[01:02] <nixternal> hey, whats up with KDE 4.3 Beta 1 mucking up the plasma panel llke it does?
[03:13] <lex79> JontheEchidna: plasma-widget-droptoimageshack is in queue since 13 May, is normal?
[03:15] <JontheEchidna> lex79: everybody's away at UDS, so it's not normal but it is also expected
[03:16] <lex79> ok
[03:28]  * ScottK waves.
[03:28] <ScottK> Is back from UDS and already left on his next trip ...
[03:29] <vorian> join facebook thingy
[03:36] <ScottK> That's mean I'd have to actually care about my facebook account?
[03:36]  * ScottK has one, but only because it's a requirement for the kids to have facebook that they friend us.
[07:46] <nixternal> hey, we are ubuntu, we are free...JOIN FACEBOOK!
[07:46] <Tm_T> nixternal: ER?!
[07:46] <nixternal> people wanting you to join facebook for ubuntu, and now ubuntu developers
[07:46] <nixternal> ya, like I need more virtual friends
[07:46] <Tm_T> nixternal: yes, you have me, so you have all you need
[07:47] <nixternal> exactly, thank you :)
[07:47] <Tm_T> you're my pawn, muhahahahahahaha!
[07:47]  * Tm_T hides
[07:47] <nixternal> hey now
[07:47] <nixternal> the love was ok, but pawning me took it to far ;p
[07:47]  * Tm_T huggles nixternal
[07:47] <nixternal> just finished catching up on "The Hills" on MTV
[07:47] <nixternal> I am such a loser
[07:47] <nixternal> but I am addicted to that show
[07:48] <Tm_T> glad I have no idea what you're talking about
[07:50] <nixternal> I thought everyone knew what the hills was, guess not...now that is what I call deprived :p
[07:52] <Tm_T> nixternal: well, I don't watch MTV or other that kind of channels in the first place (;)
[07:52] <nixternal> I didn't either, but my x-girlfriend got me freakin' addicted
[07:52] <nixternal> before the hills it was leguna beach...god I am a loser
[07:52] <Tm_T> nixternal: come here so we can fix you
[07:53] <Tm_T> we have to save you from yourself
[07:53] <nixternal> hahaha
[07:56] <nixternal> holy shit, what was rgreening and sebas thinking with barbie world? that right there is enough to make me quit KDE ;p
[07:56] <Tm_T> ?
[07:56] <nixternal> look at the planet
[07:56] <nixternal> embarassing
[07:56] <nixternal> at least I do Ice Ice Baby
[07:57] <Tm_T> which planet?
[07:57] <Tm_T> oh, Ubuntu
[10:21] <Tm_T> apachelogger is gone ):
[11:19] <sebas> nixternal: ssth, don't spread it even more :D
[11:29] <Riddell> ug, /me has deadly UDS plauge
[11:29] <Riddell> freeflying: how do you mean check your mail alias?
[11:31] <Riddell> Tm_T: gone where?
[11:33] <Tm_T> well not in channel
[11:33] <Tm_T> wanted to discuss about jingle
[11:37] <freeflying> Riddell: can't get any mail been sent to zhengpeng-hou  AT kubuntu.org
[11:40] <Riddell> freeflying: you didn't renew your membership of kubuntu-members "Expired on 2009-04-12"
[11:57]  * Nightrose reads http://drowninginbugs.blogspot.com/2009/06/action-items-from-uds-barcelona.html about pulseaudio and shudders
[12:15] <shtylman> Riddell: ...so it finally got ya eh?
[12:28] <Riddell> shtylman: mm, it certaily did
[12:28] <Riddell> shtylman: get home ok?
[12:28] <shtylman> Riddell: yep :) ... watched movies the whole flight back
[12:34] <shtylman> http://boredandblogging.tv/2009/05/31/uds-karmic-kdekubuntu/ <--- needs serious censoring
[12:50] <rgreening> Quintasan: ping
[12:50]  * ryanakca caught the plague too :/
[12:50]  * rgreening has too
[12:51] <rgreening> hacking big green globs rather thna code is not fun
[12:53] <jussi01> great green globs of greasy grimy gopher guts and me without my spoon....
[12:53] <jussi01> sorry... rgreening just reminded me of that cub scout song...
[12:53] <jussi01> :D
[12:54] <rgreening> pbuild uds-plague && scp uds-plague* jussi01:.
[12:54] <rgreening> :)
[12:54] <jussi01> rofl
[12:56] <rgreening> Quintasan: kdewebdev-kde4 - can you re-do for Karmic instead of Jaunty :)
[12:57] <rgreening> ping when you have it and I'll upload right away Quintasan
[13:10] <Nightrose> rgreening: ScottK told us to tell you he has got your jacket
[13:10] <Nightrose> and he'll get it to you when he gets back from his business trip
[13:11] <rgreening> YAY!
[13:11] <rgreening> I knew I left it as soon as I got on th eplane :(
[13:11] <rgreening> ty ScottK :)
[13:12] <rgreening> I was much too drunk to be packing
[13:12] <Nightrose> haha
[13:13] <Nightrose> rgreening: btw the PA stuff in http://boredandblogging.tv/2009/05/31/uds-karmic-kdekubuntu/ makes me sob
[13:13]  * Nightrose really really hopes we do not use PA in kubuntu anytime soon unless it massively improves
[13:15] <rgreening> :P) that wa ssoooo fun
[13:20] <rgreening> hey agateau, have you recovered from the Karoke trauma :)
[13:21] <agateau> rgreening: i am fine, but I am wondering about the audience :)
[13:21] <rgreening> BARBIE_GIRL looks 9 mo pregneant
[13:21] <rgreening> haha
[13:21] <agateau> :D
[13:22] <rgreening> Nightrose: you missed a lot of fun
[13:23] <Nightrose> rgreening: *g* looks like I did yea
[13:24] <rgreening> The kde/kubuntu team kicked a$$ all around :)
[13:24] <Nightrose> very good! :D
[13:27] <JontheEchidna> New queue sorta got behind during UDS, lol
[13:29] <JontheEchidna> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=530725
[13:30] <JontheEchidna> looks like we need to use kde.mk from pkg-kde-tools for universe KDE packages instead of debian-qt-kde.mk
[13:30] <rgreening> ryanakca: ping
[13:35] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: yeah, we should be using kde.mk for anything other than main KDE modules
[13:35] <Riddell> as far as I understand it
[13:36] <JontheEchidna> I'll fire a mail off to -devel then, since everybody (me included) seems to be using debian-qt-kde.mk
[13:37] <Riddell> thanks
[13:38] <rgreening> that would be useful to know for sure :)
[13:38] <freeflying> Riddell: so, I'd rejoin kubuntu-member?
[13:39] <Riddell> freeflying: yes
[13:40] <Riddell> anyone looked at amarok 2.1?
[13:43] <Tm_T> Riddell: other than running it?
[13:43] <JontheEchidna> Riddell: _Groo was working on packages
[13:44] <JontheEchidna> iirc he just needed sponsorship from a core-dev
[13:45] <Riddell> he's a new guy?
[13:45]  * Nightrose wonders who gave him amarok as a starter
[13:46] <Nightrose> that's like not a good package to start with ;-)
[13:46] <Tm_T> Nightrose: well, if he masterst it rightaway, he did pass our little test then, roight?
[13:46] <Tm_T> -t
[13:46] <Nightrose> well from his comments here I am not convinced ;-)
[13:48] <Riddell> anyone looked at the new kdevelop beta?
[13:53] <JontheEchidna> that kdevelop transition during UDS was the new beta I think
[14:00] <rgreening> ScottK: ping...
[14:07] <ryanakca> rgreening: pong
[14:08] <ryanakca> rgreening: today is a catch-up-on-a-week-of-homework day, but what can I do for you?
[14:12] <Quintasan> rgreening: I srlsy did that for Jaunty?
[14:15] <rgreening> ryanakca: hey. in your package, you forgot to update the maintainer field. for qtscriptgenerator.
[14:15] <rgreening> Quintasan: the kdewebdev-kde4 you provided to me was for jaunty... needs ot be for karmic...
[14:15] <Quintasan> oh god, such a failure
[14:16] <rgreening> :)
[14:16] <Quintasan> rgreening: you still have the debdiff? I don't remeber the build deps
[14:16] <rgreening> lol... happens to all of us...
[14:16] <rgreening> 1 sec Quintasan
[14:17] <rgreening> Quintasan:  http://paste.ubuntu.com/185675/
[14:18] <Quintasan> thx
[14:18] <rgreening> Quintasan: it should be on 4.2.85
[14:18] <rgreening> in karmic
[14:18] <Quintasan> ok
[14:32] <Tm_T> 1631.49 < allen_kdab> Friendly Reminder: KDE4.3beta2 tagging in the next day or 2.
[14:33]  * Tm_T is spreading panic
[14:33]  * Quintasan rages
[14:34] <ryanakca> rgreening: Are you looking at some old debdiff or at the bzr branch? lp:~kubuntu-members/qtscriptgenerator/ubuntu
[14:35] <rgreening> ryanakca: I was working from the last debdiff I had from you. If the bzr branch different?
[14:35] <ryanakca> rgreening: Yes
[14:35] <rgreening> so, I should look at the bzr
[14:36] <ryanakca> *nod*
[14:37] <jussi01> hrm... alt+f2 doesnt seem to work here... yay for me...
[14:39] <rgreening> ryanakca: ok. will do.
[15:04] <JontheEchidna> rgreening: kdewebdev-kde4 was moved to kdewebdev
[15:04] <Quintasan> JontheEchidna: that means I'm doing it wrong?
[15:04] <Quintasan> argh
[15:04] <Quintasan> I hate it
[15:05] <JontheEchidna> somebody forgot to file a removal request for kdewebdev-kde4
[15:05] <JontheEchidna> Riddell: ^If you could take care of that using your archive admin skillz
[15:05] <Quintasan> kk, I will get karmic tar and fix if
[15:05] <Quintasan> s/if/it
[15:05] <rgreening> JontheEchidna: can you help Quintasan with this... I am going to be preoccupied for a bit..
[15:05] <rgreening> if needed :)
[15:07] <JontheEchidna> I don't think the phonon transition applies to the kdewebdev package (the phonon build-dep was probably dropped in the merge)
[15:08] <Quintasan> checking won't hurt, I think :P
[15:08] <JontheEchidna> I did :P
[15:08] <JontheEchidna> just remove that I don't think part then I guess
[15:09] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: done
[15:09] <Quintasan> JontheEchidna: yup, but still it needs libxml1-dev
[15:09] <JontheEchidna> Quintasan: libxlst-dev should pull that in
[15:09] <JontheEchidna> except that libxlst-dev doesn't exist :/ It's libxlst1-dev
[15:09] <JontheEchidna> so something still needs fixed ^_^
[15:10] <JontheEchidna> er, libxslt for all that I said, typo on my part
[15:10] <Quintasan> yup, it depends on xml
[15:11] <JontheEchidna> Riddell: thanks
[15:14] <Quintasan> now it should work
[15:16] <JontheEchidna> So was the decision at UDS to replace koffice1 with koffice2? I have to do a koffice2 rebuild for a new upstream release of opengtl, and it'd be efficient to merge at the same time.
[15:16] <JontheEchidna> I see that the replacement is in the Todo
[15:19] <JontheEchidna> I also see that vorian is down to do that, so I suppose I'll just merge and keep it as k*-kde4 packages
[15:29] <Tonio_> hi there
[15:29] <Tonio_> k3b/policykit-kde fixed in karmic
[15:30] <Riddell> awooga
[15:30] <Riddell> Tonio_: journey back ok?
[15:30] <Tonio_> I still have to patch for update-notifier packages installation
[15:30] <Tonio_> Riddell: yeah, except I'm really tired :)
[15:30] <Tonio_> hehe
[15:30] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: upstream don't want us to put koffice 2 in main
[15:30] <seele> is there a wiki page with all of the karmic specs yet?
[15:30] <Tm_T> Riddell: in Karmic ?
[15:31] <Riddell> KubuntuKarmicSpecs but I need to tidy it up
[15:31] <Riddell> Tm_T: right, 2.0 isn't ready for users they say
[15:31] <Tm_T> Riddell: not planned to be ready in 9.10 even?
[15:31] <Tm_T> interesting
[15:33] <Tonio_> Riddell: I'll write my 2 specs toonight
[15:34] <Quintasan> rgreening: http://pastebin.com/f4cbbca89
[15:34] <Quintasan> rgreening: fixed
[15:43] <Riddell> Tm_T: well 2.0 isn't ready they say and 2.1 won't be out until after october
[15:43] <Riddell> although krita may be an exception
[15:44] <Riddell> Tonio_: smb sharing and usb creator?
[15:44] <Tonio_> yep
[15:44] <Tonio_> I'll also spend a couple of days improving our default settings... we lack so many things...
[15:47] <Tonio_> Riddell: http://websvn.kde.org/trunk/playground/base/plasma/netbook/
[15:47] <Tm_T> Riddell: roger roger
[15:47] <Tonio_> Riddell: plasma-mid receives updates at the time, which is pretty cool :)
[15:48] <Tm_T> Tonio_: indeed, though not yet usable I hear
[15:48] <Tonio_> anyone to review frescobaldi on revu please ?
[15:48] <Tonio_> Tm_T: nope, but it'll be :)
[15:48] <Tonio_> Tm_T: netbook is my big task of this cycle
[15:48]  * shtylman making good progress on qt4/kde4 port of openoffice :)
[15:48] <Tm_T> Tonio_: aye, as I'm kicking marts butt
[15:48] <Tm_T> Tonio_: ok, you kick him too
[15:48] <Tonio_> Tm_T: there are quite a lot of people taking care of the work I used to do before, so I'll handle something else :)
[15:49] <Tm_T> heh
[15:49] <Tonio_> shtylman: finalli fixed your problem of the UDS ?
[15:49] <Tonio_> shtylman: I knew that a couple of days break would help you :)
[15:49]  * Riddell high fives shtylman 
[15:50] <shtylman> Tonio_: nope..just taking an entirely different approach :) currently migrating all the widget drawing code...and in the process hope to delete like 5000 lines of redundant old code...also...latest kdevelop is amazing!
[15:51] <Tonio_> shtylman: hehehe
[15:52]  * ryanakca => reinstall jaunty
[15:53] <Tonio_> Riddell: what about your kopete-facebook thing ?
[15:53] <Tonio_> Riddell: is this requiring external packaging or is it part of kopete's trunk ?
[15:53] <Tonio_> smarter: on va pouvoir commencer dolphin-share pour info ma poule :)
[15:53] <smarter> \o/
[15:53] <Tonio_> smarter: I'm writing the spec toonight
[15:54] <Tonio_> smarter: I see to major things to do in there
[15:54] <Tonio_> smarter: 1/ act as a net usershare frontend, which seems quite easy
[15:54] <smarter> mais je passe mon bac dans 3 semaines, donc je serais pas super actif :]
[15:54] <Tonio_> smarter: and patch dolphin so that shared folders appear as share
[15:55] <Tonio_> smarter: get your diploma first :)  it is not a hudge job and we have time
[15:55] <Tonio_> smarter: the target is karmic -> october
[15:55]  * Tonio_ wishes good luck to smarter
[15:55] <smarter> and remove/replace the systemsettings "sharing" module?
[15:55] <smarter> thanks :)
[15:56] <Tonio_> smarter: no kcm module in fact, we'll drop this and just integrate the dolphin stuff
[15:56] <Tonio_> smarter: I'll write the full spec toonight
[15:56] <Tonio_> smarter: atm I wonder if we should release an external tarball or not.... we'll see :)
[15:57] <Tonio_> smarter: not having to patch kdenetwork first might make the dev easier, and then we can merge when it's done
[16:01] <Riddell> Tonio_: it's external (for KDE 4.3)
[16:01] <smarter> ok
[16:02] <Tonio_> Riddell: kk, have you done the package ? I can work on that if interested :)
[16:04] <seele> sebas: are you on the ayatana list? if you aren't you probably should be. all they talk about atm is notifications
[16:04] <Riddell> Tonio_: it's on revu
[16:04] <Tonio_> Riddell: ok I'll revu it then
[16:04] <Riddell> Tonio_: kopete-facebook and qjson
[16:05] <seele> Tonio_: btw.. i'll be in paris september 21st for a few days.. we should hang out!
[16:05] <Riddell> Tonio_: feel free to upload if you recon it's good enough
[16:05] <seele> and london later that week for anyone there
[16:05] <Tonio_> Riddell: sure
[16:07] <Tonio_> Riddell: I'll have to repack first, since there is no copying informations in the sources
[16:08] <Tonio_> hey seele :) we missed you this weel !
[16:08] <seele> Tonio_: i know.. i feel like i missed out on everything by not going :(
[16:08] <Tonio_> seele: there will be other uds btw :)
[16:09] <Tonio_> seele: get married first, this seems more important from the real life perspective :)
[16:09] <maco> guys, is printing all borked in kubuntu karmic?
[16:09] <Riddell> Tonio_: right, I asked duncan to add that upstream, please check he put it into git
[16:09] <Riddell> maco: I managed to print off my flight stuff before UDS
[16:10] <maco> yeah and i managed to print last night...
[16:10] <maco> last night, after upgrade, i printed to my networked printer
[16:10] <maco> today, i cannot print to company networked printer
[16:10] <Tonio_> Riddell: he didn't
[16:11] <maco> systemsettings printer thingy just yells python errors at me :-/
[16:11] <Tonio_> Riddell: I'll do repacking this and send him an email with the diff
[16:12] <Riddell> maco: try installing the python qt dbus package
[16:12] <maco> "the service Printer Configuration does not provide an interface KCModule with keyword system-config-printer-kde/system-config-printer-kde.py The factory does not support creating comonents of the specified type"
[16:13] <maco> and python-qt4-dbus is installed
[16:13] <maco> as is  system-config-printer-kde
[16:15] <Tonio_> Riddell: any specific reason you used include /usr/share/pkg-kde-tools/makefiles/1/cdbs/kde.mk for kopete-facebook ?
[16:16] <Riddell> meh, I'll look into that when I get a moment then maco (you can use system-config-printer-gnome in the mean time if you want)
[16:16] <Tonio_> Riddell: that was to avoid using quilt and use simple-atchsys ?
[16:16] <Riddell> Tonio_: it builds the package?
[16:16] <Tonio_> Riddell: didn't try the build yet ;)
[16:17] <Tonio_> Riddell: just wondering why this and not /usr/share/pkg-kde-tools/qt-kde-team/1/debian-qt-kde.mk
[16:17] <Tonio_> as this seems to be our "standard" to call it like this
[16:17] <JontheEchidna> Tonio_: see my mail to -devel about debian-qt-kde.mk
[16:17] <Tonio_> JontheEchidna: don't tell me this has changed again.....
[16:17] <JontheEchidna> lol
[16:18] <Tonio_> on the other hand, if that allows me to get rid of quilt, I'll go for it instantly
[16:22] <Tonio_> JontheEchidna: when was it ? you send to many emails there :)
[16:23] <Tonio_> JontheEchidna: ok got it
[16:23] <Tonio_> JontheEchidna: fine with me, especially since I can now use cdbs patch system and get rid of the nasty quilt :)
[16:24] <Tonio_> hi sabdfl
[16:24] <Tonio_> JontheEchidna: on the other hand, I hope it'll be the last packaging policy change in this cycle...
[16:24] <Tonio_> JontheEchidna: it's kinda boring to fix packages with each uploads...
[16:24] <Tonio_> hi agateau_ :)
[16:25] <agateau_> Tonio_: my internet access is not reliable today :/
[16:26] <Tonio_> agateau_: free ?
[16:26] <agateau> 9
[16:26] <agateau> usually works fine, just not today
[16:27] <Tonio_> agateau: I have numericable, which is a lot better than anything else I used before :)
[16:27] <Tonio_> agateau: but that just because I have optical fiber here
[16:27] <agateau> Tonio_: numericable is not available in my village
[16:27] <Tonio_> my upload rate is about 450 KB/s :)
[16:28]  * agateau has a 512/64 kbps adsl line :'(
[16:28] <agateau> err 512/128
[16:29] <Tonio_> agateau: ouch...
[16:29] <Tonio_> mine is about 60 MB/5 MB
[16:29]  * JontheEchidna has a 180 kbps (1.5 mbps)/ 30 kbps
[16:29] <Tonio_> agateau: paris isn't fine for everything but for this at least, that's pretty cool :)
[16:30] <agateau> Tonio_: i guess so, but I prefer to have a garden :)
[16:30] <agateau> and i can't afford a garden in Paris
[16:30] <agateau> :)
[16:30] <Tonio_> agateau: enfoiré :)
[16:30] <Tonio_> haha
[16:31]  * agateau lives in a 1000 people village, with horses in the neighbour garden
[16:31]  * JontheEchidna wonders how to reset KDE file associations
[16:32] <Tonio_> JontheEchidna: delete .local/share/* desktop files
[16:32] <JontheEchidna> The defaults button is greyed ou in the kcm
[16:32] <JontheEchidna> oh, thanks
[16:32] <Tonio_> JontheEchidna: delete .local/share/mime desktop files
[16:32] <Tonio_> JontheEchidna: sorry
[16:32] <Tonio_> JontheEchidna: those aren't stored in profilerc anymore
[16:33] <Tonio_> JontheEchidna: delete .local/share/applications desktop files too
[16:33] <Tonio_> JontheEchidna: and run kbuildsycoca4
[16:33] <Tonio_> of course :)
[16:33] <JontheEchidna> :)
[16:34] <Tonio_> talking about that, that reminds me I have this firefox extensions for kde associations to finish too...
[16:39] <Tonio_> Riddell: kopete-facebook also has lots of files missing licence.... I'll fix all of that
[16:41] <JontheEchidna> oh, that's one thing I forgot in my note on revu note but I did notice that when I saw it on thursday
[16:44] <Tonio_> Riddell: do you plan to get facebook-kopete in main and installed by default ?
[16:49] <Tonio_> sebas: who is the right guy to contact for plasma-mid ? Marco Martin or Aaron ?
[16:50] <Riddell> Tonio_: yes I'd like to
[16:50] <Tonio_> Riddell: ok
[16:50] <Riddell> Tonio_: notmart and morpheus
[16:51] <Tonio_> Riddell: the first is marci and the second is ?
[16:51] <Tonio_> s/marci/marco
[16:51] <Riddell> someone else who said he'd work on it
[16:51] <Tonio_> Riddell: kk
[16:52] <Tonio_> Riddell: hum, were did you pick libqjson-dev ? doesn't seem to be in the archives :)
[16:52] <Tonio_> ok that's on revu too... revuing
[17:06] <Tonio_> Riddell: I just uploaded qjson.... I uploaded twice in order to fix debian/control and linqjson-dev.install
[17:07] <Tonio_> Riddell: if you go through NEW, take care at revuing the second upload
[17:08] <smarter> Tonio_: what's qjson? (apart from a JSON parser :p)
[17:10] <Tonio_> smarter: library that maps JSON data to QVariant objects
[17:11] <smarter> and what uses that?
[17:11] <Tonio_> Riddell: kopete-facebook uploaded
[17:12] <Riddell> smarter: ^^ does
[17:12] <smarter> ok ;)
[17:13] <Riddell> 1/18368  that's a big New queue
[17:14] <Tonio_> Riddell: ouch...
[17:14] <Riddell> Tonio_: did you remove the "Some files are generated by Bison" stuff from qjson debian/copyright?
[17:14]  * Tonio_ will spend a couple of days on kds before forking for mid
[17:14] <Tonio_> Riddell: hum nope
[17:15] <Tonio_> Riddell: I trusted you in this :)
[17:15] <Tonio_> Riddell: we have a problem with kde 4.2 -> 4.3 transition
[17:16] <Tonio_> Riddell: plasma config files have been splitted and renamed...
[17:16] <Tonio_> Riddell: so we need to fix kds, but the big issue is that people will have problems with their own settings -> lost
[17:16] <Riddell> Tonio_: what's the problem?
[17:16] <Tonio_> Riddell: I don't know how to handle this in the packagig side, except from fixing within startkde and a bit of bash :/
[17:16] <Riddell> k-d-s doesn't have much in its plasma-appletsrc file
[17:17] <Tonio_> Riddell: plasmarc renamed to plasma-desktoprc
[17:17] <Riddell> we don't have that in k-d-s
[17:17] <Tonio_> Riddell: well when I uploaded my all config was lost
[17:18] <Tonio_> Riddell: and plasma-appletsrc is now plasma-desktop-appletsrc
[17:18] <Tonio_> Riddell: we should rename the files through startkde I guess
[17:19] <Riddell> or through kconfig update
[17:20] <Tonio_> Riddell: I'm not used to kconfig... how would you do that ?
[17:20] <Tonio_> Riddell: just start the binary and it'll fix this ?
[17:24] <Tonio_> Riddell: tried to remove plasma-desktop*rc files and run kconf-update
[17:24] <Tonio_> Riddell: my old rc files didn't got renamed...
[17:26] <Tonio_> JontheEchidna: I saw you commented on a forum about that... any idea how to not break people's plasma without renaming through startkde ?
[17:38] <Tonio_> Riddell: wouldn't you like this in : http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php?content=92234 ?
[17:38] <Tonio_> Riddell: I like it ;)
[17:39] <Tonio_> hum looks like kwwii prefers to keep the default kde one :)
[17:41] <maco> Tonio_, oh i like it too
[17:42] <Tonio_> maco: same with me :) sounds a good "respects kde oxygen" and also brands kubuntu a little bit
[17:42] <Tonio_> maco: but it's like our policy is to keep the default :/
[17:43] <Tonio_> maco: I'll try my best to convince them, then ;)
[17:45] <Tonio_> Riddell: saw you rejected qjson, should I fix or will you do the debian/copyright fix ?
[17:49] <Riddell> Tonio_: that's the old one
[17:50] <Riddell> Tonio_: muse.19inch.net/~jr/tmp/copyright
[17:50] <Riddell> please replace with that and upload
[17:53] <Tonio_> Riddell: sure
[17:54] <Tonio_> Riddell: done
[17:56] <Tonio_> Riddell: should we go for kaffaeine to replace dragon player right now ? I'd go for it immediatly, on my side...
[18:02] <Tonio_> Riddell: also kaffeine should be promoted to mail (as kaffeine kde3 was, this shouldn't be an issue)
[18:02] <jussi01> Riddell: who was it doing the amarok 2.1 packages? and where can I find them, if you know?
[18:03]  * apachelogger does not think we should switch to Kaffeine at all
[18:03] <Tonio_> apachelogger: hum, why ?
[18:03] <apachelogger> not unless they completely rework the whole interface
[18:03] <Tonio_> apachelogger: have you tested the latest kaffeine ?
[18:03] <Tonio_> apachelogger: it's great
[18:03] <apachelogger> no
[18:03] <Tonio_> apachelogger: please do :)
[18:04] <apachelogger> have been told it is all the same non-usable thing :P
[18:04] <apachelogger> Tonio_: where to get package?
[18:04] <Tonio_> apachelogger: tabs on the left are back, fyi
[18:04] <Tonio_> apachelogger: my ppa, and also karmic
[18:04] <apachelogger> tabs?
[18:04] <Tonio_> apachelogger: as for amarok, yes
[18:04] <apachelogger> well
[18:04] <apachelogger> for amarok they made sense
[18:04] <apachelogger> for kaffeine they never did
[18:04] <apachelogger> _never_
[18:06] <apachelogger> so
[18:06] <apachelogger> why are start and playback not one thingy?
[18:07] <Tm_T> tabs are Kool!
[18:07] <Tonio_> apachelogger: why wouldn't that make sense ?
[18:07] <apachelogger> and why would I need a playlist unless I am watching loads of short porns
[18:07] <Tonio_> apachelogger: when you have a playlist, and dvd player ?
[18:07] <Tonio_> apachelogger: that's my concern
[18:08]  * Nightrose hugs kaffeine
[18:08] <Tonio_> apachelogger: for a couple KB more, we have a dvd player and a playlist
[18:08] <apachelogger> so why is it shown all the time?
[18:08] <Tonio_> same for me
[18:08] <Tonio_> apachelogger: also having the same kind of UI for both the audio and video player makes it consistent imho
[18:08] <apachelogger> well
[18:08] <Nightrose> dragon not being a single-instance app is my main petpeeve with it
[18:08] <apachelogger> another problem
[18:08] <Tonio_> apachelogger: I personally use dragonplayer
[18:08] <Nightrose> not being able to skip in a video with the keyboard is the other
[18:08] <apachelogger> kaffeine ain't a video player
[18:08] <Nightrose> that really s*cks
[18:08] <apachelogger> kaffeine is a media player
[18:08] <Tonio_> apachelogger: but I think kaffeine is a better default choice imho
[18:09] <apachelogger> Tonio_: why is that?
[18:09] <apachelogger> it is doing too many things at once
[18:09] <apachelogger> with cluttered interface
[18:09] <Tonio_> apachelogger: dvd player by default for everyone
[18:09] <Tonio_> apachelogger: playlist
[18:09] <apachelogger> and way too many features
[18:09] <Tonio_> apachelogger: better support for subtitles
[18:10] <Tonio_> apachelogger: and READS AUDIO CDS :)
[18:10] <apachelogger> YES
[18:10] <neversfelde> DVB-T in kaffeine rocks
[18:10] <Tonio_> apachelogger: which amarok can't do
[18:10] <apachelogger> that is the problem
[18:10] <Tonio_> :)
[18:10] <apachelogger> it is a media player
[18:10] <apachelogger> not a video player
[18:10] <Tonio_> apachelogger: and ?
[18:10] <Tonio_> true
[18:10] <apachelogger> if we would go with kaffeine amarok shoudl go
[18:10] <Tonio_> so we have a media player
[18:10] <Nightrose> Oo
[18:10] <Tonio_> and an advanced audio player with collection
[18:10] <apachelogger> it even clashes with the one-app per use case policy
[18:11] <Tonio_> apachelogger: we patch kaffeine not to handle audio files by default not to conflict with amarok
[18:11] <Tonio_> apachelogger: not the same functionnality
[18:11] <apachelogger> Tonio_: so what is consistent about using kaffeine for audio cds and amarok for any other audio stuff?
[18:11] <Tonio_> apachelogger: amarok is there to handle a collection
[18:11] <Tonio_> apachelogger: it is not a file per file or cd player
[18:11] <JontheEchidna> Tonio_: I don't recall commenting on that on a forum, but fwiw my settings didnt' get lost when I upgraded to 4.3 beta1
[18:11] <Nightrose> apachelogger: dragon can play audio files as well...
[18:11] <Tonio_> apachelogger: it's an collection oriented audio player
[18:11] <Tonio_> which kaffeine isn't
[18:12] <Tonio_> JontheEchidna: hum... well there was your name, but as long as it worked for you... it's fine :)
[18:12] <apachelogger> well
[18:12] <apachelogger> seriuosly
[18:12] <apachelogger> I think we shoudl push dragon player's development along
[18:12] <Tonio_> apachelogger: had amarok an audiocd function I woldn't say this
[18:12] <Nightrose> apachelogger: not gonna happen soon imho
[18:12]  * JontheEchidna goes back to his posts to see how bad his memory was :P
[18:12] <apachelogger> so reimplement auido cd support in amarok
[18:12] <Nightrose> Tonio_: coming with 2.2
[18:12] <Tonio_> apachelogger: feel free to recode the all dvd-t to dragon, but that's unlukelly to happen
[18:12] <apachelogger> Nightrose: well, not if we go with a less fitted application anyway
[18:13] <apachelogger> Tonio_: dvd-t?
[18:13] <Tonio_> apachelogger: when users wan't dvd, then they install kaffeine
[18:13] <apachelogger> why do they?
[18:13] <Tonio_> dvb-t
[18:13] <apachelogger> well
[18:13] <apachelogger> yes
[18:13] <apachelogger> so
[18:13] <Tonio_> and then they get a real app duplication
[18:13] <apachelogger> which average user got dvb-t on his pc
[18:13] <Tonio_> apachelogger: which average user want's subtitles ? and a playlist ?
[18:14]  * Nightrose wants a playlist tbh
[18:14] <Nightrose> and proper skiping in a video
[18:14] <Tonio_> Nightrose: agree
[18:14] <Tonio_> apachelogger: also our hardy users know kaffeine, and they'll find it when upgrading to next lts,which makes sense for me
[18:15] <JontheEchidna> oh: http://forum.kde.org/why-are-there-two-plasma-config-files-t-32239.html
[18:15] <Tonio_> JontheEchidna: that was it ;)
[18:15] <apachelogger> our hardy users also use the KDE 3 menu
[18:15] <apachelogger> so we should switch the app launcher to classic
[18:15] <apachelogger> feels more natural for them
[18:15] <Tonio_> apachelogger: why not ? :)
[18:15] <Tonio_> apachelogger: seriously, we just have to consider the *default* choice
[18:15] <Tonio_> not ours
[18:15] <apachelogger> yeah, that is what I am saying
[18:16] <apachelogger> kaffeine is a bad default
[18:16] <Tonio_> tell me of one advantage to dragonplayer ?
[18:16] <apachelogger> too advanced use case
[18:16] <Tonio_> too advanced ? you haven't even test it !
[18:16] <apachelogger> I am running it right now
[18:16] <Tonio_> it is really more simple than the kde3, and just does what it's meant to :)
[18:16] <apachelogger> looking at rendering buts in the start tab
[18:17] <apachelogger> it is meant to do 4 different things
[18:17] <apachelogger> play audio, video, dvd and dvb-t
[18:17] <Tonio_> apachelogger: also with it I can record streaming and so on
[18:17] <Tonio_> apachelogger: as you notice the icon says "play audio cd"
[18:17] <Tonio_> not "play audio"
[18:17] <Tonio_> and that makes the all difference
[18:17] <apachelogger> which user does record streams
[18:17] <Tonio_> apachelogger: I wan't people to have a choice when inserting an audio cd
[18:17] <apachelogger> plus that doesnt work most of the time anyway
[18:18] <Tonio_> apachelogger: currently, it's the super simple feature we don't handle
[18:18] <apachelogger> so add kscd to the CD
[18:18] <Tonio_> apachelogger: to many options is irrelevant imho
[18:18] <Tonio_> apachelogger: people are used to WMP and VLC
[18:18] <apachelogger> right
[18:18] <apachelogger> so they will install vlc
[18:18] <Tonio_> apachelogger: and most kubuntu users I know are now using VLC, since they consider dragonplayer inconsistent
[18:18] <apachelogger> or use kaffeine for all their needs
[18:19] <Tonio_> lack of subtitles support is a pain, really
[18:19] <apachelogger> so go fix it
[18:19] <Tonio_> apachelogger: so go install kaffeine :)
[18:19] <Tonio_> apachelogger: another simple fix too
[18:19] <apachelogger> right
[18:19] <apachelogger> and you don't get subtitle support accross phonon
[18:19] <Tonio_> apachelogger: fix it is irrelevant to me, I'm not a coder
[18:20] <Tonio_> apachelogger: but I can integrate another app that feet our need
[18:20] <Tonio_> as long as the app rock
[18:20] <Tonio_> apachelogger: I'm okay to rediscuss this in a meeting
[18:20] <Tonio_> apachelogger: but in the UDS, kaffeine received a general consensus
[18:20] <Tonio_> apachelogger: on the mid iso, I'll probably puh dragon btw
[18:21] <Nightrose> no subtitles in dragon?
[18:21] <larsivi> how stable/unstable is karmic compared to sucky intel drivers in jaunty?
[18:21] <Tonio_> Nightrose: never worked for me
[18:21] <Nightrose> Oo
[18:21]  * apachelogger notes that this applies to _video files_ with srt files
[18:21] <Tonio_> Nightrose: supposedly handled by phonon, I know...
[18:21] <apachelogger> subtitles from DVDs or any sensible format embedd that stuff
[18:22] <Tonio_> apachelogger: dvd management is also a lot better with kaffeine imho
[18:22] <apachelogger> what is there to manage?
[18:22] <Tonio_> apachelogger: the dvd menus
[18:22] <apachelogger> I insert that thing and want to watch a movie
[18:22] <Nightrose> Tonio_: do you have a kaffeine package for jaunty for me?
[18:22] <Tonio_> apachelogger: and I prefer kaffeine menu structure for that
[18:22] <Nightrose> for kde 4.2.3
[18:22] <Tonio_> Nightrose: on my ppa
[18:22] <Nightrose> k
[18:22] <Nightrose> thx
[18:22] <apachelogger> Tonio_: what are you doing in a menu?
[18:22] <apachelogger> seriously if I need a menu to watch a dvd I aint gonna watch it at all
[18:23] <Tonio_> Nightrose: https://edge.launchpad.net/~tonio/+archive/ppa
[18:23] <Tonio_> Nightrose: not the very latest though
[18:23] <Nightrose> thx
[18:23] <Tonio_> apachelogger: as I said, we can rediscuss this in a meeting
[18:23] <Nightrose> apachelogger: there are dvds without menu? ;-)
[18:23] <Tonio_> apachelogger: this discussion will end up nowhere
[18:23] <Tonio_> apachelogger: I love kaffeine and you don't, period :)
[18:24] <Tonio_> apachelogger: but I'll respect the council general consensus or vote
[18:24] <apachelogger> Nightrose: the usual dvd workflow: insert dvd - player loads dvd - player sends locale - dvd got jump right ahead feature if locale is provided - movie starts right away
[18:24]  * Tonio_ note we should patch kaffeine and dragon nfor codec installation
[18:24] <apachelogger> no
[18:24] <Tonio_> apachelogger: switch language ?
[18:24] <apachelogger> we should patch phonon
[18:24] <Tonio_> apachelogger: not everyone speaks english right
[18:25] <neversfelde> turn on subtitles
[18:25] <apachelogger> Tonio_: the locale ought to be locale
[18:25] <Tonio_> apachelogger: I may want to see it in french or english with french subtitles
[18:25] <apachelogger> that is why it is called locale
[18:25] <Tonio_> apachelogger: I may decide depending the dvd
[18:25] <apachelogger> Tonio_: those are advanced use cases
[18:25] <Tonio_> apachelogger: mouarf, no not at all
[18:25] <apachelogger> and even then users are used to just use the dvd builtin menu
[18:25] <Nightrose> no
[18:25] <Tonio_> apachelogger: those are standards choices for non english speaking people
[18:26] <Tonio_> apachelogger: I generally switch the language depending what I'm looking at
[18:26] <Tonio_> apachelogger: most people do that, believe me
[18:26] <apachelogger> most people I know don't speak another language well enough to switch to it
[18:26] <Tonio_> apachelogger: but might want to improve it
[18:26] <Tonio_> with subtitles
[18:26] <apachelogger> nor would they care to improve their skills by watching it in that language
[18:26] <Tonio_> and listening to it
[18:27] <Tonio_> apachelogger: you are american, and that makes your "another language" different from the rest of the world
[18:28] <Tonio_> apachelogger: with all my respect, I strongly beleive this is true
[18:28]  * JontheEchidna thought he was austrian
[18:28] <apachelogger> very much so
[18:28] <Tonio_> JontheEchidna: hum yes, sorry :)
[18:28] <Tonio_> hehe, I'm tired ;)
[18:28] <JontheEchidna> Tonio_: oh, btw, would you like me to send over what I have for k3b 1.66 alpha2?
[18:28] <Tonio_> apachelogger: anyway, in non english speaking countries, this vision is very different
[18:29] <JontheEchidna> maybe I should make a bzr branch
[18:29] <Tonio_> everyone I know tends to watch tv or dvd shows in different languages
[18:29] <Tonio_> generally native or english
[18:29] <Tonio_> JontheEchidna: yes we should
[18:29] <apachelogger> everyone I know does watch any kind of stuff in german
[18:29] <JontheEchidna> ok, I'll get on that then
[18:29] <Tonio_> apachelogger: and I beg your pardon for calling you american my friend :) I'm just lazy and tired
[18:29] <apachelogger> assuming it is available in german, otherwise they don't watch it at all
[18:30] <Tonio_> apachelogger: as I said, none of us will convince the other
[18:30] <apachelogger> most likely it will not even get on the market because there isn't much demand for that
[18:30] <Tonio_> apachelogger: you see no point in using kaffeine when I've been a true lover of it for years
[18:30] <apachelogger> I see the point
[18:30] <Tonio_> apachelogger: let's submit this in a meeting, as for the konversation/quassel debate :)
[18:30] <larsivi> I watch films in english with norwegian subtitles, even if norwegian speech is available (typically only kids movies though :P)
[18:30] <apachelogger> I just don't think it is a good enough one to make it default again
[18:31] <larsivi> quassel sucks
[18:31] <larsivi> ;)
[18:31] <apachelogger> larsivi: you can't take anyone in here as an example ;-)
[18:31] <larsivi> totally unusable for me :)
[18:31] <Tonio_> as Nightrose mentionned, dragonplayer sucks at keyboard shortcuts anyway
[18:31] <apachelogger> fix it then
[18:31] <Tonio_> larsivi: I really prefer konversation
[18:31] <apachelogger> or push someone into fixing it
[18:31] <Nightrose> apachelogger: i tried that
[18:32] <JontheEchidna> konversation ftw
[18:32] <neversfelde> apachelogger: many users are waiting for the return of kaffeine
[18:32] <JontheEchidna> Quassel's ok though
[18:32] <Tonio_> larsivi: on the other side, we have a strong relationship with quassel upstream, it'd be sad to loose this by switching
[18:32] <neversfelde> I read several threads about that in the last few weeks
[18:32] <Tonio_> apachelogger: so your point is to fix the crap app instead of using the polished one ?
[18:32] <Tonio_> apachelogger: I could say the same :)
[18:32] <apachelogger> eh
[18:32] <Tonio_> apachelogger: if you don't like kaffeine -> fix it
[18:33] <apachelogger> polished?
[18:33] <Nightrose> another really broken thing in dragon: it _never_ start with the right size
[18:33] <Tonio_> apachelogger: s/polished/feature complete/
[18:33] <apachelogger> ok, just at the start page
[18:33] <Nightrose> it start like 20 x20 pixles here most of the time
[18:33] <apachelogger> there is a button for file, audio, video, dvd and tv
[18:33] <apachelogger> now
[18:33] <larsivi> anyway, is karmic anywhere usable? and if yes, will it relatively stay that way?
[18:33] <Tonio_> apachelogger: start page as a UI bug, true, the only bug in the app I noticed so far
[18:33] <apachelogger> why would I need a button to play audio cd, video cd or dvd?
[18:33] <Tonio_> apachelogger: and believe me, I'll fix that
[18:33] <apachelogger> Tonio_: so is the playlist
[18:33] <apachelogger> menubar -> playlist
[18:33]  * larsivi watches dvd's on the hifi dvd player :P
[18:33] <apachelogger> what exact context does that have for videos?
[18:34] <apachelogger> except for the short-pron use case I mentioned earlier
[18:34] <Nightrose> apachelogger: watching a season of a tv series
[18:34] <apachelogger> then again you might not want to loop through that :D
[18:34] <Nightrose> or two movies in a row on the coutch
[18:34] <Tonio_> apachelogger: you don't see the point is having a menubar for the playlist ?
[18:34] <Nightrose> i don't wanna get up between that
[18:34] <Tonio_> apachelogger: you consider we should drag/drop from dolphin ?
[18:34] <apachelogger> Nightrose: so from that point of view, how many average users would have those stuff as files?
[18:35] <apachelogger> Tonio_: no
[18:35] <apachelogger> open that menu item
[18:35] <Nightrose> apachelogger: al lot ;-)  from downloading it from torrents
[18:35] <apachelogger> what is in there doesn't make sense
[18:35] <apachelogger> that is why kaffeine is too much a media player to be a video player
[18:35] <apachelogger> Nightrose: wile the average user knows how to do that?
[18:35] <Nightrose> uhmmm yes?
[18:35] <Nightrose> ;-)
[18:36] <apachelogger> do a case study then
[18:36] <Tonio_> apachelogger: but people are *used*"to media players, in the real world
[18:36] <Nightrose> you underestimate the average filesharer ;-)
[18:36] <apachelogger> go to a bar and ask the first dude you meet how he would download that stuff
[18:36] <Tonio_> apachelogger: most of them use winamp, wmp, itunes and so on
[18:36] <apachelogger> Nightrose: I did say the average user
[18:36] <Tonio_> apachelogger: if I could I'd merge kaffeine and amarok
[18:36] <apachelogger> well
[18:36] <apachelogger> you have to do that in order to use that argument
[18:36] <Nightrose> apachelogger: result will be similar
[18:37] <Nightrose> Tonio_: can you start a wiki page with pro's and con's for each?
[18:37] <Nightrose> i'll add some as well then
[18:37] <JontheEchidna> Tonio_: once bzr munches on things k3b will be here: https://code.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-members/k3b/ubuntu
[18:37] <Tonio_> Nightrose: no need for a wikipage I think
[18:37] <Tonio_> Nightrose: get a vote in the next meeting
[18:38] <Tonio_> JontheEchidna: super
[18:38] <Nightrose> well imho it would be good to know the pros and cons of each then
[18:38] <Nightrose> some people might not use either of the apps regularly to know their faults
[18:38] <Tonio_> Nightrose: that's the purpose of a debate+vote no ?
[18:38] <Nightrose> hehe that'll just end like this here
[18:38] <Nightrose> ;-)
[18:39] <Tonio_> Nightrose: except for a vote ;)
[18:39] <Tonio_> get the people to vote and get teh consensus :)
[18:39] <Tonio_> apachelogger: but afaik, we shipped kaffeine for 3 years, and I never saw any complaints it was too complicated
[18:40] <Tonio_> apachelogger: also, when I proposed to switch to codeine (ancerstors of kaffeine), the all world kicked my ass :)
[18:40] <Tonio_> ancestor of dragonplayer, sorry
[18:40] <apachelogger> Tonio_: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kaffeine
[18:40] <rgreening> NCommander: ping
[18:41] <Tonio_> apachelogger: 90% of the issues are due to kaffeine-kde3 over kde4 -> broken ioslaves
[18:41] <Tonio_> apachelogger: I already checked that page
[18:42] <Tonio_> apachelogger: "Kaffeine cannot find xine_part.desktop" is the very best example
[18:42] <apachelogger> forward/back do not work reliably	
[18:42] <Tonio_> apachelogger: that's why there are so many issues numbered 2XXXXX
[18:42] <apachelogger> kaffeine doesn't show controls if i use gstreamer library
[18:42] <Tonio_> apachelogger: is it time to revu it completly to convince me ?
[18:42] <Tonio_> apachelogger: it is alpha status, receives lots of fixes right now
[18:42] <Tonio_> and we have 5 month to decide :)
[18:43] <apachelogger> fixes for regressions
[18:43] <apachelogger> I am quite sure kaffeine will fall apart again
[18:43] <apachelogger> just like the KDE 3 version did
[18:43] <apachelogger> and no-one cared
[18:43] <apachelogger> no one from kubuntu anyway
[18:43] <Tonio_> apachelogger: hu ????
[18:44] <Tonio_> I cared, but we had no other alternative
[18:44] <Tonio_> apachelogger: and the point it got unmaintained was kde4 in the wait
[18:44] <apachelogger> the fact that I had to go somewhat-shoot the codec installer patch looping after months of it being known doesn't really help with my opinion of kaffeine
[18:44] <Tonio_> apachelogger: we have another proper way to do it now
[18:44] <Tonio_> apachelogger: nothing to do with the app itself, really
[18:44] <apachelogger> well
[18:45] <apachelogger> that does not change the fact that no one cared
[18:45] <Tonio_> apachelogger: and the team grown up considerably since then :)
[18:45] <Tonio_> apachelogger: it nobody cares of kaffeine, nobody would care dragonplayer
[18:45] <Tonio_> apachelogger: that's our issue, nothing to do with the default app choice
[18:46] <apachelogger> well
[18:46] <Tonio_> apachelogger: you hate it, that's all :)
[18:46] <apachelogger> who exactly triaged the kaffeine bugs?
[18:46] <Tonio_> apachelogger: I love it, that's also true
[18:46] <Tonio_> apachelogger: nobody triaged *anything* by that time
[18:46] <apachelogger> right, that is why we have a pretty good picture of the issues in that app
[18:46] <Tonio_> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/k3b
[18:47] <Tonio_> another example ? ;)
[18:47] <apachelogger> k3b does a lot more stuff than kaffeine, doesn't it?
[18:47] <apachelogger> anyway
[18:47] <apachelogger> go take a vote at the meeting
[18:47] <Tonio_> hum... it has a lot more bugs declared too
[18:49] <Tonio_> JontheEchidna: we should consider patching both dragonplayer and amarok to propose codec installation
[18:49] <Tonio_> JontheEchidna: I'll do that
[18:50] <JontheEchidna> Tonio_: Both do that already
[18:50] <Tonio_> JontheEchidna: really ? okay
[18:50] <Tonio_> great then
[18:50] <JontheEchidna> yeah, they do a dbus call to update-notifier-kde
[18:50]  * apachelogger still notes that this should be in phonon
[18:50] <JontheEchidna> which does all the heavy lifting
[18:51] <Tonio_> JontheEchidna: dragon does, not kaffeine, no patch for that atm...
[18:52] <Tonio_> JontheEchidna: I'll do the patch as well as a bzr branch for kaffeine
[18:52] <JontheEchidna> cool
[18:52] <Tonio_> JontheEchidna: wheter or not we ship it by default :)
[18:52] <JontheEchidna> yay, autosync is back online
[18:53] <JontheEchidna> If we could get our docpaths reconciled we could probaby even sync several more packages
[18:54] <Tonio_> JontheEchidna: my k3b patch is incomplete, fixing this
[18:58] <Tonio_> JontheEchidna: is it better to patch in the mainwindow thing or just main.cpp ?
[18:59] <Tonio_> JontheEchidna: I tend to think main.cpp is fine for that... but dragon doesn't do in there, so...
[18:59] <JontheEchidna> Tonio_: I dunno, I think agateau did the patches so you might try asking him
[18:59] <Tonio_> JontheEchidna: I'll test, that's even more simple :)
[19:00] <JontheEchidna> or that :) I just don't really know anything specific about the implementation :P
[19:17] <nixternal> is anyone working on the kdevplatform && kdevelop packages? if not, I am doing so now so I can play around, but will upload to a PPA if necessary
[19:19] <JontheEchidna> nixternal: the latest beta has been uploaded for a few days now ;-)
[19:19] <nixternal> groovy, where at?
[19:19] <nixternal> just to karmic?
[19:19] <JontheEchidna> yeah, no backports yet
[19:19] <nixternal> roger that
[19:19] <nixternal> maybe it is time to go ahead and dist-upgrade to karmic anyways
[19:20]  * nixternal does that
[19:20] <JontheEchidna> I've found it to be pretty stable
[19:20] <JontheEchidna> (karmic, not tried kdevelop that much)
[19:22] <Tonio_> JontheEchidna: yeah, except from a couple of plasma crashes, as usual :)
[19:22] <JontheEchidna> for an alpha it is pretty impressive though :D
[19:23] <JontheEchidna> my only crash with plasma has been when you hover over the startup task of an app in the taskbar
[19:32] <Tonio_> JontheEchidna: yeah quite impressive I agree :)
[19:39] <JontheEchidna> Riddell: after bug 382508 we can drop our conflicts/replaces on libkipi0 and libkipi5 for libkipi6
[19:39] <apachelogger> tonio__: http://aplg.kollide.net/tmp/kaffeine-improved.tar.lzma
[19:39] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: upgrades?
[19:39] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: also, why are they conflicting anyway?
[19:40] <JontheEchidna> because they install files to the same locations
[19:40] <apachelogger> well
[19:40] <apachelogger> shouldn't those file be sonamed?
[19:40] <apachelogger> i.e. not conflicting
[19:40] <JontheEchidna> iirc there were also some common files that caused conflicts
[19:40] <apachelogger> ohhh
[19:41] <apachelogger> icons
[19:41] <apachelogger> hm
[19:41] <apachelogger> bad packaging IMHO
[19:41] <JontheEchidna> libkipi5 is NBS and gone in karmic, so update-manager should blast that during upgrades at least
[19:41] <tonio__> apachelogger: what's in there ? I'm on osx right now and cannot test :)
[19:41] <apachelogger> that should be in a -data package to begin with
[19:41] <apachelogger> tonio__: a bit improved GUI
[19:41] <tonio__> what did you change ? I'll had the patches later if needed
[19:41] <apachelogger> remove auido related crap
[19:41] <apachelogger> start tab
[19:42] <apachelogger> cleanedup playlist tab
[19:42] <apachelogger> would need a lot more work though
[19:42] <Tonio_> kk I'll test and let you know
[19:42] <apachelogger> television -> configure television
[19:42] <apachelogger> while there is settings -> one lonely entry
[19:43] <apachelogger> Tonio_: beware there is a scaling bug with the view widget due to lack of start tab :D
[19:43] <apachelogger> disappears after tab switch
[19:44] <Tonio_> apachelogger: hum... I don't see the point with removing the start tab anyway
[19:44] <apachelogger> useless
[19:44] <Tonio_> apachelogger: cause you only see it when starting the program outside of the "I opened a file" context
[19:44] <apachelogger> ultimately it should be merged with the playback tab
[19:44] <apachelogger> it shouldn't be there
[19:44] <apachelogger> not at all :P
[19:45] <Tonio_> apachelogger: I'll check your changes
[19:46]  * apachelogger finds it stupid that the playlist is a tab
[19:46] <apachelogger> or rather that the playback is
[20:02] <maco> hello boys & girls
[20:03] <maco> (hrm...that greeting sounds silly @ my age. will file for 15 years down the road)
[20:05] <nixternal> karmic upgrade was painless
[20:06] <maco> lucky
[20:06] <maco> my xmonad & system-config-printer-kde broke
[20:07] <nixternal> how did xmonad break for you?
[20:07] <nixternal> xmonad is running like a champ on my other laptop
[20:07] <Tonio_> nixternal: hum what is xmoned ?
[20:07] <nixternal> did you have any non-standard haskell configs?
[20:07] <nixternal> Tonio_: tiling window manager
[20:08] <Tonio_> kk
[20:08] <nixternal> the best tiling window manager imho
[20:08] <Tonio_> rebooting on linux :)
[20:08] <maco> my xmonad config is busted
[20:08] <maco> Plasma's not floating anymore :(
[20:08] <maco> and i cant fix it because ghc packages are still up in the air, so it cant be recompiled
[20:08] <nixternal> plasma in xmonad?
[20:09] <maco> aye
[20:09] <maco> Plasma keeps tiling
[20:09] <nixternal> http://www.nixternal.com/pics/xmonad.png
[20:09] <maco> like when i open the network manager or if i open the menu
[20:09] <nixternal> need to update that screenshot, but it is the same, except it says Karmic instead of Jaunty now
[20:10] <maco> i'm just using xmonad to replace kwin...ive still got the rest
[20:10] <nixternal> ahh, I am using just xmonad
[20:10] <nixternal> like the name of my lappy? OneSip :)
[20:10] <nixternal> One Sip of Tequila!
[20:11] <nixternal> one sip and you'll surrender, one sip and you will fall
[20:11] <Tonio_> apachelogger: can you repaste me the link please ?
[20:11] <nixternal> Tonio_: http://www.nixternal.com/pics/xmonad.png <- that's my xmonad there
[20:11] <nixternal> though I don't really use the tiling features all that much
[20:12] <nixternal> but I don't use a mouse either with it :)
[20:12] <Tonio_> nixternal: wow, geeky for sure :)
[20:13] <nixternal> if you are just writing code all day, xmonad is the way to go...nothing gets in your way, nothing flashy to distract you, and it is pretty damn fast
[20:13] <Tonio_> nixternal: I can understand that
[20:13] <nixternal> though, I should really try getting used to kdevelop as it has so much hype behind it
[20:14] <nixternal> and for some reason, I can't create ctags with the kde libs, every other lib no problem, but kde libs are just all over /usr/include instead of being in a nice /usr/include/kde
[20:14] <nixternal> just the defs are in */kde
[20:14] <Tonio_> does the networkmanager connect wireless for karmic users ? seems to be broken here
[20:14]  * nixternal tries now
[20:15] <Tonio_> nixternal: can you repaste me nixternal's link please ?
[20:15] <Tonio_> apachelogger's link, sorry
[20:16] <nixternal> am I still online?
[20:16] <JontheEchidna> nixternal: yus
[20:16] <maco> doesnt work for me
[20:16] <maco> at least not with WPA
[20:16] <nixternal> works for me
[20:16] <nixternal> if I am still online of course
[20:17] <nixternal> had to close my ssh tab and reconnect there, but I am connected to screen at least :)
[20:18] <nixternal> hrmm
[20:18] <Mamarok> Tonio_: what link do you want?
[20:18] <Tonio_> Mamarok: the kaffeine link apachelogger posted 10 minutes ago :) I lost the history
[20:18] <Mamarok> Tonio_: http://aplg.kollide.net/tmp/kaffeine-improved.tar.lzma
[20:18] <Tonio_> Mamarok: thanks
[20:19] <Mamarok> yaw :)
[20:21] <maco> nixternal, are you using wpa too?
[20:26] <nixternal> no
[20:33] <maco> so im guessing its wpa thats broken
[20:41] <Tscheesy_> nixternal: jjesse - heard you're working on the Revision for kubuntu-docs ? they urgently need to be adopted to kde4 - tough there will be translation-work after
[20:44] <jjesse> Tscheesy: yes i am working on the kubuntu docs
[20:44] <nixternal> CMake Error at /usr/share/kde4/apps/cmake/modules/FindPhonon.cmake:59 (message): Phonon library or includes NOT found!
[20:44] <nixternal> what am I missing here?
[20:44] <nixternal> libqt4-phonon-dev is installed
[20:44] <Tscheesy_> may i could give a hand ?
[20:46] <Quintasan> lol @ topic
[20:46] <JontheEchidna> nixternal: I had that problem too. I had to reinstall either libqt4-phonon-dev or kdelibs5-dev
[20:49]  * nixternal tries kdelibs5-dev as he just installed libqt4-phonon-dev and that didn't fix it
[20:50] <nixternal> that didn't fix it either
[20:52] <nixternal> well son of a biznatch....it did work :p
[20:52] <JontheEchidna> heh
[21:06] <Tonio_> apachelogger: you've been removing any dvd entry for kaffeine ? :)
[21:06] <Tonio_> apachelogger:
[21:06] <Tonio_> -	menu->addAction(collection->addAction("file_play_dvd", action));
[21:06] <Tonio_> +// 	menu->addAction(collection->addAction("file_play_dvd", action));
[21:07] <Tonio_> sounds a little extremist no ?
[21:07] <Tonio_> especially since you remove the start menu
[21:17] <Mamarok> problem: somebody disabled the password reminder for kpackagekit in 4.2.2 and can't get it back now, where do I have to look for that reminder option?
[21:17] <Tonio_> Mamarok:
[21:18] <Tonio_> did you dist-upgrade within my ppa ?
[21:18] <Tonio_> Mamarok: I think kpackagekit is broken there :)
[21:18] <Tm_T> yeah, never use Tonio's PPA (;)
[21:18] <Mamarok> Tonio_: not me, a support question in #kubuntu
[21:19] <Tonio_> Mamarok: if the authentication works for you go check in systemsettings/advanced/policykit stuff
[21:19] <Tonio_> Tm_T: bah that's for testing purpose :)
[21:19] <Tm_T> Tonio_: I know, I'm just kidding
[21:20] <Tonio_> Tm_T: :)
[21:20]  * Nightrose hugs Tonio_ for giving her a kaffeine package
[21:20] <Nightrose> works nicely here after not starting when i first tried to start it
[21:20]  * Tonio_ loves hugs
[21:20] <Nightrose> not sure what the problem was but worked after i started it from command line
[21:20] <Tonio_> Nightrose: hum weird indeed
[21:21] <Tonio_> missing kaffeinerc file ?
[21:21] <Tonio_> in any case I'll add one to kds
[21:21] <Nightrose> no idea - i installed it - tried to start it two times from kickoff which didn't work - then from konsole which worked
[21:21] <Nightrose> after that kickoff worked too
[21:21] <Nightrose> might be nothing - needs more testing
[21:22] <Nightrose> what is strange is that i didn't even get the bouncy icon i usually have when apps atart
[21:23] <Tonio_> Nightrose: within the command line that normal
[21:24] <Nightrose> Tonio_: yea but nothing from kickoff either during my first two tries
[21:25] <Tonio_> Nightrose: packaging issue due to kde4.mk, no kbuildsycoca4 ran postinst
[21:25] <Tonio_> Nightrose: no big deal :)
[21:25] <Nightrose> hmmm wonder why it showed up in kickoff at all then
[21:26] <Nightrose> doesn't it usually not get shown there when one forgets to run kbuildsycoca?
[21:26] <Tonio_> cause kbuildsycoca4 rans un the background regularly
[21:26] <Nightrose> ahhhh
[21:26] <Nightrose> ok
[21:26] <Tonio_> I think every 5 minutes
[21:26] <Tonio_> but I'm not sure on that pont
[21:26] <Tonio_> point
[21:26] <Nightrose> k
[21:35] <Tonio_> Riddell: about the plasma containment content, do we want to use kde defaults ?
[21:35] <Tonio_> Riddell: it would be nice to at least add th trash applet in there...
[21:38] <Tonio_> Riddell: http://planetemu.net/temp/plasma.png
[21:38] <Tonio_> Riddell: I'd propose this as a replacement, modulo, removing the network-manager and the battery icon by default, of course...
[21:39] <Tonio_> or even just removing the the battery (networkmanager is fine for desktops too)
[21:39] <Tonio_> Riddell: any opinion ?
[21:54] <nixternal> go cowbuild go!
[21:56]  * Tonio_ trying the googledata backend for kontact
[21:56] <neversfelde> does not work for me, at least the contacts
[21:56] <neversfelde> calendar seems to be ok
[21:59] <Tonio_> neversfelde: ok is there a package somewhere you know off ?
[22:00] <neversfelde> Tonio_: no, I packaged it by myself, but it is not in a good state
[22:01] <Tonio_> kk
[22:03] <Tonio_> neversfelde: it's an akonadi resource or a kresource at the moment ?
[22:03] <neversfelde> Tonio_: I think an akonadi ressource, you have to add it via the akonadi configuration in systemsettings
[22:04] <neversfelde> I am looking forward to this, because in combination with funambol, I could sync my s60 smartphone
[22:05] <Tonio_> neversfelde: funambol is crap
[22:05] <Tonio_> neversfelde: synthesys just released their syncml client library
[22:05] <Tonio_> neversfelde: I planned to contact kdepim devs to get their syncml plans
[22:05] <neversfelde> is it? I am using it and it works very good, with outlook, s60, thunderbird etc.
[22:05] <Tonio_> neversfelde: also you can use goosync to sync nokia and google within syncml
[22:06] <Tonio_> neversfelde: you pay once, account for life
[22:06] <Tonio_> neversfelde: I pretty much like it
[22:06] <Tonio_> neversfelde: yeah, funambol isn't standard syncml
[22:06] <Tonio_> neversfelde: so unless you have a specific implementation of funambol, it's unlikelly to work with contact
[22:06] <Tonio_> a standard syncml client will have problems
[22:07] <neversfelde> mhh, I do not want to use an external service although I could accept google for a while
[22:07] <neversfelde> Tonio_: if opensync gets released sometime, it should support funambol syncs
[22:07] <Tonio_> neversfelde: http://www.synthesis.ch/indefero/index.php/p/libsynthesis/
[22:07] <neversfelde> I even testes funambol with evolution and it works
[22:08] <Tonio_> neversfelde: I really think this and akonadi would do the trick
[22:08] <Tonio_> neversfelde: see http://www.google.fr/search?hl=fr&client=firefox-a&rls=com.ubuntu%3Aen-US%3Aunofficial&hs=pkZ&q=libsynthesis+akonadi&btnG=Rechercher&meta=
[22:08] <neversfelde> oh SyncEvolution, that works with funambol too :)
[22:09] <Riddell> Tonio_: what were you asking about plasma containments?
[22:09] <Tonio_> neversfelde: yeah and it uses this lib :)
[22:09] <neversfelde> very good
[22:09] <Tonio_> Riddell: we have no file in kds for the content of the bar
[22:09] <Tonio_> Riddell: that's why we're missing the trash icon...
[22:09] <neversfelde> syncing smartphones and similar devices is really importan for a business user
[22:09] <Tonio_> neversfelde: yeah, I'mm looking into akonadi on that point :) would be nice to have a real and syncml client for kde
[22:10] <neversfelde> in deed
[22:10] <Tonio_> Riddell: I'd like to propose this as default structure for the bar : http://planetemu.net/temp/plasma.png
[22:11] <Tonio_> Riddell: any opinion ?
[22:11] <maco> i'd like to +1 the Kicker icon Tonio_ mentioned earlier
[22:11] <Riddell> Tonio_: we patch kdebase-workspace with kubuntu_71_default_plasma_layout.diff  the config file in k-d-s caused too many problems
[22:12] <Tonio_> Riddell: ok
[22:13] <Tonio_> Riddell: I'll investigate to know why there's no trash applet then :)
[22:13] <Tonio_> Riddell: also I'd like to think a little bit about the content of it...
[22:13] <Tonio_> the show workspace icon seems pretty useless to me
[22:13] <Riddell> we don't have trash because our panel is crowded enough, trash isn't actually useful since you can delete files from directly within dolphin easier
[22:13] <Tonio_> ok
[22:14] <Riddell> how else do you see your plasma widgets without show workspace?
[22:14] <Tonio_> in fact it would be nice to get the networkmanager and battery in the systray
[22:14] <Tonio_> Riddell: ctrl + f12
[22:14] <Riddell> it would be nice to get them in the systray, but that would need code written
[22:14] <Tonio_> yes
[22:15] <Riddell> ctrl+F12 doesn't do anything for me and isn't discoverable
[22:15] <Tonio_> Riddell: seems default shortcuts were changed indeed, it used to work for me before
[22:16] <Tonio_> hum well all of that makes sense, but I'm not satisfied with what it is now :) I'll try to rethink that all (not pushing any change of course)
[22:16] <maco> Riddell, you can modify the pager, i think
[22:16] <maco> it has an option to show desktop if you click on the workspace you're already on
[22:16] <JontheEchidna> once QuickAccess 0.9 is released you'll be able to move stuff to the trash directly from quickaccess
[22:16] <Tonio_> we should hide some systray entries by default (wallet for example)
[22:17] <maco> modify = "configure differently" not "change code"
[22:17] <JontheEchidna> also I made a new upstream release while you guys were at UDS for fixing QuickAccess's icon
[22:17] <Tonio_> Riddell: yeah sure
[22:17] <JontheEchidna> (the icon name changed in 4.3)
[22:18] <JontheEchidna> bug 381142
[22:20] <Tonio_> hum duplicate entry in both plasma and plasma-workspace shotcuts
[22:20] <Tonio_> that's why it doesn't work
[22:20] <Riddell> Tonio_: mm, I think we should get rid of the kwallet systray applet
[22:21] <Tonio_> Riddell: hide it completly ?
[22:22] <maco> yesh
[22:22] <neversfelde> it is somehow dangerous to have it open in the tray, so it would be good to remove it
[22:23] <Tonio_> Riddell, maco: how can you clean datas in it if needed ? if it's still possible, then I have no problem changing this
[22:26] <neversfelde> Tonio_: you can start kwalletmanager from the menu
[22:26] <Mamarok> sometimes we get this in #kubuntu:
[22:26] <Mamarok> 23:25 < tuxmania> Hi, really like what you guys has done with jaunty jackalope and KDE4, thanks all
[22:26] <Tonio_> neversfelde: yeah true
[22:27] <Riddell> Tonio_: you can access kwallet manager from the k-menu
[22:27] <Tonio_> Riddell: yup, I'm fixing kds right now
[22:27] <Riddell> Tonio_: but kwallet systray gets hidden by default in 4.3 which suggests to me that it's not actually any use
[22:28] <Tonio_> Riddell: in any case we force it to show in the systray through kds, I removed that
[22:29] <maco> umm my plasma*rc files didnt change. will investigate while on bus
[22:31] <Riddell> Tonio_: if you're in a k-d-s mood could you turn off Obey DRM Restrictions in okular ?
[22:32] <Tonio_> Riddell: sure
[22:32] <Tonio_> Riddell: I wanted not to change anything in kds for jaunty waiting for our kde intregration to get mature
[22:33] <Tonio_> Riddell: I'll try to improve things a bit this cycle, without diverging too much from upstream setings
[22:39] <Tonio_> Riddell: done bzr
[22:44] <Riddell> groovy
[22:46] <nixternal> why doesn't --save-after-login work with pbuilder-dist login?
[22:46] <nixternal> trying to save mirror changes for my sid pbuilder
[22:46] <freinhard> you guys are really fast, 4.2.4 in experimental, great!
[22:46] <nixternal> ftp.debian.org == to slow for me
[22:50] <Riddell> freinhard: sssh, it's secret
[23:00] <seaLne> 4.3b2 would be more impressive ;)
[23:05] <Riddell> next week.  these releases just keep on coming!
[23:05] <freinhard> right, columns in kmail would be great
[23:15] <yuriy> ahh, finally back
[23:16] <Tonio_> neversfelde: ping ?
[23:16] <neversfelde> Tonio_: pong
[23:16] <Tonio_> neversfelde: what is your google data package content please ?
[23:16] <Tonio_> I just get 2 binaries who don't seem to work as expected....
[23:17] <Tonio_> neversfelde: http://pastebin.ca/1444142
[23:18] <Tonio_> neversfelde: looks like I'm missing something :)
[23:19] <neversfelde> Tonio_: did you add them with akonadi-kde ?
[23:19] <Tonio_> neversfelde: I don't see them
[23:20] <Tonio_> neversfelde: I have no binary called like that...
[23:20] <neversfelde> Tonio_: http://pastebin.ca/1444145
[23:21] <Tonio_> okay same as me then
[23:21] <neversfelde> after installing there are tow new akonadi ressources
[23:21] <neversfelde> Google Calendar and Google Contacts
[23:23] <Tonio_> neversfelde: contcts work for me
[23:24] <Tonio_> neversfelde: I don't see the google contacts
[23:24] <neversfelde> mhh, it did not sync here, I will test it again
[23:25] <Tonio_> right it all seems to work for me
[23:25] <neversfelde> nice :)
[23:25] <Tonio_> just that we don't install akonadi-kde by default....
[23:25] <Tonio_> I don't know if there is a reason for this...
[23:26] <yuriy> we used to, I think, in the intrepid 4.2 ppa.  maybe that's why my resources are missing
[23:31] <Tonio_> neversfelde: except from akonadi is relativelly unstable with kontact, it seems to work
[23:31] <Tonio_> neversfelde: doing a nice package then :)
[23:32] <neversfelde> my kontact is not starting anymore
[23:32] <neversfelde> thats not so good :)
[23:32] <Tonio_> neversfelde: ouch...
[23:32] <Tonio_> the only thing is that akonadi currently has absolutly resource.... I don't know if that's normal
[23:32] <Tonio_> Riddell: did we drop them on purpose ?
[23:33] <neversfelde> as long as kmail works, everything is ok
[23:34] <Tonio_> :)
[23:34] <Riddell> Tonio_: no, it should be on the CD I think
[23:35] <Tonio_> Riddell: okay, I might have removed it
[23:35] <neversfelde> I had to install it manually, too
[23:35] <Tonio_> Riddell: since we don't have any other packages providing sources atm, how would you name the package ?
[23:36] <Tonio_> Riddell: akonadi-resource-google sounds ok, no ?
[23:36] <neversfelde> probably akonadi-ressource-googledata ?
[23:36] <neversfelde> :)
[23:36] <Tonio_> or googledata...
[23:38] <neversfelde> wb kontact
[23:45]  * shtylman has a working kde4 file picker for opening files in openoffice (no filters yet) ... but the cool part...its not a separate app like the old method...this one is built into the oo app like a proper file picker :)