[12:59]  * pleia2 pats ubuntulog 
[12:59] <pleia2> yay :)
[13:02] <pleia2> (I opened a ticket to get it a while ago)
[13:22] <Yassine_Tn> I have Ubuntu desktop edition, and I need to run an OS without a graphical Interface (PC too old). Can I install Ubuntu Desktop edition and use it like the server edition ?
[17:15] <pleia2> \o/
[17:16] <jpds> I have done some sysadmin pokage.
[17:16] <doctormo> o/
[17:17] <pleia2> yeah, spads said he and elmo were working on it when I /msged
[17:17] <jpds> Should be coming back now.
[17:18] <doctormo> Hey jpds, how are you? I'm back in Boston today :-)
[17:18] <jpds> doctormo: Not too bad, thanks.
[21:49] <doctormo> hmm, no sign of Vantrax today, just when we need a talk :-D
[21:50] <doctormo> pleia2: what was the result of the CC meeting?
[21:50] <pleia2> doctormo: yesterday? green light from CC :)
[21:50] <doctormo> great :-)
[21:50] <pleia2> they like the project, think we're on the right track
[21:51] <doctormo> Now we just gotta sort out this CC-NC problem, agh.
[21:51] <pleia2> they got us our lists.ubuntu.com mailing list and the ubuntulog bot for the channel
[21:51]  * pleia2 nods
[21:51] <pleia2> that came up at the meeting too, but we moved along so not to bog down the meeting too much
[21:51] <pleia2> greg-g is available to help out when we're ready to talk
[21:53] <doctormo> pleia2: What was the general feeling of the Community Council about it?
[21:54] <doctormo> Or should I say, what was their preference.
[21:54] <pleia2> doctormo: very positive
[21:54] <pleia2> and they were happy we came to present it to them, wished more teams would
[21:54] <doctormo> pleia2: They approve strongly of the Non-Commercial clause? why?
[21:54] <pleia2> ooh, that specifically?
[21:54] <pleia2> no, NC got bogged down in the same thing as it always does, I think they don't want NC
[21:55] <pleia2> but there is the whole issue with the canonical training materials being NC
[21:55] <doctormo> Ah ok, that makes more sense.
[21:55] <doctormo> Yes, we might have to be strict with that, I don't want deritivitive works that are all useless to the wider community.
[21:55] <pleia2> agreed
[21:57] <pleia2> there was also dicussion of the unclear licensing of the ubuntu wiki
[21:57] <doctormo> That's not a good sign
[21:57] <pleia2> I believe the CC is going to handle that and let us know
[21:58] <doctormo> OK, well I don't believe they would add restrictive terms, so it's probably just a matter of publicity.
[22:03]  * pleia2 nods
[22:55] <Vantrax> Ello chums
[23:08] <Vantrax> its so quiet today
[23:08] <doctormo> Vantrax: Hi, not quiet, you weren't here when I was chatting before :-)
[23:09] <Vantrax> ahh
[23:09]  * Vantrax does the happy dance
[23:09] <Vantrax> we have a proper mailing list
[23:10] <doctormo> [11:14] <doctormo> We need to talk because NC is going to be poisonous for these learning materials and I'd like to be working on something open source, NC isn't even allowed by launchpad.
[23:10] <doctormo> [11:14] <doctormo> I was trying to explain before why we should be specifically exluding sources that are too restrictive. including the canonical desktop training manual if they can't relisence.
[23:11] <Vantrax> ahh
[23:11] <Vantrax> this is a problem
[23:11] <doctormo> indeed it is
[23:11] <Vantrax> the CC is looking at this problem for the wiki at the moment too
[23:12] <doctormo> I hope they fall on the none NC side too, NC is far too crazy and costly to manage and even from a technical stand point it's a mess.
[23:12] <Vantrax> the big problem is the desktop training course is the perfect workbook for us, just in a bad format
[23:12] <Vantrax> doctormo: we already have NC stuff, look at the moodle training courses
[23:13] <doctormo> Vantrax: I'm calling on us to be firm on this, it's important for us to work in Open Source terms and the Desktop Training manual isn't.
[23:13] <Vantrax> what we produce should be BY-SA
[23:13] <doctormo> Vantrax: Why do we have NC stuff already?
[23:13] <doctormo> I thought we'd talked about this?
[23:13] <Vantrax> what we reuse is a little harder because it measn we have to generate more materials
[23:14] <Vantrax> the how to moodle on the wiki right now is produced by a highschool as by-nc-sa
[23:14] <doctormo> Vantrax: I agree, it is harder
[23:14] <doctormo> But it's very important
[23:14] <doctormo> If we can't get a relicense on the highschool course, then that's going to be a sticking point.
[23:16] <pleia2> can we have different courses with different licenses depending on the source material?
[23:17] <pleia2> I think having anything NC is unfortunate, and we will put warnings on it, but I think it might be a mistake to toss out those resources entirely
[23:18] <doctormo> pleia2: Some of what we need to do may be education of upstream, most of the time NC is completly inapropriate and is just used because of fear.
[23:19] <pleia2> doctormo: but if they won't budge (I don't think Canonical will budge on their training material), should we give up on using it at all?
[23:19] <doctormo> pleia2: yes
[23:19] <pleia2> I think as a general policy for the team it's good, but exceptions should be considered
[23:20] <doctormo> It's unfortunate, but NC can be quite nasty, do we really want to work of holding NC works in a special pen so they don't start leaching into other materials?
[23:20] <pleia2> fair point, probably not
[23:21] <Vantrax> doctormo: +1
[23:21] <Vantrax> this is why I like having you as part of this board
[23:21] <doctormo> Vantrax: Your very own richard stallman... with better grooming habbits ;-)
[23:22] <Vantrax> I think exceptions will be made, its a practical reality, but we need to be very careful about how its contained
[23:22] <pleia2> Vantrax: +1
[23:22] <Vantrax> the how to moodle is a great example, it s a complete self contained course clearly marked
[23:22] <doctormo> Not that I wan't to be a stick in the mud, I'm just concerned with future growth and consistancy.
[23:23] <Vantrax> doctormo: this is part of what needs to be sorted out by us, how the project will be implemented, grow, and be managed
[23:23] <doctormo> Vantrax: I may be able to make an exception to the "how to moodle" with these additions: that it is very clearly marked and that we make a point of asking for a re-license.
[23:23] <doctormo> We can't copy and paste from or use the how to moodle as a course template, for instance.
[23:23] <Vantrax> that is fair enough, we can ask the same of dinda as well, but its unlikely to be granted
[23:24] <Vantrax> no we cant, cp is ment to be working on a template
[23:24] <pleia2> perhaps we can put together some kind of draft letter for these requests, outlining why NC is tricky?
[23:25] <Vantrax> yes
[23:25] <doctormo> That would be great.
[23:25] <Vantrax> chief of which is NC is not defined
[23:25] <doctormo> These people don't often expect to earn money from relicensing, they're just being human, fear.
[23:26] <Vantrax> doctormo: can you work with gregg to draft that
[23:26] <doctormo> Although our main point is "We're open source, NC isn't"
[23:26] <Vantrax> you seem to be good with the putting words together thingy
[23:26] <doctormo> Aye
[23:26] <Vantrax> and can you throw that up on the tasks page too
[23:28] <pleia2> which reminds me, these past couple weeks I've been following up with teams (it's been hard with UDS), talking to effie about loco teams stuff
[23:29] <pleia2> mostly the teams are now pondering Classroom things until we can get them hooked up with Moodle, so essentially they're waiting on us
[23:31] <doctormo> Done
[23:38] <bodhi_zazen> OMG a conversation in this channel :)
[23:39] <doctormo> bodhi_zazen: conversion?
[23:43] <bodhi_zazen> sweet pleia2 :)
[23:53] <Vantrax> i think we should take the current server link off the wiki page
[23:54] <pleia2> why?
[23:54] <Vantrax> we dont want people not involved going to it untill the theme is there at the very least
[23:54] <Vantrax> it looks like crap atm >.<
[23:54] <Vantrax> Id rather not have it there, then have people look at it before we make it pretty
[23:55] <Vantrax> especially considering the wiki page will be linked in my post to planet.
[23:55] <Vantrax> and to the news team/fridge
[23:55] <pleia2> I dunno, I think transparency in this project is important, I'd rather not hide things from potential contributors
[23:56] <pleia2> maybe someone who reads it will say "I am an expert moodle themer, can I help? :)
[23:56] <Vantrax> that is true, but contributors will come to the irc channel
[23:57] <Vantrax> or send a mail to the list
[23:57] <Vantrax> at the same time other people could go see it and think the project is a joke because the server doesnt look like much (YET)
[23:57] <pleia2> I would really rather not make it hard for people to see our resources or contribute, no matter what the state they're in
[23:57] <Vantrax> im going to be spending a bit of time on dev for the theme this weekend
[23:58] <Vantrax> hrm, maybe ill just delay the announcment till I finish the theme
[23:58] <Vantrax> either way i need to be able to upload the theme to the test site bodhi_zazen
[23:59] <Vantrax> oh, were being logged now?
[23:59]  * Vantrax points to ubuntulog
[23:59] <bodhi_zazen> Vantrax: do you have a ssh key ?
[23:59] <bodhi_zazen> where does your theme go exactly ?