[15:42] <armin76> Martyn: pegatron inventec :)
[15:52] <Martyn> armin76 : Oh hell yea
[15:52] <Martyn> armin76 : I have a pegatron netbook on the way to the office.
[15:52] <Martyn> armin76 : I have to wait to get my hands on the inventec one though.  :( :(
[15:52] <Martyn> and on the PXA FPGA based Cortex-A9 from ARM
[15:52] <armin76> gimme one :D
[15:52] <Martyn> (which runs at a pokey 70mhz .. but at least is clock-cycle-accurate)
[15:53] <Martyn> no.  I had to sign >two< NDA's to get the damned pegatron
[15:53] <armin76> yes!
[15:53] <Martyn> It's all prerelease hardware too .. so I'm sure it's buggy as all hell (like the Babbage -wasn't-)
[15:53] <Martyn> *mrrpf*
[15:53] <Martyn> In any case, I've nearly finished adjusting 9.04 for Beagle in a form that might be releaseable
[15:54] <Martyn> what I'd like is an armv6 recompile of the the whole tree though
[15:54] <Martyn> power consumption is LUDICRIOUSLY high with everything compiled v5
[15:54] <armin76> use gentoo :)
[15:54] <persia> I hear that karmic will be ARMv6 compiled, which may help (but isn't now)
[15:55] <Martyn> we'll never convince anyone that 'ubuntu is better than Android' if we can't get a better optimized ARM dist working on the pegatron
[15:55] <Martyn> my boss has us doing oprofile() and power work now
[15:55] <Martyn> and the news with oprofile() is bad .. it spends far too little time in the idle_pm state
[15:56] <ogra> you can run android apps on ubuntu
[15:56] <persia> Surely that's not just from the compiler flags.
[15:56] <ogra> doesnt that make it classes better already ? :)
[15:56] <Martyn> not if your netbook will only run for 2 hours
[15:56] <suihkulokki> Martyn: umm.. and you think _that_ will get fixed by fiddlying compiler flags?
[15:57] <Martyn> suihkulokki : with proper flags in place? Yes.  when you use idle_pm rather than kernel_idle, fully a /third/ of the calls turn into the lower power idle call
[15:57] <persia> suihkulokki, I hear that there was a 5% improvement on the Atom processors from flags: it might get an extra 6 minutes :)
[15:57] <Martyn> suihkulokki : It's one of the few times that putting in v6 support is a good thing
[15:58] <Martyn> persia : This is our beloved ARM .. atom's just don't "get" real power management
[15:58] <ogra> you mean 5% will make up 12min then ?
[15:58] <persia> ogra, 120 X 0.05 = 6
[15:59] <Martyn> suihkulokki, persia : I'd be glad to show you the oprofile() work and power reductions once the power is complete...
[15:59] <persia> Martyn, Ah.  I see.
[15:59] <Martyn> power study is complete rather
[15:59] <ogra> persia, ( 120 X 0.05 )^ARM = 12
[15:59] <ogra> ;)
[16:00] <persia> Well, no.  If there's that big a difference between idle_pm vs. kernel_idle, then it could be lots more.
[16:00] <Martyn> So, this is more like getting 3 hours instead of 2, without doing any hard work...
[16:00] <ogra> to be honest i have to see any improvements on power first ... as long as they put the same peripherial stuff around arm as you have on ATOM i really dont see where the saving factor will be
[16:01] <Martyn> I think the best thing to do is wait till we finish the study, and then read the paper and see the differences as measured in our lab...
[16:01] <Martyn> ogra : The difference is that ARM processors really do power down lots of pieces around the core when you engage the power management features
[16:02] <ogra> yeah yeah
[16:02] <Martyn> ATOM's dont :)
[16:02] <ogra> you have the babbage1
[16:02] <Martyn> or I should say, they don't do it properly.
[16:02] <Martyn> Yeah.
[16:02] <Martyn> i.mx51 is a dissapointment
[16:02] <Martyn> I'm getting better power numbers out of the OMAP3 than I am from the i.mx51
[16:02] <ogra> if the "pieces around" are all connected through unmanageable USB, it doesnt really help
[16:03] <persia> Yes, but USB *can* be managed, if it's the right part.
[16:03] <ogra> right, and babbage2 improves here
[16:04] <persia> Just a matter of good systems integration (mind you, there exists manageable USB for Atom too, although my Atom devices all leave USB powered on all the time (even when sleeping).
[16:04] <Martyn> ogra : Have you gotten the babbage2 yet?
[16:04] <ogra> yup
[16:04] <ogra> sits on my desk
[16:04] <Martyn> ogra : I'm skipping babbage2 in favor of the real pegatron hardware ATM
[16:04] <Martyn> (i.e. actual netbook)
[16:04] <ogra> well, that should be identical
[16:05] <Martyn> so I'm told.
[16:05] <ogra> i have the guts of the netbook too
[16:05] <ogra> but didnt even boot it yet
[16:05] <Martyn> ogra : How's the stability of the peripherals?  especially ethernet?
[16:05] <Martyn> mine doesn't arrive until next Monday
[16:05] <ogra> seems ok, i ran the B2 for the last week or so without issues
[16:06] <ogra> though we dont have a kernel yet, i'm still using the shipped one
[16:06] <ogra> ubuntu kernel will be ready by alpha3
[16:07] <Martyn> excellent
[16:07] <Martyn> I will be submitting patches for Cortex-A9 into the mainline kernel in the next couple weeks
[16:07] <Martyn> mostly surrounding getting SMP up and going.  There are issues in using WFINE in the bootloader to hold off the other cores
[16:07] <Martyn> I'd like to move that responsibility totally into the kernel, and not have this bootloader state engine dependency
[16:08] <ogra> cool
[16:09] <Martyn> okay, catch you all on the flipside... I'm headed to the office
[16:25] <Martyn> back
[16:25] <Martyn> Okay, I talked to Boss-Man and made noises about getting our hands on a babbage2
[16:25] <Martyn> no point on having me hack on hardware different than is available to Canonical, right?
[16:26] <persia> Martyn, Well, if you find that there's some gross incompatibility with other hardware, that becomes interesting, for certain classes of other hardware.
[16:26] <persia> Or at least, increases the user base.  There's lots of people doing interesting things with Jaunty who have "unsupported" hardware.
[16:26] <ogra> well, the pegatron should be identical, i think the B2 was produced in a very limited amount
[16:28] <Martyn> limited, but ARM partners should have 'em
[16:28] <Martyn> b1 was also quite limited
[16:28] <Martyn> enough that if I accidentally break or tear the debug dongle cable, I'm screwed :)
[17:56] <cbrake> I get cat: /etc/timezone: No such file or directory when running build-arm-rootfs
[17:56] <cbrake> what is the best solution?
[21:39] <Martyn> Grrr... getting Babbage to boot from flash image is not fun