[00:02] <BUGabundo> what's up with python-glade ?
[00:02] <BUGabundo> Err http://darkstar.ist.utl.pt karmic/main python-gtk2 2.15.1-0ubuntu1
[00:02] <BUGabundo>   404 Not Found
[00:02] <BUGabundo> humm actually pythong gtk
[00:08] <kklimonda> mirrors are out of sync?
[00:11] <BUGabundo> maybe
[00:11] <BUGabundo> either that or someone set 404 on files again
[00:11] <BUGabundo> to prevent upgrades
[00:11] <BUGabundo> let me rerun it, and if fail, change servers
[00:15] <dtchen> BUGabundo: seems available on us.archive
[00:16] <plars> I have a bug against linux kernel that I would like to link to the upstream task, but the only current task is with linux (Ubuntu), what's the magic to open a task against Linux so that I can link to the upstream?
[00:16] <dtchen> plars: which bug #?
[00:16] <plars> dtchen: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/381196
[00:16] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 381196 in linux "network card/driver (sis190) doesn't notice when cable is unplugged" [Undecided,New]
[00:17] <BUGabundo> thanks dtchen
[00:19] <dtchen> plars: you should choose "Also affects project"
[00:19] <dtchen> plars: then use the search dialog (ugh) to find Linux
[00:19] <plars> dtchen: hmm, I thought I tried that and it returned a list of pretty much every known package
[00:20] <plars> will try again
[00:20] <dtchen> plars: yes, the search is awful
[00:20] <dtchen> plars: i've already linked it for you
[00:20] <plars> *sigh* ok
[00:21]  * cwillu pokes BUGabundo with a stick
[00:21] <dtchen> sorry, i've been playing with LP for so long that its black magick bits are second nature :/
[00:21] <BUGabundo> cwillu: don't poke too much.. you may break it
[00:21]  * cwillu checks the stick
[00:21] <cwillu> still good
[00:22] <BUGabundo> plars: humm I have and older bug for that
[00:22]  * BUGabundo hates SiS HW
[00:22] <BUGabundo> cwillu: LOL
[00:23] <cwillu> so, if pm-utils is making vbetool unnecessary vbetool calls that breaks my suspend with kms enabled, who should I go poke?
[00:23] <dtchen> the pm-utils maintainers :)
[00:24] <cwillu> I'm curious if any of them hide around here :)
[00:25] <cwillu> already added pm-utils to the relevant bug, but was hoping to have a conversation while I have a laptop that I can demonstrate the problem on handy
[00:36] <cwillu> wow it looks good to have native resolution vterms
[01:48] <bcurtiswx> hggdh: are you there?
[01:52] <persia> bcurtiswx, I'll recommend giving context when asking for someone.  Many IRC clients allow the user to review highlight lines, which can be confusing without information.
[01:52] <bcurtiswx> hggdh: may I PM you?
[01:52] <bcurtiswx> persia: ty sry :D
[01:52] <BUGabundo> hey persia
[01:52] <persia> bcurtiswx, No need to be sorry :)
[01:52] <persia> Hi BUGabundo
[01:53] <bcurtiswx> hi BUGabundo
[01:53] <BUGabundo> hey bcurtiswx
[02:14] <bcurtiswx> mrooney: im reading the spec on making banshee the default player for Ubuntu.  You mention a need to focus on regression bugs (or bugs in general) for banshee.  I think a bug day would be a great start to help you out!
[02:15] <mrooney> bcurtiswx: yeah, that could be good, but we need some official way to triage them first :)
[02:16] <mrooney> something like a karmic-transition tag, so the desktop team can easily see what the main issues are and track their progress
[02:16] <bcurtiswx> mrooney: yeah I was just thinking something like that
[02:17] <mrooney> and really it would be like a QA day, probably involving filing bugs too?
[02:17] <mrooney> I emailed jcastro about this I think
[02:18] <mrooney> something that results in a nice list on a wiki or bug search and the desktop team can pick important ones and milestone them
[02:18] <bcurtiswx> well, a hug day could focus on tagging banshee bugs with a "karmic-transition".. QA day could add ones not already there... having the hug day first to see whats already out there
[02:21] <bcurtiswx> mrooney: i can add a tag to the https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Tags page.
[02:21] <mrooney> bcurtiswx: yeah that could be good, some standard would be nice
[02:22] <mrooney> that we could use say for empathy as well and future default swaps
[02:22] <bcurtiswx> yeah, hmmm.. something generic
[02:23] <mrooney> maybe as-default-<release> or <release>-default-transition
[02:23] <mrooney> I don't think the package name needs to be there as probably all the bugs would be on that package?
[02:24] <persia> I'm not sure why it needs a special transition tag.  We didn't usually do that in the past when there was a change.
[02:24] <persia> It's clear that it's banshee that needs review, but that's likely in general, rather than only a subset of bugs.
[02:24] <bcurtiswx> i was thinking "transition-regression": Bugs that have potential issues as they transition to default in a development release
[02:24] <mrooney> persia: but that doesn't mean it wouldn't improve QA and help upstream know what our the top things to fix
[02:25] <bcurtiswx> maybe my wording could be better
[02:25] <persia> mrooney, Hrm.
[02:25] <persia> I think I like bcurtiswx's suggestion better: the set of behaviours that regress due to the transition is probably more interesting than that the package is transitioning.
[02:26] <mrooney> yeah that seems good
[02:26] <bcurtiswx> ok, i will add it to the generic section of the bugs/tags page
[02:26] <mrooney> I just think some way to generate a list of the regressions and track them is important
[02:27] <mrooney> plus if we have a standard we can encourage testing and bug filing in a more actionable way
[02:27] <persia> mrooney, Just be careful: I'm sure that some folk will complain that they lost some of their metadata (e.g. ratings), but I'm not sure that class of thing is easily fixed.
[02:28] <persia> There's probably the class of "the button moved and I can't find it" bugs as well.
[02:28] <mrooney> persia: well the tag doesn't mean the things have to fixed, just that they are regressions being tracked
[02:29] <persia> I understand.  I just don't think it's worth tracking those classes of change (UI changes, internal storage changes), as they are inherently unfixable.
[02:29] <mrooney> sure, we can invalidate those
[02:29] <bcurtiswx> wow, wiki.ubuntu.com is sloooooooow
[02:29] <persia> Those with installed systems can continue to use Rhythmbox, and the issues don't affect new installs.
[02:30] <bcurtiswx> ok transition-regression added to the bugs/tags list
[02:30] <mrooney> well there is a migration from RB as well so, that makes it nice in this case
[02:31] <mrooney> I think it brings over all that stuff
[02:31] <mrooney> same for empathy
[02:31] <persia> Hrm?  We're forcing users to switch, rather than just installing the other by default?
[02:31] <bcurtiswx> I will send an e-mail to the bug squad list mentioning the new tag..
[02:32] <mrooney> I meant each has an importer from the previous default
[02:32] <mrooney> not to imply that it will be forced but that users already using one can migrate without too much pain / loss
[02:32] <lifeless> persia: data is good
[02:32] <lifeless> persia: and ui bugs are most certainly fixable; the fix may not be what the user asks for though :)
[02:33] <persia> lifeless, UI bugs are good when they indicate an issue with the UI of the program they are filed against.  UI bugs are less good when they indicate an attachment to an alternative.  e.g. "I can't find the Start button on my GNOME Desktop".
[02:35] <lifeless> persia: sure; I'd turn that into 'Need a Switch-To-Ubuntu manual/video' and mark lots of duplicates :)
[02:36] <persia> lifeless, Hrm.  Hadn't thought of them as documentation bugs.  I bow to your greater insight :)
[02:37] <bcurtiswx> mrooney: are there any bugs you know of right now that fits the "transition-regression" tag right now?
[02:37] <mrooney> bcurtiswx: yeah, one sec
[02:37] <bcurtiswx> haha, sorry for the  "right now" twice
[02:37] <lifeless> The next 10-fold increase will give us 10 times the confused users :)
[02:38] <bcurtiswx> lifeless: as long as there are resources out there, I believe that there's no worry for confusing users.. they'll learn
[02:39] <lifeless> bcurtiswx: the more people we reach, the less individually motivated-about-the-tech-or-philosophy they are
[02:39] <lifeless> bcurtiswx: we need to be making Ubuntu, *and* the surrounding resources, better to reach them well
[02:40] <mrooney> bcurtiswx: there's https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/banshee/+bug/235529 and the most prominent perhaps http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=385965, not sure if we have a downstream for that
[02:40] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 235529 in banshee "no option for audio to fade out on exit/stop, fade in on play/resume" [Wishlist,Confirmed]
[02:41] <bcurtiswx> lifeless: i think the idea of a "install movie" helps this out.. as it gives installers a basic idea on how to navigate ubuntu. but i agree, you make things better the less resources they'll need to learn things.. but as of right now the resources are typically available (#ubuntu channel, ubuntu forums etc...)
[02:42] <mrooney> bcurtiswx: here is my little sandbox :) https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MikeRooney/KarmicBansheeAsDefault
[02:42] <mrooney> I was going to put it up as the wiki spec but not a single person responded on the whiteboard, I was a little disappointed with the preparation for that session
[02:43] <mrooney> anyway time to head out for now I'll be back in a few!
[02:43] <bcurtiswx> mrooney: ok enjoy.. i see documentation team will have some work to do with Banshee
[02:45] <bcurtiswx> maco: may I PM you?
[02:51] <hggdh> bcurtiswx, I am now here
[02:52] <bcurtiswx> hggdh: i have updated my wiki page if you wanted to view the changes since I last showed you
[02:52] <hggdh> heh. Mind giving me the page again? ;-)
[02:54] <bcurtiswx> hggdh: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/BCurtisWX
[02:54] <hggdh> well... I had not been able to git pull from GNU for the last few days. So I went there and... savannah is down hard, with potential losses to git/svn/etc...
[02:54] <bcurtiswx> eek
[02:55] <lifeless> ?!
[03:07] <hggdh> bcurtiswx, I like it
[03:08] <hggdh> BTW, left you a gift
[03:08] <bcurtiswx> hggdh: ty :)
[03:48] <bcurtiswx> gnite all
[06:22] <micahg> should I tag something with needs-reassignment?  I usually just delete the package name.
[06:23] <micahg> It drops into the Ubuntu main section
[06:24] <persia> micahg, I don't think that tag would be very useful.  Can you not reassign directly?
[06:24] <micahg> you can, but I didn't know where
[06:24] <micahg> so I usually just delete the package name which drops it into the Ubuntu general pool
[06:25] <persia> When I find a bug like that, I usually ask here.  Which bug?
[06:26] <micahg> bug 382439
[06:26] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 382439 in ubuntu "Nikon CoolPix S550 camera will not mount" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/382439
[06:27] <micahg> persia: if you want, go ahead and assign to proper package.  I need to go to sleep
[06:28] <persia> Good night :)
[06:30] <persia> micahg, I've reassigned to f-spot.  I'm not sure if that's right, but the error does mention some issue with F-spot talking to D-bus, and I suspect someone familiar with f-spot would be in a better position to determine where it belongs.
[06:57] <dholbach> good morning
[06:58] <YoBoY> good morning
[09:24] <jpds> !info ubuntu-desktop
[09:24] <ubot4> jpds: ubuntu-desktop (source: ubuntu-meta): The Ubuntu desktop system. In component main, is optional. Version 1.140 (jaunty), package size 28 kB, installed size 56 kB
[09:24] <jpds> Hobbsee: Erm, it already does jaunty.
[09:24] <lifeless> nice
[09:24] <lifeless> !info subunit
[09:24] <ubot4> lifeless: Package subunit does not exist in jaunty
[09:24] <lifeless> !info subunit/karmic
[09:24] <ubot4> lifeless: Package subunitkarmic does not exist in jaunty
[09:24] <lifeless> !info karmic/subunit
[09:24] <ubot4> lifeless: Package karmicsubunit does not exist in jaunty
[09:24] <jpds> lifeless: s/'/'//
[09:24] <lifeless> !info subunit karmic
[09:24] <ubot4> lifeless: karmic is not a valid distribution ['hardy', 'intrepid', 'jaunty']
[09:25] <jpds> Oh, OK, got get that fixed.
[09:25] <jpds> got to*
[09:29] <jpds> !info subunit karmic
[09:30] <ubot4> jpds: Package subunit does not exist in karmic
[10:10] <xteejx> Hey guys!
[10:10] <BUGabundo> hey xteejx
[10:10] <BUGabundo> hey kklimonda bcurtiswx
[10:10] <xteejx> hey BUGabundo :)
[10:20] <xteejx> !sysvinit
[10:20] <ubot4> Factoid 'sysvinit' not found
[10:20] <xteejx> !search sysv
[10:20] <ubot4> None found
[10:20] <xteejx> grr
[10:26] <Pici> !upstart
[10:26] <ubot4> Upstart is meant to replace the old Sys V Init system with an event-driven init model.  For more information please see: http://upstart.ubuntu.com/
[10:26]  * Pici shrugs
[10:27] <xteejx> pici, when did that come in?
[10:27] <xteejx> 6.10+ no worries
[10:27] <Pici> yes ;)
[10:28] <xteejx> It was about bug 125710, that's filed against sysvinit
[10:28] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 125710 in sysvinit "bootlogd not working (sysvinit) - nothing has been logged yet" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/125710
[10:42] <xteejx> Are there no apport hooks for Hardy, or is it just a few in Intrepid and all in Jaunty?
[10:47] <xteejx> BUGabundo, Can apport-collect for the linux kernel be used in Hardy or is it just Jaunty onwards?
[10:48] <xteejx> or if anyone can answer that please? I'm pretty sure its just Jaunty and a couple of hook in Intepid, I just want to make sure :)
[10:50] <YoBoY> xteejx: apport-collect is not in hardy i think
[10:51] <YoBoY> don't know if i can use the hooks of the "old" apport present in hardy
[10:52] <xteejx> YoBoy, didn't think so, was just making sure so I didn't look stupid in the bug reports lol :)
[10:53] <YoBoY> xteejx: it's a python script... you can give it a try ^^
[10:53] <xteejx> hehe
[10:54] <YoBoY> if it don't look for the apport version, or something else you can report a bug ;)
[10:56] <xteejx> I don't believe they will be backporting the apport-collect function to Hardy
[10:58] <Hobbsee> jpds: i thought I asked for karmic?  If not, I meant to.
[10:58] <Hobbsee> !info ubuntu-desktop karmic
[10:58] <ubot4> Hobbsee: ubuntu-desktop (source: ubuntu-meta): The Ubuntu desktop system. In component main, is optional. Version 1.142 (karmic), package size 28 kB, installed size 56 kB
[10:58] <Hobbsee> jpds: oh, excellent.  Thanks
[10:58] <jpds> 03:06:13 #ubuntu-ops: <+Hobbsee> jpds: oh, yes please.  For it to recognise jaunty in !info packagname releasename
[10:59] <jpds> Anyway, all set and done now.
[10:59] <Hobbsee> jpds: i've been getting that confused for weeks now.
[10:59] <xteejx> ooo ubotu works for karmic now? :)
[11:00] <xteejx> !info linux karmic
[11:00] <ubot4> xteejx: linux (source: linux-meta): Generic complete Linux kernel.. In component restricted, is optional. Version 2.6.30.6.5 (karmic), package size 2 kB, installed size 32 kB
[11:00] <xteejx> woohoo
[11:00] <xteejx> hang on....linux kernel....OPTIONAL!???
[11:01] <lifeless> yes
[11:02] <lifeless> it has to be to allow replacements easily
[11:03] <xteejx> hmmmm
[11:03] <xteejx> just sounded wrong lol :)
[13:08] <xteejx> ermmmmmmmm HELP - VERY important - should bug 147464 be set to high or CRITICAL?
[13:08] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 147464 in nfs-utils "Heavy network activity (eg: torrent/nfs file transfers) causes Hard System Locks and/or Network Freezes." [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/147464
[13:09] <xteejx> I'm thinking MAYBE critical - probably high
[13:09] <xteejx> it could well affect a LOT of user
[13:09] <xteejx> s
[13:10] <xteejx> I'll set it as High, if anyone thinks it should be higher than than, i.e. critical, buzz me :)
[13:12] <Hobbsee> oh, that bug again
[13:14] <Hobbsee> if it's been open for 2 years, and only has 161 comments, it clearly doesn't affect *that* many people
[13:14] <Hobbsee> fwiw
[13:18] <xteejx> Hobbsee, I set it to High anyway, it cause system failures
[13:18] <xteejx> quite severe i would say
[13:18] <Hobbsee> xteejx: the importance isn't going to make any difference if no one's actually able to track it down
[13:18] <ogra> right
[13:18] <xteejx> true
[13:19] <xteejx> I Triaged it though so thats about as much as I can do for that one
[13:19] <Hobbsee> but by all means, set it high and hope - my guess, based on the previous stuff on the bug, is that it won't make a difference
[13:19] <xteejx> I have a funny feeling you're right :(
[13:20] <Hobbsee> would be nice to fix, though
[13:20] <xteejx> definitely
[13:21] <xteejx> Can't believe the apport hook for the kernel though...12 log files!!
[13:21] <xteejx> was kinda surprised when i checked my inbox lol
[13:27] <askand> hggdh: Hi again :) I have now deactivated compiz but still get crashes, nautilus crashed with SIGSEGV recently
[14:55] <andre__> ....so are there any enhancement requests in ubuntu's launchpad or is that purely up to brainstorm?
[15:12] <bddebian> Boo
[15:16] <persia> andre__, There are thousands in launchpad (blueprints), but the interface needs love (hence brainstorm).  Adding more won't help, because the developers can't track the set that exist in LP now.
[15:17] <andre__> i was simply wondering how bug reports (=clearly launchpad) vs enhancement requests are handled
[15:17] <ogra> you can file whishlist bugs indeed
[15:17] <andre__> in launchpad? hmm.
[15:17] <ogra> sure
[15:18] <ogra> for features to be added in specific packages
[15:18] <andre__> so for enhancement request about specific packages there's launchpad, and for the broader view there's brainstorm?
[15:19] <ogra> you cant use LP bugs for something as generic as requesting fature foo in the distro ... most of the time that does touch multiple packages etc
[15:19] <ogra> *feature
[15:19] <andre__> okay, thanks a lot for the info
[15:19] <ogra> if its "print around the corner in openoffice" thats surely rather is a whishlist bug
[15:21] <andre__> sure. i'm used to bugtriaging, i just wondered about when brainstorm and when launchpad is used for wishlist tickets...
[15:21] <andre__> thanks
[15:21] <ogra> if it is "switch ubuntu to blackbox as default desktop env" thats rather touching a lot more and deserves a blueprint or brainstorm entry
[15:22] <andre__> okay. so the decision is common sense, kind of...
[15:23] <ogra> well, single package change vs. touching multiple packages and defaults i'd say
[15:24] <andre__> thanks. that's helpful.
[15:24] <xteejx> andre_ : General feature requests or changes are meant for Brainstorm, usually package specific requests are filed in LP. If you're not sure best to do both and link the two.
[16:51] <xteejx> Anyone here speak Czech/Slovakian?
[16:52] <xteejx> hey ben
[16:52] <xteejx> I'm not avail for pvt :)
[16:55] <dholbach> xteejx: tried #ubuntu-cz or #ubuntu-sk?
[16:55] <bencrisford> xteejx: Can you set the importance to wishlist please?
[16:55] <bencrisford> to...
[16:55] <bencrisford> bug 306876
[16:55] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 306876 in gcompris "Translations not installed with gcompris by default." [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/306876
[16:56] <xteejx> dholbach, not yet Dan, will do thanks :)
[16:57] <xteejx> bencrisford, why have you assigned it to yourself, are you working on the package?
[16:57] <bencrisford> yurp
[16:57] <bencrisford> im trying to fix it
[16:57] <xteejx> you packaging? :O
[16:57] <bencrisford> yeah.. :/
[16:57] <bencrisford> god help us all!
[16:57] <bencrisford> :P
[16:57] <xteejx> i'm tempted to assign it to someone else lol jk i wouldn't really :D
[16:58] <bencrisford> heh
[16:58] <xteejx> hehe well good luck!
[16:59] <bencrisford> ty, ill need it :D
[16:59] <xteejx> hehe
[16:59] <xteejx> omg the weather guy on sky news is useless, i could fart a better forecast
[17:00] <bencrisford> xteejx: Go on then :P
[17:00]  * xteejx farts....."It's going to be windy"
[17:00] <xteejx> !info gdb jaunty
[17:00] <ubot4> xteejx: jaunty is not a valid distribution ['hardy', 'intrepid', 'karmic']
[17:01] <xteejx> !info gdb
[17:01] <ubot4> xteejx: jaunty is not a valid distribution ['hardy', 'intrepid', 'karmic']
[17:01] <xteejx> i didn't SAY jaunty that time stupid bot
[17:01] <bencrisford> !info gdb
[17:01] <ubot4> bencrisford: jaunty is not a valid distribution ['hardy', 'intrepid', 'karmic']
[17:01] <xteejx> jpds, I think there's a problem in ubot4, is this your one?
[17:01] <bencrisford> =-|
[17:01] <micahg> xteejx: I think by default it looks up the current distro :)
[17:01] <xteejx> micahg, I specified jaunty first time
[17:02] <xteejx> !info gdb jaunty
[17:02] <ubot4> xteejx: jaunty is not a valid distribution ['hardy', 'intrepid', 'karmic']
[17:02] <xteejx> !jaunty
[17:02] <ubot4> Ubuntu 9.04 (Jaunty Jackalope) is the current release of Ubuntu.  Download: http://releases.ubuntu.com/9.04/ - Release Info: http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/releasenotes/904 - Please use !torrents
[17:02] <bencrisford> !info gdb intrepid
[17:02] <ubot4> bencrisford: gdb (source: gdb): The GNU Debugger. In component main, is optional. Version 6.8-3ubuntu2 (intrepid), package size 3133 kB, installed size 7376 kB
[17:02] <xteejx> bit of a hypocrite aren't you ubotu
[17:02] <xteejx> !info linu jaunty
[17:02] <ubot4> xteejx: jaunty is not a valid distribution ['hardy', 'intrepid', 'karmic']
[17:02] <xteejx> !info linux kaunty
[17:02] <ubot4> xteejx: kaunty is not a valid distribution ['hardy', 'intrepid', 'karmic']
[17:02] <xteejx> ffs
[17:02] <xteejx> !info linux jaunty
[17:02] <ubot4> xteejx: jaunty is not a valid distribution ['hardy', 'intrepid', 'karmic']
[17:03] <xteejx> !search jaunty
[17:03] <ubot4> Found: intel <reply>the intel driver in jaunty*, releasenotes, torrents-#kubuntu, jackalope@jaunty, releaseparty, hungover, shipit, jaunty, upgrade-#kubuntu, torrents
[17:03] <micahg> xteejx: I think ubot4 is broke :)
[17:03] <bencrisford> !info ubot4
[17:03] <ubot4> bencrisford: jaunty is not a valid distribution ['hardy', 'intrepid', 'karmic']
[17:03] <bencrisford> !info
[17:03] <xteejx> micahg, yup, sorry about the flooding :)
[17:03] <xteejx> !info needs something after it << like it's going to try here
[17:03] <ubot4> xteejx: something is not a valid distribution ['hardy', 'intrepid', 'karmic']
[17:04] <xteejx> !info gdb karmic
[17:04] <ubot4> xteejx: gdb (source: gdb): The GNU Debugger. In component main, is optional. Version 6.8-3ubuntu2 (karmic), package size 3133 kB, installed size 7376 kB
[17:04] <xteejx> no, thats the jaunty version..........
[17:04] <bencrisford> I know dogs that write better code than the crap in the gcompris package
[17:04] <bencrisford> its inconsistent
[17:05] <bencrisford> messy not nearly enough comments
[17:05] <bencrisford> hackers nightmare :'(
[17:05] <micahg> xteejx: karmic versions start with Jaunty versions
[17:05] <xteejx> no i'm, wrong on that one its same version in both J&K
[17:05] <xteejx> hehe i just checked on edge micah ;)
[18:23] <torkiano> hello, powertop utility report ~50 wake-ups per second in gnome-power-mananger, anyone with the same problem?
[18:40] <bencrisford> !info gcompris karmic
[18:40] <ubot4> bencrisford: gcompris (source: gcompris): Educational games for small children. In component main, is optional. Version 8.4.4-1.1ubuntu4 (karmic), package size 523 kB, installed size 1740 kB
[18:48] <bcurtiswx> mrooney: do you get the bug squad e-mails?
[18:48] <mrooney> bcurtiswx: I sure do
[18:48] <mrooney> why do you inquire
[18:48] <bcurtiswx> mrooney: what do you think of brian's idea?
[18:49] <mrooney> let me take a peek
[18:49] <bcurtiswx> ok
[18:51] <mrooney> bcurtiswx: oh yeah that could work, I was thinking something like that as well last night
[18:51] <mrooney> transition-regression-potential or something
[18:51] <mrooney> but using the normal one plus another, means the people searching regression-potential will still find it
[18:52] <bcurtiswx> bdmurray: whats the best way to document a tag that belongs with another tag?
[18:53] <bdmurray> bcurtiswx: I hadn't thought about that part yet
[18:53] <persia> I'd think it would be best documented in the documentation for the parent tag.  Something like:
[18:55] <persia> http://paste.ubuntu.com/186758/
[18:56] <franczen> Maybe there is someone who could help me out. I did a clean install of Jaunty. Since then, my laptop's wifi (Atheros AR2413) doesn't work. It sees all the available networks, it just simply does not connect. First thing I tried is to test my router. But with other boxes it worked as it should. Then I tried to disable the encryption, but still the same. Jaunty comes with ath5k driver by default. This apparently didn't work for
[18:56] <franczen>  me, so I enabled madwifi, which worked since Fiesty. The same issue. As third option I tried ndiswrapper (this also worked in all previous versions). The same simptome. After Googling around, I found that for some people it was a solution to completely remove network-manager, and install wicd instead. I have also compiled the latest compat-wireless. No success. I am totally stuck. Is there any way to triage this? I would do
[18:56] <franczen> anything to make it work (except give up and go back to Intrepid)
[18:57] <bcurtiswx> persia: sorry im still confused after that example... do you mean to put it in the description of the parent tag?
[18:58] <persia> bcurtiswx, Right, as one wouldn't expect to use it without the parent.
[18:58] <persia> So, in my example, one only tags something ''bar'' when it is already ''foo'': as a result it isn't helpful for bar to have a separate section: it's merely a subtype of foo.
[19:00] <bcurtiswx> persia: ok i see now :_
[19:00] <bcurtiswx> :)
[19:00] <xteejx> Anyone seen that Wolfram Alpha thing? well amazing! off topic i know just saw it, might be useful for some :) hehe
[19:01] <xteejx> ps hi everyone :)
[19:01] <bcurtiswx> xteejx: hi
[19:01] <xteejx> hey bcurtiswx
[19:03] <bcurtiswx> persia: 'regression-potential': A bug in the development release that was not present in the stable release.  'default-application': when regression-potential bug has an impact on an applications transition to a default application
[19:03] <bcurtiswx> have all of that on the same line seem ok bdmurray ?
[19:05] <persia> bcurtiswx, "'regression-potential': A bug in the development release that was not present in the stable release.  When this bug is a result of a transition in the default applications, also use the 'default-application' tag." scans better to me.
[19:05] <bdmurray> when a regression-potential bug is caused by changing the default application for a task
[19:05] <persia> +1 on "for a task"
[19:05] <mrooney> oh I sent an email, I didn't notice everyone was here!
[19:06] <bcurtiswx> ok, putting this all together... 'regression-potential': A bug in the development release that was not present in the stable release.  'default-application': when a regression-potential bug is caused by changing the default application for a task
[19:07] <persia> mrooney, I'd start with pedro for desktop bugs stuff, personally.
[19:07] <bcurtiswx> as long as that sounds good, I will make that change on the Bugs/Tags page
[19:07] <bdmurray> I liked persia's "When this is a result ..." bit
[19:07] <persia> bcurtiswx, Still doesn't scan well for me without the break before 'default-application'
[19:08] <persia> Otherwise it looks like the result of a formatting error.
[19:08] <bcurtiswx> maybe a new line underneath 'regression-potential' ?  what about changing its background color?
[19:11] <persia> I don't think color is sufficient.  Many people don't see color changes on the wiki.
[19:11] <persia> (e.g. text browser, speech browser, custom CSS, etc.)
[19:11] <bcurtiswx> yeah, good point
[19:12] <bcurtiswx> amazing how difficult this has become, lol
[19:23] <bcurtiswx> persia: im going to use your text for the Bugs/Tags page Thx :D
[19:23] <persia> bcurtiswx, Don't forget the "for a task" bit.
[19:24] <xteejx> bdmurray, Brian, there appears to be some confusion with the new guys, including myself, as to the procedure for apport-collect, I know for certain this is in Jaunty, but what about Hardy/Intrepid, is there any automated process for these releases? And also on the Wiki there doesn't seem to be any stock response for bug reports that are *really* old. I understand there is the "Old Untouched Bugs" section, but I would prefer if there was
[19:25] <bcurtiswx> persia: When this bug is a result of a transition in the default applications for a task, also use the 'default-application' tag.
[19:25] <persia> s/applications/application/
[19:25] <bcurtiswx> yeah - minus the s in applications
[19:31] <bdmurray> xteejx: wrt apport-collect it first became available in Jaunty so does not exist for Intrepid, however apport-collect itself can be found at http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/scripts/
[19:31] <xteejx> bdmurray: No chance of this being backported or something to those versions then?
[19:31] <bdmurray> xteejx: That'll require python-launchpadlib which is available in Intrepid but not Hardy
[19:32] <xteejx> Ahh, that's a shame :(
[19:34] <colonelqubit> What's the best way for me to get people interested in helping me triage and fix a bug?
[19:34] <bdmurray> xteejx: There are also ppa's of apport at https://edge.launchpad.net/~pitti/+archive/apport-retracer which might make things easier for Intrepid
[19:38] <bdmurray> xteejx: The other part of your question regarding old untouched bugs was cut off
[19:38] <kklimonda> bdmurray: some time ago someone has raised a question how to distinguish packages that are part of "server support" from those that are for desktop. As 6.06 is nearing end of support for desktops it would be nice to know how to separate them.
[19:38] <bdmurray> kklimonda: How might that be helpful?
[19:40] <kklimonda> bdmurray: probably to know when to mark bugs as invalid or something when they affect "desktop" packages.
[19:40] <colonelqubit> I've submitted a bug about hibernation and put all the information I can on it. I've done some testing and tried to get help via the forums and IRC, but had limited responses. Where can I find people interested in helping me fix this bug and improve Ubuntu? (https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/366264)
[19:41] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 366264 in linux "[Dell XPS m1530] Resume fails after hibernate/suspend" [Undecided,New]
[19:41] <bdmurray> Just because a release is no longer supported doesn't mean that the bug doesn't exist in the latest version of the package.
[19:42] <xteejx> bdmurray, sorry was afk... " on the Wiki there doesn't seem to be any stock response for bug reports that are *really* old. I understand there is the "Old Untouched Bugs" section, but I would prefer if there was a stock response also for the obsolete versions, basically saying "please upgrade" but in more detail."
[19:42] <kklimonda> bdmurray: so we should just ask a reporter to check if it exists on newer version?
[19:43] <xteejx> kklimonda, I would assume so unless we can reproduce it ourselves
[19:43] <bdmurray> kklimonda: I think that if there is sufficient information to test the bug, we as triagers should test it rather than asking the report to do it.
[19:43] <persia> xteejx, I'd be opposed to a stock response to the *really* old bugs.  Many of them are clearly still present (because they are hard).
[19:44] <xteejx> persia, I meant the ones that are package assigned but still in New status, I've found about 80-90% have been closeable
[19:44] <bdmurray> Generally speaking we are in, or should be in, a better position to test with the latest than the reporter.
[19:45] <bdmurray> If a bug report is complete, we should do the work rather than asking a reporter to do more.
[19:45] <persia> xteejx, I understand.  Some of those are probably my bugs.  Sometimes people poke me to retest some of them, and I always ignore it because it's obvious without testing.
[19:45] <xteejx> lol
[19:46] <persia> Well, some of these are bugs that will likely never be fixed, really, or that wait on other significant infrastructural changes.
[19:47] <xteejx> of course
[19:47] <persia> For instance, left-handed gaming keyboards just aren't going to work without a lot of manual fiddling on the part of the user, and this isn't fixable until linux, udev, X, etc. have the necessary infrastructure.
[19:47] <xteejx> afk for a bit guys
[19:50] <kklimonda> btw, did support end already for 6.06 on desktops? Or does it have to be announced somewhere?
[19:50] <kklimonda> have*
[19:50] <kklimonda> sigh..
[19:52] <cabrey> i think it ends this month
[19:52] <cabrey> three years
[19:52] <persia> kklimonda, It will be announced somewhere.  I wouldn't expect it for at least a couple more weeks.
[19:52] <persia> Mind you, I'm not sure "desktop" was ever well defined.  There's few apps that one really *can't* install on a server.
[19:52] <persia> As a result, I'm not sure we won't still get bugs, etc. for another couple years.
[19:54] <micahg> persia: i.e. FF/TB
[19:54] <persia> micahg, So, I set up this terminal server, and now my clients can't read mail or surf the web.
[19:54] <micahg> I was about to ask that
[19:55] <persia> Please support my server software :)
[19:55] <micahg> is it defined what is on server/desktop?
[19:56] <persia> Not that I've ever seen at a broad level.  The default set of applications for desktop vs. server is defined, but I don't know of any policy that covers non-default applications (which we certainly support in some sense)
[20:35] <stgraber> éwin 101
[20:35] <stgraber> oops
[20:36] <bencrisford> lol ? :p
[21:17] <seb128> mrooney: there?
[21:17] <mrooney> seb128: indeed!
[21:17] <seb128> mrooney: reading those bugsquad emails about default application change, I don't think that make sense to tag those this way
[21:18] <seb128> you want to tag rhythmbox-to-banshee for example
[21:18] <seb128> to have a way to list bugs revelant for this transition
[21:18] <seb128> you don't want all the transitions in the same category
[21:18] <BUGabundo> guud evening. hi seb128.
[21:18] <seb128> I don't care about gnomevfs to gvfs bugs when I look to the rhythmbox transition
[21:19] <mrooney> oh okay, I was thinking we could do that by searching on packages
[21:19] <seb128> hi BUGabundo
[21:19] <mrooney> seb128: but maybe a tag is better if some things cross packages
[21:19] <Notch-1> hi all, should anybody tell me something about https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/loop-aes-source/+bug/342902 ?
[21:19] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 342902 in loop-aes-source "Build error: ‘struct bio’ has no member named ‘bi_hw_front_size’" [Undecided,New]
[21:19] <seb128> will gnomevfs to gvfs would be cross components
[21:20] <mrooney> right
[21:20] <mrooney> anyway I have just been testing out empathy and banshee and wanted to know how I can help the desktop team with the transition and what to do with issues I notice
[21:20] <seb128> will -> well
[21:20] <seb128> how to help:
[21:20] <seb128> - test
[21:20] <seb128> - open bugs (upstream if possible)
[21:20] <seb128> - work on issues
[21:20] <mrooney> and surely in karmic there will be others so some sort of standard way to triage these issues would be nice
[21:20] <seb128> I don't expect those transitions to be totally smooth
[21:21] <seb128> but we need to try new technologies at some point, especially if next cycle is a lts
[21:21] <seb128> ie try this cycle and not during a lts cycle
[21:21] <mrooney> right, so having some sort of way to search on the application for the most important regressions to focus on seems useful, right
[21:21] <mrooney> ie via the tag that you suggested
[21:21] <seb128> those are not really in this category
[21:22] <seb128> we will not change what is installed on upgrade
[21:22] <seb128> so there is no user visible breakages
[21:22] <seb128> only new installs will get a new software
[21:22] <seb128> so it's really a technology change rather than new bugs in a currently used component
[21:22] <mrooney> well right but we still want to know what functional regressions those have and attempt to address them, right?
[21:22] <seb128> ie nobody should get somebody which was being used not working
[21:22] <seb128> right
[21:23] <seb128> but I would tag those has a "transition issue" rather than a breakage
[21:23] <mrooney> it seems like a good tool for upstreams to know what we care about most
[21:23] <persia> seb128, Well, we'll end up installing the new stuff also (because of new depends/recommends from ubuntu-desktop)
[21:23] <mrooney> right
[21:23] <seb128> persia: no?
[21:23] <seb128> persia: we will have banshee | rhythmbox
[21:23] <mrooney> especially since part of the reason for transitioning is a responsive upstream, we might as well help them :)
[21:23] <seb128> persia: rhythmbox users will keep using rhythmbox if they don't decide otheriwse
[21:23] <persia> seb128, Ah.
[21:24] <seb128> mrooney: that will be in the upgrade notes but users should take that decision
[21:24] <mrooney> yeah
[21:24] <seb128> anyway I would not categorize those bugs in the same way than thing which were working and got broken
[21:25] <BUGabundo> seb128: is 10.04 confirmed as an LTS? last Mark blog entrie put that in cause
[21:25] <seb128> usually breaking something which was working = blocker
[21:25] <seb128> but in this case that's a technology change
[21:25] <mrooney> yeah, it is definitely not a regression in the normal sense
[21:25] <seb128> ie you don't get lyrics out of the box but you get ipod syncing
[21:25] <mrooney> just a functional regression in the default for a task
[21:25] <seb128> BUGabundo: no, I didn't read mark's blog recently but that's 10.4 to 10.10 depending of debian
[21:26] <seb128> will be decided after next debconf which is coming
[21:26] <seb128> mrooney: we should rather tag "rhythmbox-to-banshee" for example
[21:26] <seb128> which would allow to tag those bugs before doing a transition
[21:26] <mrooney> seb128: so I think we are saying the same right? using tags to help following the transitions is good
[21:26] <seb128> we could start looking at some changes early and tag potential issues
[21:26] <seb128> right
[21:26] <mrooney> but the bugs don't more more importance necessarily, a "regression" could still be wishlist for example
[21:26] <seb128> I would just use tags specifics to a transition
[21:29] <mrooney> okay cool as I find things I'll report them if they don't exist and open upstream if the tasks there don't exist!
[21:29] <mrooney> and use rhythmbox-to-banshee or pidgin-to-empathy
[21:29] <BUGabundo> any where I can help, let me know
[21:30] <mrooney> BUGabundo: fix all the bugs :)
[21:30] <BUGabundo> I'll have an eye open for GVFS bugs and upstream them as good as I can
[21:30] <BUGabundo> mrooney: I don't do code
[21:30] <BUGabundo> but I'm a darn (good?) bug filler