=== gletelli__ is now known as gletelli === rwhitby is now known as rwhitby-n800 === rwhitby is now known as rwhitby-n800 === rwhitby-n800 is now known as rwhitby [15:42] Martyn: pegatron inventec :) [15:52] armin76 : Oh hell yea [15:52] armin76 : I have a pegatron netbook on the way to the office. [15:52] armin76 : I have to wait to get my hands on the inventec one though. :( :( [15:52] and on the PXA FPGA based Cortex-A9 from ARM [15:52] gimme one :D [15:52] (which runs at a pokey 70mhz .. but at least is clock-cycle-accurate) [15:53] no. I had to sign >two< NDA's to get the damned pegatron [15:53] yes! [15:53] It's all prerelease hardware too .. so I'm sure it's buggy as all hell (like the Babbage -wasn't-) [15:53] *mrrpf* [15:53] In any case, I've nearly finished adjusting 9.04 for Beagle in a form that might be releaseable [15:54] what I'd like is an armv6 recompile of the the whole tree though [15:54] power consumption is LUDICRIOUSLY high with everything compiled v5 [15:54] use gentoo :) [15:54] I hear that karmic will be ARMv6 compiled, which may help (but isn't now) [15:55] we'll never convince anyone that 'ubuntu is better than Android' if we can't get a better optimized ARM dist working on the pegatron [15:55] my boss has us doing oprofile() and power work now [15:55] and the news with oprofile() is bad .. it spends far too little time in the idle_pm state [15:56] you can run android apps on ubuntu [15:56] Surely that's not just from the compiler flags. [15:56] doesnt that make it classes better already ? :) [15:56] not if your netbook will only run for 2 hours [15:56] Martyn: umm.. and you think _that_ will get fixed by fiddlying compiler flags? [15:57] suihkulokki : with proper flags in place? Yes. when you use idle_pm rather than kernel_idle, fully a /third/ of the calls turn into the lower power idle call [15:57] suihkulokki, I hear that there was a 5% improvement on the Atom processors from flags: it might get an extra 6 minutes :) [15:57] suihkulokki : It's one of the few times that putting in v6 support is a good thing [15:58] persia : This is our beloved ARM .. atom's just don't "get" real power management [15:58] you mean 5% will make up 12min then ? [15:58] ogra, 120 X 0.05 = 6 [15:59] suihkulokki, persia : I'd be glad to show you the oprofile() work and power reductions once the power is complete... [15:59] Martyn, Ah. I see. [15:59] power study is complete rather [15:59] persia, ( 120 X 0.05 )^ARM = 12 [15:59] ;) [16:00] Well, no. If there's that big a difference between idle_pm vs. kernel_idle, then it could be lots more. [16:00] So, this is more like getting 3 hours instead of 2, without doing any hard work... [16:00] to be honest i have to see any improvements on power first ... as long as they put the same peripherial stuff around arm as you have on ATOM i really dont see where the saving factor will be [16:01] I think the best thing to do is wait till we finish the study, and then read the paper and see the differences as measured in our lab... [16:01] ogra : The difference is that ARM processors really do power down lots of pieces around the core when you engage the power management features [16:02] yeah yeah [16:02] ATOM's dont :) [16:02] you have the babbage1 [16:02] or I should say, they don't do it properly. [16:02] Yeah. [16:02] i.mx51 is a dissapointment [16:02] I'm getting better power numbers out of the OMAP3 than I am from the i.mx51 [16:02] if the "pieces around" are all connected through unmanageable USB, it doesnt really help [16:03] Yes, but USB *can* be managed, if it's the right part. [16:03] right, and babbage2 improves here [16:04] Just a matter of good systems integration (mind you, there exists manageable USB for Atom too, although my Atom devices all leave USB powered on all the time (even when sleeping). [16:04] ogra : Have you gotten the babbage2 yet? [16:04] yup [16:04] sits on my desk [16:04] ogra : I'm skipping babbage2 in favor of the real pegatron hardware ATM [16:04] (i.e. actual netbook) [16:04] well, that should be identical [16:05] so I'm told. [16:05] i have the guts of the netbook too [16:05] but didnt even boot it yet [16:05] ogra : How's the stability of the peripherals? especially ethernet? [16:05] mine doesn't arrive until next Monday [16:05] seems ok, i ran the B2 for the last week or so without issues [16:06] though we dont have a kernel yet, i'm still using the shipped one [16:06] ubuntu kernel will be ready by alpha3 [16:07] excellent [16:07] I will be submitting patches for Cortex-A9 into the mainline kernel in the next couple weeks [16:07] mostly surrounding getting SMP up and going. There are issues in using WFINE in the bootloader to hold off the other cores [16:07] I'd like to move that responsibility totally into the kernel, and not have this bootloader state engine dependency [16:08] cool [16:09] okay, catch you all on the flipside... I'm headed to the office [16:25] back [16:25] Okay, I talked to Boss-Man and made noises about getting our hands on a babbage2 [16:25] no point on having me hack on hardware different than is available to Canonical, right? [16:26] Martyn, Well, if you find that there's some gross incompatibility with other hardware, that becomes interesting, for certain classes of other hardware. [16:26] Or at least, increases the user base. There's lots of people doing interesting things with Jaunty who have "unsupported" hardware. [16:26] well, the pegatron should be identical, i think the B2 was produced in a very limited amount [16:28] limited, but ARM partners should have 'em [16:28] b1 was also quite limited [16:28] enough that if I accidentally break or tear the debug dongle cable, I'm screwed :) [17:56] I get cat: /etc/timezone: No such file or directory when running build-arm-rootfs [17:56] what is the best solution? [21:39] Grrr... getting Babbage to boot from flash image is not fun