dobeyvuntz: ping. so i totally forget what your feedback was for https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~dobey/intltool/intltoolize-version-magic other than recalling you suggested a possible change :-/03:27
robert_ancellracarr: hi06:56
=== pitti_ is now known as pitti
pittihello all08:34
pittijust a quick drive-by08:34
pittinational holiday today, and apparently I finally caught the Ubuflu today, so I'll keep it easy08:35
crevettehey pitti08:56
didrockspitti: hey pitti o/ Have a good rest :)09:06
yokobronce uppon the time, when the hot sun fadded behind the mountains, the shadow of a stron man with a gun in his han raised to protect the good people of the "hacienda". They call him "El Justiciero".10:33
Tm_Tyokobr: ok10:34
chrisccoulsonhi mpt - i'm currently implementing this spec you wrote: http://live.gnome.org/LowDiskSpaceWarning11:05
mptchrisccoulson, cool11:05
chrisccoulsondo you think it should have a computer-janitor button if its installed?11:05
mptThat would make sense11:09
mptbut not both the computer-janitor button and the baobab button11:10
mptthat would be too many11:10
mptjust baobab if computer-janitor isn't installed, I think11:10
chrisccoulsonmpt - yeah, that makes sense. the dialog is already quite wide as it is11:22
vuntzdobey: I honestly don't remember what was my feedback, so just go ahead and merge it, I'd say12:32
dobeyvuntz: hrmm. ok12:42
dobeympt_, chrisccoulson: might i suggest that the [OK] button in that dialog be something other than [OK]?12:45
dobeyperhaps [Ignore] or something more appropriate, becuase if it's OK, we shouldn't be popping up a dialog anyway12:45
dobeyubuntulog: help12:46
dobeyvuntz: ah! found the feedback in irc logs :)12:55
dobeyvuntz: you suggested doing test -h $script -o ! -s $script12:59
dobeyvuntz: but i think i'll just make it always remove the files instead13:01
chrisccoulsondobey - what would you suggest for the ok button then? some users will still want to dismiss the dialog without doing anything13:07
dobeychrisccoulson: then they are Ignoring it. if disk space is low, it's probably NOT ok :)13:07
dobeychrisccoulson: so perhaps "Ignore" would be better (it's also a verb)13:08
dobey"OK" is not a verb13:08
chrisccoulsonyeah, ignore would probably be ok13:08
chrisccoulsonalthough the dialog might reappear to pester them again later on when the disk fills up some more13:09
dobeylow disk space warnings are really hard to get right13:09
dobeyi know this, because i wrote the code in gnome-volume-manager to do low disk space notifications13:09
dobeyif i have a half gig of free space, seeing a warning is probably not very appropriate :)13:10
chrisccoulsonthe code in the current g-s-d housekeeping plugin is copied from g-v-m i think13:10
chrisccoulsonbut i've adapted it quite a bit so that it knows if there are other usable volumes with space on before displaying the dialog, as the spec mpt wrote needs that to adapt what is shown in the dialog13:11
dobeyit would be sweet if we had something which could index the average size of files on a partition, and do some logic based on that for annoying the user13:11
dobeybut doing so would eat up a lot of disk i/o13:12
chrisccoulsonyeah, thats not good13:12
dobeyit's too bad all the file indexing stuff sucks :(13:12
chrisccoulsonthe current housekeeping plugin displays the dialog at 5% free space but only if there is less than 2GB on the volume13:12
mptchrisccoulson, it should only happen for the partition that / or $HOME is on13:13
chrisccoulsoni say "currently", but the current housekeeping plugin doesn't actually work13:13
mptThat my 4GB iPod contains 3.97 GB of stuff is not a problem, I deliberately filled it that way13:13
dobeympt: but external disks should have notification as well... if there isn't enough room on my USB disk to store the presentation i'm working on, and i need to put it there, a notification would be nice :)13:14
chrisccoulsonmpt - i could do that, but it would be more awkward to get right. i wouldn't want to just hardcode "/" and "/home", as that would be wrong. I have lots of internal partitions that i would want to be notified for13:14
mptdobey, only if/when you actually try to move your presentation there.13:15
mptOtherwise it's pointless.13:15
dobeyi also have a seaprate disk for storing all my music/movies/etc... on13:15
chrisccoulsonand if i hardcoded those values, my patch would never be accepted upstream13:15
dobeympt: if i'm about to save it there, and i stick in the usb key, having to go through the tedious work to save it and have it fail, could be massively reduced by having the notification pop up as soon as the disk mounts13:15
mptdobey, I disagree that retyping a filename is "massive" "tedious work".13:16
mptIf you have to respecify the destination folder, that's a bug in the filepicker.13:16
dobeympt: you have to go back to file->save as, and then make sure you're in the right place, and then type the filename, and then push the save button13:17
mptIf I get a warning that my iPod is nearly full every time I connect it, I will not be happy.13:17
dobeympt: so we should special case audio players, not avoid all external disks13:18
dobeyhal/devicekit provide capability information so it can be used :)13:18
mptWhy are audio players special?13:18
dobeyyou just said they were13:19
mptNo I didn't, I gave it as an example.13:19
dobeythen why is /home special? you pretty intentionally put files there...13:19
mptThe partitions that are special are the ones containing / and $HOME, because they often have files written to them by non-interactive processes.13:20
dobeyif something is filling up your $HOME with crap, then it's a bug in the app that's doing it13:20
mptIf they were written to only by interactive processes, the "There's not enough room there" interactive errors would be enough.13:20
dobeywhat about the non-interactive stuff that auto-syncs podcasts to your ipod when you plug it in? you've subscribed to the podcast interactively, but the sync/management of that is mostly non-interactive13:22
mptYes, and in that situation iTunes puts up an alert saying "All downloads have been paused. The disk you are attempting to use is full."13:23
mpt(if you're trying to download more than will fit on the disk)13:24
andreasndobey, like my web browser cache?13:25
mptOr, if you're trying to put more on an audio player than will fit, words to the effect of: "There is not enough room on 'Alex's iPod' for the selected items (397.8 MB needed, 214.0 MB available)."13:25
loolrickspencer3: Hey; watching http://ishan.chattopadhyaya.com/blog/?p=56 made me think of quickly / anjuta; you probably thought of anjuta integration already I guess?13:26
mptOr "No photos were copied to 'Alex's iPod' because there is not enough space after syncing the music and podcasts", etc.13:26
dobeyandreasn: cache/history is buggy in all web browsers.13:26
mptThose specific errors are much more useful than a generic "Hm, there's not much space left here" would be.13:27
rickspencer3lool: I'm thinking that we should make it easy for anyone to embed quickly into an IDE, but that we wouldn't do it ourselves, make sense?13:27
kenvandinerickspencer3: i did the menu re-org properly on the plane, it looks nice... i will build it in my ppa today and the design team can use that for the user testing13:28
kenvandinei think it looks noce13:28
kenvandinenice even13:28
dobeympt: yes, because there is context. i don't think a generic "your disk space is probably low, but maybe it really isn't" notification for $HOME isn't particularly useful either. more contextual errors in apt, update-manager, etc... would be better i think13:28
mptdobey, the type of processes that accumulate disk usage incrementally and non-interactively (IRC logs, Xorg logs, etc) are pretty exclusive to / or $HOME.13:29
mptI agree apt should provide interactive errors too. (Something more for AppCenter...)13:29
mptrickspencer3, do you have time for a call today about the AppCenter implementation process?13:30
rickspencer3mpt: actually, I'm taking holiday till Thursday13:30
dobeyof course, disk space is cheap enough these days that most people will probably never see the low disk space notifications anyway13:30
mptrickspencer3, ok. Is mvo on holiday too?13:30
rickspencer3if it will unblock, I could take a call in a few minutes, but would prefer to wait until Thrusday if at all reasonable13:31
rickspencer3mpt: I don't know13:31
rickspencer3mvo is on Foundations, you may need to talk to robbiew, actually13:31
mptah, whoops, I thought he was on Desktop13:31
rickspencer3just got my inbox to zero!13:33
kenvandinei am almost there13:33
loolrickspencer3: (It definitely makes sense)13:34
* kenvandine uploads gnome-menus to ppa13:37
rickspencer3kenvandine: you subversive you13:38
* kenvandine had 9 hours on the plane... did a little besides sleep13:40
kenvandineok, i am going out to mow the lawn :)13:42
* rickspencer3 back to holiday time13:43
rickspencer3bye all13:43
jbarnes_LHRbluetooth headset discovery still seems manual13:52
jbarnes_LHRshouldn't the headset automatically show up in pulse etc when it pairs?13:52
jbarnes_LHRubottu: bluez13:53
ubottuSorry, I don't know anything about bluez13:53
jbarnes_LHRbryce: can you query ubottu for package owners somehow?13:54
jbarnes_LHRlike whoowns bluez13:54
Tm_TIIRC no13:54
jbarnes_LHRI think it's a pulse issue anyway13:55
Tm_T!help | jbarnes_LHR13:55
ubottujbarnes_LHR: Hi! I'm #ubuntu-desktop's favorite infobot, you can search my brain yourself at http://ubottu.com/factoids.cgi - Usage info: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBots13:55
jbarnes_LHRmaybe the module-bluetooth-discover module isn't loaded13:55
jbarnes_LHRah !help13:55
brycejbarnes_LHR: not that I know of.  I usually apt-get src and look through the control file and changelog to see who's touched it13:55
kenvandinempt_: you can check out gnome-menus from my ppa, https://edge.launchpad.net/~ken-vandine/+archive/ppa for a POC for the menu re-org14:08
kenvandinei didn't rename System.... so if you tell me what you want there i can do that too14:09
=== mpt_ is now known as mpt
vuntzkenvandine: oh, hrm, that's the change I want to push upstream14:10
vuntzkenvandine: except that you have internet & network14:10
vuntzI should really push that14:11
kenvandinevuntz: grab my patch :)14:12
kenvandinevuntz: our design team plans to do usability testing on that14:12
vuntzkenvandine: I have the same patch in openSUSE, except for the additional category14:12
kenvandineoh... cool14:12
kenvandinei followed the categories that slab gets14:13
vuntzit's actually the structure that you have in the control center shell14:13
kenvandinewhich i like14:13
kenvandineexactly :)14:13
andreasnvuntz, did you get a lot of flames for disabling menu icons so far (except the mailing list thread)?14:13
kenvandinedisabling menu icons?14:13
vuntzandreasn: we didn't do it since nobody else thought it was a good idea14:14
* kenvandine thinks it is a terrible idea :)14:14
* kenvandine goes back to actually taking the day off... 14:16
kenvandinempt: feedback would be appreciated :)14:16
mptkenvandine, thanks -- I have a scarily large amount of work to do, but if you e-mail me about it I'll add it to my list of interesting things to look at on Fridays :-)14:17
mptthanks for doing the work14:17
kenvandineunderstand :)14:17
* kenvandine just signed up for quite a bit of work today too :)14:17
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dobeygah evolution is such horrible ui14:49
=== mpt_ is now known as mpt
Tm_Tdobey: have you tried Kontact? Dunno if it's different enough but...14:52
dobeyTm_T: also not the UI desire14:55
Tm_Troger roger14:57
Tm_Tdobey: might like to summarise what's not good btw?14:57
dobeyTm_T: well using the "error" icon to signify "this calendar event should be shown as busy" is fail14:58
dobeyTm_T: and i posted a blog entry the other day about some ideas for managing "contacts"14:58
Tm_TI see14:58
dobeyi suppose i need to do some similar mock-ups for a calendar ui as well15:01
Tm_Tplease do15:01
* Tm_T thinks UI's need often fresh thinking15:01
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dobeypitti: stop spamming me with blueprint changes :)17:10
=== mpt_ is now known as mpt
seb128cassidy: there?21:18
cassidyI am21:18
seb128cassidy: could you look to the current comment on https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-karmic-messaging-and-communication-selection and tell me if those are really not available and if they are on the schedule?21:19
seb128is anybody working actively on the msn connection manager or not?21:19
cassidy"UPDATE: alright google video chat support coming in a week or two in empathy."  we are working on it. We have branches implemeting interop but for some reason Google stops sending us video after a while. We suspect a bug on their side21:20
cassidyseb128: yes, we have an intern working on audio/video support21:20
cassidy"empathy is soon to get(mostly before 9.10) video chat support for google talk, and msn."  we can't promise that for now21:21
seb128cassidy: my comment was rather for the 2009-06-01 comment but good to know ;-)21:21
Tm_Tcassidy: hmm, that gtalk support, using some library or... ?21:21
cassidy"   * Rich text messages (underline, bold, font, ...)"  we have a spec for this but it's not implemented either in Gabble (or other CM) or Empathy21:23
cassidy"   * Custom emoticons"  no spec, nothing planned for now21:23
cassidy"   * Protocol emoticons" what's that?21:23
seb128dunno, maybe some emoticons are specific to msn?21:24
cassidy"   * Msn chat with invisible users"  Don't know about that21:24
Tm_Tcassidy: I believe its some kind of "mood" thing for your status21:24
cassidy"   * Msn send and receive offline messages" idem21:24
cassidy"   * Msn see windows live messenger buddy icons (only new versions of 2009)" don't know how much it's different from the other one21:24
cassidy"   * Msn file transfers"  istaz_ is the one to ask for this one :)21:25
seb128istaz_: ^ hey ;-)21:25
cassidyseb128: I don't work on  butterfly (the MSN CM). It would be good to open a bug (if there is no one yet) for each of these missing features21:25
seb128cassidy: ok thanks, that doesn't change the plan for karmic but I though feature parity was near which might not be the case, in any case we will give it some testing21:26
seb128we can still rollback if required21:26
cassidyseb128: also note that for google video (interop with the web client), we need H264 (thanks Google...) which can't be shipped by default21:26
istaz_cassidy: no progress since last time, I put the project on hold for now21:26
cassidyempathy - empathy video can use Theora though21:26
seb128cassidy: what is the bug tracker for the msn cm, is there a page about the current infrastructure, ie list of cms, bugtrackers used, etc?21:26
cassidyall the CMS are on bugs.fd.o21:27
seb128ok good21:27
cassidyonly Empathy is on GNOME's bugzilla21:27
seb128cassidy: does switching wins us anything? ;-)21:27
cassidya UI that doesn't suck? ;)21:27
cassidytbh, Pidgin is definitely a better MSN client for now21:28
dobeydoes empathy have sound event support for "message received" yet?21:28
cassidybut Empathy is a better XMPP and XMPP-linklocal client21:28
seb128the UI doesn't seem much different to me21:28
cassidymuch better21:28
cassidywe are also doing some telepathy integration work in GNOME21:29
cassidyas vino/vinagre tube integration21:29
seb128client to client video using theora should be working though right?21:29
cassidywhich should be merged for 2.28 hopefully21:29
cassidyseb128: yes21:29
cassidyand audio is working with the gtalk windows desktop client21:29
seb128ok, that's something ;-)21:29
cassidyand the web one21:29
seb128do you go to GUADEC this year?21:29
seb128ok, good21:30
cassidyas almost all Collabora :)21:30
seb128I expect we will have some talks there then21:30
cassidyof course21:30
seb128we will probably get some user feedback before GUADEC already21:30
cassidythe MSN guys would be there too21:30
seb128I will not annoy you longer for now then ;-)21:30
seb128thanks for replying to my questions21:30
cassidyI'll give a talk about Collaboration in GNOME using Telepathy21:31
cassidyseb128: oh, and we just finished to merge geolocation support today!21:34
cassidywhich is a feature than only us implement afaik21:34
seb128what does it do exactly?21:34
seb128I've read about "yet another libraries to add to the depends" but that's about it ;-)21:34
cassidyseb128: http://blog.pierlux.com/2009/01/22/empathy-where-are-you/en/21:36
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loolHey folks22:39
loolI'm looking for someone to pick up https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/jaunty/+source/loudmouth/+bug/382569 which upstream pinged me about but which I can't handle soonish22:40
ubottuUbuntu bug 382569 in loudmouth "md5 digest uri not set correctly when using srv " [Undecided,Fix released]22:40
loolMy understanding is that it prevents loudmouth based jabber clients from connecting to ejabberd servers; I have no idea how grave that is22:41
loolThis includes telepathy-gabble though, so it looks like it might be important to fix it22:41

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