pitti | Good morning | 07:11 |
---|---|---|
pitti | didrocks: hey! happy to be back home? :-) | 07:12 |
pitti | dobey: no :) | 07:12 |
=== asac_ is now known as asac | ||
Zdra | dobey: yes empathy have sound support | 09:02 |
Zdra | dobey: but ubuntu's sound theme is missing almost everything | 09:02 |
Zdra | afaik on jaunty the only sound we have is incoming-call | 09:03 |
Zdra | which is the most important IMO | 09:03 |
seb128 | I'm not a big fan of sound effects | 09:03 |
Zdra | me neither | 09:03 |
Zdra | seb128: about MSN file transfer, I don't think we can say pidgin support that | 09:04 |
Zdra | seb128: I never had more than 4b/s | 09:04 |
seb128 | no, it's very very slow | 09:04 |
Zdra | which is totally useless | 09:04 |
seb128 | some of the other points are good ones | 09:04 |
seb128 | ie sending message to people not there | 09:04 |
seb128 | or custom emoticons | 09:05 |
Zdra | yep | 09:05 |
Zdra | seb128: IMO it's much much much more important to have xmpp audio/video | 09:06 |
seb128 | is that working? | 09:07 |
Zdra | seb128: also, it depends if ubuntu want to promote good support for open protocols (jabber) or closed (msn) | 09:07 |
Laney | I bet there's a lot of people who use even the broken msn file xfer we have in Pidgin | 09:07 |
Zdra | seb128: yes it is working | 09:07 |
seb128 | cassidy said it was not working fine right now and that it will not working out of the box anyway because it requires codecs which can't be installed by default | 09:07 |
Zdra | seb128: did he said that? we support speex and theora | 09:08 |
Zdra | they are installed by default on ubuntu | 09:08 |
Zdra | it should even work from live CD | 09:08 |
Zdra | afaik | 09:08 |
Zdra | seb128: in fact we can use any codec supported by gstreamenr | 09:09 |
seb128 | "<cassidy>seb128: also note that for google video (interop with the web client), we need H264 (thanks Google...) which can't be shipped by default" | 09:09 |
Zdra | seb128: ah, that's for google's client | 09:10 |
Zdra | seb128: I meant for empathy<>empazthy | 09:10 |
seb128 | ah right, that works using theora | 09:10 |
Zdra | seb128: yep, google's web plugin for video is a problem, there is not much we can do | 09:11 |
Zdra | seb128: basically it's up to canonical to go to google's office and shout people until they add support for open codecs | 09:11 |
Zdra | seb128: but installing ubuntu-restricted-extra should be enough to get it working now | 09:12 |
seb128 | right | 09:12 |
seb128 | brb | 09:12 |
seb128 | Zdra: anyway having ubuntu to ubuntu video working will already be nice | 09:15 |
seb128 | and we want to promote free protocols but not in detriment of what users need | 09:16 |
seb128 | ie if other protocols are totally rubish compared to pidgin we will probably roll back before karmic | 09:16 |
Zdra | the problem with other protocols is nobody actually work on them | 09:17 |
seb128 | but we will get user feedback anyway before deciding so we know where we stand and what is still required if we are not ready to switch | 09:17 |
Zdra | we have some work done on MSN level, but not that much afaik | 09:17 |
Zdra | non free protocols have lots of user, but not a single developer, that's the problem | 09:18 |
seb128 | well apparently pidgin has people working on it | 09:19 |
seb128 | you don't get the feature for free by using libpidgin ? | 09:19 |
Zdra | seb128: for protocols, yes | 09:27 |
Zdra | libpurple | 09:27 |
seb128 | so things like sending message to people who are not there or custom emoticons should be working? | 09:27 |
Zdra | for MSN there is a dilemma because we have a dedicated CM for it | 09:27 |
seb128 | dedicated cm but nobody working on it you said? | 09:28 |
Zdra | istaz_: is working on it sometimes | 09:28 |
Zdra | seb128: and someone is working on audio/video support | 09:28 |
seb128 | ok, we might want to test msn using the cm and using libpurple | 09:28 |
seb128 | to see which one is working better | 09:29 |
Zdra | seb128: we made the choice in empathy to not show pidgin based msn if butterfly (the dedicated CM) is installed. But maybe we should reevaluate that | 09:30 |
seb128 | I will test both and let you know how they are working there | 09:30 |
istaz_ | Zdra: I think the guys of the papyon project have started to work on it | 09:31 |
chrisccoulson | hi pitti - i got some positive feedback on my fix for bug 361205, although the package is only in my PPA at the moment. do you want me to prepare a debdiff for jaunty-proposed later today? (I see a lot of other stuff got uploaded this morning) | 09:37 |
ubottu | Launchpad bug 361205 in tracker "Tracker uses notifications with actions when the index is corrupt" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/361205 | 09:37 |
pitti | chrisccoulson: proposed> I saw that, good job! Please prepare an upload and attach it, then I'll sponsor it | 09:38 |
chrisccoulson | thanks:) | 09:38 |
=== agateau_ is now known as agateau | ||
diverse_izzue | hi all. are there plans to replace scim by ibus for karmic or karmic+1? | 12:45 |
asac | ArneGoetje: ^^ | 12:57 |
* asac lunch time | 13:32 | |
=== sconklin-gone is now known as sconklin | ||
pitti | seb128: https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-karmic-gnome-3 whiteboard still has the discussion notes, and it seems they have much more information than the final wiki spec | 15:33 |
pitti | seb128: is that intended? can the whiteboard be flushed now? | 15:33 |
SiDi | Hey pitti . You're the person who coded the new notifications in gnome-power-manager for notify-osd, right ? | 15:34 |
pitti | SiDi: no, that was davidbarth | 15:34 |
SiDi | aw | 15:34 |
pitti | which reminds me that they are broken in Karmic | 15:35 |
SiDi | I saw your name in the changelogs :) | 15:35 |
SiDi | Yeh, well, i wrote a quick spec for notify-osd integration in Xubuntu, and there is a note about the power manager | 15:35 |
SiDi | What id like to get is : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Specifications/Karmic/NotifyOsd?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=notify-osd-powerinfo-example.png | 15:35 |
SiDi | I think i can do it for xfce4-power-manager but we're likely to stay on gnome-power-manager. But i really cant write code on this one with so many changes being done to it | 15:36 |
pitti | SiDi: yes, I sponsored the changes | 15:38 |
SiDi | Do you think it's possible to remove half the text and replace the bulb icon with a battery icon indicating the percentage left, in order to make the notification bubble easier to read ? | 15:42 |
pitti | SiDi: please discuss this with MacSlow or davidbarth | 15:43 |
SiDi | pitti, okey, willdo, thanks | 15:43 |
SiDi | shall i mail ubuntu-desktop, maybe ? | 15:43 |
pitti | SiDi: ayatana is probably better for design questions | 15:45 |
SiDi | Alright | 15:46 |
davidbarth | SiDi: hi, how can i help? | 15:54 |
SiDi | Hello davidbarth | 15:54 |
SiDi | Well, it's about notifications for battery state | 15:54 |
=== pochu_ is now known as pochu | ||
SiDi | I think they're a bit overloaded and could be optimised a little | 15:54 |
artir | meeting is in 6 minutes? | 15:54 |
SiDi | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Specifications/Karmic/NotifyOsd?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=notify-osd-power-current.png & https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Specifications/Karmic/NotifyOsd?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=notify-osd-powerinfo-example.png | 15:55 |
davidbarth | SiDi: ok, i see (slowly reading the log) | 15:55 |
SiDi | shall give you an idea of what i want | 15:55 |
davidbarth | SiDi: the mockup is interesting; the only thing we'd like to avoid is to display useless notifications; ie the user should only see them when it makes sense | 15:59 |
SiDi | davidbarth, thats for the XF86Power triggered notifications | 15:59 |
SiDi | It's just a little cleanup to make it easier to read, actually | 15:59 |
davidbarth | SiDi: ok, makes sense then, as they are the direct result of a user action | 16:00 |
SiDi | Sec, gonna upload a video with what i have in mind ;) | 16:00 |
davidbarth | SiDi: that's a good suggestion; would you like to comment on that in the Ayatana list | 16:00 |
SiDi | Sure | 16:00 |
davidbarth | SiDi: see https://launchpad.net/~ayatana | 16:00 |
SiDi | Im on it already | 16:00 |
SiDi | Im Steve Dodier (got a pending mail to send about user activity monitoring too ^^) | 16:01 |
davidbarth | SiDi: cool, be sure to get mpt's attention too, as he lead most of the design/usability aspects of these changes | 16:01 |
SiDi | Alright | 16:01 |
SiDi | as for the icons, i spoke with kwwii and mat_t and they seem ok to get them included, already | 16:02 |
seb128 | re | 16:12 |
seb128 | pitti: not sure how the whiteboard should be used, should it have the session notes or discussions? | 16:12 |
pitti | seb128: it should ideally only have status metadata | 16:12 |
pitti | seb128: I left the discussion there for now | 16:12 |
seb128 | pitti: I didn't feel that having a summary of the softwares, what they are doing etc was having a sense in the spec | 16:13 |
pitti | but if there's anythign important which is not covered by the wiki page,it should move into "BoF discussion" section of the wiki page IMHO | 16:13 |
pitti | unreleavant stuff can be removed, of course | 16:13 |
pitti | seb128: agreed | 16:13 |
seb128 | I've reviewed the notes and didn't add notes on purpose there is nothing really interesting there | 16:14 |
seb128 | I will clean the whiteboard and checking it's all correct | 16:14 |
seb128 | -ing | 16:14 |
pitti | seb128: cool, thanks | 16:14 |
seb128 | you're welcome | 16:15 |
seb128 | session restart brb | 16:15 |
seb128 | ok works correctly | 16:20 |
* seb128 does upgrade some components to karmic | 16:20 | |
seb128 | pitti: you mean the file in /etc? /usr/share is not under the admin's control | 16:21 |
seb128 | they are the same file | 16:21 |
pitti | ah, that mess, I remember | 16:22 |
pitti | seb128: can we fix the code to read /etc, clean up an unchanged /etc/ file in the postinst, and drop the symlink in /usr ? | 16:22 |
pitti | s/postinst/preinst/ of course | 16:22 |
seb128 | pitti: and for wine, file-roller taking over the mimetype and hijacking the action was one of the things the wine guys complained about in jaunty | 16:23 |
pitti | I guess so | 16:23 |
pitti | executables should be handled by binfmt-misc | 16:23 |
seb128 | right now zip-exe are opened in file-roller | 16:24 |
seb128 | I though that was normal mimetype association | 16:24 |
seb128 | but I don't know the details, will pick an easier example | 16:24 |
seb128 | we can probably do upgrade magic and cleaning for the defaults.list yes | 16:24 |
pitti | thanks | 16:25 |
seb128 | np, thank you for the quick review! | 16:25 |
seb128 | I'm still not clear about design and implementation difference too | 16:25 |
seb128 | but I guess I will never understand those | 16:25 |
pitti | don't worry too much about those | 16:25 |
pitti | it's "what" vs. "how" | 16:26 |
pitti | but sometimes that's too small a difference | 16:26 |
seb128 | how, ie "start gedit, code, profit"? ;-) | 16:26 |
pitti | Design: | 16:26 |
pitti | * Move keyboard handling from hal to udev | 16:27 |
pitti | Implementation: | 16:27 |
pitti | * Build hal with --disable-keymaps | 16:27 |
pitti | * create a migration script to convert hal fdi files to udev rules | 16:27 |
pitti | * ship new rules in udev-extras | 16:27 |
asac | killall | 16:27 |
pitti | * install udev-extras by default as part of ubuntu-standard | 16:27 |
pitti | seb128: that would be an example, as I understand and use it | 16:28 |
seb128 | I would tend to write the design as a spec summary | 16:28 |
pitti | asac: ... humans? | 16:28 |
seb128 | and use the implementation list for design | 16:28 |
seb128 | but gotcha, thanks ;-) | 16:28 |
asac | ;) | 16:28 |
pitti | * asac is now known as Bender | 16:28 |
asac | pitti: killall sshd ;) | 16:28 |
asac | is meeting now or in 1h ? | 16:29 |
pitti | asac: in one week and 1 h | 16:29 |
seb128 | asac: you should start reading emails ;-) | 16:30 |
asac | err. i read all emails afaik | 16:31 |
asac | guess it was send before allhands? | 16:31 |
artir | in the fridge it says that the meeting is today right now | 16:31 |
pitti | asac: check for a procmail rule * ^From: Rick Spencer\n/dev/null | 16:32 |
asac | lol | 16:32 |
pitti | asac: was sent yesterday or so | 16:32 |
asac | no. i am really sure rick goes in my inbox | 16:32 |
seb128 | asac: subject is "team meeting and specs" | 16:35 |
asac | yeah ... did he send with @canonical.com? | 16:36 |
seb128 | yes | 16:37 |
seb128 | asac: it has been sent to your canonical email | 16:37 |
seb128 | and coming from rick's canonical email | 16:37 |
asac | ok thanks. will check on that | 16:38 |
seb128 | asac: I can bounce you the mail if you want | 16:38 |
asac | seb128: yeah please do. i see it in my procmail log as being pushed into inbox ... but its not there :) | 16:40 |
asac | maybe i hit delete when processing this morning | 16:40 |
seb128 | asac: sent to your ubuntu email | 16:42 |
seb128 | ups canonical rather | 16:42 |
asac | thanks. got it | 16:47 |
asac | off getting some food stocks ... bbl | 17:03 |
pitti | 'nuff sponsoring for today, I'm off for the evening | 17:44 |
pitti | I might come back later, but need to run out for some errands | 17:44 |
* pitti waves | 17:44 | |
seb128 | pitti: see you later! | 17:46 |
=== proppy1 is now known as proppy | ||
asac | seb128: which ppa was the bluetooth-gnome thing in? u remember? | 18:22 |
asac | pitti: when you get back, could you approve https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-karmic-firefox-3.5 for karmic? | 18:32 |
asac | (not that it matters as i am about to start drafting) | 18:32 |
SiDi | * rdepends migration (to xulrunner 1.9.1 + webkit) | 18:34 |
SiDi | webkit ? | 18:34 |
asac | SiDi: yes. the more we can move to webkit the less we have a need to do backporting for xulrunner | 18:38 |
SiDi | well, that means webkit will be present in ubuntu's default image ? | 18:39 |
slomo | seb128: you probably want to sync libgdata from debian/unstable for totem 2.27 (once it's from NEW) | 18:58 |
dobey | totem uses google apps? | 19:07 |
crevette | for youtube video plugin | 19:07 |
seb128 | crevette: where did you put your bluetooth updates? in a ppa? which one? | 19:09 |
crevette | hey seb128 | 19:09 |
seb128 | slomo: ok thanks, has libgdata been approved for GNOME now? | 19:09 |
crevette | seb128: nome-bluetooth? | 19:10 |
seb128 | yes | 19:10 |
slomo | seb128: no idea, it's an optional dependency of youtube anyway | 19:11 |
seb128 | ok | 19:11 |
crevette | seb128: the bug is https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-bluetooth/+bug/372395 | 19:11 |
ubottu | Ubuntu bug 372395 in gnome-bluetooth "[karmic] Please sponsor gnome-bluetooth 2.27.5" [Wishlist,New] | 19:11 |
crevette | and there is a build in my ppa yes | 19:11 |
slomo | seb128: i mean, an optional dependency for totem, required to build the youtube plugin ;) so you really want this in ubuntu... sjoerd already complained to me that i uploaded totem 2.27 without the youtube plugin ;) | 19:12 |
seb128 | right | 19:12 |
seb128 | yet another depends | 19:12 |
seb128 | *shrug*, GNOME starts being really bloated | 19:12 |
slomo | well, before it used python-gdata | 19:12 |
slomo | you can demote that to universe maybe ;) | 19:12 |
Tm_T | seb128: starts being? | 19:12 |
slomo | but all those mini libraries are really annoying | 19:13 |
seb128 | Tm_T: go troll somewhere else will you? | 19:13 |
seb128 | Tm_T: that's not the right channel for that | 19:13 |
Tm_T | hmh, and again I did wrong wording | 19:13 |
Tm_T | what I mean is, it's hard to draw a line when something is bloat, so I was asking what is the thing you find now going over the line | 19:14 |
seb128 | there is no obvious over the line | 19:14 |
seb128 | but every second day they add a new library nowadays | 19:15 |
seb128 | where some other people are trying to reduce the number of libs | 19:15 |
crevette | seb128: by the way for gnome-bluetooth I tested the workflow with pulseaudio 0.9.15 and this is rallt working fine for me, I was able to connect and play music on my bluetooth audio gateway in few click | 19:15 |
seb128 | so the issue is not the number but the direction | 19:15 |
seb128 | asac: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-bluetooth/+bug/372395 <- that? | 19:16 |
ubottu | Ubuntu bug 372395 in gnome-bluetooth "[karmic] Please sponsor gnome-bluetooth 2.27.5" [Wishlist,New] | 19:16 |
Tm_T | seb128: roger roger, I often have to explain how DE:s are not bloated when compared to WM:s | 19:16 |
slomo | seb128: into which other library would you put libgdata btw? ;) | 19:17 |
Laney | seb128: I'm looking at it now that I got reminded | 19:17 |
Laney | fell off the radar | 19:17 |
Laney | crevette: sorry | 19:17 |
seb128 | slomo: it used to be in e-d-s | 19:17 |
crevette | Laney: hey not problem, I know you all have lots of things to do | 19:17 |
slomo | seb128: yes, good that it is outside eds now... eds brings in a too large dependency chain for your average google api using application ;) | 19:18 |
Laney | feel free to ping me if I forget again :O | 19:18 |
seb128 | slomo: will the binary was splitted in e-d-s obviously, ie no extra depends | 19:18 |
seb128 | will -> well | 19:18 |
seb128 | just longer build to rebuild this one | 19:18 |
seb128 | but I'm not sure have 15 sources instead of e-d-s will make anything easier | 19:18 |
slomo | seb128: well, you could use libgdata on windows but i doubt you'll be able to build eds on windows ;) but i don't think there's anything to argue about here, all those mini libraries only make things more complicated in general ;) | 19:19 |
seb128 | right | 19:20 |
slomo | seb128: do you know what's blocking totem 2.27 in ubuntu? | 19:22 |
seb128 | uds | 19:22 |
seb128 | ie just came back this weekend and yesterday was an holiday | 19:22 |
seb128 | I will have a look tomorrow | 19:22 |
asac | checking | 19:22 |
slomo | ok :) | 19:22 |
Laney | crevette: You should try to make your changelogs more verbose: where - what - why | 19:28 |
Laney | also did you package from scratch? I'm seeing a lot of changes from 0.11.0-0ubuntu4 that aren't in the changelog that I can see | 19:30 |
crevette | Laney: 0.11 gnome-bluettoth was a different project | 19:46 |
crevette | it used to be only a obex server | 19:46 |
crevette | now this feature is provide by gnome-user-sahre | 19:46 |
Laney | crevette: you still should have mentioned all the changes imo | 19:47 |
Laney | but it's not a blocker | 19:48 |
Laney | crevette: Dude you need to update the copyright file | 19:50 |
Laney | that is a blocker for me I'm afraid | 19:51 |
crevette | ah yeah I remember I didn't know what to do | 19:52 |
crevette | should I drop it and replace by a new one | 19:52 |
Laney | as long as you keep the copyright of the old debian packager | 19:52 |
Laney | unless you completely rewrote it | 19:52 |
Laney | it just need to be accurate and up to date | 19:53 |
Laney | following dep5 is probably a good idea | 19:53 |
Laney | ping me when it's done and I'll have another look | 19:53 |
crevette | dep5 ? | 19:54 |
Laney | http://dep.debian.net/deps/dep5/ | 19:55 |
crevette | Laney: the copyright references gnome-bluetooth tools & gnome-bluetooth library, but there is no tools (I don't know what it meant) and I'm not sure gnome-bluetooth provide a library. should I meantion it applied to previous version until 0.11 | 19:58 |
Laney | crevette: delete it and start again if that's easier | 20:00 |
crevette | nothing remains from gnome-bluetooth, but as I took bluez-gnome as reference I should perhaps reference this | 20:00 |
Laney | it pretty much just needs to list all files, their license and copyright holders | 20:00 |
Laney | reference any packagers who worked on this stuff before you | 20:00 |
Laney | in the copyright for debian/* | 20:01 |
seb128 | slomo: working on gtk 2.17 now? | 20:09 |
seb128 | slomo: some reason is http://git.gnome.org/cgit/gtk+/commit/?id=663bf3db0efde02f96e34bc08846356be3240f7f, see bug http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=578765 | 20:10 |
ubottu | Gnome bug 578765 in docs "no rule to make manpages" [Normal,Unconfirmed] | 20:10 |
crevette | Laney: thanks for the review, sorry to waste your time :/ | 20:11 |
Laney | it's not a waste, this is what the process is for | 20:12 |
crevette | I could have been more efficient | 20:12 |
crevette | let's focus on this | 20:12 |
slomo | seb128: no 2.16.2, but thanks :) | 20:25 |
seb128 | slomo: ok, 2.17 has the same issue | 20:25 |
huats | seb128: hello ! | 20:26 |
huats | How are you ? | 20:26 |
seb128 | hey huats! | 20:27 |
huats | safe trip back ? | 20:27 |
seb128 | huats: got a cold but otherwise good, you? | 20:27 |
huats | good too :) | 20:27 |
seb128 | yes, trip was just fine, I was home for lunch on saturday | 20:27 |
huats | great :) | 20:27 |
huats | I haven't found you at the karaoke :( | 20:27 |
seb128 | I was not there | 20:29 |
seb128 | how was it? | 20:29 |
huats | I know ! | 20:29 |
huats | that is what I meant ! | 20:29 |
huats | it was nice | 20:30 |
huats | I don't even had the chance to say you good bye :( | 20:30 |
seb128 | how do you know, I could have been there but in the middle of all those people not easy to find for example! | 20:30 |
huats | haven't you seen some pics/videos ? | 20:30 |
seb128 | no, I didn't do too much computer during the weekend | 20:30 |
huats | hehe | 20:31 |
seb128 | and I've been busy catching up on email, etc today | 20:31 |
huats | I can imagine :) | 20:31 |
seb128 | so I didn't look for photos online | 20:31 |
seb128 | we will see each other at next uds probably so that's ok ;-) | 20:31 |
huats | I have made a video just for you, of robert singing ;) | 20:31 |
seb128 | heh ;-) | 20:32 |
huats | (since I knew you weren't there I wanted to you can see your padawan :P) | 20:32 |
seb128 | lol | 20:32 |
huats | I haven't post it yet | 20:32 |
huats | I'll let you know once I have | 20:32 |
seb128 | I had diner with people having ubuntuflu and not wanting to go for party, that was perhaps a mistake since I got a cold now | 20:32 |
seb128 | ok, cool | 20:32 |
huats | héhé | 20:33 |
huats | no big deal :) | 20:33 |
seb128 | btw did you start working on some update? | 20:34 |
seb128 | I was not sure and did some so sorry if I hijacked yours or something | 20:35 |
huats | oh ok | 20:35 |
huats | I have started a bit on evince | 20:35 |
huats | but not a lot | 20:35 |
huats | did you ? | 20:35 |
seb128 | ok, I did this one | 20:36 |
huats | ok | 20:36 |
seb128 | I looked for opened bugs first but there was none | 20:36 |
seb128 | we will use bugs for todolists soon I expect | 20:36 |
Laney | is there a list? | 20:36 |
huats | so just get me another one ? | 20:36 |
huats | seb128: ok great | 20:36 |
seb128 | huats: bug-buddy | 20:36 |
huats | ok | 20:36 |
seb128 | you can merge on debian and update to 2.27 | 20:36 |
huats | ok | 20:37 |
huats | I'll do that | 20:37 |
seb128 | Laney: no right now and I think we are mostly updatetoday right now | 20:37 |
seb128 | huats: cool | 20:37 |
Laney | k | 20:37 |
seb128 | Laney: there is quite some merges and sponsoring to do though | 20:37 |
Laney | yeah i looked at the queue | 20:37 |
Laney | i'll take some when i can | 20:38 |
crevette | Laney: about the changelog do you want I strip all uptream changes ? | 20:39 |
Laney | no I like having those there | 20:39 |
Laney | I think you should explain *your* changes better | 20:39 |
crevette | okay | 20:39 |
Laney | I used interdiff -z -p1 old_version_of_gnome_bluetooth.diff.gz your_version.diff.gz to get the diff to review btw | 20:39 |
Laney | so that's what I'll look at | 20:39 |
Laney | you should make everything in there as easy to understand as possible ;) | 20:40 |
huats | seb128: actually didrocks already did the merge I think :) | 20:40 |
Laney | sponsors queue! | 20:40 |
Laney | its pretty epic right now | 20:40 |
crevette | :) | 20:42 |
SiDi | hey YokoZar | 21:34 |
YokoZar | hey SiDi | 21:34 |
SiDi | They didnt record your plenary talk but for sure someone recorded you at karaoke :] | 21:34 |
SiDi | I have the feeling i went back home too early :( | 21:35 |
YokoZar | SiDi: I heard the plenary talks are on a hard disk on a plane at the moment | 21:36 |
YokoZar | SiDi: the day that Jorge forgot to hit the record button was either Wednesday or Thursday I think | 21:36 |
SiDi | ahah :D nice | 21:36 |
SiDi | btw kudos on daring singing alone @ karaoke :D | 21:37 |
YokoZar | I did it 3 times ;) | 21:37 |
SiDi | I didnt sing at all :P | 21:38 |
SiDi | That'll be for the next UDS | 21:38 |
* mgunes is about to take the liberty to add a "hundredpapercuts" task for bug #382626 | 21:47 | |
ubottu | Launchpad bug 382626 in nautilus "Nautilus location bar toggle icon implies unrelated function" [Low,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/382626 | 21:47 |
seb128 | mgunes: you can probably do that or ping the dxteam about it | 21:52 |
seb128 | mgunes: btw short bug descriptions are usually appreciated, verbose one might seem nice but are extra work to read and understand for no real win | 21:53 |
seb128 | ie you could describe this bug in one line rather than one screen | 21:53 |
mgunes | seb128, I've done the latter earlier in the day, but there's been no response; the reason I'm going ahead with it this time is that everyone was in agreement at the session. | 21:54 |
seb128 | I would let those guys bother about those bugs, there is enough bugs to work on already | 21:54 |
seb128 | lool: do you still need this gnome-keyring arm workaround? (ie building with -O0 to avoid a lock issue) | 21:56 |
seb128 | that seems to be the only ubuntu diff we still have in karmic | 21:56 |
mgunes | seb128, point taken, and I normally try to be concise, but I do think the verbosity is justified here. | 21:58 |
seb128 | well then do a short description and then an user story if you think it adds a value | 21:58 |
seb128 | but that could be only me | 21:58 |
seb128 | I get so many bugs that I tend to skip those have over 6 lines of text | 21:59 |
seb128 | have -> having | 21:59 |
seb128 | ie "the notepad icon doesn't represent the action in a clear way" is enough | 22:00 |
seb128 | I don't think upstream picked this one because they think it's good anyway | 22:00 |
seb128 | there is probably no good icon for this action, the bug is not really useful without a suggestion of what we should be using instead | 22:01 |
mgunes | seb128, I was fully aware that this was known, and would not take any real triage effort, hence the verbosity. | 22:01 |
seb128 | alright | 22:02 |
dobey | yeah, the gtk+ edit icon is pretty pointless | 22:02 |
dobey | and "edit" is a bit too abstract to really have any useful metaphor | 22:02 |
seb128 | I was just saying that you don't need to bother writing a good user story | 22:02 |
seb128 | usually it makes the submitter spend quite some time on the bug and not benefit the triagers | 22:02 |
seb128 | but you decide how you spent your efforts ;-) | 22:02 |
dobey | i really don't see why we have a button to toggle between editable ui and list of buttons anyway | 22:03 |
dobey | it should just always be editable | 22:03 |
mgunes | seb128, I don't know if you actually read past the first two sentences, but I would argue that it's somewhat beyond "user story" and closer to "technical substantiation by citation" :) | 22:04 |
seb128 | because a text entry is confusing to users | 22:04 |
dobey | toggling between buttons and a text entry is horrible | 22:04 |
seb128 | ie they don't know what to enter | 22:04 |
seb128 | so they want buttons | 22:04 |
dobey | i didn't say it should be a GtkEntry always :) | 22:04 |
seb128 | and powerusers want somewhere they can type the path directly | 22:04 |
dobey | well, seth wanted buttons | 22:04 |
dobey | because osx had buttons | 22:05 |
dobey | and then hackers wanted an entry so they could type stuff | 22:05 |
dobey | and now we have the crappy toggle thing | 22:05 |
mgunes | it looks to me like a typical case of bypassing a real design decision by providing an "option to switch between things" | 22:05 |
seb128 | mgunes: no I didn't, see my comment about over 6 lines of description ;-) | 22:05 |
mgunes | seb128, I knew that ;) | 22:05 |
dobey | mgunes: yes, there was no real design behind it | 22:06 |
seb128 | in any case the design team is welcome to suggest a better icon or way | 22:06 |
seb128 | knowing that we want something easy to use for standard users and a way to enter a path directly | 22:07 |
mgunes | seb128: I kind of did, but it took, like, two paragraphs :) | 22:07 |
dobey | i'm all for having a better gtk-edit icon (because it's used elsewhere as well), and a better way to use the path in the file chooser | 22:07 |
dobey | "There's no such thing as a standard user, and if there were, it wouldn't be you." | 22:09 |
dobey | :) | 22:09 |
seb128 | mgunes: right, I read the full bug description now | 22:10 |
crevette | Laney: ah, In the meantime, debian had a gnome-bluetooth package so I think we can now just sync it from there | 22:11 |
mgunes | seb128, thanks :) See, a toggle button looks essentially out of place, which is where the problem only begins. | 22:11 |
seb128 | mgunes: usually I tend to describe the bug in the description and then add a comment to suggest changes but everyone has its own workflow I guess ;-) | 22:11 |
Laney | crevette: wow thats recent | 22:11 |
mgunes | seb128, right, probably a better way. | 22:11 |
crevette | yeah | 22:11 |
Laney | crevette: you could help maintain it in that team :) | 22:12 |
seb128 | mgunes: the issue is that making clear icons for those actions is not trivial | 22:12 |
Laney | i'm sure some of your packaging could be of use to them | 22:12 |
crevette | sure, now I reviewed all patches | 22:12 |
crevette | Laney: we have an additional patch for notification that I jus ported | 22:12 |
Laney | cool | 22:12 |
crevette | and too bad, I find the package after writing a more verbose changelog :/ | 22:13 |
crevette | Laney: is it acceptable to sync the package and then divert it by adding our patch? | 22:13 |
mgunes | seb128, I know, but the ambiguity of the icon is not the only problem. Even with a better icon, the "pressed vs. non-pressed" state of a lonely toggle button is not a good way to convey mode information and lead people to switch modes in this case. | 22:13 |
Laney | crevette: that's called a merge | 22:13 |
seb128 | mgunes: right | 22:14 |
mgunes | hence the point the HIG makes about it. | 22:14 |
crevette | hmm time to sleep now | 22:14 |
crevette | I still have a bug to submit to debian | 22:15 |
crevette | good night and thanks so much for help | 22:15 |
=== sconklin is now known as sconklin-afk | ||
=== Mez_ is now known as Mez |
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