[08:34] <GunbladeIV> [1;3D
[11:46] <rayChang> /clear
[11:47] <rayChang>  (행동)
[15:58]  * mvo looks around
[15:58]  * liw looks around
[15:58]  * robbiew waves
[15:59] <robbiew> I got 1 minute!
[15:59] <slangasek> morning
[15:59] <cjwatson> hi
[16:00] <robbiew> #startmeeting
[16:00] <MootBot> Meeting started at 10:00. The chair is robbiew.
[16:00] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[16:00] <robbiew> hi liw: mvo: slangasek: cjwatson:
[16:00] <mvo> hi
[16:00] <robbiew> Keybuk: around? done crying about your iPhone :P
[16:01] <Keybuk> ;)
[16:01] <mvo> what happend to it?
[16:01] <robbiew> Agenda: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/Meetings/2009/0610#Agenda
[16:01] <robbiew> james_w: awake?
[16:02] <james_w> aye aye
[16:02] <mterry> hi
[16:02] <robbiew> mterry: howdy
[16:03] <robbiew> last one in takes dmraid
[16:03] <robbiew> lol
[16:03] <Keybuk> mvo: nothing interesting, just told me it had core dumped
[16:03] <james_w> heh
[16:03] <robbiew> doko: you joining..or just listening :)
[16:03]  * evand1 knocks over everyone in his path to the entrance
[16:04] <al-maisan> robbiew: interesting management technique ;)
[16:04] <robbiew> thanks for taking dmraid evand1 :P
[16:04] <doko> robbiew: joining
[16:04] <robbiew> okay...let's go!
[16:04] <robbiew> [TOPIC] DMRaid
[16:04] <MootBot> New Topic:  DMRaid
[16:05] <robbiew> TheMuso can't take it to Desktop...so I need someone to take it
[16:05] <mterry> Why is it so scary?  Just needs special hardware?
[16:05] <cjwatson> ok, so
[16:05] <robbiew> yeah
[16:05] <liw> as I understand it the hardware is pretty common (part of the usual intel motherboard chipsets that lots of people have)
[16:06] <cjwatson> dmraid is a system for dealing with low-end hardware raid - but it's not using a proper raid controller, it's basically done in the bios
[16:06] <robbiew> well..it's software raid, so I don't think it's that special
[16:06] <cjwatson> the reason it's a bit scary is that (a) the hardware is nasty (b) the software is nasty
[16:06] <robbiew> heh
[16:06] <robbiew> TheMuso is willing to help whomever takes it over get up to speed
[16:06] <doko> nasty + nasty = scary ?
[16:06]  * slangasek doesn't have the hardware here
[16:06] <liw> I have the chipset on my desktop machine, but I want to use that machine, and I am not sacrificing its hard disks to dmraid :P
[16:07] <Keybuk> and (c) scott keeps changing things underneath you
[16:07] <mterry> How do i know if I have the right hardware?
[16:07] <cjwatson> it basically occupies an uncomfortable halfway house between proper hardware raid and mdadm
[16:07] <liw> Keybuk, which Scott? :)
[16:07] <cjwatson> however, dmraid *mostly* works now; the main thing that's missing is that IIRC the desktop installer doesn't yet deal with it
[16:07] <mterry> I'm sure I could appropriate some of the OEM hardware, if we have matching stuff
[16:07] <cjwatson> but of course it needs maintenance, and I understand that the userspace side is being integrated into mdadm at some point
[16:07] <liw> mterry, TheMuso gave the specs in a previous meeting, but I can't find it now
[16:08] <cjwatson> every bios vendor has their own flavour of it so there's a certain amount of whack-a-mole involved
[16:08] <robbiew> mterry: the only issue with you taking it...is when you go back to OEM next cycle
[16:08] <robbiew> unless you want to keep it :)
[16:08] <cjwatson> take it, fix it, document it, leave it? :)
[16:08] <mterry> robbiew: But then doko comes back for it, right?  I thought it was doko's baby.  Maybe I'm misremembering
[16:08] <liw> robbiew, that's not an issue, that's "distributing knowledge around the company"
[16:08] <robbiew> mterry: no..TheMuso's
[16:08] <mterry> Ah
[16:08] <cjwatson> certainly anyone taking it ought to have the relevant hardware, if only because that provides an incentive to make it work well
[16:09] <robbiew> right
[16:09]  * doko is handling over glibc to mterry
[16:09] <cjwatson> but I imagine there's some company hardware somewhere with it, as you say
[16:09] <robbiew> I also imagine that I could find some from the server team...since we are doing it for them in many ways
[16:09] <cjwatson> IIRC there hasn't been a lot of Ubuntu community interest in it unfortunately
[16:10] <cjwatson> (if I'm wrong, sorry, no slight intended)
[16:10] <robbiew> maybe we try giving it back to the server team....though I don't have much hope in them taking it
[16:11] <Keybuk> raid sounds very servery ;)
[16:11] <mterry> Well, if I'm not suitable, maybe OEM could give up some hardware to someone else, if people are worried about frying their stuff
[16:11] <liw> dmraid does not sound very servery to me ;-)
[16:11]  * soren concurs with liw :)
[16:11] <cjwatson> server people hate dmraid because it's cheap
[16:12] <evand1> I'm slightly confused by this being driven by the server team but the last missing piece being integration in ubiquity.
[16:12] <mterry> Everything we have is Intel, and we've got old netbooks
[16:12] <cjwatson> it's something hot-rod machines sold to gamers use
[16:12] <cjwatson> anyway, I think it'd be cool for mterry to do it personally
[16:12] <robbiew> cjwatson: okay
[16:12]  * liw votes for mterry
[16:12] <mterry> Again, it's not clear I have the hardware.  Will have to talk to TheMuso
[16:12] <robbiew> but we'll need to figure out a plan for post-mterry :)
[16:13] <robbiew> ok
[16:13] <robbiew> [ACTION] mterry to talk to TheMuso about dmraid
[16:13] <MootBot> ACTION received:  mterry to talk to TheMuso about dmraid
[16:13] <mterry> I assume we're obligated to love it?
[16:13] <mterry> Like, we can't just kick it to universe and wipe our hands?
[16:13] <robbiew> yes...but I can't remember why....cjwatson?
[16:13] <slangasek> I'd be willing to take it, but the company would need to get me a gaming rig^W^W test machine
[16:14] <robbiew> heh
[16:14] <evand1> heh
[16:14] <cjwatson> largely because lots of real hardware uses it and people get upset when Ubuntu doesn't work right on it
[16:14]  * ogra puts a "i love hot rods" sticker on mterry's back
[16:14] <cjwatson> if we aren't dmraid-aware, then if you try to install Ubuntu alongside e.g. an existing Windows installation, then it trashes your Windows installation for you
[16:14] <ogra> (with lots of flames)
[16:14] <robbiew> ah...right
[16:14] <cjwatson> since it desyncs the multiple disks
[16:14] <robbiew> I recall TheMuso mentioning tht
[16:14] <robbiew> that
[16:14] <mterry> cjwatson: Ah.  That just needs marketing as a feature, not a bug.  But good point
[16:14]  * Keybuk hides the Alienware logo on his desktop
[16:15] <slangasek> "just" :)
[16:15] <robbiew> mterry: I guess just chat with TheMuso later today and let me know if you can do it...thnks
[16:16] <mterry> robbiew: OK
[16:16] <robbiew> [TOPIC] Karmic Roadmap
[16:16] <MootBot> New Topic:  Karmic Roadmap
[16:16] <robbiew> http://wiki.canonical.com/UbuntuPlatform/Foundations/9.10
[16:16] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://wiki.canonical.com/UbuntuPlatform/Foundations/9.10
[16:16] <plars> https://mail.google.com/mail/?ui=2&zx=1bwv90j2o1its&shva=1#inbox
[16:16] <robbiew> I still need to put in the Medium and Lows...and move over to ubuntu.com
[16:16] <robbiew> plars: ????
[16:17] <robbiew> It's becoming clear as I populate the list...that there's NO way we can deliver all this
[16:17] <robbiew> at least, in my opinion
[16:17] <james_w> put in the medium and lows?!
[16:17] <mterry> Heh
[16:17] <doko> can we add e?glibc-2.10 to the roadmap?
[16:17] <robbiew> no
[16:18] <robbiew> heh
[16:18] <plars> robbiew: sorry, misfire
[16:18] <doko> robbiew: do you want to stick with 2.9 for karmic?
[16:19] <robbiew> doko: are you saying glibc or eglibc?
[16:19] <slangasek> robbiew: do you want multiarch on there as a 'low'? :)
[16:19] <Keybuk> robbiew: the swap file stuff has two parts
[16:19] <Keybuk> a boot part and an installer part
[16:19] <doko> robbiew: parse it as an extended regexp ;)
[16:20] <robbiew> slangasek: whatever the blueprint says
[16:20]  * robbiew forgot to put that in...like i said, it's not done
[16:20] <robbiew> Keybuk: right...okay
[16:20] <cjwatson> the installer part's pretty trivial - I'd be happy for us to do that bit without splitting up the blueprint
[16:20] <mterry> I don't see copyright stuff on that list.  Was that not us?
[16:20] <doko> slangasek: maybe delay that after debconf?
[16:21] <robbiew> [ACTION] robbiew to break apart the swapfile into boot and installer
[16:21] <MootBot> ACTION received:  robbiew to break apart the swapfile into boot and installer
[16:21] <Keybuk> cjwatson: the boot part is pretty trivial too ;)
[16:21] <robbiew> cjwatson: okay
[16:21] <slangasek> doko: delay what?  after debconf would be too late to start on a spec for karmic...
[16:21] <robbiew> that works too
[16:21] <robbiew> mterry: it is...just not gotten to it yet
[16:21] <slangasek> doko: and I'm trying to get the spec finalized so that Guillem has something to work to
[16:21]  * mterry is excited about the dep5 future
[16:22] <slangasek> you're excited about 4 more months of bikeshedding? :)
[16:22]  * mterry will be excited to have a bikeshed anyway
[16:22] <liw> slangasek, I'm excited about four months of bikeshedding that you drive :)
[16:23] <robbiew> so, I obviously need to finish this roadmap today/tomorrow, but wanted to let everyone see it now...to start the panic early ;)
[16:23] <doko> slangasek: wasn't aware that you do want to finish the spec before
[16:23] <cjwatson> in case people haven't noticed, BTW, this week is listed on the release schedule as the deadline for getting specs written
[16:24] <evand1> robbiew: should we contact you about items that are not on that list yet, or are you aware of the missing specs?
[16:24] <robbiew> I would like us to think about putting delivery milestones for our work...using the section in the blueprints
[16:24] <robbiew> evand1: no...I'm still building the list
[16:24] <liw> cjwatson, FeatureDefinitionFreeze? it's not june 18?
[16:24] <evand1> okay
[16:24] <cjwatson> liw: see the note against the previous week in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KarmicReleaseSchedule
[16:25] <cjwatson> IOW the specs need to be written up so that we have time to sift through them and agree what we're actually doing
[16:25] <liw> cjwatson, bah, that should be in the .ics file too, too many places to poll :(
[16:25] <robbiew> cjwatson: +1
[16:25] <mvo> *ick*
[16:25]  * mvo will have to focus on spec writing today then
[16:25] <robbiew> if you already know of work that you simply cannot do...let me know
[16:26] <robbiew> I can defer it, until next cycle...or help resolve the conflict of priorities
[16:26]  * Keybuk hasn't even started writing specs yet
[16:27]  * liw is still recovering from three weeks of travel
[16:27] <robbiew> cry me a river
[16:27] <robbiew> lol
[16:28] <liw> but yeah, finishing the specs I have this week should be reasonably possible, if I stop reading e-mail
[16:28]  * james_w can finish the specs this week. The work on the other hand... :-)
[16:29] <robbiew> okay...moving on
[16:29] <robbiew> [TOPIC] Bugs
[16:29] <MootBot> New Topic:  Bugs
[16:29] <cjwatson> robbiew: there was precious little agreement on foundations-karmic-ubuntu-one-in-installer, IIRC; the gobby document ends with "we won't change the installer"
[16:29] <cjwatson> so I think you can safely take that off our list
[16:29] <robbiew> cjwatson: yep...good point
[16:29] <robbiew> will do
[16:29]  * Keybuk writes the words "See implementation" in all his specs
[16:29] <Keybuk> done!
[16:30] <robbiew> [ACTION] robbiew to take off ubuntu-one-in-installer
[16:30] <MootBot> ACTION received:  robbiew to take off ubuntu-one-in-installer
[16:30] <robbiew> Alpha 2 is tomorrow
[16:30]  * slangasek chooses Keybuk as approver for all his specs
[16:30] <robbiew> heh
[16:31] <slangasek> he's the OTS of spec regulation
[16:31] <Keybuk> OTS?
[16:31] <slangasek> Office of Thrift Supervision :)
[16:31] <robbiew> heh
[16:31] <robbiew> not much to say about bugs for alpha2...since it's tomorrow
[16:31] <robbiew> so moving on to our favorite topic:
[16:32] <robbiew> [TOPIC] Sponsorship Queue
[16:32] <MootBot> New Topic:  Sponsorship Queue
[16:32] <cjwatson> I sucked during my scheduled timeslot yesterday, but rocked this morning to make up for it
[16:32] <cjwatson> (until I remembered that we were in soft freeze and rapidly switched to universe stuff, whoops)
[16:33] <robbiew> FWIW, dholbach has a little website that tries to gather sponsorship stats on each developer
[16:33] <robbiew> lol
[16:33]  * slangasek blames all CD problems today on cjwatson 
[16:33] <robbiew> slangasek: isn't that the norm? :P
[16:33] <slangasek> no, I usually blame them on Keybuk
[16:34] <robbiew> somehow that doesn't surprise me
[16:34]  * james_w sponsored two things this morning, with an hour scheduled on Friday for some more
[16:34] <robbiew> anyway, I know you all have tons to do...but please make sure to check the queue when you can
[16:35] <robbiew> [TOPIC] Activity report news
[16:35] <MootBot> New Topic:  Activity report news
[16:35] <robbiew> I haven't read them all...but does anyone have something they want to bring up?
[16:36] <robbiew> taking the silence as a "No!"
[16:36] <mvo> tomorrow is a public holiday in (my part of) germany
[16:36] <robbiew> [TOPIC] Good News
[16:36] <MootBot> New Topic:  Good News
[16:36] <robbiew> mvo: well, that's good news :)
[16:36] <robbiew> for you
[16:36] <robbiew> heh
[16:36] <slangasek> still more merges to be done :)
[16:36] <mvo> :)
[16:37] <robbiew> I got a 73" HDTV coming today :D
[16:37] <slangasek> only 15 merges left under doko's name
[16:37] <Keybuk> robbiew: your performance review went well, then!
[16:37] <cjwatson> lots of my specs appear to be pleasingly small
[16:37] <robbiew> Keybuk: lol...no, my realtor gave me back 2% of her 3% commission ;)
[16:38] <cjwatson> (couple of meaty ones, there's plenty left to do on grub2)
[16:38] <robbiew> cjwatson: yeah...I was worried at first
[16:38] <doko> slangasek: are there some where I should help?
[16:38] <mvo> slangasek: I can help with those as well
[16:38] <evand1> 73"?  I have TV envy.
[16:38] <slangasek> doko, mvo: don't bother with gawk, I'm going to assert my maintainership of the package in Debian and try to get that into a sync
[16:39] <mterry> 'assert my maintainership' sounds so forceful
[16:39] <ogra> evand1, above 50" are only for managers :P
[16:40] <evand1> apparently!
[16:40] <cjwatson> mterry: this is slangasek's manly side
[16:40] <robbiew> #endmeeting
[16:40] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:40.
[16:40] <cjwatson> whoa, I had one AOB
[16:40]  * mvo is pretty impressed after he calculated what 73" means in centimeter
[16:40] <robbiew> heh...i see we've digressed
[16:40] <robbiew> oh
[16:40] <robbiew> sorry
[16:40] <cjwatson> anyway, it's quick
[16:40] <cjwatson> 8.04.3
[16:40] <mterry> cjwatson: Just like yours is going into the woods without a patch system
[16:40] <robbiew> fire away
[16:40] <cjwatson> mterry: hah
[16:40] <robbiew> heh...that's a significant AOB
[16:40] <cjwatson> there are a few things that I think still ought to be cleared up for .3 if possible
[16:41] <cjwatson> evand1: bug 219192
[16:41] <cjwatson> doko (or somebody who can play him on TV): bug 288279
[16:41] <evand1> sure thing
[16:42] <slangasek> mterry: Debian politics... the package was put up for adoption, I adopted it in agreement with the maintainer, someone else is uploading it using maintainer version numbers :)
[16:42] <cjwatson> and it'd be nice if somebody could look at bug 347303 and bug 246625
[16:42] <cjwatson> (maybe not for .3 in the latter two cases)
[16:43] <doko> cjwatson: openjdk-6: I'm tempted to prepare an update for hardy based on the jaunty package
[16:44] <cjwatson> I have one more of my own to take care of, namely bug 250400
[16:45] <robbiew> cjwatson: slangasek: anything else related to 8.04.3?
[16:45] <slangasek> doko: I don't think a wholesale packaging update is appropriate, or likely to clear regression verification in time for .3
[16:45] <cjwatson> that's all from me, dunno about Steve
[16:46] <slangasek> nothing else from me; I'll poke people individually for anything critical
[16:46] <robbiew> okay
[16:46] <robbiew> #reallyendmeeting
[16:46] <robbiew> :)
[16:46] <robbiew> thanks all
[16:46] <mvo> thanks!
[16:46] <slangasek> thanks
[16:46] <liw> gracias
[16:46] <al-maisan> thanks!
[17:58] <ara> hola!
[17:59] <fader> Howdy.
[17:59] <bdmurray> Hi
[17:59] <pedro_> hello folks!
[17:59]  * ogasawara waves
[18:00] <cr3> yo homies
[18:00] <heno> hey everyone!
[18:00] <sbeattie> hey
[18:00] <schwuk> hi
[18:00] <eeejay> yo
[18:01] <heno> #startmeeting
[18:01] <MootBot> Meeting started at 12:01. The chair is heno.
[18:01] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[18:02] <heno> We have a long agenda: UbuntuBugDay highlights -- pedro
[18:02] <pedro_> well there's was no hug day the last week
[18:02] <pedro_> but we are having one tomorrow cof cof
[18:02] <pedro_> based on update-manager and update-notifier
[18:02] <heno> [TOPIC] UbuntuBugDay highlights -- pedro
[18:02] <MootBot> New Topic:  UbuntuBugDay highlights -- pedro
[18:02] <pedro_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/20090611
[18:02] <pedro_> as always everybody is welcome to join us and clean up those products
[18:03] <heno> thanks pedro_
[18:04] <heno> [TOPIC] New bug control members! -- bdmurray
[18:04] <MootBot> New Topic:  New bug control members! -- bdmurray
[18:04] <pedro_> my pleasure
[18:04] <bdmurray> Paul Larson was added as a regular bug control member this past week
[18:04] <mvo> update-manager!
[18:05]  * heno hugs mvo
[18:05]  * mvo hugs heno and pedro_
[18:05] <cr3> ara: regarding those bugs found for the update-manager, these might be good leads when writing desktop tests
[18:05]  * pedro_ hugs mvo back
[18:05] <ara> cr3: indeed
[18:06] <heno> how many update-manager bugs are really u-m bugs and how many belong to other packages (typically)
[18:06] <heno> I'm guessing the u-m GUI itself doesn't have that many real bugs
[18:06] <mvo> heno: hard to say (and I'm biased of course), but I would say > 50% are not really u-m bugs. some are really hard to diagnose though
[18:07] <mvo> I think one problem is that u-m excercises the system a lot during a disk-upgrade so that HW problems show up more likely
[18:07] <mvo> it stresses network, mem and disk-io quite a bit
[18:08] <mvo> at some point I did some statistics, might be worthwhile to redo them
[18:09] <heno> We should look at doing GUI-driven upgrade testing as part of the dist upgrade spec
[18:09] <cr3> mvo: would it be worthwhile to run a sanity check on hardware before running tests in order to detect those kinds of failures beforehand?
[18:09] <heno> if that would help flush out such issues
[18:09] <mvo> cr3: a interessting idea
[18:09] <cr3> mvo: luckily, there are plenty of stress test suites out there already for hardware which could be integrated into checkbox
[18:09] <mvo> heno: absolutely, I hope with "update-manager --sandbox" this is easy(ier) now
[18:10] <cr3> mvo: I'm not completely convinced this would be useful so I'm just throwing the idea on the table
[18:10]  * mvo nods
[18:11] <heno> fortunately the dist upgrade spec is not complete yet ;) so we can consider this
[18:11] <heno> we'll look at that in the last agenda item
[18:11] <heno> moving on ...
[18:11] <heno> [TOPIC] Fridge Calendar Entry - wrong time -- schwuk
[18:11] <MootBot> New Topic:  Fridge Calendar Entry - wrong time -- schwuk
[18:12] <schwuk> heno: in progress
[18:12] <heno> ok
[18:12] <heno> [TOPIC] Official Bug Tags - should apport- stuff be listed? -- bdmurray
[18:12] <MootBot> New Topic:  Official Bug Tags - should apport- stuff be listed? -- bdmurray
[18:13] <bdmurray> Launchpad now suggests the official bug tags when one is adding tags to a bug report and this is something that didn't exist when started the official tags list
[18:14] <bdmurray> I don't believe it useful for tags like apport-crash and apport-bug to be suggested since they should be added automatically
[18:14] <bdmurray> So I'd like to remove them from the "official" tag list
[18:15] <bdmurray> And only keep ones that should be added by people
[18:15] <sbeattie> does "official" status confer anything else to the tag?
[18:15] <heno> does https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Tags otherwise map to the LP official list?
[18:15] <bdmurray> sbeattie: well, they show up in the official portlet vs the "other tags" portlet
[18:16] <bdmurray> but that's the only other advantage I know of
[18:16] <heno> bdmurray: you want to remove them from the LP list (are they there?) or just the wiki page?
[18:16] <bdmurray> heno: some of the ones on the wiki page are experiments (ways to test new tags)
[18:17] <bdmurray> heno: from the lp list so they aren't recommended when someone is adding tags to a bug report
[18:17] <heno> bdmurray: makes sense
[18:17] <bdmurray> heno: they'd stay on the wiki page as they are useful for triagers to understand when or why a tag was added
[18:17] <heno> we could move them to an automatic section on the wiki page too
[18:18] <heno> should we also move the experimental ones or highlight them in grey so we get a clear mapping between the two places?
[18:19] <bdmurray> maybe adding a column for the "official" ones?
[18:19] <heno> anyway +1 for your original suggestion, bdmurray
[18:19] <heno> right, or just mark the others with a '*'
[18:20] <heno> but we're bikesheding ...
[18:20] <schwuk> heno: Fridge entry fixed.
[18:20] <heno> [TOPIC] qa.u.c landing page. Any news? -- ara
[18:20] <MootBot> New Topic:  qa.u.c landing page. Any news? -- ara
[18:20] <ara> I just wanted to ask about how this is going
[18:20] <heno> ok, how about this one :) schwuk ^
[18:21] <schwuk> IS are finally moving on this (after I poked them) but now there's a permissions problem.
[18:21] <cr3> how come the landing page says "ubuntu brainstorm"?
[18:21] <schwuk> cr3: It won't soon :)
[18:21] <cr3> schwuk: how come it did in the first place?
[18:21] <schwuk> cr3: because it's currently served by brainstorm - we're switching it to static content.
[18:22] <cr3> interesting... thanks for the background info
[18:22] <schwuk> heno: I expect this to be complete by next weeks meeting. Hopefully by the end of this week.
[18:22] <heno> the ISO tracker share code and used to share an instance, cr3
[18:22] <heno> schwuk: ok, thanks
[18:23] <heno> schwuk: can you blog about it when it does?
[18:23] <ara> schwuk: thanks
[18:23] <heno> [TOPIC] Testing Days in Karmic -- ara
[18:23] <MootBot> New Topic:  Testing Days in Karmic -- ara
[18:24] <ara> I am wondering when should we start again with the testing days
[18:24] <schwuk> heno: of course
[18:24] <ara> do you think we are late enough in the cycle to start with them?
[18:25] <heno> Might be good time for a Hardy.3 SRU testing day
[18:25] <heno> or possibly Jaunty SRUs?
[18:25] <sbeattie> heno: hrm, yeah, makes sense
[18:25] <heno> sbeattie: which one? :)
[18:25] <sbeattie> both, honestly.
[18:26] <ara> :)
[18:26] <heno> ara: things like grub2 and ext4 default are landing
[18:26] <sbeattie> though hardy.3 should come soon, given upcoming deadline.
[18:26] <heno> it's early for Gnome stuff though
[18:26] <sbeattie> yes, I think there's enough stuff landing already that karmic testing days make sense.
[18:26] <heno> pedro_: when should we expect the first Gnome drops?
[18:27] <heno> ara: reminds us of the topic suggestion URL?
[18:28] <ara> heno: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/UbuntuTestingDay/Features
[18:28] <heno> ok, let's add our ideas there
[18:29] <pedro_> heno: IIRC next week we might have some new packages with Gnome 2.27 on karmic
[18:29] <heno> should we aim for an SRU testing day next Monday?
[18:29] <sbeattie> heno: that's reasonable.
[18:29] <heno> sbeattie: which ever release is most pressing, or both
[18:30] <heno> pedro_: does it make sense to get formal testing of that or is it too raw?
[18:32] <pedro_> it's a bit raw now, I'd wait for 2.27.4 or .5 which is due to July for doing a more formal testing
[18:32] <heno> ok
[18:33] <pedro_> Jul 15 2.27.4 and Jul 29  2.27.5 for being more specific
[18:33] <heno> ara: is that enough to get us started?
[18:33] <ara> heno: sure, we can start with srus, then ext4 and/or grub2 and then move to gnome stuff
[18:34] <heno> ok, great
[18:34] <ara> sbeattie: for next monday hardy or jaunty?
[18:34] <heno> there are also some new Karmic features listed here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Specs/RegressionImmunisation
[18:34] <sbeattie> Right now, hardy, but I may expand it to cover jaunty as well.
[18:34] <sbeattie> ara ^
[18:35] <heno> speaking of which ...
[18:35] <heno> [TOPIC] SRU Verifications -- sbeattie
[18:35] <MootBot> New Topic:  SRU Verifications -- sbeattie
[18:35] <sbeattie> First, thanks to Alexei Mokeev, ZelinskiyIS, gidantribal, medisoft, ded, and Patryk Bajer for testing SRUs and helping to get them out.
[18:36] <sbeattie> And second, as mentioned above, 8.04.3 is coming (july 9th I believe).
[18:36] <heno> sbeattie: do we know when the verification deadline is?
[18:36] <sbeattie> Hrm, no, I'll ask slangasek.
[18:37] <sbeattie> But I would expect a week or two before.
[18:37] <heno> ok
[18:37] <sbeattie> Sine there'll be a run up time of image testing.
[18:37] <heno> right
[18:38] <heno> how many images are we doing now, just Ubuntu server?
[18:38] <sbeattie> hrm, once again, I don't recall if we're spinning desktop images as well.
[18:39] <sbeattie> The calendar at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HardyReleaseSchedule doesn't say
[18:39] <heno> ok
[18:39] <heno> next
[18:39] <heno> [TOPIC] Spec Roadmap review -- heno
[18:39] <MootBot> New Topic:  Spec Roadmap review -- heno
[18:39] <heno> see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/RoadMap
[18:40] <heno> it's looking better, but there are still gaps
[18:40] <heno> let's go down the list of non-Approved specs and get some drafting ETAs
[18:41] <heno> Specialization Within bug-control
[18:41] <heno> pedro_: ^?
[18:41] <pedro_> I'm a bit behind with my spec, since i wasn't around the last week but i hope to have that drafted by the end of the week
[18:42] <bdmurray> What's the (i) for on that page?
[18:42] <heno> pedro_: right, do you need some help drafting?
[18:42] <pedro_> for hopefully having more opinions on the subject from the community team
[18:42] <heno> bdmurray: informational
[18:42] <heno> I should add it to the key :)
[18:42] <pedro_> heno: that'd be nice :-)
[18:43] <heno> ogasawara: Package Greasemonkey Scripts ?
[18:43] <ogasawara> heno: hoping to get it done by end of the week since I just became the drafter yesterday
[18:43] <heno> understood
[18:44] <heno> ogasawara: could you also add the two kernel bug specs to that page?
[18:44] <bdmurray> I'll be helping out with that one
[18:44] <ogasawara> heno: will do
[18:44] <heno> bdmurray: great, thanks
[18:44] <heno> fader: Extended Audio Testing ?
[18:45] <fader> Hoping to get it done today, but I'll promise no later than EOD tomorrow.
[18:45] <fader> (i.e. you can hold me to that :) )
[18:46] <heno> ok. we talked about what needs doing to it
[18:46] <heno> sounds good
[18:46] <heno> ogasawara: Suspend Resume Testing - same situation on that one I guess
[18:46] <ogasawara> heno: yup
[18:47] <heno> to be fair I made up that spec yesterday ...
[18:47] <ogasawara> :)
[18:47] <heno> sbeattie: Distribution Upgrade Testing ?
[18:48] <heno> I think you said we should ask mvo to look at that one too https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Specs/DistributionUpgradeTesting
[18:48] <sbeattie> Yep, if mvo could help flash that out, it'd be great.
[18:48] <heno> same goes for james_w with the package testing spec
[18:48] <cr3> sbeattie: yeah, I'd like to see mvo "flash" too!
[18:49] <heno> sbeattie: can we set an ETA though?
[18:49] <sbeattie> heno: otherwise, by end of the week.
[18:49] <cr3> james_w: if you need help with that spec, I'm your man
[18:49] <heno> ok, thanks
[18:49] <maco> what a line to enter the buffer on
[18:50] <schwuk> maco: you should be used to cr3 by now
[18:50] <heno> I guess mgunes isn't here
[18:51] <heno> Testing Weather Report still needs some drafting
[18:52] <heno> like answering the python vs. ruby question :)
[18:52] <heno> I can poke some more at that too
[18:52] <heno> schwuk: the 2 checkbox specs?
[18:53] <schwuk> heno: enhancements tomorrow, wishlist friday
[18:53] <heno> again to be fair, we've regrouped those a great deal
[18:53] <heno> schwuk: ok, thanks
[18:53] <schwuk> yeah - there's a lot folded into those
[18:54] <heno> cr3: the checkbox filters spec - draft or punt to Karmic+1?
[18:54] <cr3> heno: draft, I totally forgot about that one
[18:55] <heno> ok, thanks
[18:55] <heno> now: who has started implementation work?
[18:55] <heno> o/ :)
[18:56]  * fader hides.
[18:56] <cr3> o/... I couldn't help myself :(
[18:56] <cr3> (note that the dots under my arm pit emoticon aren't stink waves)
[18:56] <heno> that's not really expected though :)
[18:57] <heno> we'll revisit the list in 3-4 weeks to look at implementation progress
[18:57] <heno> did I leave any key specs off that list?
[18:58] <cr3> karmic-qa-marc-needs-to-grow-up?
[18:58] <schwuk> lol
[18:58] <james_w> cr3: am I drafting the package testing one?
[18:58] <heno> eeejay: are you planning to write a separate Ubiquity automation spec?
[18:59] <heno> If so, let me know if you need a hand scoping it out
[18:59] <cr3> james_w: actually, I believe fader is, so you're probably off the hook... for now
[18:59] <fader> james_w: I'm drafting one but there's another as well
[18:59] <james_w> excellent :-)
[18:59] <eeejay> heno: sure, i could do that
[18:59] <fader> james_w: I'm not sure who is drafting it though -- I thought it was you :/
[18:59] <cr3> fader: could you let us know the url for the spec, I can't seem to find it
[18:59] <james_w> fader: let's chat after
[19:00] <heno> james_w: I understand you are involved with a related package spec on the foundation track?
[19:00] <fader> james_w, cr3: Sounds good, we can straighten this out after the meeting
[19:00] <cr3> james_w: heno is referring to the last session during uds
[19:00] <heno> eeejay: great, we can talk later
[19:00] <james_w> heno: yeah, myself and mvo are interested in much the same things as your team apparently, so we're going to combine efforts
[19:00] <heno> sounds good
[19:01] <heno> we are at time
[19:01] <james_w> we didn't have a clear picture of what would happen this cycle and who would do what after the session though, so we agreed to discuss it after UDS
[19:01] <heno> any other urgent business?
[19:01] <heno> james_w: makes sense
[19:01] <heno> we are just emerging from that phase ourselves ;)
[19:02] <heno> #endmeeting
[19:02] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 13:02.
[19:02] <heno> thanks everyone!
[19:02] <james_w> thanks all
[19:02] <pedro_> thanks you!
[19:03] <ara> cheers
[19:03] <sbeattie> thanks!
[19:03]  * fader waves.