[04:00] Evening all [04:01] evening sbalneav [04:05] stgraber: Patch looked ok to you? [04:10] sbalneav: yep [04:11] It seems to cure the problem for me. [04:28] sbalneav: can you merge it ? [04:34] Mind if I do it tomorrow? [04:34] I'm knee deep in ldap right now :) [04:34] good morning stgraber and sbalneav [04:34] hi highvoltage [04:34] sbalneav: np [04:35] couldn't wait ... just ordered a new laptop :) [04:37] Cool, what kind? [04:38] lenovo x200s [04:39] Nice [04:40] yep, quite expensive but the hardware seems awesome for a laptop of that size :) [04:41] (the CPU from my current laptop is actually faster but it's a lot bigger too and doesn't stay up long on battery) [04:43] I've gone small. I've got an Acer Aspire One, and I love it. [04:43] lenovo x200 = <3 [05:00] highvoltage: saw too many of them in Barcelona, couldn't resist buying one ;) [05:21] Hmmm, looks like ldapscripts does most of what we want, in terms of setting up the initial ou's. [05:22] The templating system's fine, but we'll need to get something in there for handling password expiry, and account disabling. [05:23] sbalneav: did you look at GoSA ? [05:23] there'll be some mods to the scripts needed, and some mode defaults added to the templates. [05:23] GoSA? [05:23] web interface on top of ldap for easy user management, ACLs and templating [05:24] requires an openldap and some custom ldap schema, other than that it works just fine (we're using it at Revolution Linux for some customers) [05:25] Doesn't ubuntu want something in general that will tie in with administration->users and groups? [05:27] well, users and groups would need quite a lot of work to work correctly with large ldap deployments then [05:27] Well, users-and-groups is ok, as a front end. The problem is the system-tools-backends package. [05:27] I don't know if you tried doing a "getent passwd" on a LDAP server with 40000 users but that can take a while ;) so you'd need a tool that's quite good at doing filtering [05:29] Well, I don't have 40000 users, no. But my understanding is (at least with openldap) that usually by default, there's very little indexing. [05:30] I'm certainly not AGAINST a web tool, however, it means that, for people who want local users and groups, they use one tool, and for people who want ldap, they *right away* have to learn another tool. [05:31] My preferred solution would be for small and medium, either local or ldap, if they can use adm-uag, and if they've got 40,000 users and GoSA does a better job of large deployments, then they can switch to that. [05:32] But I'm willing to suspect that our 90% use-case will be "under 500" users. [05:32] Another big thing that people seem to want is some kind of bulk import tool. [05:32] i.e. I have a spreadsheet of names, and I want to turn them all into users [05:34] sbalneav++ :) (and good morning all) [05:34] Morning alkisg [05:34] yeah, that's quite usual for schools to have that kind of files [05:34] I suspect we can hash it out a little more at the next meeting. === hibana_ is now known as hibana [14:47] Morning all [16:58] stgraber: Ping [17:22] morning everybody [17:26] highvoltage, stgraber: ping [17:37] LaserJock: pong [17:37] LaserJock: good ping timing, I'm at my computer now for the first time today [17:38] are we going to have an EC meeting to get nubae approved? [17:39] well, reviewed at least (we can't assume approval). what time/date? [17:42] whenever I guess [17:43] would tomorrow be too short notice? [17:44] LaserJock: pong [17:44] stgraber: Do I get a pong? :( :P [17:45] bencrisford: pong too [17:45] :) [17:45] highvoltage: thursday or friday would be better for me [17:45] stgraber: Its meant to be my membership meeting today, but im sixth and I can only stay an hour. Am I likely to be fitted in, or should I apply for a different board? [17:46] LaserJock: ok I think friday is good then [17:46] bencrisford: I won't stay for much more than an hour either. Depends how many won't be at the meeting [17:48] ok :/ [17:57] LaserJock: what time? 16:00 UTC? (or was it 18:00 last time?) [17:57] whatever works for you guys [17:58] 16:00-18:00 URC are good times [17:58] *UTC [17:58] ok 18:00 then [18:00] friday 18:00 UTC, noted [18:00] somebody want to send an email? [18:02] you know, it's really sad IMO that Linux nerds can spend hours and hours flaming each other on whether to use base 2 or base 10 math but couldn't care less about getting Linux into schools [18:04] LaserJock: it's not just Linux nerds per se, people generally just suck. [18:04] LaserJock: shall I send the announcement? [18:05] highvoltage: sure awesome [18:06] LaserJock: but yes, sad nontheless [18:32] LaserJock, stgraber, (others): https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/Community/MeetingAgenda [18:32] anything else we should add? [18:32] I'll post it to the list once we have a bit more in there [18:34] highvoltage: looks good [18:34] yeah [18:35] I think those will actually take up the time [18:38] I still didn't spot any UDS updates on the mailing list. [18:39] ok I wanted to add karmic discussion too, but I agree that's probably enough and that we can target the karmic stuff more thoroughly in another meeting [18:40] LaserJock: stgraber talked to cjwatson about enabling universe for edubuntu builds, and he said that it would be trivial to implement [18:40] implement/enable [18:40] yeah, I actually found the code for it a couple days ago [18:40] the problem will be Canonical supportability [18:41] LaserJock: ! [18:41] (for lack of any words) [18:41] we can build with Universe but I wonder how that effects the ability of users to buy support [18:41] I guess we can care about Canonical supportability again when they acknowledge that edubuntu exists in the first place [18:42] LaserJock: perhaps this is something that we need to discuss, afaik we were all cool with enabling universe [18:43] well, I think we would just want to talk with Canonical [18:43] let them know or whatever [18:43] ok, 100% [18:43] regardless of my feelings about Canonical's position, it's a big shift for our users if they can no longer buy support from Canonical [18:45] even if we do add Universe, what's going to happen? [18:45] LaserJock: stgraber made a good point, we don't want to go through all the hoops of getting something like sugar into main, but it would be nice on the add-on disc [18:45] do we drop all of Edubuntu to Universe? [18:45] do we just add on stuff that's not in Main right now? [18:46] LaserJock: well if something is in main and it can stay there I see no point in demoting it [18:46] how much and to what kind of .iso? [18:46] LaserJock: and if it's officially supported it should stay so if possible [18:46] I actually can see some point [18:46] right now I'm the only Core Dev [18:46] if we drop to Universe then you have the whole MOTU team as potential sponsors [18:46] LaserJock: yep and stgraber can upload some stuff into main [18:46] LaserJock: *nod* exactly [18:47] I think using Universe will be a major benefit [18:47] especially since we'll have the archive reorganization at some point and the difference will all go away [18:47] *but* we do need to think about the ramifications and how to best go about it [18:48] so that'd be a good topic for the meeting [18:48] indeed. we seem to get a good response from the community council when we ask them about things [18:48] hmm, perhaps we should ask the technical board about this specific issue? [18:49] what would they decide? [18:49] hmm, not that you mention it [18:49] maybe not so much decide as just give official blessing. although I guess tb != canonical [18:49] 1) we should ask Canonical what would happen if we drop to Universe [18:50] 2) we should ask the TB what to do about the .iso issue (addon or full distro, where is it hosted) [18:50] well "drop to universe" sounds harsh. perhaps rather say include packages from universe, since we won't drop main [18:50] LaserJock: yep. just keep in mind that we said we're planning full iso for karmic [18:50] well, there are some apps I would drop to Universe if we did [18:50] LaserJock: but of course it won't hurt getting all the groundwork done ASAP [18:50] what did we say? [18:51] ehm... full iso for karmic? [18:51] (or at least not earlier...) [18:52] really? [18:52] I thought we were talking about karmic+1 maybe since it's LTS [18:52] I'm here now [18:52] LaserJock: ugh, I suck [18:52] I scrolled up and saw my name mentioned [18:52] LaserJock: I meant karmic+1 [18:52] I still think we need to discuss the release strategy here [18:52] the consensus seems to be that we focus on LTS releases [18:52] which sounds good [18:53] but I'm not sure how that's going to work out in practice [18:53] LaserJock: yes, sorry I meant loopy not karmic [18:53] I thought I'd mention that its likely I start working for the Junta de Andalucia next month (Guadalinex) which is based on edubuntu and ubuntu and they want much closer ties to the edubuntu project [18:53] u guys have spoken to asanchez I take it [18:53] nubae: awesome news! [18:53] nubae: congrats! [18:53] yeah indeed, dream job... stupid pay, but dream job [18:54] so they say its the biggest edu linux deployment world wide [18:54] dont know how they are basing that, but sounds like one hell of a test pilot [18:54] LaserJock: so karmic = add-on disc, karmic+1 = full distro + addon disc (or some variation of this based on future discussion) [18:54] I'm not sure you can do both [18:54] nubae: test pilot? [18:55] nubae: Guadalinex has been a long time, but distant friend [18:55] LaserJock: I think add-on is important for people who want to support some apps from the edubuntu collection on something other than gnome [18:55] highvoltage: right, but I don't think we can get the hosting for both [18:55] well, right now, they are simply installing guadalinex directly on the machines [18:55] I think Edubuntu will get 1 image/.iso [18:55] LaserJock: asanches is actually hanging out here and wants to be a full edubuntu developer! [18:55] no distribution method, no ltsp [18:55] LaserJock: ok [18:56] LaserJock: well, it's possible to have a live CD repositories on it, the ubuntu live cd is like that currently [18:56] LaserJock: so perhaps it should just be a combined disc if possible? [18:56] highvoltage: I think we need to get some good AptOnCD instructions and have a good metapackage system for internet installs [18:57] well, we might be able to do some [18:57] but again, the problem is space [18:57] anyway I think I'll recommend to ditch guadalinex and localise edubuntu [18:57] LaserJock: hosting space? [18:57] so that work isnt done 10 times [18:57] highvoltage: we got bumped off of releases.ubuntu.com due to space [18:57] nubae: asanchez said that they'll use Edubuntu if we sort out the menu problems [18:58] highvoltage: we're gonna have to fight to get back on as it is, adding another GB or so will be very difficult [18:58] LaserJock: I feel strongly that it's totally, totally wrong for us to cripple ourselves in terms of features and what our users want because there's not space on a server [18:58] highvoltage: well, I know, but it *is* a limitation, it always has been in Ubuntu [18:58] highvoltage: +10 [18:59] we can talk with Mark and slangasek to see what can be done [18:59] my impression was that Edubuntu was dropped because it wasn't being used much [18:59] LaserJock: don't we have the option of hosting it elsewhere or buying some disks for them? [18:59] LaserJock: that kind of thinking will take us back to the stone age... take a look at how opensuse-edu is succeding because of their multiple image systems [18:59] they have images for usb/dvd/cd/virtual machine appliances [18:59] and it just really helps [18:59] nubae: heh, don't get LaserJock started [19:00] nubae: I totally realize that [19:00] I'm just being practical and realistic here [19:00] Ubuntu's mirror system is *very* nice to have [19:01] if we have to make a few compromises I think it could be worth it [19:01] LaserJock: you're right [19:01] Ubuntu's mirroring system isn't the end-of-all. There are many people who can and would provide free mirrors for us in case we host elsewhere. [19:01] LaserJock: I mean, canonical obviously has some restraints and it's not necessarilly their fault, and we need to work with them where we can to make things easier for everybody [19:01] well, it's not the end-of-all [19:01] Svenstaro: right, thats whats happened with sugar [19:01] grass roots mirrors [19:01] but Ubuntu does have mirrors in just about *every* country [19:01] works like a charm [19:02] we don't *need* mirrors in just about every country [19:02] look, what I see is that canonical should put SOME commitment to support edubuntu [19:02] they do [19:02] not enough [19:02] we just need to see how much we can get out of the pie [19:03] all the other distros have MUCH more support from their sponsors [19:03] when I mentioned to Mark that we got dropped he was pretty upset [19:03] in my strong opinion, edubuntu needs to be a DVD in order to be successful [19:03] highvoltage, I fully agree. [19:03] I think we could talk with him and see if we can get something going [19:03] well, there was all this talk about how important education was and we all know what happened [19:03] *but* somebody needs to do it [19:03] I can't think of any other way how we'll be able to meet the needs of our users by sticking to a CD [19:03] let's not just ditch everything without trying [19:03] I don't wanna beat a dead horse, but... [19:03] nubae: please, please don't say opensuse [19:04] well, here's my point [19:04] hehe, I wasnt going to, but now that u mention it... [19:04] :-) :p [19:04] with the exception of highvoltage talking with colin [19:04] I've yet to see anybody here talk to Ubuntu/Canonical about it [19:04] it was stgraber who talked to cjwatson [19:04] so we have *no* idea what's possible [19:04] LaserJock: ok, so we need to open some communication channels [19:04] so please exhaust the existing resources before heading outside Ubuntu [19:05] LaserJock, can't we just go ahead and assume that we ARE being hosted by Canonical and that they will continue? [19:05] because it really is preferable to use Ubuntu resources where possible [19:05] LaserJock: I feel confident that if we explain to them what we need and why that we'll get a good response [19:05] of course it is [19:05] Svenstaro: well, the only thing is that we're currently being hosted at ~ 300MB [19:05] right, it would be ludicrous for them to not take edubuntu seriously... but... they need to know that we still care [19:05] right [19:06] from the emails I've seen from other teams, it seems many think edubuntu is dead [19:06] and should be buried [19:06] that notion needs to dissapear [19:06] nubae: links please [19:06] I am confident that if Edubuntu turns around and we build a user base Canonical will be more than happy to host the .isos [19:06] LaserJock, I can take over the hosting, it's a non-issue. I'm not a good mirror at just 1TB of traffic but others will do that. Also we have bittorrent. [19:06] they're frankly just not going to spend resources on a failed project [19:06] *nod* [19:07] and recently edubuntu *has* been a failed project [19:07] *but* somebody does need to ask the release team if it'd be OK for us to work towards getting a DVD [19:07] last time I talked with slangasek he said no [19:07] but I think with a good plan of what we're doing with it [19:07] that there might be more motivation [19:08] yes, let's just do it through official channels and as formally as possible this time, along with a proposal of what we want on the dvd and how much space it will consume (more or less, of course) [19:08] I see no point in making anything BUT a cd/usb image [19:08] the education packages require that [19:08] sorry... DVD, not cd [19:08] I totally agree [19:08] there's no doubt that we need to move towards DVD/usb images [19:09] if the response is that it absolutely can't happen, and we can't change their mind, then we can create a wiki page explaining why we can't do certain things along with that response [19:09] *or* just do internet-only [19:09] highvoltage, why not just go ahead doing what we want on our own, if that happens? [19:09] LaserJock: I was surprised at UDS to discover that .za isn't the only country with heavy bandwidth issues, there were other people who also said that a dvd/usb disk would be beneficial because they have no bandwidth at the schools [19:10] yeah [19:10] Wondered why things were quiet [19:10] apparently I disconnected. [19:10] even in the US a DVD is nice to have [19:10] Afternoon all [19:10] Svenstaro: that's kind of what we're doing, but we want to do it properly, and we want to do it the ubuntu way and work with canonical to produce something supportable [19:10] Svenstaro: we're not currently limited to do much, really [19:10] ZaReason said that a DVD would be most helpful in them selling machines with pre-installed Edubuntu [19:11] afternoon sbalneav, welcome back [19:11] well, let's be clear here [19:11] have to go eat, biab [19:11] Canonical is *not* doing a lot of things [19:11] but Canonical still does a lot of stuff for Ubuntu as a whole [19:12] So, I had a look last night at ldapscripts [19:12] totally, Canonical does great work on and for Ubuntu, I don't have a slightest doubt about that [19:12] which does probably 85% of what we want. [19:13] sbalneav: have you been in touch with the ubuntu server team or followed the authentication server discussions that took place at UDS? [19:13] I don't know why Guadalinex isn't using edubuntu-menus [19:13] hey all [19:13] it's been around since like Edgy [19:14] sbalneav: there are plans for automating a lot of the ldappy stuff in karmic, but perhaps they can benefit from some of the stuff you work on? [19:14] have any issues popped up with edubuntu and compiz? [19:14] LaserJock: can the edubuntu-menus sort the applications by grade like they have it? [19:14] highvoltage: haven't seen a spec yet [19:14] highvoltage: it can do whatever you want [19:14] is there one? [19:14] coz_: edubuntu+compiz is exactly the same as ubuntu+compiz [19:14] coz_: specifically what? [19:14] sbalneav: I'm searching for it... [19:15] nothing in particular guys just wondering [19:15] I don't know of any particular issues [19:15] some apps work better than others with compositing [19:16] coz_: LTSP is doing work on getting compiz in LTSP working nicely, but that's about it in terms of compiz and edubuntu [19:16] highvoltage, ok cool [19:17] no one has come into #compiz with edubuntu so I was just wondering if you guys had anyone withissues no biggie :) [19:17] sbalneav: here's one, I'm sure there's more on it... looking... https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NetworkDirectoryUserLogin [19:18] sbalneav: ah here's the other one: https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/server-karmic-directory-enabled-services [19:23] LaserJock: can I find documentation on edubuntu-menus anywhere? [19:23] no [19:24] the package itself is fairly simple and self-explanatory [19:24] ok [19:24] if we really want to make a push for it we'll want documentation of course [19:24] but right now it's basically proof-of-concept [19:24] however [19:24] ok, I just want to investigate whether it would be useful for guadalinex [19:25] Ubuntu Studio did use it for the basis of their menus [19:25] of course it would be :-) [19:25] currently they modify 43 packages to change the .desktop files to get to what they want [19:25] the guadalinex case is the *exact* reason I built it [19:25] yeah, that's really nuts [19:25] ok cool [19:25] I have no idea why they did that [19:25] :-) [19:25] well I'll try to figure out how it works and will ping you if I get stuck, I'll put together a guide that they can test out [19:25] basically they're modifying the menu at the .desktop file level, at the menu items themselves [19:26] LaserJock: they said that they'd use plain edubuntu if we can get that right [19:26] what i did was to modify the way in which the menu gets built in the first place [19:26] LaserJock: that's a *big* win imho [19:26] huge! [19:26] LaserJock: if canonical still wants to shun us after that they can go... erm (pm) [19:27] highvoltage: I've subscribed to both of them, but I have a sinking feeling that, like a lot of previous attempts to "get the ldap situation in ubuntu fixed", they're too ambitious, and won't be met. [19:27] I don't think Canonical shuns us [19:28] they're just not putting resources into projects that aren't working [19:28] they've made some mistakes in the past, no doubt [19:28] but I believe Mark wants Edubuntu to succeed very much [19:29] sbalneav: indeed. I do find it encouraging though that there is renewed energy on the issue, and if you have breakthroughs then it would be cool if you shared it on the spec/wiki, imho [19:29] Sure. [19:30] One of the big things that would help, is fixing up ldap scripts [19:30] sorry, ldapscripts [19:30] it needs 3 things to be useful to us, and should be easy to patch. [19:31] 1) adherance to the "users primary group is same as userid" standard method of doing groups in Linux [19:32] 2) default addition of support for shadow password support (i.e. expiry, passwd aging, disabling, etc.) [19:32] LaserJock: at the risk of sounding like a broken record, they really should make a plan for server space for us if there's a problem there currently. it's not like disk space is expensive, it's not like we're asking to host some weird bebibuntu derivative or something [19:32] highvoltage: right, but we need to request it [19:32] LaserJock, I had a peek at all the info you gave me, and it seems the only thing I would have to do is write a 'seed', a package selection and pass it onto the ubuntu release folks? [19:32] 3) a tie in to the systems-tools-backends package. [19:32] sbalneav: how about adding that to the wiki page/spec? [19:32] highvoltage: we got dropped I believe at the last minute because of UNR [19:33] highvoltage: but Mark told me that he was surprised about it and that we should get our space back [19:33] highvoltage: we just need to make our case and *communicate* with them [19:33] LaserJock: ok, we're going over things we've been through before, let's move on [19:33] Svenstaro: we already have seeds [19:33] LaserJock: what channel should we follow? should we take this up with the TB? [19:34] Svenstaro: so it would basically just be a matter of modifying or adding a new seed [19:34] highvoltage: bleh [19:34] why is the meeting at that time :( [19:34] but there are some bits that do need to be changed so that the current addon disk can be made into a DVD [19:34] highvoltage: I would maybe start with cjwatson/slangasek and see [19:34] LaserJock, I wasn't able to find the existing seeds. Where would they be? [19:35] LaserJock: ok [19:36] pygi: we asked in the channel and that suited people in the euro and american timezones well [19:36] highvoltage: :( [19:36] I am traveling to my hometown [19:36] Svenstaro: the seeds for karmic are at https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/edubuntu.karmic [19:36] LaserJock: how do you want to approach it, should we start a conversation with them on IRC? or e-mail for records? [19:37] IRC would be fine for initial conversations [19:37] to see what needs to be done [19:37] pygi: we wanted to give enough notice since it will be an EC meeting, but we can schedule an EC meeting again for later this month [19:37] we just don't know [19:37] it could be trivial [19:38] pygi: we'll have other edubuntu meetings at least weekly [19:38] highvoltage: translate EC? [19:38] council? [19:38] pygi: si [19:38] oh well, you have fun then, I have nothing to do here :p [19:38] sbalneav: woah! http://system-tools-backends.freedesktop.org/dbus-spec.html => are these specs actually implemented? [19:40] sbalneav: btw, it's not that I'm not interested, I just think your input would be really useful to the server team who wants to implement these things [19:46] alkisg: argh [19:47] yeah, and THEY don't have anything in there for shadow support either. [19:47] criminy [19:47] I had to add shadow support to pam-ldap, I've had to add it to ltsp :) [19:47] Seems like my whole life is spent getting people to support a standard that's been around for yonks and yonks. [19:48] They do have a field named "User Encrypted Password" [19:48] password last changed [19:48] And I like the network interfaces dbus interface [19:48] min password age [19:48] max password age [19:48] etc. [19:49] If you can't expire passwords, you will never, EVER be considered even remotely applicable for most corporate, school, or government institutions. [19:49] Most government/corporate places want password aging every 90 days [19:50] schools want accounts to auto-expire at the end of the term [19:50] etc. [19:50] Yes, what you're saying is reasonable... I wonder why they didn't put support for that in the spec. [19:52] Because everyone forgets it. [19:52] highvoltage: well, that's about what I figured [19:54] it sucks losing the Ubuntu mirrors [19:54] LaserJock: I'm ok with the answer we have from him, just having it on cdimage is better than nothing, we'll just manually have to arrange some mirrors, if we can get 2 per continent that would already be ok, but let's not get ahead of ourselves [19:54] yeah [19:54] we could put out a call [19:54] and lean on bittorrent a lot [19:54] LaserJock: I think the old edubuntu versions and gobuntu can really be removed, but I won't go into that with slangasek now [19:55] Ah, looks as if upstream for systems-tools-backend has support for it. [19:56] highvoltage: can you take care of the TB agenda item? [19:56] LaserJock: just added it [19:56] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda [19:56] ok awesome [19:56] that's progress! [19:56] well, my connection is slow so it might still be posting :) [19:57] LaserJock: egh, we missed a TB meeting today [19:57] yeah [19:57] we'll just have to catch the next one [19:58] we're not in a huge rush [20:00] I'm anxious for us to make progress though [20:00] people are keeping an eye on the project wondering whether it will flourish of flounder [20:01] I'd like to show real, steady and constant progress [20:01] but I agree, we don't have to rush it [20:11] stgraber: I have 50 minutes until the meeting right? [20:13] highvoltage: patience my friend, patience is the virtue [20:14] pygi: that's the best thing I ever heard you say [20:14] highvoltage: I am not sure if I should feel insulted or honored :p [20:16] pygi: hehe [20:16] highvoltage: I'll post the video of you singing now! [20:17] pygi: you're bluffing! [20:17] wanna bet? :D [20:17] no, I'll just stay quiet then. [20:17] * highvoltage looks through the CoC to see if there's anything about blackmail [20:19] highvoltage: ha! :) [20:19] I think I revoked my CoC signature, not sure xD [20:20] * bencrisford looks through the CoC to see if there is anything about bribing people for membership testimonials [20:20] bencrisford: there is [20:20] * bencrisford grins :D [20:20] oh :( [20:20] can I give you one advice? [20:20] * bencrisford revokes signiture, bribes, then signs again :D [20:21] pygi: Can you give me one advice? Sorry, I don't understand..? [20:21] I think I decided after two years of contribution to go for membership [20:21] oh ? [20:21] the reason is that I had all the doors open without even being a member [20:21] in that time I also got some of the packages uploaded in main [20:21] well technically i have [20:21] as documentation is in main] [20:22] :), but i guess that dont count [20:22] people will listen if you have something to say, even if you're member [20:22] not* [20:22] pygi +1 [20:22] guadelinux folks are great example, I think highvoltage and stgraber will agree that we've learned a lot from them [20:23] they are good people [20:23] highvoltage: ^_^ [20:23] better then you for sure :p [20:23] * pygi hides from highvoltage's rage [20:25] * bencrisford disagrees! [20:25] * bencrisford is a proud subsriber of highvoltage's blog [20:25] * bencrisford warns pygi not to cross him [20:25] or there will be consequences... [20:25] bencrisford: nah, he's great actually, I just love to joke him around :p [20:25] :P hehe [20:26] if you guys were on the membership board, would you say yes or no to me? :/ [20:29] bencrisford: highvoltage is on the membership board(edubuntu one) but I'd say no [20:29] I want you to become a member as well as you, but I don't want you to become a member just for the sake of being a member [20:29] this is ubuntu membership pygi, not edubuntu [20:30] oh :P still, the same answer :) [20:30] and i resent that im being a member for the sake of it, thats far from the truth :P [20:30] bencrisford: how many testimonials do you have? [20:30] * bencrisford mutters... "two.." [20:31] but i haven't told many people i work with on ubuntu about my membership application [20:32] maybe i shoulda done, but i didnt wanna make people feel they had to give me testimonials because im so beautifal and lovely :) :P [20:33] I don't know, I think it'd be close for me [20:33] :S [20:33] but I have no idea how the member boards have been doing things for the last year or so [20:33] bencrisford: you'll certainly get there, it's just a matter of when the time is right [20:34] but in ubuntu, you kind of need it in order to start development according to the wiki... [20:34] people just dont get taken seriously without the status [20:34] the system sucks IMO [20:34] i would be happier if it werent there at all [20:35] huh, you need recommendations to be a edubuntu member? [20:35] * Svenstaro overhears something after reconnecting [20:35] Svenstaro: yes :p [20:35] Now that's very open and welcoming for people who want to help out. [20:36] heh [20:36] I already told you [20:36] you don't have to be a member to contribute [20:36] im not becoming an edubuntu member Svenstaro, lol id have no chance of getting that :P [20:36] im up for ubuntu membership [20:36] Like there was no shortage of contributors or anything :D [20:37] bencrisford: how long have you been contributing to ubuntu? [20:37] pygi, that's like, yeah sure we'll take your stuff. What, you want privileges in return? Screw you! Worthless contributor! [20:37] Svenstaro: its not like that [20:37] dunno, a while :P, but I spend most of my time nowadays on ubuntu stuff highvoltage, looking at the criteria - i, personally think I deserve it. but it doesnt matter what i think :P [20:38] bencrisford: 6 months? more than a year? [20:38] bencrisford: there is *absolutely* no requirement for you to be a Member to contribute to development [20:38] Ubuntu Membership is a recognition of effort, not a status symbol [20:39] Svenstaro: being a member is just a recognition of your contribution [20:39] yes [20:39] LaserJock: ++ [20:39] LaserJock: Not to contribute, but to start joining teams, and incrementing your development roles... universe-contributors allows people with ubuntu membership or ready for it, its a requirement [20:40] members also get IRC cloaks, @ubuntu.com e-mail addresses, get to post onto the ubuntu planet, in short, they become reprasentatives of ubuntu and you can't hand that out like sweeties [20:40] bencrisford: I don't think it is a requirement [20:40] you need to know that someone can be trusted and that they are in it for the long hauls [20:40] you need to be ready for it at least LaserJock [20:40] bencrisford: Ubuntu Membership is require for MOTU [20:40] and contributors [20:40] no [20:40] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopers#ContribDev [20:40] Contributors is how you can get Membership [20:40] like what we do with Edubuntu [20:41] the universe contributors is an official team [20:41] yes [20:41] its half way from prospective to motu [20:41] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopers#ContribDev [20:41] I helped create it, I'm aware of what it is [20:41] oh, well even if you didnt, i know you'd know more than me :), but it does say there [20:42] when you become a Contributing Developer you *get* Membership [20:42] i know [20:42] but it's not a pre-condition [20:42] well you need to be ready for it [20:42] and in fact Contributing Developer is not required for anything [20:43] the point is, with the exception of some advanced teams, Ubuntu Membership is not required to join teams [20:43] well, i guess, but my point is that ubuntu membership is like a qualification for the ubuntu community [20:43] and it is flat out not required to contribute [20:43] ... [20:44] bencrisford: I just looked at your wiki page, it's very nice all the things you've been getting involved with [20:44] like take dchen [20:44] bencrisford: haven't I told you that I didn't *WANT* to become a member for two years? [20:44] pygi: I don't care if i don't get membership [20:44] bencrisford: but it seems that it's all very recent things, you might have trouble proving the sustainability part yet [20:44] it would just be a nice recognition [20:44] highvoltage: it used to be two months sustained contribution [20:45] highvoltage: I'm definately here to stay, and ive had more than two months... [20:45] pygi: yeah there was a loco session at the UDS where they discussed that there was a perception that membership was given too easily and that it should be fixed [20:46] agreed [20:46] bencrisford: I'm not putting you down, just giving some advice. I'm definitely not going to stop you from going for membership [20:46] for sure [20:46] im not gonna be all that bothered if i don't get membership, you're saying i want it too bad, i dont want it that much at all, it would just be a nice recognition of the nights ive been up in the early hours of the morning triaging bugs :P:P:P [20:46] highvoltage: I agree [20:47] bencrisford: I'm convinced that if you don't get it the first time round, you'll certainly get it in the future if you keep at it [20:47] bencrisford: I've been up not sleeping for three years now :) [20:47] (And joking everyone around me :p) [20:47] pygi: Haha :P :) [20:47] talking of which, I really need to get some sleep myself [20:47] g'night edub [20:47] night ;) [20:47] night highvoltage [20:47] *edubuntu (see the stuff I try to autocomplete when I'm sleepy) [20:48] highvoltage: cheers dude [20:48] Night highvoltage [20:59] All the server stuff depends on getting Kerberos set up. Not an insurmountable problem, but puts a LOT more work for the small-time sysadmin to try to learn krb5 concepts. [21:01] can that be overcome at all with education/documentation? [21:01] Well, wish me luck with the membership meeting ;). But i'm sixth, so you never know i might not even get fitted in today! [21:02] bencrisford: good luck! [21:02] ty :) [21:02] but i can only stay an hour [21:02] and im sixth :/ [21:39] In case anyone's interested. I went to the membership meeting, got straight +0s. So it coulda been worse :). Nevermind, :/. [21:45] haha! 45 minutes after my membership meeting, my phone reminder for it goes off [21:45] typical :P:P:P [21:46] straight +0's? [21:47] yep [21:47] they werent -1s [21:47] so its not that bad [21:48] sbalneav: they just needed more evidence of sustained contribution [21:48] and right now i have a wide spread of contributions all over the place, they would like a more sustained contribution in one or two areas [21:49] Takes a while. I've been contributing to Free Software for 15 years :) [21:50] yeah, and nice :) [21:52] sbalneav: and you still didnt implement burning over iscsi :P [21:53] pygi: not a priority for me :) [21:53] I scratch my own itches :) [21:54] how rude :p [21:54] No, just practial :) [21:54] Practical [21:54] maybe by retirement, I'll learn how to type [22:11] Well, I think I'll put in some more work on Sabayon tonight. [22:11] After a week, I've received no feedback on any of my packages. [22:14] Night everyone, pygi ;), sbalneav ;), stgraber ;) [22:17] Good night. [22:30] Off home for the day. On later tonight. [22:30] Hi all