[01:49] <djsiegel> rickspencer3: http://blog.davebsd.com/2009/06/10/one-hundred-paper-cuts/ what do you think?
[07:27] <didrocks> morning o/
[07:32] <pitti> Good morning
[07:43] <crevette> good morning
[08:17] <seb128> good morning everybody
[08:18] <pitti> hey seb128
[08:18] <seb128> hello pitti
[08:18] <crevette> heya seb128 & pitti
[08:18] <seb128> lut crevette davidbarth
[08:31] <didrocks> hey seb128
[08:32] <seb128> lut didrocks!
[08:32] <seb128> ca va ?
[08:32] <didrocks> ça va (il fait presque beau -> il ne pleut pas), et toi ?
[08:33] <seb128> un peu pareil
[08:35] <crevette> :)
[08:45] <davidbarth> salut seb128
[10:16] <seb128> ok, enough bug triage for this morning
[10:37] <crevette> asac, one more new information for your bluetooth spec, obex-data-server is dropped in favor of obexd in next release of gnome-bluetooth (to be issued soon)
[10:37] <asac> crevette: is debian on it already?
[10:37] <crevette> and obexd is not in ubuntu
[10:38] <crevette> and not in debian
[10:38] <crevette> (hello by the way)
[10:38] <asac> hi ;)
[10:40] <asac> crevette: you know the gnome-bt version that will need obexd?
[10:40] <crevette> 2.27.6
[10:42] <asac> updated spec. thanks
[11:29]  * seb128 kicks karmic xorg or intel driver
[11:30] <seb128> something is eating ram over time there
[11:31]  * soren concurs with seb128
[11:34] <seb128> I knew that upgrading my laptop to karmic early in the cycle was not a good idea, next cycle I will do the usual "install GNOME unstable versions only keep everything else to stable" ;-)
[11:35] <cassidy> the intel driver is worst than Jaunty's one ?
[11:35] <soren> Really? I feel like i upgraded late this time. I usually "upgrade" as soon as the development release opens. I like the pain.
[11:36] <pitti> seb128: what's broken now?
[11:36] <pitti> oh, RAM leak?
[11:36] <seb128> pitti: xorg eating my 2Go of RAM and 3.5Go of swap after some hours
[11:36] <pitti> does that have an upstream bug already?
[11:37] <pitti> doesn't seem to happen here
[11:37] <seb128> no, I only noticed yesterday that it was due to xorg, before I just noticed that my system was swapping so much that I had to press the power button
[11:37] <pitti> well, I'm on xorg-edgers, though, so newer mesa/-intel might not have that
[11:37] <pitti> (ugh)
[11:37] <seb128> and I'm not sure what informations would be useful
[11:38] <seb128> I get "all RAM and swap is used after an undefined amount of time" is not really useful
[11:38] <pitti> cjwatson mentioned a tool to display X.org resource usage
[11:38] <seb128> will talk to the #ubuntu-x guys about it after lunch
[11:38] <seb128> get -> guess
[11:38] <seb128> well, I guess it's xorg
[11:39] <seb128> nothing in top has very excessive ram use
[11:39] <seb128> out of compiz which was using 1G of virtual memory
[11:39] <seb128> and xorg 600meg
[11:39] <seb128> so I guess it's xorg
[11:40] <seb128> pitti: bug #312396, you did a typo in the tag and should it be set on verification-done? the user who unset the tag confirmed that the change is working
[11:41] <pitti> seb128: it was -needed before, so I just restored it; if you think it's tested, feel free to flip it to -done
[11:41] <seb128> pitti: see comment #25
[11:42] <seb128> ok, will do
[11:43] <pitti> merci
[12:16] <crevette> asac, does your bluetoothStack spec covers also file reception?
[12:19] <crevette> hmm, yeah, it is covered, so you should also talk about gnome-user-share which implement the bluetooth file reception, and gnome-user-share only relies on obex-data-server.
[12:20] <asac> crevette: add your input to the Comments section on the wiki
[12:30] <cassidy> pitti: about https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/telepathy-gabble/+bug/384677 can I see build logs somewhere?
[12:31] <cassidy> pitti: and I'd be interested in more info about "audio and video chat are pretty much completely broken"
[12:34] <pitti> cassidy: they aren't failing to build, but waiting for libtelepathy-glib-dev (>= 0.7.31)
[12:34] <pitti> cassidy: and that one fails to build because of a test failure
[12:35] <pitti> kenvandine will investigate that, I think he can reproduce it locally
[12:35] <pitti> cassidy: as for the A/V, I tried that at UDS and at home (thus local wifi and DSL), and they just cause empathy to hang, and no audio
[12:35] <pitti> cassidy: but these should get proper bug reports
[12:35] <pitti> does that work for you?
[12:35] <cassidy> yes
[12:35] <cassidy> which empathy version were you using ?
[12:36] <pitti> cassidy: (don't get me wrong, I do want the entire stack in main, just figuring out requirements and who will look after the packages)
[12:36] <pitti> cassidy: 2.27.2-1ubuntu1, karmic current
[12:36] <cassidy> should be ok
[12:36] <pitti> cassidy: btw, do you know whether it's possible somehow to configure the audio device to be used?
[12:37] <pitti> I'd like to use my USB headset, not the internal speaker/mic
[12:38] <cassidy> if you use pulseaudio, you can redirect the stream using pavucontrol
[12:39] <pitti> ah
[12:40] <pitti> ok, I'll try that once I actually get a connection with empathy
[12:48] <andreasn> can anyone help me with a screenshot of the tabs in Firefox using the Human theme?
[12:49] <andreasn> I need to kill a bug
[12:57] <crevette> hey andreasn
[12:57] <andreasn> hello crevette!
[13:03] <andreasn> crevette, my friend, I need some help from you
[13:03] <crevette> I can hardly help you as I'm at work but shout my friend
[13:03] <crevette> :)
[13:04] <andreasn> can you use the Human theme, launch Firefox, open up a couple of tabs and screenshot that for me?
[13:04] <seb128> andreasn: what distro are you using? ;-)
[13:04] <crevette> andreasn, sorry not before tonight, during the day I work with only windows machine
[13:05] <andreasn> seb128, Ubuntu, but I broke it
[13:05] <andreasn> so I need a screenshot of a unbroken Human-icon-theme
[13:05] <andreasn> but apparently it's impossible on The Internet today
[13:05] <seb128> wait
[13:07] <seb128> andreasn: http://people.ubuntu.com/~seb128/firefox.png
[13:08] <andreasn> seb128, thank you!!
[13:08] <seb128> you're welcome
[13:12] <andreasn> is kwwii on vacation this week?
[13:12] <kenvandine> pitti: do you have a build log for your telepathy-gabble build failure?
[13:13] <seb128> kenvandine: he said before that it's build-waiting due to the other telepathy-glib or something not building
[13:14] <seb128> no?
[13:14] <kenvandine> oh
[13:14] <kenvandine> maybe i missread
[13:14] <seb128> kenvandine: juin 11 13:35:31 <pitti>	cassidy: they aren't failing to build, but waiting for libtelepathy-glib-dev (>= 0.7.31)
[13:14] <kenvandine> in the bug he said it doesn't build
[13:14] <kenvandine> Package still doesn't build.
[13:14] <seb128> right
[13:14] <seb128> because it depwait
[13:15] <kenvandine> ok, it doesn't say that
[13:15] <seb128> maybe I'm wrong
[13:15] <seb128> but that what he wrote on the chan half an hour ago
[13:15] <kenvandine> ok
[13:15] <kenvandine> depwait makes sense
[13:16] <seb128> juin 11 13:31:15 <cassidy>	pitti: about https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/telepathy-gabble/+bug/384677 can I see build logs somewhere?
[13:16] <seb128> juin 11 13:35:31 <pitti>	cassidy: they aren't failing to build, but waiting for libtelepathy-glib-dev (>= 0.7.31)
[13:16] <seb128> juin 11 13:35:41 <pitti>	cassidy: and that one fails to build because of a test failure
[13:16] <seb128>  
[13:16] <seb128> that was the channel discussion
[13:16] <seb128> to me it seems you should fix telepathy-glib first
[13:16] <seb128> then we can see what's going on next
[13:19] <kenvandine> yeah
[13:19] <kenvandine> working on it
[13:20] <kenvandine> just thought there might be more broken than i expected
[13:21] <seb128> don't worry too much, fix that and we will see what comes next
[13:44] <pitti> kenvandine: right, once -glib builds, -gabble will buildl automatically
[13:44] <kenvandine> pitti: ok, good
[13:44] <kenvandine> i was worried :)
[13:45] <pitti> yeah, sorry for not being clearer
[13:45] <kenvandine> i am trying to get a telepathy guy to look at that problem
[13:45] <kenvandine> no worries
[13:47] <Ampelbein> hi. i've been requesting sync for gnome-doc-utils, bug 385206. dholbach pointed out, that I missed a change, here the translations-template update (running intltool-update -p). But it seems to me that this change isn't necessary anymore, a diff between the (extracted) contents of the debian and ubuntu *.deb show no differences. Yet I can't find a hint in the changelog that the intltool update isn't necessary anymore. Can someone give
[13:47] <Ampelbein> me a hint on where to look?
[14:46] <chrisccoulson> Ampelbein - did you figure out the answer to your question?
[14:47] <Ampelbein> chrisccoulson: yeah, i did. daniel answered in the bugreport. it's about creating pot-file used for translations in rosetta. didn't know that before, now i do ;-)
[14:50] <chrisccoulson> yeah, that's what i was going to say. you wouldn't have noticed a difference in the binary packages you built, but if you build with pkgbinarymangler installed in your pbuilder you would notice that there is no template in the extracted package
[14:50] <chrisccoulson> you can pass "--extrapackages pkgbinarymangler" to pbuilder to extract the template
[14:51] <pedro_> does anybody knows why we're using wodim instead of cdrecord in brasero?
[14:52] <Ampelbein> chrisccoulson: oh, ok. thanks, I think this is useful for future merges I do. I get it that this represents the buildd-environment more exactly?
[14:52] <seb128> pedro_: because cdrecord is not opensource and wodim is a free cdrecord version made by debian
[14:53] <chrisccoulson> Ampelbein - yeah, i think it does. you can also install pkg-create-dbgsym in your pbuilder to build the *-dbgsym packages too
[14:53] <pitti> rickspencer3: hello
[14:53] <rickspencer3> hi pitti
[14:53] <pitti> rickspencer3: can you give me a pointer to your pychart script?
[14:53] <seb128> pedro_: or rather the cdrecord license makes it not suitable for debian and ubuntu
[14:53] <rickspencer3> pitti: sure
[14:53] <pedro_> seb128: eek, ok good to know, thanks
[14:53] <rickspencer3> let me add it as a branch to lp, and I'll paste you a link
[14:53] <pitti> rickspencer3: I wrote the data gathering script yesterday (not sure whether you saw my mail)
[14:54] <seb128> pedro_: you're welcome
[14:54] <pitti> rickspencer3: depending on how complex it is, I could either integrate it into workitems.py or call it
[14:54] <rickspencer3> pitti: yes, I saw the email, but haven't had a chance to read it
[14:54] <seb128> pedro_: but wodim is basically a modified cdrecord ... any issue due to it?
[14:54] <rickspencer3> I think it would be a simple matter to modify the pychart script to take a couple of arguments
[14:54] <pitti> rickspencer3: i. e. create text output from sql commands, or just call pychart directly
[14:55] <rickspencer3> I think it would be handy to call it, so that we can get consistency, but either way I'm fine
[14:56] <pedro_> seb128: well it seems that most of the issues on brasero not being able to burn or giving issues after burn are due to it, but the problems are resolved using cdrecord , that's why i was asking
[14:57] <seb128> where did you get that?
[14:57] <chrisccoulson> mpt - i implemented your spec at http://live.gnome.org/LowDiskSpaceWarning now. Do you feel like trying it out at all?
[15:08] <rickspencer3> pitti: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~rick-rickspencer3/+junk/py-burndown-chart
[15:22] <hyperair> seb128: re bug #385801, if you don't mind, may i shorten "other people" to "others"? the string looks pretty long =\
[15:23] <seb128> hyperair: the question was rather for the design team if they decide that's a hundredpapercut issue
[15:23] <seb128> which I think it's not
[15:23] <hyperair> hmm it's not?
[15:24] <hyperair> seb128: i think the write in this folder isn't exactly confusing terminology, but on the other hand, the other half of the bug (Comments being in the middle of nowhere) is confusing.
[15:24] <hyperair> s/Comments/Comment
[15:25] <seb128> I've not even read this half, one bug should describe one issue and clearly ;-)
[15:36] <hyperair> seb128: tell that to the bug reporter =)
[15:36] <seb128> I don't care enough about the issue to reopen the bug in my webbrowser, feel free to comment if you want
[15:36] <hyperair> heh
[15:36] <hyperair> launchpad's email interface ftw =p
[15:37] <seb128> I would have to find the email corresponding to the bug, slower than clicking on the url there ;-)
[15:38] <hyperair> hahah right
[15:38] <hyperair> =p
[15:41] <alex-weej> seb128: is the new gnome-volume control stuff planned for karmic?
[15:41] <alex-weej> i've been using it in jaunty and it's been absolutely fine. maybe we should add a button that opens the hardware mixer though?
[15:42] <seb128> alex-weej: the new one is fine if pulseaudio works for you ;-)
[15:42] <seb128> alex-weej: which is still not the case on all hardwares
[15:42] <seb128> alex-weej: it doesn't start on non pulse configs
[15:43] <alex-weej> well given that we install pulseaudio by default (no?)
[15:43] <alex-weej> shouldn't the non-pulse case be the exception?
[15:43] <alex-weej> i.e. uninstall pulse, install old-volume-control
[15:43] <seb128> what old volume control?
[15:43] <alex-weej> the non-pulse one
[15:44] <seb128> there is no non pulse set
[15:44] <alex-weej> msry wat?
[15:44] <seb128> ?
[15:44] <alex-weej> i don't understand
[15:44] <seb128> GNOME supports pulseaudio only in 2.26
[15:44] <seb128> if you do that you can use multimedia keys in gnome-settings-daemon when not running pulseaudio for example
[15:45] <seb128> there is not a second gnome-settings-daemon-alsa version
[15:45] <asac> ArneGoetje: what was the nick/name of the romanian translator at UDS (was quite actively contributing)
[15:45] <seb128> so going pulse only meant "screw you people if pulse don't work on your config"
[15:45] <seb128> we might do that in karmic ;-)
[15:45] <seb128> but I'm still not sure that's a clever move
[15:45] <alex-weej> seb128: it's probably about time.
[15:46] <alex-weej> seb128: we can't let legacy stuff hold us back, but you are right to be cautious
[15:46] <seb128> you probably say that because pulse works fine on your hardware
[15:46] <alex-weej> the reality is it will have been 18 month since we introduced PA as default
[15:46] <ArneGoetje> asac: Adi Roiban
[15:46] <alex-weej> and anything that hasn't caught up has had enough of a chance
[15:46] <seb128> there is a difference between pulse by default
[15:46] <seb128> and not letting people use alsa
[15:47] <seb128> not to mention that the new GNOME capplet cut some feature that worked in the gstreamer version of the capplet
[15:47] <seb128> ie the ability to configure ac3 and that sort of things
[15:47] <alex-weej> seb128: exactly -- that stuff is for the "hardware mixer" or whatever you want to call it
[15:47] <seb128> that's catching up, but running on new interface the cycle they are designed is not always optimal
[15:47] <alex-weej> i've been resorting to alsamixer -c0 to turn on and off my obscure hardware options
[15:48] <alex-weej> we just need a button in the sound prefs that launches the hardware controls
[15:48] <mib_dg74kw7p> i have not been on linux in a long time, but how do i set uid or permissions to devices or view them too :/
[15:48] <seb128> well, so what do you win in the new world compared to the mixer using gstreamer having those option and working with pulse and alsa?
[15:48] <alex-weej> mib_dg74kw7p: #ubuntu
[15:48] <seb128> and where is this hardware control dialog in GNOME?
[15:48] <mib_dg74kw7p> thanks alex-weej
[15:48] <alex-weej> seb128: you gain per app controls!
[15:48] <alex-weej> i can turn flash down!
[15:49] <asac> ArneGoetje: do you know if he has a nick?
[15:49] <asac> or email?
[15:49] <alex-weej> anyway i didn't come here to defend its case
[15:49] <alex-weej> was just wondering
[15:49] <alex-weej> 'cause i used to be a pulse-hater but lately it's been really, really good to me
[15:49] <seb128> we might do the switch for karmic since that's a new technologies cycle
[15:49] <alex-weej> was wondering if that was the consensus yet
[15:49] <seb128> but that's going to make users unhappy
[15:50] <alex-weej> fedora do it, no?
[15:50] <seb128> those for who alsa is working better than pulse and that will have to go to debian or something to get sound working again
[15:50] <seb128> fedora doesn't care about lusers
[15:50] <seb128> they want to be a technology reference
[15:50] <alex-weej> seb128: the g-s-d stuff... hotkeys work fine for me on my setup
[15:50] <alex-weej> whether i'm using pulse or alsa...
[15:50] <seb128> and if you own something which doesn't work in their world suck to be you
[15:51] <seb128> alex-weej: that's because we did distro patch it to still use gstreamer and not pulse directly as upstream does ;-)
[15:51] <alex-weej> seb128: same could be said of a piece of hardware that only has drivers for Linux 2.4
[15:51] <seb128> alex-weej: you live in your own little world apparently, have a look to https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pulseaudio/+bugs
[15:51] <alex-weej> my little world rocks
[15:51] <alex-weej> everyone should come join
[15:51] <seb128> alex-weej: there is lot of cases where pulse create a not so good user experience
[15:52] <seb128> latency in playing
[15:52] <seb128> sound skipping
[15:53] <seb128> anyway i'm not interested to debate that for hours
[15:53] <seb128> we will probably follow upstream this cycle
[15:53] <seb128> but it was judged not ready for karmic
[15:53] <seb128> jaunty
[15:53] <ArneGoetje> asac: adi@roiban.ro
[15:53] <seb128> I our users appreciated to have the option
[15:53] <asac> thx
[15:54] <ArneGoetje> asac: he is also a memeber of the Ubuntu Translation Coordinators team.
[15:54] <mclasen> seb128: I think thats a bit of an unfair characterization
[15:54] <seb128> mclasen: which one?
[15:54] <mclasen> that we don't care about users
[15:54] <seb128> let's say we don't have the same userbase then
[15:55] <seb128> we have lot of users unhappy about pulse and we have to listen to them
[15:56] <asac> ArneGoetje: right. i am trying to get him connected with the mozilla translation coordinators because of the unique situation that RO translators face in GNOME vs. KDE/Windows
[15:56] <ArneGoetje> asac: uh yeah... tricky problem...
[17:03] <pitti> asac: \o/  http://cgit.freedesktop.org/NetworkManager/NetworkManager/commit/?id=c9067d8fedf6f6f2d530fd68bbfca7ce68638d38
[17:03] <pitti> what a hell of a commit
[17:04] <james_w> hey pitti
[17:05] <james_w> would it make sense to have a devicekit test day or similar?
[17:07] <pitti> james_w: in which context, sprint or hug day or so?
[17:07] <pitti> james_w: in general, people should report regressions as bugs, but if you have some ideas how to channel that, I'm all ears
[17:08] <james_w> one of the test days that the QA team have been running
[17:08] <james_w> where you can ask people to test a specific thing, with documentation and help in filing good bugs
[17:09] <james_w> to try and look for regressions and quickly get them fixed
[17:09] <seb128> I think it's still a bit early in the cycle for that
[17:11] <seb128> pitti: what is david's (translations, community) irc nickname again?
[17:12] <seb128> or somebody else who knows? ;-)
[17:12] <pitti> seb128: spm
[17:12] <pitti> sorry
[17:12] <seb128> thanks
[17:12] <pitti> seb128: dpm
[17:12] <seb128> hum, no there
[17:18] <james_w> seb128: oh, I agree it's too early, I just wondered if it would be a good thing to have later
[17:18] <seb128> could be
[17:18] <seb128> we have lot of things changing this cycle
[17:18] <seb128> default application selections for example too
[17:18] <james_w> true
[17:20] <pitti> james_w: I guess before that happens I'd need to write some good debugging instructions
[17:20] <james_w> yeah, that would be great
[17:20] <pitti> james_w: I sort of hoped to get symptom based apport reporting working for that first
[17:21] <james_w> even nicer
[17:21] <james_w> I suppose "ask pitti" aren't good enough debugging instructions?
[17:22] <pitti> james_w: doesn't scale so well :)
[17:22] <pitti> besides, I'm quite new in that DK-{disks,power} business myself
[17:22] <pitti> and I need to build up some knowledge there
[17:23] <pitti> or convince Keybuk to take over DK-* maintenance :-P
[17:23] <pitti> but for now it's on my plate
[17:58] <pmatulis> how does one remove all packages associated with the ubuntu-desktop meta-package?
[18:06] <pitti> pmatulis: something like
[18:06] <pitti> sudo dpkg -P `apt-cache show ubuntu-desktop|egrep '^(Depends|Recommends):'|sed 's/,//g'
[18:06] <pitti> ?
[18:06] <pmatulis> pitti: ha ha, you serious?
[18:06] <pitti> pmatulis: if you want transitive dependencies as well, try sudo apt-get purge --auto-remove ... instead
[18:07] <pitti> pmatulis: well, are you? :-)
[18:07] <pmatulis> pitti: very!
[18:07] <pitti> (first time I hear that request)
[18:08] <pmatulis> pitti: will try, do you think there should be a built-in option?  i sure do
[18:08] <pitti> pmatulis: ubuntu --self-destruct?
[18:08] <pmatulis> pitti: i had a server install, then a desktop, now i want my server back
[18:08] <pitti> pmatulis: --auto-remove normally removes dependencies, but we deliberately mark all packages as "not auto-installed", since many people just want to remove one or two
[18:10] <pmatulis> pitti: what is a transitive dependency?
[18:11] <pitti> pmatulis: if a depends on b, and b depends on c, then c is a transitive dependency of a
[18:13] <pmatulis> pitti: ok
[18:15] <SiDi> hi
[18:17] <asac> pitti: guess that means we should get packages up from latest asap ;) to see how bad the regressions are ;)
[18:18] <pitti> asac: hehe
[18:21] <pitti> asac: btw, kay says that connman doesn't use hal
[18:21] <asac> pitti: yeah. i think we need libgudev in archive soonish
[18:21] <pitti> asac: like this?
[18:21] <pitti> libgudev-1.0-dev | 20090606+1-1 |        karmic | amd64, i386
[18:22] <asac> thats great
[18:22] <asac> perfect
[18:22]  * pitti keeps udev-extras pretty much at git head these days
[18:22] <pitti> I just commit stuff there and merge, instead of fiddling with patches
[18:23] <asac> hmm was lumped into udev-extras
[18:23] <asac> thought it was a standalone upstream project
[18:23] <pitti> asac: will be merged into udev soon, but that's a detail
[18:23] <pitti> good night everyone, have to go
[18:23] <asac> pitti: cu tomorrow
[18:27] <Keybuk> pitti: I thought it was only on your plate because you wanted it there ;)
[19:22] <maple> HELLO
[19:23] <maple> hello everybody
[19:28] <SiDi> hm, hello
[19:33] <maple> ?
[19:55] <pitti> Keybuk: I do (just kidding)
[21:34]  * kenvandine1 is very unhappy... thinkpad just spontaneously turned off
[21:34] <johanbr> kenvandine1: karmic?
[21:34] <kenvandine1> yes
[21:34] <kenvandine1> but not software
[21:34] <kenvandine1> it won't turn on...
[21:34] <johanbr> oh... :(
[21:34] <kenvandine1> and no indicator that the power is even plugged in :/
[21:35] <johanbr> I've had some problems with the new gnome-power-manager turning off my machine.
[21:35] <johanbr> I thought you had the same thing.
[21:35] <kenvandine1> oh... i haven't had that
[21:35] <kenvandine1> i am glad i have a warranty
[21:35]  * kenvandine1 digs up lenovo's contact info
[21:44] <joaopinto> kenvandine, have you tried to remove the battery for some minutes ?
[21:44] <kenvandine> yup
[21:44] <joaopinto> :|
[21:44] <joaopinto> my problems with thinkpads are usually solved with that :\
[21:48] <davmor2> kenvandine: feel under the fan if it's hot I found the the pad of heatsink gel had died and was acting as an insulator.  I removed the heatsink cleaned of the cpu and put on some fresh gel fixed :)
[21:52] <kenvandine> i am on the phone with lenovo... they got it back up, but need to run hardware diagnostics, something is bad
[21:52] <kenvandine> had to discharge the compacitors to get it on
[21:53] <kenvandine> this is not what i wanted to do this afternoon :/
[23:08] <djsiegel3> Ok guys
[23:08] <djsiegel3> what do you think of changing Appearance > Interface > Toolbar button labels to Icons only by default?
[23:09] <SiDi> im for icons + text
[23:11] <djsiegel3> What about just for nautilus?
[23:12] <djsiegel3> The nautilus toolbar is almost identical to firefox, safari, chrome and other web browsers
[23:12] <djsiegel3> and that default nautilus window is out of control
[23:12] <djsiegel3> it's so complicated, with so many controls
[23:12]  * SiDi uses Thunar
[23:12] <djsiegel3> haha, ok, you don't count, smartypants
[23:12] <SiDi> :)
[23:13] <SiDi> actually youre right, ive got only icons in Thunar
[23:13] <SiDi> but nautilus has far more icons, you have to make sure the icon set will look consistent enough for the user to guess what its for
[23:13] <SiDi> which the text is a convenient way for
[23:14] <djsiegel3> yeah, an icon designer friend just explained that so many toolbar icons are too vague
[23:14] <djsiegel3> they need text
[23:14] <djsiegel3> hmm, why do we have stop and refresh buttons in nautilus?
[23:14] <djsiegel3> I have used refresh maybe once or twice
[23:15] <djsiegel3> but it seems like a power user thing, to understand that your file browser is out of sync and to need to refresh
[23:15] <SiDi> refresh can be practical on remote folders browsing
[23:15] <SiDi> as for stop.. no idea
[23:30] <Nafallo> kenvandine: https://code.launchpad.net/~nafallo/gajim/sru if you want to play with your patch before I try and get an SRU for it.
[23:30] <Nafallo> kenvandine: actually. 0.12.2 apparently have 2 critical bugs, so a 0.12.3 is pending delivery from upstream ;-)