| AnAnt | Hello, I need to discuss the dependencies of velocity, why does velocity depend on ant ? | 10:38 |
|---|---|---|
| AnAnt | the dependancy of velocity on ant makes it also pull in the default-jdk package (since default-jdk is Recommended by ant) | 10:39 |
| AnAnt | although velocity (as far as I know) is just a bunch of classes that can be used by other java software | 10:39 |
| persia | AnAnt, The trick being not so much that you weren't asking in the right place before, but that perhaps nobody in Ubuntu clearly knows. | 10:39 |
| AnAnt | persia: haha, you noticed ? | 10:39 |
| persia | Of course. | 10:39 |
| AnAnt | persia: ok, I looked at the changelog | 10:39 |
| AnAnt | I see that in the past velocity depended on a libant | 10:40 |
| AnAnt | libant1.6-java | 10:40 |
| AnAnt | then that changed to ant | 10:40 |
| persia | Indeed. The package also contains some stuff that gets installed to usr/share/ant/lib | 10:40 |
| AnAnt | oh | 10:41 |
| AnAnt | I still don't get it | 10:42 |
| persia | I don't know the real reason either. The dependency was changed in Debian in 2005, without clear comment. | 10:43 |
| persia | But I suspect it's in part because there exists no libant anymore, and it is required to enable the ant integration to work. | 10:44 |
| AnAnt_ | if it is to enable ant integration to work, then probably ant should be in Suggests | 10:45 |
| persia | Hrm? Why? | 10:46 |
| persia | Perhaps it won't install, or won't work without ant. | 10:46 |
| persia | Perhaps it uses ant as part of it's JSP management | 10:47 |
| AnAnt_ | what's JSP ? | 10:47 |
| david_yu | java server pages | 10:47 |
| persia | AnAnt, Let's look at this a different way. Why don't you want ant installed? | 10:48 |
| AnAnt_ | persia: ok, ant pulls in default-jdk | 10:49 |
| AnAnt_ | persia: which is a big overhead, although one may only need the velocity.jar from velocity package | 10:49 |
| AnAnt_ | ant Recommends default-jdk, which is understandable | 10:50 |
| AnAnt_ | but I don't quite understand that velocity *Depends* on ant | 10:50 |
| persia | AnAnt, OK. For what do you only need velocity.jar? | 10:50 |
| AnAnt_ | persia: a java software depends on velocity, dunno why though, I'm not much a java developer | 10:50 |
| persia | And do you know that this software operates properly without ant? | 10:51 |
| AnAnt_ | isn't ant just some sort of a make system for java packages ? | 10:52 |
| AnAnt_ | build system | 10:52 |
| persia | Kinda sorta. | 10:52 |
| AnAnt__ | d/c again | 10:53 |
| AnAnt__ | ok, so ant is only needed in build time | 10:53 |
| AnAnt__ | not runtime | 10:53 |
| AnAnt__ | yes, the software does use ant to build | 10:53 |
| AnAnt__ | probably I need to make sure from upstream if he needs velocity in runtime | 10:53 |
| persia | Well, except that ant tends to be used for more runtime automation than make. | 10:54 |
| persia | Yes, that would be a good idea. | 10:54 |
| AnAnt__ | runtime automation ? | 10:54 |
| persia | Performing scripted tasks at runtime. | 10:56 |
| persia | Remember, ant is just a collection of java code that is well suited to automating tasks. This can be used as a build system, and that's the primary use of ant, but it can also be used in other ways. | 10:57 |
| AnAnt___ | ok, the app does need velocity | 11:01 |
| AnAnt___ | and when I removed ant (and kept velocity), the app does work | 11:02 |
| persia | Well, file a bug asking for ant to be a recommendation rather than a dependency then. | 11:03 |
| AnAnt___ | hmm, probably more testing first | 11:04 |
| AnAnt___ | thanks anyways | 11:04 |
| AnAnt | persia: recommendation or suggestion ? | 11:28 |
| AnAnt_ | seems that debian bug 506018 is related to what I was talking about | 14:16 |
| ubottu | Debian bug 506018 in velocity "velocity: adds libraries to /usr/share/ant/lib" [Serious,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/506018 | 14:16 |
| manzur | hola | 22:00 |
| manzur | alguien sabe java aca? | 22:01 |
| manzur | javascript | 22:01 |
| fenn_ | where is a good place for a newbee java programmer to get more answers than attitude - especially for graphics programming | 22:07 |
| fenn_ | ? | 22:07 |
| fenn_ | manzur:Sé que algunos de Java - ¿Cuál es su pregunta? | 22:10 |
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