[13:40] <gnomefreak> does PPA use the same buildds that ubuntu archives use?
[13:41] <persia> gnomefreak, I think not from https://launchpad.net/builders/ but you can get a more detailed answer in #launchpad.
[13:41] <gnomefreak> damn wwring channel
[13:41] <gnomefreak> thanks persia
[15:26] <gavin___> hi, is this the place to complain about code of conduct on planetubuntu?
[15:27] <cody-somerville> gavin___, Probably not.
[15:27] <cody-somerville> gavin___, Whats your issue?
[15:28] <gavin___> Guy Van Sanden's recent blog posts attacking mono have all been aimed at hurting the reputation of mono and it's developers
[15:28] <gavin___> his most recent claims that mono developers are attacking him
[15:28] <gavin___> but in reality, it's him attacking mono devs
[15:28] <gavin___> I believe this goes against your code of conduct
[15:28] <gavin___> I ask that some authority speak with him and ask that he stop
[15:29] <gavin___> or, if worst comes to worst, remove him from the rss feed
[15:29] <cody-somerville> gavin___, It doesn't appear that he is doing anything wrong.
[15:29] <gavin___> he is making false accusations
[15:29] <gavin___> that is pretty uncool
[15:30] <cody-somerville> I don't see where he is making false accusations.
[15:30] <gavin___> "each and every time the mono camp has responded with screaming and insults"
[15:30] <gavin___> that is a bold faced lie
[15:31] <gavin___> the "mono camp" has never responded to him
[15:31] <cody-somerville> This sounds like a personal issue.
[15:31] <cody-somerville> If you're not happy with something he has said, I would recommend you approach himself yourself via e-mail or some other means and express your opinion.
[15:32] <gavin___> I doubt he would be willing to discuss this rationally, it's obvious from his posts that he is out to hurt our reputations
[15:33] <gavin___> he wants mono out of ubuntu and he has made it abundantly clear that he is willing to stoop to any level to hurt mono in any way that he can
[15:34] <gavin___> I am not opposed to rational debate, but these attacks are not rational
[15:35] <Hobbsee> that would be something you'd need to take up with the CC, to get him removed from planet, but it woudl be advised you take it up with him first.
[15:35] <gavin___> all I'm asking is that someone ask him to tone it down/stop/whatever.
[15:35] <gavin___> I'm not necessarily asking that he get removed from the planet
[15:35]  * elky checks the meeting timetable...
[15:35] <gavin___> I'm sure he's there because he's a contributor
[15:35] <cody-somerville> gavin___, That someone would need to be you.
[15:36] <gavin___> cody: I would if I suspected there was any chance at all that he'd even listen to me
[15:37]  * ziroday remembers something about you don't know if you don't try
[15:39] <gavin___> I've tried talking sense to people like him in the past, and all it got me was personal attacks
[15:40] <cody-somerville> gavin___, People "like" him?
[15:40] <gavin___> yea, the Roy Schestowitz Brigade
[15:40] <cody-somerville> gavin___, If I had to hazard a guess, I'd say the issue isn't one sided.
[15:41] <gavin___> I have not made any eprsonal attacks nor have I plastered anything across the internet
[15:42] <gavin___> so while our opinions do differ, I have not tried to ruin his projects reputations or anything else
[15:42]  * popey tires of the mono argument :(
[15:42] <gavin___> in any case, I respect your suggestions but I think if that's all you can offer I'll just continue ignoring the trolls
[15:43] <gavin___> and hope they eventually go away
[15:43] <gavin___> popey: as do I :(
[15:43] <popey> gavin___: I'd honestly bring this up with the cc
[15:43] <popey> get clarification
[15:43] <gavin___> how do I contact the cc?
[15:43] <popey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncil
[15:44] <popey> either mail them direct, or https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda add an item for the next meeting, and attend and put your case
[15:44] <gavin___> oh, heh, that's the page that sent me here :p
[15:44] <cody-somerville> I think you have the wrong attitude gavin___. Disagreeing with you doesn't make someone a troll.
[15:44] <gavin___> cody: no, you misunderstand me
[15:44] <gavin___> disagreeing is fine
[15:44] <gavin___> badmouthing mono over misinformation and then saying the mono project devs/contribs are attacking him is just an outright lie
[15:45] <gavin___> aimed at hurting our reputations
[15:45] <gavin___> this is unfair
[15:45] <gavin___> and that is what I'm here about, not a disagreement of opinion
[15:45] <popey> here isnt the right place I'm afraid gavin___
[15:45] <james_w> well, it isn't when there isn't a CC meeting in progress at least
[15:45] <popey> here is where we have meetings, nothing much else happens outside those hours, and no real note will be taken of what you've said here now because a meeting isnt in progress
[15:46] <gavin___> popey, nod, understood - I misunderstood the wiki page (which I thought said to come here)
[15:46] <popey> gavin___: easily done
[15:46] <popey> james_w: too quick for me ;)
[15:46] <james_w> gavin___: I didn't read the posts as saying the "mono project devs/contribs are attacking him"
[15:46] <cody-somerville> Neither did I
[15:47] <gavin___> james_w, well, if he didn't mean us, then I don't know who he's talking about
[15:47] <james_w> for instance he said "the Mono camp"
[15:47] <james_w> anyone "pro-mono", whether you want them on your side or not
[15:47] <gavin___> who does that refer to if not us?
[15:48] <gavin___> ok, well, then he needs to change his language because it seems to me an attempt to attack Mono's reputation
[15:49] <james_w> in a similar vein to the way you just said "like" Roy, even though someone can have an unfavourable opinion of mono and still think that particular project is outrageous
[15:49] <popey> unfortunately people feel very passionately about this
[15:50] <gavin___> james_w, touche
[15:50] <james_w> I agree that he could be more clear that he is being attacked by just some crazy internet people who argue for mono, rather than by the mono project and its useful contributors
[15:50] <cody-somerville> gavin___, I don't think he needs to change his language. He disagrees/has concerns with the licensing of the Mono technology. He is welcome to express that regardless if it puts Mono in a poor light or not.
[15:50] <james_w> but it's not just mono that suffers from that particular issue
[15:51] <cody-somerville> gavin___, Ubuntu is a great OS but it has its dark spots too. If someone were to choose to discuss them, I couldn't claim they were trying to ruin the reputation of Ubuntu if they were simply being truthful.
[15:51] <gavin___> cody-somerville, note that I am not here about the licensing concerns, but about his language
[15:52] <gavin___> and his approach (which is very flametastic)
[15:52] <popey> arguably it's just opinionated
[15:52] <cody-somerville> gavin___, Its inflaming for you because *you* disagree with his opinion.
[15:52] <gavin___> not at all
[15:53] <gavin___> for example, there was an article a while back by I think ti was Bruce Byfield, who criticized Mono's licensing
[15:53] <gavin___> but did it in such as it was not offending
[15:53] <gavin___> nor flamey
[15:54] <bazhang> is this on topic here?
[15:54] <cody-somerville> Absolutely.
[15:54] <bazhang> no scheduled meeting even
[15:55] <cody-somerville> That isn't a prerequisite to have a discussion in this channel when it isn't being used by a party that has scheduled it
[15:56] <cody-somerville> gavin___, I think thats dangerous grounds to try and get into - moderating content based on the possibility it might upset someone.
[15:56] <gavin___> if this was the first flametastic post by him, I wouldn't be here :)
[15:56] <gavin___> but it's the 4th or 5th
[15:56] <cody-somerville> gavin___, I think you just need to get some thicker skin. :)
[15:56] <cody-somerville> gavin___, Stop reading his posts if need be
[15:57] <gavin___> in any case, like you or james stated, perhaps I am reading too much into it because I am a mono contributor
[15:57] <elky> this is not a productive discussion, and would be better served by an email to the Community Council.
[15:57] <popey> gavin___: or write opposing coherent blog posts?
[15:57] <pitti> hello
[15:57] <cody-somerville> Good idea popey
[15:57] <heno> hey
[15:57] <gavin___> popey: I'm not an ubuntu contributor and even if I were, I'd rather not turn planet ubuntu into a flamefest
[15:58] <james_w> gavin___: there's a scheduled meeting starting now, I suggest that you email the CC if you still feel you want to raise the issue
[15:58] <gavin___> ok, well thanks for your time
[15:58] <popey> gavin___: "Community Council List" <community-council@lists.ubuntu.com>,
[15:58] <cody-somerville> gavin___, Don't let people get to you if you think what you're doing is right ;)
[15:58] <gavin___> cody: thanks :)
[15:59]  * slangasek waves
[16:01]  * rickspencer3 wave
[16:02]  * robbiew gives a fist-to-chest pound :P
[16:02] <slangasek> pgraner, pitti, Riddell, heno, sbeattie, Hobbsee, ScottK: ping
[16:02]  * pitti says "hello" again
[16:02] <cjwatson> hi
[16:02] <pgraner> slangasek: here
[16:03] <heno> hi slangasek
[16:03] <slangasek> pitti: oh, yes - sorry, lost you amid another meeting :)
[16:04] <slangasek> ok, as this was short notice anyway, let's not idle too long waiting for others to show up; if folks aren't here, we'll fill in the missing pieces later
[16:04] <Riddell> hello
[16:05] <slangasek> #startmeeting
[16:05] <MootBot> Meeting started at 10:05. The chair is slangasek.
[16:05] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[16:05] <slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2009-06-05 agenda
[16:05] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2009-06-05 agenda
[16:05] <slangasek> [TOPIC] QA team
[16:05] <MootBot> New Topic:  QA team
[16:06] <heno> Hi
[16:06] <heno> We have laid out our Karmic road map from the UDS talks
[16:06] <heno> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/RoadMap
[16:06] <slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/RoadMap
[16:06] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/RoadMap
[16:07] <slangasek> great :)
[16:07] <heno> Some cert test are running http://people.ubuntu.com/~fader/hw-testing/current
[16:07] <heno> but I don't have a detailed report as fader is on leave today
[16:07] <slangasek> [LINK] http://people.ubuntu.com/~fader/hw-testing/current cert tests for karmic
[16:07] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.ubuntu.com/~fader/hw-testing/current cert tests for karmic
[16:08] <heno> sbeattie: can you comment on the state of regressions?
[16:08] <slangasek> that they're happening at all this early is welcome news, IMHO
[16:08] <heno> right, we'll just keep the running from here on is the plan
[16:08] <slangasek> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=regression-potential lists only a few bugs filed so far as karmic regressions
[16:08] <slangasek> half of them by me, I think :)
[16:09] <slangasek> not too early in the cycle for using that tag...
[16:09] <heno> and will expand cover to Live CDs, upgrades and more VMs this cycle
[16:09] <slangasek> (and LP's new UI changes make it easier than ever, yay!)
[16:09] <slangasek> is everyone over jet lag and ready for alpha-2 candidate testing next week?
[16:09] <pitti> yay!
[16:10] <ttx> \o/
[16:10] <pitti> especially since cjwatson heroically fixed the desktop CDs
[16:10] <rickspencer3> yes!
[16:10] <pitti> this morning I did some downsizing of the Ubuntu CDs
[16:10] <slangasek> heno: anything else that needs discussing?
[16:10] <pitti> now if only the buildds would work :)
[16:10] <heno> slangasek: no, that's it thanks
[16:10] <slangasek> ok, thank you :)
[16:10] <slangasek> [TOPIC] Desktop
[16:10] <MootBot> New Topic:  Desktop
[16:10] <slangasek> pitti, rickspencer3: how goes it?
[16:11] <pitti> I summarized the current karmic plan on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus
[16:11] <slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus
[16:11] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus
[16:11] <rickspencer3> of course pitti has crafted a great overview of our plans post-UDS
[16:11] <pitti> we have one a2 RC bug, which has a workaround and Riddell will work on it
[16:11] <pitti> karmic will be a fun cycle, desktop-wise
[16:11] <pitti> changing half of the system
[16:12] <pitti> specs are still drafting, so some bits might get dropped
[16:12] <slangasek> wow, banshee by default?  doesn't that bring in half of mono again?
[16:12] <pitti> that's one of the less firm changes yet :)
[16:12] <slangasek> (we can take that offline, anyway :)
[16:12] <pitti> (pending drafting, approval, etc.)
[16:12] <pitti> there's also concerns about memory usage
[16:13] <slangasek> heh, "Halsectomy"
[16:13] <pitti> my current main activity, yes
[16:13] <pitti> making good progress, and earning some credits upstream ;)
[16:13] <slangasek> where do acpi events land on that roadmap?
[16:13] <slangasek> (hint killing acpi-support hint)
[16:13] <pitti> "input events FTW"
[16:14] <pitti> i. e. they should all be converted to proper input events in the kernel
[16:14] <pitti> and I guess most of them are now
[16:14] <slangasek> ah, yes
[16:14] <pitti> it's just tricky to verify without the hw
[16:15]  * slangasek nods
[16:15] <slangasek> no other questions from me at this point; anyone else have questions about the Desktop roadmap?
[16:15] <slangasek> pitti: or any other concerns you want to highlight?
[16:16] <pitti> not right now
[16:16] <pitti> once we flip on KMS by default, we need lots of testing
[16:16] <pitti> but that will be properly announced
[16:16] <rickspencer3> in terms of bluetooth ...
[16:16] <rickspencer3> there's kind of split non-ownership of the whole space right now
[16:16]  * robbiew runs away
[16:17] <rickspencer3> neither the desktop team or the foundations team has the resources to fully drive it
[16:17] <slangasek> ah; asac is drafting the spec though?
[16:18] <rickspencer3> I think he's set as drafter now, yes
[16:18] <rickspencer3> but I don't think he has the time to fully own it
[16:18] <robbiew> slangasek: but there are clearly non-desktop components to bluetooth
[16:18] <slangasek> do we have someone in the community who could own it instead?  superm1 has been very good about bluetooth fixes generally
[16:18] <robbiew> superm1 was willing to help
[16:18] <slangasek> robbiew: sure, the kernel bits ;)
[16:18] <robbiew> heh
[16:18] <rickspencer3> yes, I think he is interested in doing that
[16:18]  * slangasek passes that buck right on down
[16:19] <robbiew> foundations = the bridge between desktop and kernel..where the bucks pass by :P
[16:19] <rickspencer3> slangasek: no action needed right now, but I thought you should be aware of the status
[16:19] <rickspencer3> (and everybody else too)
[16:19] <slangasek> rickspencer3: perhaps you could talk to him about taking over the spec formally, then, while keeping it on the desktop roadmap?
[16:20] <robbiew> slangasek: i can do tat
[16:20] <robbiew> that
[16:20] <rickspencer3> I think robbiew already has
[16:20] <slangasek> ok
[16:20]  * robbiew adds to his ToDo list ;)
[16:21] <slangasek> [ACTION] robbiew to discuss with superm1 about blueprint:desktop-karmic-bluetooth-stack
[16:21] <MootBot> ACTION received:  robbiew to discuss with superm1 about blueprint:desktop-karmic-bluetooth-stack
[16:21] <slangasek> :)
[16:21] <slangasek> pitti, rickspencer3: thanks
[16:21] <slangasek> [TOPIC] Mobile
[16:21] <MootBot> New Topic:  Mobile
[16:21] <slangasek> oh, er
[16:21] <slangasek> backing up
[16:21] <robbiew> slangasek: no mobile ;)
[16:22] <slangasek> the desktop roadmap doesn't make any mention of any UI plans from the DX team this cycle
[16:22] <slangasek> ah, he dodged that one, didn't he ;)
[16:22] <pitti> oops
[16:22] <rickspencer3> slangasek: okay, I'll talk to dbarth about that
[16:23] <pitti> can they set up their own roadmap?
[16:23] <rickspencer3> they should own their own roadmap this time, I think
[16:23] <robbiew> +1
[16:23] <rickspencer3> but if it's better for them, we can do it
[16:23] <pitti> I know about the U1 integration, and some packaging issues around that
[16:23] <slangasek> well, DX isn't an Ubuntu team, it's a Canonical team
[16:23] <pitti> slangasek: will include a report next time
[16:23] <slangasek> while I'm happy to have them maintaining their own roadmap, I want to make sure the changes are also in the *Ubuntu* roadmap
[16:24] <slangasek> which I guess means desktop :)
[16:24] <rickspencer3> slangasek: let me know how you best like to see it handled
[16:24] <robbiew> sure
[16:24] <rickspencer3> we can discuss it offline though, and have it ready for next release meeting
[16:24] <slangasek> sounds good, thanks
[16:24] <slangasek> anyway, mobile - I do have some notes from Loïc, which I'll dump quickly
[16:25] <slangasek> * MID image moving to community maintenance; Emmet and people from the Mer project will coordinate the move; cdimage folks in mobile team will help with the technical changes
[16:25] <slangasek> * UNR: karmic: no large update, still 1.0 stuff; jaunty: some SRUs are needed but a couple happened so far
[16:25] <slangasek> * ARM: need to move from Babbage 1 (TO1) to Babbage 2 (TO2) -- newer hardware -- implies patching some places simultaneously (kernel, redboot, cdimage); kernel changes expected to land for A3
[16:25] <slangasek> * specs: some drafted, most still drafting
[16:26] <slangasek> any concerns about any of that?
[16:26] <slangasek> pgraner: your guys are in the loop on the ARM kernel changes needed, I assume?
[16:26] <pgraner> slangasek: yep, A3 is the target for the initial FreeScale patches
[16:27] <slangasek> ok, good
[16:27] <pgraner> slangasek: mobile does the redboot changes
[16:27]  * slangasek nods
[16:27] <slangasek> [TOPIC] Kernel
[16:27] <MootBot> New Topic:  Kernel
[16:27]  * ogra is playing with that, might be ready before A2 but without kernel ...
[16:27] <slangasek> segging right in, then :)
[16:27] <pgraner> slangasek: yea
[16:27] <pgraner> 2.6.31 is the kernel target
[16:28] <slangasek> how solid is that target at this point?
[16:28] <slangasek> hearsay at UDS was varied :)
[16:28] <pgraner> No expected issues, 30 will be closing soon and we have an number of patches we are pushing into the .31 merge window
[16:28] <pgraner> i.e. AppArmor
[16:29] <slangasek> whee
[16:29] <slangasek> what was the liveCD benefit that .31 was going to bring us?
[16:29] <slangasek> cjwatson: ?
[16:29] <pgraner> yes it was...
[16:29] <pitti> the mount --union one?
[16:29] <slangasek> probably
[16:29] <ogra> \o/
[16:29] <cjwatson> right
[16:29] <cjwatson> although there was talk of backporting that
[16:30] <slangasek> cjwatson: is what we have with 2.6.30 right now viable for release, or is it all rickety and only serving until .31 is in?
[16:30] <slangasek> i.e., if the kernel roadmap changes and we don't go with .31 for some reason, what are the implications?
[16:30] <cjwatson> jury's still out, I think. It's working OK for me in KVM but I haven't heard reports on real hw yet, and I know ogra said unionfs-fuse is pretty slow for him
[16:30] <cjwatson> TBH I would rather we backported mount --union in that event
[16:30] <ogra> on ltsp though
[16:31] <slangasek> ok
[16:31] <cjwatson> I'm not hugely happy with doing it in userspace and regard it as a stopgap
[16:31] <ogra> might be the nbd/unionfs combo
[16:31] <slangasek> pgraner: is that on your guys' radar then, for any .30/.31 decision yet to be made?
[16:31] <slangasek> or are you confident at this point that .31 is it?
[16:32] <pgraner> we are putting all of our resource into getting .31 into shape.
[16:32] <slangasek> ok
[16:32] <pgraner> if it starts to become unstable, we are prepared to do what is necessary to make .30 work
[16:32] <slangasek> good-o
[16:33] <slangasek> are there any major changes in .31 that you think we should get a heads-up on?  (or if you don't have them to hand now, perhaps a report on that at a later meeting?)
[16:33] <pgraner> we are still churning thru UDS specs once we get done we will have a "plan b" for the kernel
[16:33]  * slangasek nods
[16:33] <pitti> from the desktop team's perspective, .31 would certainly be a win
[16:33] <pitti> wrt. GEM/KMS improvements, etc.
[16:33] <pgraner> we will give you a report, I will be doing a release status wiki for the kernel for this cycle
[16:34] <slangasek> excellent :)
[16:34] <slangasek> pgraner: thanks much!
[16:34] <pgraner> The only other big thing right now is ext4 by default
[16:34] <pitti> with karmic being the Fedora of Ubuntu releases anyway, it might be a good time?
[16:34] <pgraner> We talked with Ted upstream and he will be assisting on any issues found
[16:34] <slangasek> is that looking good for making the switch in karmic, then?
[16:35] <slangasek> have we tested ext4+grub2, btw?
[16:35] <pgraner> from the kernel teams perspective ... yes
[16:35] <pgraner> Yes but not as much as we would like
[16:35] <cjwatson> you'll get plenty of testing with a2 ;-)
[16:35] <slangasek> cjwatson: is ext4 the default in a2?
[16:35] <pgraner> cking is putting together a better testing plan complete with image
[16:35] <cjwatson> slangasek: yes
[16:35] <slangasek> wow, awesome :)
[16:36] <ttx> cjwatson: including for server ?
[16:36] <pitti> cjwatson: grub2 in a2 as well?
[16:37] <cjwatson> ttx: yes, currently; it's much harder to make that vary than to make it the same
[16:37] <cjwatson> pitti: let's wait 'til we get to the foundations slot ;-)
[16:37] <ttx> cjwatson: wfm
[16:37] <pitti> (sorry)
[16:37] <slangasek> shall we move on to foundations now? :)
[16:37]  * pitti is in "bring on the crack" mood
[16:37] <pgraner> I'm good
[16:37] <slangasek> [TOPIC] Foundations
[16:37] <MootBot> New Topic:  Foundations
[16:37] <robbiew> we're done :P
[16:38] <cjwatson> I think we're a bit behind on spec drafting, although there's been a reasonable amount of activity there; should be in a better position next time to give a more complete report
[16:38] <robbiew> agreed
[16:38]  * robbiew needs to pull together the "list" and then sort it out
[16:38] <cjwatson> the big things are bzr development, boot speed, KMS support
[16:38] <robbiew> grub2 by default
[16:38] <robbiew> i586 switch
[16:39] <slangasek> in the short term, are there any potentially hairy issues for alpha-2?  We have working liveCDs now (thanks, cjwatson!) and need to beat them down to size
[16:39] <cjwatson> so, for alpha 2, we'll have ext4 by default and will also switch to grub2 (hi, pitti)
[16:39] <pitti> \o/
[16:39] <cjwatson> grub2 isn't entirely where we want it to be, but might as well get started
[16:39] <cjwatson> (we won't be upgrading existing systems to it)
[16:39] <pitti> we need to do _some_ breakage, karmic is way too stable still
[16:39] <slangasek> who wants the action item to document grub2 and ext4 for the a2 tech overview?
[16:39] <cjwatson> I'll take that
[16:39] <slangasek> [ACTION] cjwatson to draft a2 tech overview items on grub2 and ext4 by default
[16:39] <MootBot> ACTION received:  cjwatson to draft a2 tech overview items on grub2 and ext4 by default
[16:40] <cjwatson> when a2 lands, we need to do matching rebuilds with i486 vs. i586
[16:40] <cjwatson> which I'll coordinate with Adam
[16:40] <slangasek> cjwatson: is "not doing upgrades" the only thing with grub2 that's lagging?
[16:40] <cjwatson> that will support the i586 switch decision
[16:40]  * slangasek nods
[16:40] <cjwatson> slangasek: various things like DX team support (a "boot this OS next time" selector)
[16:40] <slangasek> ah, yes
[16:41] <cjwatson> I don't think there's anything critical missing, or I wouldn't be suggesting switching
[16:41] <slangasek> is password support still outstanding upstream?
[16:41] <cjwatson> yes, I believe so
[16:42] <slangasek> something we should escalate with them?  That's the one major feature regression I'm aware of still with grub2 vs. grub1
[16:42] <calc> cjwatson: will the results of the i386 vs i586 testing be posted somewhere?
[16:42] <cjwatson> so not production-ready yet, but we need to start shaking out boot issues
[16:42] <slangasek> indeed
[16:42] <cjwatson> slangasek: I'll do that
[16:42] <cjwatson> calc: "somewhere", yes
[16:42] <cjwatson> not much point otherwise :)
[16:42] <slangasek> [ACTION] cjwatson to escalate grub2 password support regression with upstream
[16:42] <MootBot> ACTION received:  cjwatson to escalate grub2 password support regression with upstream
[16:42] <ogra> its i486 vs 586, no ?
[16:42] <cjwatson> I'm not aware of anything else landing for a2, unless we get enthusiastic and shove in rsyslog too
[16:43] <cjwatson> half the team has been on holiday anyway :)
[16:44] <cjwatson> robbiew: anything else you know of?
[16:44] <robbiew> no, not really
[16:45] <robbiew> will be better prepared next week....wiki page and everything!
[16:45] <slangasek> looking forward to it :)
[16:45] <slangasek> [TOPIC] Server
[16:45] <MootBot> New Topic:  Server
[16:45] <slangasek> ttx: hi
[16:45] <ttx> hey :)
[16:45] <ttx> Standing in for dendrobates.
[16:45] <ttx> So we are currently drafting our server-karmic-* specs, then dendrobates will prioritize/assign based on https://wiki.canonical.com/UbuntuPlatform/Roadmaps/9.10/ServerEdition, because we probably won't be able to do everything
[16:46] <ttx> The big thing is Eucalyptus (again) with new version, extra power management features, move to main along with hundreds of deps, fit on CD
[16:46] <ttx> Other cloudy stuff should make it as well, like virtual appliance.
[16:46] <ttx> However we still hope to be able to do some other things as well, like more directory integration.
[16:47] <slangasek> ttx: it will be nice to have a public wiki roadmap page at some point too, fwiw
[16:47] <ttx> slangasek: sure, once we have wed out what we won't do.
[16:47] <slangasek> yep, that's fair
[16:47] <ttx> On the a2 side of things, the upgrade to Kerberos 1.7 should have broken likewise-open, as planned. It will stay broken until we move to 5.2 (unreleased yet).
[16:47] <ttx> slangasek: I can confirm breakage on Monday if you want to list it in the known issues.
[16:48] <slangasek> [ACTION] ttx to confirm whether likewise-open is broken with krb5 1.7, for documentation in the a2 tech overview
[16:48] <MootBot> ACTION received:  ttx to confirm whether likewise-open is broken with krb5 1.7, for documentation in the a2 tech overview
[16:48] <slangasek> ttx: appreciated :)
[16:48] <ttx> We don't expect Likewise to release 5.2 until July at best
[16:48] <slangasek> ok
[16:49] <ttx> so I'll make sure to pressure them to avoid Junty-like delays and exceptions
[16:49] <pitti> ttx: anything wrong with packaging a git head snapshot? that'll also help them with testing?
[16:49] <ttx> pitti: the kerberos 1.7 part isn't even written yet, but yes, I'll start with early snapshots
[16:50] <pitti> ttx: ah, I misunderstood then
[16:51] <pitti> sorry guys, I need to run; rickspencer3 will stay around
[16:51] <slangasek> ttx: anything else we need to know about?
[16:51] <slangasek> pitti: thanks
[16:51] <ttx> slangasek: no. We don't have any a2 bugs
[16:52] <slangasek> I saw a couple of specs had been targeted to alpha2 by kirkland
[16:52] <ttx> slangasek: interesting. Checking...
[16:52] <ogra> wow, brave :)
[16:52] <kirkland> slangasek: yeah, daily builds of kvm, qemu/kvm repackaging
[16:53] <slangasek> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/server-karmic-kvm-qemu-packaging, https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/server-karmic-pristine-daily-virt-builds
[16:53] <slangasek> kirkland: on track? :)
[16:53]  * heno needs to run too; sbeattie will cover QA 
[16:53] <slangasek> heno: thanks!
[16:53] <kirkland> slangasek: heh, this week was less productive than I previously planned :-)
[16:53] <kirkland> slangasek: too much time spec-writing, catching up on 2 weeks of email/bugs :-)
[16:53] <ttx> kirkland: retarget for alpha3 ?
[16:53] <kirkland> slangasek: i'm goign to bump those to a-3
[16:53] <slangasek> sounds good
[16:54] <slangasek> (I know the feeling...)
[16:54] <slangasek> ttx: thanks for standing in
[16:54] <slangasek> [TOPIC] MOTU
[16:54] <MootBot> New Topic:  MOTU
[16:54] <ttx> slangasek: np
[16:54] <slangasek> not sure we have a motu-release representative here today
[16:54] <slangasek> ScottK: around?
[16:54] <ogra> bad time for him
[16:55] <ogra> and i didnt hear about election of the karmic representatives yet ... that usually happens at some point
[16:56] <slangasek> [ACTION] slangasek to touch base with ScottK about universe plans
[16:56] <MootBot> ACTION received:  slangasek to touch base with ScottK about universe plans
[16:56] <slangasek> [TOPIC] Known regressions
[16:56] <MootBot> New Topic:  Known regressions
[16:56] <rickspencer3> slangasek: pitti asked me to pass on some info about the desktop CD size, is this the time to mention?
[16:57] <slangasek> rickspencer3: few more minutes
[16:57] <rickspencer3> k
[16:57] <slangasek> [LINK] http://www.ubuntu.com/testing/karmic/alpha1#Known issues
[16:57] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://www.ubuntu.com/testing/karmic/alpha1#Known issues
[16:57] <slangasek> one relevant issue there, "English language support is not installed by default"
[16:57] <slangasek> cjwatson: I assume this is fixed for a2, do you happen to know for sure?
[16:58] <cjwatson> pretty sure that's fixed, I ripped out the workaround over two weeks ago
[16:58] <slangasek> ok
[16:58] <cjwatson> and openoffice.org-l10n no longer shows up as uninstallable
[16:58] <cjwatson> so I think we're good there
[16:58] <slangasek> other than that then, we just have the usual regression-potential queue; be sure to tag your bugs, etc., etc.
[16:59] <slangasek> desktop team is doing quite well at fielding mine :)
[16:59] <slangasek> [TOPIC] ISO size
[16:59] <MootBot> New Topic:  ISO size
[16:59] <slangasek> rickspencer3: now :)
[16:59] <rickspencer3> (08:43:56 AM) pitti: for CD size, I dropped all langpacks and unseeded ekiga
[17:00]  * rickspencer3 can copy and paste!
[17:00] <slangasek> oh, interesting
[17:00] <slangasek> poor ekiga
[17:00] <cjwatson> slangasek: I just upgraded your cd-size-analysis script on antimony to be able to fish out sizes from isoinfo output, which should decrease its false negative rate quite a bit
[17:00] <slangasek> cjwatson: oh, rockin'
[17:00] <rickspencer3> ekiga is being replaced by sip support in empathy
[17:00] <rickspencer3> (we hope)
[17:01] <robbiew> heh
[17:01] <cjwatson> slangasek: though it's still a right pain to read due to package renames
[17:01] <slangasek> which is only one of the protocols supported by ekiga, but if that's our preferred target, so be it :)
[17:01] <slangasek> cjwatson: <nod>
[17:01] <cjwatson> I think maybe sorting the whole thing would help
[17:01] <cjwatson> libraries in particular aren't likely to change their sort order much across a rename
[17:02]  * slangasek is reminded of the samba bloat that needs pruned upstream; grr
[17:03] <slangasek> so, more progress to be made on CD size so we can re-add langpacks, but sounds like we're on track for a2
[17:03] <slangasek> I've been working on NBSing out libkrb53, which will save a little but requires half a dozen more rebuilds yet
[17:03] <rickspencer3> we need to get couchdb in there asap as well, but pitti wants to do some surgery on it to slim it down
[17:03] <cjwatson> desktops are still oversized
[17:03] <slangasek> not a huge benefit but needs to be done anyway
[17:04] <slangasek> cjwatson: after pitti's seed changes?
[17:04] <cjwatson> couchdb => erlang, IIRC?
[17:04] <cjwatson> slangasek: today's live build, dunno
[17:04] <slangasek> I guess we need tomorrow's live build to know for sure
[17:04] <rickspencer3> we're also working with the soyuz team to enable delivering gnome help files with lang packs
[17:04] <slangasek> thanks to coreutils
[17:04] <rickspencer3> that should save us some space
[17:04] <slangasek> indeed
[17:04] <cjwatson> slangasek: oh, yeah, that change was today
[17:05] <cjwatson> so probably no immediate cause for panic
[17:05] <slangasek> anyone have other brilliant ideas for shrinking CDs that need some manpower thrown at them? :)
[17:06] <slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
[17:06] <MootBot> New Topic:  AOB
[17:06] <cjwatson> xulrunner-1.9 seems to have grown by a full megabyte
[17:06] <slangasek> oops, didn't mean to cut you off
[17:06] <cjwatson> across a mere two upstream point releases; I wonder if anything's up there
[17:06] <cjwatson> nah, just stream-of-consciousness now, can move to #ubuntu-devel
[17:07] <slangasek> one quick note here, 8.04.3 is creeping up on us
[17:08] <cjwatson> oh, yes, I DID mean to mention that
[17:08] <cjwatson> I sent mail yesterday suggesting that we push it back a week
[17:08]  * robbiew forgot to respond...but agrees
[17:08] <cjwatson> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+milestone/ubuntu-8.04.3
[17:09] <slangasek> I should have a mail out later today to the folks whose involvement is critical, with a list of bugs we need to get sorted
[17:10] <cjwatson> I spent much of yesterday pushing my own SRUs up the hill, would definitely appreciate if others could do the same
[17:10] <slangasek> but yes, picking off entries from the milestone list certainly won't hurt
[17:10] <slangasek> [LINK] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+milestone/ubuntu-8.04.3
[17:10] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+milestone/ubuntu-8.04.3
[17:10] <slangasek> [LINK] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy/+bugs?field.milestone=2132
[17:10] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy/+bugs?field.milestone=2132
[17:11] <slangasek> pgraner: I see a number of 'triaged' kernel bugs on the list; can someone from your team look at those?
[17:12] <pgraner> slangasek: yep, smb will get on it
[17:12] <slangasek> [ACTION] smb to follow up on 8.04.3-targeted kernel bugs
[17:12] <MootBot> ACTION received:  smb to follow up on 8.04.3-targeted kernel bugs
[17:12] <slangasek> thanks
[17:12] <slangasek> that's all I have, then
[17:12] <slangasek> anything else?
[17:12] <rickspencer3> thanks slangasek!
[17:13] <slangasek> #endmeeting
[17:13] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:13.
[17:13] <slangasek> there's the gavel
[17:13] <slangasek> thanks, folks
[19:02] <stgraber> heya
[19:02] <highvoltage> sorry, I thought I was here already
[19:03]  * highvoltage hits the meeting gong
[19:03] <highvoltage> *gong*
[19:03] <LaserJock> #startmeeting
[19:03] <MootBot> Meeting started at 13:03. The chair is LaserJock.
[19:03] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[19:03] <stgraber> where's the agenda ? it wasn't mentioned in the mail.
[19:03] <highvoltage> Meeting agenda:
[19:03] <highvoltage> - Edubuntu Strategy Document
[19:04] <highvoltage> - Community Council Compliance
[19:04] <highvoltage> - nubae membership
[19:05] <highvoltage> stgraber: sorry, I thought I did: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/Community/MeetingAgenda
[19:05] <stgraber> thanks
[19:05] <LaserJock> ok, shall we just take them down the line?
[19:05] <highvoltage> yep
[19:05] <LaserJock> TOPIC Edubuntu Strategy Document
[19:06] <LaserJock> [TOPIC] Edubuntu Strategy Document
[19:06] <MootBot> New Topic:  Edubuntu Strategy Document
[19:06] <sbalneav> Afternoon all
[19:06] <highvoltage> Here's the link to the current draft: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/StrategyDocument
[19:06] <LaserJock> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/StrategyDocument
[19:06] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/StrategyDocument
[19:06] <BenoitStandre> hi everyone
[19:06] <highvoltage> hi BenoitStandre
[19:06] <highvoltage> and sbalneav
[19:06] <LaserJock> ok, so highvoltage and I worked a little on the Development section today
[19:06]  * stgraber looks
[19:06] <LaserJock> the other sections should be pretty feature-complete
[19:07] <highvoltage> stgraber: it's under the development section
[19:07] <highvoltage> (the part that's been added today)
[19:07] <LaserJock> but IMO we're still needing to get down to the dirt of how we're going to get things done
[19:07] <LaserJock> we've figured out our goals, and how we're arranging the community
[19:07] <stgraber> highvoltage: yeah, noticed that. That's really good thanks both of you
[19:07] <LaserJock> but I think the most important part is the actual "strategy"
[19:07] <highvoltage> LaserJock: I think there are some parts that we will have to accept as question marks initially
[19:07] <stgraber> highvoltage: is that roadmap for karmic available somewhere (the document we worked on during UDS) ?
[19:08] <highvoltage> LaserJock: some things that we won't be able to answer from the start, like how to get more maintainers
[19:08] <LaserJock> let's not worry about that for the moment
[19:08] <highvoltage> ok
[19:08] <LaserJock> let's focus on how we can achieve our goals/objectives
[19:08] <highvoltage> stgraber: I checked on gobby but I see it's not all there, I think gobby went down not long after we started, I blogged my notes, will get them for you just now
[19:09] <stgraber> highvoltage: http://paste.ubuntu.com/189148/ ?
[19:09] <LaserJock> what elements do you guys feel are critical to get to our goals of Education, Integration, and Usability?
[19:09] <stgraber> highvoltage: just found this one on my netbook
[19:10] <highvoltage> LaserJock: well, expanding the edubuntu team would be a good start imho
[19:10] <stgraber> LaserJock: more hands ? ;)
[19:10] <highvoltage> stgraber: ah! now I remember, we gobbied to your notebook!
[19:10] <LaserJock> ok, more hands doing what?
[19:10] <highvoltage> [LINK] http://paste.ubuntu.com/189148/
[19:10] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://paste.ubuntu.com/189148/
[19:11] <stgraber> well, we have some developement to do for Karmic (see above) and could probably use some people working on generally updating Edubuntu's documentation and doing some IRC support.
[19:11] <highvoltage> LaserJock: getting software that's out there into edubuntu. then maintaining it and other packages
[19:11] <stgraber> the website would also need to be updated
[19:11] <BenoitStandre> IMHO we need more hands making everything usable , and that's tricky
[19:11] <highvoltage> can the bot log stuff that needs to be done? like action items?
[19:12] <stgraber> I guess a start for the packaging part would be to move the packaging branch of what we maintain into edubuntu-dev so we can do team maintenance
[19:12] <LaserJock> highvoltage: yep
[19:12] <stgraber> then we can have people who aren't MOTU or Coredev to contribute to the packaging
[19:12] <BenoitStandre> because people that focus on usability might not be necessarily people that focus on integration and packaging
[19:12] <LaserJock> ok, so how should be break up or categorize Edubuntu Development
[19:13] <highvoltage> just for clarity, when we talk about Edubuntu Development, we mean more than just software development right?
[19:13] <LaserJock> *we
[19:13] <LaserJock> yep
[19:13] <highvoltage> so that would include documentation, etc as well?
[19:13] <LaserJock> yes
[19:13] <BenoitStandre> highvoltage : we must :-)
[19:13] <highvoltage> ok so development (just to through it out there) could be categorised as:
[19:13] <highvoltage>  * developing upstream software
[19:13] <highvoltage>  * maintaining packages in ubuntu
[19:14] <stgraber> documentation (wiki and website), packaging (new stuff, maintaining others, fixing upgrade path), dev (implementing the menu stuff), qa (bug triaging and testing) and local participation / promotion (basically giving us feedback and speaking about Edubuntu)
[19:14] <highvoltage>  * documentation
[19:14] <stgraber> (sorry took me a while to write this one)
[19:14] <highvoltage> ok stgraber has it nicely
[19:14] <highvoltage> QA is probably the area we have neglected the most
[19:14] <BenoitStandre> I mean, looking at the section "Reaching goals" sums it all I think
[19:14] <LaserJock> artwork? support?
[19:15] <highvoltage> that will be critical if we want to release a full distro again and something we'll have to get right for this release
[19:15] <highvoltage> artwork, yes. I'm not sure if support would count as development
[19:15] <highvoltage> but support would obviously be an important component of edubuntu
[19:15] <LaserJock> advocacy/marketing?
[19:16] <bencrisford> Thats very important IMO
[19:16] <bencrisford> everyones heard of edubuntu
[19:16] <bencrisford> but we need to get them to want it
[19:16] <BenoitStandre> advocacy and marketing are important
[19:16] <highvoltage> that's also important but would also fall outside of development. I wonder how we can group together advocacy, marketing and support
[19:16] <stgraber> advocacy being part of local participation / promotion in what I pasted before
[19:17] <LaserJock> right
[19:17] <stgraber> and yes it's really important but something we're actually already quite good at (but unfortunately without something real behind it)
[19:17] <bencrisford> LaserJock: We could make a SprEdubuntu project :P
[19:17] <highvoltage> maybe just list them as non-development focus areas. or be over-inclusive and just list it as development areas even if they're nog (which would be a bit iffy imho)
[19:19] <highvoltage> LaserJock's question was how we would categorize edubuntu development
[19:20] <highvoltage> as far as i can think the above mentioned categories covers what edubuntu should be doing quite well
[19:20] <LaserJock> ok
[19:21] <LaserJock> so we can do those development categories
[19:21] <LaserJock> I really want to talk about what each of those categories should do, but I'm not sure we have time
[19:21] <LaserJock> the thing is, I still feel like this strategy doc is not really giving us much to go on
[19:22] <bencrisford> guys in my opinion, we're spending far too much time fussing over this strategy document
[19:22] <LaserJock> it's very high level, somewhat abstract, managerial type stuff
[19:22] <bencrisford> making strategy docs isnt gonna get edubuntu done!
[19:22] <bencrisford> sure itll help
[19:22] <highvoltage> LaserJock: isn't that all we need in such a document though?
[19:22] <bencrisford> but not if we spend all our time on it!
[19:22] <LaserJock> highvoltage: well, we have a doc with no strategy
[19:23] <highvoltage> you're right
[19:23] <BenoitStandre> I think the document is essential like it is, it is a strategy, and it shows essential things
[19:23] <BenoitStandre> that were maybe hidden or underestimated before
[19:23] <highvoltage> does it have to be a strategy doc per se though?
[19:23] <BenoitStandre> so now, we can move forward with how to do it :-)
[19:23] <LaserJock> ok, well maybe it's just me
[19:23] <bencrisford> the document is very essential, but if we're gonna spend weeks making the strategy rather than actually working on edubuntu in more direct ways then it'll never get done
[19:23] <LaserJock> but if I were a new contributor I wouldn't get much of anything out of the doc
[19:24] <LaserJock> I'd read it and say "that's very nice, but I have  no clue what to do now"
[19:24] <bencrisford> new contributors might not want to read a long document
[19:24] <bencrisford> we should have a summary
[19:24] <LaserJock> what is there is great
[19:24] <LaserJock> but I feel like it doesn't move us forward
[19:24] <bencrisford> just what we're gonna do, and what how we're gonna do it
[19:24] <LaserJock> it's more like a mission statement
[19:24] <highvoltage> LaserJock: well, I think a new contributor should get a good idea of what edubuntu does and why it does so, and how edubuntu fits into the bigger picture
[19:25] <LaserJock> I agree with the why
[19:25] <LaserJock> I'm not sure about the "does"
[19:25] <BenoitStandre> Being a new contributor that wants to contribute, I feel that I could step in and say "I'd like to help on usability and integration, what are the tasks I could start with ?"
[19:25] <stgraber> I think the current document is good for what it's, it's not a quick start guide for contributors but it was never supposed to be that
[19:25] <highvoltage> LaserJock: I just don't think we're capable of having a grand big strategy that's going to lay out exactly how we're going to do things over the next months/years/etc
[19:26] <LaserJock> highvoltage: why not?
[19:26] <stgraber> for that we used to have some kind of contacts on the website/wiki that would act as mentors and help the new contributor join the project
[19:26] <LaserJock> we don't know what we're doing?
[19:26] <LaserJock> the big problem for me is that very little actual work has been done over the last year
[19:26] <highvoltage> LaserJock: I don't think we have enough information or time. we could end up spending another 6 months on the thing :/
[19:26] <LaserJock> if people can't figure out how to move our strategies forward we're not going to get much of anywhere
[19:27] <bencrisford> highvoltage: *exactly* we should be working on edubuntu in more direct ways now, we've spent weeks on this document
[19:27] <bencrisford> it wont get much done if we go on like this
[19:27] <LaserJock> bencrisford: and yet, the fact that we've spent weeks indicates to me that we have no clue what we're doing
[19:27] <bencrisford> exactly
[19:27] <bencrisford> but more meetings wont solve this
[19:27] <bencrisford> everyones ideas are clear now IMO
[19:27] <LaserJock> are they?
[19:27] <bencrisford> i think so
[19:28] <highvoltage> I thought so too but it seems that I was wrong :)
[19:28] <LaserJock> then why can't we get a strategy together?
[19:28] <highvoltage> LaserJock: let's step back a bit
[19:28] <BenoitStandre> just not to undermine the document, I think it is essential to have a strategy
[19:28] <bencrisford> because we're trying to hard LaserJock
[19:28] <LaserJock> if everybody know how to do this then it would take 1 day to write this thing
[19:28] <bencrisford> we just need to put peoples feelings and ideas
[19:28] <BenoitStandre> and that the document like it is sums it all very well
[19:28] <bencrisford> clearly and simply
[19:28] <highvoltage> LaserJock: we know more or less what we want to do for karmic, and we'd like to get ready for karmic+1 as a full distro release
[19:28] <LaserJock> what are we doing for karmic?
[19:28] <LaserJock> gimme the task list
[19:29] <highvoltage> ok
[19:29] <stgraber> LaserJock: saw that URL that I pasted a bit before ?
[19:29] <highvoltage> LaserJock: it's on http://paste.ubuntu.com/189148/ as well but I'll paste some of it here for your convenienve
[19:29] <LaserJock> yeah
[19:29] <LaserJock> that's not much of a task list
[19:29] <highvoltage>  * Enabling universe for Edubuntu builds
[19:30] <LaserJock> I mean what's there is good for sure
[19:30] <sbalneav> Karmic goals for sbalneav: fix sabayon, bring handbook up to date, close crasher bugs @ edubuntu-bugsquad
[19:30] <highvoltage>  * Sugar integration
[19:30] <highvoltage>  * Sorting our community out
[19:31] <highvoltage> well, before I go on...
[19:31] <highvoltage> LaserJock: would you specifically like Edubuntu to do more for the next release?
[19:31] <LaserJock> k
[19:31] <LaserJock> 1) somebody needs to learn the seeds
[19:31] <LaserJock> 2) ubuntu-edu-* and universe metapackages need to be reviewed
[19:32] <LaserJock> 3) packages updated
[19:32] <LaserJock> 4) MIRs filed
[19:32] <LaserJock> 5) website needs updated and cleaned up
[19:32] <LaserJock> 6) wiki needs major work
[19:32] <LaserJock> 7) we need to get our bugs < 100
[19:32] <LaserJock> 8) official statement from Canonical
[19:32] <highvoltage> imho 2-7 needs to happen for every release? that means that it shouldn't be in a strategy doc, should it?
[19:33] <LaserJock> 9) promote the great new Edubuntu
[19:33] <LaserJock> if it happens every release it *should* be in the doc
[19:33] <highvoltage> LaserJock: ok, so how about listing the plans for Karmic and karmic+1 as part of the strategy doc?
[19:33] <stgraber> 1, I know how that works but I don't have access, 4) did that for a few already
[19:33] <LaserJock> 10) figure out to do the documentation
[19:33] <highvoltage> then you could have that level of detail in the document and have a real strategy
[19:33] <LaserJock> *what to do
[19:34] <LaserJock> highvoltage: let's make separate wiki pages for each release
[19:34] <LaserJock> and then once we've filed them in add the common stuff to the doc
[19:34] <bencrisford> LaserJock: Re:  No.8, want me to see if i can drag some canonical peeps on here?
[19:34] <LaserJock> no
[19:34] <bencrisford> ok
[19:34] <LaserJock> we just need to pester Mark/mdz
[19:34] <bencrisford> mark?
[19:34] <LaserJock> Shuttleworth
[19:34] <highvoltage> sabdfl
[19:35] <bencrisford> oh
[19:35] <LaserJock> we need that statement by Karmic's release
[19:35] <highvoltage> LaserJock: btw, mdz did email me and ask me if he still needs to follow up
[19:35] <highvoltage> LaserJock: I think that was yesterday or so
[19:35] <bencrisford> he seems to be around on #launchpad :P, lol, but we probably shouldnt bother out self appointed benevolent dictator for life
[19:35] <LaserJock> 11) release announcements/notes
[19:35] <highvoltage> LaserJock: I said that we're going to continue taking it via the CC and TB
[19:35] <LaserJock> 12) menus
[19:36] <LaserJock> 13) more age-appropriate work (artwork/themes, even docs)
[19:36]  * LaserJock can think of a pretty big list given a few minutes :-0
[19:36] <bencrisford> In the current task list, it says we need to maintain packages in time for teaching in schools and stuff
[19:36] <highvoltage> well, we don't have to fix/do *everything* in one release
[19:36] <stgraber> usually 11 is some kind of team effort and we agreed with highvoltage that it should be the work of the edubuntu council (I think we documented that as part of the strategy at some point)
[19:37] <highvoltage> but all of those areas do desperately need work nad revival, yes
[19:37] <highvoltage> yes that's if the EC also acts as a type of TB, although I think that anyone who is willing to contribute that should be able to
[19:38] <highvoltage> so it shouldn't be limited to the EC, but the EC must make sure that it happens
[19:39] <stgraber> indeed
[19:39] <stgraber> similar to what's done with Ubuntu
[19:39] <stgraber> basically the release team takes care of it but it's done on a wikipage with external contributors
[19:40] <highvoltage> LaserJock: ok so there will be wiki pages listing those items for karmic and karmic+1
[19:40] <highvoltage> LaserJock: what type of actions would you still want to see in the strategy doc?
[19:42] <LaserJock> ok
[19:42] <LaserJock> so yeah
[19:42] <stgraber> well, let's move on, it's only the first item on the agenda ;)
[19:42] <LaserJock> let's make wiki.u.com/Edubuntu/9.10/Tasks
[19:42] <highvoltage> LaserJock: what do you think of having the karmic and karmic+1 pages the strategies for those releases
[19:42] <LaserJock> and /10.04/Taks
[19:42] <stgraber> so basically what we need is someone to write the roadmap on the wiki based on the gobby and the IRC notes
[19:43] <highvoltage> LaserJock: and then make the strategy doc more of a mission statement document?
[19:43] <LaserJock> highvoltage: I still think we need more specfics
[19:43] <LaserJock> but I think we should let those grow from our tasks lists
[19:43] <highvoltage> LaserJock: mind giving some examples?
[19:43] <LaserJock> perhaps we're approaching from the wrong direction
[19:43] <LaserJock> instead of having a strategy and then creating tasks
[19:44] <LaserJock> perhaps we need to just write down what we want to do, and figure out the common themes and methods
[19:44] <highvoltage> I think what's currently in that doc has it down quite good imo
[19:44] <sbalneav> Karmic goals for sbalneav: fix sabayon, bring handbook up to date, close crasher bugs @ edubuntu-bugsquad
[19:44] <stgraber> I see the strategy as some kind of introduction to the project, technical stuff and roadmaps should be separate and be decided either late in the previous release cycle or very early in the current
[19:45] <highvoltage> sbalneav: great, at least that takes care of the documentation burden somewhat!
[19:45] <LaserJock> stgraber: right, but I think the strategy doc does need some "how" in it
[19:45] <highvoltage> I agree with stgraber, because the technical stuff and roadmaps tend to change
[19:45] <highvoltage> I think that strategy doc needs to be something that's more static
[19:45] <LaserJock> enough "how" that people can read it and get an idea of what they can contribute to
[19:45] <highvoltage> something that should stay true for many releases
[19:45] <LaserJock> well, ideally the technical stuff will remain largely the same
[19:45] <highvoltage> true
[19:46] <LaserJock> i.e. we should have development policies and procedures in place
[19:46] <LaserJock> that's what I'm getting at
[19:46] <LaserJock> how do we do what we do
[19:46] <LaserJock> I don't need specific tasks
[19:46] <highvoltage> LaserJock: but shouldn't they be able to see how they could contribute by looking at the release plans as well?
[19:46] <LaserJock> but how do we as a community want to develop Edubuntu
[19:46] <LaserJock> sure
[19:46] <highvoltage> in my opinion that doc already gives people a good idea of what they can do to improve edubuntu
[19:46] <LaserJock> the release plans should be "ok, here's how we're gonna do it this release and the specific tasks that are going to happen"
[19:47] <stgraber> I think for the "how do we do it?" the current team descriptions answer quite a lot already
[19:47] <LaserJock> ok
[19:47] <stgraber> though what would be interesting would be to add links to additional documentation at the end of the strategy doc
[19:48] <stgraber> like to a guide for newcomers and useful ressources to get started but that shouldn't be part of the strategy
[19:49] <LaserJock> yep
[19:49] <stgraber> should we take some actions there and move on ?
[19:49] <highvoltage> yes
[19:50] <highvoltage> stgraber: would you be willing to look at the seeds and find out what we need to do to get you the required access to change things?
[19:50] <LaserJock> it takes a core dev
[19:50] <LaserJock> but I'm more than happy to "sponsor" changes
[19:50] <highvoltage> stgraber is one of those shiny new partial-core-devs
[19:50] <stgraber> indeed, and I already started to poke to get "full core dev"
[19:51] <stgraber> the "upgrade" from limited to full coredev isn't clear in the documentation so I'll probably need to ping the TB at the next meeting or something similar
[19:51] <highvoltage> and I think we have some good motivation to add to his existing reasons for becomming a full one
[19:51] <stgraber> yeah and I'm already familiar with how seeds work, I just don't have commit access to them
[19:51] <highvoltage> stgraber: we've already added edubuntu for the next TB meeting: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda
[19:52] <stgraber> highvoltage: cool, then you'll already be there ;)
[19:52] <LaserJock> ok, so but to finish off the agenda item
[19:52] <highvoltage> stgraber: perhaps you could make a note of that there as well, also feel free to add your name to myself and LaserJock's, I can't quite remember why I didn't add yours before
[19:52] <LaserJock> we're going to 1) finish off the doc this week and send it to relevant places 2) create a Karmic task list 3) create a Karmic+1 task list
[19:52] <LaserJock> ?
[19:53] <highvoltage> +1
[19:53] <stgraber> sounds good, +1
[19:53] <sbalneav> +1
[19:54] <LaserJock> [ACTION] finalize strategy document and send to relevant mailing lists/news sources
[19:54] <MootBot> ACTION received:  finalize strategy document and send to relevant mailing lists/news sources
[19:54] <highvoltage> ok, shall we move on to the CC stuff?
[19:54] <highvoltage> ok I'll give LaserJock a minute to add the actions first
[19:54] <LaserJock> [ACTION] Create Karmic and Karmic+1 task list wiki pages
[19:54] <MootBot> ACTION received:  Create Karmic and Karmic+1 task list wiki pages
[19:54] <LaserJock> ok
[19:55] <LaserJock> CC stuff
[19:55] <highvoltage> The CC noticed the changes in the Edubuntu team and it raised a flag
[19:55] <highvoltage> they had some questions about the changes and why there were so many changes in such a short amount of time
[19:55] <bencrisford> what did you tell them? :P
[19:55] <highvoltage> we explained that we had a long membership queue and that we had long-standing contributors that we reviewed and approved
[19:56] <highvoltage> we also explained that we removed RichEd's EC status since we haven't been able to contact him since he left canonical
[19:56] <highvoltage> (and even some time before that)
[19:56] <highvoltage> we were down to only 2 EC members before that, which isn't optimal at all and makes it hard to set/reach any kind of quorum
[19:56] <highvoltage> EC quorum is supposed to be 3
[19:56] <stgraber> (we actually discussed it face to face with dholbach ;))
[19:57] <highvoltage> so we voted in stgraber as an EC member
[19:57] <highvoltage> but since it's such a relatively big change to such a small team at that stage, the CC would like to review it
[19:57] <LaserJock> so my questions are is there something the CC wants us to do and what about the LP changes we wanted?
[19:57] <highvoltage> so we just need to write some introduction and motivation for stgraber's inclusion so that they can review it
[19:58] <bencrisford> stgraber owns!
[19:58] <stgraber> we also need the CC to change team ownership I guess
[19:58] <highvoltage> LaserJock: dholbach re-iterated much of what he said in his e-mails
[19:58] <highvoltage> LaserJock: he said that he's happy with the renewed energy but that he would like to see more communication with the CC
[19:58] <stgraber> basically having edubuntu-members owned by the edubuntu-council and the edubuntu-council owned by the CC
[19:58] <highvoltage> LaserJock: he said that the CC would also like to see more of our plans and what we intend to do before we do it
[19:59] <stgraber> when is the next CC meeting ?
[19:59] <stgraber> Tue, June 16, 10am – 12pm
[19:59] <stgraber> same day as the TB
[19:59] <stgraber> so we'll need to be around on that day it seems ;)
[19:59] <highvoltage> LaserJock: I told him that we're busy getting a strategy doc in place and that we'd have our plans and intentions clear before the end of june
[19:59] <bencrisford> well i think stgraber owns :)
[19:59] <stgraber> hmm, 10am GMT is going to be a problem ... (for me)
[19:59] <highvoltage> (I know we'll get it way before that but I just wanted to play it safe)
[20:00] <highvoltage> LaserJock: yes, so they agreed with the LP changes
[20:00] <LaserJock> well, I'm not sure I understand what exactly they want from us
[20:00] <highvoltage> LaserJock: we just need to go through the process of presenting it to them so that they can officially rubberstamp it
[20:00] <bencrisford> i have to go, ill be back later
[20:00] <LaserJock> I see
[20:00] <bencrisford> ill read the logs
[20:00] <highvoltage> LaserJock: dholbach also said that we should get our meetings in the ubuntu calender, and submit team reports
[20:01] <LaserJock> right
[20:01] <highvoltage> LaserJock: I explained our situation of the past year and he said that he understands
[20:01] <highvoltage> LaserJock: so they're really not asking much of us, nothing more than we already want to do
[20:01] <LaserJock> alrighty
[20:01] <highvoltage> LaserJock: we just need to communicate more of it formally
[20:02] <highvoltage> I just wanted to bring those details into this meeting so that it's out in the open
[20:02] <highvoltage> stgraber: was there something I left out?
[20:02] <highvoltage> oh yes, there was
[20:02] <highvoltage> dholbach said in one of the e-mails to the EC that the CC would be willing to help us get the EC numbers up if we need help with that
[20:02] <highvoltage> or if we need guidance
[20:03] <LaserJock> k
[20:03] <highvoltage> so we do have some actions:
[20:03] <highvoltage> 1. introduce stgraber to the CC for EC approval (just as a formality)
[20:04] <highvoltage> 2. figure out how we'll do team reporting (maybe something we can do on #edubuntu or the next edubuntu meeting)
[20:04] <highvoltage> 3. present our plans, changes in lp, etc to the CC
[20:05] <highvoltage> what did I leave out...
[20:05] <stgraber> the items for the TB (4 hours after the CC) ;)
[20:05] <stgraber> but for the CC that should be about it
[20:05] <highvoltage> ok
[20:06] <highvoltage> hmm, I see on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda that we don't have a slot there yet
[20:07] <highvoltage> 11:00 UTC isn't always easy for me, but it shouldn't be a problem, at least I know in advance
[20:08] <stgraber> can you add us there ? I'll do my best to be there but that'll be 6am for me and we're not speaking of LaserJock's timezone ;)
[20:08] <stgraber> 11 UTC ? thought I saw 10 UTC
[20:08] <stgraber> ah, ok that's on the wiki. maybe it's the fridge that's broken somewho
[20:08] <stgraber> *somehow
[20:08] <LaserJock> let's see 11 UTC is 4am here
[20:09] <stgraber> 11 UTC is 7am here so a bit easier than 10 UTC, though I'll have to leave to go to the office at 11:30 and will be back online at 11:50 or so
[20:09] <highvoltage> it's a weird time for such a meeting, maybe it's one of those timeslots chosen to be convenient for the asians
[20:09] <highvoltage> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda
[20:10] <stgraber> so if we're at least two around, we should be able to cover the whole meeting :)
[20:10] <highvoltage> we're Item #3 on general. please check.
[20:11] <highvoltage> stgraber: yes, although I think myself and LaserJock (and other edubuntu'ers) should be there to introduce you properly
[20:11] <highvoltage> although I think most people in the CC are already familiar with at least some of your work
[20:11] <LaserJock> as much as possible anyway
[20:11] <stgraber> yeah ;)
[20:12] <LaserJock> we should maybe send out an email to edubuntu-devel or something for both CC and TB so Edubuntu'ers can cheer
[20:12] <highvoltage> inedeed
[20:13] <LaserJock> moving on?
[20:13] <highvoltage> right, we're happy with the CC and TB actions and agendas?
[20:13] <stgraber> [ACTION] send out an email to edubuntu-devel or something for both CC and TB so Edubuntu'ers can cheer
[20:13] <highvoltage> I take the silence as a yes
[20:14] <stgraber> LaserJock: I guess [ACTION] is only available for you :(
[20:14] <LaserJock> [ACTION] send out an email to edubuntu-devel or something for both CC and TB so Edubuntu'ers can cheer
[20:14] <MootBot> ACTION received:  send out an email to edubuntu-devel or something for both CC and TB so Edubuntu'ers can cheer
[20:14] <LaserJock> mwuahahahaha
[20:14]  * LaserJock has the powa!
[20:14] <highvoltage> heh, probably because he initiated the meeting
[20:14] <highvoltage> I think nubae said he couldn't make this meeting
[20:14] <highvoltage> I can't find the mail so he might have said so on IRC
[20:15] <LaserJock> alrighty
[20:15] <highvoltage> anything else?
[20:15] <LaserJock> I'm a tad concerned about getting things moving
[20:15] <LaserJock> so far for Karmic the only thing that I've gotten is a gcompris bug fix from bencrisford
[20:16] <highvoltage> well, we're not moving for technical stuff yet, but I do feel that we are moving in the sense of getting things back together again
[20:16] <highvoltage> the fact that we got a bug fix from bencrisford is great imho
[20:16] <LaserJock> so I think we need to make sure to encourage people to get things moving here
[20:16] <LaserJock> totally
[20:16] <highvoltage> not so much in the bug fix itself, but that we actually have someone new that's contributed
[20:17] <highvoltage> LaserJock: well, we don't have to wait for the strat doc or TB or CC meetings to get moving
[20:17] <LaserJock> exactly
[20:17] <highvoltage> but those things really have to happen
[20:17] <LaserJock> we need that task list things
[20:17] <stgraber> currently I'm mainly focused on fixing LTSP and getting a new version in (quite a lot of upload this week actually) but should then have some time to play with edubuntu
[20:17] <highvoltage> and with my EC hat on those are big prioroties
[20:18] <highvoltage> LaserJock: getting stgraber write access to the seeds would also be good progress imho
[20:18] <highvoltage> LaserJock: it could potentially take lots of load off from you
[20:18] <LaserJock> well
[20:19] <LaserJock> I just need people working on things
[20:19] <LaserJock> I don't have to much of a problem sponsoring things
[20:19] <LaserJock> but I haven't gotten much
[20:19] <sbalneav> Apart from what I outlined earlier, what would you like me to work on?
[20:19] <LaserJock> sbalneav: that sounded like a handful to me
[20:19] <stgraber> I can still work on the changes and branch or propose patches, that's not so hard though it adds someone to the process
[20:20] <sbalneav> Has anyone tried the newer sabayon in my ppa?
[20:20] <highvoltage> LaserJock: understood, I'll have something after monday that I'd like you to sponsor, so you'll have at least some pesting for that
[20:20] <LaserJock> k
[20:20] <LaserJock> I'm more concerned about docs/wiki/website
[20:20] <LaserJock> there's not a ton of packaging work to at least keep us afloat
[20:20] <highvoltage> shall we talk about that briefly before ending the meeting?
[20:21] <LaserJock> but the wiki is in real bad shape in terms of it being so outdated and huge (200+ pages)
[20:21] <stgraber> I can probably have a look at the website as I've done quite a lot of Drupal in the past, we'd just need a todo list for it too and give me access to it
[20:21] <stgraber> so we can at least change what really needs to be changed then find someone else to maintain it
[20:21] <highvoltage> stgraber: ok, will do
[20:21] <LaserJock> what I'd like to see is somebody for each "area" or "domain" to take on a little leadership in terms of defining the needs
[20:21] <stgraber> I won't be able to take care of it all myself but can probably give a hand at improving things until we have someone who really take care of it
[20:21] <highvoltage> I agree with LaserJock about the wiki, that monstrosity of old pages does us more harm than good
[20:22] <stgraber> agreed
[20:23] <LaserJock> maybe we should split stuff up, add our items to the Karmic / Karmic+1 wiki pages and then next meeting we can review them as a group?
[20:23] <stgraber> sounds good
[20:23] <LaserJock> that way no single person has to do everything but *somebody* has a clue what's going on in every area
[20:24] <stgraber> yeah, just having the list would help a lot
[20:24] <highvoltage> ok, so another action is assigning people to areas
[20:24] <stgraber> because otherwise it's things "we know about" but never written down on a wiki page
[20:24] <highvoltage> even if it's just temporary
[20:25] <LaserJock> documentation (wiki and website), packaging (new stuff, maintaining others, fixing upgrade path), dev (implementing the menu stuff), qa (bug triaging and testing) and local participation / promotion (basically giving us feedback and speaking about Edubuntu)
[20:25] <LaserJock> ^^ is what stgraber had
[20:26] <LaserJock> who wants to take what for now?
[20:26] <stgraber> I could work on the dev part (probably with some help from Revolution Linux), testing and the website
[20:26] <LaserJock> i can do packaging
[20:26] <stgraber> and the seeds if you need some help
[20:27] <highvoltage> I could spend some time on QA
[20:27] <stgraber> (working on finding how to upgrade to full-coredev at the moment)
[20:27] <LaserJock> well, let's just start with a temporary thing to define what needs to be done
[20:27] <LaserJock> so we don't commit to a bunch of stuff right this second
[20:28] <LaserJock> highvoltage: you feel like working on promotion/marketing/advocacy?
[20:28] <highvoltage> LaserJock: always \o/
[20:28] <LaserJock> sbalneav: can you do some definition of what needs to be done on documentation?
[20:29] <LaserJock> I can do packaging
[20:30] <highvoltage> stgraber: your drupal user on edubuntu.org now has all admin rights
[20:30] <stgraber> thanks
[20:31] <LaserJock> ok, how about this:
[20:31] <LaserJock> stgraber == qa
[20:31] <LaserJock> LaserJock == packaging
[20:31] <LaserJock> highvoltage == advocacy/marketing
[20:31] <LaserJock> sbalneav == documentation
[20:32] <LaserJock> and then we all work on dev as I think that will require input from a lot of different areas and will be the hardest to define
[20:32] <highvoltage> that can work
[20:32] <stgraber> LaserJock: you can also add the website to my list for now
[20:33] <LaserJock> I don't want to force any commitments or exclude people
[20:34] <LaserJock> I just think it'd be useful for trying to move forward if we have a point-person
[20:34] <highvoltage> yeah I'll still get involved on the QA side
[20:34] <LaserJock> we can rearrange things later as well
[20:34] <LaserJock> I just think we need to really get on the ball for what needs to happen in the next 2 releases, especially Karmic
[20:35] <highvoltage> LaserJock: just keep in mind that the community stuff and sorting ourselves out is also part of getting the ball rolling
[20:35] <LaserJock> I agree
[20:36] <highvoltage> imho we're starting to get good momentum, we just have to channel it into the right places
[20:36] <LaserJock> I just want to get contributors going while the EC is sorting high level things out
[20:36] <highvoltage> *nod*
[20:36] <LaserJock> ok
[20:36] <LaserJock> when's the next meeting?
[20:36] <highvoltage> how does this time work for most people?
[20:37] <highvoltage> nubae couldn't make this one, I don't know if it was a set thing or if it was just today
[20:37] <LaserJock> I think we might need to do some sort of rotation
[20:37] <stgraber> I'd go with one next week so we can make sure everything's ready for the CC and TB meetings
[20:37] <highvoltage> yes
[20:37] <highvoltage> thursday?
[20:38] <highvoltage> (or any other suggestions?)
[20:38] <stgraber> thursday is good, I have something in the evening though but that's hyper late in europe so ...
[20:38] <highvoltage> 15:00 UTC?
[20:38] <LaserJock> looking at the calendar Tuesday is the bad day
[20:39] <LaserJock> Monday and Friday are generally the best
[20:39] <stgraber> 15:00 UTC is fine if it's not more than an hour
[20:39] <highvoltage> monday is a bit soon
[20:39] <LaserJock> looking at the Ubuntu calendar
[20:39] <highvoltage> good idea.
[20:40] <LaserJock> Thursday 15:00UTC
[20:40] <LaserJock> ?
[20:40] <bencrisford> Weekdays im home by at leat 5
[20:40] <bencrisford> lest*
[20:40] <bencrisford> thursday id miss the first  > 45 minutes
[20:41] <bencrisford> is 16:00 UTC not possible?
[20:41] <stgraber> lunch break for me
[20:41] <stgraber> 17:00 UTC would be good though
[20:42] <highvoltage> yes 17:00 UTC is fine for me too
[20:42] <bencrisford> i can do 12:00 UTC, 16:00 UTC, and most times after that
[20:44] <LaserJock> so 17:00 UTC it is
[20:44] <bencrisford> i might miss bits of it
[20:44] <bencrisford> but i can read the logs :)
[20:44] <highvoltage> bencrisford: we'll recap when you join
[20:44] <bencrisford> what did i miss when i was gone just now btw?
[20:44] <bencrisford> highvoltage: ty :)
[20:44] <highvoltage> bencrisford: a lot! for that you'll have to scroll up :)
[20:45] <highvoltage> can we adjourn this meeting?
[20:45] <LaserJock> yes please!
[20:45] <bencrisford> highvoltage: hehe, i came back to find my pidgin icon with a great big 136 by it
[20:45] <stgraber> so that's thursday 17:00 UTC ?
[20:45] <highvoltage> stgraber: yes
[20:45] <stgraber> ok
[20:45] <highvoltage> who will add it to the ubuntu calender?
[20:45] <highvoltage> I don't really dig the whole google calender thing
[20:46] <LaserJock> oh, I can do it
[20:46] <highvoltage> thanks
[20:46] <highvoltage> ok we have +2 for ending the meeting
[20:46] <stgraber> +1
[20:46] <stgraber> sorry ;)
[20:46] <highvoltage> heh, that's a wrap.
[20:46] <highvoltage> *gong*
[20:46] <bencrisford> hehe, action item: end the meeting
[20:46] <LaserJock> #endmeeting
[20:46] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 14:46.
[20:46] <highvoltage> MootBot is not using UTC :/
[20:47] <LaserJock> does anybody feel like doing the meeting minutes?
[20:47] <bencrisford> LaserJock: I will
[20:47] <bencrisford> it will give me a chance to catch up with what i missed
[20:48] <highvoltage> anyway, thanks LaserJock, bencrisford, sbalneav, stgraber and BenoitStandre for attending and contributing
[20:48] <stgraber> bencrisford: do you have the backlog ? otherwise MootBot put all the somewhere on the web with a quick summary of the actions taken during the meeting
[20:48] <stgraber> LaserJock should have received the link when ending the meeting
[20:48] <LaserJock> bencrisford: http://www.novarata.net/mootbot/
[20:48] <stgraber> thanks everyone
[20:49] <LaserJock> hmm, that's not the full log though
[20:49] <highvoltage> in my opinion this was the best edubuntu meeting we had in a very long time, let's keep the momentum up and give LaserJock lots of stuff to sponsor :)
[20:49] <LaserJock> bencrisford: do you have a log of this?
[20:49] <bencrisford> LaserJock: I cant find it
[20:49] <LaserJock> bencrisford: I can send you mine if you like
[20:49] <highvoltage> I have the full irssi log that I can post?
[20:50] <LaserJock> highvoltage: email it to bencrisford ;-)
[20:50] <stgraber> !logs
[20:50] <LaserJock> I really need to get back to the dissertation
[20:51] <highvoltage> ok
[20:51] <stgraber> lacking a few minutes though, should be there soon
[20:51] <bencrisford> stgraber: Oooh, thanks, found em
[20:52] <highvoltage> bencrisford: http://jonathancarter.co.za/files/temp/ubuntu-meeting.log.bz2
[20:52] <bencrisford> highvoltage: You don't have permission to access /files/temp/ubuntu-meeting.log.bz2 on this server.
[20:52] <bencrisford> :(
[20:53] <highvoltage> bencrisford: should be fine now
[20:53] <bencrisford> highvoltage: Thanks :D, it worked :)
[20:54] <highvoltage> ok on to #edubuntu