[03:27] <dobey> vuntz: ping. so i totally forget what your feedback was for https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~dobey/intltool/intltoolize-version-magic other than recalling you suggested a possible change :-/
[06:56] <robert_ancell> racarr: hi
[08:34] <pitti> hello all
[08:34] <pitti> just a quick drive-by
[08:35] <pitti> national holiday today, and apparently I finally caught the Ubuflu today, so I'll keep it easy
[08:56] <crevette> hey pitti
[09:06] <didrocks> pitti: hey pitti o/ Have a good rest :)
[10:33] <yokobr> once uppon the time, when the hot sun fadded behind the mountains, the shadow of a stron man with a gun in his han raised to protect the good people of the "hacienda". They call him "El Justiciero".
[10:34] <Tm_T> yokobr: ok
[10:36] <chrisccoulson> huh?
[11:05] <chrisccoulson> hi mpt - i'm currently implementing this spec you wrote: http://live.gnome.org/LowDiskSpaceWarning
[11:05] <mpt> chrisccoulson, cool
[11:05] <chrisccoulson> do you think it should have a computer-janitor button if its installed?
[11:09] <mpt> That would make sense
[11:10] <mpt> but not both the computer-janitor button and the baobab button
[11:10] <mpt> that would be too many
[11:10] <mpt> just baobab if computer-janitor isn't installed, I think
[11:22] <chrisccoulson> mpt - yeah, that makes sense. the dialog is already quite wide as it is
[12:32] <vuntz> dobey: I honestly don't remember what was my feedback, so just go ahead and merge it, I'd say
[12:42] <dobey> vuntz: hrmm. ok
[12:45] <dobey> mpt_, chrisccoulson: might i suggest that the [OK] button in that dialog be something other than [OK]?
[12:45] <dobey> perhaps [Ignore] or something more appropriate, becuase if it's OK, we shouldn't be popping up a dialog anyway
[12:46] <dobey> ubuntulog: help
[12:46] <dobey> meh
[12:55] <dobey> vuntz: ah! found the feedback in irc logs :)
[12:59] <dobey> vuntz: you suggested doing test -h $script -o ! -s $script
[13:01] <dobey> vuntz: but i think i'll just make it always remove the files instead
[13:07] <chrisccoulson> dobey - what would you suggest for the ok button then? some users will still want to dismiss the dialog without doing anything
[13:07] <dobey> chrisccoulson: then they are Ignoring it. if disk space is low, it's probably NOT ok :)
[13:08] <dobey> chrisccoulson: so perhaps "Ignore" would be better (it's also a verb)
[13:08] <dobey> "OK" is not a verb
[13:08] <chrisccoulson> yeah, ignore would probably be ok
[13:09] <chrisccoulson> although the dialog might reappear to pester them again later on when the disk fills up some more
[13:09] <dobey> low disk space warnings are really hard to get right
[13:09] <dobey> i know this, because i wrote the code in gnome-volume-manager to do low disk space notifications
[13:10] <dobey> if i have a half gig of free space, seeing a warning is probably not very appropriate :)
[13:10] <chrisccoulson> the code in the current g-s-d housekeeping plugin is copied from g-v-m i think
[13:11] <chrisccoulson> but i've adapted it quite a bit so that it knows if there are other usable volumes with space on before displaying the dialog, as the spec mpt wrote needs that to adapt what is shown in the dialog
[13:11] <dobey> it would be sweet if we had something which could index the average size of files on a partition, and do some logic based on that for annoying the user
[13:12] <dobey> but doing so would eat up a lot of disk i/o
[13:12] <chrisccoulson> yeah, thats not good
[13:12] <dobey> it's too bad all the file indexing stuff sucks :(
[13:12] <chrisccoulson> the current housekeeping plugin displays the dialog at 5% free space but only if there is less than 2GB on the volume
[13:13] <mpt> chrisccoulson, it should only happen for the partition that / or $HOME is on
[13:13] <dobey> yeah
[13:13] <chrisccoulson> i say "currently", but the current housekeeping plugin doesn't actually work
[13:13] <mpt> That my 4GB iPod contains 3.97 GB of stuff is not a problem, I deliberately filled it that way
[13:14] <dobey> mpt: but external disks should have notification as well... if there isn't enough room on my USB disk to store the presentation i'm working on, and i need to put it there, a notification would be nice :)
[13:14] <chrisccoulson> mpt - i could do that, but it would be more awkward to get right. i wouldn't want to just hardcode "/" and "/home", as that would be wrong. I have lots of internal partitions that i would want to be notified for
[13:14] <dobey> indeed
[13:15] <mpt> dobey, only if/when you actually try to move your presentation there.
[13:15] <mpt> Otherwise it's pointless.
[13:15] <dobey> i also have a seaprate disk for storing all my music/movies/etc... on
[13:15] <chrisccoulson> and if i hardcoded those values, my patch would never be accepted upstream
[13:15] <dobey> mpt: if i'm about to save it there, and i stick in the usb key, having to go through the tedious work to save it and have it fail, could be massively reduced by having the notification pop up as soon as the disk mounts
[13:16] <mpt> dobey, I disagree that retyping a filename is "massive" "tedious work".
[13:16] <mpt> If you have to respecify the destination folder, that's a bug in the filepicker.
[13:17] <dobey> mpt: you have to go back to file->save as, and then make sure you're in the right place, and then type the filename, and then push the save button
[13:17] <mpt> If I get a warning that my iPod is nearly full every time I connect it, I will not be happy.
[13:18] <dobey> mpt: so we should special case audio players, not avoid all external disks
[13:18] <dobey> hal/devicekit provide capability information so it can be used :)
[13:18] <mpt> Why are audio players special?
[13:19] <dobey> you just said they were
[13:19] <mpt> No I didn't, I gave it as an example.
[13:19] <dobey> then why is /home special? you pretty intentionally put files there...
[13:20] <mpt> The partitions that are special are the ones containing / and $HOME, because they often have files written to them by non-interactive processes.
[13:20] <dobey> if something is filling up your $HOME with crap, then it's a bug in the app that's doing it
[13:20] <mpt> If they were written to only by interactive processes, the "There's not enough room there" interactive errors would be enough.
[13:22] <dobey> what about the non-interactive stuff that auto-syncs podcasts to your ipod when you plug it in? you've subscribed to the podcast interactively, but the sync/management of that is mostly non-interactive
[13:23] <mpt> Yes, and in that situation iTunes puts up an alert saying "All downloads have been paused. The disk you are attempting to use is full."
[13:24] <mpt> (if you're trying to download more than will fit on the disk)
[13:25] <andreasn> dobey, like my web browser cache?
[13:25] <mpt> Or, if you're trying to put more on an audio player than will fit, words to the effect of: "There is not enough room on 'Alex's iPod' for the selected items (397.8 MB needed, 214.0 MB available)."
[13:26] <lool> rickspencer3: Hey; watching http://ishan.chattopadhyaya.com/blog/?p=56 made me think of quickly / anjuta; you probably thought of anjuta integration already I guess?
[13:26] <mpt> Or "No photos were copied to 'Alex's iPod' because there is not enough space after syncing the music and podcasts", etc.
[13:26] <dobey> andreasn: cache/history is buggy in all web browsers.
[13:27] <mpt> Those specific errors are much more useful than a generic "Hm, there's not much space left here" would be.
[13:27] <rickspencer3> lool: I'm thinking that we should make it easy for anyone to embed quickly into an IDE, but that we wouldn't do it ourselves, make sense?
[13:28] <kenvandine> rickspencer3: i did the menu re-org properly on the plane, it looks nice... i will build it in my ppa today and the design team can use that for the user testing
[13:28] <kenvandine> i think it looks noce
[13:28] <kenvandine> nice even
[13:28] <dobey> mpt: yes, because there is context. i don't think a generic "your disk space is probably low, but maybe it really isn't" notification for $HOME isn't particularly useful either. more contextual errors in apt, update-manager, etc... would be better i think
[13:29] <mpt> dobey, the type of processes that accumulate disk usage incrementally and non-interactively (IRC logs, Xorg logs, etc) are pretty exclusive to / or $HOME.
[13:29] <mpt> I agree apt should provide interactive errors too. (Something more for AppCenter...)
[13:30] <mpt> rickspencer3, do you have time for a call today about the AppCenter implementation process?
[13:30] <rickspencer3> mpt: actually, I'm taking holiday till Thursday
[13:30] <dobey> of course, disk space is cheap enough these days that most people will probably never see the low disk space notifications anyway
[13:30] <mpt> rickspencer3, ok. Is mvo on holiday too?
[13:31] <rickspencer3> if it will unblock, I could take a call in a few minutes, but would prefer to wait until Thrusday if at all reasonable
[13:31] <rickspencer3> mpt: I don't know
[13:31] <rickspencer3> mvo is on Foundations, you may need to talk to robbiew, actually
[13:31] <mpt> ah, whoops, I thought he was on Desktop
[13:31] <mpt> thanks
[13:33] <rickspencer3> just got my inbox to zero!
[13:33] <kenvandine> woot
[13:33] <kenvandine> i am almost there
[13:33] <kenvandine> :)
[13:34] <lool> rickspencer3: (It definitely makes sense)
[13:37]  * kenvandine uploads gnome-menus to ppa
[13:38] <rickspencer3> kenvandine: you subversive you
[13:40]  * kenvandine had 9 hours on the plane... did a little besides sleep
[13:42] <kenvandine> ok, i am going out to mow the lawn :)
[13:43]  * rickspencer3 back to holiday time
[13:43] <rickspencer3> bye all
[13:52] <jbarnes_LHR> bluetooth headset discovery still seems manual
[13:52] <jbarnes_LHR> shouldn't the headset automatically show up in pulse etc when it pairs?
[13:53] <jbarnes_LHR> ubottu: bluez
[13:54] <jbarnes_LHR> bryce: can you query ubottu for package owners somehow?
[13:54] <jbarnes_LHR> like whoowns bluez
[13:54] <Tm_T> IIRC no
[13:55] <jbarnes_LHR> I think it's a pulse issue anyway
[13:55] <Tm_T> !help | jbarnes_LHR
[13:55] <jbarnes_LHR> maybe the module-bluetooth-discover module isn't loaded
[13:55] <jbarnes_LHR> ah !help
[13:55] <bryce> jbarnes_LHR: not that I know of.  I usually apt-get src and look through the control file and changelog to see who's touched it
[14:08] <kenvandine> mpt_: you can check out gnome-menus from my ppa, https://edge.launchpad.net/~ken-vandine/+archive/ppa for a POC for the menu re-org
[14:09] <kenvandine> i didn't rename System.... so if you tell me what you want there i can do that too
[14:10] <vuntz> kenvandine: oh, hrm, that's the change I want to push upstream
[14:10] <vuntz> kenvandine: except that you have internet & network
[14:11] <vuntz> I should really push that
[14:12] <kenvandine> vuntz: grab my patch :)
[14:12] <kenvandine> vuntz: our design team plans to do usability testing on that
[14:12] <vuntz> kenvandine: I have the same patch in openSUSE, except for the additional category
[14:12] <kenvandine> oh... cool
[14:13] <kenvandine> i followed the categories that slab gets
[14:13] <vuntz> it's actually the structure that you have in the control center shell
[14:13] <kenvandine> which i like
[14:13] <kenvandine> yes
[14:13] <kenvandine> exactly :)
[14:13] <andreasn> vuntz, did you get a lot of flames for disabling menu icons so far (except the mailing list thread)?
[14:13] <kenvandine> disabling menu icons?
[14:14] <vuntz> andreasn: we didn't do it since nobody else thought it was a good idea
[14:14]  * kenvandine thinks it is a terrible idea :)
[14:14] <andreasn> oh
[14:16]  * kenvandine goes back to actually taking the day off... 
[14:16] <kenvandine> mpt: feedback would be appreciated :)
[14:17] <mpt> kenvandine, thanks -- I have a scarily large amount of work to do, but if you e-mail me about it I'll add it to my list of interesting things to look at on Fridays :-)
[14:17] <mpt> thanks for doing the work
[14:17] <kenvandine> understand :)
[14:17]  * kenvandine just signed up for quite a bit  of work today too :)
[14:49] <dobey> gah evolution is such horrible ui
[14:52] <Tm_T> dobey: have you tried Kontact? Dunno if it's different enough but...
[14:55] <dobey> Tm_T: also not the UI desire
[14:57] <Tm_T> roger roger
[14:57] <Tm_T> dobey: might like to summarise what's not good btw?
[14:58] <dobey> Tm_T: well using the "error" icon to signify "this calendar event should be shown as busy" is fail
[14:58] <dobey> Tm_T: and i posted a blog entry the other day about some ideas for managing "contacts"
[14:58] <Tm_T> I see
[15:01] <dobey> i suppose i need to do some similar mock-ups for a calendar ui as well
[15:01] <Tm_T> please do
[15:01]  * Tm_T thinks UI's need often fresh thinking
[17:10] <dobey> pitti: stop spamming me with blueprint changes :)
[21:18] <seb128> cassidy: there?
[21:18] <cassidy> I am
[21:19] <seb128> cassidy: could you look to the current comment on https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-karmic-messaging-and-communication-selection and tell me if those are really not available and if they are on the schedule?
[21:19] <cassidy> sure
[21:19] <seb128> is anybody working actively on the msn connection manager or not?
[21:20] <cassidy> "UPDATE: alright google video chat support coming in a week or two in empathy."  we are working on it. We have branches implemeting interop but for some reason Google stops sending us video after a while. We suspect a bug on their side
[21:20] <cassidy> seb128: yes, we have an intern working on audio/video support
[21:21] <cassidy> "empathy is soon to get(mostly before 9.10) video chat support for google talk, and msn."  we can't promise that for now
[21:21] <seb128> cassidy: my comment was rather for the 2009-06-01 comment but good to know ;-)
[21:21] <Tm_T> cassidy: hmm, that gtalk support, using some library or... ?
[21:23] <cassidy> "   * Rich text messages (underline, bold, font, ...)"  we have a spec for this but it's not implemented either in Gabble (or other CM) or Empathy
[21:23] <cassidy> "   * Custom emoticons"  no spec, nothing planned for now
[21:23] <cassidy> "   * Protocol emoticons" what's that?
[21:24] <seb128> dunno, maybe some emoticons are specific to msn?
[21:24] <cassidy> "   * Msn chat with invisible users"  Don't know about that
[21:24] <Tm_T> cassidy: I believe its some kind of "mood" thing for your status
[21:24] <cassidy> "   * Msn send and receive offline messages" idem
[21:24] <cassidy> "   * Msn see windows live messenger buddy icons (only new versions of 2009)" don't know how much it's different from the other one
[21:25] <cassidy> "   * Msn file transfers"  istaz_ is the one to ask for this one :)
[21:25] <seb128> istaz_: ^ hey ;-)
[21:25] <cassidy> seb128: I don't work on  butterfly (the MSN CM). It would be good to open a bug (if there is no one yet) for each of these missing features
[21:26] <seb128> cassidy: ok thanks, that doesn't change the plan for karmic but I though feature parity was near which might not be the case, in any case we will give it some testing
[21:26] <seb128> we can still rollback if required
[21:26] <cassidy> seb128: also note that for google video (interop with the web client), we need H264 (thanks Google...) which can't be shipped by default
[21:26] <istaz_> cassidy: no progress since last time, I put the project on hold for now
[21:26] <cassidy> empathy - empathy video can use Theora though
[21:26] <seb128> cassidy: what is the bug tracker for the msn cm, is there a page about the current infrastructure, ie list of cms, bugtrackers used, etc?
[21:27] <cassidy> all the CMS are on bugs.fd.o
[21:27] <seb128> ok good
[21:27] <cassidy> only Empathy is on GNOME's bugzilla
[21:27] <seb128> cassidy: does switching wins us anything? ;-)
[21:27] <cassidy> a UI that doesn't suck? ;)
[21:28] <cassidy> tbh, Pidgin is definitely a better MSN client for now
[21:28] <dobey> does empathy have sound event support for "message received" yet?
[21:28] <cassidy> but Empathy is a better XMPP and XMPP-linklocal client
[21:28] <seb128> the UI doesn't seem much different to me
[21:28] <cassidy> much better
[21:29] <cassidy> we are also doing some telepathy integration work in GNOME
[21:29] <cassidy> as vino/vinagre tube integration
[21:29] <seb128> client to client video using theora should be working though right?
[21:29] <cassidy> which should be merged for 2.28 hopefully
[21:29] <cassidy> seb128: yes
[21:29] <cassidy> and audio is working with the gtalk windows desktop client
[21:29] <seb128> ok, that's something ;-)
[21:29] <cassidy> and the web one
[21:29] <seb128> do you go to GUADEC this year?
[21:30] <cassidy> sure!
[21:30] <seb128> ok, good
[21:30] <cassidy> as almost all Collabora :)
[21:30] <seb128> I expect we will have some talks there then
[21:30] <cassidy> of course
[21:30] <seb128> we will probably get some user feedback before GUADEC already
[21:30] <cassidy> the MSN guys would be there too
[21:30] <seb128> I will not annoy you longer for now then ;-)
[21:30] <seb128> thanks for replying to my questions
[21:30] <cassidy> np
[21:31] <cassidy> I'll give a talk about Collaboration in GNOME using Telepathy
[21:32] <seb128> cool
[21:34] <cassidy> seb128: oh, and we just finished to merge geolocation support today!
[21:34] <cassidy> which is a feature than only us implement afaik
[21:34] <seb128> what does it do exactly?
[21:34] <seb128> I've read about "yet another libraries to add to the depends" but that's about it ;-)
[21:36] <cassidy> seb128: http://blog.pierlux.com/2009/01/22/empathy-where-are-you/en/
[21:36] <seb128> ok
[21:36] <seb128> brb
[22:39] <lool> Hey folks
[22:40] <lool> I'm looking for someone to pick up https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/jaunty/+source/loudmouth/+bug/382569 which upstream pinged me about but which I can't handle soonish
[22:41] <lool> My understanding is that it prevents loudmouth based jabber clients from connecting to ejabberd servers; I have no idea how grave that is
[22:41] <lool> This includes telepathy-gabble though, so it looks like it might be important to fix it