| thadp | hey is edubuntu just ubuntu with more packages or is it a stripped down version of ubuntu with more educational apps? | 02:40 |
|---|---|---|
| thadp | nevermind found answer of FAQ | 02:43 |
| loic-m | Does anybody know why we add X-Ubuntu-Gettext-Domain=tuxtype to package tuxtype but not for tuxmath? Both are in main. | 09:07 |
| bencrisford | stgraber: ping | 09:19 |
| bencrisford | anyone know what the bzr branch is for edubuntu-docs? | 10:10 |
| bencrisford | im fixing a bug | 10:10 |
| bencrisford1 | highvoltage: Ping | 10:52 |
| === nubae1 is now known as Nubae | ||
| highvoltage | bencrisford1: pong | 11:01 |
| bencrisford | highvoltage: I fixed a bug in a documentation package | 11:03 |
| bencrisford | edubuntu | 11:03 |
| bencrisford | saw you on the contributor list | 11:04 |
| bencrisford | what do i do with my nice diff now? | 11:04 |
| bencrisford | in fact, how do i make a debdiff :S :'( | 11:09 |
| bencrisford1 | I changed the wording of a paragraph in School Advocacy (edubuntu-docs) to fix a bug and now the motu recommend I upload it to my PPA and make a merge proposal | 12:48 |
| bencrisford1 | but I don't know which files to upload | 12:49 |
| bencrisford1 | just the .diff? the .dsc? .tar.gz? | 12:49 |
| bencrisford1 | or shall I just upload the diff as a patch to the bug? | 12:49 |
| bencrisford1 | =S | 12:49 |
| bencrisford1 | highvoltage, stgraber: ? | 12:49 |
| === nubae1 is now known as Nubae | ||
| === nubae1 is now known as Nubae1 | ||
| === Nubae1 is now known as Nubae | ||
| === nubae1 is now known as Nubae | ||
| LaserJock | Nubae: around? | 18:31 |
| bencrisford | Hey LaserJock | 18:35 |
| * bencrisford fixed his first bug | 18:35 | |
| bencrisford | and it was in edubuntu | 18:35 |
| bencrisford | :) | 18:35 |
| LaserJock | bencrisford: I saw you filed a bug on edubuntu-docs | 18:36 |
| bencrisford | i didnt file it | 18:36 |
| bencrisford | i uploaded a patch :) | 18:36 |
| LaserJock | oh, I see | 18:36 |
| bencrisford | i subscribed you because i thought you were the maintainer of the branch | 18:36 |
| LaserJock | well, I don't think it needs any coordination with the doc team or translators | 18:36 |
| LaserJock | but thanks for the fix | 18:36 |
| bencrisford | :), it was really good to practice packaging | 18:37 |
| bencrisford | cos it was just as simple as the example on the HowToPatch | 18:38 |
| bencrisford | LaserJock: I noticed on the documentation team for edubuntu, the owner of the team - will something - i cant find him anywhere | 18:41 |
| bencrisford | its like hes disappeared | 18:41 |
| LaserJock | yes | 18:41 |
| LaserJock | he worked for Canonical at one point | 18:41 |
| bencrisford | perhaps the EC should restart the team? | 18:41 |
| LaserJock | but left over a year ago or so | 18:41 |
| bencrisford | oh | 18:41 |
| bencrisford | thats not good | 18:41 |
| LaserJock | !gcompris | 18:44 |
| ubottu | Sorry, I don't know anything about gcompris | 18:44 |
| LaserJock | !info gcompris | 18:44 |
| ubottu | gcompris (source: gcompris): Educational games for small children. In component main, is optional. Version 8.4.4-1.1ubuntu4 (jaunty), package size 457 kB, installed size 1568 kB | 18:44 |
| LaserJock | bencrisford: so I see you had some fun with #ubuntu-ops the other day :-) | 18:54 |
| asanchez | Hi everybody | 19:11 |
| bencrisford1 | "bencrisford: so I see you had some fun with #ubuntu-ops the other day :-)" | 19:25 |
| bencrisford1 | LaserJock: Err, yeah :/ :P | 19:25 |
| bencrisford1 | LaserJock: Sorry about that btw ;) | 19:34 |
| === hibana_ is now known as hibana | ||
| LaserJock | bencrisford1: np, I didn't even know about their policy myself and I've been around for 4 years | 19:47 |
| bencrisford1 | ok :) | 19:49 |
| LaserJock | bencrisford1: they told me to file bugs if I want more bot features | 19:49 |
| bencrisford1 | ah ok | 19:49 |
| bencrisford1 | How long do ubuntu membership meetings take these days? | 19:49 |
| LaserJock | oh gosh, I have no idea | 19:49 |
| LaserJock | I haven't been to one in years | 19:50 |
| bencrisford1 | stgraber: ping | 19:50 |
| bencrisford1 | ok | 19:50 |
| bencrisford1 | well, its just im 6th for tuesday | 19:50 |
| bencrisford1 | and i can only stay an hour :S | 19:50 |
| LaserJock | bencrisford1: usually if you say up front that you have a limited time they'll try to make sure they get to you by then | 19:50 |
| bencrisford1 | Ok, ill make sure i let them know | 19:51 |
| bencrisford1 | thanks ;) | 19:51 |
| bencrisford1 | LaserJock: A core-edubuntu-doc team might be useful. The team could have commit access, so it would be easier to fix bugs | 19:52 |
| LaserJock | bencrisford1: well, I'm glad you got to do some packaging with that doc bug, I'm not going to be able to upload it | 19:52 |
| bencrisford1 | Ill talk to mdke :) | 19:52 |
| LaserJock | bencrisford1: we don't actually ship the Advocacy Doc and we're not going to do an SRU just for that | 19:52 |
| bencrisford1 | ok | 19:53 |
| LaserJock | bencrisford1: *but*, it really should go into the bzr branch | 19:53 |
| bencrisford1 | well im glad i got to do it, and im glad ive shown the world that bencrisford *can* package :D! | 19:53 |
| LaserJock | unfortunately I've removed myself from ~ubuntu-core-doc so I don't have commit access to my own branches :-) | 19:53 |
| Nubae | LaserJock: hi | 19:53 |
| Nubae | wasss up? | 19:53 |
| bencrisford1 | LaserJock: If you had a word with the doc peoples they'd give it back | 19:54 |
| LaserJock | Nubae: I wondered how big your Live Sugar disk is | 19:54 |
| Nubae | 400m | 19:54 |
| LaserJock | bencrisford1: well, I don't really want it back :-) | 19:54 |
| Nubae | but we packaged pretty much everything | 19:54 |
| bencrisford1 | :P fair enough LaserJock | 19:54 |
| LaserJock | Nubae: no gnome? just sugar? | 19:54 |
| Nubae | so all activities, all of sugar | 19:55 |
| Nubae | a lot of gnome too, since sugar relies on its backend | 19:55 |
| LaserJock | do you use GDM? | 19:55 |
| Nubae | evince, gstreamer, gdk | 19:55 |
| LaserJock | or does it just boot straight into Sugar? | 19:55 |
| Nubae | no gdm no | 19:55 |
| Nubae | startx straight into matchbox | 19:55 |
| Nubae | starting with 0.86 though, sugar moves to metacity | 19:56 |
| * jussi01 waves to LaserJock | 19:56 | |
| LaserJock | hi jussi01 | 19:56 |
| Nubae | anyway, we've got it all working very nicely now... only activity doesnt work properly is Read | 19:56 |
| Nubae | strangely it works on the full -edu dvd, but not on the minimal sugar live cd | 19:56 |
| Nubae | I'm missing something somewhere, but not sure what | 19:57 |
| * jussi01 sadly missed the meeting the other day, are there logs/summary around? | 19:57 | |
| LaserJock | Nubae: did you have to patch any of the non-Sugar stuff? like abiword or anything | 19:57 |
| Nubae | still its not bad... Sugar is about 100 packages, and its being nicely maintained | 19:57 |
| bencrisford1 | jussi01: Should be on the mailing list ;) | 19:57 |
| Nubae | yeah, we patched a couple of things | 19:57 |
| Nubae | but it didnt requrie much to get it all to work | 19:57 |
| Nubae | its mostly out there already | 19:57 |
| bencrisford1 | jussi01: If you aren't a subscriber ill find the post in the archive for you ? | 19:58 |
| bencrisford1 | :) | 19:58 |
| jussi01 | please | 19:58 |
| Nubae | patched sugar to work with small screens by setting it to 72% of its original size if res =< 600 height | 19:58 |
| LaserJock | Nubae: so there's roughly 100 packages for Sugar? and we've got what, like maybe 20? | 19:58 |
| Nubae | heh, I think we might have less than that, and there's probably like 150 when u count dependencies and activities | 19:59 |
| bencrisford1 | jussi01: What meeting would that be? The council meeting or the one a week or so ago? | 19:59 |
| Nubae | I packaged each activity as its own package | 19:59 |
| Nubae | so activities alone there are 60 | 19:59 |
| LaserJock | hmm | 19:59 |
| Nubae | then there are some meta packages that include a lot of stuff | 19:59 |
| LaserJock | do you think those will be grouped together at some point? | 19:59 |
| Nubae | like glucose (sugar foundation) and sucrose | 19:59 |
| LaserJock | I would think most people would want to have the full sets | 19:59 |
| LaserJock | yeah | 19:59 |
| Nubae | we had to do patches for xulrunner | 20:00 |
| Nubae | for gstreamer | 20:00 |
| Nubae | for xypcom | 20:00 |
| Nubae | for evince, abiword, python bindings | 20:00 |
| LaserJock | so you have your own packages for those in the Sugar repo? | 20:00 |
| Nubae | when I think of it, its a lot of work | 20:00 |
| Nubae | yep | 20:00 |
| bencrisford1 | https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/edubuntu-devel/2009-May/002898.html - jussi01: thats the meeting minutes for the one the friday before last | 20:01 |
| Nubae | You can take a look at the X11: Sugar repo | 20:01 |
| Nubae | that should contain a lot of stuff | 20:01 |
| bencrisford1 | https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/edubuntu-devel/2009-May/002903.html - jussi01: thats the council meeting last week :) | 20:01 |
| Nubae | and the .kiwi file describes the packages used to build the iso | 20:01 |
| Nubae | let me see if I can give u an overview | 20:01 |
| LaserJock | sbalneav: around? | 20:01 |
| bencrisford1 | jussi01: they're the only ones i can find in the archive | 20:01 |
| Nubae | anyway, we are pretty much done now, so if/when u like I can start with buntu | 20:02 |
| LaserJock | Nubae: a first step could be to have oBS spit out source packages and just upload those to a PPA | 20:02 |
| LaserJock | Nubae: just to see how it works out on an Ubuntu system | 20:02 |
| LaserJock | Nubae: we can then refine them if needed and work on getting non-Sugar patches (abiword, xypcom, etc.) into Ubuntu proper | 20:03 |
| Nubae | yeah thats where most of the work is going to go I believe | 20:03 |
| Nubae | but... openSUSE is a geat model | 20:04 |
| LaserJock | if oBS does a good job of spitting out source packages we could automate it | 20:04 |
| Nubae | pretty much everything that could be done, has been done there | 20:04 |
| Nubae | ok | 20:04 |
| LaserJock | but if it's going to take tweaking a lot we'll need to fork it I guess | 20:04 |
| Nubae | http://en.opensuse.org/Sugar | 20:04 |
| Nubae | thats what we got | 20:04 |
| Nubae | forking is going to be required I think, but come newer releases u can always join again | 20:05 |
| Nubae | the debian maintainer Jonas is taking things much more seriously now | 20:05 |
| Nubae | mostly because he sees whats been done with Mandriva and openSUSE, both distros didnt even have sugar a couple months ago | 20:05 |
| bencrisford1 | "drop by the IRC Freenode #opensuse-edu channel and talk to Cyberorg or Nubae. " -- Nubae's famous :) :P | 20:06 |
| LaserJock | righ | 20:06 |
| LaserJock | Nubae: that's one of the nice things about FLOSS, sometimes people just need a kick in the butt from a "competitor" to get them going | 20:06 |
| LaserJock | Debian (and hence most things Debian-based) tend to be not-so-quick with these kinds of things | 20:07 |
| Nubae | hehe, yeah strangely that worked very well with Jonas | 20:07 |
| LaserJock | but usually Debian is very good technically and very thorough | 20:07 |
| Nubae | in the beginning he was like, nah, forget it, dont feel like packaging 0.84, not gonna | 20:07 |
| Nubae | then around him stuff started moving, without him | 20:08 |
| Nubae | and he quickly jumped the train | 20:08 |
| Nubae | the sad thing is, in the process we lost the uuntu sugar team | 20:08 |
| Nubae | *ubuntu | 20:08 |
| LaserJock | well, hopefully if things can get back on track people will re-join | 20:09 |
| LaserJock | but yeah, there's always these silly political things that happen | 20:09 |
| Nubae | we'll see, I think it needs someone thats gonna be realtively permenant | 20:09 |
| Nubae | and aploticial | 20:09 |
| Nubae | thats what really put me off debian... the politics... otherwise it would be my distro of choice | 20:10 |
| Nubae | fortunately, the negative parts of debian policy are left at the ubuntu door, and good parts taken | 20:10 |
| LaserJock | luckily the groups I work with in Debian are pretty good that way | 20:10 |
| Nubae | so we get a relatively forward thinking, yet still solid distro | 20:10 |
| LaserJock | yeah, there's a place for both | 20:11 |
| Nubae | openSUSE is just too wild in that sense | 20:11 |
| LaserJock | politics isn't all bad in a way | 20:11 |
| LaserJock | Debian has been a great place for thrashing out important things like "what is free software?", etc. | 20:11 |
| Nubae | well, it has a place... but not in my world.. I rather spend my time working on actually getting the job done | 20:11 |
| LaserJock | but for those of use that just want to get something done it's nice to have a place for it | 20:12 |
| Nubae | don't be distracted by shiny objects... working code first! :-) | 20:12 |
| Nubae | there is this new distro called tin hat linux... everything launches from ram.... so its blazingly fast... takes 5 minutes to start up, but after that its like the fastest distro u ever saw | 20:14 |
| LaserJock | heh | 20:14 |
| LaserJock | how much RAM do you need? | 20:14 |
| Nubae | 2 gigs | 20:14 |
| LaserJock | not bad | 20:15 |
| Nubae | but its been done for security reasons | 20:15 |
| Nubae | so people cant run off with sensitive stuff | 20:15 |
| Nubae | the speed is just an added benefit | 20:15 |
| LaserJock | right | 20:15 |
| bencrisford1 | im gonna try and rescue my old laptop by installing xubuntu on it | 20:18 |
| LaserJock | bencrisford1: what are the specs? | 20:21 |
| bencrisford1 | dunno LaserJock | 20:32 |
| bencrisford1 | 256MB ram | 20:32 |
| bencrisford1 | 20GB hdd | 20:32 |
| LaserJock | you might want something even lighter with 256 MB | 20:33 |
| jussi01 | !fluxbuntu | 20:34 |
| ubottu | fluxbuntu is a LPAE-standard compliant, Ubuntu-based derivative that maintains the goal of running on a wide range of mobile devices and computers (low-end & high-end). It is lightweight, swift and efficient. | Support Channel: #fluxbuntu on freenode | Homepage: http://fluxbuntu.org/ | 20:34 |
| jussi01 | maybe? | 20:34 |
| bencrisford1 | well ubuntu just about starts on it | 20:34 |
| bencrisford1 | 6.10 | 20:34 |
| bencrisford1 | but x doesnt always work | 20:34 |
| bencrisford1 | i think xubuntu *should* work | 20:34 |
| bencrisford1 | if it doesnt ill try fluxbuntu, thanks jussi01 ;) :) | 20:34 |
| LaserJock | I'd go with crunchbang over fluxbuntu I think | 20:35 |
| LaserJock | but that's maybe because I don't particularly like fluxbox | 20:35 |
| jussi01 | theres also lubuntu, but Ive not tried that | 20:35 |
| jussi01 | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lubuntu | 20:35 |
| bencrisford1 | oh i read about that today actually | 20:35 |
| bencrisford1 | :) | 20:35 |
| bencrisford1 | well the xubuntu install is going a helluvalot better than the ubuntu one went | 20:36 |
| * bencrisford1 takes that back... | 20:42 | |
| LaserJock | are you installing via live CDs? | 20:42 |
| bencrisford1 | yep | 20:42 |
| LaserJock | that's probably not going to work very well | 20:42 |
| bencrisford1 | :'(, i just want an ubuntu that works for it :P | 20:43 |
| LaserJock | you want to use the Alternate CDs for installing | 20:43 |
| LaserJock | LiveCDs take lots and lots of RAM | 20:43 |
| LaserJock | I think Ubuntu's LiveCD needs ~ 384MB or so | 20:43 |
| bencrisford1 | lol i wish you'd told me that after i spent an hour downloading it :P | 20:43 |
| bencrisford1 | before* | 20:43 |
| LaserJock | sorry, I just assumed | 20:44 |
| LaserJock | I rarely use the Desktop CDs | 20:44 |
| bencrisford1 | lol, its ok :), no need to be sorry :P | 20:44 |
| bencrisford1 | im glad i have a xubuntu cd anyway | 20:44 |
| Nubae | actually the specs make it a great thin client | 20:56 |
| bencrisford1 | Well i just spoke to the #lubuntu peoples :) | 20:58 |
| bencrisford1 | they say itll be better when its complete | 20:58 |
| bencrisford1 | so ill give em a hand with development i guess :) | 20:58 |
| Nubae | either that or you use it to test edubuntu as a thin client :p | 21:02 |
| bencrisford | If you guys were on the membership board, how many testimonials would it take on my profile for me to be considered would you say? | 21:07 |
| bencrisford | LaserJock: Nubae: jussi01: ? | 21:09 |
| LaserJock | hmm | 21:09 |
| jussi01 | depends on the testimonials, and content of what you have done. | 21:09 |
| LaserJock | yeah | 21:09 |
| bencrisford | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BenCrisford - LaserJock, jussi01 | 21:10 |
| LaserJock | bencrisford: btw, mdke just made a edubuntu-karmic doc branch | 21:10 |
| LaserJock | bencrisford: so if you make your changes for the Advocacy doc there, and request a merge then you can mark that bug as fixed | 21:11 |
| === hibana_ is now known as hibana | ||
| bencrisford | LaserJock: I was planning on uploading my patch to my PPA and them requesting a merge | 21:11 |
| bencrisford | but i couldnt work out what to upload :( | 21:12 |
| LaserJock | bencrisford: no PPA needed | 21:12 |
| bencrisford | oh ? | 21:12 |
| LaserJock | bencrisford: the docs are done in bzr | 21:12 |
| bencrisford | yeah, but i wont have commit access | 21:12 |
| LaserJock | the .debs are totally different in a sense | 21:12 |
| bencrisford | the .diff was a bzr diff | 21:12 |
| bencrisford | i got the bzr branch and then changed it and did a bzr diff to get the .diff | 21:12 |
| LaserJock | ok | 21:12 |
| LaserJock | so make sure to do it on the new karmic branch | 21:13 |
| LaserJock | and there is a specific syntax for bug closings | 21:13 |
| bencrisford | so where do i upload the files, and what files to i upload? =S | 21:14 |
| LaserJock | so in the changelog write what you changed and then do: Closes LP: bug #210771 | 21:14 |
| ubottu | Launchpad bug 210771 in edubuntu-docs "School advocacy wrongly speaks about Scribus being Illustrator-like" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/210771 | 21:14 |
| LaserJock | so email the .diff to the doc list | 21:14 |
| LaserJock | asking them to apply it to edubuntu-karmic | 21:14 |
| bencrisford | Ah ok | 21:15 |
| LaserJock | bencrisford: does that make sense? | 21:15 |
| bencrisford | yeah :) | 21:15 |
| bencrisford | thanks | 21:15 |
| bencrisford | LaserJock: edubuntu-docs_9.04.1ubuntu2.diff - an appropriate filename for the diff? | 21:22 |
| LaserJock | well | 21:22 |
| LaserJock | that's more like a debdiff | 21:22 |
| LaserJock | you're just making a change, not an upload | 21:23 |
| LaserJock | so I'd maybe name it something that describes the change | 21:23 |
| bencrisford | well, thats what was on the packaging tutorial :P | 21:23 |
| bencrisford | what do i call it? | 21:23 |
| LaserJock | well, but you're not packaging | 21:23 |
| bencrisford | :( | 21:23 |
| LaserJock | you're more like making an upstream change | 21:23 |
| nubae | god, right click and get terminal option is such a stupid thing, but its so incredibly highly useful for me | 21:23 |
| nubae | in Fedora to open the terminal u have to go in the systems menu... its like totally hidden away... almost as bad as windows | 21:24 |
| nubae | ubuntu is ok, but openSUSE makes it the most logical... right click on the desktop, get option for terminal.... | 21:24 |
| LaserJock | yeah, that would be nice | 21:25 |
| bencrisford | i have a popup terminal thats on my awn | 21:25 |
| bencrisford | its just like a little bubble coming off my awn when i click it | 21:26 |
| nubae | right but I mean as a distro default | 21:26 |
| bencrisford | yeah i know | 21:26 |
| LaserJock | bencrisford: let me pastebin what I think your diff should look like | 21:26 |
| bencrisford | ok ty | 21:26 |
| bencrisford | nubae: You tried dos emulator? | 21:27 |
| bencrisford | i can imagine windows veterans loving it | 21:27 |
| nubae | dos emulator, in linux? | 21:27 |
| bencrisford | yeah | 21:27 |
| bencrisford | its like a command prompt | 21:27 |
| nubae | well its useful to play some of those old adventure games | 21:27 |
| bencrisford | and you can manipulate your ~ through it too | 21:27 |
| bencrisford | i forot all my dos though :/ | 21:29 |
| nubae | dos is mostly useless | 21:29 |
| bencrisford | yeah | 21:29 |
| bencrisford | but its quite cool | 21:29 |
| bencrisford | having the emulator | 21:29 |
| bencrisford | it would be useful for windows veterans turned linux | 21:29 |
| bencrisford | LaserJock: Is the one I uploaded to the bug not correct :/? | 21:30 |
| LaserJock | it's ok | 21:30 |
| LaserJock | I mean, technically it's fine | 21:30 |
| LaserJock | it's just there's more to it in this case | 21:31 |
| LaserJock | stuff that you wouldn't necessarily know | 21:31 |
| bencrisford | ok | 21:32 |
| LaserJock | http://paste.ubuntu.com/184540/ | 21:34 |
| LaserJock | bencrisford: ^^ | 21:34 |
| bencrisford | ty | 21:34 |
| bencrisford | ill check it out | 21:34 |
| bencrisford | LaserJock: I didn't go too far off track with my changelog as far as i can see :) | 21:39 |
| bencrisford | mdke suggested I add the other suggestinos b the reporter | 21:39 |
| LaserJock | nope, not at all | 21:40 |
| LaserJock | yeah | 21:40 |
| LaserJock | I just saw his email | 21:40 |
| bencrisford | oh :) | 21:40 |
| bencrisford | was it to the doc list? | 21:40 |
| nubae | so LaserJock, when do I get considered for membership again? | 21:40 |
| nubae | btw, something like this is very relevant short term for edubuntu packages... so we can at least show the public that things are moving ahead: http://en.opensuse.org/Education/Applications/Desktop | 21:41 |
| LaserJock | bencrisford: no, the comment on the bug report | 21:41 |
| bencrisford | oh | 21:41 |
| bencrisford | yeah | 21:41 |
| nubae | nicely split into subject areas too | 21:41 |
| LaserJock | nubae: yes, very nice indeed! | 21:42 |
| nubae | including nice little icons for DE (desktop environment) | 21:42 |
| nubae | good thing about opensuse wiki system is how easy it is to edit | 21:42 |
| LaserJock | what I'd like to have is a place for everybody to contribute to something like that | 21:42 |
| nubae | u should check that out some time | 21:42 |
| nubae | right... it should be as easy as possible for people to add/rate.... Moodle would be one such way | 21:43 |
| LaserJock | yeah, novell has probably *the* best docs and doc systems around | 21:43 |
| nubae | but even that is too much work... it needs to be practically getting very little info, but allowing almost immediate contribution | 21:43 |
| LaserJock | I don't find Moodle very easy | 21:43 |
| LaserJock | I'd much rather just have a wiki page | 21:43 |
| nubae | yeah its not unfortunately | 21:43 |
| nubae | powerful, but steep learning curve | 21:43 |
| nubae | for Sugar, they've taken out about 80% of its options | 21:44 |
| nubae | yeah for this agreed, wiki page... but just overall, we should have as few and as simple tools as possible | 21:44 |
| LaserJock | yep | 21:44 |
| nubae | But moodle comes to mind becuase if properly setup its a one stop shop that is very inviting | 21:44 |
| LaserJock | yeah, it's just not trivial for us to set up | 21:45 |
| nubae | anyway, take a look at that wiki page, and we can probably rip most of it | 21:45 |
| LaserJock | although with the Learning Project setting up an instance maybe there will be more moodle around Ubuntu | 21:45 |
| nubae | well, otherwise we'll loose out to suse... where they set up Moodle for me about an hour after I suggested it | 21:46 |
| nubae | am now populating it... so they've got their heads in the right place... once its done, I'll point u to it, so u can take a look | 21:46 |
| LaserJock | well, I think openSUSE must not be quite the target that Ubuntu is | 21:46 |
| LaserJock | for a long time we had a no-PHP policy | 21:47 |
| LaserJock | and that's been slowly weakening | 21:47 |
| LaserJock | but we still get hacked | 21:47 |
| nubae | btw, u remember I did that desktop background with the penguins learning that polar bears are not food, but rather they are food to polar bears? | 21:47 |
| LaserJock | oh yeah, I ran across that on my laptop just yesterday I think | 21:47 |
| nubae | u still wanna use that for a release? | 21:47 |
| nubae | its quite a funny one | 21:47 |
| nubae | I ask because otherwise I'll give it to the openSUSE community, although I'd rather see it running on edubuntu | 21:48 |
| LaserJock | yeah, we should do something with it | 21:48 |
| LaserJock | well, can't both use it? | 21:48 |
| nubae | I can jaz it up somewhat | 21:48 |
| nubae | well, its more inline with ubuntu colours, and I was thinking about edubuntu when I created it, so default it will be edubuntu... but sure, people can install on whatever | 21:49 |
| nubae | u have any suggestions for it? ideas? | 21:49 |
| nubae | should I make a theme to go with it? splash, bootup? | 21:49 |
| nubae | icon set? | 21:49 |
| bencrisford | LaserJock: What should I call the .diff file? | 21:49 |
| LaserJock | well, we need all of those | 21:49 |
| nubae | the cool thing is I have one of those wacom cintiq tablets | 21:50 |
| LaserJock | bencrisford: advocacy_bug210771.diff | 21:50 |
| nubae | so its quite easy and lots of fun to create this stuff | 21:50 |
| bencrisford | nubae: I'd quite like to see that background, have a link? | 21:50 |
| bencrisford | LaserJock: ty :) | 21:50 |
| nubae | so tell me in order of importance whats needed? | 21:50 |
| LaserJock | icons are tough to get a full set | 21:50 |
| nubae | bencrisford: let me check | 21:50 |
| nubae | LaserJock: I know... but we can start via priorities | 21:50 |
| LaserJock | wallpaper + gdm is most important I think | 21:50 |
| bencrisford | I can help with GDM | 21:50 |
| bencrisford | ive got a bit of experience | 21:51 |
| nubae | ah yes... login... ok, will work on that next | 21:51 |
| LaserJock | then gnome splash, gtk/metacity/compiz theme | 21:51 |
| bencrisford | we could get an existing one | 21:51 |
| nubae | bencrisford: oh ok.. perhaps u can port the wallpaper to gdm somehow | 21:51 |
| nubae | LaserJock: u have a link so he can see it? | 21:51 |
| LaserJock | one sec | 21:51 |
| bencrisford | if we got an existing ubuntu GDM, and plugged the edubuntu artwork | 21:51 |
| bencrisford | would be easier :) | 21:51 |
| bencrisford | just need to change the .desktop | 21:52 |
| bencrisford | of the existing theme | 21:52 |
| nubae | yeah, the colour set is pretty much inline with ubuntu already... the wallpaper is made to evoke an emotional response of laughter, which I think it does quite well | 21:52 |
| bencrisford | aww i wanna see it :D | 21:52 |
| nubae | I wonder whether we can make mouse pointer set with a similar response | 21:53 |
| nubae | so like the same teacher penguin pointing or something | 21:53 |
| nubae | and instead of an X, u get a polar bear eating a penguin | 21:53 |
| bencrisford | :P | 21:53 |
| nubae | and instead of a tick mark, u get a penguin eating a tasty fish | 21:53 |
| bencrisford | LaserJock: So I send the .diff in an email to the ubuntu-doc@lists.ubuntu.com | 21:54 |
| nubae | it would make people laugh for sure | 21:54 |
| bencrisford | but they would need to be big | 21:54 |
| bencrisford | bulky | 21:54 |
| bencrisford | so people could see whats in them | 21:54 |
| nubae | yeah true... still a penguin pointing is possible | 21:54 |
| nubae | just the penguins arm | 21:54 |
| bencrisford | yeah | 21:54 |
| LaserJock | bencrisford: actually, since mdke already commented on it, just attach it to the bug report | 21:54 |
| bencrisford | ok :) | 21:54 |
| LaserJock | hmmpf, now I can't find the wallpaper | 21:55 |
| LaserJock | oh, I think it was in my email | 21:57 |
| * LaserJock chuckles | 21:58 | |
| nubae | yeah need to upload it some place... but forgot my flickr user and pass | 21:58 |
| nubae | we could do a set of funny educational ones like that | 21:59 |
| nubae | one where learning math is important or there be dire consequences ahead for the penguin | 21:59 |
| LaserJock | http://laserjock.us/files/edubuntu/penguin-edubuntu.png | 21:59 |
| nubae | like 20 penguins + one seal, not so bad... 20 seals and one penguin not so good | 21:59 |
| nubae | would just require switching the blackboard picture to make some more funny ones | 22:00 |
| LaserJock | given that we're not stretched for space I think having some sets like that would be great | 22:00 |
| nubae | maybe one can be a windows logo with an X, a penguin with a tick | 22:00 |
| nubae | but we make the penguin a female ;-) | 22:01 |
| nubae | that would have some internal humour to it | 22:01 |
| LaserJock | nubae: I'd work with the Ubuntu Artwork team maybe a bit to get their input, etc. | 22:01 |
| nubae | well, to be honest I think thats too much input, I was hoping just to throw some ideas around here | 22:02 |
| nubae | and we can come up with something, then maybe after the work is done, pass it by the artwork team | 22:02 |
| LaserJock | they're going to know more about doing the themes, etc. though | 22:02 |
| nubae | but otherwise no work is gonna be done | 22:02 |
| LaserJock | sure | 22:02 |
| nubae | u know how it is | 22:02 |
| LaserJock | yeah | 22:02 |
| nubae | well the idea here is that it be an educational theme | 22:03 |
| nubae | have u seen the opensuse-edu themes? | 22:03 |
| LaserJock | don't go to them with "what do we do?" but I mean like having them do a review of it to see if they have any suggestions on improvement | 22:03 |
| LaserJock | yeah, it looks pretty nice | 22:03 |
| nubae | http://en.opensuse.org/Education/Live/Screenshots | 22:04 |
| nubae | ah yeah will do that for sure | 22:04 |
| nubae | in terms of, if I was to tackle icons... which are the important ones... whats on the desktop to begin with, and I guess file manipulation/navigation? | 22:05 |
| LaserJock | yeah | 22:05 |
| Svenstaro | Is UDS over now? | 22:05 |
| LaserJock | yep | 22:05 |
| nubae | and do we stick to traditional ideas for themes, what age target group? | 22:06 |
| LaserJock | nubae: what you might do is do a review of icons to pick out ones that are particularly un-educational | 22:06 |
| Svenstaro | No update on mailing list yet :/ Want to be updated | 22:06 |
| LaserJock | Svenstaro: update of what? | 22:06 |
| nubae | ah right... good diea | 22:06 |
| nubae | idea | 22:06 |
| LaserJock | nubae: some are pretty ok, but others would be good to replace | 22:06 |
| Svenstaro | LaserJock, update on the official status of Eduubntu and UDS updates about Edubuntu | 22:06 |
| Svenstaro | I really want to know where we stand. | 22:06 |
| LaserJock | nubae: what I'd ideally like to see is an artwork package for each of -preschool, -primary, -secondary, -tertiary | 22:07 |
| nubae | well if we think about the general idea being school books, pencils, crayons, etc... I'm sure with that in mind we can come up with something | 22:07 |
| nubae | oh ok, makes sense... so maybe lets tackle that first | 22:07 |
| LaserJock | yep | 22:07 |
| nubae | wallpapers for 3 areas | 22:07 |
| LaserJock | Svenstaro: well, there have been some updates throughout UDS | 22:07 |
| nubae | so getting funnier/whittier the older u go | 22:07 |
| LaserJock | Svenstaro: right now people are still traveling | 22:08 |
| nubae | preschool has to be something quite universal, almost a foto I geuss | 22:08 |
| nubae | guess | 22:08 |
| LaserJock | Svenstaro: but is there something in particular you want? | 22:08 |
| nubae | I think the existing one fits well with primary | 22:08 |
| nubae | secondary need something a bit 'kewler' | 22:08 |
| LaserJock | nubae: actually I would probably reverse it | 22:08 |
| nubae | yeah see what u mean... tertiary is probably the most generic/boring | 22:09 |
| Svenstaro | LaserJock, did Cannocials official stance change or is it still "Do whatever you want."? | 22:09 |
| LaserJock | the problem we often had in the past is that secondary and tertiary educators feel the wallpaper is to juvenile | 22:09 |
| LaserJock | they want a more professional look | 22:09 |
| nubae | yeah, which is why we need the funny/whit aspect to it | 22:09 |
| nubae | but thats just one side... I understand what u mean | 22:10 |
| Svenstaro | Why wouldn't you want a multi-purpose skin/wallpaper anyway? | 22:10 |
| LaserJock | Svenstaro: I've not heard anything from Canonical, I wouldn't expect to hear anything for a while | 22:10 |
| nubae | well, thats highly individual I think | 22:10 |
| LaserJock | Svenstaro: but it isn't terribly relevant for us now I don't think | 22:10 |
| nubae | uni person does not want the same wallpaper as a preschooler ;-) | 22:10 |
| LaserJock | right | 22:10 |
| Svenstaro | LaserJock, so we are free to do whatever we'll come up with and use Canonical's existing resources? | 22:11 |
| nubae | I wish ubuntu had a mascot though... like opensuse has the gekko | 22:11 |
| nubae | we can do so much with that | 22:11 |
| LaserJock | so giving people some age-appropriate choices would be awesome, IMO | 22:11 |
| Svenstaro | Well make an Edubuntu mascot. | 22:11 |
| nubae | ok, so well I'm gonna try making 3 more wallpapers for tonight... I have an idea for preschoolers that might work... based on creepie crawlies | 22:11 |
| LaserJock | Svenstaro: well, we've pretty much always been free to do whatever we come up with, within certain parameters | 22:11 |
| Svenstaro | Ok, what should I do now? | 22:12 |
| Svenstaro | Get to know caspar? | 22:12 |
| LaserJock | you can if you want | 22:12 |
| nubae | Svenstaro: yeah indeed | 22:12 |
| nubae | study the methodoloy of creating live cds/usb sticks | 22:12 |
| LaserJock | I think we're going to stick with an Addon for Karmic | 22:12 |
| nubae | and how to seperate components | 22:12 |
| nubae | right | 22:12 |
| Svenstaro | LaserJock, aw come on. | 22:12 |
| nubae | we shold move with the LTSes | 22:12 |
| Svenstaro | Karmic+1 is LTS? | 22:13 |
| LaserJock | I think so | 22:13 |
| LaserJock | it's every 2 years | 22:13 |
| Svenstaro | That's in 11 months then? | 22:13 |
| LaserJock | no | 22:13 |
| LaserJock | in 1 year | 22:13 |
| LaserJock | bah | 22:13 |
| LaserJock | sorry | 22:13 |
| LaserJock | yeah | 22:13 |
| Svenstaro | That's in 11 months then. | 22:14 |
| Svenstaro | Okay, let's so we're ready for next bunch of Linux conventions, that'd be great. | 22:14 |
| Svenstaro | LinuxTag, Froscon, Chemnitz Linux days. | 22:14 |
| LaserJock | so I think we could maybe have some test disks for karmic that'd be great | 22:14 |
| LaserJock | *if we could | 22:15 |
| Svenstaro | To be honest, I don't think it would matter too much which release we'll spin it off from for now. | 22:15 |
| Svenstaro | I will go with +1 for now, though, for compatibility. | 22:15 |
| LaserJock | well | 22:15 |
| Svenstaro | Is alpha 1 out yet, btw? | 22:15 |
| LaserJock | I mean we have to test this stuff out *before* we get to the release | 22:15 |
| Svenstaro | Right, I just finished RC2 of my current distro, so I have plenty of time for Edubuntu now. I'll get started right now. | 22:16 |
| LaserJock | I'm guessing it's going to take quite some time to get everything worked out | 22:16 |
| LaserJock | both technically and in trying to get the hosting put together | 22:16 |
| Svenstaro | Are we going to use all the pre-existing facilities? | 22:17 |
| LaserJock | yes | 22:17 |
| LaserJock | my rough idea would be to have the addon as official .iso for Karmic | 22:18 |
| LaserJock | but have unofficial .isos available somewhere | 22:18 |
| LaserJock | and for karmic replace the addon .iso with the full distro .iso/image | 22:19 |
| LaserJock | bah | 22:19 |
| LaserJock | Karmic+1 | 22:19 |
| LaserJock | I don't know if that's exactly what highvoltage and stgraber discussed or not | 22:20 |
| Svenstaro | Do I get super-special-awesome rights on the Edubuntu Launchpad release team? | 22:20 |
| LaserJock | there is no such team | 22:20 |
| Svenstaro | Is there ANY active official team? | 22:20 |
| LaserJock | for what? | 22:20 |
| LaserJock | Edubuntu? | 22:20 |
| Svenstaro | Yes. | 22:21 |
| LaserJock | there's ~edubuntu-members, ~edubuntu-council, ~edubuntu-bugs, and ~edubuntu-dev right now that are active | 22:21 |
| LaserJock | but in Ubuntu the release team is essentially centralized | 22:22 |
| LaserJock | slangasek is *the* Ubuntu Release Manager, who oversees Ubuntu, Kubuntu, Xubuntu, Edubuntu, Ubuntu Studio, Netbook Remix, and Mythbuntu I believe | 22:23 |
| LaserJock | essentially anything that's on cdimage.ubuntu.com or releases.ubuntu.com | 22:23 |
| Svenstaro | So if I were to build the isos, I'd report to him? | 22:23 |
| LaserJock | well no | 22:23 |
| LaserJock | he builds the isos essentially | 22:24 |
| LaserJock | we can provide patches to the build tools and we determine the package contents of the .isos | 22:25 |
| LaserJock | but the builds themselves, etc. are done by the Ubuntu release team | 22:25 |
| Svenstaro | Duh :/ Makes it somewhat harder I guess. | 22:25 |
| LaserJock | in some ways | 22:25 |
| LaserJock | on the other hand, we don't have to worry about building things | 22:26 |
| Svenstaro | Fair enough. | 22:26 |
| Svenstaro | I wouldn't mind uploading 700mb now and then. Oh by the way, did we decide the release *needs* to fit onto a CD? | 22:27 |
| LaserJock | it can't fit on a CD | 22:27 |
| LaserJock | for a full distro | 22:27 |
| LaserJock | I think 1GB is bare minimum | 22:27 |
| Svenstaro | With LZMA it *could* but it would be somewhat slow for older system anyway. | 22:28 |
| LaserJock | even with LZMA I'm not sure | 22:28 |
| Svenstaro | But anyway, I like the idea of having some freedom in regards to space. | 22:28 |
| LaserJock | but I'm just not sure how it's going to all work | 22:29 |
| Svenstaro | In which regard? | 22:29 |
| LaserJock | well, I'm not sure that the release team is going to like use duplicating 700MB worth of stuff | 22:30 |
| nubae | well they wont, but others are already doing that | 22:30 |
| LaserJock | I mean, there were definitely reasons we went to an addon | 22:30 |
| nubae | ubuntu-studio comes to mind | 22:30 |
| LaserJock | true | 22:30 |
| LaserJock | so I think the key is to make the duplication worth it | 22:30 |
| nubae | right | 22:30 |
| LaserJock | I don't think Canonical minds hosting things | 22:30 |
| Svenstaro | I don't really care too much about that, to be honest. I can host my own ISOs for now anyway. | 22:30 |
| LaserJock | they just want it to be worth it | 22:30 |
| LaserJock | it sounds like the addon .iso wasn't getting much demand | 22:31 |
| LaserJock | and so they replaced it with Ubuntu Netbook Remix | 22:31 |
| LaserJock | Svenstaro: well, for Edubuntu I think it's *the* biggest concern for the future | 22:32 |
| LaserJock | I think having a full distro is going to be important, but if we can't host it it's not worth much | 22:32 |
| Svenstaro | LaserJock, come again? Hosting ISOs is the biggest concern for us? | 22:32 |
| LaserJock | I think it could be in terms of the future | 22:33 |
| Svenstaro | Many people here can provide mirrors, we have bittorrent available to us, I have my dedicated servers, I don't think it'd be a showstopper at all. | 22:33 |
| LaserJock | well, but we haven't had mirrors | 22:34 |
| Svenstaro | Or am I missing something? | 22:34 |
| LaserJock | and we still need Canonical to host the builds | 22:34 |
| LaserJock | which I don't think is a big deal | 22:34 |
| Svenstaro | Don't think too much of that, really. We can ask the usual universities for hosting as well. | 22:34 |
| nubae | heh, what do u think about this for secondary or tertiary... penguin falls asleep under an iceberg and a seal falls on his head | 22:35 |
| Svenstaro | We will use Ubiquity I assume? | 22:35 |
| LaserJock | in any case, somebody needs to talk with the release team about it | 22:35 |
| nubae | or maybe a whole load fish | 22:36 |
| LaserJock | I'm not sure about Ubiquity | 22:36 |
| nubae | so its like newton... but penguin based | 22:36 |
| LaserJock | nubae: maybe, I'd have to see it | 22:36 |
| LaserJock | ohhh | 22:36 |
| LaserJock | heh, yeah, that'd kinda be funny | 22:36 |
| nubae | tertiary could be einstein penguin | 22:36 |
| LaserJock | yeah! | 22:36 |
| nubae | discovering relativty or something | 22:36 |
| Svenstaro | nubae, great ideas there. | 22:37 |
| nubae | he could discover himself in an alternate dimension | 22:37 |
| Svenstaro | A bearded penguin *shudder* | 22:37 |
| nubae | well I'll get drawing.. The newton one will be funny for sure | 22:37 |
| LaserJock | I'm kinda of conflicted about using a LiveCD for install or not | 22:37 |
| nubae | whats more like an apple? | 22:37 |
| Svenstaro | You could also have the usual atom-electron representation with small penguins orbiting the atom instead of electron dots. | 22:37 |
| nubae | I want to make sure people get it | 22:37 |
| nubae | Svenstaro: yeah, thats not too hard to do | 22:38 |
| LaserJock | traditionally we've used the Alternate CD for installing LTSP | 22:38 |
| nubae | and preschool maybe just penguins dancing around | 22:38 |
| nubae | I'll see what I come up with, any ideas for alternative to an apple? | 22:38 |
| nubae | I guess a big fish is the closest | 22:39 |
| LaserJock | a sardine looking thing would maybe work | 22:39 |
| nubae | yeah | 22:39 |
| Svenstaro | LaserJock, we wanna make it worth it, don't we? Why should we keep it to Ubuntu alternate? I don't like that idea at all. This time, there should be a *clear* separation of Edubuntu and the rest. | 22:39 |
| nubae | and he could have his mouth open... snoring like | 22:39 |
| LaserJock | Svenstaro: right, there were just technical issues | 22:39 |
| LaserJock | Svenstaro: nobody had yet been able to do a LiveCd install of LTSP | 22:40 |
| Svenstaro | I'm about to figure out everything now. | 22:40 |
| Svenstaro | We shall be the first men on this kind of moon then. | 22:40 |
| nubae | ok, so bearded einstein penguin with atom-electron diagram showing small dancing penguins | 22:40 |
| Svenstaro | nubae, more like electron penguins in "swimming pose" with their wings to their body, like they are diving at great speed | 22:40 |
| LaserJock | initially I wanted to have 1 .iso be a LiveCD with no installer for demos | 22:41 |
| LaserJock | and then have another installable .iso either as an Addon or Alternate Cd | 22:41 |
| nubae | Svenstaro: yeah, and they could be like riding a wave... | 22:41 |
| nubae | or particles | 22:41 |
| nubae | :-) | 22:41 |
| nubae | grin | 22:41 |
| Svenstaro | Is there a post tertiary skin? | 22:43 |
| Svenstaro | Could be string penguin vibrations or something along those lines. | 22:43 |
| LaserJock | we haven't gotten to post-tertiary | 22:43 |
| LaserJock | in face, we haven't even really gotten to tertiary | 22:43 |
| LaserJock | I was thinking about the need to focus down to start with | 22:43 |
| nubae | hehe, for preschool, we can play with the evolution theme, except from fish to man, we do fish to penguin | 22:44 |
| Svenstaro | Should we really keep separating apps in that manner? No critizism, just a call to reflect on that earlier decision. | 22:44 |
| LaserJock | Svenstaro: well, Jaunty was the first release to do that | 22:44 |
| LaserJock | it's a common request that we make things more age-appropriate | 22:44 |
| nubae | sorry ape to man becomes chicken to penguin or something | 22:45 |
| LaserJock | and that people don't know what apps are for what ages, etc. | 22:45 |
| nubae | I'm thinking of this drawing... the ape to men drawing: http://www.iconsofevolution.com/ | 22:45 |
| LaserJock | sure | 22:45 |
| nubae | or man to penguin going via mermaid? | 22:46 |
| Svenstaro | Ubuntu Christianic Edition will hate us. | 22:46 |
| nubae | hehe, we do something special for them | 22:46 |
| LaserJock | starting with a dinosaur might be better | 22:46 |
| nubae | dinasour to penguin... hmmmm | 22:46 |
| LaserJock | via chicken-looking thing? | 22:46 |
| nubae | yeah or we could look for the actual penguin lineage | 22:47 |
| LaserJock | Svenstaro: I doubt UCE would complain ;-) | 22:47 |
| Svenstaro | You could have a bunch of penguin like creatures, dinosaurs with penguin features. A bit like "Homer Evolution", do you know that one? | 22:47 |
| nubae | make it realisitic | 22:47 |
| Svenstaro | LaserJock, but they certainly won't be happy :P | 22:47 |
| nubae | so from bird dinasour to penguin | 22:47 |
| LaserJock | Svenstaro: not necessarily | 22:47 |
| nubae | terodactyl, via flightless bird (ostrich) to penguin | 22:47 |
| Svenstaro | Baptism schools are not going to use Edubuntu hehe | 22:48 |
| nubae | that has the fun of being kind of funny, but not too funny, and still educational | 22:48 |
| nubae | ok, so got ideas for all of them now... | 22:48 |
| Svenstaro | nubae, is that line actually correct then? Terodactyl to penguin? | 22:48 |
| nubae | I'll post my drawings tomorrow | 22:48 |
| nubae | heheehe... yeah it is... | 22:49 |
| LaserJock | it's a cartoon, we can make it funny | 22:49 |
| nubae | who is gonna prove me wrong :p | 22:49 |
| LaserJock | that's right | 22:49 |
| LaserJock | something like openSUSE's new theme would be awesome for tertiary | 22:49 |
| nubae | http://www.geologyrocks.co.uk/system/files/u3/birdcompl.gif | 22:50 |
| nubae | there's the actual line, so I may actually not be far off the mark | 22:50 |
| nubae | :p | 22:50 |
| nubae | hmmm so from velociraptor to penguin is not even that much of a stretch | 22:53 |
| Svenstaro | Velociraptors OWN penguins :P | 22:54 |
| nubae | well, we are gonna teach that penguins once WERE velociraptors :p | 22:54 |
| Svenstaro | Anyway, do you guys reckon this is the right way to create a live medium for us? https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LiveCDCustomizationFromScratch | 22:55 |
| LaserJock | no | 22:55 |
| LaserJock | we have builders like I said | 22:56 |
| Svenstaro | So where should I start? | 22:56 |
| nubae | http://www.google.at/imgres?imgurl=http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_DiIjdY7RFr0/SOJR37MjjMI/AAAAAAAAA6E/E6RzsozZ67k/S1600-R/Penguin%2BDiversification.jpg&imgrefurl=http://penguinology.blogspot.com/2009/01/yellow-eyed-penguin-megadyptes.html&h=376&w=486&sz=63&tbnid=e9CE8ckt5IjThM:&tbnh=100&tbnw=129&prev=/images%3Fq%3Devolution%2Bof%2Bpenguins%2Bimages&usg=__va8DDYZVRB66IbdrPDDtLpnNdl8=&ei=T6shSsXVEpyOjAelrYnUBg&sa=X&oi=image_result&resnum=4&ct= | 22:56 |
| nubae | penguin evolution | 22:56 |
| LaserJock | well, I would have a look at ubuntu-cdimage and debian-cd | 22:56 |
| LaserJock | and read up on seed management/germinate | 22:56 |
| nubae | that is one long ass url | 22:56 |
| Svenstaro | LaserJock, what kind of work do I need to do for the builders to work from? Can't I just create a script that does everything from start to end? | 22:58 |
| LaserJock | umm, that's what ubuntu-cdimage is | 22:59 |
| LaserJock | like I said, Ubuntu already has everything | 22:59 |
| Svenstaro | The tool's name is ubuntu-cdimage? | 22:59 |
| LaserJock | what we need to do is get the configuration stuff setup so that it builds a LiveCD rather than an addon Cd | 22:59 |
| LaserJock | Svenstaro: let me give you the bzr branches | 23:00 |
| Svenstaro | https://code.launchpad.net/ubuntu-cdimage ? | 23:00 |
| LaserJock | I think so yes | 23:00 |
| LaserJock | it should get you ~cjwatson/ubuntu-cdimage/mainline | 23:01 |
| Svenstaro | Can't find docs on it, is the included stuff enough to get me started? | 23:01 |
| LaserJock | you also want the debian-cd bzr branch as well | 23:01 |
| LaserJock | and install germinate | 23:01 |
| Svenstaro | https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-cdimage/debian-cd/ubuntu ? | 23:02 |
| LaserJock | yep | 23:03 |
| LaserJock | you want to read README and config/devel | 23:03 |
| Svenstaro | Do I want to use anything pre-existing in the Edubuntu project right now or start over? | 23:03 |
| LaserJock | well, a fair amount of it will use pre-existing | 23:03 |
| Svenstaro | Where can I get the specific Edubuntu data? | 23:04 |
| LaserJock | well, it's basically all mixed around :-) | 23:05 |
| Svenstaro | So I'll start over? | 23:05 |
| LaserJock | no | 23:06 |
| LaserJock | you just need to look at the edubuntu stuff and modify it | 23:07 |
| LaserJock | you might start with grepping for edubuntu | 23:07 |
| Svenstaro | Well, *where* is the Edubuntu stuff? If I have to hunt many different people to get the sources I'll just start over. | 23:07 |
| LaserJock | it's within the files | 23:08 |
| LaserJock | the debian-cd branch will be the most important for you | 23:10 |
| LaserJock | ubuntu-cdimage is mostly for the download webpages, which will need to be messed with aftwards | 23:10 |
| LaserJock | mostly just greping around for edubuntu should work | 23:12 |
| Svenstaro | Does this mean I can not do my own images and have to rely on the Ubuntu release team to make them for me? | 23:15 |
| LaserJock | yes | 23:15 |
| LaserJock | I don't see any reason not to | 23:15 |
| LaserJock | and I doubt the Ubuntu release team is going to host something they didn't build | 23:16 |
| Svenstaro | Well I want to rapidly test if I got it right. Sometimes I'm making three ISOs a day just for testing. | 23:16 |
| LaserJock | right, ideally we won't have to worry about that stuff | 23:16 |
| LaserJock | and all we have to do is worry about what packages are on the CD | 23:16 |
| LaserJock | the idea here is that Edubuntu shouldn't be maintaining .isos | 23:17 |
| LaserJock | as it's a resource sync | 23:17 |
| LaserJock | and a QA mess | 23:17 |
| LaserJock | rather we should focus on the actual educational stuff | 23:17 |
| LaserJock | and let the release team worry about the builds | 23:17 |
| Svenstaro | Huh? The ISOs are our only product, it's pretty much everything we have to care for! | 23:18 |
| LaserJock | no it's not | 23:18 |
| Svenstaro | Edubuntu isn't a project to care for upstream development. | 23:18 |
| LaserJock | the ISO is our delivery device | 23:19 |
| LaserJock | we have to maintain packages, fix bugs, etc. | 23:19 |
| LaserJock | write docs | 23:19 |
| LaserJock | artwork | 23:19 |
| Svenstaro | Er. That's almost no work on our side then. If I wanted to test, then, I would bug a Ubuntu release maintainer *every time* ? | 23:20 |
| LaserJock | that's a *lot* of work on our side | 23:21 |
| LaserJock | much more than I usually can get from people | 23:21 |
| LaserJock | an .iso would get built daily for testing purposes | 23:21 |
| LaserJock | and then there's the testing for the alphas, beta, and RC | 23:21 |
| Svenstaro | Do we have to care for upstream except for submitting bugs, of course? | 23:22 |
| Svenstaro | As in, development of educational software? | 23:22 |
| LaserJock | well, if we had resources we could where needed | 23:22 |
| LaserJock | but 1st priority is putting the distro together | 23:22 |
| bencrisford | When I typed apt-get install edubuntu-desktop it wanted to download something | 23:23 |
| bencrisford | what would be downloaded with that command | 23:23 |
| Svenstaro | Either I'm missing a big part, or that really isn't all that much work if the Ubuntu people take care of every technical aspect of delivery. | 23:23 |
| LaserJock | bencrisford: everything? | 23:24 |
| bencrisford | but presumable thats not a distro... | 23:25 |
| LaserJock | well, it would be | 23:25 |
| bencrisford | oh | 23:25 |
| LaserJock | it was | 23:25 |
| bencrisford | ohh | 23:25 |
| LaserJock | Svenstaro: well, it is a lot of work | 23:26 |
| LaserJock | Svenstaro: and for the last 2 releases it's been woefully inadequate | 23:26 |
| LaserJock | there are lots of things that can mess up a build | 23:27 |
| LaserJock | so we fix those, we make sure all the packages are in good shape and updated, try to fix as many bugs as we can, etc. | 23:27 |
| bencrisford | well QA is the hardest thing to co-ordinate when making a new distro | 23:27 |
| bencrisford | well not hard | 23:27 |
| bencrisford | just hard to get people | 23:27 |
| Svenstaro | It's hard when I can't even make my own images :/ | 23:27 |
| bencrisford | ill see if i can recruit a few bug-squadders to the edubuntu-bug-squad | 23:28 |
| LaserJock | Svenstaro: no it's not | 23:28 |
| LaserJock | you'll have an .iso every day | 23:28 |
| Svenstaro | How do you check something work? I change something, hit build, wait 20 minutes, test it out. | 23:28 |
| LaserJock | you test package on your machine localy | 23:28 |
| Svenstaro | I do that many times a day with my other distro and it helps a lot. I have ADHD, damnit! | 23:28 |
| LaserJock | either you're running the devel release or have a VM/chroot | 23:29 |
| LaserJock | there's absolutely no reason to be re-rolling .isos more than once a day | 23:29 |
| LaserJock | the .iso isn't a big priority | 23:30 |
| Svenstaro | There's much that can break on the way into the distro, though. Aufs2 mount not working, squashfs not unpacking or broken, initcpio wrong, wrong modules compiled, etc. | 23:30 |
| LaserJock | we just need to test it before a release (alpha, beta, etc.) | 23:30 |
| LaserJock | right | 23:30 |
| LaserJock | but that's all managed by Ubuntu | 23:30 |
| Svenstaro | Wow, see, no work for us :D | 23:30 |
| LaserJock | all that is Ubuntu's, we don't care about that | 23:30 |
| LaserJock | no! | 23:30 |
| bencrisford | Yeah, the less work the better | 23:31 |
| LaserJock | Edubuntu is about *education*, not how to build a distro from scratch | 23:31 |
| LaserJock | so there is lots and lots of education work to do | 23:31 |
| bencrisford | we'd never have enough contributors to do a full OS well enough | 23:31 |
| bencrisford | think how many ubuntu has | 23:31 |
| Svenstaro | Well we won't be rebuilding every package for us. Only those education ones. | 23:32 |
| LaserJock | right | 23:32 |
| LaserJock | so we focus on the stuff we change | 23:32 |
| LaserJock | we test to make sure that Ubuntu doesn't break anything, but beyond that it's just our packages we worry about | 23:32 |
| bencrisford | Lol, this conversation is nearly an hour long, its like a mini 2/3 man meeting | 23:33 |
| LaserJock | trust me, we will fill our time with that | 23:33 |
| bencrisford | and more | 23:33 |
| Svenstaro | Yes, because making .debs is unnecessarily complicated :/ | 23:34 |
| bencrisford | true, too true :( | 23:34 |
| Svenstaro | Let's use PKGBUILDs :d | 23:34 |
| LaserJock | it's not complicated, it's just got a learning curve :-) | 23:34 |
| LaserJock | we've got ~ 30 packages and right now 0 people maintaining them | 23:35 |
| LaserJock | so that would be, IMO, a 1st priority | 23:35 |
| nubae | ok, so I have the 2 small penguin standing on top of ice berg dropping sack of fish on teacher penguin who is asleep below reading a physics book... | 23:36 |
| nubae | think people will get it? | 23:36 |
| LaserJock | hmm, shouldn't it be just 1 fish? | 23:36 |
| nubae | yeah maybe | 23:36 |
| nubae | ok, I'll take the others out | 23:36 |
| nubae | but otherwise make sense? | 23:37 |
| bencrisford | LaserJock: We need to organise some mentoring | 23:37 |
| nubae | I mean I was thinking what instead of iceberg | 23:37 |
| bencrisford | so devs can work on bugs *with* a mentee | 23:37 |
| LaserJock | bencrisford: we need mentors first no? | 23:37 |
| bencrisford | via gobby | 23:37 |
| bencrisford | well theres the dev team | 23:37 |
| bencrisford | most of them would be happy to | 23:37 |
| LaserJock | you think? | 23:37 |
| bencrisford | and sadly, there is just as many devs as people wanting mentoring | 23:37 |
| LaserJock | of the -dev team 1/2 are not yet Ubuntu devs | 23:38 |
| LaserJock | and the other 1/2 have very little time | 23:38 |
| LaserJock | it'll take some work to get mentors ready | 23:38 |
| bencrisford | hmm | 23:38 |
| bencrisford | they dont need to be ubuntu devs | 23:38 |
| bencrisford | but perhaps the edubuntu-dev should be a member of ubuntu-dev anyway? | 23:38 |
| LaserJock | no, but I mean they're currently learning | 23:38 |
| LaserJock | no, it would really limit us | 23:39 |
| LaserJock | ubuntu-dev have permissions to upload | 23:39 |
| LaserJock | I don't want to limit people that much | 23:39 |
| bencrisford | https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/~edubuntu-dev | 23:39 |
| LaserJock | perhaps we can ask MOTU Mentors for mentoring? | 23:39 |
| bencrisford | that is our problem | 23:39 |
| bencrisford | LaserJock: perhaps | 23:40 |
| LaserJock | otherwise I really don't know who will mentor | 23:40 |
| bencrisford | hmm | 23:40 |
| LaserJock | stgraber and myself are the only ones who are at least MOTU | 23:40 |
| bencrisford | wish i was motu :( | 23:40 |
| bencrisford | maybe in a year or so :) | 23:40 |
| LaserJock | you can get there | 23:40 |
| bencrisford | contributing developer is my next big aim | 23:40 |
| LaserJock | but yeah, it takes time | 23:40 |
| bencrisford | but it would help if i was any good at development :P | 23:41 |
| LaserJock | so I think we perhaps need to do a recruiting trip to ~ubuntu-dev :-) | 23:41 |
| bencrisford | perhaps :) | 23:41 |
| LaserJock | well, the nice thing is that there are lots of people who can help you learn | 23:41 |
| LaserJock | I mean, I'm just a chemist | 23:41 |
| LaserJock | I just showed up in #ubuntu-motu one day wanting to fix a bug in a chemistry app | 23:42 |
| nubae | how about instead of an iceberg an igloo | 23:42 |
| nubae | that will look better | 23:42 |
| LaserJock | hmm | 23:42 |
| LaserJock | but an igloo doesn't have an overhang | 23:42 |
| bencrisford | maybe, if one leans off the edge | 23:43 |
| bencrisford | the other holds his belt | 23:43 |
| bencrisford | :) | 23:43 |
| Svenstaro | Why can't Ubuntu development just be as open as Arch development :/ | 23:43 |
| LaserJock | it is very open | 23:44 |
| LaserJock | but we have a lot more users than Arch, a more complicated package system, and largely higher standards | 23:44 |
| * bencrisford wants to be developer, but cant develop for sh*t :P | 23:44 | |
| bencrisford | which is why i need to learn! | 23:45 |
| bencrisford | i can just about hack my way around things, *just* about package basic stuff, so i just need practise i guess | 23:45 |
| LaserJock | yep | 23:45 |
| LaserJock | learn by doing | 23:45 |
| bencrisford | but i dont know where to practice | 23:45 |
| LaserJock | in Edubuntu of course! | 23:46 |
| LaserJock | :-) | 23:46 |
| bencrisford | all too complex bugs | 23:46 |
| LaserJock | you don't have to fix bugs | 23:46 |
| bencrisford | i want to | 23:46 |
| Svenstaro | Make a wizard that asks the users what they want to do. | 23:46 |
| LaserJock | we need syncs and merges | 23:46 |
| Svenstaro | Grab glade, python and gtk+ | 23:46 |
| bencrisford | syncs? i only know one type of sink and im guessing its not the same one LaserJock | 23:47 |
| LaserJock | heh, no | 23:47 |
| bencrisford | i enjoy fixing bugs | 23:47 |
| bencrisford | i had loads of fun with that documentation bug, even though it was so boring :) | 23:48 |
| LaserJock | well, there's 2 basic ways we get packages from Debian, depending on whether we've modified them or not | 23:48 |
| LaserJock | a sync is done when we've made no changes and take the source package directly from Debian | 23:48 |
| LaserJock | a merge is when we've got changes and so the package must be manually updated and uploaded | 23:48 |
| LaserJock | both require a developer's signoff | 23:48 |
| bencrisford | right | 23:48 |
| bencrisford | and when we edit the control of debian packages, do we put the maintainer as motu or edubuntu dev? | 23:49 |
| LaserJock | not MOTU | 23:49 |
| LaserJock | either edubuntu-dev if we're claiming it or ubuntu-devel-discuss | 23:49 |
| bencrisford | edubuntu dev? | 23:49 |
| bencrisford | ok | 23:49 |
| LaserJock | or wait | 23:49 |
| LaserJock | edubuntu-devel | 23:49 |
| bencrisford | ok | 23:49 |
| LaserJock | the lists | 23:49 |
| LaserJock | *list | 23:50 |
| Svenstaro | Why can't we just use the upstream sources and make our own packages? It's no brainer for most projects. Grab sources, ./configure, make, make install and put that into the deb. No need to grab from Debian if their stuff is too old for us. | 23:50 |
| bencrisford | so like - Maintainer: Edubuntu Developers <edubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com> | 23:50 |
| LaserJock | Svenstaro: because it's not a no brainer | 23:50 |
| LaserJock | bencrisford: I think that's what I did :-) | 23:50 |
| bencrisford | ok :) | 23:50 |
| LaserJock | traditionally we've just used the normal ubuntu-devel-discuss one for Main | 23:50 |
| bencrisford | well if i get a point in the right direction, im normally ok | 23:51 |
| LaserJock | but for ones that we're going to claim we should probably do so | 23:51 |
| bencrisford | ok | 23:51 |
| LaserJock | Svenstaro: we can certainly jump ahead of Debian if we wish, but it requires work :-) | 23:51 |
| bencrisford | if i was to start working on a bug, and found the control had a different maintainer LaserJock, would I change it to edubuntu devel | 23:51 |
| LaserJock | so we only do that when there is somebody to maintain it | 23:51 |
| Svenstaro | Why is the simple approach too simple for Ubuntu :/ | 23:51 |
| LaserJock | Svenstaro: generally there are issues that come up, bugs, etc. | 23:52 |
| bencrisford | not too simple for me :P | 23:52 |
| LaserJock | Svenstaro: integrating it into the distro isn't always trivial, sometimes it is though | 23:52 |
| bencrisford | Im gonna get some sleep soon | 23:53 |
| LaserJock | it's not an Ubuntu problem, all distros do it pretty much | 23:53 |
| Svenstaro | Well there are standard paths that work for most things where Ubuntu keeps to the unix filesystem hierachy, except for /var/www | 23:53 |
| LaserJock | bencrisford: generally you want to go with what's already there | 23:53 |
| bencrisford | i have 1000 word essay to write tommorrow - so i might not be around as much | 23:53 |
| bencrisford | but i should get a minute or two | 23:53 |
| LaserJock | Svenstaro: right, but you'd be surprised how many upstreams don't stick with the FHS, etc. | 23:53 |
| LaserJock | bencrisford: the general mantra is "minimize divergence", that is, make your changes as small as possible to get done what you want to | 23:54 |
| bencrisford | LaserJock: Ok :) | 23:54 |
| bencrisford | !info gcompris | 23:55 |
| ubottu | gcompris (source: gcompris): Educational games for small children. In component main, is optional. Version 8.4.4-1.1ubuntu4 (jaunty), package size 457 kB, installed size 1568 kB | 23:55 |
| LaserJock | Svenstaro: if a simple ./configure && make && make install works we just go with it and it takes like 5 min to make the package from scratch | 23:56 |
| LaserJock | Svenstaro: but most of the time it's quite a bit more complicated | 23:56 |
| LaserJock | Svenstaro: and then there's backporting fixes, making fixes, etc. | 23:57 |
| Svenstaro | I know, I'm dealing with those on a regular basis but so far there just was no package that would be utterly complex to create. | 23:58 |
| LaserJock | no, it's not utterly complex | 23:58 |
| LaserJock | it's just somebody has to do the work | 23:58 |
| bencrisford | anyway night | 23:58 |
| Svenstaro | Many packages broke with gcc43 but googling usually gets the fix quickly, so I'm confident. | 23:58 |
| LaserJock | we've only got like 3 outdated packages right now | 23:59 |
| LaserJock | but we've got almost 300 bug reports | 23:59 |
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