sbalneavEvening all04:00
stgraberevening sbalneav04:01
sbalneavstgraber: Patch looked ok to you?04:05
stgrabersbalneav: yep04:10
sbalneavIt seems to cure the problem for me.04:11
stgrabersbalneav: can you merge it ?04:28
sbalneavMind if I do it tomorrow?04:34
sbalneavI'm knee deep in ldap right now :)04:34
highvoltagegood morning stgraber and sbalneav04:34
stgraberhi highvoltage04:34
stgrabersbalneav: np04:34
stgrabercouldn't wait ... just ordered a new laptop :)04:35
sbalneavCool, what kind?04:37
stgraberlenovo x200s04:38
stgraberyep, quite expensive but the hardware seems awesome for a laptop of that size :)04:40
stgraber(the CPU from my current laptop is actually faster but it's a lot bigger too and doesn't stay up long on battery)04:41
sbalneavI've gone small.  I've got an Acer Aspire One, and I love it.04:43
highvoltagelenovo x200 = <304:43
stgraberhighvoltage: saw too many of them in Barcelona, couldn't resist buying one ;)05:00
sbalneavHmmm, looks like ldapscripts does most of what we want, in terms of setting up the initial ou's.05:21
sbalneavThe templating system's fine, but we'll need to get something in there for handling password expiry, and account disabling.05:22
stgrabersbalneav: did you look at GoSA ?05:23
sbalneavthere'll be some mods to the scripts needed, and some mode defaults added to the templates.05:23
stgraberweb interface on top of ldap for easy user management, ACLs and templating05:23
stgraberrequires an openldap and some custom ldap schema, other than that it works just fine (we're using it at Revolution Linux for some customers)05:24
sbalneavDoesn't ubuntu want something in general that will tie in with administration->users and groups?05:25
stgraberwell, users and groups would need quite a lot of work to work correctly with large ldap deployments then05:27
sbalneavWell, users-and-groups is ok, as a front end.  The problem is the system-tools-backends package.05:27
stgraberI don't know if you tried doing a "getent passwd" on a LDAP server with 40000 users but that can take a while ;) so you'd need a tool that's quite good at doing filtering05:27
sbalneavWell, I don't have 40000 users, no.  But my understanding is (at least with openldap) that usually by default, there's very little indexing.05:29
sbalneavI'm certainly not AGAINST a web tool, however, it means that, for people who want local users and groups, they use one tool, and for people who want ldap, they *right away* have to learn another tool.05:30
sbalneavMy preferred solution would be for small and medium, either local or ldap, if they can use adm-uag, and if they've got 40,000 users and GoSA does a better job of large deployments, then they can switch to that.05:31
sbalneavBut I'm willing to suspect that our 90% use-case will be "under 500" users.05:32
sbalneavAnother big thing that people seem to want is some kind of bulk import tool.05:32
sbalneavi.e. I have a spreadsheet of names, and I want to turn them all into users05:32
alkisgsbalneav++ :) (and good morning all)05:34
sbalneavMorning alkisg05:34
stgraberyeah, that's quite usual for schools to have that kind of files05:34
sbalneavI suspect we can hash it out a little more at the next meeting.05:34
=== hibana_ is now known as hibana
sbalneavMorning all14:47
bencrisfordstgraber: Ping16:58
LaserJockmorning everybody17:22
LaserJockhighvoltage, stgraber: ping17:26
highvoltageLaserJock: pong17:37
highvoltageLaserJock: good ping timing, I'm at my computer now for the first time today17:37
LaserJockare we going to have an EC meeting to get nubae approved?17:38
highvoltagewell, reviewed at least (we can't assume approval). what time/date?17:39
LaserJockwhenever I guess17:42
highvoltagewould tomorrow be too short notice?17:43
stgraberLaserJock: pong17:44
bencrisfordstgraber: Do I get a pong? :( :P17:44
stgraberbencrisford: pong too17:45
LaserJockhighvoltage: thursday or friday would be better for me17:45
bencrisfordstgraber: Its meant to be my membership meeting today, but im sixth and I can only stay an hour.  Am I likely to be fitted in, or should I apply for a different board?17:45
highvoltageLaserJock: ok I think friday is good then17:46
stgraberbencrisford: I won't stay for much more than an hour either. Depends how many won't be at the meeting17:46
bencrisford1ok :/17:48
highvoltageLaserJock: what time? 16:00 UTC? (or was it 18:00 last time?)17:57
LaserJockwhatever works for you guys17:57
LaserJock16:00-18:00 URC are good times17:58
highvoltageok 18:00 then17:58
stgraberfriday 18:00 UTC, noted18:00
LaserJocksomebody want to send an email?18:00
LaserJockyou know, it's really sad IMO that Linux nerds can spend hours and hours flaming each other on whether to use base 2 or base 10 math but couldn't care less about getting Linux into schools18:02
highvoltageLaserJock: it's not just Linux nerds per se, people generally just suck.18:04
highvoltageLaserJock: shall I send the announcement?18:04
LaserJockhighvoltage: sure awesome18:05
highvoltageLaserJock: but yes, sad nontheless18:06
highvoltageLaserJock, stgraber, (others): https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/Community/MeetingAgenda18:32
highvoltageanything else we should add?18:32
highvoltageI'll post it to the list once we have a bit more in there18:32
stgraberhighvoltage: looks good18:34
LaserJockI think those will actually take up the time18:35
SvenstaroI still didn't spot any UDS updates on the mailing list.18:38
highvoltageok I wanted to add karmic discussion too, but I agree that's probably enough and that we can target the karmic stuff more thoroughly in another meeting18:39
highvoltageLaserJock: stgraber talked to cjwatson about enabling universe for edubuntu builds, and he said that it would be trivial to implement18:40
LaserJockyeah, I actually found the code for it a couple days ago18:40
LaserJockthe problem will be Canonical supportability18:40
highvoltageLaserJock: !18:41
highvoltage(for lack of any words)18:41
LaserJockwe can build with Universe but I wonder how that effects the ability of users to buy support18:41
highvoltageI guess we can care about Canonical supportability again when they acknowledge that edubuntu exists in the first place18:41
highvoltageLaserJock: perhaps this is something that we need to discuss, afaik we were all cool with enabling universe18:42
LaserJockwell, I think we would just want to talk with Canonical18:43
LaserJocklet them know or whatever18:43
highvoltageok, 100%18:43
LaserJockregardless of my feelings about Canonical's position, it's a big shift for our users if they can no longer buy support from Canonical18:43
LaserJockeven if we do add Universe, what's going to happen?18:45
highvoltageLaserJock: stgraber made a good point, we don't want to go through all the hoops of getting something like sugar into main, but it would be nice on the add-on disc18:45
LaserJockdo we drop all of Edubuntu to Universe?18:45
LaserJockdo we just add on stuff that's not in Main right now?18:45
highvoltageLaserJock: well if something is in main and it can stay there I see no point in demoting it18:46
LaserJockhow much and to what kind of .iso?18:46
highvoltageLaserJock: and if it's officially supported it should stay so if possible18:46
LaserJockI actually can see some point18:46
LaserJockright now I'm the only Core Dev18:46
LaserJockif we drop to Universe then you have the whole MOTU team as potential sponsors18:46
highvoltageLaserJock: yep and stgraber can upload some stuff into main18:46
highvoltageLaserJock: *nod* exactly18:46
LaserJockI think using Universe will be a major benefit18:47
LaserJockespecially since we'll have the archive reorganization at some point and the difference will all go away18:47
LaserJock*but* we do need to think about the ramifications and how to best go about it18:47
LaserJockso that'd be a good topic for the meeting18:48
highvoltageindeed. we seem to get a good response from the community council when we ask them about things18:48
highvoltagehmm, perhaps we should ask the technical board about this specific issue?18:48
LaserJockwhat would they decide?18:49
LaserJockhmm, not that you mention it18:49
highvoltagemaybe not so much decide as just give official blessing. although I guess tb != canonical18:49
LaserJock1) we should ask Canonical what would happen if we drop to Universe18:49
LaserJock2) we should ask the TB what to do about the .iso issue (addon or full distro, where is it hosted)18:50
highvoltagewell "drop to universe" sounds harsh. perhaps rather say include packages from universe, since we won't drop main18:50
highvoltageLaserJock: yep. just keep in mind that we said we're planning full iso for karmic18:50
LaserJockwell, there are some apps I would drop to Universe if we did18:50
highvoltageLaserJock: but of course it won't hurt getting all the groundwork done ASAP18:50
LaserJockwhat did we say?18:50
highvoltageehm... full iso for karmic?18:51
highvoltage(or at least not earlier...)18:51
LaserJockI thought we were talking about karmic+1 maybe since it's LTS18:52
nubaeI'm here now18:52
highvoltageLaserJock: ugh, I suck18:52
nubaeI scrolled up and saw my name mentioned18:52
highvoltageLaserJock: I meant karmic+118:52
LaserJockI still think we need to discuss the release strategy here18:52
LaserJockthe consensus seems to be that we focus on LTS releases18:52
LaserJockwhich sounds good18:52
LaserJockbut I'm not sure how that's going to work out in practice18:53
highvoltageLaserJock: yes, sorry I meant loopy not karmic18:53
nubaeI thought I'd mention that its likely I start working for the Junta de Andalucia next month (Guadalinex) which is based on edubuntu and ubuntu and they want much closer ties to the edubuntu project18:53
nubaeu guys have spoken to asanchez I take it18:53
LaserJocknubae: awesome news!18:53
highvoltagenubae: congrats!18:53
nubaeyeah indeed, dream job... stupid pay, but dream job18:53
nubaeso they say its the biggest edu linux deployment world wide18:54
nubaedont know how they are basing that, but sounds like one hell of a test pilot18:54
highvoltageLaserJock: so karmic = add-on disc, karmic+1 = full distro + addon disc (or some variation of this based on future discussion)18:54
LaserJockI'm not sure you can do both18:54
highvoltagenubae: test pilot?18:54
LaserJocknubae: Guadalinex has been a long time, but distant friend18:55
highvoltageLaserJock: I think add-on is important for people who want to support some apps from the edubuntu collection on something other than gnome18:55
LaserJockhighvoltage: right, but I don't think we can get the hosting for both18:55
nubaewell, right now, they are simply installing guadalinex directly on the machines18:55
LaserJockI think Edubuntu will get 1 image/.iso18:55
highvoltageLaserJock: asanches is actually hanging out here and wants to be a full edubuntu developer!18:55
nubaeno distribution method, no ltsp18:55
highvoltageLaserJock: ok18:55
highvoltageLaserJock: well, it's possible to have a live CD repositories on it, the ubuntu live cd is like that currently18:56
highvoltageLaserJock: so perhaps it should just be a combined disc if possible?18:56
LaserJockhighvoltage: I think we need to get some good AptOnCD instructions and have a good metapackage system for internet installs18:56
LaserJockwell, we might be able to do some18:57
LaserJockbut again, the problem is space18:57
nubaeanyway I think I'll recommend to ditch guadalinex and localise edubuntu18:57
highvoltageLaserJock: hosting space?18:57
nubaeso that work isnt done 10 times18:57
LaserJockhighvoltage: we got bumped off of releases.ubuntu.com due to space18:57
highvoltagenubae: asanchez said that they'll use Edubuntu if we sort out the menu problems18:57
LaserJockhighvoltage: we're gonna have to fight to get back on as it is, adding another GB or so will be very difficult18:58
highvoltageLaserJock: I feel strongly that it's totally, totally wrong for us to cripple ourselves in terms of features and what our users want because there's not space on a server18:58
LaserJockhighvoltage: well, I know, but it *is* a limitation, it always has been in Ubuntu18:58
nubaehighvoltage: +1018:58
LaserJockwe can talk with Mark and slangasek to see what can be done18:59
LaserJockmy impression was that Edubuntu was dropped because it wasn't being used much18:59
highvoltageLaserJock: don't we have the option of hosting it elsewhere or buying some disks for them?18:59
nubaeLaserJock: that kind of thinking will take us back to the stone age... take a look at how opensuse-edu is succeding because of their multiple image systems18:59
nubaethey have images for usb/dvd/cd/virtual machine appliances18:59
nubaeand it just really helps18:59
highvoltagenubae: heh, don't get LaserJock started18:59
LaserJocknubae: I totally realize that19:00
LaserJockI'm just being practical and realistic here19:00
LaserJockUbuntu's mirror system is *very* nice to have19:00
LaserJockif we have to make a few compromises I think it could be worth it19:01
highvoltageLaserJock: you're right19:01
SvenstaroUbuntu's mirroring system isn't the end-of-all. There are many people who can and would provide free mirrors for us in case we host elsewhere.19:01
highvoltageLaserJock: I mean, canonical obviously has some restraints and it's not necessarilly their fault, and we need to work with them where we can to make things easier for everybody19:01
LaserJockwell, it's not the end-of-all19:01
nubaeSvenstaro: right, thats whats happened with sugar19:01
nubaegrass roots mirrors19:01
LaserJockbut Ubuntu does have mirrors in  just about *every* country19:01
nubaeworks like a charm19:01
Svenstarowe don't *need* mirrors in just about every country19:02
nubaelook, what I see is that canonical should put SOME commitment to support edubuntu19:02
LaserJockthey do19:02
nubaenot enough19:02
LaserJockwe just need to see how much we can get out of the pie19:02
nubaeall the other distros have MUCH more support from their sponsors19:03
LaserJockwhen I mentioned to Mark that we got dropped he was pretty upset19:03
highvoltagein my strong opinion, edubuntu needs to be a DVD in order to be successful19:03
Svenstarohighvoltage, I fully agree.19:03
LaserJockI think we could talk with him and see if we can get something going19:03
nubaewell, there was all this talk about how important education was and we all know what happened19:03
LaserJock*but* somebody needs to do it19:03
highvoltageI can't think of any other way how we'll be able to meet the needs of our users by sticking to a CD19:03
LaserJocklet's not just ditch everything without trying19:03
nubaeI don't wanna beat a dead horse, but...19:03
highvoltagenubae: please, please don't say opensuse19:03
LaserJockwell, here's my point19:04
nubaehehe, I wasnt going to, but now that u mention it...19:04
nubae:-) :p19:04
LaserJockwith the exception of highvoltage talking with colin19:04
LaserJockI've yet to see anybody here talk to Ubuntu/Canonical about it19:04
highvoltageit was stgraber who talked to cjwatson19:04
LaserJockso we have *no* idea what's possible19:04
highvoltageLaserJock: ok, so we need to open some communication channels19:04
LaserJockso please exhaust the existing resources before heading outside Ubuntu19:04
SvenstaroLaserJock, can't we just go ahead and assume that we ARE being hosted by Canonical and that they will continue?19:05
LaserJockbecause it really is preferable to use Ubuntu resources where possible19:05
highvoltageLaserJock: I feel confident that if we explain to them what we need and why that we'll get a good response19:05
nubaeof course it is19:05
LaserJockSvenstaro: well, the only thing is that we're currently being hosted at ~ 300MB19:05
nubaeright, it would be ludicrous for them to not take edubuntu seriously... but... they need to know that we still care19:05
nubaefrom the emails I've seen from other teams, it seems many think edubuntu is dead19:06
nubaeand should be buried19:06
nubaethat notion needs to dissapear19:06
highvoltagenubae: links please19:06
LaserJockI am confident that if Edubuntu turns around and we build a user base Canonical will be more than happy to host the .isos19:06
SvenstaroLaserJock, I can take over the hosting, it's a non-issue. I'm not a good mirror at just 1TB of traffic but others will do that. Also we have bittorrent.19:06
LaserJockthey're frankly just not going to spend resources on a failed project19:06
highvoltageand recently edubuntu *has* been a failed project19:07
LaserJock*but* somebody does need to ask the release team if it'd be OK for us to work towards getting a DVD19:07
LaserJocklast time I talked with slangasek he said no19:07
LaserJockbut I think with a good plan of what we're doing with it19:07
LaserJockthat there might be more motivation19:07
highvoltageyes, let's just do it through official channels and as formally as possible this time, along with a proposal of what we want on the dvd and how much space it will consume (more or less, of course)19:08
nubaeI see no point in making anything BUT a cd/usb image19:08
nubaethe education packages require that19:08
nubaesorry... DVD, not cd19:08
LaserJockI totally agree19:08
LaserJockthere's no doubt that we need to move towards DVD/usb images19:08
highvoltageif the response is that it absolutely can't happen, and we can't change their mind, then we can create a wiki page explaining why we can't do certain things along with that response19:09
LaserJock*or* just do internet-only19:09
Svenstarohighvoltage, why not just go ahead doing what we want on our own, if that happens?19:09
highvoltageLaserJock: I was surprised at UDS to discover that .za isn't the only country with heavy bandwidth issues, there were other people who also said that a dvd/usb disk would be beneficial because they have no bandwidth at the schools19:09
sbalneavWondered why things were quiet19:10
sbalneavapparently I disconnected.19:10
LaserJockeven in the US a DVD is nice to have19:10
sbalneavAfternoon all19:10
highvoltageSvenstaro: that's kind of what we're doing, but we want to do it properly, and we want to do it the ubuntu way and work with canonical to produce something supportable19:10
highvoltageSvenstaro: we're not currently limited to do much, really19:10
LaserJockZaReason said that a DVD would be most helpful in them selling machines with pre-installed Edubuntu19:10
highvoltageafternoon sbalneav, welcome back19:11
LaserJockwell, let's be clear here19:11
nubaehave to go eat, biab19:11
LaserJockCanonical is *not* doing a lot of things19:11
LaserJockbut Canonical still does a lot of stuff for Ubuntu as a whole19:11
sbalneavSo, I had a look last night at ldapscripts19:12
highvoltagetotally, Canonical does great work on and for Ubuntu, I don't have a slightest doubt about that19:12
sbalneavwhich does probably 85% of what we want.19:12
highvoltagesbalneav: have you been in touch with the ubuntu server team or followed the authentication server discussions that took place at UDS?19:13
LaserJockI don't know why Guadalinex isn't using edubuntu-menus19:13
coz_hey all19:13
LaserJockit's been around since like Edgy19:13
highvoltagesbalneav: there are plans for automating a lot of the ldappy stuff in karmic, but perhaps they can benefit from some of the stuff you work on?19:14
coz_have any issues popped up with edubuntu and compiz?19:14
highvoltageLaserJock: can the edubuntu-menus sort the applications by grade like they have it?19:14
sbalneavhighvoltage: haven't seen a spec yet19:14
LaserJockhighvoltage: it can do whatever you want19:14
sbalneavis there one?19:14
highvoltagecoz_: edubuntu+compiz is exactly the same as ubuntu+compiz19:14
LaserJockcoz_: specifically what?19:14
highvoltagesbalneav: I'm searching for it...19:14
coz_nothing in particular guys just wondering19:15
LaserJockI don't know of any particular issues19:15
LaserJocksome apps work better than others with compositing19:15
highvoltagecoz_: LTSP is doing work on getting compiz in LTSP working nicely, but that's about it in terms of compiz and edubuntu19:16
coz_highvoltage,  ok cool19:16
coz_no one has come into #compiz with edubuntu so I was just wondering if you guys had anyone withissues  no biggie :)19:17
highvoltagesbalneav: here's one, I'm sure there's more on it... looking... https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NetworkDirectoryUserLogin19:17
highvoltagesbalneav: ah here's the other one: https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/server-karmic-directory-enabled-services19:18
highvoltageLaserJock: can I find documentation on edubuntu-menus anywhere?19:23
LaserJockthe package itself is fairly simple and self-explanatory19:24
LaserJockif we really want to make a push for it we'll want documentation of course19:24
LaserJockbut right now it's basically proof-of-concept19:24
highvoltageok, I just want to investigate whether it would be useful for guadalinex19:24
LaserJockUbuntu Studio did use it for the basis of their menus19:25
LaserJockof course it would be :-)19:25
highvoltagecurrently they modify 43 packages to change the .desktop files to get to what they want19:25
LaserJockthe guadalinex case is the *exact* reason I built it19:25
LaserJockyeah, that's really nuts19:25
highvoltageok cool19:25
LaserJockI have no idea why they did that19:25
highvoltagewell I'll try to figure out how it works and will ping you if I get stuck, I'll put together a guide that they can test out19:25
LaserJockbasically they're modifying the menu at the .desktop file level, at the menu items themselves19:25
highvoltageLaserJock: they said that they'd use plain edubuntu if we can get that right19:26
LaserJockwhat i did was to modify the way in which the menu gets built in the first place19:26
highvoltageLaserJock: that's a *big* win imho19:26
highvoltageLaserJock: if canonical still wants to shun us after that they can go... erm (pm)19:26
sbalneavhighvoltage: I've subscribed to both of them, but I have a sinking feeling that, like a lot of previous attempts to "get the ldap situation in ubuntu fixed", they're too ambitious, and won't be met.19:27
LaserJockI don't think Canonical shuns us19:27
LaserJockthey're just not putting resources into projects that aren't working19:28
LaserJockthey've made some mistakes in the past, no doubt19:28
LaserJockbut I believe Mark wants Edubuntu to succeed very much19:28
highvoltagesbalneav: indeed. I do find it encouraging though that there is renewed energy on the issue, and if you have breakthroughs then it would be cool if you shared it on the spec/wiki, imho19:29
sbalneavOne of the big things that would help, is fixing up ldap scripts19:30
sbalneavsorry, ldapscripts19:30
sbalneavit needs 3 things to be useful to us, and should be easy to patch.19:30
sbalneav1) adherance to the "users primary group is same as userid" standard method of doing groups in Linux19:31
sbalneav2) default addition of support for shadow password support (i.e. expiry, passwd aging, disabling, etc.)19:32
highvoltageLaserJock: at the risk of sounding like a broken record, they really should make a plan for server space for us if there's a problem there currently. it's not like disk space is expensive, it's not like we're asking to host some weird bebibuntu derivative or something19:32
LaserJockhighvoltage: right, but we need to request it19:32
SvenstaroLaserJock, I had a peek at all the info you gave me, and it seems the only thing I would have to do is write a 'seed', a package selection and pass it onto the ubuntu release folks?19:32
sbalneav3) a tie in to the systems-tools-backends package.19:32
highvoltagesbalneav: how about adding that to the wiki page/spec?19:32
LaserJockhighvoltage: we got dropped I believe at the last minute because of UNR19:32
LaserJockhighvoltage: but Mark told me that he was surprised about it and that we should get our space back19:33
LaserJockhighvoltage: we just need to make our case and *communicate* with them19:33
highvoltageLaserJock: ok, we're going over things we've been through before, let's move on19:33
LaserJockSvenstaro: we already have seeds19:33
highvoltageLaserJock: what channel should we follow? should we take this up with the TB?19:33
LaserJockSvenstaro: so it would basically just be a matter of modifying or adding a new seed19:34
pygihighvoltage: bleh19:34
pygiwhy is the meeting at that time :(19:34
LaserJockbut there are some bits that do need to be changed so that the current addon disk can be made into a DVD19:34
LaserJockhighvoltage: I would maybe start with cjwatson/slangasek and see19:34
SvenstaroLaserJock, I wasn't able to find the existing seeds. Where would they be?19:34
highvoltageLaserJock: ok19:35
highvoltagepygi: we asked in the channel and that suited people in the euro and american timezones well19:36
pygihighvoltage: :(19:36
pygiI am traveling to my hometown19:36
LaserJockSvenstaro: the seeds for karmic are at https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/edubuntu.karmic19:36
highvoltageLaserJock: how do you want to approach it, should we start a conversation with them on IRC? or e-mail for records?19:36
LaserJockIRC would be fine for initial conversations19:37
LaserJockto see what needs to be done19:37
highvoltagepygi: we wanted to give enough notice since it will be an EC meeting, but we can schedule an EC meeting again for later this month19:37
LaserJockwe just don't know19:37
LaserJockit could be trivial19:37
highvoltagepygi: we'll have other edubuntu meetings at least weekly19:38
pygihighvoltage: translate EC?19:38
highvoltagepygi: si19:38
pygioh well, you have fun then, I have nothing to do here :p19:38
alkisgsbalneav: woah! http://system-tools-backends.freedesktop.org/dbus-spec.html => are these specs actually implemented?19:38
highvoltagesbalneav: btw, it's not that I'm not interested, I just think your input would be really useful to the server team who wants to implement these things19:40
sbalneavalkisg: argh19:46
sbalneavyeah, and THEY don't have anything in there for shadow support either.19:47
sbalneavI had to add shadow support to pam-ldap, I've had to add it to ltsp :)19:47
sbalneavSeems like my whole life is spent getting people to support a standard that's been around for yonks and yonks.19:47
alkisgThey do have a field named "User Encrypted Password"19:48
sbalneavpassword last changed19:48
alkisgAnd I like the network interfaces dbus interface19:48
sbalneavmin password age19:48
sbalneavmax password age19:48
sbalneavIf you can't expire passwords, you will never, EVER be considered even remotely applicable for most corporate, school, or government institutions.19:49
sbalneavMost government/corporate places want password aging every 90 days19:49
sbalneavschools want accounts to auto-expire at the end of the term19:50
alkisgYes, what you're saying is reasonable... I wonder why they didn't put support for that in the spec.19:50
sbalneavBecause everyone forgets it.19:52
LaserJockhighvoltage: well, that's about what I figured19:52
LaserJockit sucks losing the Ubuntu mirrors19:54
highvoltageLaserJock: I'm ok with the answer we have from him, just having it on cdimage is better than nothing, we'll just manually have to arrange some mirrors, if we can get 2 per continent that would already be ok, but let's not get ahead of ourselves19:54
LaserJockwe could put out a call19:54
LaserJockand lean on bittorrent a lot19:54
highvoltageLaserJock: I think the old edubuntu versions and gobuntu can really be removed, but I won't go into that with slangasek now19:54
sbalneavAh, looks as if upstream for systems-tools-backend has support for it.19:55
LaserJockhighvoltage: can you take care of the TB agenda item?19:56
highvoltageLaserJock: just added it19:56
LaserJockok awesome19:56
LaserJockthat's progress!19:56
highvoltagewell, my connection is slow so it might still be posting :)19:56
highvoltageLaserJock: egh, we missed a TB meeting today19:57
highvoltagewe'll just have to catch the next one19:57
LaserJockwe're not in a huge rush19:58
highvoltageI'm anxious for us to make progress though20:00
highvoltagepeople are keeping an eye on the project wondering whether it will flourish of flounder20:00
highvoltageI'd like to show real, steady and constant progress20:01
highvoltagebut I agree, we don't have to rush it20:01
bencrisfordstgraber: I have 50 minutes until the meeting right?20:11
pygihighvoltage: patience my friend, patience is the virtue20:13
highvoltagepygi: that's the best thing I ever heard you say20:14
pygihighvoltage: I am not sure if I should feel insulted or honored :p20:14
highvoltagepygi: hehe20:16
pygihighvoltage: I'll post the video of you singing now!20:16
highvoltagepygi: you're bluffing!20:17
pygiwanna bet? :D20:17
highvoltageno, I'll just stay quiet then.20:17
* highvoltage looks through the CoC to see if there's anything about blackmail20:17
pygihighvoltage: ha! :)20:19
pygiI think I revoked my CoC signature, not sure xD20:19
* bencrisford looks through the CoC to see if there is anything about bribing people for membership testimonials20:20
pygibencrisford: there is20:20
* bencrisford grins :D20:20
bencrisfordoh :(20:20
pygican I give you one advice?20:20
* bencrisford revokes signiture, bribes, then signs again :D20:20
bencrisfordpygi: Can you give me one advice?  Sorry, I don't understand..?20:21
pygiI think I decided after two years of contribution to go for membership20:21
bencrisfordoh ?20:21
pygithe reason is that I had all the doors open without even being a member20:21
pygiin that time I also got some of the packages uploaded in main20:21
bencrisfordwell technically i have20:21
bencrisfordas documentation is in main]20:21
bencrisford:), but i guess that dont count20:22
pygipeople will listen if you have something to say, even if you're member20:22
highvoltagepygi +120:22
pygiguadelinux folks are great example, I think highvoltage and stgraber will agree that we've learned a lot from them20:22
highvoltagethey are good people20:23
pygihighvoltage: ^_^20:23
pygibetter then you for sure :p20:23
* pygi hides from highvoltage's rage20:23
* bencrisford disagrees!20:25
* bencrisford is a proud subsriber of highvoltage's blog20:25
* bencrisford warns pygi not to cross him20:25
bencrisfordor there will be consequences...20:25
pygibencrisford: nah, he's great actually, I just love to joke him around :p20:25
bencrisford:P hehe20:25
bencrisfordif you guys were on the membership board, would you say yes or no to me? :/20:26
pygibencrisford: highvoltage is on the membership board(edubuntu one) but I'd say no20:29
pygiI want you to become a member as well as you, but I don't want you to become a member just for the sake of being a member20:29
bencrisfordthis is ubuntu membership pygi, not edubuntu20:29
pygioh :P still, the same answer :)20:30
bencrisfordand i resent that im being a member for the sake of it, thats far from the truth :P20:30
LaserJockbencrisford: how many testimonials do you have?20:30
* bencrisford mutters... "two.."20:30
bencrisfordbut i haven't told many people i work with on ubuntu about my membership application20:31
bencrisfordmaybe i shoulda done, but i didnt wanna make people feel they had to give me testimonials because im so beautifal and lovely :) :P20:32
LaserJockI don't know, I think it'd be close for me20:33
LaserJockbut I have no idea how the member boards have been doing things for the last year or so20:33
LaserJockbencrisford: you'll certainly get there, it's just a matter of when the time is right20:33
bencrisfordbut in ubuntu, you kind of need it in order to start development according to the wiki...20:34
bencrisfordpeople just dont get taken seriously without the status20:34
bencrisfordthe system sucks IMO20:34
bencrisfordi would be happier if it werent there at all20:34
Svenstarohuh, you need recommendations to be a edubuntu member?20:35
* Svenstaro overhears something after reconnecting20:35
pygiSvenstaro: yes :p20:35
SvenstaroNow that's very open and welcoming for people who want to help out.20:35
pygiI already told you20:36
pygiyou don't have to be a member to contribute20:36
bencrisfordim not becoming an edubuntu member Svenstaro, lol id have no chance of getting that :P20:36
bencrisfordim up for ubuntu membership20:36
SvenstaroLike there was no shortage of contributors or anything :D20:36
highvoltagebencrisford: how long have you been contributing to ubuntu?20:37
Svenstaropygi, that's like, yeah sure we'll take your stuff. What, you want privileges in return? Screw you! Worthless contributor!20:37
pygiSvenstaro: its not like that20:37
bencrisforddunno, a while :P, but I spend most of my time nowadays on ubuntu stuff highvoltage, looking at the criteria - i, personally think I deserve it.  but it doesnt matter what i think :P20:37
highvoltagebencrisford: 6 months? more than a year?20:38
LaserJockbencrisford: there is *absolutely* no requirement for you to be a Member to contribute to development20:38
LaserJockUbuntu Membership is a recognition of effort, not a status symbol20:38
pygiSvenstaro: being a member is just a recognition of your contribution20:39
pygiLaserJock: ++20:39
bencrisfordLaserJock: Not to contribute, but to start joining teams, and incrementing your development roles...  universe-contributors allows people with ubuntu membership or ready for it, its a requirement20:39
highvoltagemembers also get IRC cloaks, @ubuntu.com e-mail addresses, get to post onto the ubuntu planet, in short, they become reprasentatives of ubuntu and you can't hand that out like sweeties20:40
LaserJockbencrisford: I don't think it is a requirement20:40
highvoltageyou need to know that someone can be trusted and that they are in it for the long hauls20:40
bencrisfordyou need to be ready for it at least LaserJock20:40
LaserJockbencrisford: Ubuntu Membership is require for MOTU20:40
bencrisfordand contributors20:40
LaserJockContributors is how you can get Membership20:40
LaserJocklike what we do with Edubuntu20:40
bencrisfordthe universe contributors is an official team20:41
bencrisfordits half way from prospective to motu20:41
LaserJockI helped create it, I'm aware of what it is20:41
bencrisfordoh, well even if you didnt, i know you'd know more than me :), but it does say there20:41
LaserJockwhen you become a Contributing Developer you *get* Membership20:42
bencrisfordi know20:42
LaserJockbut it's not a pre-condition20:42
bencrisfordwell you need to be ready for it20:42
LaserJockand in fact Contributing Developer is not required for anything20:42
LaserJockthe point is, with the exception of some advanced teams, Ubuntu Membership is not required to join teams20:43
bencrisfordwell, i guess, but my point is that ubuntu membership is like a qualification for the ubuntu community20:43
LaserJockand it is flat out not required to contribute20:43
highvoltagebencrisford: I just looked at your wiki page, it's very nice all the things you've been getting involved with20:44
LaserJocklike take dchen20:44
pygibencrisford: haven't I told you that I didn't *WANT* to become a member for two years?20:44
bencrisfordpygi: I don't care if i don't get membership20:44
highvoltagebencrisford: but it seems that it's all very recent things, you might have trouble proving the sustainability part yet20:44
bencrisfordit would just be a nice recognition20:44
pygihighvoltage: it used to be two months sustained contribution20:44
bencrisfordhighvoltage: I'm definately here to stay, and ive had more than two months...20:45
highvoltagepygi: yeah there was a loco session at the UDS where they discussed that there was a perception that membership was given too easily and that it should be fixed20:45
highvoltagebencrisford: I'm not putting you down, just giving some advice. I'm definitely not going to stop you from going for membership20:46
LaserJockfor sure20:46
bencrisfordim not gonna be all that bothered if i don't get membership, you're saying i want it too bad, i dont want it that much at all, it would just be a nice recognition of the nights ive been up in the early hours of the morning triaging bugs :P:P:P20:46
pygihighvoltage: I agree20:46
highvoltagebencrisford: I'm convinced that if you don't get it the first time round, you'll certainly get it in the future if you keep at it20:47
pygibencrisford: I've been up not sleeping for three years now :)20:47
pygi(And joking everyone around me :p)20:47
bencrisfordpygi: Haha :P :)20:47
highvoltagetalking of which, I really need to get some sleep myself20:47
highvoltageg'night edub20:47
bencrisfordnight ;)20:47
pyginight highvoltage20:47
highvoltage*edubuntu (see the stuff I try to autocomplete when I'm sleepy)20:47
pygihighvoltage: cheers dude20:48
sbalneavNight highvoltage20:48
sbalneavAll the server stuff depends on getting Kerberos set up.  Not an insurmountable problem, but puts a LOT more work for the small-time sysadmin to try to learn krb5 concepts.20:59
LaserJockcan that be overcome at all with education/documentation?21:01
bencrisfordWell, wish me luck with the membership meeting ;).  But i'm sixth, so you never know i might not even get fitted in today!21:01
LaserJockbencrisford: good luck!21:02
bencrisfordty :)21:02
bencrisfordbut i can only stay an hour21:02
bencrisfordand im sixth :/21:02
bencrisfordIn case anyone's interested.  I went to the membership meeting, got straight +0s.  So it coulda been worse :).  Nevermind, :/.21:39
bencrisfordhaha!  45 minutes after my membership meeting, my phone reminder for it goes off21:45
bencrisfordtypical :P:P:P21:45
sbalneavstraight +0's?21:46
bencrisfordthey werent -1s21:47
bencrisfordso its not that bad21:47
bencrisfordsbalneav: they just needed more evidence of sustained contribution21:48
bencrisfordand right now i have a wide spread of contributions all over the place, they would like a more sustained contribution in one or two areas21:48
sbalneavTakes a while.  I've been contributing to Free Software for 15 years :)21:49
bencrisfordyeah, and nice :)21:50
pygisbalneav: and you still didnt implement burning over iscsi :P21:52
sbalneavpygi: not a priority for me :)21:53
sbalneavI scratch my own itches :)21:53
pygihow rude :p21:54
sbalneavNo, just practial :)21:54
sbalneavmaybe by retirement, I'll learn how to type21:54
sbalneavWell, I think I'll put in some more work on Sabayon tonight.22:11
sbalneavAfter a week, I've received no feedback on any of my packages.22:11
bencrisfordNight everyone, pygi ;), sbalneav ;), stgraber ;)22:14
sbalneavGood night.22:17
sbalneavOff home for the day.  On later tonight.22:30
asanchezHi all22:30

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