/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2009/06/05/#ubuntuone.txt

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leoquant!connection08:50
ubottuSorry, I don't know anything about connection08:50
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tcoleGood morning14:41
tcolehow's everyone doing today?14:41
artir\o/14:46
tcolepretty quiet in here15:06
tcoleeveryone still waiting on invites?15:07
tcoleinvite processing should speed up soon, but at present we're still turning the crank very slowly15:07
tcoletrying to avoid scaling too quickly and being the next twitter :)15:07
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gnomefreakinvite?15:22
tcoleinvitations, for the service15:22
gnomefreakoh i didnt think it was needed. Unless the email i got was the invite when it first surfaced15:22
* artir wants access to the API :)15:26
tcolewhich API did you have in mind?15:28
tcole(is what you're looking for not available in the ubuntuone-client package?)15:30
artiri want to do something like15:47
artirimport ubuntuone15:47
artirand after init sth, do self=ubuntuone.get_items()15:48
artirprint self15:48
artiror stuff like that15:48
artiror ubuntuone.push("/home/lol/cheese.png")15:48
lamalexi like that you have a user named lol15:55
artirof course15:55
artirwho doesn't? :P15:55
greg-go/15:56
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artirgreg-g: check your /home16:00
artirthere is a hidden lol user put there by canonical16:00
artirnobody can see it, not even root16:01
artirit's part of their plan to take over the world, nothing bad at all :)16:01
greg-gartir: then how am I supposed to find it? :)16:01
artiryou can't mwahahaha16:02
tcoleso really a simplified wrapper API on top of the raw API16:03
artircanonical will probably release it for the OSCON conference16:04
artirit think16:04
tcolerelease what?16:04
dobeyuhm. well16:10
dobeyubuntuone-storage-protocol /is/ that api16:10
dobeythere will be additional APIs for new services as they are necessary and added, though16:11
tcolewell, it isn't really16:12
tcoleit's not that easy to use16:12
tcolebut it is the raw API16:12
dobeywell, it's not trivial. but ubuntuone.push() could mean a vast number of things for ubuntu one. (and i don't see how for the storage service, it would be any different than just moving a file into the My Files directory)16:13
tcolethat assumes you can run the syncdaemon, or want to16:14
tcoleanyway, anyone can use the API we have now16:15
tcolebut I do maintain that it needs a nicer wrapper on it so it is easier to use16:15
dobeyi really wish fuse wasn't awful16:17
tcoleindeed16:18
tcoleboxbot is terrible16:18
dobeywhat is boxbot?16:19
tcolenobody likes boxbot16:21
tcolehttp://www.gunnerkrigg.com/archive_page.php?comicID=20516:21
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torosI see we have an unshare feature \o/18:55
torosthank you guys!18:55
tcolewe're slowly getting there :)18:59
tcole(and you're welcome)19:00
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sladenwii #ubuntuone20:41
sladenCould somebody assist me in getting a general overview of u1 and how it fits together20:42
sladenThe first thing I'm after are the clear names for the separate componets/layers20:42
sladenRather than just "Ubuntu One"20:43
tcolehm20:47
tcolewell20:47
tcoleUbuntu One is destined to be a suite of services20:47
tcolethe only one currently on offer is the dropbox-like file storage + sharing20:47
tcolebut more are in development20:47
tcolefor the storage service in particular20:47
dobeyi think he's looking for clear definition between "suite of services" and "what those services are"20:48
dobeyie, during the CC meeting, there was lots of confused discussion about "what is the platform" and "what are the services"20:48
dobeybecause they are all "Ubuntu One"20:48
tcolehm, I'm not even sure how to answer that really20:48
tcolethere are several different ways to categorize things depending on what perspective you're coming from20:49
tcoleI mean, as a developer, I know how I'd split up the components/layers20:50
tcolebut that may not be what you're asking?20:50
BUGabundoguud evening20:50
dobeyhi BUGabundo20:51
dobeyBUGabundo: i got the weight conversion backwards. the u820 is about 0.8KG20:51
dobeyKg even20:51
BUGabundoyou know20:52
sladentcole: dobey:  okay, so you specifically mentioned the dropbox-like functionality.  When you're drinking coffee next to the water cooling, how do you verbally refer to that 'corner'20:52
BUGabundoI read it on identica, and already knew you were wrong20:52
BUGabundolol20:52
tcolesladen: storage20:52
dobeysladen: 'storage'20:52
dobeyBUGabundo: i just got it backwards, but eh20:53
sladenwhat a boring name.  (Thank you for the clear answer though).20:53
tcolethe code name was hammertime20:54
sladentcole: that's precisely the answer I'm looking for20:54
tcolewe don't call it that now though20:54
dobeywell, storage is storage20:54
BUGabundoI'm just waiting for the *extra* features20:54
dobeyif we implemented chat, we'd call it chat, not storage :)20:55
BUGabundoright now, I don't see U1 being more then a poor Dropbox clone20:55
sladenit helps to have an arbitary term to refer to 'X' that is not 'X' and therefore would not occur in general conversation when talking the generic implemetnation of Xs20:55
dobeywell, it's 'ubuntu one storage' then20:56
sladenBUGabundo: I don't.  But such confusion occurs when there is only one application, one protocol, one server and one implementatino of each of those20:56
dobeydropbox works ok as 'dropbox' because they only do one service20:56
BUGabundoyep20:56
BUGabundoand they do it darn *good*20:56
tcolewe actually used to have the opposite problem with Launchpad20:56
tcolewe gave everything individual product names20:56
BUGabundoof course they have been longer doing it20:56
dobeyand i remember everyone used to call 'evolution' "ximian" :(20:57
tcoleand then nobody knew what things were20:57
tcoleso eventually it just became Launchpad code, Launchpad bugs, etc...20:57
sladenBUGabundo: if you think back to the introduction of "remixes" for Ubuntu diverivatives, lots of people (journalists) got confused and saw 'remix' as the brandname for the first example (Netbook _Remix_) because there was only one20:57
sladentcole: dobey: I've filed several bugs at  https://launchpad.net/ubunet/  because that's where I came across the first bug report20:58
sladenwhich "bit" is 'ubunet'20:58
tcolethat's a private project for backend stuff basically20:59
BUGabundosladen: yeah I remember that20:59
dobeyubunet is the server and is only temporarily ubunet. we'll be renaming it soon20:59
tcoleany user-visible things are associated with ubuntuone-client, including the web UI20:59
BUGabundobut ppl do mixed up OS with Distro too... but that OT here20:59
sladentcole: so ubunet is the implementation of a $something server20:59
tcolewell, no20:59
dobeyBUGabundo: yes, people just say 'that linux thang' and have no idea which distro they mean20:59
BUGabundosladen: I have the same prob! I'm not sure what is what, and where to file bug for each20:59
tcoleit's really a blanket for all the backend stuff for all the services21:00
BUGabundodobey: they say "that DOS thingy"21:00
sladentcole: is ubunet the project?21:00
* BUGabundo we need a *good* FAQ21:00
dobeyBUGabundo: mostly i just see people say 'microsoft' when referring to any product of theirs21:00
Chipacasladen: ubunet was the "we need to start working on this, call it something until the Name is Decided"21:00
dobeyBUGabundo: FAQs don't help because nobody actually reads them.21:00
sladenBUGabundo: yeah, it's been 2.5 weeks, so that's what I'm trying to undertake in a roundabout way.  Which is why I'm in here asking dumb(tm) questions21:01
dobeysladen: ubuntuone is the project. it is the parent project for all the related projects21:01
BUGabundoor Windows! anything is windows... oh and Internet is IE.... just lan or any app using the "internet" is not net! :\\21:01
dobeysladen: ie, http://launchpad.net/ubuntuone21:01
BUGabundodobey: 3rd thing I read....21:01
BUGabundo1st is site look, 2nd about, 3rd FAQ21:01
dobeyBUGabundo: well, yes. you. but 1/6bln isn't very much :)21:02
BUGabundosladen: no question is dumb... only answers21:02
BUGabundodobey: ehehehh21:02
dobeybrb, need to reboot... hal has gone crazy again and won't open the pod bay doors21:03
sladendobey: tcole: so (although it does contradict the statement above), 'ubunet' is what I would have to replicate if I wished to use a completely Free stack21:03
BUGabundomieszkoslusarczyk: Pity there is no kde client for ubuntuone.21:03
BUGabundomieszkoslusarczyk: But I think It'll be easier to create one for ubuntuone;)21:03
sladendobey: tcole: eg. everything that is internal/proprietary is contained with the perimeter of 'ubunet'21:04
sladendobey: tcole: or perhaps another way to phrase that.  What is the command that is run to start a daemon listening for incoming $somthing requests21:05
tcolesladen: ubunet corresponds pretty well to the proprietary bits21:05
tcolein terms of LP projects, ubuntuone is the umbrella project, with ubunet, ubuntuone-client and ubuntuone-storage-protocol as subprojects21:06
sladenBUGabundo: if I understand it, There is _not_ a GNOME client for 'storage' (hammertime?), there is a _Nautilus_ client21:06
tcoleno, not really21:07
sladenBUGabundo: and there could be a fuse client, etc?21:07
tcolethe client is just a user daemon which watches a folder21:07
tcoleit exposes a dbus interface which a nautilus extension interacts with21:07
tcolebut you don't need to run nautilus to use it21:07
tcole(there are some Gnome dependencies like gnome-keyring at the moment though)21:07
tcolewe actually did implement a fuse client21:08
tcoleit was a disaster21:08
BUGabundotcole: aah21:08
BUGabundowhy ?21:08
sladentcole: that's good to know, it demonstrates it's not quite single-implemtnation21:08
tcoleseveral different reasons, but performance and stability21:08
tcolesladen: in addition to the syncdaemon, we do also ship a very simple/stupid commandline client21:08
sladenwhich bit(s) in the current stack was "the fuse client" equivalent to?21:09
tcolesladen: which works a bit differently than the daemon21:09
tcolethe syncdaemon replaced the fuse client21:09
sladentcole: funky, hadn't spotted that (I'm trying to analyse this without actually being able to use it---I can't agree to the T&C for the beta)21:09
tcoleanyway, the two clients we currently ship are the syncdaemon and u1sync21:10
dobeyi don't know that i would call syncdaemon and fuse filesystem equivilent21:10
tcolesladen: you should be able to grab the packages/source from the ubuntuone-client project without worrying about the beta T&C21:10
sladendid it have a name at the time it existed/was a disaster21:10
tcolesladen: those bits are simply AGPL, IIRC21:10
tcolesladen: storagefs21:10
sladentcole: yeah, those bits are fine/clean/etc21:10
tcolesladen: well, ubuntuone-storagefs; we didn't want to pollute the fs name namespace21:11
tcolesladen: but we just called it "storagefs"21:11
tcolesladen: you can tell we are very creative with names :)21:11
sladenthe generic names (to me with my developer mind) make it quite hard to know what the scope is21:12
BUGabundo4 more invites sent! I'm rolling tonight21:12
sladenit's like trying to hammer home "Ubuntu 9.10"... people don't, they refer to Karmic21:12
dobeythe scope of a storagefs is not contacts... seems pretty simple to me :) storage == storage21:12
* BUGabundo calls 8.10 ibex... interpid is just too long21:12
sladendobey: so it's actually  u1-plugin-storage  and u1-plugin-storage-nautilus ?21:13
dobeywe don't have plug-ins no21:13
dobeywell the nautilus bits are a nautilus extension, so that's a plug-in to nautilus21:14
sladenstoage is an /optional/ addition to the $something API/database/wire setup?21:14
dobeystorage is a service which you may optionally subscribe to21:14
sladen'storage' is a service which presents a DBus API on one side, and which does magic $something on the other?21:15
dobeythere's not really any other api/db/wire bits at the moment21:15
dobeysladen: it's not magic. it uses ubuntuone-storage-protocol which is AGPLv321:15
dobeysladen: it uses google protocol buffers to implement the wire protocol for storage21:16
sladenwoohoo!21:16
sladenlet me go and research what those are21:16
tcolethe dbus API is just for controlling the syncdaemon21:17
tcolethe syncdaemon itself is the actual client21:17
tcoleand of course u1sync is the other client we ship21:17
BUGabundodobey: optionally? but rigt now U1 is just that: storage21:17
tcolethat will change21:17
dobeyBUGabundo: yes, and it is optional21:17
tcoleI mean, we will have more than just storage21:18
dobeyBUGabundo: you are in no way obligated to subscribe to the storage service21:18
BUGabundogoogle protocol buffers ? 1st time I heard that21:18
BUGabundotcole: I know that! if you read a bit back, I said im waiting on the rest!21:18
sladenhttp://code.google.com/apis/protocolbuffers/docs/overview.html  <-- for anyone listening to the scroll21:18
BUGabundodobey: so currently what would I have wihtout storage?21:18
dobeyBUGabundo: an account that doesn't do anything for you :)21:19
BUGabundoahahaha21:19
dobeyBUGabundo: assuming you log in to ubuntuone.com anyway21:19
BUGabundoyeah that's what I though21:19
BUGabundotcole: dobey so what is the timeframe for the so mentioned changes?21:19
tcolesladen: something we need to do soon is document the *semantics* of the protocol buffer messages; at present you pretty much have to look at one of the existing open source clients to see that21:19
dobeyBUGabundo: but it's still entirely optional, whether or not it actually provides any utility to you :)21:20
BUGabundodobey: :)21:20
sladentcole: yeah, we're getting to the stage where I can go and read the code effectively without banging my head against a wall wanting a high-level overview21:21
tcoleI'd probably say that u1sync is easier to understand than syncdaemon21:21
tcolethough I'm a little nervous saying that21:21
tcolebecause u1sync is something I basically threw together over a weekend21:22
tcolenot great code21:22
sladendobey: tcole: so the wire-protocol is application specific Google protocol serialisations updating an object database using REST over HTTPS?21:23
tcoleminus the REST part21:23
sladentcole: next time, write two demo clients, it's solve 95% of the confusion ;-)21:23
BUGabundoLOL21:24
sladentcole: since you'll be forced to give them different names otherwise they both won't compile!21:24
tcolein all seriousness, I may do more, time permitting21:24
tcolebut not for that reason21:24
sladenjoking aside, it's not REST.  Are the references to REST that is is RESTful in style?21:25
sladentcole: u1sync is the command lline tool (correct)21:25
sladen?21:25
tcolecorrect21:26
tcoleI'm not sure where the REST references are coming from21:26
tcolethe storage protocol is fairly stateful21:26
tcolenow21:27
tcolewe do have a "structured storage" thing in progress21:27
dobeywhat REST references?21:27
tcolewhich is based on CouchDB21:27
tcoleand that does do RESTy things21:27
tcolebut that is distinct from "file storage"21:27
tcolewhich is what we have out there now21:27
sladendobey: no idea, I've come across them somewhere.21:30
sladendobey: probably Chinese whispers21:30
sladenand CoudchDB is this thing that requires installing 45MB of erlang21:31
tcoleyep21:31
tcoleneedless to say that didn't fly very well with the distro folks, who are rather scarce for space on the CD :)21:31
tcoleso we are working on fixing that whole 45MB of erlang part if we can21:31
tcoleI am not closely involved with that part of things though21:32
sladentcole: CouchDB is talked to over a JSON/HTTP interface.  What is it that is doing the talking?21:34
tcoleI think it's a CouchDB running locally21:35
sladenI presume there's an instance of CouchDB running (once?) per machine and once again one the server end21:35
tcolebut I don't work on that service right now, and it hasn't been released yet21:35
tcolesomething along those lines21:35
sladenconfused.  is CouchDB actually in use at this point in time?21:36
dobeynot in ubuntuone yet21:36
sladenif it's not, I can completely ignore as it doesn't reflect what's there at the moment, only vague future vapourware21:36
dobeyand it will be couchdb-per-user21:36
BUGabundook now you guys went to a too geeky point21:42
BUGabundoI can't keep up21:42
kklimonda:)21:43
tcolesladen: right, vapourware and lies :)21:50
dobeyheh21:53
Chipacasladen: u1sdtool is also the command line tool21:56
Chipacasladen: in fact, I wouldn't call u1sync the commandline tool :)21:56
tcoleu1sdtool is a CLI way to interact with syncdaemon via dbus21:56
tcoleit is a commandline tool21:56
Chipacayes21:56
tcolebut it is not a commandline client21:56
tcolesyncdaemon and u1sync are the two clients21:56
Chipacaright21:56
Chipacasorry if I read the wrong half of the conversation :)21:57
sladenu1sync is the commandline sync client;  u1sdtool is the commandline control interface.  syncdaemon is the daemon?22:01
sladenwhich is the nautilus plugin client?22:01
tcolesyncdaemon doesn't have anything to do with nautilus22:02
tcolealthough there is a nautilus extension which can talk to it22:02
sladenwhich is the nautilus _extension_ that can talk to syncdaemon22:02
tcoleu1sync is a minimal commandline client, syncdaemon is a full-featured client which runs as a background daemon22:02
sladenoh22:03
sladenclients of *what*?22:03
tcoleu1sdtool is a commandline control interface for syncdaemon, there is also a gnome panel applet which controls syncdaemon, as well as a nautilus extension22:03
tcolethe storage service22:03
tcolefile storage service22:03
BUGabundotcole: aren't you tired of exlaing it over and over?22:03
BUGabundowrite a FAQ instead22:03
BUGabundoeheh22:03
sladenBUGabundo: I'm trying.22:03
tcolesladen's already doing that, which is why he's asking me22:04
BUGabundoahhhhhhhhhhhhh22:05
BUGabundogreat22:05
tcolenot that I have an objection to writing a FAQ myself, but seeing as he's already started22:05
tcoleI won't steal his thunder :)22:05
sladenBUGabundo: since that's the only way myself and other people are going to understand "it".  Understanding "it" (and being able to effectively talk and point and the specific areas) is hopefully the stepping stone to enabling proper discussion about any wider issues22:06
BUGabundohumm22:06
BUGabundothis will be a _nice_ FAQ long22:06
BUGabundofrom a POV of a user22:06
BUGabundolots of user assumptions22:06
sladenso u1tool == ncftp and syncdaemon == rsync.  Both connect straight out to   someserver.ubuntuone.com  without passing Go! and without collecting 200 GBP22:10
tcolehm, not really quite22:10
tcoleu1sync is a little bit like s3sync22:10
tcolesyncdaemon is like the dropbox daemon22:10
tcolethey both connect to (right now) fs-1.ubuntuone.com22:11
tcoleand speak the protocol defined by the stuff in the ubuntuone-storage-protocol package22:11
tcoleu1sdtool, the gnome panel applet, and the nautilus extension are just control interfaces for syncdaemon22:12
tcoledoes that make sense?22:12
tcolewill you be putting the FAQ on the Ubuntu wiki?22:13
tcolewe have a page here already which is rather unenlightening -> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOne22:13
sladenhttp://s3.amazonaws.com/ServEdge_pub/s3sync/README.txt  <-- for anyone following the scroll22:13
tcoleu1sync is a little different to s3sync in several respects, one of them is that you have a separate "init" step, a bit like "bzr init" or something22:14
tcolebasically associating a local directory with some directory tree on the server22:14
tcoleafter which u1sync in that directory does a sync without needing any arguments22:14
sladenand that relationship is recorded by a hidden file/uuid linking those?22:14
tcoleyep22:15
sladencunning guess.  What's the name of this file?22:15
tcolewell, it's a directory22:15
tcole.ubuntuone-sync22:15
sladenso the directory is called  12341234-1234-1234-a-ba-234?22:15
tcolethe directory has a number of individual files under it22:16
tcolewhich contain things like the root UUID, the path, and so on, of the subtree you are mirroring22:16
sladenSo at the moment, a user ends up with   ~/Desktop/Ubuntu One/{myfile{1,2,3},.ubuntu-sync/*}22:16
tcoleno, the syncdaemon operates very differently22:17
tcoleu1sync is basically for "checking out" a copy of your files in a place separate from where the syncdaemon works (or would work -- you can opt not to use it)22:17
sladenso that _one_ instance of  '.ubuntuone-sync/'  lives at  ~/.ubuntuone-sync/22:17
BUGabundotcole: dobey: so what is the timeline for the so called new _features_ other then storage?22:17
tcolenope22:17
dobeyBUGabundo: when they're ready. :)22:17
BUGabundocome on!!22:17
sladenBUGabundo: shhhh.22:18
tcoleu1sync puts .ubuntuone-sync in a the directory you initialized for use with it22:18
BUGabundodon't do that to me again22:18
dobeyBUGabundo: but we are working on them to get stuff deployed asap, because there are things we want working in karmic22:18
tcolewe don't really like to go into details about unreleased stuff becuase it confuses people (as sladen rightly pointed out)22:18
dobeyu1sync behaves sort of like a vcs in respect to how it functions22:18
tcoleand also until it's actually released and people have the client source code it's all lies anyway :)22:18
BUGabundotcole: I can't confuse me22:18
BUGabundoAHAHAH22:18
BUGabundoI'm an alpha tester22:19
tcolesladen: .ubuntuone-sync is a lot like the .bzr directory that bzr creates in a checked-out tree22:19
BUGabundoI run cutting edge on anything, and am more the used to stuff changing without notice22:19
tcolesladen: the syncdaemon works very differently, and keeps all its metadata under ~/.cache/ubuntuone22:19
sladenso stuff checked out with u1sync is not compatible with syncdaemon  (I would instead have to use u1sdtool to direct syncdaemon to undertake the action(s))22:20
* BUGabundo is being ignored .... 22:21
tcolesladen: that's the simple version yes22:21
sladenu1sync is roughly   bzr init || bzr clone || bzr push22:21
sladens/||/xor/22:22
tcolesladen: kind of22:22
sladenBUGabundo: okay, I'll ask you a couple of question as you've got more hands on experience than me22:23
sladenBUGabundo: can you describe what "Ubuntu One" is in less than 10 words22:23
tcoleBUGabundo: I'm trying not to ignore anyone, but I'm not sure what else to say and I have limited brain22:23
sladenBUGabundo: because I can't, yet22:23
BUGabundook sladen22:24
tcolebest I can do: Ubuntu One is online services. Just file storage to start.22:24
tcole(10 words)22:24
dobeysladen: i can, but i don't think you'll accept my ingenuity with it :)22:24
BUGabundoU1 is a Cloud implementation, providing right now Free and Paid Online Storage, to Ubuntu GNU/Linux Distro22:25
tcoleI think maybe cloud is misleading22:25
BUGabundodobey: please tell us22:25
kklimondaBUGabundo: it's at least 14 words ;)22:25
dobeycloud is a silly buzzword22:25
tcolebecause then people start imagining we're offering an EC2 clone or something22:25
dobeyBUGabundo: 1 word: awesome22:25
sladenBUGabundo: what's a cloud?22:25
dobey:)22:25
tcole(which I keep getting asked about!)22:25
BUGabundodobey: I know. that's why I used it22:25
BUGabundoits like Web 2.0 duh22:25
dobeysladen: the giant grey things hovering over my city at the moment22:25
BUGabundodobey: LOL22:26
BUGabundosladen: providing web services for data22:26
tcolehm22:26
sladendobey: duded, I didn't realise those bits had names, I thought it was all just "One Sky" ;-)22:26
dobeycloud has nothing to do with services22:26
tcolehave we ever said anything about web services?22:26
tcolein this entire discussion?22:26
dobeycloud is just a stupid term that means "internet"22:26
BUGabundosladen: dobey: isn't that on cities: SM>OG?22:27
BUGabundo*SMOG22:27
tcolewell, maybe "abstracted server farm over the internet"22:27
tcolebut a lot of people do just mean "vaguely internet somehow" by it22:27
dobeyBUGabundo: smog doesn't produce rain. it just produces bad air22:27
BUGabundodobey: Cloud: is Remote... no need for internet22:27
tcoleactually smog particles can nucleate raindrops22:27
kklimondatcole: do they breed new servers on this farm? ;)22:27
tcolesure22:28
tcolewe have an entire division at Canonical dedicated to server husbandry22:28
sladenI'm hoping it's a "remote-access secure object storage database"22:28
sladenI'm hoping it's a "remote-access secure object storage database over Google buffers"22:29
tcolewhat we currently offer is file-based rather than object-based22:29
tcoleat least as an abstraction22:29
sladenanyway.  I don't think anyway succedded.  nil point all around22:29
tcolethe implementation behind the scenes looks a bit different22:29
BUGabundotcole: come on... raise the curfue a bit, and let me know what you guys have in store22:30
sladentcole: ooooh.  So the far end is nothing more than an directory and you could run the rest over FTP, or WebDav?22:30
sladenBUGabundo: I doubt they know.22:30
BUGabundoFF intregration? mail intregration (does anyone need that?), contacts ?22:30
tcolesladen: it's (sadly?) more complicated than that by far22:30
tcolesladen: but we have discussed the possibility of offering a WebDAV view into the storage22:31
sladentcole: it's more complicated because it's versioned?22:31
kklimondaBUGabundo: first we need a decent mail client ;}22:31
sladentcole: or because it's abstracted22:31
sladentcole: or because it's structured?22:31
tcoleversioning will be an issue eventually22:31
tcolebut that's not something we expose right now22:32
sladenwhat makes (at this point in time) it more complicated than an FTP directory?22:32
BUGabundosladen: Versinaged!!?!!?!?!?!22:32
tcoleprincipally the sharing stuff22:32
BUGabundoKEYWORD alert!22:32
dobeyBUGabundo: relax man22:32
BUGabundodamn ... "eventually"22:32
BUGabundodobey: :))22:33
sladentcole: with regard to the platform only (not any storage/syncdaemons running over the top), what makes the platform more complicate than an FTP directory with ACLs22:34
tcolefrom whose point of view?22:34
tcoleI guess one major difference is push notifications of changes22:34
tcolewhen a client connects, you are given the UUID of the root node of your storage, as well as the roots of any shares available to you22:35
sladentcole: so at the start of the session, I login, subscribe to a bunch of stuff, and then get proactively poked when something gets updated (which if there is only one user accessing at a time, means never)22:35
tcoleyes, that's about right22:35
tcoleminus the subscription part22:36
tcoleyou get poked about anything you have access to22:36
sladenahhhh22:36
BUGabundotalking about UUIDs22:36
BUGabundowhen are the Computer names getting improved?22:36
sladenso I can DOS the system just by offering 10 million public shares and writing a string of 1-byte updates that than get amplified and PUSHed to every single connected user?22:37
BUGabundoLOLOL22:37
BUGabundosladen: I'm very close to that22:37
BUGabundoI have a shared folder with an HUGE amount of users22:38
dobeyBUGabundo: nowhere near 10 million. you probably have ~10022:38
BUGabundotcole: dobey: care to run a count on the DB on that folder?22:38
BUGabundoI'm to lazy to count them by hand22:38
dobeywe don't have access to the db22:38
BUGabundoyou don't?22:38
sladenBUGabundo: don't try it, it's probably against the T&C.  And remember, you agreed to cover all costs related to your use, or misuse of the server when you subscribed22:38
BUGabundoso how does?22:38
BUGabundosladen: I already did22:38
BUGabundoU1 died on me22:38
BUGabundohad to user Web to fix it22:38
BUGabundolet me put a 1GiB file on that folder22:39
BUGabundoLOL22:39
sladenBUGabundo: the local syncdaemon client died?  Or the remote FTP^W ubunet instance?22:39
dobeysladen: well you probably can DOS that way, but you will also probably very quickly get banned as well. just the same as if i constantly sent 1 byte e-mails to 10 million users through your smtp relay22:39
BUGabundo:~/Ubuntu One/My Files/bla$ touch dobey_see_this.txt22:39
dobeysladen: the server didn't die22:40
BUGabundohumm can't connect22:40
BUGabundodamn22:40
BUGabundoyou guys are blocking me alread :))22:40
tcolesladen: only the users who are have accepted the shares will get notifications22:40
dobeyat least, i don't think it died22:40
sladenBUGabundo: not yet22:40
BUGabundorestarting22:40
BUGabundohumm it won't open22:41
BUGabundoLOLOL22:41
BUGabundohow can I start it from CLI and debug this further?22:41
tcoleanywa, regarding computer names22:41
sladentcole: so you can offer/invite shares to anyway, but they do ultimately have to accept/subscribe22:41
tcolesladen: yes22:41
sladentcole: if they don't do that subscription at login, when does it happen22:41
tcolethat process happens via email right now22:41
tcoleyou get an email, click on the link, accept the share or no22:42
tcoleeventually the plan is to have gnome UI for that as well22:42
tcoleand probably some kind of (non-intrusive) notification setup22:42
dobeyyeah, the server isn't down afaict22:42
tcoleregarding computer names, there are two pieces to it22:42
dobeyBUGabundo: you can just look at the logs in ~/.cache/ubuntuone/log/22:43
tcoleone, the clients currently do not communicate the computer name to the server when registering22:43
BUGabundodobey: and how can I start it ?22:43
sladendoes syncdaemon communicate the cookie (delivered in the email) to ubunet, or does Firefox communicate the cookie (delivered by email) to the ubunet webservice by normal HTTP request?22:44
tcoleand I think the second thing is for the server to put the hostname in the description field for the token rather than a UUID22:44
tcolesladen: that part is all HTTP22:44
dobeyBUGabundo: start what? the logs already have data. getting the same log info over and over again isn't going to actually give you any more data... just take up more bytes on the disk :)22:44
BUGabundotoo many logs for me22:44
tcolesladen: there are facilities to list and accept/decline shares via the protocol though22:44
tcolesladen: you can use them via u1sdtool or even u1sync22:44
dobeyBUGabundo: syncdaemon.log is probably what you care about22:44
BUGabundooh its just dates22:44
tcolethough I'm not sure I've added accepting/declining to u1sync yet22:44
BUGabundoits empty22:45
BUGabundoall of them are22:45
BUGabundozero byts22:45
BUGabundoexcept oauth-login.log22:45
dobeytcole: for computer names, i think we can already handle it on the server (and i thought the client was changed at the same time to send it, but perhaps it wasn't)22:45
tcolethe last I checked, the clients were still only sending UUIDs22:46
dobeyBUGabundo: eh? what does running ubuntuone-syncdaemon say then?22:46
BUGabundo$ ubuntuone-syncdaemon22:46
BUGabundoTraceback (most recent call last):22:46
BUGabundo  File "/usr/bin/ubuntuone-syncdaemon", line 33, in <module>22:46
BUGabundo    from canonical.ubuntuone.storage.syncdaemon import dbus_interface22:46
BUGabundo  File "/usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/canonical/ubuntuone/storage/syncdaemon/dbus_interface.py", line 21, in <module>22:46
BUGabundo    from canonical.ubuntuone.storage.syncdaemon.event_queue import EVENTS22:46
BUGabundo  File "/usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/canonical/ubuntuone/storage/syncdaemon/event_queue.py", line 100, in <module>22:46
BUGabundo    evtcodes.IN_CLOSE_WRITE: 'FS_FILE_CLOSE_WRITE',22:46
BUGabundoAttributeError: type object 'EventsCodes' has no attribute 'IN_CLOSE_WRITE'22:46
tcoleoh, FFFFFUUUUU22:46
BUGabundohumm should have pastebin that22:46
dobeytcole: well, actually the client doesn't send anything for that. it's just the oauth access token wheich we gte from the server anyway22:46
tcoleI just got that22:46
dobeyBUGabundo: oh that.22:46
tcoleafter upgrading22:46
tcoleand syncdaemon doesn't start22:46
BUGabundotcole: yep22:47
dobeyBUGabundo: there is an update in the works (i think it's in nightlies already)22:47
kklimondaweird..22:47
dobeyit's because pyinotify broke stuff in 0.8 which is now in karmic22:47
BUGabundocan/should I downgrade?22:47
BUGabundoI would like to DOS ^W use U1 again22:47
tcoleI'm afraid I need to head out for a little bit22:47
dobeyyou can downgrade pyinotify maybe22:47
dobeyor just install the r37 package from the nightlies22:48
sladentcole: ta for now22:48
tcolesladen: where's the FAQ going again, out of curiosity?22:48
dobeyerr22:48
dobeyr38 i mean22:48
sladentcole: oh, somewhere on wiki.ubuntu.com22:48
tcoleok, cool22:49
sladentcole: it's currently in a local copy of emacs22:49
* tcole nods22:49
sladentcole: or rather it isn't.  My shorthand notes are22:49
sladenthekorn: and some jottings in Inkscape22:49
BUGabundodobey: lp branch link please22:50
BUGabundoI'll get trunk22:50
dobeylp:ubuntuone-client22:50
tcolesladen: ok, be sure to link it from the UbuntuOne page on the wiki when you put it up22:50
sladentcole: just as soon as ubuntuone.com is sure to link to ubuntu.com22:50
tcole?22:51
sladen(I support "read the FAQ ---> here" would kind of force that ;-)22:51
sladens/support/suppose/22:51
BUGabundodobey: branching now22:51
tcolethat came up actually22:52
BUGabundodobey:  sudo python setup.py install next?22:52
tcolewe're going to be making some changes so that there are clearer links to Ubuntu proper generally22:52
tcoleas far as our web presence goes22:52
sladentcole: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubunet/+bug/376130 "Webservice does not link to Ubuntu.com"22:52
ubottuLaunchpad bug 376130 in ubunet "Webservice does not link to Ubuntu.com" [Low,Triaged]22:53
* tcole nods22:53
dobeyBUGabundo: i don't know that installing into your system from trunk would be a particularly wise idea, no22:53
dobeyBUGabundo: and in any case, you need to do ./setup.py build first22:54
BUGabundo$ ./setup.py22:54
BUGabundousage: setup.py [global_opts] cmd1 [cmd1_opts] [cmd2 [cmd2_opts] ...]22:54
BUGabundoerror: no commands supplied22:54
BUGabundoerror: invalid command 'first'22:55
BUGabundoLOLOL22:55
BUGabundofirst is not  the command22:55
BUGabundoehjehe22:55
BUGabundo__main__.NotFoundError: You need icontool to generate the icons for Ubuntu One.22:55
BUGabundo  File "./setup.py", line 209, in <module>22:55
dobeyand you need to install icontool :)22:55
dobeyit's in the ubuntu one beta ppa22:55
tcoleI depart now22:56
tcolebbl22:56
sladenBUGabundo: I tend to find that if you stick to building packaged versioned, it's alot easier to hop around test versions, to know that any mess has been cleanly installed and to fetch new depends when they are introducted/revved22:56
dobeylikewise, i'm out as well22:56
BUGabundoGet:1 https://private-ppa.launchpad.net jaunty/main icontool 0.1.0-0 [10.3kB]22:57
BUGabundoohh22:57
sladentcole: dobey: special appreciations to both of you for your time22:57
BUGabundodon't leave me just yet22:57
BUGabundogenerating icons22:57
BUGabundosh: inkscape: not found22:57
sladenBUGabundo: sudo apt-get builddep $thingy22:57
sladenBUGabundo: otherwise  sudo apt-get install inkscape22:58
BUGabundo~$ sudo apt-get build-dep ubuntuone-client22:58
BUGabundoThe following NEW packages will be installed:22:59
BUGabundo  inkscape libwmf-bin python-all python-all-dev python-dev python-lxml python-renderpm python-reportlab  python-reportlab-accel python-uniconvertor python2.5 python2.5-dev python2.6-dev22:59
BUGabundo$ ubuntuone-syncdaemon22:59
BUGabundoTraceback (most recent call last):  File "/usr/local/bin/ubuntuone-syncdaemon", line 33, in <module>22:59
BUGabundoso trunk doesn't fix it for me22:59
tcoleI'm back for a minute23:12
tcolethat's distressing23:12
tcoleKarmic-specific breakage as far as I can tell, but we need to get it sorted out23:13
tcoleBUGabundo: ping23:13
BUGabundopong23:13
tcolehmm23:13
BUGabundotcole: ok. I'll wait for tomorows batch of updates23:13
tcole/usr/*local*/bin/ubuntuone-syncdaemon?23:13
tcolewhy do you have a syncdaemon in /usr/local?23:14
BUGabundohumm python setup ?23:14
tcoleah23:14
tcoleI think what dobey meant was for you to build the .debs install thouse23:14
BUGabundoinstalling from trunk23:14
tcolenot sure he explained that well23:14
BUGabundoto get R3823:14
tcoleyes, you can do that from trunk23:14
BUGabundohe didn'ti do this all the time with gwibber23:15
BUGabundoalias gwibberbzr='cd /tmp/;bzr branch lp:gwibber;cd gwibber; sudo python setup.py install'23:15
tcolehm23:15
tcolewell, it is going to be a problem that you have a version of the client in /usr and a version in /usr/local23:15
tcoleI think what's happening here is that you're getting a mixture23:15
BUGabundolet me purge it all23:16
tcolemost likely (with the python changes in Karmic particularly), you're getting the syncdaemon from /usr/local/bin and the libraries from /usr/lib23:16
BUGabundo$ sudo apt-get remove --purge ubuntuone-*23:16
BUGabundoNote, selecting ubuntuone-ppa-beta for regex 'ubuntuone-*'23:16
BUGabundothere goes the PPA info23:17
BUGabundolol23:17
sladenBUGabundo: what's gwibber?23:22
tcolegwibber is a Gnome twitter client thingy23:23
BUGabundotcole: FAIL23:23
BUGabundoGwibber is Social Network and µblog client23:23
tcoleBUGabundo: I wouldn't expect it to work now that you've purged ubuntuone-client-protocol....23:23
BUGabundoit support many more services then just twitter23:24
BUGabundowhich is Close Source btw23:24
BUGabundotcole: I doesn't23:24
tcoleisn't that what apt-get remove --purge ubuntuone-* did?23:24
BUGabundo$ ubuntuone-syncdaemon23:24
BUGabundoTraceback (most recent call last):23:24
BUGabundo  File "/usr/local/bin/ubuntuone-syncdaemon", line 32, in <module>23:24
BUGabundo    from canonical.ubuntuone.storage.syncdaemon import logger23:24
BUGabundoImportError: No module named canonical.ubuntuone.storage.syncdaemon23:24
BUGabundos/I/it/23:24
tcoleyeah... python doesn't look in /usr/local most of the time23:24
tcolewhat I had meant for you to do was to purge the copy from /usr/local23:25
tcoleinstall the regular packages23:25
dobeyor run it from the tree23:26
tcoleand then use debuild to build a new client package and install that23:26
* tcole finishes doing just that23:26
BUGabundowait23:26
BUGabundocalm down23:26
tcoleTraceback (most recent call last):23:26
tcole  File "/usr/bin/ubuntuone-syncdaemon", line 36, in <module>23:26
tcole    from configglue import configglue23:26
tcoleImportError: No module named configglue23:26
tcoleargh23:26
tcole...dobey, am I the only developer on Karmic right now?23:26
BUGabundoahaha23:26
BUGabundoLOLOLOL23:27
sladencat ubuntuone-storage-protocol/README   ho ho ho23:27
dobeytcole: i have karmic on my laptop23:27
dobeytcole: i don't know why you're missing configglue though23:27
BUGabundotcole: what do I need to rm -rf from /usr/local/ ?23:27
tcolesladen: oh my.  I'm glad not personally responsible for that one23:27
tcoleBUGabundo: hm, do a find /usr/local -name '*ubuntuone*'23:28
tcoleBUGabundo: as long as that doesn't turn up anything that obviously shouldn't be deleted, do:23:28
BUGabundotcole: $ find /usr/local -name '*ubuntuone*' | pastebinit  http://paste.ubuntu.com/189287/23:29
tcolefind /usr/local -name '*ubuntuone*' -exec rm -rf {} \;23:29
tcoleok, that should all go23:29
BUGabundofind: `/usr/local/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/canonical/ubuntuone': No such file or directory23:29
tcolealso nuke /usr/local/bin/u1sync and /usr/local/bin/u1sdtool23:29
tcoleoh, right, I'm an idiot23:30
tcolefind is doing preorder traversal23:30
BUGabundodone23:30
tcoleand rm -r is removing stuff before it gets to it23:30
tcoleanyway, now try installing the client package bits again23:30
BUGabundohumm ?23:30
BUGabundotrunk and then build?23:31
tcolethe actual PPA packages23:31
BUGabundoor from PPA?23:31
BUGabundook23:31
dobeywell install ubuntuone-storage-protocol from PPA23:31
BUGabundolet me see if I still have them23:31
dobeyand then run the syncdaemon from the source tree23:31
dobeylike "PYTHONPATH=`pwd` ./bin/ubuntuone-syncdaemon'23:31
BUGabundoyeah, as I though23:31
dobeys/'$/"/23:31
BUGabundothe PPA info was removed by --purge23:31
tcolesladen: regarding the protocol README, what would be good to put there?  I'm thinking a brief overview of the protocol at least23:32
dobeyyes of course23:32
dobeytcole: probably info about building/installing it, and what it is23:32
BUGabundoso I need to go to the web site and install again?23:32
dobeythat's what tends to go in a README anyway23:32
BUGabundosladen: want to do a wiki on installing from trunk too ?23:32
dobeyBUGabundo: well you need to add the PPA again23:32
dobeyBUGabundo: you can do via the web page, or the launchpad ppa web page23:32
tcoleyeah, let me do a branch to fix that README, it's embarassing23:33
BUGabundoadding PPA now23:33
BUGabundostill getting jaunty deb23:34
BUGabundowhen will karmic ones be released?23:34
BUGabundooh wait I asked that just this week23:34
BUGabundonvm then23:34
BUGabundo$ sudo aptitude install ubuntuone-storage-protocol23:34
BUGabundodone23:34
BUGabundowhat's next dobey?23:34
tcolenext I'd go to the trunk directory and use debuild -us -uc to build a client package23:35
tcoleyou might need to apt-get some bits to use debuild, I'm not sure23:35
tcolealso need fakeroot23:35
tcoledebuild isn't the right way to build a package for distribution (for that you'd use pbuilder), but it's nice for quick and dirty things like this23:35
BUGabundoalready did that part of apt-get debbuild23:36
tcoleok23:36
BUGabundo$ debuild -us -uc23:36
BUGabundoThis package has a Debian revision number but there does not seem to be an appropriate original tar file or .orig directory in the parent directory; (expected one of ubuntuone-client_0.90.1.orig.tar.gz, ubuntuone-client_0.90.1.orig.tar.bz2, ubuntuone-client_0.90.1.orig.tar.lzma or ubuntuone-client.orig)23:36
tcolesay yes anyway if it gives you the opportunity23:36
BUGabundodoing so23:36
BUGabundoirk so many inkscape errors/warnings23:37
dobeysigh. i can't believe it takes 20 minutes to prepare a pizza to stick in the oven23:37
BUGabundoaahah23:37
dobeyyeah, inkscape is buggy23:37
BUGabundodobey: I ate tonight one of the best Pizzas in Porto23:38
BUGabundoI always do on fridays23:38
BUGabundoif any of you ever comes to Portugal on day, Pizza is on me23:38
* dobey calls mark to let him know BUGabundo will take care of pizza for us at next UDS ;)23:40
BUGabundoME WHAT?23:40
BUGabundoI'm unpleoid... feel free to let mark know he can get me a job as sysadmi or PR23:41
sladenBUGabundo: debuild -b -uc -us23:43
sladenBUGabundo: the -b says to only produce a binary package23:43
BUGabundoso now what?23:44
BUGabundoI dpgk install it?23:44
dobeyyes23:46
sladenwhat's the significance of port 2010123:47
dobeysignificance where?23:51
sladenit's used in an example23:53
sladenis it the magic port that ubunet listens on, or something like that23:53
sladenit would be less confusing if 'ubuntuone-storage-protocol' were renamed  'python-u1storage'23:54
dobeyyeah, we need to rename some of the packages23:55
dobeyoh23:56
dobeythe examples also refer to localhost, and the bits where that port is used, are commented out23:56
dobeythose might need updating too23:56
sladenwhat is the origin of it?23:57
dobeyi don't know where that port # came from23:57
tcolesladen: agreed, at least, it should certainly have the python- on there which it doesn't...23:58
tcoledobey, could you review? -> https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~tcole/ubuntuone-storage-protocol/better-readme/+merge/713423:59

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