[01:00] <cosio55> Hi
[01:03] <cosio55> i needed some help for a school project
[01:03] <Svenstaro> What's that?
[01:09] <cosio55> i want to make a computer room in my school, but im from mexico so really there is no much money here, so what i thought would be a good idea is to use edubuntu, and 1 computer as server, and then the others as thin clients, is it hard to install al that?
[01:19] <Svenstaro> cosio55, depends on how many bells and whistles you need and how many computer clients you have
[01:20] <cosio55> i want to make everything from scratch, lets say one server for 20 thin clients
[01:21] <Svenstaro> cosio55, you want a powerful server then
[01:21] <cosio55> how much $~
[01:21] <Svenstaro> About $1000
[01:21] <Svenstaro> Quadcore, 4GB Ram, raid 1 disks
[01:22] <Svenstaro> gigabit switch and gigabit cards
[01:22] <Svenstaro> the clients might only need 100mbit
[01:23] <cosio55> and more less how much each thin client would cost?
[01:23] <Svenstaro> less than $50 if you only count the computer without screen and peripherals
[01:26] <cosio55> and how can i build a thin client a motherboard a processor or how?
[01:26] <Svenstaro> I recommend getting the cheapest computer that supports PXE booting
[01:27] <Svenstaro> that means it is completely disk less
[01:27] <cosio55> and do you know any brand or any model in specific?
[01:28] <Svenstaro> Nah, I just use what is bouncing around here.
[01:28] <stgraber> hmm, that server hardware can run 50 or so thin cliennts, not 20
[01:28] <Svenstaro> stgraber, one single youtube gets my quadcore to 25%
[01:28] <Svenstaro> So careful about that
[01:28] <stgraber> that's why we have localapps
[01:28] <Svenstaro> Also, quadcores are cheap
[01:29] <stgraber> I run some networks with over 5000 thin clients so I know a bit about CPU usage believe me :)
[01:30] <Svenstaro> Just saying what's happening to my poor server :(
[01:30] <cosio55> so for 20 thin clients what configuration do you think would be best
[01:31] <stgraber> usually the biggest issue is the RAM, so 4GB are always welcome, then a good Core2 should be enough though as Svenstaro said QuadCores are cheap so if you don't have existing hardware around it may be a good choice
[01:32] <stgraber> for the thin clients, you can get something really good starting at 200-250$ based on Intel Atom so they'll be powerful enough to run firefox and some other CPU intensive appps as localapps and decrease the load on the server and the network
[01:32] <stgraber> (the reall issue with youtube is not the CPU usage, it's the bandwidth :))
[01:33] <Svenstaro> You can probably get really cheap yet suitable old comps in your area for less than $50
[01:33] <Svenstaro> With some rusty graphics card that still suffices
[01:33] <stgraber> for sure you can get some cheaper thin clients using AMD Geode or VIA C7 though they aren't well supported by X and the kernel
[01:34] <Svenstaro> I mean old workstations, p3s etc.
[01:34] <stgraber> for video card you should make sure that compositing is supported and that you have more than one xvideo channel
[01:34] <stgraber> yeah, I was speaking of new hardware, you can find some old workstations too, just be careful to have at least 128MB of RAM for 100% on the server or 512MB of ram if you plan to do localapps
[01:34] <cosio55> and what else would i need the server, the thin clients and what else?
[01:35] <stgraber> gigabit link between the server and the switch (so you'll need a switch with at least one gigabit uplink) and then 100Mb/s to the thin clients
[01:35] <stgraber> if you're going with old workstations, you may need to check your electricity as well as these things use quite a lot of power
[01:36] <stgraber> (Atom-based uses 10W in average so that's less of a problem)
[01:39] <cosio55> for example could these motherboard be used as a thin client? http://cgi.ebay.com/INTEL-MB-BOXD945GCLF2D-ATOM-INT945GC-LGA775-FSB533-DR2_W0QQitemZ330326955212QQihZ014QQcategoryZ28026QQssPageNameZWD1VQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1638Q2em118Q2el1247
[01:39] <stgraber> yes, that's the same used in most commercial atom-based thin clients (though they're using a smaller version of it)
[01:39] <Svenstaro> Looks good to me
[01:40] <stgraber> you can get that + RAM + case for under 200$
[01:40] <Svenstaro> + psu..?
[01:41] <stgraber> psu is provided with the case at least for the ones we took
[01:41] <cosio55> and for example a gigabit link could be this? http://cgi.ebay.com/8-Port-Gigabit-1000M-Tp-Link-Network-Ethernet-Switch_W0QQitemZ250402796383QQihZ015QQcategoryZ51268QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
[01:41] <Svenstaro> That's handy
[01:41] <Svenstaro> cosio55, too small
[01:41] <Svenstaro> you're looking for 24ports
[01:42] <stgraber> I'd rather go with a big 24ports with one or two ports gigabit
[01:42] <cosio55> like this one? http://cgi.ebay.com/TP-LINK-TL-SG1024-24-Port-Unmanaged-Pure-Gigabit-Switch_W0QQitemZ270403549330QQihZ017QQcategoryZ51268QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
[01:42] <Svenstaro> woah thats cheap
[01:43] <stgraber> looks better, just look at some reviews to make sure the backbone can actually support 1Gb/s :)
[01:43] <cosio55> ebay is a very good place to get low prices  ;)
[01:43] <Svenstaro> I prefer private online warehouses but oh well, wahtever works for you!
[01:43] <stgraber> because some of these are fine for one gigabit transfer between two ports but suddenly get extremely slow if you try another transfer between two other ports :)
[01:43] <cosio55> and the motherborad i showed you later, does it support PXE? or how can i know
[01:44] <Svenstaro> cosio55, it will support PXE
[01:44] <stgraber> it does
[01:44] <stgraber> that's a standard Realtek Gigabit card, you can turn on PXE booting in the BIOS
[01:45] <cosio55> Oh ok well thak you very much you really have no idea about how much you have helped me on this school project, im actually presenting this project to helo the poor people in mexico so that they can get to use a computer
[01:46] <Svenstaro> nice :D
[01:46] <cosio55> but i only have one more question, is it really hard to actually install edubuntu on the server and then on the thin clients?
[01:46] <cosio55> like you need to use many commands and stuff or is it more graphical?
[01:47] <Svenstaro> well currently documentation is a bit torn, you will have to invest a great deal of time to get everything going *just* like you want
[01:47] <Svenstaro> but the basic get-going set up is rather swift
[01:47] <stgraber> install is basically boot an alternate CD, choose LTSP, then follow the install process, once you get to the installed desktop, then install edubuntu
[01:47] <Svenstaro> You often will need to get your hands dirty I'm afraid, so better embrace the CLI.
[01:48] <cosio55> sorry, what is CLI?
[01:49] <Svenstaro> command line interface
[01:49] <Svenstaro> as opposed to GUI
[01:50] <cosio55> oh ok well thank you very much and just 1 more question thin clients dont need Hard disks right?
[01:50] <stgraber> indeed
[01:50] <Svenstaro> thats the big idea after all
[01:50] <cosio55> oh ok well thank you very very much
[01:51] <Svenstaro> uhm
[13:31] <stgraber> ogra: thanks
[14:44] <sbalneav> Morning all
[15:12] <highvoltage> morning sbalneav
[15:27] <stgraber> hi sbalneav, how's ldm going ? ;)
[15:32] <sbalneav> I didn't look at it at all this weekend, as I was out at the cottage.
[16:33] <stgraber> ogra: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MainInclusionReportNumlockx looks good ?
[16:36] <alkisg> stgraber: udhcp uses CDBS for it's packaging.
[16:36] <alkisg> udhcp => numlockx
[16:40] <alkisg> stgraber, btw, now that Ubuntu installs the "Recommends:" dependencies by default, would it be possible to modify ltsp-server so that it recommends, but not depends, on tftpd-hpa? (so that one can replace it with dnsmasq afterwards)
[16:41] <stgraber> IIRC we had issue with that as in some cases d-i don't install recommends
[16:42] <alkisg> Damn! :( Thanks, though.
[16:42] <stgraber> fixed, the mistake in the MIR, thanks
[19:16] <Lns> Hope I'm not spamming around - but have you guys seen this? http://linux.com/news/enterprise/case-studies/16798-linux-makes-the-grade-in-california-schools
[19:22] <HedgeMage> Lns: neat :)
[19:22] <Lns> HedgeMage: =)