| sbalneav | Evening all | 04:00 |
|---|---|---|
| stgraber | evening sbalneav | 04:01 |
| sbalneav | stgraber: Patch looked ok to you? | 04:05 |
| stgraber | sbalneav: yep | 04:10 |
| sbalneav | It seems to cure the problem for me. | 04:11 |
| stgraber | sbalneav: can you merge it ? | 04:28 |
| sbalneav | Mind if I do it tomorrow? | 04:34 |
| sbalneav | I'm knee deep in ldap right now :) | 04:34 |
| highvoltage | good morning stgraber and sbalneav | 04:34 |
| stgraber | hi highvoltage | 04:34 |
| stgraber | sbalneav: np | 04:34 |
| stgraber | couldn't wait ... just ordered a new laptop :) | 04:35 |
| sbalneav | Cool, what kind? | 04:37 |
| stgraber | lenovo x200s | 04:38 |
| sbalneav | Nice | 04:39 |
| stgraber | yep, quite expensive but the hardware seems awesome for a laptop of that size :) | 04:40 |
| stgraber | (the CPU from my current laptop is actually faster but it's a lot bigger too and doesn't stay up long on battery) | 04:41 |
| sbalneav | I've gone small. I've got an Acer Aspire One, and I love it. | 04:43 |
| highvoltage | lenovo x200 = <3 | 04:43 |
| stgraber | highvoltage: saw too many of them in Barcelona, couldn't resist buying one ;) | 05:00 |
| sbalneav | Hmmm, looks like ldapscripts does most of what we want, in terms of setting up the initial ou's. | 05:21 |
| sbalneav | The templating system's fine, but we'll need to get something in there for handling password expiry, and account disabling. | 05:22 |
| stgraber | sbalneav: did you look at GoSA ? | 05:23 |
| sbalneav | there'll be some mods to the scripts needed, and some mode defaults added to the templates. | 05:23 |
| sbalneav | GoSA? | 05:23 |
| stgraber | web interface on top of ldap for easy user management, ACLs and templating | 05:23 |
| stgraber | requires an openldap and some custom ldap schema, other than that it works just fine (we're using it at Revolution Linux for some customers) | 05:24 |
| sbalneav | Doesn't ubuntu want something in general that will tie in with administration->users and groups? | 05:25 |
| stgraber | well, users and groups would need quite a lot of work to work correctly with large ldap deployments then | 05:27 |
| sbalneav | Well, users-and-groups is ok, as a front end. The problem is the system-tools-backends package. | 05:27 |
| stgraber | I don't know if you tried doing a "getent passwd" on a LDAP server with 40000 users but that can take a while ;) so you'd need a tool that's quite good at doing filtering | 05:27 |
| sbalneav | Well, I don't have 40000 users, no. But my understanding is (at least with openldap) that usually by default, there's very little indexing. | 05:29 |
| sbalneav | I'm certainly not AGAINST a web tool, however, it means that, for people who want local users and groups, they use one tool, and for people who want ldap, they *right away* have to learn another tool. | 05:30 |
| sbalneav | My preferred solution would be for small and medium, either local or ldap, if they can use adm-uag, and if they've got 40,000 users and GoSA does a better job of large deployments, then they can switch to that. | 05:31 |
| sbalneav | But I'm willing to suspect that our 90% use-case will be "under 500" users. | 05:32 |
| sbalneav | Another big thing that people seem to want is some kind of bulk import tool. | 05:32 |
| sbalneav | i.e. I have a spreadsheet of names, and I want to turn them all into users | 05:32 |
| alkisg | sbalneav++ :) (and good morning all) | 05:34 |
| sbalneav | Morning alkisg | 05:34 |
| stgraber | yeah, that's quite usual for schools to have that kind of files | 05:34 |
| sbalneav | I suspect we can hash it out a little more at the next meeting. | 05:34 |
| === hibana_ is now known as hibana | ||
| sbalneav | Morning all | 14:47 |
| bencrisford | stgraber: Ping | 16:58 |
| LaserJock | morning everybody | 17:22 |
| LaserJock | highvoltage, stgraber: ping | 17:26 |
| highvoltage | LaserJock: pong | 17:37 |
| highvoltage | LaserJock: good ping timing, I'm at my computer now for the first time today | 17:37 |
| LaserJock | are we going to have an EC meeting to get nubae approved? | 17:38 |
| highvoltage | well, reviewed at least (we can't assume approval). what time/date? | 17:39 |
| LaserJock | whenever I guess | 17:42 |
| highvoltage | would tomorrow be too short notice? | 17:43 |
| stgraber | LaserJock: pong | 17:44 |
| bencrisford | stgraber: Do I get a pong? :( :P | 17:44 |
| stgraber | bencrisford: pong too | 17:45 |
| bencrisford | :) | 17:45 |
| LaserJock | highvoltage: thursday or friday would be better for me | 17:45 |
| bencrisford | stgraber: Its meant to be my membership meeting today, but im sixth and I can only stay an hour. Am I likely to be fitted in, or should I apply for a different board? | 17:45 |
| highvoltage | LaserJock: ok I think friday is good then | 17:46 |
| stgraber | bencrisford: I won't stay for much more than an hour either. Depends how many won't be at the meeting | 17:46 |
| bencrisford1 | ok :/ | 17:48 |
| highvoltage | LaserJock: what time? 16:00 UTC? (or was it 18:00 last time?) | 17:57 |
| LaserJock | whatever works for you guys | 17:57 |
| LaserJock | 16:00-18:00 URC are good times | 17:58 |
| LaserJock | *UTC | 17:58 |
| highvoltage | ok 18:00 then | 17:58 |
| stgraber | friday 18:00 UTC, noted | 18:00 |
| LaserJock | somebody want to send an email? | 18:00 |
| LaserJock | you know, it's really sad IMO that Linux nerds can spend hours and hours flaming each other on whether to use base 2 or base 10 math but couldn't care less about getting Linux into schools | 18:02 |
| highvoltage | LaserJock: it's not just Linux nerds per se, people generally just suck. | 18:04 |
| highvoltage | LaserJock: shall I send the announcement? | 18:04 |
| LaserJock | highvoltage: sure awesome | 18:05 |
| highvoltage | LaserJock: but yes, sad nontheless | 18:06 |
| highvoltage | LaserJock, stgraber, (others): https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/Community/MeetingAgenda | 18:32 |
| highvoltage | anything else we should add? | 18:32 |
| highvoltage | I'll post it to the list once we have a bit more in there | 18:32 |
| stgraber | highvoltage: looks good | 18:34 |
| LaserJock | yeah | 18:34 |
| LaserJock | I think those will actually take up the time | 18:35 |
| Svenstaro | I still didn't spot any UDS updates on the mailing list. | 18:38 |
| highvoltage | ok I wanted to add karmic discussion too, but I agree that's probably enough and that we can target the karmic stuff more thoroughly in another meeting | 18:39 |
| highvoltage | LaserJock: stgraber talked to cjwatson about enabling universe for edubuntu builds, and he said that it would be trivial to implement | 18:40 |
| highvoltage | implement/enable | 18:40 |
| LaserJock | yeah, I actually found the code for it a couple days ago | 18:40 |
| LaserJock | the problem will be Canonical supportability | 18:40 |
| highvoltage | LaserJock: ! | 18:41 |
| highvoltage | (for lack of any words) | 18:41 |
| LaserJock | we can build with Universe but I wonder how that effects the ability of users to buy support | 18:41 |
| highvoltage | I guess we can care about Canonical supportability again when they acknowledge that edubuntu exists in the first place | 18:41 |
| highvoltage | LaserJock: perhaps this is something that we need to discuss, afaik we were all cool with enabling universe | 18:42 |
| LaserJock | well, I think we would just want to talk with Canonical | 18:43 |
| LaserJock | let them know or whatever | 18:43 |
| highvoltage | ok, 100% | 18:43 |
| LaserJock | regardless of my feelings about Canonical's position, it's a big shift for our users if they can no longer buy support from Canonical | 18:43 |
| LaserJock | even if we do add Universe, what's going to happen? | 18:45 |
| highvoltage | LaserJock: stgraber made a good point, we don't want to go through all the hoops of getting something like sugar into main, but it would be nice on the add-on disc | 18:45 |
| LaserJock | do we drop all of Edubuntu to Universe? | 18:45 |
| LaserJock | do we just add on stuff that's not in Main right now? | 18:45 |
| highvoltage | LaserJock: well if something is in main and it can stay there I see no point in demoting it | 18:46 |
| LaserJock | how much and to what kind of .iso? | 18:46 |
| highvoltage | LaserJock: and if it's officially supported it should stay so if possible | 18:46 |
| LaserJock | I actually can see some point | 18:46 |
| LaserJock | right now I'm the only Core Dev | 18:46 |
| LaserJock | if we drop to Universe then you have the whole MOTU team as potential sponsors | 18:46 |
| highvoltage | LaserJock: yep and stgraber can upload some stuff into main | 18:46 |
| highvoltage | LaserJock: *nod* exactly | 18:46 |
| LaserJock | I think using Universe will be a major benefit | 18:47 |
| LaserJock | especially since we'll have the archive reorganization at some point and the difference will all go away | 18:47 |
| LaserJock | *but* we do need to think about the ramifications and how to best go about it | 18:47 |
| LaserJock | so that'd be a good topic for the meeting | 18:48 |
| highvoltage | indeed. we seem to get a good response from the community council when we ask them about things | 18:48 |
| highvoltage | hmm, perhaps we should ask the technical board about this specific issue? | 18:48 |
| LaserJock | what would they decide? | 18:49 |
| LaserJock | hmm, not that you mention it | 18:49 |
| highvoltage | maybe not so much decide as just give official blessing. although I guess tb != canonical | 18:49 |
| LaserJock | 1) we should ask Canonical what would happen if we drop to Universe | 18:49 |
| LaserJock | 2) we should ask the TB what to do about the .iso issue (addon or full distro, where is it hosted) | 18:50 |
| highvoltage | well "drop to universe" sounds harsh. perhaps rather say include packages from universe, since we won't drop main | 18:50 |
| highvoltage | LaserJock: yep. just keep in mind that we said we're planning full iso for karmic | 18:50 |
| LaserJock | well, there are some apps I would drop to Universe if we did | 18:50 |
| highvoltage | LaserJock: but of course it won't hurt getting all the groundwork done ASAP | 18:50 |
| LaserJock | what did we say? | 18:50 |
| highvoltage | ehm... full iso for karmic? | 18:51 |
| highvoltage | (or at least not earlier...) | 18:51 |
| LaserJock | really? | 18:52 |
| LaserJock | I thought we were talking about karmic+1 maybe since it's LTS | 18:52 |
| nubae | I'm here now | 18:52 |
| highvoltage | LaserJock: ugh, I suck | 18:52 |
| nubae | I scrolled up and saw my name mentioned | 18:52 |
| highvoltage | LaserJock: I meant karmic+1 | 18:52 |
| LaserJock | I still think we need to discuss the release strategy here | 18:52 |
| LaserJock | the consensus seems to be that we focus on LTS releases | 18:52 |
| LaserJock | which sounds good | 18:52 |
| LaserJock | but I'm not sure how that's going to work out in practice | 18:53 |
| highvoltage | LaserJock: yes, sorry I meant loopy not karmic | 18:53 |
| nubae | I thought I'd mention that its likely I start working for the Junta de Andalucia next month (Guadalinex) which is based on edubuntu and ubuntu and they want much closer ties to the edubuntu project | 18:53 |
| nubae | u guys have spoken to asanchez I take it | 18:53 |
| LaserJock | nubae: awesome news! | 18:53 |
| highvoltage | nubae: congrats! | 18:53 |
| nubae | yeah indeed, dream job... stupid pay, but dream job | 18:53 |
| nubae | so they say its the biggest edu linux deployment world wide | 18:54 |
| nubae | dont know how they are basing that, but sounds like one hell of a test pilot | 18:54 |
| highvoltage | LaserJock: so karmic = add-on disc, karmic+1 = full distro + addon disc (or some variation of this based on future discussion) | 18:54 |
| LaserJock | I'm not sure you can do both | 18:54 |
| highvoltage | nubae: test pilot? | 18:54 |
| LaserJock | nubae: Guadalinex has been a long time, but distant friend | 18:55 |
| highvoltage | LaserJock: I think add-on is important for people who want to support some apps from the edubuntu collection on something other than gnome | 18:55 |
| LaserJock | highvoltage: right, but I don't think we can get the hosting for both | 18:55 |
| nubae | well, right now, they are simply installing guadalinex directly on the machines | 18:55 |
| LaserJock | I think Edubuntu will get 1 image/.iso | 18:55 |
| highvoltage | LaserJock: asanches is actually hanging out here and wants to be a full edubuntu developer! | 18:55 |
| nubae | no distribution method, no ltsp | 18:55 |
| highvoltage | LaserJock: ok | 18:55 |
| highvoltage | LaserJock: well, it's possible to have a live CD repositories on it, the ubuntu live cd is like that currently | 18:56 |
| highvoltage | LaserJock: so perhaps it should just be a combined disc if possible? | 18:56 |
| LaserJock | highvoltage: I think we need to get some good AptOnCD instructions and have a good metapackage system for internet installs | 18:56 |
| LaserJock | well, we might be able to do some | 18:57 |
| LaserJock | but again, the problem is space | 18:57 |
| nubae | anyway I think I'll recommend to ditch guadalinex and localise edubuntu | 18:57 |
| highvoltage | LaserJock: hosting space? | 18:57 |
| nubae | so that work isnt done 10 times | 18:57 |
| LaserJock | highvoltage: we got bumped off of releases.ubuntu.com due to space | 18:57 |
| highvoltage | nubae: asanchez said that they'll use Edubuntu if we sort out the menu problems | 18:57 |
| LaserJock | highvoltage: we're gonna have to fight to get back on as it is, adding another GB or so will be very difficult | 18:58 |
| highvoltage | LaserJock: I feel strongly that it's totally, totally wrong for us to cripple ourselves in terms of features and what our users want because there's not space on a server | 18:58 |
| LaserJock | highvoltage: well, I know, but it *is* a limitation, it always has been in Ubuntu | 18:58 |
| nubae | highvoltage: +10 | 18:58 |
| LaserJock | we can talk with Mark and slangasek to see what can be done | 18:59 |
| LaserJock | my impression was that Edubuntu was dropped because it wasn't being used much | 18:59 |
| highvoltage | LaserJock: don't we have the option of hosting it elsewhere or buying some disks for them? | 18:59 |
| nubae | LaserJock: that kind of thinking will take us back to the stone age... take a look at how opensuse-edu is succeding because of their multiple image systems | 18:59 |
| nubae | they have images for usb/dvd/cd/virtual machine appliances | 18:59 |
| nubae | and it just really helps | 18:59 |
| highvoltage | nubae: heh, don't get LaserJock started | 18:59 |
| LaserJock | nubae: I totally realize that | 19:00 |
| LaserJock | I'm just being practical and realistic here | 19:00 |
| LaserJock | Ubuntu's mirror system is *very* nice to have | 19:00 |
| LaserJock | if we have to make a few compromises I think it could be worth it | 19:01 |
| highvoltage | LaserJock: you're right | 19:01 |
| Svenstaro | Ubuntu's mirroring system isn't the end-of-all. There are many people who can and would provide free mirrors for us in case we host elsewhere. | 19:01 |
| highvoltage | LaserJock: I mean, canonical obviously has some restraints and it's not necessarilly their fault, and we need to work with them where we can to make things easier for everybody | 19:01 |
| LaserJock | well, it's not the end-of-all | 19:01 |
| nubae | Svenstaro: right, thats whats happened with sugar | 19:01 |
| nubae | grass roots mirrors | 19:01 |
| LaserJock | but Ubuntu does have mirrors in just about *every* country | 19:01 |
| nubae | works like a charm | 19:01 |
| Svenstaro | we don't *need* mirrors in just about every country | 19:02 |
| nubae | look, what I see is that canonical should put SOME commitment to support edubuntu | 19:02 |
| LaserJock | they do | 19:02 |
| nubae | not enough | 19:02 |
| LaserJock | we just need to see how much we can get out of the pie | 19:02 |
| nubae | all the other distros have MUCH more support from their sponsors | 19:03 |
| LaserJock | when I mentioned to Mark that we got dropped he was pretty upset | 19:03 |
| highvoltage | in my strong opinion, edubuntu needs to be a DVD in order to be successful | 19:03 |
| Svenstaro | highvoltage, I fully agree. | 19:03 |
| LaserJock | I think we could talk with him and see if we can get something going | 19:03 |
| nubae | well, there was all this talk about how important education was and we all know what happened | 19:03 |
| LaserJock | *but* somebody needs to do it | 19:03 |
| highvoltage | I can't think of any other way how we'll be able to meet the needs of our users by sticking to a CD | 19:03 |
| LaserJock | let's not just ditch everything without trying | 19:03 |
| nubae | I don't wanna beat a dead horse, but... | 19:03 |
| highvoltage | nubae: please, please don't say opensuse | 19:03 |
| LaserJock | well, here's my point | 19:04 |
| nubae | hehe, I wasnt going to, but now that u mention it... | 19:04 |
| nubae | :-) :p | 19:04 |
| LaserJock | with the exception of highvoltage talking with colin | 19:04 |
| LaserJock | I've yet to see anybody here talk to Ubuntu/Canonical about it | 19:04 |
| highvoltage | it was stgraber who talked to cjwatson | 19:04 |
| LaserJock | so we have *no* idea what's possible | 19:04 |
| highvoltage | LaserJock: ok, so we need to open some communication channels | 19:04 |
| LaserJock | so please exhaust the existing resources before heading outside Ubuntu | 19:04 |
| Svenstaro | LaserJock, can't we just go ahead and assume that we ARE being hosted by Canonical and that they will continue? | 19:05 |
| LaserJock | because it really is preferable to use Ubuntu resources where possible | 19:05 |
| highvoltage | LaserJock: I feel confident that if we explain to them what we need and why that we'll get a good response | 19:05 |
| nubae | of course it is | 19:05 |
| LaserJock | Svenstaro: well, the only thing is that we're currently being hosted at ~ 300MB | 19:05 |
| nubae | right, it would be ludicrous for them to not take edubuntu seriously... but... they need to know that we still care | 19:05 |
| LaserJock | right | 19:05 |
| nubae | from the emails I've seen from other teams, it seems many think edubuntu is dead | 19:06 |
| nubae | and should be buried | 19:06 |
| nubae | that notion needs to dissapear | 19:06 |
| highvoltage | nubae: links please | 19:06 |
| LaserJock | I am confident that if Edubuntu turns around and we build a user base Canonical will be more than happy to host the .isos | 19:06 |
| Svenstaro | LaserJock, I can take over the hosting, it's a non-issue. I'm not a good mirror at just 1TB of traffic but others will do that. Also we have bittorrent. | 19:06 |
| LaserJock | they're frankly just not going to spend resources on a failed project | 19:06 |
| highvoltage | *nod* | 19:06 |
| highvoltage | and recently edubuntu *has* been a failed project | 19:07 |
| LaserJock | *but* somebody does need to ask the release team if it'd be OK for us to work towards getting a DVD | 19:07 |
| LaserJock | last time I talked with slangasek he said no | 19:07 |
| LaserJock | but I think with a good plan of what we're doing with it | 19:07 |
| LaserJock | that there might be more motivation | 19:07 |
| highvoltage | yes, let's just do it through official channels and as formally as possible this time, along with a proposal of what we want on the dvd and how much space it will consume (more or less, of course) | 19:08 |
| nubae | I see no point in making anything BUT a cd/usb image | 19:08 |
| nubae | the education packages require that | 19:08 |
| nubae | sorry... DVD, not cd | 19:08 |
| LaserJock | I totally agree | 19:08 |
| LaserJock | there's no doubt that we need to move towards DVD/usb images | 19:08 |
| highvoltage | if the response is that it absolutely can't happen, and we can't change their mind, then we can create a wiki page explaining why we can't do certain things along with that response | 19:09 |
| LaserJock | *or* just do internet-only | 19:09 |
| Svenstaro | highvoltage, why not just go ahead doing what we want on our own, if that happens? | 19:09 |
| highvoltage | LaserJock: I was surprised at UDS to discover that .za isn't the only country with heavy bandwidth issues, there were other people who also said that a dvd/usb disk would be beneficial because they have no bandwidth at the schools | 19:09 |
| LaserJock | yeah | 19:10 |
| sbalneav | Wondered why things were quiet | 19:10 |
| sbalneav | apparently I disconnected. | 19:10 |
| LaserJock | even in the US a DVD is nice to have | 19:10 |
| sbalneav | Afternoon all | 19:10 |
| highvoltage | Svenstaro: that's kind of what we're doing, but we want to do it properly, and we want to do it the ubuntu way and work with canonical to produce something supportable | 19:10 |
| highvoltage | Svenstaro: we're not currently limited to do much, really | 19:10 |
| LaserJock | ZaReason said that a DVD would be most helpful in them selling machines with pre-installed Edubuntu | 19:10 |
| highvoltage | afternoon sbalneav, welcome back | 19:11 |
| LaserJock | well, let's be clear here | 19:11 |
| nubae | have to go eat, biab | 19:11 |
| LaserJock | Canonical is *not* doing a lot of things | 19:11 |
| LaserJock | but Canonical still does a lot of stuff for Ubuntu as a whole | 19:11 |
| sbalneav | So, I had a look last night at ldapscripts | 19:12 |
| highvoltage | totally, Canonical does great work on and for Ubuntu, I don't have a slightest doubt about that | 19:12 |
| sbalneav | which does probably 85% of what we want. | 19:12 |
| highvoltage | sbalneav: have you been in touch with the ubuntu server team or followed the authentication server discussions that took place at UDS? | 19:13 |
| LaserJock | I don't know why Guadalinex isn't using edubuntu-menus | 19:13 |
| coz_ | hey all | 19:13 |
| LaserJock | it's been around since like Edgy | 19:13 |
| highvoltage | sbalneav: there are plans for automating a lot of the ldappy stuff in karmic, but perhaps they can benefit from some of the stuff you work on? | 19:14 |
| coz_ | have any issues popped up with edubuntu and compiz? | 19:14 |
| highvoltage | LaserJock: can the edubuntu-menus sort the applications by grade like they have it? | 19:14 |
| sbalneav | highvoltage: haven't seen a spec yet | 19:14 |
| LaserJock | highvoltage: it can do whatever you want | 19:14 |
| sbalneav | is there one? | 19:14 |
| highvoltage | coz_: edubuntu+compiz is exactly the same as ubuntu+compiz | 19:14 |
| LaserJock | coz_: specifically what? | 19:14 |
| highvoltage | sbalneav: I'm searching for it... | 19:14 |
| coz_ | nothing in particular guys just wondering | 19:15 |
| LaserJock | I don't know of any particular issues | 19:15 |
| LaserJock | some apps work better than others with compositing | 19:15 |
| highvoltage | coz_: LTSP is doing work on getting compiz in LTSP working nicely, but that's about it in terms of compiz and edubuntu | 19:16 |
| coz_ | highvoltage, ok cool | 19:16 |
| coz_ | no one has come into #compiz with edubuntu so I was just wondering if you guys had anyone withissues no biggie :) | 19:17 |
| highvoltage | sbalneav: here's one, I'm sure there's more on it... looking... https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NetworkDirectoryUserLogin | 19:17 |
| highvoltage | sbalneav: ah here's the other one: https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/server-karmic-directory-enabled-services | 19:18 |
| highvoltage | LaserJock: can I find documentation on edubuntu-menus anywhere? | 19:23 |
| LaserJock | no | 19:23 |
| LaserJock | the package itself is fairly simple and self-explanatory | 19:24 |
| highvoltage | ok | 19:24 |
| LaserJock | if we really want to make a push for it we'll want documentation of course | 19:24 |
| LaserJock | but right now it's basically proof-of-concept | 19:24 |
| LaserJock | however | 19:24 |
| highvoltage | ok, I just want to investigate whether it would be useful for guadalinex | 19:24 |
| LaserJock | Ubuntu Studio did use it for the basis of their menus | 19:25 |
| LaserJock | of course it would be :-) | 19:25 |
| highvoltage | currently they modify 43 packages to change the .desktop files to get to what they want | 19:25 |
| LaserJock | the guadalinex case is the *exact* reason I built it | 19:25 |
| LaserJock | yeah, that's really nuts | 19:25 |
| highvoltage | ok cool | 19:25 |
| LaserJock | I have no idea why they did that | 19:25 |
| LaserJock | :-) | 19:25 |
| highvoltage | well I'll try to figure out how it works and will ping you if I get stuck, I'll put together a guide that they can test out | 19:25 |
| LaserJock | basically they're modifying the menu at the .desktop file level, at the menu items themselves | 19:25 |
| highvoltage | LaserJock: they said that they'd use plain edubuntu if we can get that right | 19:26 |
| LaserJock | what i did was to modify the way in which the menu gets built in the first place | 19:26 |
| highvoltage | LaserJock: that's a *big* win imho | 19:26 |
| LaserJock | huge! | 19:26 |
| highvoltage | LaserJock: if canonical still wants to shun us after that they can go... erm (pm) | 19:26 |
| sbalneav | highvoltage: I've subscribed to both of them, but I have a sinking feeling that, like a lot of previous attempts to "get the ldap situation in ubuntu fixed", they're too ambitious, and won't be met. | 19:27 |
| LaserJock | I don't think Canonical shuns us | 19:27 |
| LaserJock | they're just not putting resources into projects that aren't working | 19:28 |
| LaserJock | they've made some mistakes in the past, no doubt | 19:28 |
| LaserJock | but I believe Mark wants Edubuntu to succeed very much | 19:28 |
| highvoltage | sbalneav: indeed. I do find it encouraging though that there is renewed energy on the issue, and if you have breakthroughs then it would be cool if you shared it on the spec/wiki, imho | 19:29 |
| sbalneav | Sure. | 19:29 |
| sbalneav | One of the big things that would help, is fixing up ldap scripts | 19:30 |
| sbalneav | sorry, ldapscripts | 19:30 |
| sbalneav | it needs 3 things to be useful to us, and should be easy to patch. | 19:30 |
| sbalneav | 1) adherance to the "users primary group is same as userid" standard method of doing groups in Linux | 19:31 |
| sbalneav | 2) default addition of support for shadow password support (i.e. expiry, passwd aging, disabling, etc.) | 19:32 |
| highvoltage | LaserJock: at the risk of sounding like a broken record, they really should make a plan for server space for us if there's a problem there currently. it's not like disk space is expensive, it's not like we're asking to host some weird bebibuntu derivative or something | 19:32 |
| LaserJock | highvoltage: right, but we need to request it | 19:32 |
| Svenstaro | LaserJock, I had a peek at all the info you gave me, and it seems the only thing I would have to do is write a 'seed', a package selection and pass it onto the ubuntu release folks? | 19:32 |
| sbalneav | 3) a tie in to the systems-tools-backends package. | 19:32 |
| highvoltage | sbalneav: how about adding that to the wiki page/spec? | 19:32 |
| LaserJock | highvoltage: we got dropped I believe at the last minute because of UNR | 19:32 |
| LaserJock | highvoltage: but Mark told me that he was surprised about it and that we should get our space back | 19:33 |
| LaserJock | highvoltage: we just need to make our case and *communicate* with them | 19:33 |
| highvoltage | LaserJock: ok, we're going over things we've been through before, let's move on | 19:33 |
| LaserJock | Svenstaro: we already have seeds | 19:33 |
| highvoltage | LaserJock: what channel should we follow? should we take this up with the TB? | 19:33 |
| LaserJock | Svenstaro: so it would basically just be a matter of modifying or adding a new seed | 19:34 |
| pygi | highvoltage: bleh | 19:34 |
| pygi | why is the meeting at that time :( | 19:34 |
| LaserJock | but there are some bits that do need to be changed so that the current addon disk can be made into a DVD | 19:34 |
| LaserJock | highvoltage: I would maybe start with cjwatson/slangasek and see | 19:34 |
| Svenstaro | LaserJock, I wasn't able to find the existing seeds. Where would they be? | 19:34 |
| highvoltage | LaserJock: ok | 19:35 |
| highvoltage | pygi: we asked in the channel and that suited people in the euro and american timezones well | 19:36 |
| pygi | highvoltage: :( | 19:36 |
| pygi | I am traveling to my hometown | 19:36 |
| LaserJock | Svenstaro: the seeds for karmic are at https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/edubuntu.karmic | 19:36 |
| highvoltage | LaserJock: how do you want to approach it, should we start a conversation with them on IRC? or e-mail for records? | 19:36 |
| LaserJock | IRC would be fine for initial conversations | 19:37 |
| LaserJock | to see what needs to be done | 19:37 |
| highvoltage | pygi: we wanted to give enough notice since it will be an EC meeting, but we can schedule an EC meeting again for later this month | 19:37 |
| LaserJock | we just don't know | 19:37 |
| LaserJock | it could be trivial | 19:37 |
| highvoltage | pygi: we'll have other edubuntu meetings at least weekly | 19:38 |
| pygi | highvoltage: translate EC? | 19:38 |
| pygi | council? | 19:38 |
| highvoltage | pygi: si | 19:38 |
| pygi | oh well, you have fun then, I have nothing to do here :p | 19:38 |
| alkisg | sbalneav: woah! http://system-tools-backends.freedesktop.org/dbus-spec.html => are these specs actually implemented? | 19:38 |
| highvoltage | sbalneav: btw, it's not that I'm not interested, I just think your input would be really useful to the server team who wants to implement these things | 19:40 |
| sbalneav | alkisg: argh | 19:46 |
| sbalneav | yeah, and THEY don't have anything in there for shadow support either. | 19:47 |
| sbalneav | criminy | 19:47 |
| sbalneav | I had to add shadow support to pam-ldap, I've had to add it to ltsp :) | 19:47 |
| sbalneav | Seems like my whole life is spent getting people to support a standard that's been around for yonks and yonks. | 19:47 |
| alkisg | They do have a field named "User Encrypted Password" | 19:48 |
| sbalneav | password last changed | 19:48 |
| alkisg | And I like the network interfaces dbus interface | 19:48 |
| sbalneav | min password age | 19:48 |
| sbalneav | max password age | 19:48 |
| sbalneav | etc. | 19:48 |
| sbalneav | If you can't expire passwords, you will never, EVER be considered even remotely applicable for most corporate, school, or government institutions. | 19:49 |
| sbalneav | Most government/corporate places want password aging every 90 days | 19:49 |
| sbalneav | schools want accounts to auto-expire at the end of the term | 19:50 |
| sbalneav | etc. | 19:50 |
| alkisg | Yes, what you're saying is reasonable... I wonder why they didn't put support for that in the spec. | 19:50 |
| sbalneav | Because everyone forgets it. | 19:52 |
| LaserJock | highvoltage: well, that's about what I figured | 19:52 |
| LaserJock | it sucks losing the Ubuntu mirrors | 19:54 |
| highvoltage | LaserJock: I'm ok with the answer we have from him, just having it on cdimage is better than nothing, we'll just manually have to arrange some mirrors, if we can get 2 per continent that would already be ok, but let's not get ahead of ourselves | 19:54 |
| LaserJock | yeah | 19:54 |
| LaserJock | we could put out a call | 19:54 |
| LaserJock | and lean on bittorrent a lot | 19:54 |
| highvoltage | LaserJock: I think the old edubuntu versions and gobuntu can really be removed, but I won't go into that with slangasek now | 19:54 |
| sbalneav | Ah, looks as if upstream for systems-tools-backend has support for it. | 19:55 |
| LaserJock | highvoltage: can you take care of the TB agenda item? | 19:56 |
| highvoltage | LaserJock: just added it | 19:56 |
| highvoltage | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda | 19:56 |
| LaserJock | ok awesome | 19:56 |
| LaserJock | that's progress! | 19:56 |
| highvoltage | well, my connection is slow so it might still be posting :) | 19:56 |
| highvoltage | LaserJock: egh, we missed a TB meeting today | 19:57 |
| LaserJock | yeah | 19:57 |
| highvoltage | we'll just have to catch the next one | 19:57 |
| LaserJock | we're not in a huge rush | 19:58 |
| highvoltage | I'm anxious for us to make progress though | 20:00 |
| highvoltage | people are keeping an eye on the project wondering whether it will flourish of flounder | 20:00 |
| highvoltage | I'd like to show real, steady and constant progress | 20:01 |
| highvoltage | but I agree, we don't have to rush it | 20:01 |
| bencrisford | stgraber: I have 50 minutes until the meeting right? | 20:11 |
| pygi | highvoltage: patience my friend, patience is the virtue | 20:13 |
| highvoltage | pygi: that's the best thing I ever heard you say | 20:14 |
| pygi | highvoltage: I am not sure if I should feel insulted or honored :p | 20:14 |
| highvoltage | pygi: hehe | 20:16 |
| pygi | highvoltage: I'll post the video of you singing now! | 20:16 |
| highvoltage | pygi: you're bluffing! | 20:17 |
| pygi | wanna bet? :D | 20:17 |
| highvoltage | no, I'll just stay quiet then. | 20:17 |
| * highvoltage looks through the CoC to see if there's anything about blackmail | 20:17 | |
| pygi | highvoltage: ha! :) | 20:19 |
| pygi | I think I revoked my CoC signature, not sure xD | 20:19 |
| * bencrisford looks through the CoC to see if there is anything about bribing people for membership testimonials | 20:20 | |
| pygi | bencrisford: there is | 20:20 |
| * bencrisford grins :D | 20:20 | |
| bencrisford | oh :( | 20:20 |
| pygi | can I give you one advice? | 20:20 |
| * bencrisford revokes signiture, bribes, then signs again :D | 20:20 | |
| bencrisford | pygi: Can you give me one advice? Sorry, I don't understand..? | 20:21 |
| pygi | I think I decided after two years of contribution to go for membership | 20:21 |
| bencrisford | oh ? | 20:21 |
| pygi | the reason is that I had all the doors open without even being a member | 20:21 |
| pygi | in that time I also got some of the packages uploaded in main | 20:21 |
| bencrisford | well technically i have | 20:21 |
| bencrisford | as documentation is in main] | 20:21 |
| bencrisford | :), but i guess that dont count | 20:22 |
| pygi | people will listen if you have something to say, even if you're member | 20:22 |
| pygi | not* | 20:22 |
| highvoltage | pygi +1 | 20:22 |
| pygi | guadelinux folks are great example, I think highvoltage and stgraber will agree that we've learned a lot from them | 20:22 |
| highvoltage | they are good people | 20:23 |
| pygi | highvoltage: ^_^ | 20:23 |
| pygi | better then you for sure :p | 20:23 |
| * pygi hides from highvoltage's rage | 20:23 | |
| * bencrisford disagrees! | 20:25 | |
| * bencrisford is a proud subsriber of highvoltage's blog | 20:25 | |
| * bencrisford warns pygi not to cross him | 20:25 | |
| bencrisford | or there will be consequences... | 20:25 |
| pygi | bencrisford: nah, he's great actually, I just love to joke him around :p | 20:25 |
| bencrisford | :P hehe | 20:25 |
| bencrisford | if you guys were on the membership board, would you say yes or no to me? :/ | 20:26 |
| pygi | bencrisford: highvoltage is on the membership board(edubuntu one) but I'd say no | 20:29 |
| pygi | I want you to become a member as well as you, but I don't want you to become a member just for the sake of being a member | 20:29 |
| bencrisford | this is ubuntu membership pygi, not edubuntu | 20:29 |
| pygi | oh :P still, the same answer :) | 20:30 |
| bencrisford | and i resent that im being a member for the sake of it, thats far from the truth :P | 20:30 |
| LaserJock | bencrisford: how many testimonials do you have? | 20:30 |
| * bencrisford mutters... "two.." | 20:30 | |
| bencrisford | but i haven't told many people i work with on ubuntu about my membership application | 20:31 |
| bencrisford | maybe i shoulda done, but i didnt wanna make people feel they had to give me testimonials because im so beautifal and lovely :) :P | 20:32 |
| LaserJock | I don't know, I think it'd be close for me | 20:33 |
| bencrisford | :S | 20:33 |
| LaserJock | but I have no idea how the member boards have been doing things for the last year or so | 20:33 |
| LaserJock | bencrisford: you'll certainly get there, it's just a matter of when the time is right | 20:33 |
| bencrisford | but in ubuntu, you kind of need it in order to start development according to the wiki... | 20:34 |
| bencrisford | people just dont get taken seriously without the status | 20:34 |
| bencrisford | the system sucks IMO | 20:34 |
| bencrisford | i would be happier if it werent there at all | 20:34 |
| Svenstaro | huh, you need recommendations to be a edubuntu member? | 20:35 |
| * Svenstaro overhears something after reconnecting | 20:35 | |
| pygi | Svenstaro: yes :p | 20:35 |
| Svenstaro | Now that's very open and welcoming for people who want to help out. | 20:35 |
| pygi | heh | 20:36 |
| pygi | I already told you | 20:36 |
| pygi | you don't have to be a member to contribute | 20:36 |
| bencrisford | im not becoming an edubuntu member Svenstaro, lol id have no chance of getting that :P | 20:36 |
| bencrisford | im up for ubuntu membership | 20:36 |
| Svenstaro | Like there was no shortage of contributors or anything :D | 20:36 |
| highvoltage | bencrisford: how long have you been contributing to ubuntu? | 20:37 |
| Svenstaro | pygi, that's like, yeah sure we'll take your stuff. What, you want privileges in return? Screw you! Worthless contributor! | 20:37 |
| pygi | Svenstaro: its not like that | 20:37 |
| bencrisford | dunno, a while :P, but I spend most of my time nowadays on ubuntu stuff highvoltage, looking at the criteria - i, personally think I deserve it. but it doesnt matter what i think :P | 20:37 |
| highvoltage | bencrisford: 6 months? more than a year? | 20:38 |
| LaserJock | bencrisford: there is *absolutely* no requirement for you to be a Member to contribute to development | 20:38 |
| LaserJock | Ubuntu Membership is a recognition of effort, not a status symbol | 20:38 |
| pygi | Svenstaro: being a member is just a recognition of your contribution | 20:39 |
| pygi | yes | 20:39 |
| pygi | LaserJock: ++ | 20:39 |
| bencrisford | LaserJock: Not to contribute, but to start joining teams, and incrementing your development roles... universe-contributors allows people with ubuntu membership or ready for it, its a requirement | 20:39 |
| highvoltage | members also get IRC cloaks, @ubuntu.com e-mail addresses, get to post onto the ubuntu planet, in short, they become reprasentatives of ubuntu and you can't hand that out like sweeties | 20:40 |
| LaserJock | bencrisford: I don't think it is a requirement | 20:40 |
| highvoltage | you need to know that someone can be trusted and that they are in it for the long hauls | 20:40 |
| bencrisford | you need to be ready for it at least LaserJock | 20:40 |
| LaserJock | bencrisford: Ubuntu Membership is require for MOTU | 20:40 |
| bencrisford | and contributors | 20:40 |
| LaserJock | no | 20:40 |
| bencrisford | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopers#ContribDev | 20:40 |
| LaserJock | Contributors is how you can get Membership | 20:40 |
| LaserJock | like what we do with Edubuntu | 20:40 |
| bencrisford | the universe contributors is an official team | 20:41 |
| LaserJock | yes | 20:41 |
| bencrisford | its half way from prospective to motu | 20:41 |
| bencrisford | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopers#ContribDev | 20:41 |
| LaserJock | I helped create it, I'm aware of what it is | 20:41 |
| bencrisford | oh, well even if you didnt, i know you'd know more than me :), but it does say there | 20:41 |
| LaserJock | when you become a Contributing Developer you *get* Membership | 20:42 |
| bencrisford | i know | 20:42 |
| LaserJock | but it's not a pre-condition | 20:42 |
| bencrisford | well you need to be ready for it | 20:42 |
| LaserJock | and in fact Contributing Developer is not required for anything | 20:42 |
| LaserJock | the point is, with the exception of some advanced teams, Ubuntu Membership is not required to join teams | 20:43 |
| bencrisford | well, i guess, but my point is that ubuntu membership is like a qualification for the ubuntu community | 20:43 |
| LaserJock | and it is flat out not required to contribute | 20:43 |
| pygi | ... | 20:43 |
| highvoltage | bencrisford: I just looked at your wiki page, it's very nice all the things you've been getting involved with | 20:44 |
| LaserJock | like take dchen | 20:44 |
| pygi | bencrisford: haven't I told you that I didn't *WANT* to become a member for two years? | 20:44 |
| bencrisford | pygi: I don't care if i don't get membership | 20:44 |
| highvoltage | bencrisford: but it seems that it's all very recent things, you might have trouble proving the sustainability part yet | 20:44 |
| bencrisford | it would just be a nice recognition | 20:44 |
| pygi | highvoltage: it used to be two months sustained contribution | 20:44 |
| bencrisford | highvoltage: I'm definately here to stay, and ive had more than two months... | 20:45 |
| highvoltage | pygi: yeah there was a loco session at the UDS where they discussed that there was a perception that membership was given too easily and that it should be fixed | 20:45 |
| LaserJock | agreed | 20:46 |
| highvoltage | bencrisford: I'm not putting you down, just giving some advice. I'm definitely not going to stop you from going for membership | 20:46 |
| LaserJock | for sure | 20:46 |
| bencrisford | im not gonna be all that bothered if i don't get membership, you're saying i want it too bad, i dont want it that much at all, it would just be a nice recognition of the nights ive been up in the early hours of the morning triaging bugs :P:P:P | 20:46 |
| pygi | highvoltage: I agree | 20:46 |
| highvoltage | bencrisford: I'm convinced that if you don't get it the first time round, you'll certainly get it in the future if you keep at it | 20:47 |
| pygi | bencrisford: I've been up not sleeping for three years now :) | 20:47 |
| pygi | (And joking everyone around me :p) | 20:47 |
| bencrisford | pygi: Haha :P :) | 20:47 |
| highvoltage | talking of which, I really need to get some sleep myself | 20:47 |
| highvoltage | g'night edub | 20:47 |
| bencrisford | night ;) | 20:47 |
| pygi | night highvoltage | 20:47 |
| highvoltage | *edubuntu (see the stuff I try to autocomplete when I'm sleepy) | 20:47 |
| pygi | highvoltage: cheers dude | 20:48 |
| sbalneav | Night highvoltage | 20:48 |
| sbalneav | All the server stuff depends on getting Kerberos set up. Not an insurmountable problem, but puts a LOT more work for the small-time sysadmin to try to learn krb5 concepts. | 20:59 |
| LaserJock | can that be overcome at all with education/documentation? | 21:01 |
| bencrisford | Well, wish me luck with the membership meeting ;). But i'm sixth, so you never know i might not even get fitted in today! | 21:01 |
| LaserJock | bencrisford: good luck! | 21:02 |
| bencrisford | ty :) | 21:02 |
| bencrisford | but i can only stay an hour | 21:02 |
| bencrisford | and im sixth :/ | 21:02 |
| bencrisford | In case anyone's interested. I went to the membership meeting, got straight +0s. So it coulda been worse :). Nevermind, :/. | 21:39 |
| bencrisford | haha! 45 minutes after my membership meeting, my phone reminder for it goes off | 21:45 |
| bencrisford | typical :P:P:P | 21:45 |
| sbalneav | straight +0's? | 21:46 |
| bencrisford | yep | 21:47 |
| bencrisford | they werent -1s | 21:47 |
| bencrisford | so its not that bad | 21:47 |
| bencrisford | sbalneav: they just needed more evidence of sustained contribution | 21:48 |
| bencrisford | and right now i have a wide spread of contributions all over the place, they would like a more sustained contribution in one or two areas | 21:48 |
| sbalneav | Takes a while. I've been contributing to Free Software for 15 years :) | 21:49 |
| bencrisford | yeah, and nice :) | 21:50 |
| pygi | sbalneav: and you still didnt implement burning over iscsi :P | 21:52 |
| sbalneav | pygi: not a priority for me :) | 21:53 |
| sbalneav | I scratch my own itches :) | 21:53 |
| pygi | how rude :p | 21:54 |
| sbalneav | No, just practial :) | 21:54 |
| sbalneav | Practical | 21:54 |
| sbalneav | maybe by retirement, I'll learn how to type | 21:54 |
| sbalneav | Well, I think I'll put in some more work on Sabayon tonight. | 22:11 |
| sbalneav | After a week, I've received no feedback on any of my packages. | 22:11 |
| bencrisford | Night everyone, pygi ;), sbalneav ;), stgraber ;) | 22:14 |
| sbalneav | Good night. | 22:17 |
| sbalneav | Off home for the day. On later tonight. | 22:30 |
| asanchez | Hi all | 22:30 |
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