[01:11] <aaditya> hello folks
[01:12] <aaditya> there's a broken link in ubottu's database
[01:12] <aaditya> !sparc
[01:12] <aaditya> kindly take a look
[01:14] <aaditya> perhaps this should be the correct link: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/Sparc
[01:14] <genii> ubottu: sparc is Information on Ubuntu on SPARC platforms can be found here https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/Sparc
[01:14] <genii> ubottu: no sparc is Information on Ubuntu on SPARC platforms can be found here https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/Sparc
[01:15] <Pici> !no sparc is <reply> Information on Ubuntu on SPARC platforms can be found here https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/Sparc
[01:15] <aaditya> thanks genii
[01:15] <aaditya> and pici
[01:15] <genii> Pici: Damn. I always forget that <reply> bit
[01:15] <Pici> genii: I know ;)
[01:15] <aaditya> here's another link we might include - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/sparc/KnownIssues
[01:17] <genii> aaditya: That second page links off the one already given
[01:18] <aaditya> genii: oh ok, cool
[01:19] <genii> aaditya: If there are no other issues for you to raise here, please remember idling in this channel is not allowed.
[01:20] <aaditya> genii: no problem
[01:21]  * genii hands Mr. Pici a coffee
[01:21] <Pici> :P
[01:21] <genii> Pici: I'll be calling you that for a while now, you know
[01:24] <elky> genii, avoid 'not allowed' unless you want people to argue the point more than usual. 'strongly discouraged' is better
[01:24] <genii> elky: I thought about that fater actually and figure I should perhaps have said "not encouraged" or similar
[01:24] <genii> *after
[01:25] <elky> cool, so long as the reasoning is not lost on you
[01:25] <genii> :)
[01:26] <elky> meanwhile, my work vm has a keymap issue and it sucks.
[01:26] <elky> vmware is stupid sometimes.
[01:27] <elky> it of course reports 'generic 105 keyboard' or whatever at config time... irregardless if you have a funky laptop keyboard that's not really quite like generic keyboards.
[01:27] <elky> the up arrow launches screenshot. 10 times.
[01:27] <genii> Ouch
[01:27] <elky> the enter key likes to multi-press too.
[01:28] <elky> it is quite tiring since this is keeping me from doing actual work :(
[01:28] <Pici> Could you install some sort of remote desktop server on it then remote it?
[01:28] <Pici> er, s/it/in?
[01:31] <elky> Pici, SOE is vmware.
[01:32] <elky> there's several issues. firstly, the keymapping. secondly, the zillion-keypresses-instead-of-one thing.
[01:33] <elky> this is also centos. so i have zero confidence of getting an answer from the relevent channels
[01:34] <Pici> :/
[01:34] <elky> the keymap thing happens on my ubuntu vm too, but that's there for karmic funs.
[01:34] <Pici> hm
[01:35] <genii> !sftp
[01:35] <Pici> !ssh
[01:36] <genii> Maybe just append: ftp over SSH the-link-here
[01:38] <Pici> Thats a big factoid
[01:39] <genii> Pici: I'm more for appending the !ssh then alias !sftp to it, or similar
[01:40] <Pici> genii: I'm about to go eat, so its up to you.  
[01:40] <genii> You can do any number of thing over SSH. Like dd even
[01:41] <genii> Whats the syntax of adding an alias? I didn't see it on the bot usage page
[01:41] <Pici> !baz is <alias> foo
[01:41] <Pici> !-baz
[01:41] <Pici> !-foo
[01:41] <genii> Hehe
[01:47] <aaditya> i'm back with another issue
[01:48] <aaditya> if ubottu knew about sftp, it'd be easier to explain newbies why to use sftp instead of samba
[01:48] <aaditya> sftp is SSH File Transfer Protocol provides file transfer and manipulation functionality over any reliable data stream. For more info: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SSH/TransferFiles and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SSH_file_transfer_protocol. For Windows SFTP server or client, http://www.bitvise.com/tunnelier and http://winscp.net/
[01:48] <aaditya> could someone verify the info above and tell ubottu to remember it?
[01:50] <genii> SSH is the Secure SHell protocol. See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SSHHowto for usage. Putty is a Windows SSH client, it can be found at http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/putty/ . SSH can be used with protocols such as FTP, see: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SSH/TransferFiles
[01:51] <aaditya> no, ssh is not used WITH ftp
[01:51] <aaditya> sftp is a different protocol
[01:51] <aaditya> SFTP is file transfer over an encrypted SSH stream
[01:53] <genii> aaditya: Many things can be done over SSH. dd for instance, not just ftp. sftp is regular ftp which is passed over an ssh connection, it is not a separate thing independent of ssh
[01:53] <aaditya> i agree
[01:54] <aaditya> but telling users that they can use SSH with FTP will give them the impression that they have to setup SSH and then FTP somehow
[01:55] <aaditya> moreover, gnome and kde support SFTP natively
[01:56] <genii> aaditya: ssh client is installed by default.
[01:57] <aaditya> that sounds better
[01:57] <aaditya> Gnome and KDE support SFTP by default..
[02:02] <genii> SSH is the Secure SHell protocol. See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SSHHowto for usage. Putty is a Windows SSH client, it can be found at http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/putty/ . Gnome and KDE  support SFTP (Secure FTP) by default, which also uses SSH , see: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SSH/TransferFiles
[02:02] <genii> aaditya: The idea is not to have a separate !sftp but point it to !ssh which would be modified to something similar to above
[02:04] <aaditya> genii: Got it. I'll make the factoid clear and easy to comprehend, and then get back to you.
[02:07] <genii> aaditya: For now I'll adjust the existing !ssh to the above and point !sftp to it.
[02:07] <aaditya> ok, i'm almost done though
[02:07] <genii> (if there are no objections from others)
[02:08] <aaditya> SSH is the Secure SHell protocol. See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SSHHowto for usage. SFTP (SSH File Transfer Protocol) provides file transfer and manipulation functionality. For more info: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SSH/TransferFiles and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SSH_file_transfer_protocol. For SSH functionality on Windows, http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/putty/, http://www.bitvise.com/tunnelier and ht
[02:08] <genii> aaditya: The problem is that there is limited facgtoid length
[02:09] <aaditya> that's what i was thinking
[02:09] <aaditya> genii: is there a max character count?
[02:09] <genii> aaditya: Yes. Off hand I'm not sure what though. Likely where it cut off what you put
[02:10] <aaditya> let's remove some of the links then
[02:10] <aaditya> SSH is the Secure SHell protocol. See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SSHHowto for usage. SFTP (SSH File Transfer Protocol) provides file transfer and manipulation functionality. For more info: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SSH/TransferFiles. For SSH functionality in Windows: http://www.bitvise.com/tunnelier
[02:11] <aaditya> the windows client, tunnelier, is more user friendly than putty and is free for personal use
[02:11] <aaditya> WinSCP is free too
[02:11] <genii> Hm
[02:12] <genii> aaditya: tunnelier is not open-source, putty is
[02:12] <aaditya> yes that's the thing with tunnelier
[02:13] <aaditya> WinSCP is open source and better than Putty
[02:14] <aaditya> but looks like WinSCP does not provide an ssh shell interface
[02:14] <aaditya> let's keep putty in that case
[02:14] <genii> aaditya: I would not link to tunnelier over putty in this tacfoid for an ssh client. winscp is fine for windows sftp client however
[02:15] <aaditya> genii: so putty and winscp?
[02:15] <genii> aaditya: Yes
[02:16] <genii> Conciely if possible :)
[02:16] <genii> *concisely
[02:17] <aaditya> SSH is the Secure SHell protocol. See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SSHHowto for usage. SFTP (SSH File Transfer Protocol) provides file transfer and manipulation functionality. For more info: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SSH/TransferFiles. For SSH functionality in Windows: http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/putty/ and http://winscp.net/
[02:18] <genii> aaditya: It becomes in that case confusing if winscp is an ssh client or no. 1 minute and I'll consider a rewrite here
[02:18] <aaditya> genii: alright
[02:21] <aaditya> let's also point "scp" to the same factoid
[02:21] <genii> SSH is the Secure SHell protocol. See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SSHHowto for usage. http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/putty/ is a Windows SSH client. SFTP (SSH File Transfer Protocol) provides file transfer and manipulation functionality: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SSH/TransferFiles . WinSCP provides similar functionality for Windows: http://winscp.net/
[02:22] <genii> !scp
[02:22] <aaditya> hm
[02:22] <genii> aaditya: !scp is functional as-is
[02:22] <aaditya> yes
[02:23] <genii> aaditya: In fact Can just reference !scp from in the !ssh
[02:23] <aaditya> i have a feeling that sftp and scp should be a single factoid and ssh should be separate
[02:24] <aaditya> can we keep the existing SSH and add the extra sftp information to scp instead of ssh?
[02:24] <aaditya> and then point sftp to the scp factoid?
[02:24] <genii> aaditya: This makes more functional sense, yes
[02:25] <aaditya> i'm at it
[02:25] <genii> !ssh
[02:27] <genii> ubottu: SSH is the Secure SHell protocol. See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SSHHowto for usage. Putty is a nice SSH client for Windows; it can be found at http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/putty/ . See !scp for secure file copy, which also uses SSH
[02:27] <genii> ubottu: no, SSH is the Secure SHell protocol. See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SSHHowto for usage. Putty is a nice SSH client for Windows; it can be found at http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/putty/ . See !scp for secure file copy, which also uses SSH
[02:30] <genii> Oops
[02:30] <genii> ubottu: no, SSH is <reply> the Secure SHell protocol. See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SSHHowto for usage. Putty is a nice SSH client for Windows; it can be found at http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/putty/ . See !scp for secure file copy, which also uses SSH
[02:30] <genii> Bah.
[02:30] <genii> ubottu: no, SSH is <reply> SSH is the Secure SHell protocol. See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SSHHowto for usage. Putty is a nice SSH client for Windows; it can be found at http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/putty/ . See !scp for secure file copy, which also uses SSH
[02:30]  * genii quadruple-checks
[02:31] <genii> !ssh
[02:31] <aaditya> now i'm confused lol
[02:31] <aaditya> SFTP (SSH File Transfer Protocol) provides file transfer and manipulation functionality across networks over !SSH. SCP is a secure way of copying files over !SSH. Usage: `scp filename user@host:filename`. For more info: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SSH/TransferFiles. WinSCP is a client for Windows, available at http://winscp.net/
[02:33] <aaditya> SSH is the Secure SHell protocol. See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SSHHowto for usage. Putty is a nice SSH client for Windows; it can be found at http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/putty/ . See !SCP for more info on securely copying files over networks.
[02:34] <aaditya> SSH is the Secure SHell protocol. See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SSHHowto for usage. Putty is a nice SSH client for Windows; it can be found at http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/putty/ . See !SCP for more info on securely copying files over SSH.
[02:35] <aaditya> genii: i'm back
[02:39] <genii> aaditya: Factoid changes are not committed until the bot is directed to replace the old one with the agreed-upon new one. So I just modified the original !ssh 
[02:39] <aaditya> genii: I noticed that
[02:40] <aaditya> i was confused with the number of times it was changed :P
[02:40] <aaditya> anyways
[02:40]  * genii makes more coffee
[02:41] <aaditya> heh
[02:41] <aaditya> you might want to consider the last SSH that I posted above
[02:41] <aaditya> and the SFTP one could have "scp", "sftp" and "winscp" pointed towards it
[02:43] <genii> We'll sort it out :)
[02:43] <aaditya> cool :)
[02:46] <aaditya> I'm working on becoming a member of Team Ubuntu. The docs say that "Contributions should be significant and visible". What'd be considered significant? 200th best contributer in brainstorm and helping people in #ubuntu?
[02:47] <genii> aaditya: I'm not sure thats within the scope of this channel
[02:47] <aaditya> genii: Ah I see. Which channel then?
[02:48] <genii> !contribute
[02:48] <genii> Hm
[02:48] <genii> aaditya: You may want to ask in #ubuntu-motu , if anywhere
[02:49] <aaditya> genii: alright, thanks :)
[02:49] <aaditya> genii: I'm heading out now, hoping to see those factoid changes committed soon. Thanks for your time and cooperation.
[02:50] <genii> aaditya: You're welcome
[03:06]  * genii contemplates the factoid mess
[03:08]  * Seeker` contemplates NDCS
[03:08] <Seeker`> *NCDS
[03:10] <genii> ?
[03:12] <genii> OK, is this acceptable?
[03:12] <genii> !ssh
[03:13] <Seeker`> bit long isn't it?
[03:14] <genii> Seeker`: Yes :( Maybe to remove the advanced usgaes, you think? That page has useful info on tunneling vnc, socksn and sshfs though
[03:15] <genii> Bleh typos
[03:15] <Seeker`> I think that putty should be a seperate factoid
[03:15] <Seeker`> maybe
[03:16] <genii> !putty
[03:16] <genii> Hm
[03:17] <genii> Seeker`: I'm all for that, I don't know how to un-alias though
[03:20] <genii> I imagine you tell it to forget the aliased name but I don't want to do that and wipe out the original
[03:21] <tiyowan> Hi...um, can someone please point out to me why I've been banned from the Ubuntu channel?
[03:21] <Seeker`> you pinged the whole channel
[03:21] <tiyowan> Yikes.
[03:23] <tiyowan> Sorry about that; I'm setting up irssi on cygwin using rxvt...
[03:23] <Seeker`> I'll remove the ban if you can guarantee that it will never happen again
[03:24] <tiyowan> Agreed. :)
[03:25] <Seeker`> you should be able to get back in
[03:26]  * elky debates ordering pizza for lunch...
[03:26] <tiyowan> Thank you very much. Aha, I think I know how that happened. Hmm, oversight in the irssi script. Could you point out an acceptable way to find out the lag between myself and #ubuntu?
[03:28] <Seeker`> doesn't irssi display the lag if it is more than 1 second?
[03:29] <nalioth> yes, irssi displays lag
[03:29] <tiyowan> Seeker: Yes, it does. Perhaps I could pull that out af a var. Okay, thanks a lot. And sorry about that.
[03:30] <nalioth> tiyowan: it's better to ping the server itself
[03:30] <nalioth> channels don't respond to pings
[03:31] <tiyowan> nalioth: For example, pinging irc.freenode.net?
[03:33] <tiyowan> Anyway, I'll figure something out. Thank you for your assistance, folks. Have a nice day.
[03:44]  * genii sips
[04:02] <genii> Hm.
[04:02] <genii> putty is <reply> PuTTY is an !SSH client for Windows. Please see: http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/putty/ for it's homepage and downloads. See also !scp (Secure CoPy)
[04:03] <genii> I'm getting from bot "putty is something else" but then when: no, putty is newthing  it says it knows nothing about putty
[04:04]  * genii pokdes at tsimpson
[04:21] <Myrtti> sigh damned bees
[04:23] <genii> Myrtti: You got bit?
[04:58] <Myrtti> genii: no, woke up
[05:00] <genii> Ah. Yes, they can be very noisy. Especially the large queens
[08:27] <elky> both limewire and frostwire suck.
[08:27] <Pici> limewire is <reply> limewire sucks
[08:34] <aaditya> I had a discussion here with genii about 6 hours ago about updating certain factoids
[08:34] <aaditya> Users could be benefited by updating "sftp" and "scp"
[08:37] <Pici> aaditya: And?
[08:37] <Pici> aaditya: Looks like it was done.
[08:38] <aaditya> !sftp
[08:38] <aaditya> !scp
[08:38] <aaditya> only SSH factoid was modified
[08:39] <aaditya> I and genii discussed setting sftp and scp to the following:
[08:39] <aaditya> "SFTP (SSH File Transfer Protocol) provides file transfer and manipulation functionality across networks over !SSH. SCP is a secure way of copying files over !SSH. Usage: `scp filename user@host:filename`. For more info: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SSH/TransferFiles. WinSCP is a client for Windows, available at http://winscp.net/"
[08:39] <aaditya> I also proposed pointing WinSCP to the same factoid
[08:40] <Pici> Theres really not a lot of information about sftp on that wiki page
[08:41] <aaditya> yes
[08:41] <aaditya> Gnome and KDE support the sftp protocol scheme by default
[08:41] <aaditya> though
[08:45] <Pici> aaditya: If you can come up with a (preferably) short factoid for sftp that doesn't just have a link to 1 sentence about it then I'll add it.
[08:47] <gnomefreak> secure ftp (nss IIR) and link to a wiki but that is exactly what you are not looking for
[08:49] <gnomefreak> aaditya: Pici man sftp the description should have enough in it for factiod
[08:50]  * gnomefreak just did that
[08:50] <aaditya> gnomefreak: yes, but that's sftp program
[08:50] <Pici> I'm not running on enough sleep to come up with a factoid from scratch.
[08:51] <aaditya> i'm preparing a factoid for SFTP protocol; will have it ready in another minute
[08:51] <gnomefreak> aaditya: the problem being?
[08:53] <gnomefreak> aaditya: add info about the app. the protocol should be added to that. info app; than link it to something about protocol, Just using protocol isnt helpfull if people dont know what the app does/is
[08:53] <aaditya> gnomefreak: yes. check this out:
[08:53] <aaditya> SFTP (SSH File Transfer Protocol) provides file transfer and manipulation functionality across networks over !SSH. SFTP is supported in Gnome and KDE by default. For more info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SSH_File_Transfer_Protocol. WinSCP is a client for Windows: http://winscp.net/
[08:53] <elky> !sftp is <alias> ssh
[08:54] <elky> !sftp
[08:54] <Pici> hugonormous factoid
[08:54] <gnomefreak> yeah a bit big
[08:54] <aaditya> it does not explain what sftp is...
[08:54] <gnomefreak> SSH is the Secure SHell protocol,
[08:55] <gnomefreak> it does
[08:55] <aaditya> that link to docs has been changed to https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SSH
[08:55] <gnomefreak> if we add the last link to the 2nd link that will make it a bit smaller
[08:56] <aaditya> Information about SSH server is a part of the wiki page, so we can take that off
[08:56] <Flannel> The last link is the only one that mentions sftp at all.  If you're going to remove that, youreally ought to make a separate factoid for sftp
[08:57] <Flannel> a !sftp factoid that mentions sftp two times removed isn't really great
[08:57] <gnomefreak> have windows info on one of the links that tells you what sftp instead of in faction
[08:57] <gnomefreak> -n +d
[08:58] <aaditya> SSH is the Secure SHell protocol, see: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SSH. Putty is an SSH client for Windows: http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/putty/. For transferring files over SSH, check !SCP and !SFTP
[08:58] <aaditya> even the "advanced SSH uses" page is linked from the wiki, so we don't need to have that in the factoid
[09:00] <gnomefreak> the problem with that is sftp is alias to ssh so any link we have htere needs to point to both or make it separate
[09:00] <aaditya> SSH is the Secure SHell protocol, see: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SSH. For transferring files over SSH, check !SCP and !SFTP. Putty is an SSH client for Windows: http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/putty/
[09:00] <aaditya> gnomefreak: it'd be better to make the separate
[09:01] <gnomefreak> no really since it does same thing, if the link talks about ssh ftp and sftp it would work great
[09:01] <gnomefreak> s/no/not
[09:01] <gnomefreak> too early for me to make edit wikis
[09:02] <aaditya> i'm not sure about that because SSH is a shell, while SFTP is a way of transferring files. They certainly use the same protocol, but a user perceives them differently.
[09:03] <gnomefreak> http://www.openssh.org/ is helpful and nice sort of it is mainly about the suite
[09:03] <gnomefreak> aaditya: that is the same as ftp and since they both use ssh i dont see a problem
[09:04] <gnomefreak> !openssh
[09:05] <Pici> I personally think thats too much information.
[09:05] <aaditya> Pici: I agree
[09:05] <gnomefreak> Pici: it is and it really should mention that it is a suite and brings in ftp sftp ect...
[09:05] <gnomefreak> or link to http://www.openssh.org/
[09:05] <Pici> You can modify it ;)
[09:06] <aaditya> i have a feeling that newbies will have a hard time understanding the suite
[09:06] <gnomefreak> give me a few more hours to wake up. i have been up less than 30 minutes so far
[09:07] <gnomefreak> ??? install openssh since you sort of have to anyway for use of ssh
[09:07] <aaditya> there are often people in #ubuntu who are fed up with samba. It'd be easy to show them a SFTP factoid to explain them how to get a better functionality in terms of file sharing.
[09:07] <gnomefreak> !samba
[09:09] <gnomefreak> aaditya: its a differnet factiod for samba than ssh so i dont see an issue with that. the link we have for ssh is good only need to shorten it IMHO
[09:09] <Flannel> ssh is installed by default
[09:09] <aaditya> We'd be better off helping them setting up SFTP rather than solving Samba problems ;)
[09:09] <Flannel> (client)
[09:09] <gnomefreak> samba is a pian in the but to use
[09:09] <gnomefreak> aaditya: people will use samba and would need help
[09:09] <gnomefreak> Flannel: not default
[09:10] <gnomefreak> ssh:
[09:10] <gnomefreak>   Installed: (none)
[09:10] <gnomefreak>   Candidate: 1:5.1p1-5ubuntu1
[09:10] <aaditya> my proposal is to create a separate SFTP factoid so that we could allow users to switch to SFTP
[09:10] <Flannel> gnomefreak: "ssh" is both server and client (metapackage)
[09:10] <Flannel> openssh-client
[09:11] <gnomefreak> aaditya: to sparate it from ssh/ftp is not helpful since they are pretty much related. sftp is a more secure ftp and as i recall man ftp has a secure switch in it
[09:11] <Myrtti> are you SERIOUSLY suggesting that people should use ssh and sftp over samba?
[09:11] <aaditya> Myrtti: Yes, seriously.
[09:12] <Tm_T> I haven't used samba in 4 years now I think (:
[09:12] <gnomefreak> it doesnt make any sense to me. I say link sftp to ssh/ftp shorten it and call it a day. 
[09:12] <Pici> Windows cannot easily mount anything other than samba.
[09:13] <gnomefreak> make a wiki and we will link it to that
[09:13] <Tm_T> Pici: what about people without Windows?
[09:13] <gnomefreak> if it has enough good info on it
[09:13] <Myrtti> Tm_T: we live in the real world
[09:13] <Myrtti> Tm_T: NFS.
[09:13] <aaditya> for those who want a change, or have a choice, WinSCP and Putty do a reasonably good job
[09:13] <Tm_T> Myrtti: I know, just said (:)
[09:13] <gnomefreak> Tm_T: mac can use samba cant it?
[09:13] <Tm_T> gnomefreak: no idea, but I guess yes
[09:14] <Pici> aaditya: Thats not a mounted filesystem
[09:14] <Myrtti> the performance of ssh in *LAN* file transfer is so bad it shouldn't be suggested to replace samba
[09:14] <Tm_T> Myrtti: aye, that too
[09:14] <Myrtti> and samba shouldn't be used in WAN connections anyway
[09:14]  * gnomefreak sneaks away for a smoke ;)
[09:14] <aaditya> Pici: there is a windows program to "mount" SSH drives. i'll look it up now
[09:14] <Pici> aaditya: I know, I'm using it here. 
[09:14] <Myrtti> I'd rather use samba than ssh to transfer stuff in a LAN anytime
[09:15] <Myrtti> (though I prefer NFS, since I don't have windows machinery)
[09:15] <Tm_T> Myrtti: I don't but that's then again me, as I don't use LAN transfers that often
[09:15] <Myrtti> Tm_T: I used to do my backups to my homeserver, and doing it over ssh is a MAJOR pain in the butt
[09:15] <Tm_T> Myrtti: I can imagine, yes
[09:16] <Myrtti> ssh quadrupled the transfer time, and strained the processors of both machines to idiotic amounts
[09:16] <Tm_T> aye, it's cpu-intensive with enough traffic
[09:16] <Myrtti> ssh shouldn't be suggested to replace samba, ever. Samba shouldn't be suggested to use over Internet file transfers.
[09:17] <Myrtti> if you want to replace samba, use NFS
[09:17] <Tm_T> agreed
[09:17] <aaditya> !nfs
[09:17] <Myrtti> and if you want to replace samba printers, use cupsd
[09:17] <aaditya> does windows support NFS in any form?
[09:18] <Myrtti> aaditya: samba has a valid usecase in a heterogenious environment
[09:18] <Myrtti> if the network has Windows computers
[09:18] <Pici> I don't believe it has NFS support out of the box.
[09:18] <aaditya> Myrtti: agreed
[09:18] <Myrtti> probably, most likely not.
[09:19] <Myrtti> in my opinion nfs is easier to setup than samba, but it also requires that the network is quite homogenous
[09:20]  * Myrtti feels the need to write a rant blog entry
[09:21] <aaditya> Would it be reasonable to suggest users to setup NFS on their windows box?
[09:21]  * gnomefreak expects a bubble
[09:21] <Myrtti> aaditya: whut?
[09:21] <aaditya> Myrtti: i got my answer ;)
[09:22] <Myrtti> aaditya: as I just said, NFS isn't for networks with an intention to share files between Windows computer(s) to others
[09:22] <Myrtti> linux is the most flexible part of the equasion
[09:23] <aaditya> ok. For those who wish to transfer files securely over WAN, should be have a separate factoid for SFTP?
[09:23] <Myrtti> aaditya: doesn't the SFTP factoid already cover it?
[09:23] <aaditya> !sftp
[09:24] <aaditya> it doesn't
[09:24] <Myrtti> works like a charm.
[09:24] <Myrtti> oh?
[09:24] <gnomefreak> not really since it is the same as ftp -x (doesnt feel like looking the switch up but i would guess either -s or -S
[09:24] <aaditya> Myrtti: it does not mention file transfer at all
[09:25] <aaditya> Myrtti: and it's too long. i'll copy paste a replacement for !SSH that I proposed earlier.
[09:25] <gnomefreak> links do and maybe use tiny link to create the links. at least than it will shorten the factiod
[09:25] <aaditya> SSH is the Secure SHell protocol, see: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SSH. For transferring files over SSH, check !SCP and !SFTP. Putty is an SSH client for Windows: http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/putty/
[09:26] <gnomefreak> separate ssh factiod makes no sense since ftp sftp uses ssh
[09:26] <aaditya> we don't need the other two links since those are mentioned in the wiki docs
[09:26] <Myrtti> so, has there been an agreement *NOT* to edit that factoid to that form?
[09:26] <Myrtti> or what are we discussing here for?
[09:26] <gnomefreak> +1 Myrtti 
[09:27] <aaditya> there hasn't been any agreement yet
[09:27] <Myrtti> jolly good.
[09:28] <Tm_T> I say no for separate sftp factoid, include it to ssh
[09:28] <Tm_T> and/or ftp
[09:28] <Myrtti> oh for gods sake
[09:28] <aaditya> Tm_T: that works
[09:28]  * Myrtti vanishes to work
[09:28] <gnomefreak> https://help.ubuntu.com/9.04/serverguide/C/openssh-server.html should mention putty IMHO but it has to have doc team member to change it
[09:29] <Tm_T> gnomefreak: why not openssh-client?
[09:29] <Myrtti> gnomefreak: wohoo, I'm a member.
[09:29] <gnomefreak> Tm_T: good point
[09:29] <Myrtti> https://edge.launchpad.net/%7Emyrtti/+participation
[09:29] <Tm_T> gnomefreak: and I was partly kidding, though I believe you can use it with KDE in Windows too (;)
[09:31] <aaditya> apparently fccf didn't realize that he was telling ubottu to modify a factoid
[09:31] <gnomefreak> at the very least we should use ubuntu links since we are supporting it. for example http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/putty/ should use ubuntu link instead
[09:32] <gnomefreak> aaditya: not many people do
[09:32] <aaditya> gnomefreak: ubuntu link as in?
[09:32] <gnomefreak> as in a wiki or a ubuntu doc
[09:33] <aaditya> gnomefreak: yeah
[09:33] <gnomefreak> since its all about connecting to windows -> linux and vice versa
[09:34] <aaditya> in addition to that, it's also about linux <-> linux
[09:34] <aaditya> we don't want windows, remember bug #1? ;)
[09:34] <gnomefreak> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SSH/OpenSSH/ConnectingTo
[09:34] <gnomefreak> aaditya: that is why i said vice versa
[09:35] <gnomefreak> that link mentions putty fairly well IMHO
[09:35] <gnomefreak> and other windows apps like cygwin
[09:36] <aaditya> gnomefreak: true. the putty link should be replaced with this one.
[09:38] <gnomefreak> other than that change shorten it and done but the shortening it is the problem since there is very little info in the factiod other than links but i am out of ideas
[09:38] <aaditya> SSH is the Secure SHell protocol, see: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SSH. For transferring files over SSH, see !SCP or !SFTP. Connecting via SSH from different platforms: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SSH/OpenSSH/ConnectingTo
[09:38] <gnomefreak> oh and MAC does use the same as
[09:38] <gnomefreak> us
[09:39] <aaditya> yes
[09:39] <gnomefreak> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SSH.== bad link
[09:39] <gnomefreak> ah remove the . from it
[09:39] <aaditya> it's the dot in the end
[09:40] <gnomefreak>  instead use a | or something
[09:40] <aaditya> SSH is the Secure SHell protocol; see: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SSH | For transferring files over SSH, see !SCP or !SFTP. Connecting via SSH from different platforms: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SSH/OpenSSH/ConnectingTo
[09:40] <Myrtti> so we're still having the separate factoids?
[09:40] <aaditya> let's replace the second dot too
[09:40] <aaditya> SSH is the Secure SHell protocol; see: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SSH | For transferring files over SSH, see !SCP or !SFTP | Connecting via SSH from different platforms https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SSH/OpenSSH/ConnectingTo
[09:40] <Myrtti> several have already protested that
[09:40] <gnomefreak> Myrtti: no i am aginst that but im only 1 person
[09:40] <aaditya> Myrtti: not a separate one
[09:41] <gnomefreak> just fix this one a little
[09:41] <aaditya> Myrtti: SFTP should still point to something meaningful, like FTP or SCP
[09:41] <aaditya> not FTP, since that's about FTP clients
[09:42] <gnomefreak> see !SCP or !SFTP in factiod suggests they are different
[09:42] <aaditya> let's also remove !SFTP from the SSH one above
[09:42] <aaditya> SSH is the Secure SHell protocol; see: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SSH | For transferring files over SSH, see !SCP | Connecting via SSH from different platforms https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SSH/OpenSSH/ConnectingTo
[09:42] <aaditya> and one colon before the last link
[09:42] <Myrtti> so currently sftp and ssh are the same
[09:43] <gnomefreak> maybe use SSH, for more info see !scp
[09:43] <Myrtti> so you *do* want separate factoids?
[09:43] <aaditya> Myrtti: no, currently SFTP points to SSH
[09:43] <Myrtti> aaditya: ie. are the same
[09:43] <aaditya> Myrtti: I believe that SFTP should point to SCP, not SSH
[09:43]  * Myrtti goes to get more coffee
[09:43] <aaditya> Myrtti: I agree that SFTP shouldn't be a separate factoid..
[09:44] <gnomefreak> why? sftp/ftp use SSH 
[09:44] <gnomefreak> !scp
[09:44] <aaditya> gnomefreak: lol we should discuss that afterwards. let's fix !SSH first
[09:45] <Myrtti> gnomefreak: what's sftp/ftp?
[09:45] <Myrtti> is this some new technical innovation I've not heard of?
[09:45] <Tm_T> not ssh sftp implementation, I guess
[09:45] <gnomefreak> Myrtti: what do you mean?
[09:45] <gnomefreak> oh the /
[09:45] <aaditya> o.o
[09:46] <Myrtti> ftps != sftp != ftp
[09:46] <Tm_T> indeed
[09:46] <Myrtti> totally different animals, all of them
[09:46] <aaditya> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FTP_over_SSH#FTP_over_SSH_.28not_SFTP.29
[09:48] <Myrtti> hohii
[09:48] <Myrtti> so theres
[09:48] <Myrtti> a) ftp b) ftp over ssh c) ftps d) sftp
[09:49]  * Myrtti rolls the roulette
[09:49] <aaditya> haha
[09:49] <Myrtti> if you weren't confused enough about this factoid editing business, now you're screwed
[09:49] <Myrtti> oh and e) ssh
[09:50] <Myrtti> lets toss in telnet, samba, nfs and sshfs in the same mix
[09:50] <Tm_T> don't forget telnet?
[09:50] <Flannel> and sneakernet!
[09:50] <Tm_T> bah
[09:50] <aaditya> and rsh
[09:50] <Myrtti> wohoo
[09:50] <Myrtti> the old factoid seems so nice now
[09:50] <gnomefreak> tthey screwed up latest nightly of gwibber :( now to clear you have to clear than refresh
[09:50] <aaditya> haha
[09:51] <aaditya> let's start over
[09:51] <aaditya> SSH is the Secure SHell protocol; see: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SSH | For transferring files over SSH, see !SCP | Connecting via SSH from different platforms https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SSH/OpenSSH/ConnectingTo
[09:51] <aaditya> does it look good?
[09:51] <gnomefreak> telnet sends password in clear text
[09:51] <Tm_T> aaditya: why separate scp ?
[09:51] <aaditya> !scp
[09:51] <gnomefreak> its pretty much on the same level
[09:51] <aaditya> Tm_T: because it would be too much info in one factoid otherwise
[09:53] <aaditya> could someone update the SSH factoid?
[09:54]  * gnomefreak can care less about scp since it is the same concept as ssh only difference iin the factiods is a windows link
[09:54] <gnomefreak> - concept
[09:54] <aaditya> gnomefreak: concept might be the same, but they do different things
[09:55] <gnomefreak> thew do same things but with different features
[09:55] <gnomefreak> they even
[09:55] <aaditya> gnomefreak: i can't agree on this one
[09:55] <gnomefreak> copying files is what this is all about
[09:56] <gnomefreak> ftp sftp ssh and so on all are used to copy files
[09:56] <aaditya> gnomefreak: SSH is not about copying files. It's about a remote Shell.
[09:56] <gnomefreak> aaditya: it is used by other apps to copy files
[09:57] <gnomefreak> why doesnt it update itself after using clear bug or feature
[10:00]  * aaditya jumps off a cliff
[10:37] <Tm_T> hmm, are we aware of #ubuntu-love channel ?
[10:38] <ikonia> utter tosh
[10:38] <ikonia> this "let people create any channel they want" is stupid in my opinion
[10:39] <ikonia> its got a cloaked locobot in it
[10:39] <Tm_T> so whe should know of it?
[10:39] <ikonia> I don't know of it
[10:40] <ikonia> that doesn't mean it's not valid
[10:40] <ikonia> I don't think it is, as it's a.) got no topic b.) what in the world could #ubuntu-love be about 
[10:40] <Tm_T> then why it has that locobot then?
[10:40] <ikonia> I don't know
[10:40] <Tm_T> I'm just wondering (:
[10:40] <Myrtti> because it's got jdub
[10:40] <Tm_T> ah
[10:40] <Myrtti> ask jdub what he thought at the time
[10:51] <topyli> #gnome-love on gimpnet is for newbies looking for easy tasks and trivial bugs so that they can get started
[10:52] <topyli> perhaps someone has thought about creating something similar
[10:52] <Myrtti> I guess that's the same here then
[11:11] <Tm_T> erUSUL: not entirely, there's parts which gets ignored
[11:11] <erUSUL> feel free to edit it :)
[11:11] <Tm_T> unfortunately I have no knowledge nor time (;)
[11:12] <Tm_T> ofcourse I can always say "noooooooo!!1" (;)
[11:12] <erUSUL> Tm_T: a factoid is not a wiki or man page... 
[11:12] <jussi01> erUSUL: a link could be useful - perhaps a wiki entry about this?
[11:12] <Tm_T> erUSUL: I know
[11:13] <Tm_T> still I tend to use time to think it properly
[11:13] <erUSUL> jussi01: well there are factoids more needed of some love that this new one... the sound and fixres ones como to mind
[11:14] <jussi01> erUSUL: you are welcome to love them also.... :D
[11:14] <erUSUL> Tm_T: but anyway i think it would save me some typing in #ubuntu. Nothing lost for trying. Good day.
[11:14] <jussi01> erUSUL: thing is, Im not adding incomplete factoids ;)
[11:15] <Myrtti> meh
[11:15] <Tm_T> ...
[11:15] <Tm_T> we didn't hug him enough?
[11:25] <Pici> i bet
[11:25] <ikonia> so #ubuntu-love is basically #ubuntu-simple - which is the multi-teir support process that has been rjected many times ?
[11:25] <Pici> #ubuntu-love?
[11:25] <ikonia> Pici: yup, Tm_T noted a channel called #ubuntu-lve
[11:25] <ikonia> love
[11:26] <Pici> Sounds like a hippie channel
[11:27] <Pici> or would that be #ubuntu-free-love
[11:28] <Myrtti> if you suggest that it should have members of #ubuntu-women as decoys, I'll kill you.
[11:28] <Myrtti> I'll come over the cable and seriously hurt you
[11:28]  * Pici shrugs, is running on no sleep
[11:29] <Pici> I'd never say that.
[11:29] <elky> ikonia, #ubuntu-love has been around for longer than -ot iirc.
[11:30] <Myrtti> Pici: I know you wouldn't, after all my venting and ranting
[11:30] <elky> not quite. it's a jdub thing though, and hasnt been touched since 3 weeks after it was made.
[11:31] <ikonia> no way
[11:31] <ikonia> >/shock>
[12:56] <tsimpson> genii: it means it was forgotten (!search putty)
[14:08]  * genii sips
[14:08]  * Pici blinks
[15:03]  * genii makes a *lot* more coffee
[15:10]  * jussi01 eats another grumblefish
[15:49] <Myrtti> ubottu: tell fafaz about pm
[17:39] <genii> I'm so tempted to debate the merits of pornography now in -ot . But I'll refrain
[17:40] <Myrtti> lenna? *grin*
[17:40] <genii> I have no idea what lenna is
[17:40] <Myrtti> google it, dear
[18:03] <jussi01> haha
[18:04] <Tm_T> Myrtti: suggesting something like that is against channel policy, isn't it?
[18:05] <Seeker`> like what?
[18:05] <genii> Flog me instead, I deserve it
[18:07] <Flannel> Tm_T: Lena is a standard image [compression/manipulation/whatever] algorithm benchmark, I can't see how it'd be against channel policy
[18:07] <Tm_T> Flannel: see again
[18:08]  * Myrtti hides in shame
[18:08] <Flannel> again?
[18:08] <jussi01> oh meh...
[18:08] <jussi01> move on
[18:08] <Myrtti> Flannel: I seem to be getting proficient in making an ass out of myself
[18:08] <Myrtti> -->
[18:28] <jussi01> Im just running out, maybe someon wants to sort this out: [20:26:29] --> man_sex (n=cha-hell@114.121.91.226) has joined #ubuntu
[18:35] <Jack_Sparrow> I'll ask nicely if they will change their nick
[18:37] <Seeker`> Jack_Sparrow: I think you may have been a little premature on calling OT
[18:37] <Jack_Sparrow> Seeker` noted, but the whole dod vs hippa law was dragging out
[18:38] <Jack_Sparrow> gordonjcp Refused to listen and just got rude in channel over it
[18:38] <Myrtti> Jack_Sparrow: perhaps you should have asked some other ops' opinion?
[18:38] <Myrtti> just a suggestion
[18:39] <Jack_Sparrow> Ill read back through
[18:48] <Seeker`> Jack_Sparrow: reread it?
[18:48] <Jack_Sparrow> The log was not up to date and neither was scrollback.. hold on
[18:53] <Seeker`> how can scrollback not be up to date?
[18:54] <Jack_Sparrow> scrollback has a limited size
[18:54] <Jack_Sparrow> the logs go until 18:00
[18:54] <Seeker`> what about bantracker?
[18:55] <Jack_Sparrow> @login
[18:55] <Jack_Sparrow> @btlogin
[18:56] <Jack_Sparrow> Seeker` Put the log into a pastebin and we can both look it over
[18:57] <Seeker`> its gonna be awkward for me to extract the whole thing
[18:58] <Seeker`> I can paste a /lastlog gordonjcp
[18:59] <Myrtti> or just wait few minutes, an have the irclogs.ubuntu.com
[19:01] <Jack_Sparrow> NOt a problem, I have been wrong before, but I was not about to let him continue getting mouthy in channel .  His point was that if a person is using ubuntu then it is not offtopic.  The entire conversation was about formatting a partition on a windows machine so the machine could be given away.  then drifted into dod and hippa laws
[19:51] <Seeker`> Jack_Sparrow: do you think he could be unbanned then?
[19:52] <Jack_Sparrow> Seeker` HE said he had long quit suppoting ubuntu.. as in..  one sec..
 tbh this is why I stopped supporting ubuntu maintainers with my own software, and why I stopped generally helping out in the channel
[19:53] <Jack_Sparrow> Seeker` that ot on dod/hippa lasted over half an hour... 
[19:54] <Jack_Sparrow> Seeker` http://paste.ubuntu.com/185929/        are the basics.  I have no problem unbanning him. I asked him to read the coc and guidelines and never heard back
[19:56] <Jack_Sparrow> Seeker` Ban removed.  I stick by my opinion of that as offtopic and gordons response in channel was not acceptable.  even for a fi user
[19:57] <Myrtti> Jack_Sparrow: and I think you should have called another op to look in and mediate
[19:57] <Jack_Sparrow> I have never seen that done for offtopic
[19:58] <Jack_Sparrow> Do you think you may be a bit partial for another fi user
[19:58] <Myrtti> he's not finnish
[19:58] <Myrtti> he's from scotland, just happens to have a server here on somebodys bedroom
[19:58] <Jack_Sparrow> n=gordonjc@symmetria.fi
[19:59] <Myrtti> a bit like half of the kubuntu ops seem to be ircing from jussi01's closet
[19:59] <Myrtti> :-D
[19:59] <Pici> :)
[19:59] <Jack_Sparrow> :)
[20:03] <Myrtti> he's one of the oldest entities of -offtopic and #ubuntu and as such might not totally happy with the changes the channels have gone through over the years. I do agree that if he wants to stay out because of these issues, he's welcome to do so, but I still wouldn't have used kick/kb to get the point through
[20:04] <Jack_Sparrow> That was not until after the personal insults..  but understood
[20:05] <Myrtti> however I'm not going to invite him here, or invite him to #ubuntu, or discuss with him on pm - I know his personality to some degree and he's quite flamboyant to say the least
[20:06] <Jack_Sparrow> To say the least..
[20:06] <Myrtti> and doing anything else than just removing the ban would just make things worse
[20:06] <Jack_Sparrow> That has already been done
[20:06] <Myrtti> yup
[20:06] <Myrtti> which is why I'll just say ins'allah and move on
[20:18] <jussi01> *wave*
[20:19] <Jack_Sparrow> jussi01 And what about all of these shell accounts coming from your closet
[20:19] <jussi01> what?
[20:20] <jussi01> its my mates office, not my closet, get it right
[20:20] <Jack_Sparrow> Myrtti Said <Myrtti> a bit like half of the kubuntu ops seem to be ircing from jussi01's closet
[20:20] <Myrtti> kekekekeke
[20:20] <Myrtti> *snerk*
[20:20] <Jack_Sparrow> It wasn't me officer, it was my friend
[20:20] <Myrtti> it wasn't me, it was the one armed man
[20:21] <Jack_Sparrow> Gag me, I will be putting up a windows box today.. just for my phone system
[20:21] <genii> It's that darn quassel. So cute and handy.
[20:21] <jussi01> *g*
[20:21] <jussi01> hows that? :D
[20:21] <Myrtti> oh noes :-×
[20:21] <Jack_Sparrow> ouch
[20:21]  * Myrtti zips up
[20:22] <Myrtti> !prayer | jussi01 
[20:22] <Myrtti> *slap*
[20:22] <Mamarok> wow, great!
[20:22] <genii> I wonder if any religious types have ever called that factoid in a public channel
[20:23] <Myrtti> genii: that's my personal prayer which I chant on a day-to-day basis
[20:23] <Jack_Sparrow> not that I have seen
[20:23] <Myrtti> when I'm really, really, really ticked
[20:23] <Myrtti> Jack_Sparrow: /msg ubottu ♥ 
[20:24]  * genii contemplates this utf-8 bot
[20:24] <jussi01> ladies and gents, we have a lot of bans in here, perhaps a few might need review? ;)
[20:26] <Myrtti> jussi01: you're free to review mine as I've reviewed yours in #ubuntu :-P
[20:27] <jussi01> hrm
[20:27] <jussi01> well theres a few that can go, just from looking at them
[20:27] <Jack_Sparrow> As always, mine are all reviewable, other than two I think that were specifically noted.
[20:27]  * Myrtti feels really tired
[20:27] <genii> I only have about ten. What's considered excessive?
[20:28]  * Pici *is* really tired
[20:28] <Jack_Sparrow> :)
[20:29] <jussi01> c-0-r-e was klined, no?
[20:32] <Pricey> 19:31:37 -!- 0 - #ubuntu: ban mirc_ [by niven.freenode.net, 10850555 secs ago]
[20:32] <Pricey> 19:31:37 -!- 0 - #ubuntu: ban "Oracle*GreenDiamond" [by niven.freenode.net, 10850555 secs ago]
[20:32] <Pricey> 19:31:37 -!- 0 - #ubuntu: ban "Oracle [by niven.freenode.net, 10850555 secs ago]
[20:32] <Pricey> 19:31:38 -!- 0 - #ubuntu: ban "For [by niven.freenode.net, 10850556 secs ago]
[20:32] <Pricey> 19:31:38 -!- 0 - #ubuntu: ban "For?you?ST47?:)?<3?w00t" [by niven.freenode.net, 10850556 secs ago]
[20:32] <jussi01> Pricey: ?
[20:33] <Pricey> Unless anyone thinks any of those look like they should stay... I'm going to remove them from #ubuntu later. The last 4 just seem... odd...
[20:33] <Pici> I'm guessing +d ?
[20:33] <Pricey> yep
[20:33] <jussi01> yeah, they look odd...
[20:35] <Pricey> I'm sure half of those bans could go too.
[20:35] <Pricey> I also just noticed that eternaljoy is banned by unaffiliated cloak in #ubuntu, though he was in there yesterday. (vorian)
[20:37] <jussi01> lovely...
[20:38] <Pricey> I don't think he raised any eyebrows so I'm sure he's fine to continue visiting... so is that ban still needed?
[21:07]  * Myrtti throws a flashbang on the floor and sneaks to bed
[21:11] <jussi01> !mint | Mamarok
[21:12] <Mamarok> thx, will remind her/him
[21:14] <jussi01> hrm, if I could be bothered Id write a factoid about the folderview thing and how to get "old style" desktop back
[22:24] <Mamarok> I am that close to kick adam...
[22:26] <Pricey> shove him to a support channel
[22:26] <Pricey> mute him if you really think it necessary
[22:27] <Mamarok> Pricey: well, OS bashing is trolling, no?
[22:28] <Pricey> bah, getting confused between channels