] <Lns> how does edubuntu help you do that?
[00:06] <bencrisford> learn to love edubuntu
[00:06] <bencrisford> the little girl/boy drew a special pic of it
[00:06] <bencrisford> learn to love by using this lovable software sortathing
[00:06] <bencrisford> but im not sure what it means
[00:06] <bencrisford> it just sounds good :D
[00:09] <Lns> hehe =)
[00:10] <Lns> i like it
[00:14] <Lns> bencrisford: did you do anything else with that teacher tux
[00:14] <Lns> ?
[00:14] <bencrisford> not yet
[00:14] <bencrisford> but he is free from the blackboard now
[00:14] <bencrisford> and the paint stains
[00:14] <bencrisford> Lns: ^
[00:15] <Lns> cool =)
[00:15]  * bencrisford posted the poster on his blog
[00:16] <bencrisford> Lns: I'll see if we can get some opinions
[00:16] <bencrisford> and itll be a good test as to whether anyone ever reads my posts :P
[00:16] <Lns> bencrisford: what's your blog url?
[00:16] <bencrisford> http://bencrisford.tk/
[00:16] <Lns> thx
[00:16] <bencrisford> but thats a free redirection url
[00:16] <bencrisford> you can get the feed from http://bencrisford.exofire.net/blog/?feed=rss2
[00:24] <bencrisford> Lns: I'm gonna call it a night
[00:24] <Lns> alright bencrisford have a good one!
[00:25] <bencrisford> :)
[00:25] <bencrisford> c ya tommorrow
[01:24] <sbalneav> Wonder how I'd go about building just a metapackage for the ldap stuff
[01:25] <sbalneav> Looks like I can do pretty much everything with postinst.
[02:06] <Ahmuck> where do we report ltsp bugs?
[03:07] <sbalneav> Ahmuck: launchpad, as per usual
[10:41] <bencrisford1> mornin asanchez
[10:41] <asanchez> morning bencrisford1
[11:27] <highvoltage> bencrisford1: since you're so eager to read my blog, would you mind reading this part? http://jonathancarter.co.za/how-to-spell-jonathan/
[11:28] <bencrisford1> highvoltage: Eeek!  Sorry! :(
[11:31] <highvoltage> bencrisford1: hehe
[11:41] <bencrisford> highvoltage: "Johnathon (Comment not safe for a public page)" - is that the one i did :S?
[11:45] <bencrisford> and I didn't know you were in to politics
[11:45] <bencrisford> check out www.havingsomefun.net - its a politics forum i started with a mate
[15:05] <sbalneav> Morning all
[15:21] <bencrisford> mornin sbalneav
[15:25] <sbalneav> Morning bencrisford
[15:25] <bencrisford> :)
[15:25] <bencrisford> sbalneav: I don't like my nick :(, what shall i change it to?
[15:27] <sbalneav> What's wrong with your nick?
[15:27] <bencrisford> lol, a bit too long and boring i guess
[15:28] <sbalneav> be<tab>, not long to type :)
[15:28] <sbalneav> what irc client are you using?  Does it have tab completion?
[15:28] <bencrisford> pidgin doesnt
[15:28] <bencrisford> but its not bad
[15:28] <bencrisford> because i dont msg myself :P
[15:28] <sbalneav> eurgh, pidgin.
[15:29] <sbalneav> irssi for the win.
[15:29] <bencrisford> ill swap to xchat
[15:29] <bencrisford> but i dont like not seeing the user list
[15:29] <bencrisford> quassels pretty good, but it appears in your hostname
[15:29] <bencrisford> :/
[15:30] <Ben> Isn't this a bit cooler?
[15:31] <sbalneav> to see the users, all you have to do is just type "/who" in the channel
[15:31] <bencrisford> i like to see it all the time
[15:31] <sbalneav> Why? what's it buy you?
[15:31] <bencrisford> nothing
[15:31] <sbalneav> exactly
[15:31] <bencrisford> im just like that :P
[15:32] <sbalneav> save the screen real-estate for hacking :)
[15:32] <bencrisford> :P
[15:32] <sbalneav> one REALLY nice feature about irssi, being a text client, is that you can run it under screen.
[15:33] <sbalneav> I run my irssi on my home box, under screen
[15:33] <sbalneav> then, I can detach from screen with ctrl-a d
[15:33] <sbalneav> go to work (where I am now)
[15:33] <sbalneav> ssh into my home box
[15:33] <sbalneav> and do a screen -r (reattach)
[15:33] <sbalneav> very handy
[15:34] <bencrisford> nice
[15:34] <bencrisford> but what could a cool nick be?
[15:34] <bencrisford> for "ben"
[15:34] <sbalneav> there's absoluely nothing wrong with bencrisford
[15:34] <Ahmuck> beniford
[15:34] <sbalneav> Mine's just my userid
[15:34] <sbalneav> I've had this userid for 20+ years
[15:35] <bencrisford> im not all that bothered about my nick
[15:35] <bencrisford> but my email
[15:35] <bencrisford> and my lp id
[15:35] <alkisg> (05:28:32 μμ) bencrisford: pidgin doesnt => pidgin does have nick autocompletion
[15:36] <bencrisford> lol, what button?
[15:36] <sbalneav> It's the greek contingent! :) morning
[15:37] <alkisg> Heh! Morning all (well, at UTC+8 at least...)
[15:37] <alkisg> bencrisford: tab
[15:37] <bencrisford> dont work for me :/
[15:38] <sbalneav> so al<tab> doesn't complete to alkisg: ?
[15:38] <alkisg> Write "ben", press tab.  You'll see: bencrisford BenoitStandre (it proposes 2 names)
[15:38] <bencrisford> yeah :D
[15:38] <bencrisford> alkisg: w00t
[15:38] <alkisg> Write "benc" and tab => bencrisford
[15:38] <alkisg> ok
[15:38] <bencrisford> bencrisford:
[15:38] <bencrisford> :)
[15:38] <alkisg> You may even use it at the middle of a sentence
[15:39] <sbalneav> Ben's discovered the joys of tab autocompletion.
[15:39] <bencrisford> so a bencrisford isnt that bad!
[15:39] <sbalneav> Now all we need to do is get him comfortable at a shell prompt, and teach him VI, and we can *make* a hacker of him.
[15:39] <bencrisford> lol, i am comfortable with shell and vi :P
[15:40] <alkisg> Another really useful thing is history... e.g. you search for X_NUMLOCK and it shows you all the times someone said that...
[15:41]  * alkisg discovered that apt-get install vim-nox gives syntax highlighting in vi :)
[15:42] <bencrisford> yeah its awesome :D
[15:42]  * bencrisford cant get enough
[15:42] <bencrisford> i dont use kate no more
[15:42] <bencrisford> i only use vi
[15:42] <bencrisford> so much easier
[15:42] <bencrisford> saves me having several windows open
[15:42] <sbalneav> I use vim-full, and I have a ton of stuff enabled.
[15:43] <bencrisford> i dno what i got
[15:43] <bencrisford> but its got a helluva alo
[15:43] <bencrisford> alot*
[15:43]  * alkisg mostly uses gedit :-X I love how you can delete a letter with a single keystroke ;)
[15:43] <sbalneav> I've even got some macros that if I edit a file that begins with a shebang (#1) it auto chmod's the file 755
[15:44] <sbalneav> you can delete a letter with a single keystroke in vi too :)
[15:44] <bencrisford> yup
[15:44] <alkisg> Sure... if you happen to be in -i-don't-remember-the-name mode
[15:45] <alkisg> But if you're in edit mode, you're screwed
[15:45] <sbalneav> it's backspace in edit mode, and "x" in command mode. Get with the program already: makes perfect sense :)
[15:46] <sbalneav> And saving is ZZ
[15:46] <bencrisford> sbalneav: lol, what do i need to learn to be made a hacker then :P, because im fine with shell and vi
[15:46] <sbalneav> See how intuitive that is?
[15:47] <sbalneav> I mean, geez, who *DOESN'T* understand things like :1,$s/Where[ \t\n]+art thou/Where are you/g
[15:47] <alkisg> Well, vi saved me when I wanted to do some search/replace in binary files, so I can't hold these minor inconviniences like having to press 8 buttons to write 1 char against it... :)
[15:48] <sbalneav> When I started using vi, I thought the designers were on crack.  It's.... an acquired taste. :)
[15:49] <bencrisford> it sure is
[15:49] <bencrisford> but it saves heaps of time when you're using svn or bzr
[15:49] <bencrisford> especially if its a minor hack
[15:49] <bencrisford> just vi file.cpp
[15:49] <bencrisford> hackety hack hack
[15:49] <bencrisford> Esc> :wq
[15:49] <bencrisford> svn commit :D
[15:52] <sbalneav> bencrisford: We got lots of open bugs: and things like screem really need new upstream versions.  Dig in.  join the edubuntu bugsquad team
[15:54] <bencrisford> lol i couldnt package for crap sbalneav
[15:54] <sbalneav> neither can I
[15:55] <sbalneav> but I'm learning
[15:55] <sbalneav> and lots of the bugs could just use triaging.
[15:56] <bencrisford> i guess
[15:56] <bencrisford> but for the next week or so im focussing on ubuntu
[15:56] <bencrisford> so ive got as many contributions as possible for my membershiup meeting on tuesday :S
[16:01] <bencrisford> but i guess these packages are ubuntu
[16:01] <bencrisford> so ill take a look
[16:17] <bencrisford> https://edge.launchpad.net/~ben  NOOO!!!!  the username ~ben is taken :'(
[16:19] <bencrisford> how does b.e.n look sbalneav
[16:19] <bencrisford> ?
[16:21] <Ahmuck> brazen elevator nicknacks
[16:22] <bencrisford> maybe not then
[16:22] <bencrisford> ben.c?
[16:22] <bencrisford> bc?
[16:22] <Ahmuck> bouncy entropic nodes
[16:22] <Ahmuck> bencrisford: b.e.n looks great
[16:22] <bencrisford> seriously?
[16:23] <Ahmuck> yes, i liked it when i saw it
[16:23] <bencrisford> better than ben.c and bc?
[16:23] <Ahmuck> it looks every AI
[16:23] <bencrisford> for an email address though?
[16:23] <bencrisford> b.e.n@e-mail.com
[16:23] <bencrisford> bc@e-mail.com
[16:23] <bencrisford> ben.c@e-mail.com
[16:24] <bencrisford> which is best?
[16:25] <Ahmuck> b.e.n@t.com
[16:25] <Ahmuck> honestly, it's your choice
[16:26] <sbalneav> Ah, memories
[16:26] <sbalneav> http://mirror.facebook.net/cpan/scripts/infoserv/gopher/tools/gofinger.pl
[16:28] <bencrisford> :P nice
[16:28] <sbalneav> I got my first internet account in 1985
[16:29] <sbalneav> when I was in grade 11
[16:29] <Ahmuck> wow, your an old folger
[16:29] <sbalneav> I'm 40.  Soon to be 41
[16:29] <sbalneav> I'm an internet methusela
[16:30] <sbalneav> I posted to usenet before 1993, but atm, I can't find any older reference to my userid (sbalnev) than that.
[16:31] <sbalneav> after I graduated from the university, in 1990, the admin there let me keep my account for 4 years, since I had helped him admin while I was there.
[16:31] <sbalneav> I was still posting from good old silver.cc
[16:32] <nubae> vi or emacs... nano or gedit.... perl or php, ruby or python... the things wars are made of :-)
[16:32] <sbalneav> the account I was given on an old dec vax runinng ultrix (dec's version of unix) back in '85 was sbalneav, and I've had the same userid since.
[16:34] <bencrisford> nubae: sbalneav: Which out of these sounds best - b.e.n@e-mail.com, bc@e-mail.com, ben.c@e-mail.com
[16:34] <sbalneav> I still have the cd from my first linux install.  I bought the "LGX" distro from Yggdrasil.  It's dated "fall '93"
[16:34]  * Ahmuck was fingering uni's in 92
[16:34]  * Ahmuck recalls yggdrasil
[16:34]  * nubae was fingering other things back in 92
[16:34] <nubae> :p
[16:35] <sbalneav> bencrisford: what userid do you log into your computer with?
[16:35] <bencrisford> it logs in automatically
[16:35] <nubae> they weren't always in the computer lab
[16:35] <bencrisford> but it would be bem
[16:35] <bencrisford> ben*
[16:35] <Ahmuck> was made in reference to sbalneav link
[16:36] <sbalneav> bencrisford: I dunno.  Whatever you'd like.  If you ask me, I think you're spending too much time obsessing over it.  I spent less time deciding to buy my cottage :)
[16:36] <bencrisford> :P
[16:36] <sbalneav> pick one and be done.
[16:36] <bencrisford> well i would love ben
[16:36] <bencrisford> but its always taken
[16:38] <sbalneav> how about just crisford?
[16:39] <sbalneav> 8 characters, makes a good username
[16:39] <sbalneav> fast to type
[16:39] <bencrisford> hmm
[16:39] <nubae> well, I always thank god for the tab key
[16:39] <bencrisford> nah i dont like it much
[16:39] <bencrisford> nubae: me too
[16:40] <bencrisford> lol to type your name i just have to type nub :)
[16:41] <sbalneav> Well, whatever, then.  I'm off to do some ldap programming.  afk for a bit
[16:41] <bencrisford> k
[16:52] <Ahmuck> bcrisford
[16:54] <bencrisford> really?
[16:55] <bencrisford> Ahmuck: I quite like it i guess
[16:55] <bencrisford> i thought about it
[16:55] <Ahmuck> sure, or first initial, middle initial, last name
[16:55] <Ahmuck> but in the old unix world, it was normally first initial, last name
[16:55] <bencrisford> bmcrisford sounds a bit crap
[16:55] <Ahmuck> upt o eight char, but in todays world you normally see it more than 8
[16:56] <Ahmuck> it's just a nick :)
[16:56] <bencrisford> its important to me :)
[16:57] <bencrisford> i think i'll leave it
[21:57] <skipjack1> Hi
[21:58] <Ahmuck> i'm on 9.04 ubuntu ltsp.  what do i need to do to back up user directories?
[21:59] <sbalneav> Ahmuck: what do you mean?
[21:59] <sbalneav> You'll need something to back them up on
[21:59] <skipjack1> I want to copy my Personal Files (Windows Vista) ( Documents, PHP code files and some other text, xml, doc, excel and so on .. Files ) to my LTSP Server. I think I should setup before something else to get correct filenames and a correct charset, so that I can easly editing files under Linux (thinClient) and over Samba ( Windows XP, vista..) Some tips? What I should do before copy ( okay a Backup ;) )
[22:00] <Ahmuck> no.  i can leave the files intact, as it's on a raided drive and partitioned.  however, when i tried this once before, it failed.  users were not able to access their documents
[22:00] <sbalneav> skipjack1: the Ubuntu wiki has a samba page, it'd be a good place to start
[22:01] <skipjack1> ohh okay thanks ;))
[22:01] <sbalneav> Ahmuck: what did you use to try to do the backup?
[22:02] <sbalneav> Did you use a tape drive? DVD? rsync?
[22:03] <Ahmuck> i didn't use anything.  i booted to cdrom, and went from 8.04 to 8.10 before.  i left the /home partition as is.  however, after re-adding users, the users were unable to access documents.  i had to chown user:user on /home directories
[22:03] <sbalneav> well, sure
[22:03] <Ahmuck> this time i'd like to go from 9.04 to 8.10
[22:04] <sbalneav> unless you added them in exACTly the same order, they'd be different.
[22:04] <Ahmuck> is there a way to backup the user list and group list for a new install ?
[22:04] <sbalneav> Absolutely.
[22:04] <sbalneav> take a copy of your /etc directory
[22:05] <Ahmuck> cp /etc/. /home/superuser
[22:05] <Ahmuck> and then back ?
[22:05] <sbalneav> then, after you upgrade, you can restore the /etc/passwd, /etc/shadow, and /etc/group files
[22:05] <Ahmuck> ok
[22:05] <sbalneav> You are backing up you /home files externally somewhere, right?
[22:07] <sbalneav> Ahmuck: no, you never restore the WHOLE etc directory, as that could cause you problems.
[22:07] <sbalneav> but you want to KEEP it just in case you missed a config file mod you made.
[22:07] <sbalneav> but you HAVE to backup your /home files to a different machine.
[22:08] <sbalneav> there's absolutely no iron-clad guarentee that /home won't get formatted on a re-install or upgrade.
[22:08] <sbalneav> you could type something wrong
[22:08] <sbalneav> there could be a bug in the installer
[22:08] <sbalneav> cosmic rays
[22:09] <sbalneav> kernel bug causes raid array to reformat
[22:09] <Ahmuck> actually i'm not backing them up at all.  i'm leaving them intact on the drive in their own /home partition
[22:09] <Ahmuck> yes, well, i'm a bit risky at times
[22:10] <sbalneav> I'm going to be blunt
[22:10] <sbalneav> if you upgrade a box without backing all files on it up
[22:10] <sbalneav> you're being incompetant.
[22:11] <sbalneav> If you made a mistake, and /home was erased, how much grief would that cause?
[22:11] <sbalneav> back it up.
[22:18] <Ahmuck> yes, i agree.  in the last the last 18 years i did make that mistake once.  i was eating supper and not paying attention.
[22:19] <sbalneav> So if you've been a sysadmin for 18 years, you should KNOW you need to back up.
[22:19] <sbalneav> Dude, don't cause yourself more grief than necessary.
[22:20] <Ahmuck> i'm being lazy and impatient.  i agree
[22:20] <sbalneav> Up to you
[22:21] <sbalneav> if you restore the shadow file, passwords come back as well.
[22:21] <sbalneav> make SURE permissions and ownership is correct when restoring.
[22:21] <sbalneav> or a locked-out machine will result.
[22:23] <sbalneav> Well, time for me to head home, pack up the fambly, and head to the cottage for the weekend.
[22:24] <bencrisford> ok
[22:24] <sbalneav> in 4 hours I'll be sitting on my deck with my wife and a beer
[22:24] <sbalneav> and a burger
[22:24] <bencrisford> awww
[22:24] <bencrisford> nice
[22:24] <sbalneav> on my 40 acres
[22:24] <bencrisford> i have a 1000 word essay to write by monday :'(
[22:24] <bencrisford> :P save me a beer
[22:25] <sbalneav> or 16.19 hectares
[22:26] <sbalneav> or 250905600 square inches
[22:26] <Ahmuck> permissions and ownership?
[22:26] <sbalneav> Ahmuck: yeah
[22:26] <sbalneav> owned by root, perms 644 or whatever
[22:27] <Ahmuck> i'd like to stay on 9.04, but it's wrought with problems.  i moved to 9.04 to fix my nic issue.  which appears to have done so
[22:27] <skipjack1> hmm windows uses cp1251 charset?
[22:27] <Ahmuck> k
[22:27] <skipjack1> or. windows-1251 ?
[22:27] <sbalneav> sbalneav@feniks:~$ ls -la /etc/passwd /etc/group /etc/shadow
[22:27] <sbalneav> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root    948 2009-03-17 13:05 /etc/group
[22:27] <sbalneav> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root   1.7K 2009-03-13 16:03 /etc/passwd
[22:27] <sbalneav> -rw-r----- 1 root shadow 1023 2009-03-13 16:03 /etc/shadow
[22:28] <sbalneav> passwd & group are root:root with 644, shadow's root:shadow mode 640
[22:29] <sbalneav> anyway, I'm off
[22:29] <sbalneav> see you all monday.
[22:29] <Ahmuck> all my experience is on windows ... so i'm coming at the linux thing sorta new