[00:00] <bodhizazen> we do not have many "tools" in place such as governance , membership, etc
[00:00] <bodhizazen> we really need to start having meetings and putting those things in place
[00:01] <pwnguin> thats an area where you can probably help out a lot
[00:01] <bodhizazen> Since we are young, a lot of damage can be done on this channel when people claim to speak for this team
[00:02] <pwnguin> you dont nessecarily need to dictate decisions
[00:02] <pwnguin> but building a schedule
[00:02] <pwnguin> and team agenda
[00:02] <bodhizazen> Well, that is not really my nature, to dictate how the team will run
[00:02] <pwnguin> and making sure things are happening
[00:02] <pwnguin> can do a lot
[00:02] <bodhizazen> Everyone will claim to be acting in the interest of the team
[00:03] <bodhizazen> With that in mind , I saw a lot of potential damage with the discussion with dlinda
[00:04] <bodhizazen> Vantrax|Work: I suggest we identify team members with voice in this channle
[00:04] <pwnguin> dlinda == dinda?
[00:04] <bodhizazen> yea, sorry
[00:04] <bodhizazen> at any rate , it is one thing to have internal discussions / debates on how to run / manage this team
[00:04] <bodhizazen> and quite another to act as an "ambassador" with other teams
[00:05] <Vantrax|Work> yes bodhi
[00:05] <Vantrax|Work> and have board as ops
[00:05] <bodhizazen> we need to discuss how one becomes a member of the team as well :)
[00:05] <pwnguin> im not sure who dinda is exactly
[00:05] <pwnguin> i think she's canonical staff?
[00:06] <bodhizazen> So if somebody comes from another team , Canonical, MOTU, Wiki, whatever
[00:06] <bodhizazen> we need to welcome them and work with them please
[00:06] <bodhizazen> yes
[00:06] <bodhizazen> dinda is our primary contact with Cannonical
[00:07] <bodhizazen> she is the one I have been working with (and others) to point learn.ubuntu.com to my server
[00:07] <bodhizazen> So let us say for example somebody comes from the MOTU , with me so far ?
[00:08] <bodhizazen> Our goal is to work with them
[00:08] <bodhizazen> If they have concerns with licensing, we need to make our best effort to resolve their concerns
[00:08] <pwnguin> collaboration is part of the code of conduct
[00:09] <bodhizazen> Now, we will not be able to please everybody all the time, granted
[00:09] <bodhizazen> but let us put forth a bit of effort to please as many people as possible
[00:10] <Vantrax|Work> indeed
[00:10] <Vantrax|Work> once we settle the licensing issue internally we can talk to the teams
[00:11] <pwnguin> it would probably help if people came prepared with specific resolutions to vote on
[00:11] <bodhizazen> I suggest "education"
[00:12] <bodhizazen> I am willing to bet not everyone who considers themselves a team member knows the issues
[00:12] <bodhizazen> I suggest in providing education we start with "unbiased facts" as much as possible
[00:13] <bodhizazen> ie a direct link to license for example ;)
[00:15] <bodhizazen> I do believe that on such contentious issues compromise is possible and I highly doubt there is a "perfect license" for this project
[00:15] <bodhizazen> Now we could take up a collection and hire a lawyer to draw one up, no doubt
[00:16] <dthacker> Wow, that was a lot of backscroll to read.
[00:16] <pwnguin> heh
[00:17] <bodhizazen> Vantrax|Work: and cprofit have proposed what seem like reasonable compromises on licensing and we need to support such comprise :)
[00:19] <bodhizazen> IMO it is counter productive for team members to promote extreme or uncompromising points of view
[00:20] <bodhizazen> Clearly such an extreme view is unlikely to be adopted by this project, let alone enable us to work fluidly with other projects
[00:20] <pwnguin> i dont think i ever saw any concrete views
[00:20] <pwnguin> what is this extreme view you speak of?
[00:21] <bodhizazen> I seem to recall doctormo threatenign to leave the project unless the license was -NC
[00:21] <pwnguin> uh
[00:21] <pwnguin> quite the opposite
[00:21] <bodhizazen> If you really want I can pull the quote
[00:22] <pwnguin> i recall him declaring he woudln't support a -NC mandate
[00:22] <bodhizazen> Ah, well that is the extreem position then :)
[00:22] <pwnguin> so the "extreme" position is "some stuff can be CC-BY-SA"
[00:23] <pwnguin> and this is unlikely to be adopted?
[00:23] <bodhizazen> um no
[00:23] <bodhizazen> that is not what doctormo said is it ?
[00:24] <bodhizazen> That is what Vantrax|Work said
[00:25] <Vantrax|Work> err
[00:25] <pwnguin> from what i see, he quoted a webpage, and thought it was mistaken
[00:25] <Vantrax|Work> The licencing will be CC-BY-SA where possible, but some items will be CC-BY-NC-SA because we dont create them
[00:25] <bodhizazen> link to log and I will pull it
[00:26] <Vantrax|Work> we will have to update the page when we can get everyone together to agree on this
[00:26] <Vantrax|Work> we need a meeting where we can get most of us there.
[00:26] <pwnguin> http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2009/06/09/%23ubuntu-learning.html
[00:29] <bodhizazen> doctormo	If it's NC I will withdraw, because I don't intend for my work to be abused.
[00:30] <bodhizazen> 	doctormo	I intent to not have materials subject to limitations that are not right and not future proof.
[00:30] <pwnguin> i think he's right
[00:30] <pwnguin> if i put a course on ubuntu-learning
[00:31] <bodhizazen> he will need to compromise and abide by the decision of this project, which looks like
[00:31] <bodhizazen> Vantrax|Work	The licencing will be CC-BY-SA where possible, but some items will be CC-BY-NC-SA because we dont create them
[00:31] <pwnguin> bodhizazen: you're missing some context here
[00:31] <bodhizazen> :)\
[00:31] <pwnguin> it kinda looked like dinda was asserting -nc as a requirement
[00:31] <bodhizazen> well, I do not really want to cut and paste the entire conversation
[00:32] <bodhizazen> besides, I think this issue is between doctormo and "the project"
[00:33] <bodhizazen> and not something we should be discussing further
[00:33] <bodhizazen> without him
[00:35] <pwnguin> what i was saying was, if i put up a course on ubuntu moodle, and later took a job with the instructional side of this college
[00:35] <pwnguin> teaching linux
[00:35] <Vantrax|Work> you could use the materials as 'added reading' but not as your course
[00:35] <pwnguin> could i import the course into blackboard?
[00:36] <Vantrax|Work> that is if it was NC
[00:36] <Vantrax|Work> but as its CC-BY-SA you could just import it into blackboard with a link back
[00:37] <bodhizazen> Or you can make your own personal web site and do with it as you wish.
[00:37] <Vantrax|Work> Ill talk with dinda when she comes around next about this, little bit of misunderstanding all round I think
[00:38] <pwnguin> depending on whether -NC is on there, who owns the copyright, and what modifications have been made
[00:38] <bodhizazen> I do believe you "give up" some "rights" when you publish on a public web site you do not own.
[00:39] <bodhizazen> Not that I know the details mind you ;)
[00:39] <pwnguin> usually you give them non-exclusive rights to reproduce
[00:39] <pwnguin> not ownership
[00:39] <pwnguin> otherwise canonical owns a lot of code hosted in launchpad
[00:39] <bodhizazen> Well, it would depend on the site I believe
[00:41] <bodhizazen> Some sites are probably more restrictive then others
[00:56] <Vantrax|Work> okies, im off to a meeting for the next two hours
[00:56] <Vantrax|Work> sent me msg if you want me
[00:56] <Vantrax|Work> ill check in when i get back
[03:23] <bodhizazen> night everyone :)
[03:23] <bodhizazen> cprofitt: nice work :)
[03:24] <bodhizazen> I hope to have a new test server back up soon
[03:24] <cprofitt> nice work?
[03:24] <bodhizazen> yes, no the course
[03:24] <bodhizazen> I looked at it today
[03:24] <cprofitt> the three courses - got ya
[03:24] <cprofitt> those all are CC courses -- not ones I made
[03:24] <bodhizazen> I looked @ gimp and OOO
[03:24] <cprofitt> I will be making one on UFW as an example
[03:25] <bodhizazen> well, you uploaded ?
[03:25] <cprofitt> and it will tie in with the UFW wiki
[03:25] <cprofitt> yes, I uploaded all three courses currently on the site
[05:17] <Vantrax|Work> aww missed dindia
[23:32] <Vantrax> hey dinda
[23:33] <dinda> howdy
[23:51] <Vantrax> did you get the email I sent back earlier?