[07:55] <SiDi> hi
[09:47] <robsta> morning
[09:48] <robsta> ping kwwii
[10:00] <SiDi> hi
[10:19] <thorwil> moin!
[10:19] <robsta> hey thorwil
[10:26] <SiDi> hi thorwil
[10:26]  * thorwil traces outlines for a freelance job
[13:00] <SiDi> kwwii, ping ^^
[13:10] <kwwii> SiDi: pong
[13:10] <SiDi> What's up ?
[13:10] <kwwii> reading through and ansering emails on the list
[13:13] <knome> any regexp wizard? :P
[13:21] <kwwii> mat_t: did you see this: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Karmic/Numerals ?
[13:22] <SiDi> kwwii, when did u find the time to visit all barcelona ? Oo
[13:22] <SiDi> knome, tell me i'm meant to have studied them :d
[13:23] <kwwii> SiDi: I spent 10 hours one day doing nothing but walking around and taking pictures :p
[13:23] <SiDi> kwwii, wow :p
[13:23] <SiDi> there were even places i didnt know myself :[
[13:24] <kwwii> ;)
[13:24] <SiDi> why didnt you make a sexy photo of the whole front of the sagrada familia by the evening ?
[13:24] <SiDi> its awesome :P
[13:25] <kwwii> knome: what's the problem?
[13:25] <kwwii> hehe, I didn't like the way it looked with the cranes behind it
[13:25] <knome> nothing anymore, except php not understanding my preg string :P
[13:25] <SiDi> Are those animal photos from the Zoo of barcelona ?
[13:25] <kwwii> I took a lot more pics than I posted
[13:25] <kwwii> no, they are from a farm here in bavaria
[13:26] <SiDi> oh okey
[13:26] <SiDi> none of you ever saw the white gorilla of Barcelona ? :P
[13:28] <kwwii> nope, I missed that#
[13:34] <SiDi> thats a shame
[13:34] <SiDi> was the last one in the world, and he's dead now
[13:37] <SiDi> kwwii, btw, did you talk to the author of the notify-osd icons about the battery ones i made ?
[13:43] <kwwii> SiDi: not yet, I was still hoping to get a response on the font link I posted earlier
[13:43] <kwwii> SiDi: mat_t is the person you want to talk to :)
[13:44] <SiDi> the font link ?
[13:44] <SiDi> mat_t, ping ? :D
[13:50] <robsta> hi kwwii
[13:56] <kwwii> robsta: hey
[14:05] <mat_t> SiDi, hi :)
[14:08] <SiDi> hello mat_t
[14:08] <SiDi> Do you mind having a look at https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-art/2009-May/010514.html please ?
[14:09] <mat_t> sure
[14:11] <SiDi> Cheers
[14:11] <mat_t> np - looking now
[14:14] <mat_t> SiDi, where would these icons be used?
[14:15] <SiDi> in gnome-power-manager and xfce4-power-manager's battery state notifications when the user presses XF86Power
[14:15] <SiDi> currently gpm shows the generic "info" icon (the one like a light bulb)
[14:15] <SiDi> and xpm shows the panel's battery icon
[14:16] <SiDi> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Specifications/Karmic/NotifyOsd Example here
[14:19] <mat_t> SiDi, it's nice, but we don't want to use green or yellow - the decision was to use grayscale + red (for warnings) only
[14:19] <SiDi> even very desatured green / yellow ? :]
[14:19] <mat_t> yeah :)
[14:19] <SiDi> :[
[14:19] <mat_t> the battery can still change
[14:20] <SiDi> and what if i make those in black & white then ? :p
[14:20] <mat_t> that would be cool
[14:20] <SiDi> (and maybe some pink for the midlow one :p)
[14:20] <SiDi> btw, these notifications are normally triggered by the user himself (unless low on battery -> warning case)
[14:20] <SiDi> so there shouldnt be such a "drawing attention from focus" problem
[14:21] <mat_t> sure - we don't want to create exceptions though
[14:25] <SiDi> Okey
[14:25] <SiDi> Give me a few mins for a black n white version then ^^
[14:25] <mat_t> thx :)
[14:27] <SiDi> For the middle low (~30%) one, am i allowed to have ~10% red or not ? :p
[14:28] <mat_t> SiDi - the red should only appear when the panel icon turns red
[14:28] <mat_t> so that we have a consistent message
[14:28] <SiDi> Okey
[14:38] <SiDi> mat_t, http://filebin.ca/bfejfq/notification-battery_0.2.tar.gz here it is
[14:39] <kwwii> funny, you both sat across the table from each other last week and I bet you didn't even know it :p
[14:39] <SiDi> We didnt :D
[14:40] <SiDi> c'mon, im sure you still dont know wht i look like kwwii :D
[14:42] <SiDi> btw, i thought about these icons the day after art session :X
[14:43] <kwwii> SiDi: honestly, I don't :p
[14:43] <kwwii> I just repackaged them for the breathe team, so it is much easier to make changes
[14:46] <mat_t> SiDi, thx, looking now
[14:59] <mat_t> SiDi, cool, would be good to test against the bubble background as well
[15:00] <mat_t> see how the inside part work against dark background
[15:04] <macvr> kwwii: hi, regarding the network manager icons for breathe... have to checked the screenshots of the icons? or do u still need to see the icons with light/dark backgrounds?
[15:05] <macvr> U^
[15:06] <kwwii> macvr: to be honest, I was still trying to find the email with the attachment :p I found several others in the meantime ;)
[15:06] <kwwii> but not the one I wanted
[15:06] <macvr> kwwii: wait..
[15:08] <SiDi> mat_t, gonna make a vid, sec
[15:08] <macvr> kwwii: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-art/2009-June/010582.html
[15:10] <kwwii> macvr: thanks
[15:10] <kwwii> macvr: I think that the light version seems to need more definition and better antialiasing
[15:11] <kwwii> the slight curve is hard to do right at that size
[15:11] <macvr> kwwii: no they are all the same version on different panel backgrounds...only the dark is a bit darker
[15:12] <macvr> kwwii: yeah , the lower most bar is not a curve at the bottom :P
[15:13] <kwwii> macvr: one thing to think of is the use of color...we are trying to limit the use of color in the panel to make it more effective
[15:14] <macvr> kwwii: oh , no... the lack of color in win7 looks unattractive :(
[15:16] <kwwii> I would aruge that the need to show an icon for connection at all is a bug and that the use of the icon is for informative purposes. Ideally all of this would be transparent to the user so we would be correct to move in the direction of less is more
[15:18] <macvr> kwwii:but dont u think that the user would want to know tht status of the signal, and be notified about the strength if he moves away? right now the only notification he gets is if the signal is lost, if u take out the icon " for wireless" that would be bad, maybe ethernet is not needed... still i dont think this color is too much of a distractor .
[15:20] <kwwii> the bars already represent strenght, why does it need color as well?
[15:20] <macvr> kwwii: and we still havent removed the icon, so breathe might require one atleast then :)
[15:21] <macvr> kwwii: well for the lower signals, the red/yellow color is a quick indicator.
[15:21] <kwwii> macvr: sure, breathe is free to do as it pleases
[15:22] <SiDi> Damn, 5 minutes for uploading  a poor video
[15:22] <kwwii> red=problem to me
[15:23] <macvr> kwwii: yup, low signal sometimes leads to poor transfers, so i think it is a problem.
[15:23] <kwwii> poor != problem
[15:23] <kwwii> none = problem
[15:23] <SiDi> i must agree with kwwii
[15:24] <kwwii> lol, I give up on trying to sound intelligent
[15:24] <SiDi> im always on low signals
[15:24] <SiDi> cause im in public places
[15:24] <macvr> kwwii: oh... ok. so which color would be ideal for low signal? yellow?
[15:25] <SiDi> no color, macvr :)
[15:25] <macvr> SiDi: :(
[15:25] <SiDi> a low signal is a normal thing. When it goes at 20/30 % there begin the connectivity problems
[15:25] <SiDi> but anything above is just a bit slow, but its normal in many cases
[15:26] <kwwii> I think that signal strength doesn't need a color
[15:26] <macvr> SiDi: the red is usedfor 25%
[15:26] <macvr> kwwii: ok.. , i just thought that the old hi-color uses blue for all , so wanted to spice it up... :P
[15:26] <kwwii> the connection animation might use red and green to denote that a connection was established or not...the red is also good for when you lose connection
[15:26] <SiDi> http://filebin.ca/ctrxoj/out-1.ogv mat_t
[15:27] <kwwii> everything else is just overkill, if you ask me
[15:27] <kwwii> going online is not the momentous occasion it used to be :9
[15:28] <macvr> kwwii: yup..!
[15:28] <macvr> kwwii: but if u guys do the icon in greyscale it would look exactly like the win7 wireless icons :(
[15:29] <SiDi> oh btw macvr during the connection animations, do you make the distinction between the connection part and the DHCP query part ?
[15:29] <macvr> SiDi: ya
[15:29] <SiDi> macvr, not our fault if they copy our genious ideas :p
[15:30] <macvr> SiDi: but we still havent implemented it... have we? so they walk away being the genius!
[15:30] <SiDi> macvr, i cant recall of microsoft having voluntarily made a good usability choice
[15:30] <macvr> kwwii: i was mentioning the greyscale of the present wireless hi-color icons
[15:31] <macvr> SiDi: they never did , nor will they ever!
[15:31] <kwwii> well, simple indicators are what they are
[15:31] <kwwii> simple
[15:31] <kwwii> there is little creativity in showing the levels of something with so few pixels
[15:31] <mat_t> SiDi, looks great
[15:31] <SiDi> good :]
[15:31] <mat_t> :)
[15:32] <macvr> kwwii: what about greyscale of the ones i'v made?
[15:32] <kwwii> macvr: well, I stil think the form needs slight improvements
[15:32] <macvr> kwwii: ok.
[15:32] <kwwii> but otherwise, nice
[15:36] <macvr> SiDi: <rant>M$ is so horrible! that they do not provide the transparent windows borders when it can easily be done by a simple uxtheme modifications! i feel the only reason they are not doing it is just to sell more of the ultimate version! <rant>
[15:36] <SiDi> of course, what do you think ? they wanted the netbook edition not to be able to run more than an app at a time
[15:36] <macvr> kwwii: ok... i'll see if i can make one in greyscale... :)
[15:37] <SiDi> I dont know if they count their endless popup messages and such as apps though
[15:37] <macvr> SiDi: 3
[15:37] <macvr> SiDi: but that seems to have been scrapped!, also they are adding the size limit!
[15:37] <macvr> for netbooks
[15:42] <macvr> kwwii: would the icons looking like the notify-osd be fine for the panel as well?
[15:43] <kwwii> macvr: well, the forms yes, but not the style as it would be too weak on certain backgrounds
[15:45] <macvr> kwwii: yup... i was asking for the form... didnt want to do a lot of work for this curved style and not be used !
[15:45] <SiDi> macvr, its things that happen though :P
[15:46] <macvr> SiDi: got to get used to it :P
[15:47] <kwwii> macvr: ideally, whatever we present in the panel would use the same metaphor as what is used in the notifications (or elsewhere, for that matter)
[15:48] <macvr> kwwii: actually that was what was discussed in the mailing list... but i thought of using these icons in the notifications :P
[15:51] <kwwii> macvr: right, unfortunately, I was somewhat away from my email last week and the breathe discussion didn't get noticed until I returned home
[15:52] <kwwii> having time to discuss things directly in irc works much better than email :)
[15:52] <kwwii> well, for some things
[16:00] <macvr> does anyone know what "unset" for the fill and stroke means? since i'm new to inkscape
[16:02] <SiDi> Dunno, got it in french here :]
[16:02] <kwwii> it means remove it
[16:02] <kwwii> or there is no fill/stroke
[16:03] <kwwii> where do you see that?
[16:03] <macvr> kwwii: how come it will say there is no fill/stroke even thought the colors are displayed? i'm checking the notify-osd icons
[16:03] <SiDi> Oo
[16:04] <kwwii> macvr: which one specifically? I'll open it and then we can figure this out
[16:04] <macvr> all
[16:04] <macvr> wireles
[16:07] <kwwii> macvr: ungroup things
[16:08] <kwwii> the groups themselves have no traits
[16:08] <kwwii> but the objects within them do
[16:08] <macvr> kwwii: ? how do i do that? u mean the borders and the bars?
[16:08] <kwwii> oh, and unset=black
[16:10] <kwwii> so there are elements with fills and stuff but the black stuff says "unset" which means it has a black fill by default in svg
[16:11] <macvr> kwwii: what is the benefit of unset rather than using the regular black fill/stroke?
[16:11] <kwwii> wow, those svgs are not very nice in an xml editor
[16:12] <kwwii> macvr: to be honest, I think that was done by a script to reduce the size of the svg
[16:13] <kwwii> for instance, in every svg there is a polka dot pattern
[16:13] <kwwii> freaky
[16:14] <kwwii> I really don't remember doing that
[16:14] <macvr> kwwii: ya i saw the dots :)
[16:15] <macvr> kwwii: ok... thanx...  will try to work on the icons ... it try to see if i can make the icons which display the curves in the greyscale[just to make sure it doesnt resemble M$ :P], but if not will make thme like regular bars :)
[16:16] <macvr> kwwii: also the panel icons need to be of the 22px?
[16:16] <kwwii> macvr: some are 22x22, some are 16x16
[16:16] <kwwii> depending on what you are working on
[16:17] <macvr> kwwii: the old high color are in 22px, i'll see what can be done... thanx
[16:18] <kwwii> macvr: right, I think they are 22x22 and the current ones are just padded 16x16 icons in a 22x22 image
[16:19] <macvr> kwwii: so for best usage? which size do i do?
[16:19] <kwwii> macvr: well, try it at 22 and see how it looks on the panel itself
[16:20] <kwwii> I think that 16x16 looks better because you have more paddign to the panel edge
[16:20] <kwwii> but depending on what the shape of the icon is this can vary
[16:20] <macvr> kwwii: could u explain that? if i wanted a curve?
[16:20] <kwwii> ie a 4px horizontal bar in the middle of the 22px icon has plenty of padding anyway :)
[16:21] <kwwii> it is an issue of vertical panel from the top and bottom of the icon to the edge
[16:21] <kwwii> see what looks best for the form you are using then make a decision and make them all that size
[16:21] <macvr> ok.
[16:44] <SiDi> mat_t, so, is there a chance to have those icons in Human, so that i can begin patching the power managers ?
[16:48] <mat_t> SiDi, sure, put them in \
[16:49] <mat_t> thanks - good work
[16:49] <SiDi>  i dont think i can put them anywhere myself :)
[16:49] <kwwii> SiDi: I can help you with that :)
[16:50] <SiDi> good ! :P
[16:50] <kwwii> SiDi: send me a tar.gz (or whatever) with your final versions per email and we can continue the discussion from there
[16:50] <SiDi> okey
[16:50] <SiDi> i'll do a few tweaks and make sure i vacuum the defs of the svg's then
[16:50] <kwwii> I am working on an update for the icon theme package currently anyway
[16:50] <SiDi> give me 10 mins :)
[16:51] <SiDi> any new icons planned ? :D
[16:51] <kwwii> no hurries, send me something by tomorrow or so
[16:51] <kwwii> for now I am trying to clean out the cruft
[16:51] <kwwii> things change so quickly without notice :)
[16:52] <kwwii> developers seem to like playing icon-name-bingo
[16:52] <SiDi> yeh :P
[16:53] <SiDi> the xfce icon names are.. weird
[17:01] <SiDi> oh, any idea whos responsible for the wiki themes ?
[17:02] <kwwii> well, it depends on which wiki
[17:02] <kwwii> the kubuntu people take care of their own theme, for instance
[17:03] <kwwii> but they are still using the one I made for them a long, long time ago :p
[17:05] <SiDi> well, any idea how to get started to make a theme ?
[17:05] <SiDi> i want one for the xubuntu wiki :D
[17:06] <knome> SiDi, ask me for help once you've started :P
[17:06] <SiDi> Cause the brown doesnt look sexy with our blue custom menu :P
[17:06] <SiDi> knome, no :p its my toy !
[17:06] <SiDi> you go design an usplash before i _really_ do what i said i'd do knome ;)
[17:07] <kwwii> time for a meeting
[17:27] <SiDi> oh btw, Human doesnt have the gpm-ups-xxx icons
[17:27] <SiDi> only the gpm-ups-xxx-charging
[18:44] <knome> SiDi, meh
[18:44] <SiDi> why
[18:44] <knome> ;)
[18:47] <SiDi> i wonder if i should go on karmic
[18:48] <knome> why not?
[18:48] <SiDi> cause i need to send a dmesg to a kernel.org guy with the very kernel i have now
[18:48] <SiDi> but i cant till im back home
[18:49] <SiDi> cause i'll need another machine to get the dmesg while this one is booted
[18:49] <SiDi> well
[18:49] <SiDi> long story :p
[18:49] <knome> hmh
[18:49] <knome> i need to go wash my hand
[18:49] <SiDi> my keyboard doesnt work with vanilla kernel
[18:49] <knome> a sneezed a bit too hard
[18:49] <SiDi> so i use some boot options
[18:50] <SiDi> and i gotta get a dmesg with a debug option but my keyboard's broken then ^^ so gotta ssh
[18:50] <SiDi> and got no ssh
[18:51] <knome> ehm
[19:08] <macvr> kwwii: are u there?
[19:09] <macvr> kwwii: i'v just tried a icon concept in the grey scale and sent it to the mailing list. could u check it out?
[19:46] <macvr> kwwii: ping!
[19:47] <SiDi> if he doesnt answer, you should give him some time instead of pinging him again and again :D
[19:48] <macvr> SiDi: it was nearly half hr so..
[19:48] <macvr> SiDi: did u check the mail?
[19:49] <SiDi> no :P
[19:49] <macvr> SiDi: could u check it out?
[19:51] <SiDi> that looks damn blur to me :/
[19:52] <macvr> he wanted a 24px size...
[19:52] <macvr> but even so... its is just a rough mockup... what do u think of the design?
[19:54] <macvr> SiDi: just made up that design, since the last time i was herein the irc ! i'm no way an expert to make a production ready icon in such a short time :P
[19:54] <SiDi> its not really usable as it is :P
[19:54] <macvr> noway
[19:54] <SiDi> i honnestly preferred it with colour
[19:54] <macvr> u cant use that, it has a background
[19:55] <SiDi> apart from that i meant
[19:55] <SiDi> i dont know if its the scaling + png rendering but they look both blur and aliased here :P
[19:55] <macvr> i too want color, but the team seems to want something that doesnt disturb!
[19:55] <SiDi> i guess its a price to pay for curved icons at size a resolution, but still
[19:55] <macvr> how do i do the antialaised?
[19:56] <SiDi> you cant really do it :p
[19:56] <macvr> oh...
[19:56] <SiDi> Ask kwwii if its possible to go for black & white & one unique colour as the current one
[19:56] <SiDi> cause white on dark background defo doesnt look nice to me. and i have tons of systray colorfull icons anyways :]
[19:58] <macvr> does he usually go off for hrs?
[20:00] <SiDi> He's got a social life too, you know :)
[20:00] <SiDi> and he works for Canonical
[20:01] <macvr> it would be useful if we know when he is away! and when online
[20:01] <SiDi> No privacy for him ?
[20:02] <macvr> i didnt mean thaat way :(
[22:49] <SiDi> dashua, friend request on *-look.org , you evil :[