[20:37] <ubu-noob> I have an idea, but I need help fleshing it out.
[20:40] <ubu-noob> Any replies?
[20:40] <SiDi> hi
[20:40] <SiDi> whats the idea ?
[20:40] <ubu-noob> Thanks Sidi
[20:40] <ubu-noob> Ok. I'll give it in chunks.
[20:41] <ubu-noob> From my understanding, Ubuntu is very much like Debian.  There are various teams, who mostly build and test packages.
[20:41] <ubu-noob> Now, there's nothing wrong with that.
[20:42] <ubu-noob> What I'm interested in, is conveying the following thought:
[20:43] <ubu-noob> Ubuntu shouldn't just be about developing software.  It should be about developing satsisfying user experiences.
[20:43] <ubu-noob> satisfying
[20:43] <ubu-noob> So, even though we have this working base of code
[20:43] <ubu-noob> and these teams that repackage (mostly)
[20:43] <SiDi> Do you think the whole ayatana process is only coding ? :(
[20:44] <ubu-noob> No, ... but wait to what I'm getting at... (please :)
[20:44] <ubu-noob> I think we should be concerned with the impressions people have of using Ubuntu
[20:44]  * SiDi waits.
[20:44] <ubu-noob> thanks
[20:45] <ubu-noob> I mean, it is good to develop Use Cases for what various users are experiencing from using Ubuntu
[20:46] <ubu-noob> Maybe I'm a new user, and I've only heard about Ubuntu.  Then I go to Ubuntu.com and and am interested in trying it out, but maybe I find the website confusing, and I'm unsure of what a LiveCD even is.
[20:46] <SiDi> I still don't see your point
[20:46] <ubu-noob> Or perhaps I don't even know I can just download the iso and boot off a usb stick
[20:47] <ubu-noob> OK..  I'll push along
[20:47] <ubu-noob> I mean, we have all these teams assembling the parts that go into Ubuntu
[20:47] <ubu-noob> but where are the teams that are asking users how they feel about their experiences of using Ubuntu?
[20:48] <SiDi> There is a team that helps explaining what ubuntu is (documentation), another that helps saying that ubuntu exists (marketing), another that works on making it more agreable to use (ayatana / user experience). What do you think that could be improved / that is lacking ?
[20:48] <ubu-noob> A good question
[20:48] <ubu-noob> I would say
[20:48] <SiDi> Hm, actually we have quite a lot of feedback already, if thats what you mean. But its true its only feedback from people that take upon themselves to give it to us
[20:48] <ubu-noob> Well, for one thing, after you complete a new install.
[20:49] <ubu-noob> I think I'm not the only person who completed a new install, and then said to myself ... OK, so what am I supposed to do now?
[20:49] <ubu-noob> Here I am looking at a blank desktop.
[20:49] <ubu-noob> But where do I go from here?
[20:50] <ubu-noob> What are the various things I can do with my system.
[20:50] <ubu-noob> I've read many Brainstorm ideas that suggest some kind of 'welcome tour' that greets new users after their install is complete.
[20:50] <SiDi> you're supposed to go watch whats on the menus, and begin using it :) the fact that there is nothing on the ubuntu desktop is a choice. It means : you've installed ubuntu, now you're free to use it the way you want and we wont bother you
[20:50] <SiDi> I think its not needed. The point of the liveCD is to let the user try before and during the install
[20:51] <SiDi> once it is physically installed they should already have clicked here and there and be at ease with the basics
[20:51] <SiDi> ideally
[20:51] <ubu-noob> Yes, I think that works well for you (an many others), but perhaps we need to consider the experiences of users who are not like us.  I think that is kind of what I'm getting at.
[20:51] <ubu-noob> I'm certainly not arguing here
[20:51] <ubu-noob> but in a spirit of kindness
[20:52] <GreySim> From what I understand, there's supposed to be some sort of slideshow that plays during installation in the next release.
[20:52] <ubu-noob> I'll just point out some words you're using
[20:52] <ubu-noob> "they should already have"
[20:52] <ubu-noob> it sounds like you are putting the blame on the new user for not being able to 'get up and run' after they have completed a new install
[20:52] <SiDi> should in the sense of "they should have had the occasion to have"
[20:52] <SiDi> its not in the sense of "its their fault if they didnt"
[20:53] <ubu-noob> Yes, I understand.
[20:53] <ubu-noob> I'm not saying you are wrong
[20:53] <ubu-noob> I'm just saying perhaps there are users out there who would greatly benefit from having additional help in this matter
[20:53] <ubu-noob> GreySim, thanks, I didn't know that.
[20:54] <ubu-noob> And my point is ... there are probably many areas
[20:54] <SiDi> ubu-noob: i agree that we could improve the "during install" part for those who dont feel like exploring
[20:54] <ubu-noob> in which (not only new users) - but users in general
[20:54] <GreySim> ubu-noob: There's talk about it on the Ubuntu Docs list, I don't know if there's some sort of web interface for that or not, but I imagine there would be.
[20:54] <GreySim> The slideshow, I mean.
[20:54] <SiDi> by providing documentation, a welcome tour bigger than the site's one, maybe other things
[20:54] <ubu-noob> are having an experience of Ubuntu which could be greatly improved, if we were only aware of the issues they are facin.g
[20:54] <SiDi> but i think users (current and most of new) would hate us for anything on the "default" desktop after install
[20:55] <SiDi> its their place, we shouldnt be intruding (does this word exist ? :p) into it
[20:55] <ubu-noob> I can appreciate that point of view
[20:55] <ubu-noob> however, isn'tt that an arguement to not change.
[20:56] <ubu-noob> I mean, why make any change to the system if you can argue those changes will upset some users.
[20:56] <ubu-noob> you know
[20:56] <ubu-noob> I think it's not about this particular point
[20:56] <ubu-noob> It's not about just the welcome slideshow
[20:56] <SiDi> As for feedback, i think the developers already have more than they can manage, so its important to focus on "high quality" feedback contacts, that will come to us and be ok with keeping discussing with us, instead of going to grab the users and ask them for their opinion (which would bother some, and which would gather more data than anyone can handle)
[20:56] <ubu-noob> it's about having people interested in, and askign those types of questions
[20:57] <ubu-noob> Thanks again GreySim.  Good info
[20:57] <SiDi> Well, i think we have quite a big community yet ;) I understand that you may want it to be bigger, but i think we should trigger interest if we want interested people, and not ask them to get involved without them to be motivated for it
[20:58] <ubu-noob> Sure, I'm not discussing issue of recruiting here, thought that is certainly valid.
[20:58] <SiDi> ubu-noob: if you have several ideas on how to improve user experience, it would be very nice from you to write on the ayatana mailing list about each of them (if possible in a separate email for each idea, unless they're linked)
[20:58] <SiDi> https://lists.launchpad.net/ayatana/
[20:58] <ubu-noob> Hmmm.
[20:59] <ubu-noob> Do I have to register?  How does it work?
[21:00] <SiDi> Do you have a launchpad account ?
[21:00] <ubu-noob> no
[21:00] <ubu-noob> So I should sign up for one?
[21:00] <SiDi> Alright, you should then create one :)
[21:00] <ubu-noob> Then I can post to thte list?
[21:00] <SiDi> yes
[21:01] <ubu-noob> cool
[21:01] <SiDi> once you have an account, go to https://launchpad.net/~ayatana/+join to can join the ayatana discussion team and subscribe to the list
[21:01] <ubu-noob> thanks
[21:01] <ubu-noob> tell me about ayatana
[21:01] <ubu-noob> I already knwo
[21:02] <GreySim> ubu-noob: Here is the first message about the slideshow: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-doc/2009-June/013200.html
[21:02] <ubu-noob> you're the ones behind the new notification system in Jaunty, (I'm assuming)
[21:02] <SiDi> then, just send emails to ayatana@lists.launchpad.net | be sure when you answer a mail on the list to check that the subject of your message is correct, and the recipient list includes this address
[21:02] <GreySim> The archive for the month, which includes more of the slideshow stuff; it looks like the thread splintered a bit somehow. https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-doc/2009-June/thread.html
[21:02] <SiDi> the Desktop Experience team in Canonical are behind notify-osd and indicator-applet, yes
[21:02] <GreySim> And the info to join if you'd like: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-doc
[21:02] <SiDi> I'm personally just a community member though :)
[21:03] <ubu-noob> Thanks GreySim
[21:03] <ubu-noob> what's a community memeber?
[21:04] <SiDi> It's an ubuntu user, like you and me, who decides to get involved on his own and to participate in general feedback / development / translations / documentation / artwork / anything else
[21:04] <SiDi> If you post to this list, you'll kind of be a community member too :)
[21:04] <ubu-noob> REading it now GreySim
[21:05] <ubu-noob> cool :-)
[21:05] <ubu-noob> @SiDi
[21:05] <ubu-noob> The slideshow sounds interesting, by the way
[21:06] <ubu-noob> So, who decided Ubuntu needed a new notification system, anyway?  Hadn't anyone heard of mummbles-project.org, a clone of apple's growl?
[21:06] <ubu-noob> -- not that I'm complaining
[21:06] <SiDi> What is apple growl ? 
[21:07] <ubu-noob> I'm just curious where the idea came from
[21:07] <ubu-noob> Yes growl
[21:07] <ubu-noob> Let me google it.
[21:07] <ubu-noob> here's one: http://watchingapple.com/2008/07/growl-works-great-for-system-notifications/
[21:08] <ubu-noob> here's mumbles: http://www.mumbles-project.org/
[21:08] <ubu-noob> I believe it works with or without a compositor
[21:09] <GreySim> From what I understand, Mumbles decided to invent their own thing instead of following the fd.o notification spec, though I could be mistaken. It's been a while since I looked at it.
[21:09] <ubu-noob> It's the first thing I thought of when I saw the vid on Mark S's blog about the new Jauntry notif system
[21:09] <SiDi> wow, it looks exactly like notify-osd Oo
[21:09] <GreySim> notify-osd and notification-daemon are interchangeable and follow a published specification.
[21:10] <GreySim> Growl has themes and can look like anything, but the default "Smoke" theme does look like notify-osd, yeah.
[21:10] <ubu-noob> Could they not have extended mumbles to send it's messges in a fd.o compliant way, though?
[21:10] <GreySim> Growl themes are just HTML/CSS.
[21:10] <ubu-noob> -- similar to Apple Dashboard widgets
[21:10] <ubu-noob> (minus the js)
[21:10] <GreySim> Yeah, which add JS. Growl may also use JS, but I'm not sure.
[21:11] <GreySim> Yeah.
[21:11] <ubu-noob> Great minds :-)
[21:11] <ubu-noob> ;-)
[21:12] <ubu-noob> And mumbles already has plugins: mumbles now has plugins for Gaim, Pidgin, Rhythmbox, Firefox*, Thunderbird*, and custom notifications.
[21:12] <ubu-noob> Is it worth taking a look at the mumbles code?
[21:13] <ubu-noob> Maybe it might save the notification-ocd guys some time and sweat
[21:14] <SiDi> ubu-noob: im tempted to say no :)
[21:14] <SiDi> plugins likely are compatibility plugins
[21:14] <GreySim> I don't think there's any particular benefit.
[21:14] <ubu-noob> ok
[21:15] <SiDi> mumbles doesnt seem to use the standard notification system, which every app can use independantly if which notification daemon is used
[21:15] <ubu-noob> got it
[21:15] <ubu-noob> So, there won't be too long to wait for firefox to use notifcation-osd
[21:15] <ubu-noob> ??
[21:16] <GreySim> Yeah, so if you don't like needing compositing for notify-osd, say, you could just use notification-daemon, and the notifications will all still work.
[21:16] <GreySim> Firefox can use it now, I think.
[21:16] <SiDi> err, ubu-noob thats really up to the mozilla foundation :)
[21:16] <GreySim> I can dig up a link, hold on please.
[21:16] <GreySim> You can get it through an extension.
[21:16] <SiDi> their code is crazy, and hard to maintain for third-persons. But i think there is a guy outside of their company working on it
[21:16] <ubu-noob> an add-on?
[21:17] <SiDi> GuyFromHell (he's likely in #exaile as we speak) coded such an add-on
[21:17] <GreySim> http://lifehacker.com/5271207/firefoxnotify-puts-download-notices-in-ubuntus-pop+ups
[21:17] <SiDi> but the actual way to do is to replace the app's osd by libnotify
[21:18] <ubu-noob> I'm reading http://www.mumbles-project.org/extras/
[21:18] <GreySim> I like this plugin more than OS X's built-in Growl support too, because it actually tells you WHICH file finished downloading. On Mac, Firefox just says "all downloads are complete."
[21:19] <ubu-noob> Firefox & Thunderbird Extensions The following are generic DBus notification extensions for Firefox and Thunderbird. Mumbles plugins have been created to listen for events sent by these extensions however, they are not limited to use by mumbles. They each send generic DBus signals (NewMail and DownloadComplete) on their respective events so other applications (an Awn plugin for example) could listen for these signals and react accordin
[21:20] <ubu-noob> So I guess DBus isn't generic enough?
[21:20] <ubu-noob> Also, from the LH page:
[21:20] <ubu-noob> One of the big disadvantages of the notification is that it is very difficult to do anything with them. For example once a download completes I can't click on the new notification to open the download folder. It looks pretty, but other than that not very functional.
[21:20] <ubu-noob> ""
[21:21] <SiDi> ubu-noob: its not about that
[21:21] <SiDi> there is a standard lib called libnotify, drafted by freedesktop.org
[21:21] <SiDi> used by gnome/kde/xfce, and used by almost every app (in the notable exception of firefox/thunderbird and a few others)
[21:22] <SiDi> and you can code your own libnotify server (notify-osd, notification-daemon, xfce4-notifyd, and others)
[21:22] <SiDi> mumbles defines its own protocol instead of respecting the current one
[21:22] <SiDi> this means no compatiblity, and a hell to maintain
[21:22] <ubu-noob> Aaaaa. I see
[21:23] <ubu-noob> Just curious.  Does notify-o use DBus?
[21:23] <SiDi> it uses libnotify :)
[21:23] <SiDi> which, i think, uses dbus
[21:23] <GreySim> Admittedly when they started Mumbles, notifications were still pretty new, notification-daemon sucked more, and notifications in general weren't necessarily "catching on" yet. It was a bit more of an 
[21:23] <GreySim> open market", so to speak.
[21:23] <SiDi> (but well, my bittorrent client too uses dbus :P)
[21:24] <ubu-noob> which client?
[21:24] <SiDi> one with 0 users :)
[21:24] <SiDi> (ok, actually two of the devs use it, so 2 users)
[21:25] <ubu-noob> As long as it has more than 0 trackers
[21:25] <ubu-noob> So, nobody answered my question
[21:26] <ubu-noob> Who decided what Ubuntu needed was a new notification system, in the first place?
[21:26] <GreySim> Not a new notification system. A new notification display.
[21:26] <ubu-noob> Yes
[21:26] <GreySim> Which is close to being the same thing, but not quite.
[21:26] <SiDi> clients dont have much to do with trackers :) and for who decided notify-osd, i'd answer : Canonical
[21:27] <ubu-noob> GS - yes.  Libnotify was already in existence.  I understand.  But to the average user, I don't "see" libnotify.  I "see" graphics come and go in a nice fade on the top right corner of my screen.
[21:27] <ubu-noob> Canonical
[21:28] <ubu-noob> Another question
[21:29] <ubu-noob> When I go to http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/download
[21:29] <ubu-noob> there is a requirement to chose a location
[21:29] <ubu-noob> but when I download firefox from the mozilla site
[21:29] <ubu-noob> it doesn't ask me that
[21:29] <ubu-noob> I just click and download
[21:29] <SiDi> ubu-noob: you come two days too late for that discussion :)
[21:29] <ubu-noob> how so?
[21:30] <SiDi> it was held at #ubuntu-website and the web presence team will work on improving this specific thing for karmic
[21:31] <ubu-noob> That's funny, because I posted it to Brainstorm so so so long ago: http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/11375/
[21:31] <GreySim> Oooh, a new place to lurk. Yay. :)
[21:32] <SiDi> ubu-noob: i must say that we dont read the WHOLE brainstorm thing :)
[21:32] <ubu-noob> Ha ha
[21:32] <ubu-noob> I don't expect it is even possible 
[21:33] <GreySim> ubu-noob: Have you looked at the actual slideshow yet? It's actually a bit better than I was expecting.
[21:33] <GreySim> If you use bzr already: bzr branch lp:ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu
[21:33] <ubu-noob> GS- lemme see.
[21:33] <GreySim> Then find and open Slideshow.html
[21:33] <ubu-noob> lemme se
[21:33] <SiDi> ubu-noob: type "Gr" and then Tab, to get his whole name written ;)
[21:34] <GreySim> I also answer to and have set highlights on "Sim"
[21:34] <ubu-noob> SiDi: wow, that works
[21:34] <ubu-noob> thanks :) SiDi
[21:35] <SiDi> ubu-noob: you're welcome
[21:35] <ubu-noob> still looking for the URL GreySim
[21:35] <GreySim> Which URL?
[21:35] <ubu-noob> for the slideshow
[21:35] <ubu-noob> slideshow.html
[21:36] <ubu-noob> I'm looking for something that starts with www. :-)
[21:36] <GreySim> You have to check out the code. I don't know if there's a way to do it without bzr or not, but if you install bzr, just run: bzr branch lp:ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu
[21:36] <ubu-noob> OK, now I'm a bit flustered
[21:37] <ubu-noob> Brainstorm = website to give ideas
[21:37] <ubu-noob> bzr = ???
[21:37] <GreySim> Sorry, my mistake.
[21:37] <SiDi> bzr is a distributed version control system
[21:37] <SiDi> I'm sure it helps :D
[21:37] <ubu-noob> cvs
[21:37] <ubu-noob> vcs
[21:37] <GreySim> Like cvs or svn, yes.
[21:37] <ubu-noob> OK
[21:38] <GreySim> If you're actually in Ubuntu right now, if you type "bzr" into a terminal, it should tell you which package you would need to install.
[21:38] <ubu-noob> So, I have to apt-get bzr, if I want to look at the slideshow.html ??
[21:38] <GreySim> Yes.
[21:38] <ubu-noob> Do you have bzr installed
[21:38] <ubu-noob> ?
[21:38] <GreySim> I do, yes.
[21:38] <ubu-noob> can you send it to me on pidgin (the html file?)
[21:38] <SiDi> how did you find us, by the way, ubu-noob ?
[21:39] <GreySim> It's multiple html files, but I can zip it up and put it in my Dropbox, I suppose.
[21:39] <SiDi> ubu-noob: https://launchpad.net/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/+download
[21:39] <GreySim> Or SiDi could do it the easy/smart way. :)
[21:39]  * SiDi hides
[21:40] <SiDi> i got so distracted i dont remember what i was coding on :/
[21:40] <ubu-noob> SiDi: I was wanting to express my ideas, and wrote the Ubuntu Community Council, and gave them my thoughts on how Ubuntu development would be improved if we could shift attention away from assembling, coding, building, and bring more focus to understanding we are creating end user experiences -- and become more focussed on building compelling user experiences first, and then implementing them in code, second.
[21:41] <ubu-noob> GreySim: if it's not too much to ask.
[21:41] <ubu-noob> But would that give me a simple url
[21:41] <ubu-noob> what I wouldn't have to register to anything in order to get
[21:41] <ubu-noob> ?
[21:41] <SiDi> http://launchpad.net/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/trunk/snapshot-june-11-2009/+download/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu-snapshot-june-11-2009.tar.gz
[21:42] <SiDi> lazy
[21:42] <ubu-noob> (really, there's not way to transfer files over IM on pidgin?)  I think I did it on ICQ years ago.
[21:42] <SiDi> there is a way to transfer files via IRC
[21:42] <SiDi> and to get bothered with its random failures
[21:42] <SiDi> the faster way is to click the above link
[21:42] <ubu-noob> I see
[21:43] <ubu-noob> I got it
[21:43] <ubu-noob> Thanks SiDi
[21:43] <GreySim> There is a way to transfer files, but I didn't want to open up IM, figure out which details to exchange, hope our networks didn't hate each other, etc.
[21:44] <ubu-noob> No worries GreySim, I just go the file from SiDi's url
[21:44] <SiDi> Did i win a cookie ?
[21:44] <ubu-noob> where is the emoticon for cookie?
[21:44] <ubu-noob> ()
[21:44] <ubu-noob> (;:)
[21:45] <ubu-noob> (8)
[21:45] <ubu-noob> (*)
[21:45] <ubu-noob> there!  a cookie with a single chocolate chip in the center
[21:46] <ubu-noob> So, let me see if there's an archive of the talk the website team had.
[21:46] <SiDi> there is one
[21:46] <SiDi> but im lazy now
[21:47] <ubu-noob> no worries
[21:47] <ubu-noob> besides, I think I can find it
[21:47] <SiDi> http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2009/06/11/%23ubuntu-website.html
[21:47] <ubu-noob> but first, I wanna look at the slideshow stuff you just sent
[21:47] <ubu-noob> not so lazy... after all
[21:47] <ubu-noob> :()
[21:48] <ubu-noob> :-D
[21:48] <ubu-noob> No more calling yourself lazy, OK.  You are finding urls faster than I can leap tall buildings in a single bound
[21:49] <SiDi> yeh but its because i had it in my mailbox
[21:49] <SiDi> :D
[21:50] <ubu-noob> that helps
[21:51] <ubu-noob> So, I'm looking at the slideshow stuff
[21:51] <ubu-noob> So, is this supposed to be showing on the background of the Ubiquity installer when it's installing your system?
[21:51] <GreySim> I think so.
[21:51] <ubu-noob> Well, maybe that's OK, but ...
[21:52] <ubu-noob> what if I want to pause it
[21:52] <ubu-noob> >
[21:52] <ubu-noob> ?
[21:52] <ubu-noob> or go back to the previous slide?
[21:53] <ubu-noob> or I want to remember a certain slide, so I can make use of that information after the install is complete?
[21:53] <ubu-noob> I mean, it's not a bad thing having 4 seconds of a reminder in the middle of a fresh install.
[21:54] <GreySim> Have you read the entire thread about it on Ubuntu Docs? If nobody has brought that up, maybe you should.
[21:54] <GreySim> I haven't read the entire thread yet, so I'm not sure myself.
[21:54] <ubu-noob> But is that enough for me to take full advantage of that information once the install is done and I'm left (all alone) at the blank desktop staring back at me?
[21:54] <ubu-noob> GreySim: hmmm
[21:55] <GreySim> Maybe it should be linked somehow from the System -> Help menu thing, or wherever the help is.
[21:56] <ubu-noob> GreySim: you mean that question mark in the panel?
[21:56] <SiDi> ubu-noob: you shouldnt consider what you see as an achieved work but as work in progress
[21:56] <ubu-noob> SiDi: got it.  I'm still trying to find the url for it on Ubuntu Docs
[21:57] <ubu-noob> does the project have an official name?
[21:57] <SiDi> ubiquity-slideshow ?
[21:57] <SiDi> ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu actually
[21:57] <SiDi> join #ubuntu-doc (or docs ?)
[21:58] <ubu-noob> it's just searching https://help.ubuntu.com
[21:58] <ubu-noob> I'm just searching ..
[21:59] <ubu-noob> just joined #ubuntu-doc
[21:59] <GreySim> What are you looking for, exactly?
[22:00] <ubu-noob> GreySim: the discussion logs for the ubiquity slideshow idea, to read if anyone has 
[22:00] <ubu-noob> asked the questions I'm asking
[22:01] <ubu-noob> - er, discussed those issues
[22:03] <ubu-noob> "Whether you want to change the theme, font, mouse cursor or more, Ubuntu has all the necessary tools installed and ready for you to use. The arrangement, appearance and settings of your desktop are only a short click away..."
[22:03] <ubu-noob> But it doesn't even tell you *where* you need to click, or even which Menu entry it is in.
[22:03] <GreySim> It's the mailing list links I listed above.
[22:04]  * GreySim wishes mailing lists were more like Google groups, where you don't actually have to use a horrid web archive to read, or just email to post.
[22:04] <GreySim> But those who still wanted to interact through email could.
[22:04] <SiDi> GreySim: then it'd be slow to browse for my low bandwidth :)
[22:04] <ubu-noob> You've lost me
[22:04] <SiDi> ubu-noob: the goal is to make the menus logical enough for the user to figure out on his own
[22:05] <SiDi> without us to turn him/her into the average assisted windows user
[22:06] <ubu-noob> GreySim: what did you mean about mailing lists?
[22:06] <ubu-noob> I'm looking at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2009/06/11/%23ubuntu-website.html
[22:06] <ubu-noob> but so far no slideshow talk at all
[22:07] <GreySim> The initial discussion starts here: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-doc/2009-June/013200.html
[22:07] <GreySim> You can see all the messages related to the thread on this page: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-doc/2009-June/thread.html
[22:08] <GreySim> And if you want to participate in the discussions, you need to follow the directions on this page: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-doc
[22:08] <ubu-noob> I did find my brainstorm url on today's log!  Yippie!  http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2009/06/13/%23ubuntu-website.html
[22:08] <ubu-noob> How did it get there?
[22:09] <GreySim> I'm not sure how you would reply to the existing messages in a proper fashion though, since you weren't already subscribed beforehand. And that's what else I was talking about just now, is how unnecessarily complex and over-geeky mailing lists are.
[22:10] <ubu-noob> Still, how do I participate in the discussion, otherwise.  Do I need to register first to launchpad, then post to those pages?
[22:10] <ubu-noob> er. lists
[22:11] <ubu-noob> One second... need to get power cord before lappy dies.
[22:12] <GreySim> You need to subscribe to the mailing list using the last link I gave you, to get started. But to participate in the discussion, I'm not sure how you would go about it, because the only way I know how requires you to have received a related message already, then you reply to that.
[22:12] <GreySim> So I'm not sure how you would "properly" join the conversation.
[22:12] <ubu-noob> I'm back
[22:12] <ubu-noob> Oh, I see
[22:13] <ubu-noob> That's terribly inconvenient
[22:13] <ubu-noob> Can't I start a new thread, or is that improper?
[22:14] <ubu-noob> SiDi: sorry to keep you waiting
[22:14] <GreySim> I'm not sure.
[22:14] <ubu-noob> What's the harm in trying?
[22:14] <GreySim> I don't participate on mailing lists for the most part. I'm only subscribed to that one to listen for things like calls for proofreading.
[22:15] <macvr> ubu-noob: u sure can start new topics
[22:16]  * SiDi is actually back to his code.
[22:18] <ubu-noob> oh, Sidi, don't go~~~
[22:18] <ubu-noob> !!
[22:18] <ubu-noob> (but I understand if you must)
[22:18] <SiDi> im not going
[22:18] <SiDi> just busy :)
[22:19] <ubu-noob> but still open to talk, or no?
[22:19] <SiDi> yeh, but just dont highlight my name ten times in a row :)
[22:19] <GreySim> Likewise, sorta. Just finished breakfast, so now I'm about to start working on projects and will probably only check IRC occasionally.
[22:20] <ubu-noob> GreySim: got it.  Where is it breakfast time now? Australia?
[22:20] <ubu-noob> New Zealand?
[22:21] <ubu-noob> SiDi: got it.
[22:21] <GreySim> West coast US, but I keep a late schedule.
[22:22] <ubu-noob> Well, I just want to thank both of you guys.  
[22:22] <GreySim> GF's also sick and I was waiting for her to be awake so I could cook for us both.
[22:22] <ubu-noob> GreySim: hope GF is feeling better.  Soup is always good.
[22:23] <GreySim> Thanks.
[22:23] <SiDi> ubu-noob: you're welcome.
[22:31] <ubu-noob> I'm talking with someone on #ubuntu-docs, seeing about  how to share my slideshow thoughts
[22:35] <ubu-noob> By the way, I'm guessing if I want to save this discussion (in pidgin) I just Conversation  > Save as, right?
[22:35] <SiDi> Dont know
[22:35] <SiDi> i use mibbit
[22:39] <ubu-noob> Well, here goes nothing...
[22:41] <ubu-noob> Yay!  Not only did it work, it outputs an html file, comlete with all the urls properly linked.  Nice job Pidjgin team.
[22:42] <SiDi> mine doesnt log :p
[22:45] <GreySim> It can, sorta, somehow.
[22:45] <GreySim> They might have removed it though.
[22:45] <GreySim> But at one point I joined a channel, and I had a log of all the recent conversation that had been happening.
[22:46] <GreySim> Another Mibbit user may have been there, as I set up a Mibbit widget to connect to that channel.
[22:47] <ubu-noob> Well, I was talking in #ubuntu-doc, and they pretty much said I can join the mailing list (https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-doc) and post a new thread, or possibly reply to an existing one.
[22:47] <ubu-noob> "﻿ In-Reply-To: header, if you can get the message ID of the previous one.  Also, just the subject stuff"
[22:48] <ubu-noob> But I'll probably just start a new thread anyway